dugman
dugman
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@cburton311 said:
The win condition should be any survivor that escapes by powering main doors and going through them. Draw would be an escape through the hatch. Killer victory would be no one escapes through the doors.
I think this would promote teamwork amongst the survivors, and i think the razor's edge of balance that is needed to get an average of 2 escapes and 2 kills is ridiculously difficult.
Actually if you want to fully promote survivors working together then their win condition should be nobody dies. If they win if anybody escapes then you can have a lone wolf survivor just hide all match and hopefully get out and all the survivors “win” if they do. Forcing all survivors to live to be their win condition though would make altruism toward the team much more important, if a teammate is about to die you need to do all you can to prevent it.
Honestly the game really should have been designed from the beginning with the survivors clearly being a cohesive team and having a clear win/loss objective. Semi-cooperative games rarely work well and DbD isn’t an exception in that regard. It’s really the one main design flaw I don’t like about the game. Unfortunately it’s way too late to go changing that fundamental aspect of the gameplay at this, we’re stuck with the game being built around semi-cooperative survivors and the problems that result from it.
Personally, as far as the original question goes, I agree with a bunch of people above that, to me, if I get 3-4 kills as a killer I consider it a win, if I only get 0-1 it’s a loss, and 2 is a draw. That fits with the way MMR works and also fits with the dev’s design goal of 1-3 kills being the most common results and 2 kills being the average result. And I think in general that’s also in line with my results - if I outplay the survivors I usually get 3-4 kills, if I play badly I get 0-1 kills, and if we both play well 1-3 kills is the usual result.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904625#Comment_2904625
I can already see this is pointless.
At least we agree on something.
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Most killers are probably pretty much fine as is. As far as big things go
- Sadako hasn’t had her normal post-release full balance pass yet. Typically that happens a few months after release, so not this coming mid-chapter but maybe in June-July? My guess is she’ll get a slight buff but probably not a huge one, I’m guessing she’s on par with Wraith or slightly better overall based on the people that are actually maining her.
- Trapper is still kind of weak but had a rework last year I think it was? So not likely to see more Trapper buffs any time soon.
- Freddy might be due for a new pass? It’s been a long time since they gave him a makeover.
- I could see Twins getting tweaked at some point since I think they’re one of the least used killers and they may want to revamp them a bit if they want to make them more popular. (Not so much a buff since apparently Twins do well at high MMR, but rather something to make Twins players feel more enticed to do a lot of switching back and forth and chasing lots of survivors versus doing a camping strategy where they hook someone and leave Victor nearby to be radar on it and drive off rescuers.)
- I know they’re actively looking at ways to steer killers away from just standing around a hook. They just never found a solution they liked that didn’t break something else apparently. For instance I could see them maybe looking at using Pyramid Head’s Cage system with hooks where if you hook someone the hooks moves elsewhere on the map. But who knows exactly what they’re been trying in that regard? Either way any change along these lines would impact killers like Bubba that seem to do the camping strategy more often than average killers.
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The thing is standing around the hook for two minutes if the other survivors aren’t coming for a rescue is typically not a good strategy, you’re better off spending that time getting a second down and pressuring the others off the gens directly so that only one survivor at most is doing a gen at a time hopefully. If you can get into the cycle of having one downed or hooked, one being chased and a third going for a heal or rescue with only one left on gens then you are in a much better position as killer than if you have one on a hook and three on gens.
That’s not to say standing at a hook is never ever useful, if a survivor is pretty close to dying on hook for instance you may as well stay there a few seconds to make sure it happens. And Bubba for example can stop hook trades entirely so gets a bit more benefit from it. But most killers in most cases are better off being more proactive.
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@FeryGEN said:
Please add Toggle switch for auto-use of the previous offering. At least for bloodpoint offerings
Yeah, I never understood why it remembers your add-ons but not your offering.
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The link to the ticketing system is here
https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=360000942011
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Yeah, that’s still bannable. Intentionally lagging the game to make things difficult for opponents is considered an exploit.
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@Cameragosha said:
Sadly , devs will not buff her anymore.
They didn’t say they’re not going to buff her any more, they said they’re still in the process of reviewing and testing her for her first balance pass.
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Ok, so how were they intentionally creating lag?
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Yes, lag switching is bannable.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904705#Comment_2904705
That’x cool, I disagree though
Midwich looks great, its gameplay just makes me less then energised
Aside from the look, the things I like about it are
- Most of the pallets are gameable. There’s two or maybe three safe pallets but otherwise if someone drops a pallet you can typically still try and catch them after the pallet is dropped.
- Breaking the walls is actually useful on that map, all the walls either weaken potential loops or just give you better access between levels for patrols.
- The layout isn’t as confusing as some of the other indoor maps, it’s mostly straightforward which is nice if you’re like me and can’t remember every minor detail of every map.
If I had to pick the one dislike, it might be simply that the long hallways can sometimes be a little meh for chases when a survivor decides to just keep literally running forward down them for 20 seconds. Fortunately most of the time the chases quickly go into the side rooms or center courtyard where it gets more interesting.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904669#Comment_2904669
To be fair, very few if anyone would be really upset if RPD and Midwich were removed from the map pool
I actually like Midwich as a killer, it’s one of my favorite maps. 🙂
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904669#Comment_2904669
That's one of the reasons I like the idea more than a flat out removal tbh. Nobody wants to play on Midwich from the survivor side, or RPD/Game on the killer side? Probably a reason for that let's do some research.
To use a slightly flawed analogy let's look at Paladins. Azaan, absolutely busted champion, has a ban rate of 71%. The next highest ban rate for any character is 43%. Gave the devs some info that Azaan desperately needed to be toned down beyond their initial nerfs, and he's being hit again next patch
Come to think of it, I don’t remember ever seeing the devs talk about map offerings in general and what they think the benefits are. Maybe they have this “we like to see which maps are picked a lot for data” thing, or maybe it’s just they know “a lot of players like to use offerings so they must be popular and worth keeping” (which that latter reason is still problematic if the reason they’re popular is that they’re broken for example.)
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904590#Comment_2904590
New idea: map offerings now guarantee one map you won't be sent to, instead of guaranteeing a map you will be sent to. Thoughts?
That’s better than the current version but still probably not great. You’ll probably just end up with a bunch of killers running the Ban RPD offering and survivors running the Ban Midwich offering or something like that.
The only good thing I can think of with offerings either way is they might give data to the devs over which maps are popular or unpopular. So if your system above was in place the devs could see at a glance that “hey, everybody is banning RPD”, for example, and have some data to actually show it’s not popular for some reason. (Honestly I don’t personally have a big issue with RPD other than that I don’t know the layout too well but I know it’s really unpopular with other killers on the forums.)
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A big issue with map offerings is they exacerbate any abusable flaws in a specific map. For example when Boil Over first got buffed a couple months ago and there were spots on RPD and a couple other maps where it was literally impossible to hook someone, it would not have been nearly as frequently seen except that players could use map offerings to specifically force the match into those exploitable maps. The problem with Boil Over would still be there obviously but the number of matches it was a factor would be much lower without the offerings.
That ability to intentionally set up exploitable situations is a huge downside to having map offerings that I think outweighs whatever minor benefit they might have for the game.
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There’s also the modern spinoff of the headless biker
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@legacycolt said:
CoH: Snuff it
DH: Bait it out easily
IW: Open your eyes while playing
Shadow Step: Snuff it
As far as Dead Hard goes, the stronger use of it is for distance, “baiting it out” only helps against a survivor trying to use it to dodge a swing but does nothing against survivors using it to gain distance to reach a vault or pallet.
Also yeah, you can see survivors no duh, but sound is just as important in this game as sight so not being able to hear survivors is a strong effect. I’m not saying Iron Will is overpowered but it is definitely one of the best survivor perks in my opinion.
Shadowstep is ok, not great but as a killer I do occasionally lose track of or miss spotting a survivor because of it. Perfectly find as a perk.
CoH I think at this point is a solid perk, it might still be overpowered or might not I’m not sure? Self healing for the whole group is powerful no doubt but it does take over 20 seconds per self heal on top of the time it takes to place or replace the Boon which is quite a long time not being on a gen if it happens frequently. I have definitely seen games where survivors were so focussed on self healing and replacing this totem that they lost because they instead should have just stuck on gens.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904162#Comment_2904162
What point is there defending gens if you can never chase a survivor and down them? you will always lose the attrition war assuming the survivors are not awful.
Who said you can never down them? If you can never down a survivor that’s an issue with you, not the game.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904166#Comment_2904166
Of course, you take a bet that they don't have UB or CoH to remove your pressure instantly.
Even when they have those it still works because Unbreakable is once per game and CoH still takes them time to run off and heal which is time they aren’t on gens. Obviously you still need to be cognizant of CoH and take the boon out when you find it but otherwise the tactic does work.
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@WesCravenFan said:
Exactly how much time and match data do you need to realize her Condemnation is utterly worthless?
I got a Survivor to full Condemnation ONCE in the entire time I've been playing her, even with Ring Drawing and spamming teleports with the Iridescent Tape.
And that one time I got him to the red oreo of death the Survivor managed to use a tape before I could down him. They are not even exposed.
You need to watch RedsGamingGears, he commonly gets survivors to full condemned status with her using a variety of builds and probably gets a Condemned kill every couple of games. It’s all about doing slugging and multitasking to not give survivors time to simultaneously do gens and heal each other and get rid of stacks at TVs.
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@Cameragosha said:
Sadako will not getting buff anymore.
The devs never said that.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904076#Comment_2904076
I'm not asking her to get buffed because she isn't as strong as Blight. I'm asking because it's blatantly obvious that she's in a bad spot and you do not need to wait several months to see that. Here is my response to TheShapesMixTape who was saying something similar to you:
Manifesting to lose your terror radius and ability to hurt survivors
Wraith does the same but is faster
Ghost Face, Michael and even Pig have better stealth and can still hurt survivors while undetectable
Teleporting to a TV with a 100 second cooldown per TV
Demogorgon can set portals manually, has a much shorter cooldown and can detect if survivors are near portals
Hag can set traps manually that she can teleport to instantly once triggered, also with no cooldown if multiple traps are up
Blight, Billy and Nurse can all traverse the map as fast as their powers will allow and have chase potential
Condemn survivors if you teleport to a nearby TV and can kill them at 7 Condemned stacks once downed
Pig has better kill potential with her traps and is harder to get rid of thanks to RNG
Pinhead's box wastes survivors time better and harasses everyone on the map if ignored for too long, helping him get downs faster
There's no reason to play her because every power she has, another killer has a better version of it.
And I didn’t say you think she needs to be as good as Blight, nor did I say any of the other things you said I said. I said people frequently make broad claims about killers in the first few days after release and it’s unwise to act on those because it takes a while for the meta to settle around new killers. What you day is “blatantly obvious” to you can easily be you personally not playing Sadako properly. Just the fact that above you said “Wraith does the same but is faster” already tells me you are probably trying to play her like Wraith which would not be a good idea since she is not Wraith and has different strengths and weaknesses to him.
It’s quite possible she will get a buff, but honestly she isn’t as broken as you seem to think she is. There are even some streamers out there putting on virtual clinics with her. My guess is she’s just slightly above Wraith overall, so maybe 2 1/2 stars or a little less out of 5 with Wraith at 2 out of 5, but that’s just a guess. So not a top tier killer but also not the worst either.
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In principle it probably should, but then again kicking Boons already has a really fast animation so it probably wouldn't matter. 🤷♂️
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904095#Comment_2904095
If you take 15 seconds to find a Survivor, 10 seconds to get a hit, 30 seconds to down, another 10 to hook and then another 10 to get to a gen, that's literally 2.99 gens popping.
It doesn't matter if you down quickly. Even an absurdly short chase of 30 seconds will still cost you a gen.
Which is why slugging a survivor to immediately chase someone else for a second down rather than immediately hooking can be effective. You shave off that 10 second carry time to get into that next chase faster which pressures another person off the gen 10 seconds faster, plus also indirectly pressures a third survivor to go heal the slugged one. Being in that situation gives you a lot more time to collect the hook at that point.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904103#Comment_2904103
The last two gens usually take less time if you ever commit to a chase thanks to the time reduction from 80-47 seconds with 2 survivors.
And they're also easier to defend because typically there is one survivor down or on hook, one being chased, and one going for a save or heal leaving only one to do the gens, not two. Not to mention if one of the survivors is dead by the time the survivors are on the last gen. As well as there often being less ground for the killer to cover to defend the gens at that point, especially if they've managed to build toward a 3-4 gen ending.
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In the first chase, 99% of the time, 2-3 gens can pop. Now let's assume that 1 chase led to 1 hook:
That's at worst 2/6 (counting opening the gates) to at best 3/6 (1/3 to 1/2) of the Survivor's objective done.
It's, AT BEST, 1/4 of the Killer's objective done. At absolute 'hook everyone once' BEST, the Killer JUST BARELY keeps up with a Survivor's AT WORST scenario.
Gens are not equal, the first two gens are not the same in terms of escaping as the last two gens. Saying "The survivors are over 1/2 way out!" after 2-3 gens are done completely ignores the fact that the last two gens are MUCH easier to defend as the killer than the first two gens. In fact typically about half the match or more takes place when 1-2 gens are left to do, and most 3-4 kill matches end with only one or no gens left.
On top of which, the game is intentionally designed so that, if all the players are playing equally well, the most common results are supposed to be 1-3 kills, meaning someone typically dies and someone typically escape most matches. So expecting the doors to be closed in half your matches is an unreasonable expectation under that design goal - the doors are supposed to open most of the time assuming the survivors played well.
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@SirCracken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902999#Comment_2902999
God this is disheartening. "Not enough time for everything to settle" Like you would need more than 10 minutes of gameplay to see how weak the ghost girl is.
When Blight came out half the forum was saying he was the worst killer in the game (and not just because of fiddly bouncing, people just weren't playing him well.) And I'm pretty sure a good chunk of the forums likewise don't play Sadako well either. Buffing a killer out of the gate because a bunch of people are claiming the killer is bad is not a good strategy.
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They’ve always done both types of events. The login bonuses are presumably just easy to program loyalty rewards they do about once a month, and the special events are things they patch in typically once every few months. Doing one has nothing to do with doing the other from a logistical standpoint.
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I don’t want any killers deleted. But I hate playing Nurse, I wish they would tweak her so you could keep your head up during a blink stun.
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She seems ok to me, not my favorite killer to play but I don’t think she’s boring. 🤷♂️
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Cenobite is fine. 🙂 His single target chain isn’t the most powerful ability but his chain hunts are great. Even the purple add on where he knows where his box is and can use it but instead of getting a chain hunt all the survivors still scream but he becomes Undetctable is decent. (No Chain Hunt if he does it but he knows where everybody is and is Undetectable for a while so can get a quick hit or two before it expires. Plus there’s a good chance he’ll spot a survivor heading to the box on the way since he knows where the box is.)
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I like MMR better, the matches are more consistent. (I always get the impression that the people who say it should be free for all are the ones who like beating weaker players.)
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Now I’m curious, what perks did you get on that killer that they have “no perks you will use”? I prestige all the time and I’ve never had a case where I had a killer with literally no perks I would use. (Yeah there are some terrible perks like Beast of Prey and Monstrous Shrine, but at least 2/3 of the perks are good enough to use.)
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902987#Comment_2902987
That solves nothing. Distance dash on demand is busted and unhealthy design.
I disagree, I frequently see the same survivors using Dead Hard both to get distance AND to dodge attacks successfully in the same match. Distance is the better use of the two but dodging an attack is still useful and happens all the time.
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I think Dead Hard should be two separate perks, one perk that lets you lunge for distance but you can still be hit, and another that lets you be very briefly invulnerable but that doesn’t give extra distance. Both effects are useful on their own that they’d see use.
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What I’d love to see is put custom emotes or sound packs for killers as Rift rewards. Having hundreds of charms is kind of redundant, I think emotes could be a cool addition to spice it up.
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Out of curiosity how long does it take to do the self heal using CoH with the new nerf? Basically that’s the main parameter to balance, if that’s slow enough to not be overpowered but fast enough to not be worthless then the perk is fine. (After all, if it took a full minute or longer to heal yourself for instance it would be pointless to try, you’d be taking yourself out of the match doing it.)
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@dollidahlia said:
I have been seeing this statement being thrown around a lot and I want to address it
”killers should stop expecting a 4k every game!”
oh really?
but survivors expect a 4 man escape every game though and here’s why.
one survivor gets hooked and camped, instead of doing the most logical thing which Is to do gens and leave, the rest of the team decides to bum rush the hook and get themselves killed
and afterwards they write insults to the killer saying they are just a “dirty dirty camper!“
I think killers should expect to 4K, after all that’s their job is to kill
and survivors should expect save as much people as they can, that’s their job.
but let’s not act like 1 side has “high expectations”
I’m a killer main, I don’t play survivor, and I will say the game is intentionally designed around 1-3 kills being the most common results if all players play equally well. Which means that yes, if you are expecting to frequently get 4 kills against players as good as you then you’re laboring under a false impression.
And yes, that also means survivors should expect someone to die most games if the killer plays as well as they did.
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@DNM said:
In my honest opinion map offerings shouldn't be in the game it gives survivors an unfair advantage to just choose where you go
More than survivors, map offerings just exacerbate whatever abusable problems might exist in a given map. For example, after the Boil Over buff when RPD and a couple of other maps had literally unhookable areas, that issue wouldn’t have been nearly as frequent except for the fact that players with Boil Over could force the match to go to those maps. And while I can’t think of a similarly abusable situation for killers off-hand I wouldn’t want to see a map where killers could abuse a map flaw for easy wins or infinite stalemates and then be able to force the game into those maps. (It’s certainly possible in principle that already can or has happened, I just can’t think of an example.)
So yeah, map offerings are pretty problematic. Whatever benefits they offer seem pretty minor compared to that glaring issue with them of forcing games onto maps with broken features.
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I always play on Ultra. However also turn up my brightness just slightly because some of the maps have areas that are honestly too dark in my opinion. Gloomy atmosphere is great, not being able to see walls or the survivor in front of me isn’t.
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@Noz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902466#Comment_2902466
I did. Not a single one got completed.
I’m really confused, how did no gens get done if Sadako was afk?
Also she’s not Pig, you could just leave and do gens yourself, it’s not like there’s a hard time limit for you to turn in the tape.
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I really like Sadako, she's a ton of fun. 🙂 She even has a couple of decent perks to boot!
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Yes but it has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with me being a total klutz. 🤦♂️
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901753#Comment_2901753
Yea but shadow step is very situational. Yes on places like Mt Ormond or indoor maps it's the most op Boon ever. But it's not weak no like the other two. Personally allowing the Killer to either destroy the totem or put tokens on them will bring back the Risk vs Reward of it and keep players from playing hot potato with totem blessing
There's already risk vs reward in the Boon system because it takes survivors 14 seconds to replace a snuffed Boon. If they don't get about that much benefit out of the placement then it's a loss. In principle the Boons are hopefully balanced with that 14 second time in mind. They should be weaker than Hexes, since they can be reset, but stronger than perks that don't require long activation times.
In fact if Boons could be permanently destroyed then they would probably need to be buffed to be more on par with Hexes in strength, and I'm pretty sure none of the people complaining about "Boons being overpowered" actually want them to be as powerful as Hexes.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901753#Comment_2901753
Show me someone getting value from Shadowstep....I'll wait
I know I’ve occasionally lost a survivor to Shadowstep. And someone else already replied above they have too.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901651#Comment_2901651
I think there is something to this, not just with Sadako, but in general. Obvs we don't know our MMR, but if someone forced me to guess, I'd say I play surv around upper-mid (not high) MMR, and I see a ton of Sadakos. When I am fortunate enough to have good run of escapes, I start seeing a lot less, but then start seeing tons of Nurses, who tbh I usually don't see much of generally. But that makes sense, given the viability of certain killers at certain levels.
I think Sadako is fun to play up to a point, but also might be challenging for noob killers, so it might make sense to see her more in the middle.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901657#Comment_2901657
It's not going to be a 1 in 27 chance really, though, since certain killers are played at a much higher rate. The other day I faced six consecutive Huntresses. Kind of unusual to have them bunched up like that, but is reflective of what the use rates say and not a completely freak occurrence. I almost never see Twins, Freddy, or Hag (especially).
Right, I said 1/27 is the average pick rate. Some will be more, some less, but that’s the average.
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I don’t get the people who say “Boons are worthless”. Shadowstep isn’t overpowered but it’s far from being worthless for instance.
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@Altarf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901691#Comment_2901691
If they don't balance based on primarily raw data, why did they give Nurse 3 blinks and at the same time, nerf Marvin's Blood? Please tell me.
If they are balancing Nurse just based on raw kill rates on all matches she is by far the lowest kill rate killer in the game. They would have buffed her into the sky by now.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901691#Comment_2901691
Well, ask killers about dh and devs fixing bugs
Why are you assuming I’m not a killer main? I never play survivor.
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@Altarf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901680#Comment_2901680
They gave her Torn Bookmark, one of the strongest add-ons in the game, and fully reworked her code not too long ago to make her more consistent. I'd call those notable buffs. Obviously they're not going to make her 4.4m/s, because they're not insane, but they have buffed Nurse and Blight multiple times recently while nerfing Wraith, Pinhead and Clown. If you have a reason for that besides gross pick/killrates, I'd like to hear it.
Right, fixing bugs is “buffing”, got it. 🙄