dugman
dugman
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
Hmm stats are sus, you're saying Nurse is at 64% killrate but she was lowest killrate in january 2022, Pinhead was highest but now suddenly he's not even top 3 ? He still has same oppressive passive he should be higher
Nurse is the lowest in the overall ratings but as I mentioned above Nurse is an example of how the site’s kill rates are skewed toward people who play a lot more regularly.
As far as Pinhead goes he’s number ten on the list at 58%. So basically average. Also note that the stats you’re talking about were in mid December to mid January and Pinhead came out in that September so was still somewhat new. On top of which Pinhead is generally considered stronger against weaker players who don’t necessarily really get how the box works so his high kill rate in the overall stats is probably a very high rate against average to below average players but drops down as MMR increases.
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@fixdeadhard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141487#Comment_3141487
I just touched the basis on why this 1 thing i mentioned already made the data completely useless to analyse. Its already breaking 1 of the first rules of statistics, i dont find it worth to spend my energy in mentioning everything else why this data is bad to use, i would be writing a few pages.
However, this 1 single thing you mention about perks usage is something indeed a bit more useable, yet it isnt because of the small amount of people uploading this (as a killer its not hard to just add games that include certain perk usage that you hate to try and prove a point, again, this data is extremely sensetive to bias, and we all know how bias completely dominates every discussion on this forum)
I think youre underestimating how big the sample has to be because of the so many variables in this game that cant be controlled.
I disagree on the size not being sufficient, particularly for the perks. Once you’re above a few hundred entries in a sample your confidence level is already fairly good for an informal result and the site is collecting thousands of essentially random opponent samples in the periods discussed. And I seriously, seriously doubt there’s some bad actor intentionally trying to upload extremely cherry picked opponents from multiple games trying to skew the data.
Feel free to ignore the post if you want, though, that’s fine by me.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3141487#Comment_3141487
It doesn’t include any console player data whatsoever. That in and of itself creates a lot of skepticism. Additionally, because it’s voluntary, there are likely many players who don’t spend any time uploading data. I’m sure it’s probably a microcosm of what global game trends are, but I wouldn’t put so much stock in this.
Again, it’s not true there’s no console data for the perk usage because those stats are based on opponents’ using the perks, not the people uploading it. So the perk data actually is probably fairly accurate for the MMR bracket the site population generally falls into.
Also I said at the very beginning that the kill rates in particular are a skewed sample because those are based on the players who voluntarily do the uploads. However their relative upward movement in kill rates is probably not far off from what the overall database sees. (I.e. The site’s beginning and ending kill rates are I think lower than the overall data but moved up a proportional amount.)
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@fixdeadhard said:
The data is useless, the amount of games uploaded does not represent the actual population results. These uploaded games are from such a small sample of the population. Also these people are biassed since almost no1 will spend time on uploading this unless they want to prove a point (so data uploaded will be in their favour). Reading these stats is like measuring the average height of 10 males that voluntary do this (so will probably be above average) while measuring each person 50 times. It gives no correct data that you can/should analyse.
You’re definitely both underestimating how many games are included and also not understanding how the data works for the perk usage.
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@Ricardo170373 said:
Ok, but, My stats are
Killer pre patch : 73% kill rate VS 72% kill rate pos patch, so, survivor can play in high MMR and SWF, buuuttt, look my SOLO SURVIVOR STATS
Pre patch: 45% escape rate VS 28% escape rate now.
This game already needed Solo survivor improvement helps before, now its so much necessary. I am scary about silent from DEVS about this. Play as solo now, is so much boring, pain and worse than before. Play as Killer is fine now.
Right, like I said above the solo survivors always have a pretty significant gap in escape rates so I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re hovering around 38% escaped, maybe even lower. That’s why I said I really hope once the devs catch up on the current roadmap they get back to what they were working on for solo survivors.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/342002/stats-review-one-month-after-rework
So what I'm seeing is. Nurse isnt this impossible killing machine that I'm told she is. In fact plague and pig seem to be worse to face 🤔
What I'm seeing is. Your average nurse as a whole is not Alf, is not me, is not anyone you've heard of. Just like your typical survivor isn't ayrun, skirmz, anyone.
Keep in mind Nurse is unusual because her kill rate graph is probably an upward slant with low mmr Nurses having atrocious rates and very high MMR Nurses having really amazing kill rates against equally good survivors. So her average kill rate on this site and on the overall stats are probably lower than the rate she has if you look specifically at the top end, and I’m guessing there are a lot of prolific posters who are more in that upper bracket and see really excellent Nurses more often.
But yeah, for average players and even above average players Nurses won’t be playing literally perfectly and missing Blinks and her slow movement speed are punishing enough that even small misplays really hurt her. That’s why she’s in the top 3 above but not quite the top position, the players posting her results are above average but not all the top, top end.
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For sure! I only play a game or two a night so I never even come close to 100% completing a tome, so having all the old tomes available as additional challenges is great.🙂
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My guesses for possible tweaks are
- Remove one of the two god pallets in the main room in RPD
- Adjust Wesker’s collision box so he can slide past objects a little more easily
- Maybe tweak his interaction when he Bounds at a survivor in a window so he does an attack instead of just stopping dead in his tracks.
- Maybe adjust the action priorities of Bound and Desperate Measures so if a survivor is lifting a pallet with Desperate Measures Wesker vaulting over it cancels the Desperate Measures and not the other way around.
- Possibly tweak Reassurance to mitigate the potential for malicious swf survivors to intentionally keep a solo survivor on a hook indefinitely without rescuing them. (Changing it to be an opt-in or opt-out effect on the part of the Hooked survivor would do the trick.)
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@SuzuKR said:
What’s wrong with low skulls?
Bad posture, they eventually turn into Nurses.
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Total tangent but for a second I initially read
I would just like to respect my future landlord and not have my kitty and her kids (yes, kids, I made the mistake of letting her go out and get preggo, she's definitely spayed now (if anyone wants to adopt a kitten or two and are in the Midwest, lemme know)) destroy the new place.
As talking about “future landlord and HER kids” which made this whole sentence a lot funnier. 😄
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Speaking as a killer main myself killers don't really need an across the board buff like this at the moment, the kill rates are already slightly in our favor. Yes there are some balance differences between some killers but that doesn't mean they almost all need to be buffed.
- Trapper - Trapper I actually agree could use a change that lets him carry his traps at the beginning of the trial like his purple add-on. Honestly that's a much more fun way to play him, it gets rid of a lot of his downtime going around and picking up traps from random spots on the map. The other thing that he could use would be to make his traps translucent so they are roughly equally hard to see on every map (versus the current situation which is his traps are extremely easy to spot on maps with bright ground and/or no grass like Eyrie of Crows and The Game and a lot of the outside of Ormond, etc.
- The Wraith - I wouldn't turn down a slight buff for Wraith but he's probably ok.
- The Hillbilly - Hillbilly is one of my least favorite killers to play but it's a playstyle thing, not an effectiveness thing. I think Hillbilly is actually a decent killer in the hands of someone who can get mostly reliable hits with his chainsaw. (Which isn't me since I don't play him much.)
- The Nurse - Nurse is my least favorite killer, I can't stand how she stares at the ground half the match. I would gladly trade allowing her to keep her head up so she can see what's going on after a Blink in exchange for making the Blinks take longer to refresh. This became especially apparent once they unveiled Wesker who, despite obviously not being as powerful as Nurse since he can't go through walls, looks WAAAAY more fun to play from my perspective in part because during his Bound recoveries he actually keeps his head up. I would gladly give Nurse another go if they tweaked her with that change. (Also I think she should have a small, unobtrusive indicator of where she's blinking similar to Plaid Flannel but not as large and bright. That would make her more new player friendly without significantly increasing how good she is for veterans.)
- Huntress - Huntress is already one of if not the most played killers in Dead by Daylight and also has a decent kill rate across all brackets. She doesn't need a buff. That said, I do wish she had a small aiming reticle, even a dot. DbD is the only first person action game I can think of that has ranged attackers without any cross hair. It's pretty annoying, I don't know what they decided not to have one for her and Trickster. (Deathslinger aims down his gunsight so that's not an issue with him.) And no, a reticle isn't "a crutch", it's literally a feature in every single first person shooter I can think of.
- The Shape - Meyers base kit could maybe stand a small buff. Personally I don't like his base kit that much either way. But his playstyle add-ons are great! His Mirrors, Infinite Evil and Tombstone are all a ton of fun to use. 😄
- The Hag - Hag doesn't actually need a buff, she's got a decent kill rate and people who play her regularly do fine with her.
- The Doctor - Doctor's kill rate seems a bit low nowadays but I'm not sure he actually needs a buff. That said, I do kind of wish they would have his hallucinations actually chase survivors rather than just stand still. Maybe once they implement the bot AI this year they can import the pathing to use for his illusionary doppelgangers?
- The Cannibal - Bubba doesn't need a buff. He's right around the average kill rate and can be pretty powerful for people who are solid with his chainsaw. (And I'm not even talking about face camping Bubbas, I mean if you play him relatively normally and slug for pressure he's pretty brutal assuming you are good enough to get the leg up in the chases.)
- The Nightmare - There is one change I'd like for Freddy, let him have both snares AND pallets as his base kit and switch between them using the same sort of system Clown uses for his two gas types (i.e. tap the ability button to swap between Snares and Fake Pallets). Then tweak the add-ons that grant Fake Pallets to augment the pallets instead. That would give Freddy more flexibility during the match by letting him drop Pallets out of chase and Snares mid-chase, I think it would make him even more fun to play overall.
- The Pig - Pig is underrated, she's actually got one of the top kill rates in the game since her boxes got changed a couple of months ago. (She has a 68% kill rate on the aggregate site I follow for instance.) I like playing Pig so I wouldn't complain if they sped up her Crouch movement rate a bit, but honestly I don't think she needs it.
- The Clown - Clown is decent, I literally just played him tonight and got a 4k, but I wouldn't turn down him getting a very slight buff, maybe to speed up his bottle refresh? 🤷♂️ Honestly if he needs anything it would just be a small numerical tweak, not a more significant change.
- The Spirit - Spirit is fine, especially now that they toned down Iron Will, she doesn't need a buff. (She probably has a bit of trouble against Off the Record folks but otherwise she's in a good place.)
- The Legion - Legion doesn't really need a buff. Most of the complaints about Legion in fact aren't about them being weak, its about them making games take too long to finish. But their kill rate is actually pretty decent.
- The Plague - Plague is a tricky one, she can really snowball extremely fast if she gets going. On the other hand the Thanatophobia nerf is probably hurting her currently so who knows? 🤷♂️
- The Ghost Face - If Ghost Face needs something it would mainly be adjusting how easy it is for survivors to break him out of stealth. I think if it was harder to break him out from behind obstacles and around corners he'd get a bit more respect on the forums.
- The Demogrogon - Demogorgon is fine as is.
- The Oni - Oni is tricky because he's weak in the beginning but if he gets charged up he's a beast. Personally I wish his Demonic lunge was just a touch less clunky sometimes but that's about it.
- The Deathslinger - Deathslinger isn't bad. The only thing I wish they'd change on him is to make him turn at normal speed while aiming. He's the only ranged killer that can't turn at normal rate while aiming his weapon and it feels like he's steering through mud when he's got his rifle up. It's not even a balance thing, I just don't like how that feels compared to every other ranged attacker.
- The Executioner - Executioner is fine, he's actually got pretty solid anti-loop and his Cages are a bit underrated. (Using Cages shaves off about 10 seconds or so on average from having to carry someone to a hook on top of being immune to any save attempts. It's actually my favorite part of his kit!)
- The Blight - Yeah, Blight probably doesn't really need a change, other than possibly one of his add-ons is supposedly overpowered.
- The Twins - The only issue I have with Twins is Victor's lunge is kind of clunky sometimes, and also the time delay between switching characters feels just slightly too long. If they smoothed out those two minor things I think I'd be more excited to play them.
- The Trickster - Same comment as Huntress about I wish he had an aiming reticle.
- The Nemesis - Nemesis is ok although his zombie pathing could use a bit of work.
- The Cenobite - Pinhead is actually ok, he's not strong in 1v1 chases but his passive Chain Hunt makes up for it.
- The Artist - Artist isn't too bad, she has long range tracking built into her kit plus is great at zoning survivors away from strong vaults. I don't really get into playing her personally since I prefer the melee characters but I don't think she's weak.
- The Onryo - Sadako is a ton of fun to play, but I wouldn't mind if they got rid of her Lullaby while she's Undetectable. She's the only stealth killer that has a Lullaby like that, I don't know why they put that in.
- The Dredge - Dredge is my favorite character currently. I don't think he particularly needs a buff, he's pretty solid as is between his awesome mobility and his lengthy periods of Undetectability with limited survivor vision. He's maybe the only killer I've had a survivor tell me after the game they literally screamed from being jump scared. 😄
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They really just need to cap the number of times per second the animation and sound go off for flashlights to get rid of that annoying loud static sound macro.
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@botany_nerd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3140221#Comment_3140221
isn't calling them out just what they want though?
Well the subject of the thread is literally "WHY ARE PLAYERS LIKE THIS NOT BANNED" and the original poster was asking questions about how to submit feedback that players like that should be banned, that's why that topic came up.
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I don't play differently when I see a map offering but I definitely would be happier if the game didn't have them. They just exacerbate problems that come up when specific maps are broken or imbalanced by allowing people who want to abuse those areas to force the matches into them.
"But I'm tried of the random map generator sending me to the same map five times in a row!" Sure, I'm all for tweaking the random map selection algorithm so it never sends the players to any map they played in their most recent game so people don't get repeats. But that's a really minor thing compared to the problems map offerings cause and definitely not a reason not to keep the offerings around. (Seriously, how often do you see the same map more than twice in a row at most? It's exceedingly rare.)
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3139904#Comment_3139904
Rude, yes. Banned for that? No.
I agree, shouldn't be banned, but calling them out on it is fine.
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@CodeDB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3139884#Comment_3139884
Ooo, would hate to see it in my solo queue lobby but love the idea. I think I would replace Left Behind with Adrenaline and bring a map to help find hatch though. If the killer closes the hatch, you get a health state, a speed boost, and two perks to speed open the gate.
The first three perks in that build are actually the core ones because they all specifically trigger when you are the “last survivor alive”. So I wouldn’t replace any of those since that’s the whole gimmick. 🙂
You could swap out Wake Up for Adrenaline if you wanted though, that fourth slot is more flexible.
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@drsoontm said:
What? That's all? These are just badly raised brats being rude, why do you even care? They are nobodies.
I was expecting some death threat, or someone wishing something sick about health or about having an accident. (I've reported a survivor for using that level of nasty speech to an underperforming teammate yesterday.) This, however, is nothing.
How will you react the day you are confronted to something that's really bad?
I've already read you don't want to grow a thicker skin. That's your prerogative of course but life with get harder if you don't. You cannot seriously expect to be sheltered forever.
Just because something is allowed doesn’t mean it’s not rude. Even though I’m allowed to flip you off on the sidewalk for no reason it doesn’t mean you’re not in the right to think I’m acting like an a-hole.
You don’t have to be “sheltered” to think the person in the chat was being a jerk.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3139749#Comment_3139749
For me, it's about treating others how you wish to be treated. No one likes to get camped or tunneled so that's the reason to not do it.
What people really don’t like is losing and being eliminated early from a match. I’ve never had a survivor complain to me about tunneling or camping after a match if they won.
And yes, being eliminated sucks, it doesn’t mean I’m not going to kill survivors.
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On a tangent I was looking at an endgame “You Won’t Kill Me Too!” Survivor build with the new Lone Wolf perk. 🙂
- Left Behind - You can see the aura of the hatch within 32 meters when you're the last survivor.
- Low Profile - Suppresses your Scratches and Blood Pools when you are the last survivor for 90 seconds
- Sole Survivor - Hides your aura up to 72 meters based on how many other survivors have already died. When you are the last survivor you also repair gens 75% faster and open gates 50% faster. (You are also probably the killer's Obsession)
- Wake Up - Shows you the exit gates once they’re powered and also lets you open them faster.
Personally if I played this I would have it as the ultimate “just in case everybody dies”, not “I’ll just hide in a locker for 10 minutes and get hatch”, but that’s just me. 🤷♂️ Either way it definitely qualifies as an “endgame build”.
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Borrowed Time is still the number 8 most popular perk in the aggregate site I follow (14% usage). It used to be a whopping 37% before the rework which was obviously way too much!
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@Mysterioso said:
I have also been seeing tons of Myers. However, they've either been running scratched mirror myers on an indoor map or tombstone myers. Though there was one myers that was AFK and had dead rabbit and tombstone piece but I don't count him since he was AFK and returned end game. I've also been seeing tons of Freddys as well? Has this been happening to anyone else or is it just my luck?
I love playing as Scratched Mirror Meyers. It’s just too bad you can’t finish his daily ritual with it where you have to level up Evil four times. 🫤
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@Candyxo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3139729#Comment_3139729
Dude the animation is hilarious I hope it doesn't change I love seeing it.
Dab for your life!
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I don’t think it was literally the most powerful but honorable mention to the first rework of Boil Over that made it literally impossible to hook people on certain areas of certain maps.
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@SkeletalElite said:
The best way to understand the impact a movement speed perk has on chase time is to calculate what it does to the speed difference between you and the killer.
Dark theory makes you run at 4.08 m/s rather than the standard 4 m/s
A standard move-speed killer gains on a survivor at base speed at .6 m/s.
They gain on a survivor with dark theory at .52 m/s
They gain up on you 13.3% slower which really isn't much.
If there is a 12-meter gap between you and the lunge range of the killer it will take them an extra 3 seconds to catch up to you. A 12-meter gap is pretty sizeable for a chase, so it really doesn't have a considerable impact. 23 seconds instead of 20.
Edit: It is a little bit more helpful against a 110 killer, as a 12 meter gap for them normally takes 30 seconds but now takes 37.5. However, pretty much all 110 killers have chase powers makes their slower speed not quite as relevant and so it's still not great.
Right, the 2% is actually significant in terms of how long it takes a killer to catch up to you because it’s effectively closing the speed gap from 15% to 13% between the two of you (or even worse from 10% to 8%).
That said, what makes Boon Dark Theory not a great perk is it’s a limited range effect around a totem that can be snuffed. To get use out of it you have to be chased within that 24 meter radius which isn’t as large as it might seem. And even if you do there’s an excellent chance the killer will hear the Boon in the process and snuff it after the chase is over. So unless you got at least an extra 10-14 seconds out of the chase then you spent 14 seconds plus travel time setting up this effect for little reward. (And that’s assuming you even managed to get chased in that area which might not happen at all.)
To put it another way, they could probably make a survivor perk which increases your personal movement speed by 2% period, all the time no exceptions, and it would be a solid perk but not necessarily overpowered. This Boon is weaker than that.
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@Pulsar said:
It's objectively more skillful to 2 hook everyone than to tunnel someone out at 5 gens.
It's incredibly unfun for the player in question and it really isn't needed at most levels of play. People just use it as a crutch a lot of the time.
Not really. If you think about it having the foresight to know who you should hook and who you should skip or slug is a skill you develop with increased strategic knowledge of the game. Simply chasing down and immediately hooking every survivor you see is actually the mentally simplest plan strategically. It’s only more “skillful” in the sense that you’ll only win that way if you are very good at individual chases. It’s like the difference between “working hard and working smart”, showing you know when to slug or redown someone is showing you actually understand the overall way the game works more than if you just doggedly chase the person in front of you.
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The devs commented a month or two ago that the idea is still on the to-do list but got pushed back this year because of everything else going on in the 2022 roadmap (the perk rework, bots, etc.) So it was more a matter of prioritizing what they wanted in the immediate pipeline than necessarily not being able to eventually get it in the game. (And it probably is a bit trickier than it sounds also, if it were actually extremely easy to do they would have just done it in January when they showed the prototype.)
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Some builds I’ve been having fun with
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Backpack! Backpack!
- Perks: Agitation, Mad Grit, Starstruck, Forced Penance
Strategy is simple, when you down someone just pick them up immediately and carry them as far as you can toward a hook near the other survivors. Odds are quite good that on the first carry or two (if not more) the survivors will not immediately realize what you’re doing and either will keep working on the gens in that area or will try and harass and bodyblock you. And in either case it often results in free downs and broken survivors. Just the other night I got a 4k with Deathslinger Backing around in part because my first down quickly turned onto three downs. Of course after that they know to stay away while you carry people, but by then you have pressure built up and they panic whenever you carry someone toward them which slows the progress too.
Definitely a gimmick but a fun one, especially on Scratched Mirror Meyers since he moves faster with Agitation then he does normally and is still Undetectable while carrying survivors. (You just have to swap out Starstruck for Iron Grasp. No instant downs but you get to travel even farther and still get to do Broken hits.)
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Juggernaut
Perks - Enduring, Brutal Strength, Bamboozle, Fire Up
Again, very simple. You force every pallet, smash it, and keep going. If they run toward a strong window you vault super quickly through it after them and block it behind you. You do have to be mindful that you have no slowdown in the build, so it’s important to keep juggling the survivors for pressure in the early game so you have the time to create big dead zones with all the pallet smashing, but if you play it right then by midgame when they have two or three gens done Fire Up will be working and you will have already smashed enough pallets that any remaining ones are toast very quickly and they have nowhere to run. Lots of fun if you like going all in on chase perks. 🙂
And again this is a fun one on Meyers. I like to use Infinite Evil, once he hits Evil 3 his vault speed with this build is nuts. It’s about as close to the meme of him smashing through the door as you can get. 😄
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Scourge Hooks
Perks: All four Scourge Hook perks
Down them, carry to a Scourge Hook including the basement, head out and do it again, (Don’t stand around the hook or you lose the Monstrous Shrine quicker hook timer.)
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The Anti-Popular Perk Perks
This one is a new one I’m messing with. It’s four perks that directly counter the most picked survivor perks on an aggregate site I follow.
- Discordance - Counters Prove Thyself since it tells you immediately whenever more than one survivor is on a gen.
- Hex: Third Seal - Counters Windows of Opportunity (which believe it or not is the top picked survivor perk at the moment,) The nice thing is negating Windows is potentially handy in a chase even if the survivor is on comms, so even if you’re against a team that isn’t bothered by not seeing dying teammate auras or hooks you still are maybe keeping them from knowing where to run to get to an undropped pallet.
- Blood Echo - Counters Lithe, Sprint, and Dead Hard. Blood Echo isn’t great overall since it has various preconditions but it does gain some value in a meta where all survivors use Exhaustion perks.
- Terminus (after Wesker comes out) or NOED - Counters Adrenaline instantly healing an injured survivor to full health if the last gen is completed. Terminus is a more direct counter to that, it simply makes anybody who is injured in the endgame Broken. NOED has an even stronger effect, making everyone one-shot downable regardless of health, but also doesn’t last as long as Terminus since it’s a Hex.
Mind you, this isn’t “the best” build, but it is interesting in that each part of it does specifically target perks that are really popular right now.
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Gotta Block Em All
Perks - Dead Man’s Switch, Deadlock, Thrilling Tremors, No Way Out
Send the Entity a thank you note for doing all the heavy lifting for you blocking everything. The gens get blocked over and over with this build, and if they ever do finish them the gates get blocked for 60 seconds as well. You can even go further and play either Freddy or Ghostface who both have add-ons which block things (Freddy has a red add-on that blocks just opened Exits for 15 seconds, and Ghost Face has an add-on which blocks generators that someone who was just Marked was repairing.) You even get a bit of decent tracking info by watching which gens become blocked or not from the various perks.
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Bad Medicine
Perks - Coulrophobia, Unnerving Presence, Septic Touch, Distressing
You have a larger than normal terror radius and everybody in it is going to be sorely punished when they try to heal. Healing takes twice as long, gets more healing checks than normal, the checks spin more quickly and are 60% smaller in size. Plus survivors are Exhausted and Blind while healing and that persists for a bit after they stop. If you want to go all in you can run it on Doctor using two Calm add-ons to make the terror radius massive, or once Wesker is out he has a larger than normal 40 meter radius already which makes It cover most of the map with Distressing if he’s in the center. 🙂
As an alternative you can swap out Distressing for Sloppy Butcher as well. Your radius is smaller but their healing is even worse when they’re in it.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
"it's like a reverse pentimento with nothing to counter it" no it's not it just nullifies the penalty when you work on same gen, it's not a 30% boost, it's far worse when 3 people are doing 3 different gens at the same time, you're losing much quicker
Right, just to put this in context, two survivors working on a gen from start to finish with no other effects involved takes about 53 seconds. If one of the survivors has Prove Thyself it take 46 seconds. So the perk is shaving off about 7 seconds from start to finish if they work together on it the entire time.
Looking then at two generators
- Two survivors each working separately on a single generator simultaneously with no perks will finish both in 90 seconds
- Two survivors who pair up on the same generator, finish it, and then pair up again on a second generator and finish that will complete both generators in 106 seconds (16 seconds longer)
- Two survivors who pair up on the same generator with one having Prove Thyself who complete that and then go complete a second generator will take 92 seconds (2 seconds longer than if they each did the gens solo)
Therefore basically Prove Thyself is really just making it so if two survivors work on the same generator and then moving to another generator takes the same amount of time (plus a couple of seconds) as if they split up and did the two gens simultaneously. They're not technically finishing them any faster that they would solo.
So why use Prove Thyself? Because unlike the idealized cases above survivors sometimes end up having to pair up on generators even if they don't necessarily want to. Maybe one of the survivors isn't sure where another gen is yet, maybe they're working on a key generator to break up a possible 3-gen endgame, maybe the generator is close enough to being finished that a second person pushing it can lock it in before the killer gets there. If you think about it, finishing one gen first and then the other runs less risk of being undone than simultaneously working on two gens over the same period because you're "locking in" half the progress half way through.
Thus a survivor on the team having Prove Thyself improves survivors' flexibility on which gens they can work on while still getting as much time efficiency as possible, and also lets survivors lock in their progress more quickly so a killer can't undo it with regression. It's no wonder then that it's one of the most popular perks currently. (Windows of Opportunity is actually the most picked perk at the moment apparently, but Prove Thyself is a close second.)
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@Kaapskaaps said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3138526#Comment_3138526
Otherwise these changes would be great but I disagree on retribution and ruin. Retribution in my opinion is more like undying: to be paired with other hex perks and I don't think it needs a change really. It's a pretty strong with haunted grounds for example. It needs a build around it but it's still pretty good.
Ruin could get bit of a buff but I think bringing it back to 200% is still too much. Around 120-150% would be more than enough since survivors would still need to find and cleanse it or we're probably just going back to the stale ruin undying meta.
That's the thing with Retribution, it's "good" with Haunted Grounds but not necessarily "great". Basically you're spending two perks to get maybe one extra instant down compared to running Haunted Grounds by itself.
Like I said earlier, Retribution is I think on par with the old version of Lethal Pursuer before it got the extra effect that increases aura duration. Except it's slightly worse because it might be showing you auras when you don't actually need them and can't capitalize on them, and if you're unlucky it might not even ever trigger at all depending on if the survivors aren't cleansing and what else you run with it. It just feels like it could use a bit of a buff.
As far as Ruin goes, I'm open to the possibility of it being 150% instead of 200% depending on the stats the devs are seeing. Either way though 100% seems too slow.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3138526#Comment_3138526
I definitely do not agree with this list for hexes.
Blood Favour - You can just hold-w most of the time. In order for this hex to be game-changing, it would need break standing pallets
Hex:crowd control: - Doesn't do anything, just makes survivor drop pallets sooner, For it to be game-changing, it should block all windows until cleansed
Hex:Lullaby - Prevents you from getting consistent great skill-checks, does not matter against strong players. 10% faster dial speed per token up to 50% might making it do something. Get a better skill-checks and you can completely ignore this perk
Devour hope - Comes online too late into the match for most killers, If you loop well enough, you'll often never see its exposed effect until end game. Strong anti-loop killers that can use exposed can make good use of it. It would be better if this perk lost its token system and mori and gained exposed right at the start of the match. It would make it a strong option for stealth killers
Ruin - It was strong before patch. reverting regression would make it game-changing like before. it was only hex that you couldn't ignore.
Third seal - I'm not sure why this is a perk because it only hurts solo and does nothing for SWF. It is designed for 4 man slugging. I would change effect where it makes you lose 35% bleed out timer when another survivor heals another survivor from dying state to injured state. It would be game-changing for slugging.
Plaything - This perk is amazing for instant down killers because it allows you hit & run with 1 hits on all killers. It should lose its aura effect.
Haunted grounds - Only exists to make devour hope stronger. Ironically, it ends up being stronger then devour hope in most cases because devour hope often get cleansed before its relevancy making this perk proc more often than not. very strong on anti-loop killers where instant down works with their ability. arguably strongest non-noed hex.
Hex: Retribution - Not enough of reward for being a hex. This perk should be reworked to give permanent aura reading until broken.
Thrill of hunt - Why is this a hex? they should put shattered hope effect on this perk. it could be anti-boon perk. maybe it makes boons take 50% longer, increases hex cleansing time and allows killer to break the totem.
Hex: Undying: Only exists to make other hex perk relevant. its not worth using because none of hex are worth using. typically the best way to use this hex is to run haunted ground and try get survivor to proc 2 haunted grounds.
NOED: still grants late game kills, just less consistent.
main issue with hexes is that if you make all hexes game-changing, then the best builds ends up being 4 hex builds because they give you the most bang for your buck in term of perks. so they're largely flawed concept as perks.
the other issue with them is that killers don't like using them because they got no consistency. funny enough, the more hexes you use, the more consistent hex perks become which is also problematic for these perks.
- Blood Favour - What can I tell you, I get value out of it when I use it. 🤷♂️
- Crowd Control - Hexes don't need to be literally "game changing" to be useful. But I do agree that Crowd Control could use a buff.
- Lullaby - Again, I agree this one is too weak to be a Hex.
- Devour Hope - Devour Hope triggers after 3 hooks, not "only in the end game". If you're not getting 3 hooks by the "end game" you're playing badly.
- Ruin - reverting its regression would not be reverting it to its old version since the old version continued working after one death. I agree the current version is too slow, so I'm all for it returning to 200%, but they should keep in that it turns off after a death, that's fine.
- Third Seal - You answered your own question, it's a perk because it's effective in at least half the matches where everybody is solo queue. (When the devs have periodically shown data on it it's very roughly a 50-50 split between all solo survivor squads and survivors that include a 2-4 person swf). Also note that one of the top picked perks currently is Windows of Opportunity and Blindness is a direct counter to it, and that part at least works just fine against swfs too. What I'd like is for them to find a way to both buff solos so they have some additional information that swf players get on comms, and then if Third Seal is now too weak against solos buff it to do, say, Blindness and Exhaustion (similar to how Fearmonger and Septic Touch pair them together).
- Undying - I disagree that "none of the other Hexes are worth using". Again, I get good value out of Devour Hope, Blood Favour, and Haunted Grounds at the very least when I use them and Undying plus any of those is better than the sum their parts. Undying even works with the Plaything plus Pentimento combo that's in vogue.
- NOED - Yeah, NOED is fine as is, I agree.
So I'm not sure why you said you "disagree with this list of hexes", we seem to agree on a bunch of them.
Again, Hexes don't need to be "gaming changing", they just need to give good enough value over their expected life span to be worthwhile. Pentimento for example is strong but not "game changing" but it does give good enough slowdown if it stays up for at least a couple of minutes. Haunted Grounds is also not game changing and only lasts 60 seconds but giving a couple of instant downs in the early game can really shift the momentum.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3138805#Comment_3138805
Wake Up will activate if the killer closes hatch!
Interesting, I'm surprised it works differently from Rancor since they use the same phrasing ("When all Generators are completed...")
P.S. I took another look and the wording is just SLIGHTLY different between the two. Wake triggers "Once all Generators are powered...", while Rancor triggers "Once all Generators are completed...." It's a really subtle difference but technically closing the hatch "powers" all the generators, but doesn't "complete" them (which completing generators I suppose refers to the actual specific act of finishing the repairs on them.)
Thanks for pointing this out, Wake Up definitely fits that fourth slot then! 🙂
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None of the perks mentioned would be reverted because their original versions were problematic so why would they want to go back to them?
That said I could see them maybe doing some further tweaks (and note that they haven't ruled out additional changes, they're still monitoring everything.)
- Decisive Strike I could see going up to 4 seconds, a compromised between where it was and where it is.
- Self Care was underrated by a number of people on this forum because of players using it badly. Prior to the patch it was one of the top perks regardless of which MMR bracket you looked at. It's not like it was only used by new players who "didn't know better", it was used by the highest MMR players as well because it is honestly the most flexible of all the healing perks, allowing you to do healing actions on yourself anywhere and everywhere at will. No having to run to be in range of a Boon, no needing another survivor around to help, no medkit charges, just use it whenever you felt the need, even mid-chase for partial top offs and such. I can't speak to whether the current version could use a slight buff or not, but the old version was definitely better than a bunch of people think.
- Ruin is probably too slow now. I think it turning off after one survivor dies is perfectly fine to keep in place but given that limitation it would probably be ok to put its regression speed back to 200% since it's only in place while all the survivors are in the match and can still be cleansed even then.
- Pharmacy now can give multiple Green medkits instead of just one. Seems like a good change, what am I missing?
- Calm Spirit could have that action speed penalty removed and not be overpowered.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3138756#Comment_3138756
you want Wake Up as your 4th perk, and a key in your hand.
voila! now you can escape every trial without touching a single generator.
just what solo queue needs /s
I only have one question about Wake Up, though, I think it only activates when the Generators are completed. But if the Generators aren't finished, and the killer closes the hatch, I don't think Wake Up will activate will it? (It's similar to how Rancor doesn't activate when the killer closes the hatch.) So it would only help in the scenario when the last other survivor happens to die after all the generators are finished but before the doors are already open.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
If they remove zombies and make tentacle only 2 hits, i will gladly take this.
And finally they can add actual add-ons for my boy.
Zombies are useless and rng most times. So removing them will be good QoL for Nemmy with tentacle buffs.
I think the information the zombies give is actually pretty decent.
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So this thread got me thinking, what would be a fun "Last Survivor Standing" loadout? 🙂
I'm thinking something like this:
- Left Behind - You can see the aura of the hatch within 32 meters when you're the last survivor.
- Low Profile - Suppresses your Scratches and Blood Pools when you are the last survivor for 90 seconds
- Sole Survivor - Hides your aura up to 72 meters based on how many other survivors have already died. When you are the last survivor you also repair gens 75% faster and open gates 50% faster. (You are also probably the killer's Obsession)
- (optional)
- Off the Record - Hides auras and suppresses sounds after unhook for 80 seconds, also Endurance until you do a Conspicuous action.
- Iron Will - Reduces sounds while Injured and not Exhausted
- Unbreakable - Recover from dying once per trial and recover faster while dying
- Tenacity - Crawl faster while dying with 75% reduce Grunts of Pain
The first three perks are kind of obvious, the fourth slot is more flexible. I'm thinking if you're the last survivor left then one of the optional perks I listed might be an ok choice to compliment the other three. Basically that fourth slot either makes you harder to hear, lets you stand up if the killer tries to slug you while they hook someone else, or if they slug you while they look for someone else lets you crawl quickly toward the hatch to slink out. (I also considered Distortion but Sole Survivor already hides your aura within a very wide area by the time you're the last one alive so it felt like too much duplication.)
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I try to win, sure. I don't particularly care about pips or my MMR though, they do whatever they do and I just play as if they're not even a thing.
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I’ll just buy Wesker, I don’t play survivor enough to worry about the survivors.
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Great now I’ll have Avril Levigne stuck in my head all day. 🤦♂️
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3138376#Comment_3138376
It was popular before. I saw it on 2/4 survs on average I'd say.
It was used but its popularity has gone up. It used to be around 15%, now it’s around 20%. Here’s a snapshot showing the two week period usage percentages for Windows back to March.
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You’re not but I wish the devs had clearly made the survivors actually win or lose as a team from the outset. Semi-cooperative game design rarely works well.
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So one of the arguments made for hexes is that its a risk reward system that justifies their "game changing effects" or something along those lines. However most of the hexes power doesnt justify this line of thinking. One that comes to mind and has been this way for awhile is huntress lullaby. A new comer being Ruin.
Hexes on the whole as a mechanic are fine, it’s just certain specific Hexes like Huntress Lullaby and Ruin that could use a buff. So really you have to look at each Hex individually and adjust its effect if needed given how Hexes work in general.
Just going down the list
- Blood Favour - This is actually not bad. I use it periodically and typically get free hits and downs from it before it’s eventually cleansed.
- Crowd Control - Maybe could use a slight buff? Technically it can block windows slightly easier than Bamboozle but the disadvantage to this compared to Bamboozle is you can’t actively pre-block a window before the survivor vaults it. For example, say you are approaching shack. With Bamboozle you can vault the window before the survivor does to block it in advance. With Crowd Control it doesn’t get blocked until after the survivor uses it which is a bit weaker. I could see this maybe getting a buff where survivors periodically have windows they are approaching be blocked with a cooldown rather than windows they just used. (So every 30 seconds if you are in a chase a window the survivor you are chasing approaches gets blocked for a short term.)
- Devour Hope - Maybe my favorite Hex. 🙂 This is the epitome of high risk high reward, if the survivors cleanse it early you get nothing but it they ignore it too long you get huge value. No need to change it.
- Haunted Ground - Pretty good effect. I typically get 1-3 instant downs from it somewhat early in the match when I use it because invariably some survivor destroys it. Yeah, in theory survivors shouldn’t do that without knowing what the Hex probably is, but they do. 😄
- Huntress Lullaby - This definitely doesn’t need to be a Hex at all. It could literally just be a perk that says “survivors don’t get sound queues on their skill checks” and it still probably wouldn’t be overpowered.
- No One Escapes Death - Obviously the effect is Hex worthy. It also just got a nerf to make it easier to find after it triggers so it’s probably fine as is.
- Plaything - Making a survivor permanently Oblivious until they cleanse the totem isn’t a bad effect, probably ok as is.
- Retribution - This one I could see maybe getting a bit of a buff. The aura it gives is decent but it only triggers once per match, so it’s a bit like Lethal Pursuer once per match only with unpredictable timing and it doesn’t buff other aura durations. Feels like this could be buffed and still not be overpowered as a one-shot Hex.
- Ruin - The new version’s regression is probably too slow considering it’s a Hex. I’m ok with it turning off after someone dies, but they could probably keep the old 200% speed in that case.
- Third Seal - This is tricky because Blindness can be really great against solo queue and average survivors but is a lot less useful against swfs and excellent survivors. I’m not sure how you could buff the effect against the top end without making it overpowered on average.
- Thrill of the Hunt - Probably too weak as a Hex as is, especially on its own. It does provide additional slowdown if the survivors are placing a lot of Boons and you keep reseting them but is that worth being a Hex? Feels like it could just be a normal perk that says “survivors take X seconds longer to cleanse or Bless totems” and it would still be ok.
- Undying - Obviously not that great by itself but combined with a second or third or fourth good Hex it’s solid.
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I don’t know that Piggie actually needs a buff, she has a surprisingly high kill rate considering how many people think she’s weak (in fact she has a 70% kill rate on the aggregate site I follow, the highest of any killer there). I think one reason is that the change to her boxes a couple months ago did improve her slowdown from them and also increased the chances of a survivor accidentally being killed by not getting a trap off in time. She also benefited overall from the kill buffs in the perk rework like other basic attack killers did. And finally the number of survivors who run Spine Chill has dropped by half since the patch which definitely works in her favor too.
Mind you, I totally get that her high kill rate is partly because she is more effective against average and solo queue survivors than top end survivors and swfs, just like every other stealth killer. Even so, in the overall picture, she’s better than some people give her credit for, especially now.
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@JakeCannon said:
Just curious (only to killers who aren't gods & don't get 4k every single game) how long does it usually take you to get to iri?
I only play 1 or 2 matches a night so I don’t get to Iri, just not enough matches in a month at that rate (I have a decent win rate but not THAT high! 😄)
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3138424#Comment_3138424
You don't get bodyblocked on indoor maps very often then, i take it.
Autohaven? sure. Midwitch? The hook spawns can be rough to begin with regardless of even trying for a scourge.
I get people TRYING to bodyblock pretty often. I don’t get them succeeding that much.
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Honestly I’d be ok with perk tiers being removed altogether, it just creates a lot more clutter than is really necessary. But it’s also probably a ton of work to do for a mostly small benefit so might not be worth the hassle.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3138410#Comment_3138410
Seeing them doesnt stop their awful spawn RNG, which is what you were describing in your original post. Doesnt matter if you see their aura if 3 of them are clustered in a far corner of the map.
Killers run it because they have no choice lmao. If you think any of them are ever happy about losing hooks because they were too far/people bodyblocked/etc especially when using scourge hook perks, you are just plain being dishonest.
Oh, and to completely invalidate your other argument, survivors actually control the direction chases take, not killers. Survivors can also see these auras by running sabotage, giving them the actual advantage on whether the killer ever gets them or not, complete with the ability to temporarily remove them from play when they know which ones the killer is going to attempt to get.
I’m quite happy running Scourge Hooks personally, I don’t miss nearly as many hooks as you seem to think is common.
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@Laluzi said:
I think it would be better to make boons only affect a single floor than to inadvertently nerf hexes along with them. Some of those are the best hex spots on their map, especially when you have derpy totems out in the open on the newest maps and we all know what our replacements would be.
Plucking second-story totems from maps like Badham and Thompson House still wouldn't solve the issue of boons being extremely powerful in two-floor maps, as every boon spot not in the corner of the map suddenly becomes very strong for all boons, not just CoH, and you can't really solve that by making the totems easier to find.
There is a difference though between multifloor maps like The Game and buildings like Ironworks in that The Game has a smaller level size and multiple ways up and down between floors plus generators on both floors. So the totem spots on it are actually not that hard to reach during normal patrols even if they’re above or below you. With Ironworks though the second floor totem is not just on another floor it’s also got a really long route to take to get to it plus there’s not any reason to even go up there at all other than that the totem is there. So a trip to snuff that Ironworks upper floor spot isn’t something you can do in the normal course of business, you have to make a special lenghty trip explicitly for it.
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@Darkwraith13 said:
I still believe they should re-work breakdown to permanently destroy the first hook you’re unhooked from. Kind of like shattered hope for killers that would be breakdown for survivors.
3 minutes is already very long. And it works up to twice per match.
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Tell me you spend a lot of time setting up Boons without telling me you spend a lot of time setting up Boons. 😉