fulltonon
fulltonon
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207440#Comment_3207440
So you admit that the reason is because camping and tunnelling just gives easier kills to the killer and has nothing to do with if the survivors are rushing gens. I’m glad we can agree.
I was about to comment with "the reason killers camp and tunnel is because it exists" lol.
Oh wait, my post doesn't actually conflict with that at all though, to "counter" gen rushing you NEED to do such from the beginning, otherwise it'll be too late when you notice it.
So yeah, I guess you are just incorrect.
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@Marigoria said:
Killers still tunnel and camp at 5 gens so I don’t think that’s the reason.
Well it's pretty normal because when killers camp or tunnel at 3 gen it's just too late.
Those strategies are only effective when they do it from the beginning.
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There is thousands more situations where killers needs to slug without abusing it in any way, it will affect them, and it will be game breaking.
Anyone saying "it won't affect normal match" just don't know enough situations that can happen in a game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207336#Comment_3207336
I disagree, that sounds like a way to make the game insufferable and not even possible to be coded into the game.
Huh? just remove kobeing penalty and that's it, it'll be thousand times more difficult to suicide than what it is now.
What's insufferable or not possible about it?
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207299#Comment_3207299
A group of friends testing the limits of a perk is not representation of normal gameplay. That 1 hour game in PTB was done with the cooperation of the killer. They were testing it on purpose. PTB is not representative of actual game play - if people wanted to sit on gens they would play live, not PTB.
And if no one tried to help the hooked person, the game would still end. Because they can't keep using Reassurance when the killer is chasing them or downing them or hooking them.
It can and will happen in normal gameplay, "it will not common so it's fine" is just false.
killers chasing survivors are also considered "helping them", just like hitting body blocker.
The fact people can permanently lock a survivor within a game without any way to end it (by their action) just by cooperating with killer, is serious game breaking issue.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207320#Comment_3207320
If it was a weak strategy so many wouldn't do it. A blight traveling across the map putting everyone on the floor just seems a little too easy for one player.
yeah many aren't doing slugfest, what are you even talking about lol
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207323#Comment_3207323
The DC penalty is a bandaid fix now players just give up on hook lmao.
Yeah, to properly fix this we needs to patch up any of "free throwing" method.
At least make it costs their time or some effort, so they will do it less.
I doubt people circumventing penalty by abusing certain mechanics will make it "band aid" anyway.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207309#Comment_3207309
Whatever punishment we can come up with will be circumvented by the DC'ing problem just becoming something else.
It is a slippery slope.
DC problem--->Suiciding on hook problem-->Giving up problem---> "now this problem"
At a certain point we have to acknowledge the failure of the DC penalties and especially now that it has been weaponized by cheaters.
At the end of the day players will either give up or DC no matter the penalty.
I would even go as far to say that removing a DC penalty would discourage players from participating in excessively toxic behavior. Survivors would think twice before being toxic to a killer that is not forced to play against them under threat of a matchmaking ban and vice versa.
Unlike your belief, people won't throw the game when playing it out is easier, that is exactly the reason why killers will not afk as much as survivor suicide.
It's not a slippery slope, removing easy way to skip the game will make much less players to do such.
Literally every game has DC penalty and literally no one thinks that is bad, I feel dbd is the only game where people think throwing the game should be allowed.
Cheaters problem is cheaters problem, we need to fix it but not by stupid band-aid that makes bigger problem.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207303#Comment_3207303
The "DC problem" is still alive and well, its just transformed into the "suiciding on hook" problem.
Then we should fix it, it's a serious problem that is as bad as hackers, or even worse because they don't be punished and keep doing so in every single matches.
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Well, if we somehow had a method to know whether they gave up or not, someone who just decide to give up within a match deserves to be penalized.
PvP games doesn't work when we expect people to not play properly.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207285#Comment_3207285
It can't hold the game hostage as it doesn't stop the killer from downing and hooking the other survivors. Nor does it stop the hooked survivor from being unhooked by others.
But what if none tried to help them? it was abusable, and actually got abused, forced victim survivor to stay in a match for indefinite time.
That is exactly the reason why they fixed it.
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@Crowman said:
The thing is I doubt BHVR actually were intending on getting slugging as a strategy. They just don't really understand the game at a level where they would realize the full impact of the changes.
Knockout exists though...
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@Nazzzak said:
I've stopped enough team mates from letting go on hook to know they'll just find some other way to get out. Had a Legion with Iron Maiden not long ago, and after I stopped someone from letting go in the basement they just started spamming in and out of lockers down there. I could hear the screams from some distance on my gen and it was so annoying, the Legion had to stop a chase across the map to come deal with them.
I can't see BHVR doing anything anyway - didn't they nerf Reassurance because of the prospect of people being kept on hook against their will? I can't see them implementing a mechanic or something that does the same
Huh? reassurance is definitely different matter because that can hold the game hostage, removing kobeing will not cause such.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
It's been said before, I'll say it again: you cannot force someone to play a match they don't want to play. Tweak all the mechanics you want, it won't happen. This is true of all online games, not just DBD.
You can, however, try not to ruin the game for other players. Using bots is one solution. You can also backfill players into a match like Overwatch does, but given that they will likely be thrown into a losing scenario, they should receive a tremendous amount of BP compensation for doing so (something like starting them off with all of the BP the quitter earned, adding in whatever the backfilled player earns in the remainder of the match, and multiplying it by something crazy like 5x).
You can force lot more people to play a match they don't want to play though, how many times you see killer afk or disconnect? they aren't as common as survivor counterpart.
"removing free rights to DC does nothing" is just plain incorrect, punishing them WILL make game better.
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The fact is they just wanted to remove slugging and used moris as excuse.
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According to developers, current killer que takes lot shorter than previous survivor que though, it's not even "long".
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206132#Comment_3206132
No, I think the self unhook attempt needs some sort of penalty to it.
Otherwise nothing stops you from just spamming it as much as you can to see if you get lucky and I certainly wouldn't like the first hook on people being inconsistent on whether anyone even needs to bother unhooking or not.
We could definitely limit it to 3 attempts and change the penalty for it, such as an increased healing time or decreased repair speed after being unhooked, but just removing it is not a good idea IMO.
Yeah who cares, allowing survivors to spam it is still better than giving them rights to freely disconnect from the game.
@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207189#Comment_3207189
Yes, but I think the more common issues would be better suited to addressing them specifically as opposed to a blanket change.
This is extremely common cause of bad games, this is certainly one of a biggest problem DbD has.
So by your logic this is most important thing to address.
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Only if unbreakable weren't extremely strong perk...
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It's ridiculous how it's been ignored till today despite being such a glaring issue, and it's actually baffling why some people defend such mechanic.
We don't even need to remove self unhook attempt, just remove penalty and game will be lot more healthier.
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@About8Genjis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3205895#Comment_3205895
It's like you said, the biggest meta shift, which caused A LOT of survivor players (especially solo players) to take a break, due to them feeling like the game has turned into a "killer-favoured" game.
The avg. escape rate of all survs together is 39%, tunneling is at an all time high due to DS being nerfed and even the basekit BT not really helping (especially against STBFL users), Nurse and Blight('s addons) still being unchanged after people making big discussions about them and how their powers/addons are problematic.
What I am seeing is not a "stagnant" player base but a base that shifted in both directions very fast: Lots of players leaving due to the changes, lots of players coming in due to the chapter (and coming back due to the changes).
Also, very convenient of you to not show the June/July stats, as this is the time period where said balance changes were announced and implemented and the stats speak for themselves:
Lot of players left just because anniversary events ended, there is no other factor there.
It's happening every year, literally.
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It's interesting 6.1.0 ultimately made no big difference in win rate.
@GroovyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3205033#Comment_3205033
High MMR is a myth. It's just essentially like red ranks in the old ranking system. Strong players get paired with just about everyone aside from the very new players.
The strongest players are winning 90-95% of their matches playing weak killers and 99%+ of their matches with strong killers.
Have you seen OP's data lol
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Kill rates and win rates are entirely different anyway, since securing 1 kill is not difficult even in losing matches it's expected to have slightly higher than 50% kill rates when win rates are equal.
And yes, emblems are extremely outdated stupid mechanis, it has to be fixed for both.
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Fundamental change is welcome but I feel literally no one asked for this kind of mori rework.
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Just ask your teammates to bring Borrowed time, even in solo q you should have pre game chat I think.
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It's a team based game, losing to teammate's mistake is fair.
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I can't believe how they managed to choose worst solution to that one specific problem, it affects too much things.
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@C3Tooth said:
You will do great, we believe in you !
Indeed, this change does literally nothing to camping, killers can camp like usual and win like usual!
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I don't even think that is what BHVR is asking for, they love releasing PTB stuff earlier and I doubt that's just for hype.
Trying to silence feedback when that is likely to be what devs are looking for seems strange move.
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It's just baffling how they decided to made BETTER unbreakable basekit while skipping every other problem, like how.
@randonly said:
well, I've said it before and I'll say it again, the community is hasty and getting confused, the update has nothing to do with helping SoloQueue or fighting slug by itself, it's simply a mechanic to prevent speed runs and abuse the game design with the new mechanics of "last standing".
But I would, of course, love kindred as a base-kit, or at least bond, would really help, or a ping system like in my old suggestion:
Btw you can already slug every one of survivors and that is instawin as is, last stand or not it doesn't matter.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201478#Comment_3201478
Except that the dev blog literally states these changes aren't going into 6.3.0. This is literally the time where bvhr is putting changes on the ptb that aren't going directly live.
Will BHVR likely completely can the system, probably not. But there's a bigger chance that we'll see more drastic adjustment to the system based on feedback since it's not going immediately live.
People should leave feedback, but I think calling this the worst ptb when the devs are trying something new with the ptb is a bit much. I would enjoy the devs using the ptb to experiment with more changes. Imagine if Billy rework (especially those release addons) went through multiple iterations before going live.
Though we'll have to see what actual adjustments get made to these systems in the future. I would rather the devs do more of this experimentation as long as it means they are going to make more iterative changes.
It's not "bit much", it's bad enough to be called one of worst PTB, and that is exactly what they are asking for ("feedback").
Without MANY people saying "this just sucks", they will just implement it anyway, you seems to be trying to silence criticism when BHVR itself has been cautious and released PTB little earlier, which doesn't makes sense at all.
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It was meh perk, and it still is.
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What, finishing an already winning match with stylish manner is not enough for you?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
yes turbo buff tunneling so nurse has pyramid head's power. sounds like a good plan to merge killer powers.
Yeah, it's just like adding perks to basekit with buffing perk itself too, definitely not a problem.
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@Jangles said:
My guy, You've made 10 long winded posts about this already. We get it, you're not happy. Let it go to the PTB first before you start freaking out.
Not enough, we needs thousands.
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@ad19970 said:
Really doubt that will happen.
Personally, I believe this is yet just another overreaction to a balance change. Just like people calling solo queue dead after the killer buffs. I am positive it will be fine, slugging is an unfun strategy to go against, so it being nerfed a little is completely fine. The exception here being the buff to Unbreakeable, which seems wildly broken. It should just keep the 35% increased recovery speed and that's it.
I am glad the devs are conitnuously trying to add changes to the game that improve the game. While the killer buffs were not the best idea without any compensation buffs on the survivors side, they were very good for the game. Making killers a little less perk dependent, and generally just a bit stronger.
Now we got the anti-tunneling buff in 6.2.0, and we are continuing with a nerf to slugging. It's pretty good. I personally just hope we will see some more nerfs to camping and tunneling in the 6.3.0 update, cause I am hoping we will be getting more changes that weren't talked about yet in that patch, bsurely the midchapter update will not just contain bug fixes.
For some reason, plenty of reactions for the changes of survivor side has been famous for NOT being overreaction, boil over, coh, endurance rework, ALL of those "overreacted" changes were actually not fine at all.
I'm sure this is no different.
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You legit try killing everyone in 45 seconds? that's rad.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202478#Comment_3202478
My argument is that they already do that.
I already sort of disagree with what I posted and have evolved my statement. I'd like to see the system removed and replaced with something that actually works.
Killers will not.
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If they remove struggling and saving it will be a good idea lol
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@Tobe said:
You guys will be surprised to find out how many ESP hacks are quietly being abused now. Unlike SpeedHack, ESP is rarely sanctioned because it is impossible to report with video evidence.
If people use ESP for pinhead with box, that's rather tame variant tbh lol
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202058#Comment_3202058
There is a reason why most people think No Mither is a terrible perk.
No, it's just overreaction, like so much on these forums to be fair. Slugging simply won't be as strong anymore, but that is probably a good thing for the game. It's just weird for that to be addressed while camping and tunneling are still such a problem. But yeah, 45 seconds is quite a bit of time anyways, it won't be a big problem at all. It's definitely healthy for the game, just as nerfs to camping and tunneling would be.
Whether it might need some counterbalancing is to be seen, but honestly, I doubt it. It really won't have too much of an impact, it will probably hurt sweaty slugging Nurses the most, which is honestly a really good thing, cause that is just completely broken anyways.
*23 seconds.
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Killers can now dance as an emote.
@Steel_Eyed said:
They should probably nerf STBFL too. It’s overtuned after 6.1.0.
It's not.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202170#Comment_3202170
Stay at pallet to down purposely is certainly exploitable with this change. But its still only if the disturbing survivor can stay annoying for 45sec, if they success, they earn it.
I dont like this change either. But Un basekit complaining is over react for me.
*23 seconds, or less.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202352#Comment_3202352
But to be fair... why would you just leave the survivor on the floor? I don't see a situation where I would want to force survivors to come for the pick up. Especially when I know that the more they linger on the floor the more time they have to get to a pallet etc.
You would have to be slugging excessively and for long periods of time to notice a difference.
There is a plenty of situation you want to and you are forced to do such, and 22 seconds is nowhere "excessive" at all.
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Mending could do a thing... maybe?
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That could be actual next PTB.
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At least fair amount of survivor mains has been moved to killers for a while, wonder how people gonna play this game.
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@BrightWolf said:
Just more proof that the devs are survivor biased and that they don't even play their own game. If in the off chance they do, which I hightly doubt, they either don't play at high MMR or don't play killer at all.
They are entity biased, not survivor or killer.
The changes usually misses point or horribly balanced.
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It's legit and not toxic but surely a problem for the game
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Good idea, meanwhile allow killers to kill ######### entity when all four survivors has been mori'd, rewarding 100k BP.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202306#Comment_3202306
Starstruck nurse can do that and remove survivor skill from the picture. Exposed nurse shouldn't be a thing.
That literally has nothing to do with this change, because if that is happening people are already lost no matter what.