fluffybunny
fluffybunny
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For killer perks: the first one is fine. Puppet's Goal would just be an aura version of Hangman's trick. Not sure if that would make it better, but Hangman's trick doesn't usually get used. Hex: Foxy's Chill, so if you're chasing someone or approaching, you get a one hit down?
For survivor perks: Some people were wanting a finding flashlights perk, though maybe it should give you a purple flashlight on your first search and have an affect on flashlights specifically? Handyman would be like Botany for Sabo. Keys to Success, how would that work? Like would it use durability of the key? It would be rather pointless to upgrade purple to pink and most don't play with green ones. I don't know if people would use this.
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Just adjust your play style. I wouldn't say dodge.
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You aren't. People don't know what farming is, apparently.
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the Us are closed eyes, actually. xD Wrote that wrong.
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@TreemanXD It's just a face. the Os are eyes and Ws mouths. Us are closed mouths.
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@TrueKn1ghtmar3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/473191#Comment_473191
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/473173#Comment_473173
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/473149#Comment_473149
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/473144#Comment_473144
Lol survive mains jumping to conclusions never once said I don't play survivor I actually play plenty of survivor and make it out quite often without the help of the second chance perks to need them is to admit you are
A. Toxic
B. Suck at the game
Take your pick
Lol survive mains jumping to conclusions
Who's the one jumping to conclusions? What rank are you and do you play solo? And the thought behind using perks is to understand them. If you want to better understand a counter to a killer or a perk they use, you play as the killer to better understand them or use a perk to see what people do in response to it. Experimenting also helps. See what works and what doesn't.
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@Peanits or another mod can you tell us where to send it?
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@Detective_Jonathan said:
She’s getting a ballet outfit to satisfy all the weebs so they can uwu/owo all over the place
We will owo/uwu to victory! >:c @Detective_Jonathan
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@Milo said:
@fluffybunny the you need to not go into a chase for 10 seconds. But the chase lasting a certain amount of time could also be cool
@Milo I think both being a requirement would make it more accurate to if you actually escaped the chase or not. I'd be for it. ^^
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@Milo said:
If it was "Escape and don't go into a chase for 10 seconds" then okay.
Chase system is really not good. That's why everyone asked for Lithe to be changed
@Milo You mean the chase would be longer than 10 seconds or to not go into chase 10 seconds later?
Yeah that and none of the other require you to be in chase.
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I don't think adjusting the numbers on the door is the answer.
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It took a while for them to give Legion a rework. Give them some time. I believe they want to give it some time to see how it is when people adapt to it. They'll probably know what needs to be tweaked when they see that.
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@A_Crow said:
My bookmarks said there were over 1000 new posts here...
It's over 900!
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Look. If this is really such an issue then there are other solutions that make it easier but still Killer sided. Mostly involving making the gates easier to open. The important thing of course being to make sure that it doesn't end up effecting the 4v1 situation too much. Some examples are:
- Base gate opening time is now 25 seconds but each dead survivor reduces the time by 5 seconds. Pros: Has a gradual rather than sudden effect, allows for more pressure in the 4v1 situation Cons: Punishes survivors for doing well and rewards survivors for sacrificing each other.
- The gate takes 15 seconds for the last survivor only to open. Pros: Mitigates the gate issue without effecting non 1v1 situations. Cons: Is a sudden and arbitrary feeling solution, these types of solutions have a poor effect on the learning curve. Increasing the EGC timer in this situation has the same pros and cons
- Having a special basement chest that always contains a Special Key that can open the hatch but can't exit the trial (in addition to the normal basement chest, they can be color coded). Pros: Adds a secondary objective (but not in the game solvey way people need unfortunately), allows for preparation to solve the EGC, makes the basement more interesting. Cons: Effects non-EGC situations (Unless we make it only work during the EGC), can screw over the last survivor if someone else gets the key first and then dies, doesn't work if they are carrying an item already (unless you consider that a pro)
- Have the Hatch reopen during the last 20 seconds of the EGC. Pros: Prevent's the Killer from blocking the exit gate (like in your video) in most situations (not all though). Cons: Can screw the Killer out of a Kill in some situations, is very RNG based and not reliable at all.
Your last bullet point could be an interesting idea. ^^ @NuclearBurrito
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/472234#Comment_472234
... To make the game more of a challenge for people who are especially good at Survivor?
Like, what other reason could there possibly be?
They should give it a BP increase if that's actually what they're going to go with.
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@liquidlight said:
Anyway, here's the video again since I did remove it from above. Don't mention the DC's... they don't matter because this is about last survivor and standing no chance in this situation. There was no time to go to the other gate. And saying I was only a second off from getting the gate open is bogus. I played the best I could in the moment to survive. In retrospect you can tear anything apart. In the moment, it's a different story.
It's true in retrospect you can tear anything apart, but part of growth is acknowledging when you did something incorrectly or could have done something better. The scenario isn't a good one, but those kinds are hopefully far and few between. You didn't even get a chance to look around before everyone DCed and the killer wasn't having any mercy at all.
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What do you mean?
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It isn't shaming anyone, so you should be fine. It's nice to find light anywhere you can find it. I had someone the other day tell me I was doing a really good job as killer and to keep up. Hearing that after and between all the pointless toxicity is refreshing. It's nice to see from either side since toxicity has just seemed to increase for both as of recently.
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@TrueKn1ghtmar3 said:
Yea I don't like the idea of becoming a sweaty 10million chance toxic survivor
You should play both sides. Not only will it help you understand both sides (how to counter and where they're coming from), but it can be a good change of pace.
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@liquidlight said:
Wow. You guys will make an excuse for everything. I didn't linger on the gen (I'll re-upload the vid when I edit the names out because I realize it showed them at the end) and the hatch closed when I was on my way to a gate (I wasn't sure which to go to because I didn't know where the killer/hatch was) and I went straight to it the moment End Game started. I had no chance because the killer was too fast and could go from one gate to the next easily because they were close together. It was an impossible escape.
Hindsight is 50/50. I didn't watch the video, but I can understand how gates being near to each other can put you in a no-win scenario.
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The tunnels could disallow people with strong m2 attacks (seeing people's concern at the start). I like this idea, though! c:
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@TheRoyalOwl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/473072#Comment_473072
Dude it's second chance, it gives you another chance after you failed.
DH you failed to keep away from the killer so get to boost a little ahead for a SECOND CHANCE.
Deliverance you failed to keep from being hooked so you get off the hook for a SECOND CHANCE.
Unbreakable you failed you stay in the injured state and got downed, and the killer left you on the ground. You get up off the ground for a guess what? SECOND CHANCE.
Timing doesn't mean that much as ever second chance perk as some to it be useful.
Like I said, the only one that stood out to me as a second chance was the DH one, though I personally don't consider it as such and don't believe any of those perks to be bad except for MoM. I already gave my reasoning as to why.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/473040#Comment_473040
14 is close to 16-17. The rank 18 didn't do it lol. Why d people act like this game is literally supposed to put rank 15 only against rank 15 and rank 7 only against rank 7?
Generally less experienced people will struggle against experienced people @brokedownpalace. The thought behind it is that people will be placed in rankings where they belong.
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She's getting a ballad outfit. Hoping for the bunny Feng one day.
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@TheRoyalOwl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/473047#Comment_473047
Besides that they most literally give you a second chance in a dire situation.
DH ---> In a chase and you are injured and you use it to either close a gap to an escape route or dodge a killers attack.
Deliverance ----> allows you to get off a hook getting you back into the game like having adrenaline while downed.
Unbreakable ---> let's you get back into the fray, without needing others help.
Like I said, it's like a mini SB and in many cases, gets used incorrectly. It's heavily reliant on latency and timing, which not everyone has the second down well. I wouldn't consider it a second chance perk, but I wouldn't consider Head On a second chance perk, too. It's not the intent of it, but it has a similar one time affect and both can be somewhat inconsistent. Of those three, this is the closest to the "second time" perk you're talking about, though I wouldn't consider DH a second time perk, but something to be used in chase like Brutal Strength for killer.
Deliverance - not only are you wasting a perk slot on a one-time perk that can only be used on the first hook, you need to save someone, too. People often rush the hooks, so gl doing that. Like I said, it's mostly to counter the solo experience of being left on the hook and dying because no one can be bothered to save. It isn't a second chance perk 'cause that would be like saying survivors only have one hook. It's getting you off the hook and being self sustaining, but it's by no means free or a second chance perk.
Unbreakable is, once again, about self reliance, basically. It's about getting up off the ground by yourself because no one else can. It isn't a second chance perk unless you're suggesting you belong on the ground once you get downed. It's a perk to work around for sluggers (who aren't very common, mind you).
You including these two makes me wonder what you believe second chance perks to be tbh. That's like including Bloodhound or Predator as aura reading perks.
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It's good for pressure, though the location aspect is where the true power lies tbh. You hit that bright Meg and suddenly you know where Blendette is hiding lol. Thanta's good with Legion, though it still needs to be tweaked slightly for better numbers. Nurses is good if you bring along Thanta since it encourages healing from what I've seen. It also forces survivors to waste time, which is good.
I can't vote for some reason. It gave me an error.
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@TheRoyalOwl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/473033#Comment_473033
So basically the survivor almost always wins?
I mean you can gaurd that one door but what if they find the hatch or just do the other door?
So you go to the other door to find out, Oh never mind they were just waiting at the open door for you to leave.
Just accept that when you are the last survivor the odds are stacked against you for obvious reasons, and it should be unlikely you make it out, again for obvious reasons.
One exit gate is powered
In other words only one door would be powered so "I mean you can gaurd that one door but what if they find the hatch or just do the other door?" is irrelevant.
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@NMCKE said:
The only thing we need for the EGC is a maximum/minimum proximity distance with the exit gates tbh.
I agree with this. It's fine otherwise.
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/472621#Comment_472621
I think you forget that they remove the ability to grab a survivor out of the hatch hence why it would be a free escape
@Aari_Piggy66 Liquid's idea is to reintroduce the hatch grab and allow it to remain open, but activate the end game collapse after the third person's death (so you'll be able to open the gates, too).
EDIT: Actually from the sounds of it they want to reset it to how it was before, but add an collapse end game timer? I think that's actually be nearly impossible to survive depending on how many gens are left and so on if the timer's the same.
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@TheRoyalOwl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/472997#Comment_472997
Decisive strike, MoM, Borrowed time, dead hard, adrenaline, unbreakable, and Deliverance.
If you consider exhaustion perks second chance than you can add a few more.
Not 12 but still more than killer
Dead Hard, Unbreakable, Deliverance aren't second chance perks. DH is a dodge, which can be denied and relies heavily on timing. It's like a controlled SB that doesn't go very far in the best of situations. Deliverance is a gimmick perk that gets you tunneled 'cause how dare you try to get an achievement or bring a counter to playing solo. I can't believe you. Also you'll likely not be able to pull it off, anyway. If you're caught before a save, it's a dead perk slot. If someone's right on you for the save, dead perk slot. Unbreakable is a gimmick perk to get you off the ground in the rare occasion of a slug. @TheRoyalOwl
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@liquidlight said:
@fluffybunny The fact that they just killed the 3 other survivors and now have a chance at the 4th shows that they are, indeed, the power role and in no way is the survivor guaranteed the escape just because the hatch can't be closed. And it's not "more than enough chance" but it is more and that's fair in comparison to what it is now. Killers still caught and killed the last survivor in the past before End Game and complained about the stand-off which the timer eliminates.
And who says you're not supposed to be alone in a 1v1. That's the definition of 1v1 and some survivors worked their A off to get there. Yes, I'm aware some probably didn't but those won't pip. And it would still be very hard to escape with the hatch remaining open.
The fact that they killed 3 survivors and the last is getting a place where they can just jump into is weakening that "power" role and in most cases, people have to sweat to get everyone as killer. They have to have good add-ons and perks and be decent at looping and so on as well. It is more than enough of a chance because it's left open. Survivors can just quickly jump in. If they leave for a nearby door and the killer follows them, they can just SB back.
Killers still caught and killed the last survivor in the past before End Game and complained about the stand-off which the timer eliminates.
A lot of times they would slug for it and mind you, before they could only open the doors if they got all 5 gens. Meaning they were already close to winning. Otherwise they had to wait it out to see who got bored first.
And who says you're not supposed to be alone in a 1v1.
This isn't a 1v1 game. This is a 1v4 game with 1 power role and 4 weaker roles. Meaning you don't want to be alone against the power role. I'm not sure how this is hard to understand. Most survivors who work to get there typically end up dying doing so 'cause there's always someone who camps the hatch instead of do the gens. I've had games where I ended up being the last one out, but we got all the gens done and someone got downed. I hid and tried to wave them over and went to hide when I realized the killer was following them. They got picked up and placed on the hook and I waited for the killer to go find the hatch. I was able to open the door and make it out in time, but just barely. It shouldn't be an easy feat to get out when you're the last one, especially when it's just you and the killer and the doors aren't even powered yet.
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@FSB75 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/472968#Comment_472968
Absolutely true. This was the original "hatch stand off". That's why slugging the 3rd survivor became so popular. Hook the 3rd survivor and they will suicide because the 4th survivor is standing on the damn hatch.
Honestly, I can't tell you how many times 2 gens were complete, 2 survivors left, and neither one will work a gen, heal each other, or come out of hiding. It was a question of which survivor messes up first and dies.
The hatch stand off was never truly between a survivor and a killer. It was always between the last 2 survivors. That's the TRUTH!
I only suicide if I think the person deserves hatch or if it's a friend. Like if we're both trying and I know we are, it's fine if I happen to be caught first. It was usually between survivor and killer, though. If another survivor was camping the hatch or hiding and waiting for the other to die, it would often lead to games going on far too long 'cause everyone's hiding and waiting for the other to die.
@liquidlight I was speaking from the perspective of a survivor. If someone's camping hatch, they need to earn it.
I realize I didn't address if there are two survivors doing the stand-off, so sorry, but iron maiden exists now to help with locker hoppers.
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@liquidlight said:
@fluffybunny The way I said doesn't make it an easy out nor does it in anyway say survivors are more entitled and I don't even see how it comes off that way. The only thing that changes is the hatch can't be closed. The timer immediately puts the remaining survivor at a disadvantage and they would still have to work for the win. I think it's worthy of testing out.
Hatch is typically seen as an easy out. Currently, you could know where the hatch is and wait at the door furthest away, do gens and pressure the door furthest away from hatch, stealth over to the door and wait for killer to pass or sneak by, use a key to escape. EDIT: You can use hatch too. Forgot to mention
Killer can currently close the hatch to look at the doors. If this changes, the remaining survivor would have more than enough chance. If the killer leaves hatch and hits them, they can get a sprint burst back to it. If survivor goes to pressure the door, the killer would either need to leave the hatch to check doors and risk the survivor sneaking past and hopping in, or hope the survivor is waiting with them.
Mind you, killer is supposed to be the power role. You're not supposed to want to be alone in a 1 v 1 with them as survivor. If everyone dies well before you have a realistic chance of escaping, it should be really hard to escape.
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@liquidlight said:
As far as locker roulette goes... there is a perk for that. Iron maiden.
What I was saying with that is that it's often the survivor hiding in lockers and waiting for you to die who gets the hatch.
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@liquidlight said:
The definition of a free escape is not what you said @ShyN3ko because as much as you don't want to believe it that's actually incredibly rare. Most people play the game to... play the game.
@fluffybunny I could say the same to you. Killers aren't entitled to that last kill. At least the method I suggested makes it more fair. Right now, it's not and trying to say otherwise is a lie. The solo survivor is at a huge disadvantage.
I'm a survivor. I often play solo. If my whole team falls, I'm not entitled to a free win. I'm not entitled to something remaining open or an easy out. I need to work for it. How it currently is is fair imo. We can talk about spawning of stuff such as doors or totems being rough, but there's still work arounds and there's still the hope and the possibility of escaping, even in dire situations.
As I said before, if the survivors all die before end game actually starts, they should be put at a disadvantage. Their team has essentially lost. One person escaping is losing. Therefore, they should work for it to prove they deserve the escape, despite their team all falling before the end game could start. Often the people who make it until last are the ones killing their team or playing silent locker roulette.
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@ShyN3ko said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/472651#Comment_472651
Its a free escape, because survivors could hide the complete match in lockers.
And then they must find the hatch and then they escape.
This survivor didnt do something.
He just camp the hatch,
but he can escape.
And the killer cant grab survivors out the hatch.
If the killer cant close the hatch, then the survivor can just go to it.
And the killer cant do anything about it.
@ShyN3ko For clarity, I believe liquidlight has the idea of making end game start the second the second to the last person dies and the hatch to remain open so the killer needs to choose what to pressure. Therefore they wouldn't be able to hide in lockers. Also I believe his idea included the ability to grab the survivor still.
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You aren't entitled to escaping, especially if your whole team died. This is an asymmetric game. That means one power role and four smaller roles. Whether you consider your team a "team" or not doesn't matter. Your side lost by that point, so escaping should be something that takes more tactics and skills. If you bring in keys or find keys, you could always reopen the hatch and if you're aware of where the killer is and where the hatch is, you can plan out your route accordingly.
You being the last person alive doesn't make you deserving of a win or the best survivor, either. I see far too often one person trying to do the one-two generators left and the other one camping hatch or just not doing anything 'cause they don't wanna be chased and downed. They need to work for their escape.
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DC should have a time punishment. To a lot of people, losing a pip can actually be ideal. Means for easier killer/survivors and shorter wait time depending on the rank.
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@holywhitetrash said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/468011#Comment_468011
just saying none of the survivors made it out, so they would probably be the brain dead ones here
getting the gens done while someone camps is super easy, even if this killer had the fastest downs 3 gens should have popped during the first hook and the last 2 plus the exit gate should have popped on the second survivor hook
Depends on how early that DC was. No one had Kindred and I highly doubt they were on comms, so it was likely they didn't know the survivor was being camped. And if the DC happened really early on (like before first gen), that would put survivors in a place where they may be unlikely to finish on time. The killer also had ruin and if that persisted most of the game, it can really turn around the tides.
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It isn't a Legion problem, but a lack of punishment. Got caught too soon? DC. Don't like the map? DC. Don't like the killer? DC. Legion is okay thanks to the speed boost and removing things they can cheese with can open them up to getting significant or important buffs down the road.
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The useless ones usually get the hatch most of the time. Work for the escape. Your team lost, you don't get a free pass 'cause you hid in a closet while the other person actually tried.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/471480#Comment_471480
That's lovely, but only DS and BT have anything to do with tunnelling.
MoM is a free extra hit without a condition to trigger it EXCEPT that you aren't playing a killer with an effective method of downing. It only punishes the killers who already have the most trouble managing time and map control and it basically doesn't affect the others.
Dead Hard also has nothing to do with tunnelling. You can say "fake it out" all you like but that isn't just some foolproof magic solution. Many of the smarter survivors don't rely on it dodging the hit, but instead use it to reach pallets that they would be hit before and extend the chase indefinitely. There certainly are situations where you can get them to whiff it, but there's so many more where you rely on a crucial hit and know that it can never land because of DH.
Adrenaline also has nothing to do with tunnelling, it just grants a free health state and double sprint burst, further crippling the killer when it's just ticked into the part of the match which is already an incredibly bad point for the killer.
Most of these perks aren't inherently broken, the issue comes from the fact that any survivor can stack as many as they like together and add up tonnes of free hits. Not only that but there's nothing preventing multiple survivors running the same scummy build. It's a game that relies a LOT on time management for most killers, and perks like these completely throw that off with little to no consequence. Hell, even back in the day DS was intended to be less effective if you weren't the obsession, now OoO is the only survivor obsession perk that actually changes based on the obsession status.
This is the exact same reason a debuff like 'exhaustion' exists, to prevent the stacking of abusive perks that would break the game if they could be used together. Free-extra-hit perks need their own debuff to prevent multiple of them being run together to huge success with very little requirement for the survivor player.
but instead use it to reach pallets that they would be hit before and extend the chase indefinitely.
DH has a cool down that doesn't go down while running. It can't be used indefinitely and a chase shouldn't last indefinitely if you're taking your loops correctly and knowing what areas you should pressure and when to peel off.
Adrenaline also has nothing to do with tunnelling, it just grants a free health state and double sprint burst, further crippling the killer when it's just ticked into the part of the match which is already an incredibly bad point for the killer.
It's only really useful while being chased, though, and during end game. You die early (like getting to end game for killer), it's useless. You aren't being chased and are fully healed, won't come into play. If you're chasing one person and everyone else happens to be hurt, it doesn't really impact what you're currently doing if everyone heals, unless you can't manage to down the person before then and NOED is comparable to Adrenaline, except it isn't a reward for doing well, but just something to help killers who got to end game (a losing position).
Hell, even back in the day DS was intended to be less effective if you weren't the obsession, now OoO is the only survivor obsession perk that actually changes based on the obsession status.
You should know that was often the worse, though. When there was a surprise DS, it could completely throw the game. With an Obsession DS, you can at least juggle or gauge out how you want to handle the situation. And actually now you become the obsession if you have DS and use it. Have you forgotten that or just didn't know? So that would mean you could be the surprise Rancor without even knowing, for instance.
Free-extra-hit perks need their own debuff to prevent multiple of them being run together to huge success with very little requirement for the survivor player.
The only free hit perk is MoM, unless you're advocating for another perk like it, which I don't think you are. MoM does need some adjustments (seen people say it should be rewarded for three escapes after being hit, which I think is a good idea), but old DS was far worse. It was often denying early game pressure or at least lessening it and to be stunned after dropping someone is far worse than just having to wipe your blade. You can turn around and immediately pressure something else or continue chasing. If they heal, you can see them. If they don't, they're one-hit. I just think it needs something more to activate it.
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@Perelie said:
Deadhard and Borrowed Time. With all these combined you get survivors who can loop indefinitely and none of your hits matter.
It's not fun, it's frustrating and feels completely unfair.
BT comes into affect when you're trying to farm a person, essentially. If someone is unhooking in a position where you can get a free hit, it's safe to assume BT and is a poor play on your part. DH actually takes skill to pull off correctly. That's like complaining about Huntress 'cause a skilled Huntress can be very tough. You're complaining about your hits meaning nothing, but skill should mean something, too.
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@BoredByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/471206#Comment_471206
Yes, it is! The game wasn't made with the intention to body block. I find it hilarious people think it's part of the game, kind of sad really.
I love all the vote downs i'm getting, really demonstrates the mindset of the children who play this game.
Body blocking isn't cheating. It isn't reportable. Check the rules. Holding the game hostage is against the rules and while they had no means to escape, you can just swing to get to the hook or get loose.
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I like this idea. c:
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If I'm camped, tunneled or BMed in anyway, I sometimes won't give GG. I'm also that person who'll die first and spectate to see how the match plays out and to say gg, though.
EDIT: It's all luck whether you get poor sports or not. Some games I'll get people staying behind to berate me and some games I get compliments or thanks. Really depends.
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@smappdooda said:
Here is my question: why were two survivors hanging out or running into that area with no escape to get in that situation to begin with? Seems like really bad planning on their part to me.
@smappdooda Someone got hooked in the basement, someone came over to save, and the nurse knew where to block to make sure they couldn't get out. Isn't rocket science.
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Thank you for sharing! I really like the ideas regarding the buttons and stab wounds study.
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Please note that the end game before was never bully proof and the survivors would hold the game hostage and bully the killer in some occasions. You should be leaving when a door is open. It should feel tight and tense, trying to escape in time. Otherwise the ending is a joke.
Learn time management. If the killer is waiting to hook someone or you get past a certain point, you should leave by default. BW can trap you inside (as it had done before) and because the end game actually means something now and isn't heavily survivor sided, the killer can do things to win against survivors even while in end game.