dugman
dugman
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@Altarf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901492#Comment_2901492
It doesn't matter how good he is at high level. BHVR have proven time and again that the gross killrates are the primary source for balance, and those killrates reflect low levels more than high levels, as seen by Pig, Freddy, Pinhead and Nurse's killrates. Legion will dominate low levels due to how his power works. Thus, he's likely to be nerfed.
Right, because they keep buffing Nurse even though her kill rate is only 45% or so.
…. Oh no, that’s right, that never happened and that’s not actually what they do.
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Keep in mind there’s 27 killers so on average a specific killer only pops up only 1 in 27 matches. Obviously some are more popular than that and some less but that’s the average so it’s not surprising if after the initial rush Sadako shows up only 4% of the time.
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I think hands down my favorite purple add-ons in terms of being really fun to play are Meyer’s Mirror and Tombstone addons. Those are the epitome of add-ons that really change up how you play the character from the base kit and, to me at least, are even more fun than playing with his normal ability.
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Welcome aboard! I can confidently say the great majority of the time anybody loses its because they made mistakes during the game. Tactical and strategic errors definitely outweigh loadouts and balance differences. When you hear about things like “Dead Hard is the best survivor perk” or “Meyers is a weak killer”, etc, those sorts of balance issues really only matter when all the players are playing pretty much flawless matches against each other. If I’m playing well as killer I can down people that aren’t playing well regardless of their loadouts. And likewise when I play poorly I will lose even if I’m running a typically good build.
As far as getting better at the game as a killer, some basics might be
- Always be prepared to let off holding forward while chasing someone in case they try and juke to the side or do a quick circle. If you’re just blindly constantly holding forward all the time it’s much harder to hit someone that jukes around like that. Be a little patient, tap the breaks if it feels like they’re dodging, and only swing when you appear to have a hit lined up.
- Doing a quick swing up close is harder for them to avoid in many cases than doing a lunge attack. They can see the lunge animation winding up so know to try and dodge it at that moment, and also I think lunge attacks have a narrower arc that they hit within. Lunge attacks are useful when you need the extra distance to hit someone before they can vault or drop a pallet, but in the open it’s better to just take the extra bit of time to get in quick attack range and use that.
- There’s so many tiles in the game it’s really difficult to memorize every optimal path on every loop. But you might want to look up videos on common things like dealing with the killer shack and a couple other patterns that appear all the time. (This is something I’m still really bad at personally. Just last night I was getting looped into oblivion at the top of the docks in the swamp, still not sure the right path to tale there.)
- Use headphones as a killer. Hearing survivors nearby and knowing precisely what direction they’re in is in my opinion at least as important and seeing them. If you’re not wearing headphones the game is significantly harder as killer.
- If you chase someone and they drop a pallet on you don’t be afraid to just break the pallet and go find a different survivor. If you keep going after the same survivor over and over and they keep reaching pallets you’re just giving everybody else time to work on the gens. Weakening the map by breaking the pallet is often “good enough” if you quickly turn back to driving people off the gens. Plus by switching targets you are more likely to find the weak link in the survivor group that you can down more easily, and once you have eliminated the weakest survivor player that puts a ton of pressure on the rest.
- Just because you see a survivor doesn’t automatically mean you should blindly go and chase them. Chasing someone off in a remote corner of the map far from all the gens is time the rest of the squad is free to finish them. Try to focus more on chasing people who are actively working on gens or near gens being worked on over chasing people you see in the distance that don’t seem to be doing anything useful, especially survivors that actively seem to want you to chase them since those are the ones hoping to distract you from their allies.
- If you down someone, and there seems to be another survivor nearby, feel free to just leave the downed person on the ground while you get a hit on the other one. That downed survivor isn’t really going anywhere or doing anything useful for a while so by switching targets during that down time you’re putting a lot of extra pressure on their side as a whole. A good rule of thumb is it takes about 10 seconds to carry someone you downed to a hook, so if you think you can do something useful in the next 10 seconds other than just carrying the person do that instead, and if you seem to have a short breather carry the person to a hook to finally capitalize on the down. Yes it takes a little longer to get a lot of hooks this way but it ultimately pays off by slowing the survivors down way more than the extra time it takes you.
- You’ll probably hear a lot about “face camping” people on hook. It’s actually in general not a good strategy because if you just stand in place and the other survivors just shrug and keep working on the gens and only come for a rescue at the last moment they can pretty much finish the gens by the time you get even a couple of hook states secured. It’s more consistently effective to be active more of the time to ensure that at most only one survivor can be working on a gen at a given moment. Of course playing zone defense is something else entirely, if you can multitask keeping an eye on a hooked survivor while also driving another survivor off a gen in the same area of the map that’s a pretty solid way to maintain pressure on multiple survivors at once.
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@Aurelle said:
Park Charlotte in the middle of the map, guard gens as Victor, hop onto the first survivor I see, and injure/down other survivors as Charlotte. When Victor comes back, repeat the same thing.
Which brings up an interesting point, there’s a common conception on the forums that “holding Victor hostage is a good tactic”. But the thing is the person holding Victor literally can’t do gens or heal other survivors, so a consequence of holding him hostage is you put the game into a 3v1 scenario where the killer is free to chase everybody else as if that other player was already eliminated or downed. Sure Charlotte is a relatively weak killer in a chase but she is still capable of getting hits and downs and weakening the map by breaking pallets given time and keeping someone off the gens for however long that hostage holder stays inactive does slow the gen progress significantly during that duration.
I’m not saying there’s no merit to keeping Victor inactive but it definitely comes with its own risks for the survivors.
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I'm all for it. Hopefully they'll put in character portraits instead, that would be much more meaningful than the grades.
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Doctor is fine balance wise. But I’d love to see them make his Hallucinatory Doctors chase survivors. They could even maybe just import the Nemesis zombie pathing for this and have the illusions use those to go after the survivors (without actually ever being able to damage them obviously)
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2899785#Comment_2899785
I'm always a cruisader for maps being less safe and making all killers viable. You're correct. No one wants to camp typically. But with most maps. It's almost a neccesity. I'll never agree to teleporting hooks though. There are legit reasons to camp. Doesn't matter when it happens in the game.
I've downed someone and downed the next person trying to flashie save seconds later. I had 2 hooks within 10m of each other and a regressing gen..At 5 gens. I'm sorry. But there's no reason no to leave that situation. Except to extend the game and give up the pressure THEY gave you
Teleporting hooks would destroy that type of situation.
Sure, camping is good strategy in some cases, I agree. On the other hand in the scenario you described where you have one down and one already hooked right next to you then you could probably just go find a third survivor and still win the game at that point, it honestly wouldn’t matter all that much even though it technically is less optimal than standing around the two dying survivors. So if the game did move the hooks I doubt it would make much of a difference on your ultimate kill rate in those particular matches.
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I’m way more interested in putting the character portraits in the spots where grades were. Knowing which player was which character at a glance at the end is much more interesting to me than what their grades are.
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@BrokenSouI said:
Eh. I'm not all for the participation trophies.
Play better, run with SWFs. Or accept the risks of running solo que and be left on hook.
I have no clue why people act like it's impossible to find other like minded people to play the game with
I don’t get the obsession with pips and Grades either, but to be fair they do reward a nice chunk of points per month and who am I to tell someone not to try and gain Grades?
Also I do agree that it would be nice if the devs could find a system they liked that steered killers more away from feeling like literal facecamping is an effective tactic. (I don’t personally think it usually is as good as other options but it does work in certain situations.) Really few people like the scenario of a killer standing around doing nothing for two minutes at a stretch. It’s not exciting for the killer, it’s obviously mind of lame just being on a hook that long, and the other survivor’s best strategy is work on gens as much as possible while that’s going on and going for the hook trade at the last minute. (Unless it’s a corner case of something like a Bubba that can deny a trade.) I do sometimes wonder what the game would be like if hooks had a system like Pyramid Head’s Cages where the hook disappeared into the ground and reappeared elsewhere to encourage the killer to go find a close target. Hard to judge if that would be better or worse than normal.
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I don’t have a main, but looking over the killers
Trapper - His add-on that he starts with all his traps onhand but can’t move them could really just be his base kit. It really helps him with setup time in the early game not having to gather traps from the ground.
Wraith - Sometimes I wonder if he’d be overpowered if he were literally invisible while cloaked. Or if he was entirely invisible while cloaked, and it was too strong, then if they could maybe slow his speed a bit while cloaked to compensate. Good survivors being able to see him while cloaked really hampers him sometimes.
Hillbilly - His chainsaw just feels so awkward to hit people with. I’m not sure how you could improve that though without making him either too much like Bubba or making him too powerful.
Nurse - Let her keep her head up during the blink stun so she can still see what’s going on. Staring at her feet half the match is easily the most irritating killer mechanic in the game. Also making Plaid Flannel base kit so you can see where she’s teleporting would make her more new player friendly (although maybe make that targeting beacon slightly smaller, it’s a bit too big probably.)
Shape - Instead of having a fixed amount of stalk on each survivor, just have him able to gain a certain amount of stalk per second per survivor he stalks and then put a cooldown timer on Evil 3 usage. It just feels overly complicated having different survivors with different stalk amounts.
Hag - Maybe make her just slightly taller so she has a little bit easier time seeing people in grass.
Doctor - Let his hallucinatory doctors follow survivors around kind of like Nemeses’ zombies. (They could even maybe just directly import the exact same ai zombies use for pathing.)
Huntress - Put a very small crosshair onscreen for her. Just a tiny dot, it would really help people like myself that don’t play Huntress that often. (Not a big one though, those are distracting. Like just a small dot is perfect)
Cannibal - I’m pretty ok with Bubba mostly as is, but outside of his own kit they may want to keep experimenting with systems to encourage less literal facecamping. (Sometimes I wonder if a system like Pyramid Head has for Cages would work with hooks where when you hook a survivor the hook vanishes into the ground and appears elsewhere.)
Nightmare - Have Freddy start with two separate inventories of snares and pallets every match and let him swap between which one he is placing similar to how Clown switches between pink and yellow bottles. Then also tweak his add-ons which specifically grant fake pallets to instead buff fake pallets in various ways.
Pig - Let survivors use the jigsaw boxes from the sides and back instead of just the front. That way if a Pig wants to guard a box they have to actually actively be hitting the survivor and can’t just be literally afk in front of it. On the flip side, speed up her crouched movement a bit closer to 100% survivor speed.
Clown - Make his yellow and pink bottle counts separate numbers so throwing a yellow bottle doesn’t use up a pink bottle in the process.
Spirit - Not so much Spirit, but make Iron Will a 90% sound reduction instead of 100%. At 100% it’s maybe a bit too strong, especially against Spirit, and also too strong against Stridor.
Legion - They just got a massive rework so it’s hard to gauge if there’s anything I’d change in their new base kit.
Plague - She’s probably mostly ok, although my aim is terrible with her.
Ghost Face - As with Legion, hard to judge since they just did a massive revamp on him.
Demogorgon - Demo is pretty ok as is. Maybe let his Undetectability last just a bit longer after popping out of a portal?
Oni - Something about how his attacks work when he’s powered up just feels really clunky to me. I kind of wish he had closer to Bubba’s maneuverability with his attack, although obviously you have to be careful since his attack is really powerful.
Deathslinger - Let Deathslinger hit someone with his bayonette who is reeled from directly across a pallet. Nothing is more frustrating with him than hitting injured survivors with the rifle and not being able to secure a down.
Executioner - Maybe boost how long the trails last a bit?
Blight - He’s already pretty strong so I’m not sure here. (I’m terrible at hitting with his Rushes but that’s on me)
Twins - Am I the only one that think it looks super goofy seeing survivors vault full speed and drop pallets while Victor is gnawing on their head?
Trickster - Same as with Huntress, a tiny crosshair dot would be super helpful for people like myself who don’t play him very often
Nemesis - Improve zombie pathing so they don’t get stuck as often.
Cenobite - Make his single target chains last just slightly longer
Artist - Make crows unable to damage survivors outside about a 30 meter distance. (They can still mark survivors but not damage them). That would get around the pseudo broken thing of her facecamping a survivor while using Dead Man’s Switch and spamming crows at 70-80 meters to knock people off gens.
Onryō - Make all survivors who have any stacks take the passive Condemned stack timer as if they had a tape. That would improve the threat of Condemned a bit and help her pressure people off gens that much more often.
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@Aneurysm said:
Blindness is the next (only?) status effect which needs looked at, broken is fine.
The thing about Blindness is that it’s actually effective against average survivors but weak against survivors with strong awareness and survivors with good coordination on comms. So if you did just give it a straight up buff it might be too powerful against average solo survivors. You would want to somehow give it a buff that impacts mainly people on comms but not solo survivors, I’m not sure how to do that though. 🤷♂️
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Yeah, I wish the devs would implement something internally where when a ticket is submitted it automaticallh generates a data file for customer service that they can use internally to review the game rather than require players to manually record their own games and attach them on the website. Unfortunately Mandy mentioned a little while ago that Behaviour determined it isn’t feasible to implement a reply system, even internally, which kind of means we’re stuck with having to record our own games if we want to report anything actionable.
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Got it. 👍 I don’t play survivor so I won’t answer but from my killer perspective Dead Hard seems to impact my matches more than Decisive Strike. I mostly ignore Decisive Strike but there are a lot of chases where Dead Hard made the difference between a hit and a pallet or vault.
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To clarify, are you asking which of these two you would use as a survivor if you could only use one?
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2899378#Comment_2899378
Can't they also just get around the BP caps? Idk how much hackers can do
It’s probably harder to get around the cap than it is to fake a scoring event since the cap is something that the system is responding to an input versus an input being given to it by the player. Plus if it were possible to override the cap there would probably already be hackers that get 1 million Bloodpoints per match which I don’t think I’ve heard of so far? But who knows? 🤷♂️
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@Mandy said:
The killer difficulty rating is nothing to do with balancing. It's purely for new players and how easy/difficult it is for them to pick up the character and play reasonably well instantly. Some killers take a bit more understanding and experience on how to use their powers more effectively.
For sure! I play 1-3 matches a night on whatever killer I happen to have a mission for, so on average I’m playing a given killer only once a month. Which means killers that are mostly basic melee killers are my best ones since they’re kind of mechanically similar in chases, but I’m terrible at the killers that have ranged attacks or killers like Oni and Blight and Nurse and to some extent Victor which rely on unique special lunges for the bulk of their damage. Basically I haven’t looked the killer difficulties over but I would bet how well I do with them on average mostly aligns with that chart.
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@Nos37 said:
Forced Penance needs something other than Broken at endgame.
Forced Penance is the one perk that "counters," or rather, punishes survivors who bodyblock with protection hits. (Mad Grit being a close second, but situational)
However, survivors are most likely to take protection hits at the end of the trial which is when the Broken status effect is the least useful.
Survivors hit by Forced Penance at the end of the trial: "Oh no! I cannot be healed! Both my friend that I took a protection hit for and myself can still safely run to the exit gate, but now they can no longer heal me in the killer's face on the threshhold to taunt them into forcing us out of the match... I can still heal my friend, but they cannot heal me. What ever shall we do!?"
Protection Hits are more common than you think, when I run this perk I frequently get broken survivors mod match just because of altruistic hook trades and body blocks but also because of things like two injured survivors working on the same gen when I hit one of them. Yes, you also get them obviously after the gates are opened, but the perk does generate value earlier in the match more often than not for me.
I’m not saying the perk is good or bad overall, just pointing out that it does trigger outside of endgame for me.
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I’ve never intentionally DC’d, and when the penalties are off disconnects are ridiculously rampant. They need to stay on.
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I think it would be interesting if the Observer accidentally created an evil version of himself as a killer like a creature from the id and the game then had them as both a survivor and a killer simultaneously.
On a tangent Blight was loosely an homage to Jeckyl and Hyde but obviously for game purposes is permanently stuck in Hyde form. Oni is the only killer than swaps between two forms. And of course there’s no character so far that is sometimes a survivor and sometimes a killer.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2899362#Comment_2899362
Cheater: codes a way to give themselves points so the game "thinks" it's still legitimate.
Points are capped. Even if a hacker spoofs doing scoring events it eventually would hit the 8k cap.
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@Pulsar said:
The no-heal meta saw Survivors focus gens which wasn't fun but at least hit and run Killers were viable.
The CoH meta has seen Survivors be able to focus gens AND heal, which is even less fun.
To be fair the self healing on CoH is a lot slower now so it does feel less oppressive than the original version. Now at least when they spend time self healing and replacing the totem if it gets snuffed it actually is taking more time away from them doing the gens. In fact I’ve seen a few games where the survivors actually lost because they got so focussed on setting up and using a CoH boon that it slowed them doing gens enough for the killer to win.
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They should keep the DC penalties, it’s too easily abused otherwise.
As far as hackers holding the game hostage, I think the game should have an automatic sudden death if nobody scores any points for about five minutes. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where starting a timer to end the game when nothing substantial has happened in five minutes would be a bad thing. At that point either the survivors have either not been doing gens or opening the gates and the killer has been getting and hits or downs or hooks for five minutes straight, it would be a stalemate that I’m pretty sure both sides would just want the game to end in a draw essentially.
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I like Bloodhound, it’s just excellent at helping track down injured survivors. Yeah you can see blood without it, but it’s impossible to miss blood with it, plus it makes the bloodstains last longer. And unlike Nurse’s Calling it’s always on regardless of what the survivor is doing and isn’t susceptible to aura disabling effects like Shadowstep.
And as a quality of life perk I’m a fan of Deerstalker. Again, you can hear survivors on the ground usually, but not always, and sometimes you end up searching for a dying survivor that crawled into a bush or something for a good 10 seconds or so. This completely eliminates that, and it totally sidesteps that occasional sound glitch where you can’t hear a dying survivor.. Plus it indirectly helps you keep an eye on a dying survivor to see if someone is coming in for a save since you know exactly where they are and can glance there as desired. It certainly not a “meta” perk in terms of impact but it’s just so handy it makes for a fun filler perk in a lot of builds, assuming you like to slug for pressure.
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@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896351#Comment_2896351
Hyperbole and allegory are lost in a place like this.
Just because someone is saying someone negative does not mean it's a 'temper tantrum'.
The point of this illustration is to show that complaints are not, by virtue, inappropriate or overtly dramatic.
So long as someone's grievances are grounded in a relevant truth, they can be viewed as constructive to a point - if not, at the very least, understandable.
To decry someone and dismiss their activity as childish when they voice their concerns is antithetical to the point of a forum.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896366#Comment_2896366
- It's a forum. You can announce your experience, yes. It may be valid or not, in your case, you explicitly made it an invalid expression - in which case it should be ignored rather than discouraged outright. We are not here to discourage discussions.
- You're missing the point of the post completely, which is not simply about the necessarily obtuse nature of adept challenges, but about the killer experience overall and the complete disregard of the experience from the developers.
- There is no such thing as an inherently 'difficult' adept challenge. There are only bad perks. Upon this, adept challenges for killers are incredibly easy at low ranks - you can accomplish them by pure accident. However, they become outright IMPOSSIBLE to accomplish in high ranks. Ghost Face at top rank basically feels impossible to get adept with, if he's your first killer, you can get it in your first couple of matches. Not only does this 'argument' completely disregard that survivor adepts aren't a challenge at all, nor that killer adepts aren't much of a challenge on bad players - only 'good' ones, but it also ignores the overall point of the post - which is that the developers have forsaken the experience... the Adept challenges wouldn't be nearly the challenge they were if the requirements weren't so strange... but if the perks were not such absolute garbage, it would also not be such a strange concept. It's already a 'challenge' to accomplish such goals with only 3 perks - doing it with garbage perks doesn't help much ever. Adept Meyers at high MMR is basically impossible to accomplish - as the roundabout accomplishments are completely contrary to his play style and perks. To try to argue in FAVOR of the current Adept system is to be willingly ignorant of its pitfalls ; atop missing the point of the post altogether.
- So... your plan is to make a counterargument - then to basically agree with him and aid in his point by conceding that this is burning him out, and he should just stop playing... as YOU have? That's not much of a counter to a complaint.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896532#Comment_2896532
That's not how a bell curve works - not a graph.
The more players you have, the more likely you will be paired with people 'close' to your MMR is a generalization that does not take into account the average MMR level.
This is the same as saying 'The more people in your town, the more people over 150 IQ there will be' or 'The more you gamble, the more you win' - just because there's a chance for something by means of numerics does not indicate a result based off of averages.
Not only does it depend on the average MMR, but it also depends on the time of day.
Just because the player count increases does not mean that the quality of MMR, by merit, becomes greater - especially for outliers.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896647#Comment_2896647
Uhhh...
Survivor Adept is a 50/50 shot as enforced by MMR (Ideally)
Killer adept requires literally flawless gameplay at higher ranks.
You literally can lose your Adept from 3 Exposed downs on healthy survivors, a single flashlight save, or one generator being completed in 90 seconds - which is almost always at higher ranks.
I get if you're pointing out the differences in gameplay. But you're blatantly ignoring the inherent differences between the challenges.
It isn't apples to oranges, it's 50/50 crapshoot to literally being held to a nearly impossible standard of perfection.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896807#Comment_2896807
They actually do - they admitted as much in their latest update.
If you're in que for a few seconds - the current MMR system says 'screw it' and grabs the best people ASAP.
A large part of the reason behind the recent MMR tests is to determine the right 'balance' for this, as the community seems to disfavor throwing MMR scores out the window after sitting in que for 30 seconds or so.
Your analogies on statistics are off. For example, the more people there are in a town the more people there are who are 150+ IQ is statistically true, as well as there being more people under 150 IQ. Likewise it’s also staistically true that the more times you gamble the more times you win, also the more times you lose. The ratios or wins to losses stays the same but the absolute numbers do both increase.
As far as MMR goes, the greatest percentage of players are going to be in the median buckets of ratings, so if you are in that median range you have the greatest probability of a given random opponent being in your bracket. Outlier players have the lowest probability of having a given random player being in their bracket so they tend to wait longer than the median players for matches.
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896228#Comment_2896228
The example you proposed assumes that matches end in discrete intervals (i.e. every 10-15 minutes a set of matches ends) and killers thusly enter the queue in these intervals. So survivors who died early wait 10-15 minutes, a bunch of killers end the matches and enter queue, and then those survivors enter a new set of matches.
This isn't the case. Matches are constantly ending and survivors/killers are constantly entering the queue. The 4:1 ratio you described overall should never, ever, allow for queue ratios to get to 12:1 or 30:1 or 50:1 given a large population. If that were the case, how do we see a ratio of 6:1 in the morning, do the intervals just magically stop?
BTW, the peak hours was 12:1 at the start of prime time, and within an hour goes to 30:1 which it stays there for a while before going to 50:1.
I understand what your saying with the example and I can see how it causes spikes in the ratio/queue times. However, there is no way that the disproportionate ratio will maintain for 15 hours if the overall ratio was 4:1 or 5:1.
What you’re missing is that the short side will always have close to essentially zero people in queue, while the surplus side will always have however many people are left over, but the ratio of those two numbers is not the same as the ratio of the total number of survivors and killers in all the ongoing matches plus the players in the lobby. Like I said above, for example, you can actually total up those numbers from the charts in the blog and from Steam Charts and when you do you find the totals are much closer to 20% killer at peak times than the ratios in just the lobbies.
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@ForumUsername said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2893645#Comment_2893645
Just because it makes your job easier does not mean its a good idea to remove them. You are just being selfish with that statement.
It's a good idea to remove them because doing so helps people who are confused. The selfish thing would be to keep in something that's confusing a lot of people just because you personally like it.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896619#Comment_2896619
Then you can go watch this VOD against a 4 stack TTV SWF earlier where they just happen to have boon exponential and they get up like 6+ times because of slugging. It's not like you go kick boons as Plague and by the time you realize it's exponential the game literally could have been over.
You keep making arguments that something is impossible when I already pointed you to someone that does it consistently. I'm not the one that needs to show more evidence that it can be done. Either you can watch the videos or you can ignore them.
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@JeanCharpentier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896607#Comment_2896607
No and devs have explained how the soft cap works.
If the MM was waiting for a high 3k MMR killer to match it with 3k MMR survivors, the 3k MMR survivors would have 2 hours queue times.
The MM match the survivors with the first killer available and as there are not enough killers they match high MMR survivors with average killers. That's why they refuse to show you the numbers.
Just read about it, do your own research. MM favor queue time instead of fairness, BHVR admitted it.
Atm in peak hours there are between 7 and 15 killers for 2300 survivors, it has been leaked. So stop to think you are smarter than anyone while you do not even know what you are talking about.
Moreover, as smart as you are, one fact surely didn't escape you : strong SWF wins 90% of their games, ranking up higher and higher to an infinite MMR score.
Killers cannot win against those SWFs that are numerous at high MMR, killers are blocked to a certain MMR score ceiling.
It is obvious that the pool of ultra high MMR survivor is infinitely higher than the pool of ultra high MMR killers.
Sometimes i face unbeatable SWFs and then the game later i face baby survivors. The SBMM just favors low queue times now, that's all.
I know how the MMR works, but what you're overlooking is that the system first prioritizes matching players close in MMR and then backfills as needed. They don't "favor queue times instead of fairness", it's the other way around. It's fairness first when it's available in a reasonable time.
The one thing you're right about is that high outlier MMR players will likely not have equally high outlier MMR opponents a lot of the time so in those cases those players go into matches after waiting a bit. But what you're overlooking is that those players are NOT the majority of survivors or players - they're the ones that are well above average. The bulk of players are in the median MMR buckets and those players do not have serious shortages of opponents in their MMR ranges. So yes, sometimes an average player gets put against a very high level or very low level opponent, but it's a lot more common for them to be put against opponents around their level because there are a lot more players in that median bucket than the outlier ones. (Which mathematically has to be the case - the "top 5-10% of players" literally can't be in 90% of the matches.)
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896603#Comment_2896603
Well against a good 4 stack you have about ~4-5 minutes to end the game. Slugging the first survivor you down will buy you ~20-30 seconds at most. I am typically using power spike perks on a very short timer (Corrupt, Deadlock) and need to get results for them or lose the game. Slugging the first survivor gets me an unbreakable used (if that), 2 gens done, and 1 hook at the end of my corrupt. As opposed to potentially a half state on someone in the same timeframe.
You are never going to be 12 hooking these teams with the killers I play, you need to get a half state into a death ASAP for any sort of chance to win.
I would do it if the down would literally be handed to me but other than that? I would not.
20-30 seconds is a second down. And your assumption the match lasts 4-5 minutes is incorrectly assuming three survivors free most of the time to continue pushing the gens. With good slugging and hooking a single survivor primarily you are forcing them to have at most one person on gens at a time which means you have closer to 7-8 minutes before all the gens would get done assuming you failed to actually get your first kill in that time. And because you’re spending less time hook other survivors and mainly hooking just one survivor you are getting those hooks that you do make more efficiently.
But hey, like I said, you don’t even have to believe me, there’s dozens and dozens of matches on Youtube with multiple killers where this tactic works. If you don’t want to even consider that it can work and continue ignoring it that’s on you.
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@JeanCharpentier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896532#Comment_2896532
Nope as all survivors must have the same queue times. Think before writing a statement.
Nope, most killers go against survivors that are matched with them normally, the number of survivors who must be backfilled is much smaller than the number who aren’t. Think before you make a statement.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896579#Comment_2896579
Then that is on the survivors. I slug too when the situation calls for it but it doesn't mean it's always a good idea. I don't think I would ever be slugging survivors straight off the bat, that's not progressing the game for you as the killer at all.
I honestly consider infectious fright a disrespectful perk. It used to be good but not in the days of MMR outside maybe like Nurse and Oni. Infectious assumes the survivors are bad enough to be getting chain slugged in the first place.
I never said “slugging was always a good idea”. I said “always hooking the first down isn’t always a good idea”.
And again, you’re wrong about it not progressing the game in that you are getting into a second chase much more quickly and removing resources from the map in the process and slowing their gen progress in the process. You are giving yourself more time to get the hooks later in the match by slugging earlier is the point.
Also it’s a cop out to assume that “it’s the survivors playing badly”. He’s high MMR, most of the games he has are against solid survivors.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896365#Comment_2896365
I don't need to. Slugging the first survivor you down? That must be a blight/nurse thing, and I don't play those killers often. Against a really good 4 stack you are gonna have to fight for every down, it's not like you slap on infectious and just roll through entire teams these days unless the survivors are hella boosted.
Here's an example loadout of the god squad SWF I watch for a stream.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TO0Q7LU0S42Y/unnamed.png
You wanna tell me how much slugging is going to buy you there, if you can even slug?
Just cause some guy can go slug solo Q survivors with Nurse or something doesn't mean it's relevant to me.
Lol, again, he slugs with basically all the killers, not just Nurse, and it works against high MMR teams too.
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@JeanCharpentier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896398#Comment_2896398
There are not enough killers for them to be matched against survivors from their skill level.
So high SBMM survivors are matched against average MMR killer. The game is already impossible for high MMR killers against high MMR survivors.
So imagine for an average killer that just want to play for fun : 1 hook and the doors are opened. Wow what a good game.
Having a surplus of survivors makes it more like to be matched against ones your own MMR, not less.
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@impulse_90 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894921#Comment_2894921
I 4k'd one of them and 3k'd another with hatch so yeah I kinda do.
Look I don't really care about adepts as much as I care about the overall frustration that this game has.
It's the only game I've ever seen where once you get remotely decent at it, it then becomes and absolute sweat fest and isn't even remotely fun after playing at higher ranks for a little bit. Just makes me cringe to think that it's been like this for so long and nothing has been done.
The game doesn’t “become a sweatfest”, you just are frustrated once you start having to play harder to get 4ks. Nothing is forcing you to “sweat”, play the game however you want, but it’s unreasonable to expect to consistently get 4ks against people your own skill level if you’re not playing as hard as they are.
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I think it’s on par with Ruin. Ruin is stronger because it’s less vulnerable to tapping gens to stabilize them, but it also is a hex so is usually destroyed after a couple of minutes. Brine can be negated by a tap but if a survivor isn’t in a position to do that it works just as well as Ruin on that gen plus gives tracking info when someone works on it as a bonus and since it’s not a hex is guaranteed to work.
So the two have pros and cons relative to each other.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2896252#Comment_2896252
I lost you at "by the time survivors do a hook trade" since the only killers you should be face camping with are ones who can deny the unhook outright. Plenty of them can do it: any 1 shot killer, huntress, trickster, etc etc. If you get your down early enough it's a totally effective strategy depending on your perks.
No way out and Deadlock are literally the two best camping perks that have come out in years, and I routinely camp people to death starting at 5 gens and am not punished specifically because of them. It's not exactly super fun, but going against 4 stack meta SWFs will be a chore no matter what so you might as well make it easier on yourself unless you want to lobby dodge.
Going for 12 hooks with a weaker killer on super braindead easy maps like "The Game" or "Eyrie of Crows" is a great way to get 3-4 hooks and some good old gg ez's in the postgame.
Slugging is barely an effective strategy since all it takes is 1-2 unbreakables and you can lose the game. You basically just pray the survivors are not running the meta. With medkits and WGLF slugging someone buys you all of ~8 seconds some games.
You’re absolutely 100% wrong about slugging not working if you do it as I described. If you want to see slugging working at high MMR I recommend watching RedsGamingGears, he consistently wins against meta build survivors using that tactic.
Also regarding hook trades, I gave Bubba as the goto example of an instant down killer than can deny hook trades, hypothetically other killers can tinker out instant down builds that could work but those are obviously less common. Most killers without instant down can’t deny a hook trade outright though.
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Fun to play is obviously totally subjective. Judging by the list you hate stealth killers and love ranged killers. I’m totally the opposite, I love stealth and hate ranged. And I actively despise playing Nurse, staring at her feet all game is a super dumb mechanic.
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Literal face camping for two minutes is bad strategy normally. If you stand in place that long four gens are essentially done by the time the survivors do a hook trade, and then the exits are open by the time they do another trade at the end. The only time actual face camping for a long time is a good strategy is with a killer like Bubba who can get quick instant downs on both the rescued survivor and the rescuer during a trade. The devs still don’t like face camping being something that some players FEEL is effective since it’s not an exciting game loop having the killer and hooked person stare at each other for two minutes which is why they say they have been experimenting with ways to get the game to nudge killers away from it.
So-called “proxy camping”, which is really just zone defense where you defend about 1/3 of the map, is more effective. But anybody who thinks zone defense is somehow an illegitimate way to play the game is delusional, it’s not any different than having a 3 gen and hooking a survivor in the area.
In fact the best strategy for the early game isn’t even necessarily hooking the first survivor you down, you can usually do better by slugging that survivor and immediately going to down someone else. Since hooking a survivor takes 10 seconds, by slugging you are being very time efficient in getting into a new chase and directly chasing another off a gen. At that point you have one dying, one being chased, and indirectly a third reviving the downed survivor so only one is on a gen. That dramatically slows progress and gives you additional time to collect hooks as you get moments when you can tell probably only one survivor is actively working a gen. And you can even single out one survivor to be the only one you hook for the most part, slugging everybody else initially, to further really be even more time efficient at getting that person to three hooks while still pressuring two of the others off the gens.
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894735#Comment_2894735
The numbers aren't misleading imo, although they might be straight up wrong.
If there are 10,000 matches going on, and the overall ratio of survivors to killers is 5:1, then there are matches constantly ending and survivors/killers rejoining the queue. The queue ratio will never blossom to 50:1 for hours. It may spike up there a couple times but for it to be this ratio for hours indicates that the ratio is a correct representation.
Now if the numbers are entirely incorrect, that is they are not representative of the Eastern US region at all and only a single server from the sources local region the situation you described may be correct. In this case the numbers aren't the queue at all and just a local server. If the former case is true than I don't think scenarios that you've described can exist for hours.
I think your reasoning is off on the queue times. Matches take 10-15 minutes or longer typically (unless they’re a total blowout). One side or the other will be short on players, for the sake of argument let’s say we have fewer killers than we need. While that’s the case all killers will essentially be getting into lobbies pretty much instantly, so they’ll be in a game within about 60-70 seconds. Meanwhile the excess survivors have to wait for matches to finish for new spots to open up, so they’re only getting into a new game about every 10-15 minutes. So if killers are the short side the killers in queue will always be nearly zero while the survivors in queue will be proportional to the wait time difference which is the ratio of the match time to the minute timer in the lobby basically (10-15 to 1 at peak times). And at off peak times, which that blog article inexplicably focussed on (it’s primary headline went with something like 3 AM for some reason) you will have an even longer wait because there will be times when no killer is waiting for a match simply by chance since there are fewer players to begin with. (That 50 to 1 ratio was the extreme off peak hours figure, not the peak hours number which is obviously the better value to look at since the great majority of players in the overall population play at peak times.)
P.S. It’s easy to actually add up the numbers in the blog plus the numbers on Steamcharts to get what should be the actual ratios. In another thread we did that and at around 4 PM it was something like 1000 people in queue at something like 900 to 100 ratio I think it was and around 41,000 players total on Steam in matches and queue combine. So when you work it out the ratio at peak times was around 32900 survivors to 8100 killers.
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“Gen camper”
And more commonly
”Tunneler”
”Tryhard”
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894824#Comment_2894824
I'm not denying that Dead Hard is a good perk. I just feel it has strong alternatives (Sprint Burst and Overcome) that people don't run because they're conditioned to think Dead Hard is the best. If most top tier Survivors think Dead Hard is the best perk, then you're going to have a placebo effect.
Statement 1 is much closer to the truth than Statement 2.
- I am a good Survivor therefore I run Dead Hard because that's what I believe all good Survivors run.
- Dead Hard is a broken perk therefore it makes me a good Survivor and is the reason for my success.
Again, though, statistically Sprint Burst and Overcome don't appear to show the safe effect on escape rates that Dead Hard does. All three are good perks but the actual impact by Dead Hard is greater. It's not just a placebo effect.
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@Marigoria said:
They should remove the "easy/intermediate/hard" thing because it is completely subjective.
Everything is subjective but it’s there to give a subjective hopefully reasonable opinion for brand new players wondering who to play.
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Dead Hard does statistically significantly correlate with higher escape rates, it’s not the same as Borrowed Time where killers assume people doing saves near them have it and just avoid hitting the rescued survivor because of it. For example someone posted a month or two ago a 400+ game data set that included the perks used in every match. When you pivot out escapes by number of survivors who had Dead Hard per match there was a clear strong fairly linear correlation where for every survivor that used Dead Hard the kill rates dropped 5-10%. (It went from something like 70% when nobody ran it to 40% when everybody ran it if I remember right with corresponding values in between.) In comparison Borrowed Time was mostly flat, there wasn’t much kill rate difference per person running Borrowed Time, probably because the killer just assumed everybody had it.
So survivors definitely gain significant tangible benefits running Dead Hard compared to not running it. Killers “expecting you to have it” only gets you so far, the real benefit comes from actually having it and using it for either distance or dodging or both. It’s why the devs have said they’re not currently happy with Dead Hard’s stats but have also implied they might be thinking about making something like Borrowed Time just a base kit effect.
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One tip is slug a bit more in the early game. It’s about time efficiency - it takes about 10 seconds to carry someone you just downed to a hook. So say you’ve chased someone and gotten your first down of the match, your choice is now spend the next 10 seconds getting a hook or you can leave them downed and use that time to quickly chase a second survivor off a gen, which then indirectly pressures a third survivor off a gen to revive the slugged survivor.
So basically when all four survivors are up and healthy you know 100% they are doing gens if you’re not chasing them. Therefore rather than just automatically hook someone you down when everybody is alive, ask yourself if you might be able to get a second down efficiently by not hooking that dying survivor and instead going for another injure or down before you finally hook someone. Especially if you know another survivor is nearby when you get your first down you should consider going after them to extend the pressure. Keeping pressure up in a time efficient manner while all four survivors are alive is how you dramatically slow their gen progress and give yourself more time to collect hooks when you get moments to reap them.
Also along those lines remember who you’ve already hooked and prioritize hooking them a second and third time versus hooking other survivors once. If you slug the people you haven’t hooked and hook the one person you’re trying to eliminate first you gain a lot of extra time to find and kill that specific target. And killing that first survivor is ultimately the key, once one is dead the 3 vs 1 match is much easier for you.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894375#Comment_2894375
Why do you think you can decide what DH is supposed to be used for?
The Distance and the i-Frames are both part of the effect. Both are the supposed effect of DH. And if you want to make one the "main" effect, I would say it is the distance, considering it is mentioned first.
But overall, both are the "supposed" effect. You stating that it is supposed to dodge a Hit is just your interpretation.
And well, they are just saying they are looking into it. Not that they are looking into changing it, this is a difference. However, if they remove the distance, the Perk will be one of the worst Exhaustion-Perks.
Actually the devs did say they’re not happy with Dead Hard currently so it’s very likely they’re experimenting with various nerfs. We just don’t know what the eventual nerf will be.
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@Basement_Bubba420 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894452#Comment_2894452
If you look at certain blogs that analyze queue populations you'll see that survivor to killer ratio is 6:1 in the morning (EASTERN USA) and quickly goes to 12:1 and 30:1 during prime time. At night it can reach upwards of 50:1.
This would seem like the game is dying. Only a few people left that actually play killer.
The blog article I saw had misleading numbers, it was listing lobby ratios which is just players waiting in a lobby for a game and doesn’t include players actually in a game. Lobby counts are significantly smaller than actual players in matches and all matches have exactly four survivors and one killer. So the real ratio is much closer to a a bit under 20% of players are killers than “50 to 1”. (In other words when you have 2 people in a lobby waiting as a killer and 100 people waiting as survivors, but you also have 10,000 matches going, there isn’t a “50 to 1” ratio of killers)
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@Peanits said:
I can confirm that it's part of the matchmaking tests, not a bug. As for what else changed today, that will remain a mystery until later on.
I say leave them off and replace them with the character portraits. Personally I’m way more interested in seeing at a glance which player was which survivor versus seeing the grades.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2891362#Comment_2891362
I'm going to make a prediction :)
It's either:
- We're matchmaking off ranks again
- It's a placebo to see if people's perception of matchmaking improves when they can't see the ranks (people come in late in the month, see that their Ash IV is getting matched against a team of Iri 1 and freak out). The timing makes me 90% sure it's this one.
Curious. I will say my matches have been wild this morning, but it could just be luck.
Mandy commented separately that removing the grades from the screen is something that is one of the most requested changes so it could simply be a way to test the reaction to it.
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After thinking about some of the results I’m betting one of the things they were experimenting with was how the system calculates the aggregate MMR for a swf that has a gap in the ratings of its members, such as when a veteran plays with a friend who doesn’t play much. My guess is the actual system in place probably just does something simple like an average of their two ratings, but that’s probably not actually the most accurate method. So I think they’ve been tinkering with things like using the highest or lowest MMR in a swf as its group rating and other settings in between. That would explain why one of the days (Day 3?) some people including myself tended to see a lot of groups that were all much higher skill than usual and which seemed to include swfs - that could have been a test of treating the swfs as if they were the MMR of their lowest rated member. So if your own MMR as a killer was kind of high, and it had a swf of four people the weakest of which was about your level and the rest were top tier, that group would be considered a “close match” in that scenario.
Similarly for if they tested swfs as “treat them as the highest rated member”, in that case you could have a high MMR killer going against a swf that had exactly one high MMR survivor and the rest were friends that had never played before. That day’s tests would probably show more swinginess in the ratings than usual.
That’s all speculation on my part though. 🤷♂️