jajay119
jajay119
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I think DBD has a concurrent install base of consistent users; updates, events, sales and new chapters probably give a small boost which then tapers back off and looks like a loss.
I've been seeing comments of a declining install base which will kill the game for about two years now; we are still here.
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I'll give the killer the hatch and a mercy kill if I think they've been screwed over by a map or other survivors and played well.
The other day I was against a pig who had a set of really poor survivors, in that they had bad attitudes, but she didn't resort to camping and tunnelling and Still played fairly imo. She had chased me but gave up when I looped her a bit so I thought she deserved at least 1k.
Today I tried to give a Trickster, who themselves was letting me go, hatch but they wanted me to take it.
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Imo its hard to include Jason at this point and keep him entirely fresh as lots of things you could do with him have been done by other killers - particularly trapper who afaik is inspired by jason.
The Friday the 13th game Gun Media made pretty much has a range of abilities BHVR could repurpose as perks. I don't know if they would be able to do that though and other killers have perks which are similar.
Stalk to increase rage (more effective instant attacks) - The Shape and Ghostface both have thus.
Morph - travel a short distance to head off campers - The Onryo already has this.
set traps for campers - trapper and Hag have similar perks.
Teleport round the map - well loads of killers have this and we don't need another.
Throwing knives: The trickster has this.
The only one left is sense: this let's Jason see highlighted buildings when someone is making a conspicuous action in them. I guess this could work by Jason getting an indicators of a general area where Survivors are running/repairing etc in the vein of a heat pulse that covers a large area.
....
To keep it inspired by common themes of the movies but try and be fresh I'd go with something along the lines of...
'Mother's Guidance' -
Wherever Jason goes, Pamela is never far behind to help her son.
You start the trial with three tokens. Recieve an audio notification frok Pamela when within 25/20/15 of a hiding survivor. Or when surviors are in the Shack/main building. Consumes a token on use.
'Crystal Clear' -
Spending years in the shadows of Camp Crystal Lake has taught you a thing or two about getting around quickly and quietly to hunt your victims. Select 3/4/5 locations around the map and cycle through them appearing to any nearby survivors momentarily. Any survivors within 5/10/15 metres of Jason when he appears will scream and reveal their location.
The perk deactivates if Jason chooses to leave his teleport spot to enter chase and has a cool down of 60 seconds.
'Lights out' -
years of hunting campers has taught you how effective darkness can be at hindering and confusing an increasingly confident foe.
When there are 4 or less fully repaired generators, Gain the ability to damage one fully repaired generator. Damaging the generator will stop the generator from powering the doors and generate a special tool box survivors will need to find and collect (similar to Pinhead's box) to repair the broken generator from 90/85/80% to 100%.
This perk does not stack with other regression or slowdown perks.
The perk deactivates for the remainder of the trial when used.
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There is nearly no more depressing thing than playing against plague, with the possible exception of Legion, so... checkmate.
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I'm running fogwise at the moment: on one hand I'm getting absolutely no use out of it because I seem to be getting mainly stealth killers... on the other hand, I know it's a stealth killer pretty quick lol.
To be fair, I really enjoy going against Michael, GF and Pig. I think the heightened level of attention you need to pay to make up for no TR really adds to the game.
Wraith and Sprit not so much.
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Personally I'd rather see the bloodweb replaced entirely. The mobile version of the game doesn't have it; they have the blood market and it works much better imo.
However, if they're never going to get rid of it there definitely needs to be a level of automation i.e. if you havent chosen to purchase a specific node you can hold a button to unlock the entire web at random.
Most of the time I'm not bothered what I'm buying unless I'm looking for a specific perk to level up.
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Whilst I do think it's fair to say the current regression meta needs some tweaking, everyone is carried by one perk or other.
As survivor mains, we need to remember that the killer IS meant to be the power role and it's a 4vs1 for them. Whilst it may seen annoying that you don't escape as often as you'd like - it must be kept in mind you're one of four people and some of those will invariably escape. Success stats are based, I'm sure, on 2 escapes and 2 kills per match.
The amount of times I see a killer get a 4k is increasing, largely due to regression perks and I'm sure that will be addressed - but I think survivors will always be designed to be in the weaker role (SWF not included because it's essentially not representative of the game design).
If you're not escaping as much as you'd like I'd recommend you try changing up your approach and your perks. I used to be quite a stealthy killer and run Built to Last, Lucky Break, Quick and Quiet and one other perk in rotation) but in recent months I've really tried to change my approach and improve my looping. As such, I've been running Windows, Lithe (also part of the survivor meta) and two other perks - currently Fogwise and Potential Energy (as I've recently unlocked Vittorio) but I'm finding that I'm escaping more frequently than before.
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The license was up... but imo it was also a lot more insidious than that.
Netflix decided they were getting into gaming themselves and wanted ST just for them to pull people into their platform.
This was the result...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrqMPQPjGJkIt's not a coincidence to me that ST disappeared from DBD when they were launching their game division. Netflix Games launched on 3rd Nov 2021 and ST left DBD on 17th Nov 2021. The other two mobile ST games were also removed from the Playstore and Apple play to be on Netflix exclusively when the service launched, so it's clearly about holding the IP in monopoly.
I don't see how their characters still being in DBD which would have still given them money would have detracted form this given they're focusing on mobile games.
Overall, I wouldn't be surprised if the venture wasn't the lucrative gold mine they wanted it to be and so are considering moving back to third party licensing.
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@HugTheHag said:
Buff unused perks, balance some maps. Fix some hitboxes, give some love to lower tier killers. =)
Honestly, why is Slippery Meat even still in the game? Who is using that when Deliverance is in the game?
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It's really common for seasonal cosmetics to be removed from online games. Fallout and Elder Scroll's festive content disappeared on the 3rd of the Month. They're a novelty to celebrate a special time.
I don't understand why some people here are getting so butthurt about it.
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^Exactly. I think we just have different impressions about how the perk works to OP.
But, memorising the map, as the OP seems to want, is both impossible and pointless in any match. Yes, there is some commonality between maps, but they do also have an element of random generation to them too. A palate location in one place on one variation of the map will be in a another place on a different variation.
However, I KNOW as an experienced played roughly where a palate or window should be. WoO just confirms it for me so I don't go to a loop I think I can use, only to realise I cannot - but I still have to be aware roughly of where those loops are when planning my movement from one tile to another as a survivor.
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Legion deserves the top spot.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316568#Comment_3316568
That doesn't makes sense as normally it would be purely coincidental, when you can see their aura you are just in an angle where the gen aura is hiding them. And even if you where right, then what is the point of revealing the aura if they can hide it for free if they are in the right spot?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316540#Comment_3316540
The visual cues should be reduced in size in general, for everybody. I don't know how many times I couldn't see where the survivors go when unhooking or a gen is completed because of the damn "magnifying glass" as you call it. But I agree, the auras revealed, specially those of the survivors and killer, should be drawn on top of everything else.
Apologies, but I don't know if there is a proper name for the 'magifying glass' effect and that's just what it looks like to me, so I went with that haha.
I don't even know why it's in the game - it's not as if you can't see someone being hooked and when the game first launched the aura of the body on the hook was just bigger. Imo it looked better. in fact being able to counter Pain. Res's scream effect counts on you being observant of the aura before it's hooked.
Auras are there to be visible, so they should be on both sides.
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@DesertYoshi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316544#Comment_3316544
Despite what you say, Sadako is weak. There's a reason everyone places her low on Tier lists. I think the theory Otzdarva had is fair. At low MMR, she's a stealth killer with strong perks. At high MMR, it's more likely that Sadako is using the Forced Condemnation playstyle.
I'm tired of the Forced Condemnation playstyle. I want it gone if heavily nerfed. I want other playstyles encouraged.
Despite what you say, she isn't weak. Just because you are tired of a playstyle it doesn't mean it's a bad or makes her a weak killer. The fact that people change her playstyle drastically to cope with the top 5% MMR without resorting to 'we have to camp and tunnel to win at high MMR' with only a 2% loss in win rate from the overall MMR measurement is testament to her not being weak at all Her stats speak for themselves - whichever way you want to twist them.
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I personally chose to prioritise current maps. We are at a weird period at the moment where some maps have been re-designed and some haven't. Badham, for example, is very visually out of sync with other urban maps and is still very survivor sided (so I'm told). I'd much rather see a period of time this year where BHVR look at current map issues and create better varieties of existing maps than try and push out more new content.
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There are enough killers that negate palates (Nurse, Legion, Plague, Huntress, Nemesis, Wesker, Knight, Artist, Dredge and now Knight all have anti-looping built into their powers) at this point, we don't need more of them. Onryo already has her teleport power for map pressure and phasing for a speed and stealth pressure- killers shouldn't have a counter to everything on the map, in my opinion.
Her data given by BHVR puts her at above killer average kill rate at normal MMR and within the killer average at high MMR. I don't think she will get (or needs) a buff.
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Ok, if we can have killer auras visible in the 'magnifying glass' effect that is present when someone is hooked - half the time it makes running kindred pointless because by the time the Magnifier effect is gone and no longer obscuring the killer they've left the effect radius and you didn't see in which direction they went which is a vital part of the perk .
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@Dream_Whisper said:
I am talking about Off the Record and Basekit BT, for example; and how many Survivors would proclaim that "the killer is tunneling" even though they literally are bodyblocking the killer from chasing another survivor (the Rescuer) from taking any hits and tank a hit for them. It forces the killer to straight up tunnel, as well... what can you do if they are bodyblocking a doorway of killer shack in case of unhooking in the Basement for example.
My Proposal Changes is to make the Endurance status effect have a additional effect of not just Endurance so that killer can hit them; but also just straight up remove collision with the killer model. That way, they cannot protect their teammates this way, and need to flee. And no, a Survivor can lose Collison with killers but should not lose Collison with another Survivor so they cannot go right through them and unintentionally tank the hits that way.
I think it would help with the whole, "I want to kill this other Survivors, but hooked survivor is being a pushover and getting in my way for a easy down!" Mentality.
If the killer was originally going to go for the person who got you off the hook, then that's clearly not tunneling.
If a survivor chooses to use their endurance status effect to protect their team mate, especially if they're injured, then that's a valid tactic. However, the consequence is that the killer may choose to come after the unhooked one, rather than the team mate they protected after whom they originally were going to target, as the unhooked survivor is now the more advantageous person to target. You're also a one hit down, but you will possibly be further along the sacrifice process if you've been hooked more than the rescuer. That's still not tunneling as you chose, as a survivor, to put yourself into the firing line. You can't expect to put yourself in the killer's line of fire and they just ignore you. Anyone who calls that tunneling needs to address the definition of the word and their tactics of play because it's clearly not working for them. Similarly, if a survivor chooses to take a protection hit that doesn't stop the killer ignoring them thereafter and going after someone else. I don't think any survivor is getting the way for an easy down though, rather they're getting in the way because they know they won't get downed unless the killer commits.
Also, whilst I respect you trying to propose a useful change to reduce genuine tunneling any killer who genuinely wants to tunnel will still do so. Due to the killers naturally higher speed than survivors, unless they manage to get to a fortunate loop that killers don't want to commit to, they'll just chase them until the endurance effect wears off much as they do now despite it being buffed.
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@Bran said:
I don't see the point. Iron maiden does exactly what it needs to do.
Let's killers open lockers faster, either to reload or to check it.
Gives a notification that a survivor exists a locker and exposes them.
This in my opinion is pretty good for a baseline perk and your rework could be changed into its own.
I'm really confused, because imo this is the main point of the perk - it's to counter people hiding from BBQ and using locker based perks. I'm not really sure what the OP is trying to get at.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316366#Comment_3316366
Me? Outside condemned she's pathetic and there are so so many minor buffs you could easily give her that'd bump her up a tier.
Except most people that use her go down the condemned playstyle and it's effective as hell. As of the September 2022 data from BHVR themselves...
@McDoobz said:
In June, we brought major changes to the game. At the time, we stated that one of the main objectives behind the meta-shifting perk overhaul and base gameplay changes was to improve the overall kill rate (how many Survivors are killed each trial, on average). As stated in our most recent stats post , we did achieve that goal and as you’ll see in the below graphs, the kill rate continues to hover around the 59% to 61% range (up from a 51% to 53% range).
In the context of this new meta, many of you have been expressing that you’d like to see where each killer’s kill rate now stands. So, we’ve compiled the most recent data to share with you.
We’ve created two charts to help you visualize and analyze these stats:
- The first chart represents the kill rate broken down by killer, for all players (all Matchmaking Ratings), for the period of September 2022.
- The second chart also represents the kill rate broken down by killer for the same period, but only for players in the top 5% MMR.
Some things to keep in mind as you consult these charts:
- We rounded up some of the kill rates to make the charts below easier to read (only values ≥ 0.95 were rounded up). Scroll past the charts for exact kill rate values for each data set.
- It’s worth noting that many factors are taken into account when it comes to balancing killer powers and character perks, not only data.
- As always, we are monitoring our overall game balance on an ongoing basis and taking your feedback into account when evaluating whether or not design changes should be made. So please keep sharing your thoughts and experiences with us! We read you daily and relay your feedback to the appropriate people on a regular basis.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GOYEKDMA1XC3/microsoftteams-image-2873-29.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QBAVCNOU4QO5/microsoftteams-image-2875-29.png
EXACT KILL RATE & PICK RATE VALUES BY MMR
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LRXX3PMFOM90/tablekr3.png
We hope you enjoy studying these numbers as much as we do!
Until next time...
The Dead by Daylight team
...which came out before this play style even really took off she had a 63% kill rate in all MMR measurement, putting her in the top band (equal to Wesker and Cenobite), and at the top 5% MMR (before anyone tries the 'low MMR players buff the scores excuse) she had a kill rate of 61% putting her in the fourth band from the top (equal to Oni, Blight, Spirit, Cenobite, and only bettered by Wesker, Dredge (possibly explained by their high pick rate at the time due to being the newer killers) and Plague.
Either way she is above average or average kill rate for killers across the board; whether battling baby survivors or experienced ones. Even if you go off unofficial sources, eg. Nighlight which uses data from thousands of crowd sourced matches, for the period of 11/12/22 to 10/01/23 she has a win rate of 58.64% which is one of the highest kill rates on a parr with Nurse (let that sink in) despite a lower pick rate compared to others.
Kill and Pick rates for Dead by Daylight Killers based on thousands of crowd sourced matchesImplying she is picked less but those that do pick her are good at playing her. She is a high skill killer in that she takes time and effort to learn how to use properly, but she has a high payoff when she does. The same is true with Freddy who also has a high kill rate. People just can't be bothered to learn how to use them properly and want them to be another 'hold W, slug and camp' killer but they're not.
She doesn't need a buff, the evidence supports it - whether you agree with the facts above presented or not doesn't really matter (as I'm sure someone is going to try and explain why it insn't accurate or valid). It's BHVR's data and that's what they'll use to measure need for change.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315984#Comment_3315984
As the other person said
Terror radiuses everywhere which make it more difficult to pinpoint the killers location and work with perks/powers and as a protection for your other hex perks as they will come back.
Oh sorry my eyes completely overlooked the word terror and just saw radius..
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@FeryGEN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315989#Comment_3315989
Last time I heard 1,2,3 - buffed bleeding. If the survivors know everything, then why do they need this perk? They just don't understand that after destroying all the pallets, they die with the team, they wasted time with the pallets, ok, what will the rest of the team do if they can't use the pallets anymore? They need to learn how to use at least one pallet.
Why do they need this perk?
Already answered. It helps you to see what is available instead of guessing and hoping - it enhances skills you already have which is what a perk is meant to do.
What's the rest of the team supposed to do if they can't use palates anymore?
Gens. Which if someone is looping effectively enough to use every palate on the map you should be more than capable of doing. Also, mind gaming, Windows, stealth and other perks to give advantages I.e sprint burst, lithe, dead hard, unbreakable, boil over etc. Also let's not pretend that everyone who runs WoO Will instantly pull the palate, because they don't.
Still no reason for a nerf.
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Firstly, I don't understand why the appraisal thing is valid supporting evidence to nerf WoO . Let alone one that makes it 'irrefutable'.
Secondly, WoO is not about not studying maps - everyone knows there is often a palate in a cluster of walls or roughly where a window will be, but rather knowing what is there to use and what isn't at a distance and chaining useful tiles together to take up as much of the killer's time as possible while gens are being done.
This is still entirely possible without the perk and good loopers do not even need it. Contrary to your statement that you don't need to mindgame with it I would completely disagree and say unless you can effectively mind-game the killer it's can be a completely wasted perk slot. Mind gaming isn't about knowing where a palate is; it's about keeping the killer in an appropriate place so they cannot hit you and some killers are excellent at negating this whether you have WoO or not. In fact, I would say sometimes survivors can be so focused on their goal it makes it very easy for the killer to telegraph what they're going to do and make it work in their favour. Most killers don't even bother to break palates anymore which goes to show how impactful WoO actually is. (Edit: Also, not be disrespectful, but if your games genuinely are consistently like the image above then perhaps you need to work on impriving your killer mind game)
But my main point is... WoO is principally used to waste your time - if it's boring for you then it's achieved it's goal. If you don't enjoy the chase then don't commit to it and go and pressure gens or down survivors who cannot loop as well.
Thirdly , "yes I win" is pretty much a iron clad reason refute your call of an ner . "I win, but not quick enough" isn't a valid reason to nerf perks.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Hex: Omnipresence
Everytime you damage a survivor for the first time gain a token
Upon reaching 4 tokens Hex: Omnipresence activates
All remaining dull totems on the map turn into hex totems
All hex totems have a 24/28/32m terror radius
When all totems that were changed by Hex: Omnipresence are cleansed the effect ends, any other totem that were cleansed while Hex:Omnipresence was active reignite
What is the actual effect? You seem to have missed it out
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Every time this comes up I will use the same perk because it's something I want to see.
Catch Me If You Can
After performing a rushed action or stunning the killer by any means, Catch Me If You Can activates.
For the next 3 seconds, any Scratch Marks and Pools of Blood will spawn in the opposite direction as to where you ran, relative to the location of the perk's activation.
Catch Me If You Can has a cooldown of 50/45/40 seconds.
I had a perk idea similar to this which I called Running Interference
For every time you stun the killer, gain a token. You can gain up to three tokens per trial.
Whilst in the killer's terror radius, but not in their line of sight, press the secondary ability button to send a line of hatch-marks visible to you and the killer in the direction you are facing.
When Running Interference activates, You do not leave hatchmarks or pools of blood for the next 1/2/3 seconds.
Running interference consumes one token on use, up to three tokens per trial after which it deactivates.
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I must be really lucky because I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been tunneled in recent memory on one hand, and I'm a survivor main.
I wouldn't even class myself as an amazing survivor because I don't' play the game intensively enough to be; but I have a good level of awareness to try and observe the killer coming and evade them or pre-empt what they're and I've tried to improve my looping in recent months and I've noticed that more often killers will leave me as soon as they see I know how to moderately loop.
I'm honestly increasingly convinced that people who moan about experiencing tunneling so excessively just aren't as good players as they think they are - I've certainly had this reinforced to me whilst watching some streamers who make absolutely abysmal choices then blame everyone else for them.
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@notclaudette said:
The self recovery is meant to make it possible to revive someone with a bit of distance in a chase, because if your the last two thats a necessity. If 4 survivors are still up, how is it fair that they can be instaresed by a teammate while I go to check a gen or scare a way a flashlight? just dont like this. make so as long as there are 2 healthy survivors up you cant res, because you dont need to and it only serves to make slugging useless.
If the survivor is downed... progress the game and hook them. Problem solved.
Running round and slugging multiple people and leaving them down is, in my opinion, really poor form.
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@camping_site said:
Here is an idea for the next discussion- a killer perk that makes a survivor start the trial on the hook. It could be named - Devour My *ss.
Hex: Devour My *ss, surely?
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@Magic_0ne said:
So my experience with randoms
- They suicide on first hook because it's a killer they don't like
- They suicide on first hook because they went down first
- They suicide on first hook because the Ace didn't heal them
- They suicide on first ho-
You see the problem? I'm tired of people basically disconnecting without suffering the dc penalty. Basically instead of disconnected they just die on purpose. Obviously they could still do this but make it so I can at least unhook them before they do. I want to either force them to DC because they're impatient or spend more time in the match so they ruin the game for less people. Idk...if anyone has any ideas on how to solve this issue pls feel free to share.
One problem is "attempt escape" otherwise known as a "kobe" or "4%ing" etc. The issue is if you remove it entirely it's a nerf and honestly those 4% moments can be pretty cool. I don't really think it needs to be removed because people are bad sports. Balance wise it's not a big concern. The other way you could go about it is you could make it so you have 3 attempts max but it doesn't reduce your hook timer or only reduces it by 10s each time (currently reduces it by 20s). However this could be seen as a buff and now attempting no longer has the risk that comes with it. Basically it's a gamble. So I'm curious on what people think can be done about the suiciding on hook crap because...it's getting really bad and SUPER annoying to play with randoms. Heck even as a killer I'm like "aww c'mon man now I feel bad :/" and then give hatch if it comes down to it.
Like if there was a way to check if someone died on purpose and give them a dc penalty but it might be down to hatch and they're just trying to get hatch to spawn so the last person has a chance. So even that's not going to work. Having a report specific option would get abused as well.
Idk at the very least I think you shouldn't be able to suicide on struggle phase unless only one person is left that isn't hooked or dying. (So you can still die so hatch can spawn)
Nothing will be done about it because all of the above are valid and legal uses of the hook. They fall under the 'selfish' part of BHVR's mentality of 'Survivors can play as altruistically or selfishly as they like'. Yes it's annoying, but at the end of the day it progresses the game and the killer gets BP for the kill which a DC denies them and that's why there is no DC penalty.
Just as killers can go around slugging people and leaving them for minutes at a time, or camping and tunneling are valid strategies for killers; are they annoying for survivors? Sure, but they are what they are.
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Why would you want it? It just gets abused by people being abusive and salty. At least if they want to do that via PM they it takes more effort and you can block people.
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I've only ever encountered one outright hacker. I have noticed the odd occasion on both sides though where people just seem too fast for it to be natural.
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As a survivor main, I honestly never got the love for Sprint Burst. I prefer Lithe.
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The borgo has good solid loops? Can someone show me where please?
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@Seraphor said:
I do miss the darker Coldwind.
I really don't know why maps are so light and sparse now. I know the 'stealth' aspect is downplayed, but having bushes wouldn't hurt with how prevalent auras are.
I'd honestly take buffed auras and scratch marks if we could go back to this atmosphere.
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Watching videos like this makes me sad. Honestly, the visual upgrades they've done in recent years have not been for the better at all.
The maps back then were so much more atmospheric; Coldwind in particular looked amazing - The flood lights, the barrels of fire giving off amazing light and atmosphere in the fog (which is not even present anymore). I cannot fathom why they changed the maps to daytime. The game is called Dead by DAYLIGHT. It doesn't even make sense to have daytime maps.
The generators actually having lights too was way nicer in it's effect - all this stuff has just been removed for 'prettier' textures that really haven't added anything to the game but taken a lot away.
I really want BHVR to look at how visually stunning these early maps were and reintegrate stuff back into the game.
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"I use these perks to ensure I can camp and tunnel but something has to be done to stop me using these perks to camp and tunnel."
That was a wild ride.
Personally, I'm not encountering many PH's and not much camping and tunneling, but then I don't particulary worry about levels, pips or high MMR etc. So maybe I'm just outside the realm of where this happens. I guess if someone who actively uses this build thinks it's too powerful, it is, though.
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I don't agree with a lot of this.
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@Omans said:
Eruption will one hundred percent, absolutely, be nerfed. As it should be. Quote me on that. And it is as clear as day why it needs to be nerfed.
Anyone who tells you Eruption is fine for game health is either lying or is completely oblivious to what is good for game balance.
It is as simple as that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312881#Comment_3312881
So incredibly wrong.
illNicola: Isn't a problem at all, doesn't need a nerf....
also illNicola: ... can potentially be lethal.
We're supposed to take that seriously?
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312600#Comment_3312600
Twenty Five Seconds.
Even if you assume a 1-4 time conversion for killer (which is only situationally true) nothing incapacitates a killer for 7 whole seconds. Every hyperbolic example you gave is less than 5 seconds, some of them as little as 2 seconds.
Ultimately the main issues are:
- It always triggers against soloq and rarely triggers against SWF. This makes is unfairly disproportionate against a certain class of survivor, and in a way that killers should have a problem with. Why would you want your best perks to be ineffective against SWF??
- It inflicts 40 seconds of equivalent regression, on a 30 second cooldown. Which means when used efficiently, it makes it impossible for survivors to gain any ground against it.
I'd also like to point out that Eruption locking the gen for 25 seconds can guarantee a loss of anywhere between 25% and 50% if coupled with optimal perks - e.g.
Eruption - 10% instantly, Pain Res - 15% instantly (on one gen only), Call of Brine + Overcharge combined contributes guaranteed -25% at least (the time it take incapacitated to wear off) and 30% at worst (when the combination loses this level of efficiency and if the gen hasn't been tapped).
So in 25 seconds it takes for Eruption to deactivate this provides a guaranteed loss, with this build, of 50%. If you try to tap the gen and miss the Overcharge skill check that's an additional instant 5% loss - so 55% total.
The CoB+Overcharge combination will then continue to regress whatever is left at 275% for another thirty seconds. Whilst by this time the direct effect of Eruption has worn off the survivors working on it may have found a new gen, be downed, be unhooking/healing, be in chase or the killer may have had time to come back and kick it to ready the whole process again.
Like I've said above, it isn't Eruption alone that's the issue - Just as Dead Man's Switch isn't an issue and does a very similar job, for longer, but the snowball effect the incapacitated effect can and does cause at the moment.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312881#Comment_3312881
Eh...
I don't think this holds either.
On one hand, I really don't want to see a perk that is fundamentally fine against SWF to be nerfed for the sake of solos.
On the other hand, this is really annoying to face for solos because there isn't any reliable way to counter it. Oh, you can try to guess and be observant about which gens have been kicked and when someone is going to go down, but then it becomes a choice between 'stand around doing nothing' and 'stand around doing nothing while the gen regresses'.
Make it block gens rather than incap, call it a day.
But we'll see what happens with the new icons as that will definitely help.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312887#Comment_3312887
Eruption is one of those perks that I...actually don't run much, as it's basically a 'win more' perk. It tends to turn games you were already going to win into miserable stomps from the other end, but won't do much to turn a game you are losing around.
I will also admit that I'm a touch biased here, as I'm sick and tired of literally 'whatever the current killer meta is, is overpowered and must be complained about incessantly until we get it nerfed' mindset that seems to exist on these forums.
But...again, there is a middle ground here, i.e. changing the incap to a block so people can do bones, heal etc. If the forums are actually being honest (har) then it's more about Eruption being annoying than being overpowered.
Oh absolutely, I am fully ready to admit that my main gripe with eruption is that it's annoying - or rather, it can be a touch too oppressive is how I really feel.
But, I do think that can be considered as a valid reason for change - the perk can still be made effective for killers whilst not being an absolute annoyance too.
The problem is, many here who favour the killer experience take issue with things having counter play. But, to be fair to both sides i think it needs it - all other strong perks do; Pain Res - let go of the gen as soon as you see the red silhouette start to be hooked, Call of Brine/Overcharge - tap the gen. Sometimes these things cannot happen because the killer is so effectively controlling the environment but that's just how it goes. But providing an element of counterplay is key to finding balance imo.
Perhaps if Eruption wasn't so prevalent, then it would be less of an issue. But unfortunately, it's extremely prevalent and being used with perks that exacerbate it's negative perception.
The ironic thing is - Call of Brine and Overcharge are way more effective than Eruption is at making gens more difficult to do - but no one seems to be bothered about those with Eruption taking the flack and I think it being a strong intensifier to an already strong situation is definitively the reason.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312844#Comment_3312844
Here's the thing though.
Regression perks were, for the most part, nerfed across the board and 10 seconds were added on to gens.
However, BHVR than buffed some faster gen perks out the wazoo, left some stronger ones untouched and added more perks along these lines - meaning that, in a SWF, you can do gens faster than in 6.1.0.
Eruption may or may not get nerfed (and when it does, yay, we can go back to complaining about PR or something until that gets nerfed) but killers don't run deep regression because it's fun.
They run deep regression because there's always a chance your next match will be a bunch of gen bunnies with a nasty map offering (and because outside of regression, killers don't have many universally useful perks that aren't info related, and info gets redundant fast).
I'm not arguing that at all. I fully understand why the current regression meta is a thing and for the most part it doesn't bother me all too much. But I think Eruption is a bit of a tipping point with it mainly due to the unpredictability of it and the snowball effect it can cause. It's all a bit of a perfect storm scenario where none of the perks alone are overly problematic, but together they are.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312849#Comment_3312849
Losing Bubba won't increase the number of Billy players. And people only want more Billy players because he is insanely easy to loop.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312304#Comment_3312304
I'm not torn at all. Bubba is a fantastic killer and I would never want him removed. I can name FIVE killers worse for this game than Leatherface.
I wasn't being serious with my post.... entirely. I WOULD love to see more Billy, but I don't genuinely want Bubba gone.
Also, wanting to see more Billy has nothing to do with being 'easy to loop' and everything to do with the majority of Billy killers I go against being down for a good time. I have such fun matches with Billy.
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@Rulebreaker said:
....on the one hand good riddance to the camping lawnmowers, on the other we really don't want to see more things go... We're so torn...
I'm more than happy to lose Bubba. I want more Billy. ,
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Because the snowmen don't have any impact? If Pinhead chooses to stand over the box without the snowmen you still can't pick it up.
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@KSzerker said:
IMO they should give the gens a visual effect showing it'll erupt, and change it to only preventing you from repairing gens that were Erupted in the last 25 seconds instead of giving you Incapacitated status.
Personally, playing against it doesn't particularly bother me, it's just boring to not be able to do anything (with some exception) for 25 seconds.
Eruption itself is not an issue - it's the stacking of it with things like Call of Brine, Overcharge, Jolt etc. when it becomes an issue. The problem is, it's VERY OFTEN stacked with these perks so you just know from the moment Eruption activates the match is just going to be a trial of attrition which isn't ideal.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312567#Comment_3312567
really, all it does is shuffle the situation over to the 2-surv step instead, if they're both healthy at the time.
If Hatch was removed, the Killer could (hopefully) open the damn door to force a timer.
The killer wouldn't open the door because it would give too much chance to a survivor to escape. Any killers willing to open the doors in this scenario are probably the ones who would give hatch.
The hatch will never be removed. If the killer has had 3 kills they've been deemed to have won. That won't be buffed any further.
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I really dislike midwich. I appreciate it's true to to the original source material... but depending on which killer you get it can immediately be a nightmare match e.g. Wesker's terror radius is pretty must in effect across the entire map, ranged killers can be too hard to deal with due to the amount of unavoidable open space e.g. four long open hallways on each floor and quite open views in many classrooms, the doors are too close together and never move, map variations commonly have gens in the hallways and at times two in the same hallway which become impossible to do the less survivors/gens there are.
I'm sure it's bad for some killers too - but as a survivor I never get the match and feel like it's going to be a good time.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312600#Comment_3312600
Contrary to popular belief, one side having a stun problem doesn't mean the other side should have a stun problem too, just that the original problem should be fixed.
What kind of logic even is that?
Salty killer logic.
The same logic I've seen saying we can't fix Eruption because Dead Hard was abused for so long. It's 'their turn'.
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Take a break.
If you're finding killer sad and depressing now, it's needed.