fulltonon
fulltonon
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I mean if BHVR can make unbreakable basekit or 2 seconds faster wiggling basekit in PTB it wouldn't be hard at all to do so with FOV slider lol
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212292#Comment_3212292
I wouldn't necessarily call it a huge buff but it was a buff for some of the killer roster that people could argue didn't need it like nurse for example, it takes away moments where you could've used power struggle flip flop, or unbreakable during the time someone is being hooked to reset other players, also the troll squads cant abuse the unhookable builds with no mither because if they're all downed they die so no mither sabo is dead officially when that rolls out , now I don't consider it a big buff because nothing really changed gameplay wise except survivors have to be smarter and spread out when a slug starts, the base kit unbreakable takes 45 seconds so anyone considering that a big buff falls into the same category as people assuming killers were over buffed when in reality nothing changed all that much except you have to play smarter against snowball killers and not be trying to troll with sabo and breakout
even 90 seconds unbreakable will still be significant, that's basically like giving 100% hook after few dozen seconds.
Beside that yeah agreed.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212019#Comment_3212019
Yes, I did. I am not someone who is chronically online on the forums, so my complaints weren’t voiced here
So it was at least consistent I guess.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212028#Comment_3212028
I've been using PT and bloodpoint offerings since I had a lot on my survivors and been getting around 50-60k points a match.
I used to play killer before for BP since I had BBQ on all of them but right now with the slow queues on the killer side, no incentives and BBQ not giving extra BP not worth it.
Oh yeah probably better play survivor as long as you have offerings I guess.
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@HugTheHag said:
The difference in terms of escape rates for swf and solos is negligible in the vast majority of cases, the devs have said.
The only difference that makes me think solos should be buffed on par with swf is that solos are constrained to some perks without which the game can be unpleasant, which makes the game less fun for them. They just can't get as creative with builds because they need the information, which is what handicaps them.
The rest is mostly skill. A swf will not be inherently better just because they can communicate when they're not talking about movies or how their day went. The idea that swfs are constantly calling out to each other where they are, where they're going, where killer is, what pallets were broken, etc., is in most cases a myth.
Sure, going against a complete swf (which is, and I can't stress this enough, very rare) can be a bit disorienting because you're not used to your opponents being a little bit coordinated. But it's not unfair either. In most cases you will barely feel the difference.
Dev literally said there is vast difference between SWF and non SWF though...
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STBFL isn't even that popular, and doesn't work that much on most situation, so probably not need a nerf.
If you gonna nerf it that will entirely defeat the purpose of basekit buff itself, and it is actually more closer to 9 stack than 10 stack too.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212013#Comment_3212013
Wish I could say the same. Only reason that keeps me playing is incentives being on. 24h and trying to grind Quentin to p100.
Solo Q has been quite trash still, dcs, suicides, people not taking aggro etc.
If incentives are all that you care I think you should play killers lol
even with 100% bonus I think killers will generally get more BP than survivors on average, especially with periodical party ribbons/flans/cake, and survivor pudding from your own offering pool.
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Btw I wonder if you made same kind of post about spine chill change? that change actually did affect game lot more than flashlight "nerf", and BHVR isn't properly fixed it yet.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3211881#Comment_3211881
Eh, there's just as many good killer walls, just gotta figure out what's what
Yeah that'd work if killers were the only one who can break walls.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3211468#Comment_3211468
A lot of breakable walls open up alot of opportunities for survivors to extend loops
That's a problem though, survivors shouldn't be allowed to make nigh infinite on their will.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3211862#Comment_3211862
Then how about Artist? Or Cenobite? Artist is very strong and Cenobite is pretty decent.
Artist is strong but ultimately "just do this and this every loop" killer, which is quite boring.
Cenobite is decent but nothing more than decent, and his power feels rather bad to use.
So basically wesker is best killer out of all recent ones, even though he is not perfect.
In my opinion of course.
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Emblem is such an outdated and poorly thought out mechanics to the game tbh.
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Because he is playable unlike sadako, and little more skillful/fun than dredge.
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Honestly it's pointless as long as survivors can change loadout in that screen.
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If survivors want to break the wall, that tells map is broken/extremely poorly designed.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
its pretty much Operation health.
You guys wanted it now where getting it how does it feel?
At least I'm grateful they didn't decide to implement that mess right away, and instead made it just fix update.
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Why people gets mad at accessibility change which can be extremely negligible nerfs? I don't get it, seriously.
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lol, have you ever seen a PvP game where win is subjective?
BHVR is just avoiding actually balancing game at that point.
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Scrap basekit unbreakable, now no mither is unique.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209260#Comment_3209260
Yeah, that's a good point. But then they go on the hook uncontested and the killer is going right back to a gen. It seems pretty clear that BHVR still wants killers to be able to slug when they see an opportunity to convert some value from it, but not be able to slug simply because that's what they feel like doing. It is now situational, and that is fine.
Edit: Also, 1 person DCs and Surv's know they lost? They can help the killer end the game REAL fast and go next with this. Which is kind of cool.
...except I feel most survivors try to waste killer's time as much as possible, like how many survivors I've seen in basement...
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209230#Comment_3209230
Rephrase?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209232#Comment_3209232
If it's above your skill then it's not for you.
If you don't realize that the scenario also applies when there are 3 or 2 survivors left, or if that's still above your skill, it's not for you.
Like there is no reason to rescue slugged one, you don't NEED 3 survivors to save a survivor from the hook.
Literally just hide for 45 seconds and they will be back.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209234#Comment_3209234
Really, players suiciding on hook causes your game to crash? A bit of hyperbole there, don't you think.
At least it crashes matches for sure, It's no different from nurse freezing for an entire match or clown quickened all the time.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209215#Comment_3209215
Ok, so this is a minor issue about a minor loop-hole that you want the developers to fix since it infringes on your sense of game fairness. That seems like a lot of programming to be put into a really minor problem? Don't you agree?
Quite an interesting take, I didn't know a problem that can literally break the game was minor.
Also, your response answers literally nothing, but okay.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209207#Comment_3209207
Coordinated rescues can and do go wrong, all the time.
what to rescue when all survivors have unbreakable?
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209076#Comment_3209076
There's already a DC penalty. And judging by the toxic killer gameplay that is causing the DCs and Suicides, these people don't want to play the game, they want to make other player's lives miserable.
So, you basically want players to be FORCED into playing a game where a toxic killer is either face-camping, slugging, tunneling players out of the game or holding players hostage in the corner.
Do you even understand that a game is meant to be fun? Why should anyone be forced to play an unfun game. Isn't there a common killer saying... "Play how you want to play, you're not responsible for someone else's fun".
"For thee, not for me", huh?
Sorry, can I ask for something sensible?
I shouldn't need a reasoning for why abusable mechanics that can be used to circumvent DC penalty shouldn't exist.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209200#Comment_3209200
No, there is video evidence of several killers earning this without survivors just standing there. Additionally, it doesn't have to be all 4 survivors. One can be on the hook and the other three fall apart. Two can be on a hook close together and the other two fall apart. I get that it's not extremely likely to happen, but it's not such an uncommon event and again, several killers can do it legitimately.
Just running away from each other can net at least 45 seconds in basically any situation, I'm sure that will not happen except some random all solo q matches.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209194#Comment_3209194
Not necessarily. I've been in plenty of games as killer and survivor where this has turned around against the killer.
And again, that's an issue for the killers not seriously trying, only thing that can help them from that situation is self pick up perks only, anything else can be countered by bleeding out.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209095#Comment_3209095
There's video evidence of more than one killer doing this.
Yeah, like if all four survivors literally stand still and stay in same place while being injured, any killers can do that.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
For everyone saying 'but you can't slug within 45 sec'
You can, it happens, AND this absolutely rewards scummy play.
one both sides, actually, cause it's not just scummy sluggers benefiting, it's also scummy survs that will dc for s&g.
Yeah it's possible, but does it matter at all? if ALL survivors are bad at chase to the point they all get slugged within 45 seconds (which is 11 seconds for each chase, oh god how), they will lose anyway.
And it's already the case even before the patch.
@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209131#Comment_3209131
Or you have someone with Deliverance on first hook (or they get lucky in general with unhooking themselves), boil-over, flip-flop etc, as rare as they are, were also options.
I had matches that started with slugging at 5 gens and ended with 3 people escaping because that one person got lucky and the killer couldn't repeat the slug. This kind of thing would be gone with this version of the mori.
Honestly:
Making yellow mori basekit is not a bad idea, but make it optional. Let the player decide if they are going for the kill, hook or be merciful. Keep green and yellow moris an offering as they are atm. Scrap the 'bonus bloodpoints' thing, let us instead just sell unwanted items to get more BP.
I understand the idea is to prevent holding the game hostage, but I have seen too many killers trying to slug for the 4k when there's only two survs left, some in matches that thus lasted up to 1 hour.
Countering deliverance is easy, just wait till they reach stage 2, so is boil over or flip-flop: just bleed them out.
So yeah, it's a win unless unbreakable or such exists, it's a killer fault when they lose after that.
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209111#Comment_3209111
I already explained the other reasons in past comments, but you didn't seem to understand. If there was no base UB with this Mori rework, that would remove pretty much all point to hooking survivors and make the killers primary objective to slug.
I think you just haven't played the game at all or didn't know it at this point, you can't explain the difference between slugging before the patch and after the patch, and somehow you can't understand why change is not needed when there is no difference between two.
Killers got no buff for chasing, no buff for information, just QoL change for the pointless waste of time, but still you think "without buffing survivors it would remove all point to hook survivors".
All killers can already slug for 4k, and we don't have base UB either, 99% of survivors don't have any self pick up perks (such as unbreakable, exponential, soul guard and no mither), * but * killers primary objective is NOT slug.
You wonder why? because survivors can heal each other, and that is usually faster than killers down survivor, which stays same even after the patch.
I don't think it's that hard to understand it, you can think with logic right?
The only balance change that is in PTB is free UB for survivors and nothing else, mori rework affects nothing for the matches beside how it ends.
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209044#Comment_3209044
Honestly, a straight survivor buff is kind of needed right now. 61% kill rate is not healthy, and this is not even mentioning overcharge+COB and how it is the most broken combo to exist in this entire game. I don't think the basekit UB should be unlimited, but I'm not sure if just one use per game is enough.
For the third time, I'll explain why the base UB is necessary with the Mori changes.
Oh you finally moved goal post? I will tell you kill rates is not a win rate but whatever I don't care.
And tell me why pressure was "necessary"? survivors running around somewhere killers can't know with capability to one tap rez slugged one was already enough pressure, literally no one complained about "slugging too strong easily 4k matches", not even nurse has done that a lot, you aren't explaining the reason why it was necessary, at all.
If 4 minutes slug is the problem we have a lot better way to fix this without doing ridiculous stuff, keeping it limited is the one, make it only happening in last stand is another.
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It's not, because slugging was already rewarded with insta win before the patch .
There is no difference beside people won't waste time like before, so basekit UB is literally a pure survivor buff, ridiculous one.
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@Wezil said:
If you play Killer, then hook suicides just lets you win games. So what's the issue?
Also...
You really haven't thought this entire thing through have you. If hook suicides are affecting that many games, it means that's an issue with gameplay and hook suicides are the symptom, not the problem. If hook suicides aren't happening that much, then there's no reason to address it.
Huh? people want to play the game, not to win, why can you think "it's not an issue when you are winning"? is that the mindset you have?
Also no, whether it's common or not is irrelevant, keeping FREE disconnect in a game with DC penalty is simply dumb, inconsistent and unhealthy.
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@kizuati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209051#Comment_3209051
They could easily release those as two separate PTBs.
...and I wonder how many people test it?
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209014#Comment_3209014
Slugging is not an 'outdated' mechanic, it's a core mechanic of the game, just like hooking, pallets, loops, etc. It's what allows survivors to interact with each other and is the sole purpose of 'the dying state'. It has multiple perks built around it including Unbreakable, Soul Guard, Flip Flop, Tenacity, No Mither, Boon: Exponential, Adrenaline, Deer Stalker, Knock Out, plus any perks that aid in healing team mates like We'll Make It or Botany Knowledge.
It is now.
Survivors won't have any reason to aid either other in the dying state anymore, because frankly killers either just won't slug, and eliminate any possibility of making a rescue play, or the survivors will know that the slugged survivor has Unbreakable (as basekit) and will feel no pressure to leave their gen. They will be safer working on their gen, and won't risk going down in an attempt to make a save and potentially trigger a finisher mori.
A survivor being on the ground for 45 seconds, not doing a generator, is good for the Killer not Survivors. Slugging is still useful
It is a core method of applying pressure for killers, by having one survivor slugged, you ensure that another survivor has to come to their aid, which equates to two survivors not on gens. At the cost of losing a potential hook.
You can still slug and it still useful. It just doesn't last infinitely.
Is this sort of dynamic, on the spot decision making that is being taken away. There will be no more last minute turn arounds, where everyone is on the ground, but one survivor has Unbreakable or an equivalent perk, and turns a 4K into a 2K.
Why should killers be able to use a technique that survivors have no counter for, unless they bring a perk?
And by taking away a core method of applying pressure, that was in no way toxic specifically because it allowed for rescue plays from survivors, you are reducing killers to tunnel bots. Every valid avenue of pressure you remove form the killers toolkit simply pushes them towards employing more and more cheap, sweaty, more efficient tactics.
With Killers getting a 61% kill rate. The developers have 11% room to play with removing other unfun tactics, like tunneling and face camping.
Boons deleted hit and run, basekit Unbreakable is deleting slugging, there's only camping and tunnelling left.
Camping and Tunneling will probably be addressed next.
BTW, it's Toxic Killer-Players that caused this change. Do you think the developers want new players ran from the game because Killers are 4 man slugging and letting those players bleed out for 4 minutes while nodding their head. If you want someone to blame, blame killer players for making the developers address this.
If toxic killer players is the one caused the change I wish developers to not introduce stupid change like base kit unlimited UB lol.
There is countless more tame method to fix it without doing something ridiculous like this.
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209012#Comment_3209012
I believe that you are misunderstanding what I am stating. The base kit UB is for the downed survivors to pick themselves up while the killer is chasing or looking for the last survivor. This is to create pressure on the killer to make the right decision (pick up slug to confirm hook or take risk to end the game quicker but potentially lose more progress). I also think the Mori rework is a nice QOF change, because looking for that last slug when everyone else is dead can sometimes a while. And it wasn't fair to both the survivor and the killer, as they are wasting time to finish an already done game rather than in the lobby in a new match.
Yeah, base kit UB is straight buff for survivors that is extremely strong and unnecessary, so I'm asking you how it was "necessary".
It was fine without it, and mori rework is nothing more than a QoL change, tell me what is "necessary" about it?
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208992#Comment_3208992
With the new Mori rework, if the killer manages to hook, kill, or down 3 survivors, Last Standing activates. Both the killer and the last standing survivor have heightened FOV. If that survivor unhooks someone or picks someone off the ground, last standing deactivates. If the killer is able to down the survivor while last standing is active, all survivors will automatically be killed and the final survivor will be moried. This 45 sec unbreakable makes it so that last standing survivor could have a chance if there are slugged teammates. Without the base unbreakable being added, this would be another straight killer buff, which would increase the kill rate; which is already higher than BHVR wants it.
Before the mori rework, if the killer manages to hook, kill, or down 3 survivors, and down 4th survivor, all survivors have no method to recover themselves unless unbreakable or something exists, which is equivalent to killing every survivor.
You've been bamboozled by the way developers worded it, literally nothing has changed beside it is now instawin instead of all slug/hook situation regardless of deliverance or unbreakable, which is extremely negligible because 99% of survivors won't use it, and deliverance can be ignored by bleeding them out or just looking at it until it reaches second stage.
Think twice, and tell me the difference between "all survivors are near-dead without any way to recover them" and "killing all survivors instantly" if you can.
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@hatchetChugger said:
its kind of necessary with the upcoming mori rework. To prevent killers from constantly slugging to win the game at 1 hook stage and 5 gens
That will still happen before the patch, bleeding out or not killers are "winning" either way.
When unbreakable or whatever didn't exists there were no way to win from all slug situation, unless killers intentionally let survivors do such.
So that can't be a legit reason despite BHVR said so.
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This is ridiculous how many people think penalty does nothing, have you even seen a DbD without no DC penalty? that was hell of a game.
So yeah, punishing it WILL reduce throwing a lot, action is necessary and has to be done quickly.
I don't get why it takes so long for BHVR to fix this, when it is extremely game breaking matter.
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I don't know how we should define win but saying "win doesn't exists, it differs between every person!" in PvP game seems extremely silly and stupid, I suppose it should be changed.
If win doesn't exists, balance doesn't exists too, and every changes are pointless.
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Ripley killer and xenomorph survivor? that'd do great.
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@Wezil said:
I absolutely think it's a good idea. Slugging is just not fun for anyone in the game and this change will still allow for pressure with downing survivors but also removes the horrible 4 minute/4 man slugging that's certain toxic killers have been doing since game inception. Killers can do just fine without slugging and tunneling after 6.1, which is giving a 61% kill rate to killers, but they are refusing to adapt and are continuing to do these tactics that make the game completely unfun.
The developers are trying to remove these tactics that are driving players from this game, which is a good thing. I am actually surprised anyone is finding this to be a bad change.
You don't need unlimited unbreakable to remove 4 man slugging, and do note that kill rates is not an win rate AND also with current slugging.
They choose worst way to fix that "problem", basically adding more issue than fix.
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I've seen plenty of 100% or 50% of killers in a day, guess it's rather balanced unlike pre patch.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208394#Comment_3208394
I am not new to survivor nor killer. I just take breaks.
Honestly, no different.
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@Jago said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207276#Comment_3207276
But the Moris offering basically tells you to slug for a 4K.
Current emblem system already telling you to do such, I don't get it.
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@bobateo said:
With the mori change, not have basekit unbreakable would mean that UB would pretty much become a required perk. Builds that allowed for fast pickup would also start to fall if not fall into highly necessary. I wouldn't be a fan a game change that, just to have a shot at escaping, would make certain perks more or less required.
Whether or not the time length for the base UB needs to be longer, or if it needs to be change to a limited number of times per match is definitely in question.
No, with or without mori change everyone being slugged is already a loss for survivors, if UB becomes necessary after the rework, it has to be necessary before rework.
Their excuse is simply flawed and incorrect.
@Rovend said:
If the new mori system goes live with the current slugging, every killet with good slugging potential will be A or S tier inmediately.
Any consistent starstruck build will be broken.
Nurse and blight would be even stronger.
Unbreakable would be a must like pre 6.1.0 borrowed time
No killer will be better because if they can slug all survivors they are already winning before or after the mori rework, that is just wrong.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207464#Comment_3207464
Does it matter? : D
It matters as much as speed boost of dark theory.
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@e1ix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206423#Comment_3206423
I think these stats only prove that if you practice enough and become really good at the game, you can beat the majority of solo queue/ SWF teams. I don't think these stats should be considered for balancing arguments because it's just one person. If the majority of killers at high MMR are having this high a winrate, then we can look at those numbers and see what can/ should be changed.
You better keep in mind otz himself said he tend to play in "casual hour" too, the time where not strongest survivors are the majority.
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#########, people somehow started saying "SWF makes no difference" again?
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207398#Comment_3207398
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207436#Comment_3207436
You don't ever 'have to do anything'. If you are 'having to slug' more than 1 person for more than 45 seconds, you are being greedy, simple as that.
Okay, you are simply incorrect then.
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@C3Tooth said:
Me enjoy mid MMR by 8 hooks and let people go, depends on how good survivors.
That's lowest MMR rather than mid I bet.