How are you supposed to play Twins fairly, yet organically?
When I play a killer like Spirit, Oni or Bubba, I am quite mindful of how I play. I go in with the mindset of wanting 12 hooks and have some nice back and forth interactions. I typically hook immediately and try my best to not proxy camp, tunnel or slug. if I can play Bubba and not face camp, then surely I'll be a saintly Twins player that's best friends with survivors.
I got Twins yesterday, and the matches seemed to have been kinda fun with interactions on both teams. But there seems to be a bit of a....misunderstanding, surely? One minute I'm chasing one survivor, then before I know it 4 survivors are slugged on the floor.
I never tunnel, but I keep waking up and accidentally end up tunneling somebody.
On my second Twins match, I realized after the game I made one survivor die with 366 bloodpoints....oh my god I didn't realize that I'm literally scum of the freaking earth. I've never even gone that far with full Basement Trapper.
I'm literally trying my hardest to play as clean and ethically as I can, and I'm being mindful of the survivor experience as best I can because I personally want to die when I face the Twins, but games keep ending in disaster...why is this so HARD? What am I doing wrong?
I feel like whenever I hook a survivor and I don't pack Viktor and run to the opposite side of the map and count to 30 blindfolded, I'm a POS who deserves a painful end or something.
I just want people to laugh at my antics, put in their best and have a good time. Is that just impossible with Twins? Or am I still too inexperienced to see the Light? If it helps, my build is Bamboozle, Lethal Pursuer, Thrilling Tremors and Starstruck
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Sorry but the Twins were just designed to suck any possible survivor fun out of a match. Every aspect of their design was carefully selected to make them as torturous and anti-fun as humanly possible. It’s not you, there’s just no way to play this killer in a way that’s enjoyable for anyone else.
Welp, guess it's back to stocking Haddonfield offerings and just playing House then.
I only go for the mass slug with Victor when the survivors have foolishly created the conditions for me to do that with Victor. I.e. staying grouped up injured and failing to crush me in time. Other than that I don’t down one injured survivor then deliberately go searching out another injured survivor.
I find Victor WAY more useful latched onto healthy survivors as he creates a large amount of stall if this is done regularly throughout the match, AND as a sentry near gens I know survivors are likely to return to while I use Charlotte to pressure other nearby gens.
Unless you enjoy losing it's impossible to 12 hook with the Twins. They're so fundamentally flawed that it just doesn't work.
I think you were meant to play them by placing Charlotte and Victor at different points in a loop, and laying out ambushes with them... thing is, their switching is way too slow to dynamically do that, and it's so easily countered by just moving away from the loop that the idea was doomed from conception. Maybe hiding Charlotte a ways behind a contested generator and reactivating her to surprise chase people off of it? But you don't have any way of knowing when people return to that gen. Or the angle survivors take to approach it, which could give away the whole game. They're just really not built for anything that isn't tunneling and slugging.
The Twins design is fundamentally unhealthy. It's not really possible to play "fair" and do well with them against anyone decent. They're designed to camp, tunnel, and slug.
You can't. The added time of switch to Victor -> chase -> down -> swap to charlotte -> walk over to survivor -> finally begin the pickup and hook process adds so much time, if you don't take advantage of Victors 150% movespeed and only use him to secure one down and try to hook every time you will only have a few hooks before the gens are finished.
Play them however you want to.
There isn't a playbook you have to follow or any rules to adhere to. That said the Twins are pretty much just hard for survivors to deal with as while Charlotte is lackluster, Victor is quite good at downing people. He's fast, small, doesn't need to respect palettes with the right spacing and provides overwatch when you're controlling Charlotte while he's unleashed. Their design is pretty different when it comes to how survivors usually want to play the game. Slug juggling is just sort of what happens since your downs are likely to come from Victor and little homie can't lift. By the time Charlotte lumbers over you're gonna probably find another survivor nearby trying to make a save and end up downing them.
I keep forgetting their even in the game tbh. They feel clunky and pointless in many ways. The anti-camp zone around the hook is surprisingly big which mesns you can't switch quickly.
Slow animations, mediocre playstyle, and (imo) hideous design just turn me away.
You more or less have to slug with them, at the very least. That is why I am not too interested in buying them myself.
I play as fair as I can.
It just sucks when I play really fair; hooking everyone asap, not using victor to camp, not mass slugging after 1 down, etc. and I get hate mail for it. Since twins are pretty unique, my matches for them are quite different every match. I like to use them to defend different gens and/or to lockdown a small building such as the coal tower.
You don't. They have too many counters and take too long to do anything.
You slug everyone. Everyone is treated the same. So, fairly. And the slugging is organic too. Almost surgical.
Believe it or not, but the extensive slugging is the most optimal way of playing Twins.
You can play how you like but know good survivors will stomp you easily if you wont slug them.
Thats how this killer was designed, sadly
Follow the rules (the real rules, not player-imagined rules) and you're playing fair.
Play how you want within that context and you're playing organically.
Self-imposing arbitrary restrictions is the opposite of organic.
Just play and don't think about the "fair" part. Twins is designed for camping and having different killers is what makes survivor fun also.
I legit don't think you can against people of even somewhat close skill to you. The way they are designed just requires you to play scummy to have any amount of success against people your skill level.
it seems like they wanted you to stick victor on people and then go attack other people with charlotte while the other is removing victor, but theres so many extra factors involved, like how far apart they are, how slow they swap etc that it just doesn't work, and buffing aspects like swap time just buffs the awful camping slugging spree option.
The main issue with twins (at least for me) is that Victor has a massive hitbox when pouncing and has a measly 6 second cooldown after being kicked. With his movespeed, hes gonna be back to either slug the same person or stick to the person healing pretty easily, and then you just snowball from there and end up with 4 slugs. How do you even go about fixing any of that without making twins feel even clunkier and worse to play than they already do?
That might have been a goal with them, but it seems such a different playstyle that I wouldn't think of it first when seeing The Twins.
Maybe something like fast switching between killers will be implemented down the road. I always imagined the Legion like this. Multiple characters. You have full control of one and the others are semi automated (AI). But then you can switch between them.
Survivors should play in duos to stand a chance against good twins. If they don't know that, they're doomed to be slugged.
Something that particularly bothers me about their design is how they are indirectly forced to camp. Say you down someone with Victor, now you switch to Charlotte and hook the survivor. You have both characters in close to the hook now and you can only move one at a time. So even after you leave the hook, you're still camping. Same if you slug and switch characters.
I'd love to have an option to call Victor back and let him attach to Charlotte so you can take both characters elsewhere without having to do it twice. Charlotte already has an idle button, let her call Victor back.
that's sort of how I was trying to play them, as a setup killer. The first perk I unlocked was Bamboozle, and I assumed you could bodyblock with Charlotte so the Twins seemed like a more dynamic Clown, honestly. Bamboozle shack window, Block pallet with Charlotte, and down with Viktor.
Tbh I assumed that was a thing when I bought Twins, It's crazy that you can't just recall him.
That's why I love the Twins. I want to suck the fun from survivors corpses with Victor.
Plus, there's that really funny youtube video of Quinton holding Victor. "I gotchu on Camera". I highly recommend watching it.
You spawn and release victor
You pounce on nea.
You chase nea or you smack claudette
You release victor
You pounce on nea or claudette.
After downing one of the two you pounce on meg.
Pick up nea and hook her.
Release victor and so on
Firstly, my comment was clearly exaggerated and not entirely serious. Secondly, why do you assume I don’t know the Twins? I’ve played both as and against them many times, that’s how I formed my opinion. Funny that you accuse me of being part of an echo chamber based on absolutely nothing, if I didn’t know any better I’d assume your own echo chamber has conditioned you to assume certain things about people who have opinions you don’t agree with.
I've made this comment in the past and will make it again. All of the flaws that the twins have go away if Victor loses his ability to down survivors. If victor attacks a healthy survivor they get head crabbed again. This would obviously make the Twins garbage tier, but once that change is made you can start to Buff all sorts of things with twins.
Buffs.
You can change to and from Victor at any time
Switching is immediate and no cool down
When Victor locks a survivor in a locker , Breaking out of the locker works the same way as a trappers trap
When victor face crabs a survivor he no longer immediately switches back to charlotte, you can, if you choose to detach yourself from the survivor if there's another survivor nearby that you would like to head crab
Survivors that are head crabbed are hindered
The killer was designed with slugging in mind. Swapping back and forth between victor and charlotte to hook after EVERY down is a huge time sink. You have to get more dmg in with Victor to apply proper pressure. If you can get extra hits in with Victor after downing someone...do that. In the amount of time it would take to cross the map as Charlotte to find a downed survivor, you're giving the 3 other survivors WAY too much free time to pump out gens.
That's just a worst Legion. And it's bad because Legion isn't even that good.
To stop Charlotte from excessively slugging, it's the only way. Otherwise she has to slug, right? Feel free to point out an alternative that would actually stop the core issues with Charlotte. Killers can be buffed but broken unfun killers are like that until the core issue is fixed.
Charlotte's core issues are :
that if Victor downs a survivor then Charlotte has to travel to the slugged survivor, pick them up and then bring them to the hook. It's much more efficient to leave them slugged and injure or down another survivor and only hooking when you have time or have several survivors downed.
that Charlotte or Victor can remain near a hook to immediately pressure survivors who have unhooked.
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This change effectively removes both of these scenerios. Yes, you could leave charlotte near the hook, but then you won't be able to down survivors, only injure them. Or you could leave victor near the hook, but now Victor can only injure and attach himself to survivors but not down.
Once that core problem is fixed, we can start buffing other attributes of either Victor or Charlotte to the point where we get an interesting killer.
I thought the concept was horrible the first time I saw them in PTB.
I stand by my original impression.
Give a longer cooldown for missed pounces so survivors can punish bad Victors.
Reduce Victor's MS from 150 to 135%.
Increase Charlotte's MS when Victor is not attached to her and maybe give her a longer lunge (like Myers in T3), so she has some 1v1 potential.
Basically nerf Victor and buff Charlotte.
Another option is making Charlotte an AI that follows Victor around very slowly, so slugging is not that attractive anymore because you can hook people. Basically make her work like Nemesis' zombies.
These are all decent potential changes, I hope that the devs experiment with a few different versions of Twins and then choose something that works. While I still think that my idea could work, really what we all want is some core changes to have it so that the best way to play the Twins is also the most fun for everyone.