gilgamer
gilgamer
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Its definitely a case by case, im certainly not a fan of bhvr adding bandaid perks to problems like wglf and bbq having a bp modifier as a bandaid to the stupid amounts of grind but I also don't think making even just a severly weaker version of ruin to base kit would be in any way healthy to the game. Things like the stacking BP bonus from wglf and bbq should imo 100% be base kit and those perks be retuned or reworked accordingly afterwards.
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@HEXSLAYER999 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2372392#Comment_2372392
well this is an actual discussion now. So ok.
1) you first point is a good one, however it just further proves what I originally said. Survivor gameplay (which is the original game mode anyways) is built on survivors starting off with the least amount of knowledge.
learning to play the game that will actually builds skill because you have no choice then to play immersive, and resourcefully (as opposed to swf players, I’ve seen so many players at red ranks screw up literal whole trials because they make the most reckless decisions/choices.
the whole point of my (skill) argument you can’t say you “know or are masterful of a game” if you’re not even playing it correctly.
I would say that one suggestion you made is a good one. Solo queue can be buffed. Maybe perks that are for solo queue only. I will say I mentioned earlier making separate game queues is so much easier because you don’t have to do so much balancing
if there is a swf queue or server, devs can continue nerfing survivor and buffing killers (like they are doing now) and gameplay wise it would work, because swf does give that need for balancing the game.
but then leave solo queue as is with usually no actual need to nerf much because gameplay is as leveled as possible. Then their it is.
The thing is though is that there isn't really one way to play the game, I mean hell there aren't even completely clear win conditions since by bhvrs own admission the pip system doesn't work correctly(not too mention it punishes certain killers).
Id also like to add that playing the game as a solo queue and a swf is very different as you go into the match with a different playstyle. Solo queue is far slower and you manage your resources far more conservatively si ce you don't usually know what your team is doing and you have to take into account that they may not be doing the most productive thing so you really have to try and stretch every pallet and loop to their limit, plus you don't know what resources have or haven't been used.
The other major point is that this all insinuates that the players are taking things seriously which lets be honest most people don't most of the time.
For those reasons I'd rather just give survivors the information that at least somewhat rivals swf, not by just giving them bond as a passive or anything but by at least just making a system that allows people to communicate what they are doing at the very least. Scott jund has a video where he made a mock up of a system that would do something similar to what I mean(I dont remember what the video was called tbh and I just spent like ten minutes going through his video list and I couldn't find it so, sources:"dude trust me" but unironically).
One last thing I'd add is that playing solo and being immersed tends to back fire against most good killers, I know this since immersed survivors are both my least favorite thing to go against but I also acknowledge that they are the reason I win a decent portion of my games. Playing in solo queue to often seems to make people more hesitant since with coms you know where or what the killer is doing so you get used to being in the terror radius and not immediately looking for a bush or wall to hide behind which is just immensely inefficient and is half the reason I feel people get so much value out of ruin. Don't get me wrong stealth will always have its place but from my experience people in solo rely far too much on it to the point of throwing a match.
These are all opinions formed from my own experiences and seeing streamers and friends experience but dbd is a weird game and no 2 people are gonna have the same experience, plus as a killer I run a lot info perks like minimum 2 to stay in chase as much as possible since that's where I have the most fun.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2372371#Comment_2372371
Yeah, you can't be unbiased if you just assume everything they say is a lie. Those are literal opposites.
It'd be quite easy to prove your position, if it is indeed true, by doing a little math. Knowing what I know about probability and the human brain's incessant pattern-recognition that leads people to conjure up conspiracy theories from random, uncorrelated events, and looking at the actual data, I'm confident that it's random (within the parameters that BHVR has explicitly mentioned).
You know after checking the announcement for the anniversary shrine they said that it would "feature Perks from almost every single character in Dead by Daylight" can you tell me how statistically possible that would be if it were completely random?
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It is arguably his best addon for a reason but I have to say its certainly not a lot of fun to just randomly get taken out of the game with no warning whatsoever. Its like if old moris didn't even tell you they were in the game and then you just get hit with it. Also you don't get slowed down by Tombstone piece unlike Judith's Tombstone so its actually not that hard to tell the difference.
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I disagree with your fundamental position of fixing the swf problem in nerfing swf instead of buffing solo queue. There is a difference between swf and solo queue in terms of strength and ive yet to see a valid argument to the contrary.
So how to fix it well there seems to be 2 main methods buff solo queue or nerf swf I personally fall into the camp of buffing solo queue as no amount of swf nerfing will make solo queue any less annoying for me and the only reason I'd even play survivor is just so I can play with friends and thats the only way survivor is fun for me, not because it gives me a clear advantage but because I can't play killer with my friends simple as that.
By just giving survivor an in game way to properly communicate to their teammates ingame would go a long way towards this, would games get harder for killers? Yes absolutely but thats kind of the point, you want the different party sizes to be as close as possible in strength to ever have a chance of even somewhat balancing the game properly. Especially with a game with as wonky balancing as dbd.
This would also make many perks fairly useless, perks like bond, kindred, empathy and the like but again that's kind of the point these perks are already mostly useless outside of a few niches scenarios but they were mostly made with solo queue in mind and no thought to swf as they're mostly unnecessary for swf since being in a call with your mates is the best info perk in the game and it doesn't even take up a perk slot.
I am however completely open to the idea of doing a bit of both, say for instance while yes solo queue players are now able to communicate more effectively in game with randos a full swf squad will still have a higher mmr then a full team of randos with the same individual rankings. Since lets be honest you are far more likely to work together properly with people you know then people you dont.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2372336#Comment_2372336
Because it looks random. You see a pattern because you're looking for one (perks you want vs. perks you don't want). Fact is, coincidences do happen. Just look up the Feynman Point. That's a seemingly non-random sequence in an otherwise random set of digits. These things happen in random systems. It doesn't prove some big conspiracy.
Alright you know what, I dont think we'll see eye to eye on this because of there being an assumption of intent or a lack there of, as well as a certain amount of trust or distrust in bhvr staying to their words or just not communicating properly in house. Personally I have absolutely zero trust in bhvr almost ever being completely honest as a business and so assume the worst in most things while trying to be as objective as possible but I still have my bias and you have yours.
As such we'll just go in circles with neither agreeing, ill just say that I'll respect your opinion on it and end it there.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2366780#Comment_2366780
What do you think these people are complaining about? Overheat is annoying but it CAN be mostly removed from a common add on. He still controls identical in terms of movement and his base charge is the same.
People just want to be carried by Instasaw. All those players that were -actually- good at Billy are still playing him. Its just that very few people put the time in.
Don't get me wrong, before people jump down my throat, Overheat should NOT exist. It was complete unnecessary. But insta needed to be removed.
I literally never used insta saw, infact I ran him almost exclusively addonless with the occasional drift King mixed in for memes, and I dont wanna toot my own horn but I got pretty good at landing curves and just general billy gameplay and overheat along with some audio changes ruined my fun with him.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2372330#Comment_2372330
I see, well these are just 2 different opinions going around but I like how detailed you could explain everything, thanks for sharing your thoughts like that. Its rare to see that kind of ppl, most ppl just hate it and dont give an reason why.
Absolutely, im glad that although we certainly differ, we can at least respect each others opinions even if we disagree. After all I can absolutely see the dangers of just pandering to your playerbase and unnecessary hate mobs, plus people can get pretty heated and say some pretty awful things when discussing these topics.
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@zombenderranged said:
While that is also an idea. Just picture if they kept their system exactly the same but just removed the teir 1 & 2 options.
instead a teir 3 being 15,000 BP it would only be 6,000BP
So 84 perks x 6,000BP would be 504,000BP instead of 1,260,000 BP per killer
24 killers maxed out would be 12,096,000 instead of 32,240,000 saving you a whopping 20,144,000 BP
That's not even factoring in all the unnecessary sh*t you have to buy to finish a bloodweb or get to perks either.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2372306#Comment_2372306
Well, I don't have to either, because I look at it and see randomness. Now what?
Humans don't inherently understand probability. Unless you studied it, what you see is just your brain's pattern-recognition trying to extrapolate from random noise.
How can you see the event shrine and think it was random genuine question
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@BenZ0 said:
We all know that gaming has changed in the past few days. We had less games and therefore less things to compare or find a replacement for. Nowdays ppl make quick opinions about stuff and things like abilites, outfits or even entire games are beeing critized very easily.
Best example Black ops 4 zombies, it had a rough start due to alot crashes and other performence issues. It came to the point where ppl just started hating on it and not playing it anymore, now bo4 zombies has the reputation as the "worst" zombie mode. Infact the gameplay itsself is very refreshing and fun and probably the best zombie mode, but since ppl remember the rough start they will just not think about it that way.
Why do I tell you guys that? Well we have the same going on here in Dbd.
We had some rough chapters such as old Legion, Twins or other broken midchapter patches. It took a while to fix these problems and ppl will ofc focus on these negativities. Alot of ppl think that Twins is a "bad" Killer and say it is one of the worst chapters in the game, which is in my opinion very questionable. The Killer is very well designed with a very clear goal. Mechanicly Twins is problably the best designed Killer ingame with a very balanced power. Yes a big argument is that Twins is a very slug heavy Killer, and now what? Same as Oni or Nurse, why are ppl not complaining aoub tthem? Then also visually the Killer looks very nice and creepy, also the perks for both sides are very interesting and fun. Especially Elodie's Deception is a very fun and actually suprisingly strong perk. This perk has a very high versitile useage but many ppl dont just see it or overlook it.
Same goes to the Resident Evil chapter. I agree that the map is just a hot burning dumbster fire but besides that Nemesis is a very cool and interesting Killer with a refreshing way to play against him. Yes he is kind of simiular to Pyramid but yet still DIFFERENT. Same goes to the perks, all of the new perks of Nemesis and the survivors are very unique, interesting and offer alot of fun and interesting new playstyles. But yet ppl still claim this Chapter to be "the worst" or " very bad".
Thats why here again, ppl these days just overlook very easily things and close their eyes to the awsome new ways and possibilites the new updates offer to us. It is very sad and I wish ppl would start to view things more detailed and make their own opnions based on their own experience and not just go along with other ppls opinion without questioning it.
Why are you like this? Not everyone but I see alot of ppl writing posts or discussing in Twitter about certaign chapters beeing bad for no real reasons...
Well I just straight disagree with you on multiple points. I'd argue twins are one the worst designed killers in the game when fun is taken into consideration instead of just effectiveness. They're design is fine but that also matters extremely little to me, killer could be a stick figure for all I care as long as the power is fun to use and face. I've seen very little people enjoy facing or even really playing nemesis without rose colored glasses of nostalgia for the series, I dont think he's the worst killer by any means but he's certainly not even top 10 of killers id like to go against.
I'll admit the addition of AI helpers was a neat concept but from my experience of playing as him for a full day when he launched and against him since he launched the zombies are dumb as a bricks and are only threats when you literally can't get around them, and his own power is just 2 different powers but worse(plague and Pyramid head). Which leaves you with a killer that feels oppressive in chase but has a very slow time to down due to having to hit a survivor three times if you want to use his power at all while also having mediocre map pressure when he gets a map that actually suits his zombies well and awful map pressure on open maps you get an overall meh killer. Not too mention how weird and buggy his tentacle strike is.
His perks are fine lethal pursuer is nice but hysteria is terrible and eruption is okay under certain circumstances, they kinda balance each other out to just being okay overall. Survivor perk wise ill admit was pretty good with a decent variety of certainly not meta but fun perks which id argue is way more important.
Not too mention the host of new bugs that came with chapter release from clown and his bugged bottles and blight not being able to rush sometimes after a stun. Plus the obvious of the massive performance issues for many last gen consoles which is a large amount of the playerbase and to add salt into the wound they almost completely reused the event from last year with extremely minute and ultimately inconsequential differences, the extra bp is nice I guess but not worth the massive bump in toxicity it caused.
With the RE chapter being, IMHO, an absolute disaster overall coupled with all-kill and binding of kin being lackluster to downright awful chapters as well I honestly don't see how anyone can defend bhvr at this point.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2372273#Comment_2372273
I'm saying that you're offering what you claim are statistical anomalies, even though they're complete opposites, as "evidence" that the Shrine is rigged.
If the Shrine is rigged, it should be easy to prove. The wiki has every Shrine ever, just do the math. Keep in mind the following when you do that:
- The total number of perks in each Shrine is not the same, due to new DLCs being released.
- Perks that are required for challenges show up on the Shrine, to allow people to complete those challenges.
- There are 2 survivor perks and 2 killer perks nowadays, but that wasn't the case before.
I literally don't have too you just have to look at the event shrine, you can't look at that line up and say it wasn't curated, and if they did it then why is it such a leap in logic to assume they've done it at least somewhat for awhile.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2372261#Comment_2372261
To be clear, you're saying it's curated because:
- Perks most people want (which are a minority of perks overall) don't show up often.
But also because:
- Perks most people want showed up.
So it doesn't matter if the perks you want appear or not, because either way you believe the Shrine is rigged and use completely contradictory statements and events to "support" that notion.
As for "highly sought after perks" (i.e.: meta perks) showing up infrequently, that's just probability. Meta perks are always a minority among all perks. Furthermore, meta perks would always have a lower overall frequency because they were created/introduced after the Shrine. See my analogy here:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2359601#Comment_2359601
Yes, some perks can appear more often than others, even if they have the same probability to appear. That's how probability works.
What do you mean either way supports my belief? I offered statistical anomalies, the shrine during the event was clearly curated to be better then normal, because they wanted people to play during the event its not hard to understand the motive there yet the rest of the year they drop bbq like once a year.
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Kinda hope not they haven't added a map I liked almost ever, pretty much all of my favorite maps are in MacMillan and auto haven and the realm reborn has been direct downgrades in terms of gameplay for pretty much every single map they've touched with it, so idk whats changed about their map design philosophy since like year 1 but I hate it.
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I'm 100% sure that it's not completely random, too many perks show up way to frequently and a many if the highly sought after perks like BBQ show up so infrequently. If I were to guess its probably a mix of random and curated, probably randomize it initially and then they curate it from there. The event shop confirmed that they absolutely have the ability to curate the shop ex:Ruin/undying in the same shrine, I mean cmon. As well as just most of the first couple days the shrine was just filled with mostly meta perks, I refuse to believe it was a coincidence.
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@SnakeSound222 said:
Unfortunately it seems that way. A lot of these RPD complaints would likely go away if it showed up because people would be able to learn the map.
Idk about that one chief, I've gotten it twice as killer and 3 times as survivor (lucky me) and I still hate it deeply.
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I legit don't think you can against people of even somewhat close skill to you. The way they are designed just requires you to play scummy to have any amount of success against people your skill level.
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Absolutely hes has very outdated design and has needed a power tweak and an addon pass for a long time, he has way too much of a disparity between his addons with some being near useless to others being way to strong.
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I really couldn't care less about the IP or design of the killer as long as their power is fun. Bhvr hasn't put out a killer inliked to play consistently since blight and they've only made him worse with the one exception of fixing his pov which should have never made it to live and also f*cked his collision more since for some reason his collision is based on his POV, but yeah I've been in a real drought for new killers and with each chapter release I have less and less faith that they will put out a fun killer again.
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Spirit, I have a hearing deficit in one ear that makes directional audio a real challenge for me, on most killers I can kind of work around it with info perks and the such but with such a sound wh*ore killer I have a lot of trouble pinpointing things.
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Toss up between hag, trapper, and twins.
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Just a problem thats always been in the game but with each chapter it gets just a little bit worse and I suppose it's just reached its boiling point.
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Spawned in as demo on gas heaven, had ruin undying(it just came out at the time and I was testing it dont judge me) and within 30 seconds both ruin and undying were gone I had only found 1 person while running towards my totem and they just got super lucky spawns and both spawned on my totems as well as the whole team having distortion so I never even saw auras.
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I just dc on like 4 maps depending on the killer, if I'm playing blight you best believe i ain't playing Hawkins, lerys, rpd or haddonfield.
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as far as I'm aware actually nothing.
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@Pookalookie said:
Killers already get frustrated when they see a survive with friends so I’m not sure if the community would be for this. Also it was intentional to limit the communication between survivors to make it more eerie and immersive.
Yes but its the reason why SWF is so much stronger then solo this would bring them closer and as such devs would be able to better balance the game between SWF and solo
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######### else you gonna do with BT in the game its just not worth it
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Its still fine for its purpose
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used it a few times but I don't really like kicking gens too much so I didn't really like it
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@GeneralV said:
As someone who lost his favorite killer, I support this idea.
Right there with you I have at least like 200 hours of 1 tricking Billy and would go back in a heart beat if they just remove overheat
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Yes all the time
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@D3spair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2366749#Comment_2366749
It's a comparison of my results of just trying to have fun by not sweating(following the survivor rule book) and me going full on sweat with Twins. The latter which is which I have more fun.
I mean that's cool but players like you are the reason people insta DC against twins and frankly I don't blame or shame them for it.
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I'd say nurse is still harder mechanically but you need more map knowledge with blight both can be fairly challenging to master but blight has a much easier skill curve since you can play him like just your average M1 killer while nurse is forced to use her power
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Trickster has some cool ones, most are unusable in his current state with his over reliance on certain addons after his will be a different story though, Twins exists???lol thought they were a nightmare I had after eating too much taco bell, nemisus's mostly suck dog doo doo.
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Anyone who says spirit is harder is high or has never played nurse and just assumed
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yeah im sorry but 4 man slugging makes me think less of you as a player especially at 3 gens
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@DoomedMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364811#Comment_2364811
The amount of skill required to "loop" a god Nurse is equal of the skill the latest is showing while playing her.
If you really know how to play Nurse, you know how to play against her.
Those who are saying she's broken af never put time into learning her. She has weaknesses that no other killers have, same for her strength, you "just" have to know how to play around her weaknesses.
sure dude that's why she's always the top killer in the game by anyone's cause she can be looped, I guarantee that people of equal skill in survivor and nurse the survivor goes down in less then 45 seconds every single time most likely quite a bit less. Also you don't really loop a "god" nurse you hope to a god that isn't listening that she misses and you run to the nearest line of sight breaker and hope again, repeat till she downs you inevitably and if you don't have dead hard you dying in one teleport less. I'm sorry but anybody that says "nurse has proper counterplay" I just cant take seriously.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/266459/wraith-never-needed-a-rework
I know you'll get a bunch of forum-killer hate for saying this but I do actually agree with you. Wraith is such a low skill killer that he didn't deserve a buff. He was a solid "C" tier killer and that is perfectly fine. Now he's an "S" tier killer that needs nerfs.
In what way shape or form is wraith on the level of spirit, nurse, blight, or hell even hag. He has many counters, he just now has an actual chance against even somewhat decent teams unlike before. I'd definitely argue some of his addons need a nerf, all-seeing in both variants in particular as well as his silent bell, but his base kit and most of his addons are great where they are.
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@apathyinc said:
Wraith's base kit is pretty great now, but honestly the All Seeing addons are a little too overpowering.
Yeah i'd agree with that but anybody saying he was fine before his buffs are nuts
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People have been suggesting solutions to the grind problem for awhile now and it only becomes more of a problem with every chapter, they'll likely do something but it will come after too long and will probably not do enough, like usual.
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You can use whatever you want if people ######### and moan about it, usually says more about them then anything else.
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No but that's probably because I play wraith and I go out of my way not to be toxic when possible.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2364373#Comment_2364373
By "mean things", they mean "hate speech". Always assume "mean things" in that context means "hate speech" or "harassment". It's very typical to downplay what's actually being banned to make it seem ridiculous.
except for the part where bhvr's chat filter is one of the worse most nonsensical ones I've ever seen. Names of killers and survivors are sometimes censored and its not even consistent, I assume it's attempting to guess at intent but its absolutely god awful. So why not at least add an on/off feature for the people who don't mind seeing some profanity. Im an adult I dont need some company telling me I cant say damn in a game where I murder people by offering them to some eldritch deity.
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The more popular a survivor is the more skins they get, at least for original characters. Not like cosmetics effect game balance in like 95% of situations anyways.
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just give me an outdoor map that isnt the size of the moon please its been so long. Though if im being honest not a single dlc map that's come out since I started playing when ghost face was released has been a good map imo
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I'd add deleting RPD, jk I know that would never happen but I do hope they consider cutting it in half or something map is both massive, indoors, and a labyrinth, really ticks all those boxes for a terrible map. They did a very faithful recreation of the RE2 map but that did not translate well at all to DBDs gameplay.
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I don't really care that much whether or not I get rewards for anything I just want the game to be more accessible for people who don't like the grind as well as to make leveling up more then a few killers/survivors not an absolutely maddening process.
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@Phasmamain said:
Being able to instadown and kill people or regress gens for free is pretty strong. Totem finding perks are needed to make solo bearable with hexes
And I agree but they shouldn't just be handed to survivors when they aren't even using those perks like so many spawns in the game currently. Right now it feels like a risk whether or not you are even gonna be given a decent chance at defending your totem at all with how some spawns are.
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@Bluerry said:
nurse is all fine she needs skill to play if someone is good at her this doesn't mean she requires to be nerfed
I mean the problem with nurse is that if you are good enough at nurse you nullify any amount of survivor skill until you get up to the very tippy top of tournament players and even then if its a small enough map it still wont really matter. There's a reason most tourneys are just nurse and spirit unless they limit how many times those killers can be played. So sure you can says she balanced due to her requirement of skill to even be a functioning killer let alone the best killer in the game bar none but having that insane skill still result in a nigh impossible killer to face still doesn't seem right to me.
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@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2362513#Comment_2362513
I am asking your opinion :) There is no need to concensus anything friend.
Fair enough I suppose, well then if I were to throw my 2 cents in I'd say launch legion and/or spirit