danielmaster87
danielmaster87
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In other words, you don't have anything to say why I'm wrong.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2868868#Comment_2868868
Well there's a difference between lessening the RNG aspect of it and making it usable all the time. The perks aren't designed to be able to be used after every hook, that's why there are only 4 scourge hooks (and if it did work on every hook, then there'd be no point in the scourge hook mechanic anyway, you could just say "After every unhook see the auras of all other survivors for 7 seconds"). Gift of Pain might be fine if it worked on every hook because right now that perk is weak, but it'd make the others a bit too strong imo.
If the perk's design is that self-defeating, that it's only supposed to be used some of the time, then it's our job to improve the perk don't you think? And I don't think it would make them too strong. The strongest scourge hook is Pain Resonance, but it's a reverse power creep of Pop in every way, with the exception of it being combo'd with Dead Man's Switch. And even then, that combo is easily countered. The survivors can just let go of the gen before the killer hooks, and if they come then it gets blocked, but that's just one gen at that point, which isn't regressing, and doesn't mean 1-2 survivors aren't working on other gens. The survivors really have to give the killer lots of hooks and fall for the scream blockage multiple times for the combo to be worth it.
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@randonly said:
I believe the 4 scourge hooks are enough. At least until there are changes that make the DMS + PR combo less oppressive (with certain killers it's already too easy to zone the survivor close to them - scourge hooks-, but if you use agitation then, even easier)
That combo isn't oppressive. I can't remember killer ever having an oppressive perk combo actually.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I think they just need to tweak the spawns a bit so they can’t all be next to each other on one side of the map and the other half has nothing. Gift of Pain also needs a buff.
@Reshy said:
They need to have a minium amount of distance, and for larger maps more of them should be scourge hooks.
@DoritoHead said:
Maybe a way to make these a little more consistent would be to add a minimum distance that they can spawn in relation to each other and maybe to make all of the basement's hooks Scourge Hooks.
Yes, that would make them more consistent, but that's not going far enough. I'm assuming you want to tweak the spawns so that killers can actually use their perk, right? Why, then, can't they just be on all the hooks? It achieves the same result. If that's OP, how exactly?
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@bjorksnas said:
I still think instead a good change to scourge hooks would be to not have them spawn in but have the first 4 unique hooks you use (not basement hooks) become scourge hooks and proc their effects on the hooked survivor.
Now you get some choice in the hook location and can try your best to make the best use of them as well as guaranteed usage for your first 4 unique hook locations
The same problem arises here as in the "hooks getting permanently destroyed from a sacrifice" issue. You can't control where survivors are gonna go down, so with your idea, they have majority control over where your scourge hooks are gonna be, and that could all be on one side of the map once again. And with that we'd come full circle.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2868397#Comment_2868397
That's the idea, yeah. Thinking about the possibility of that being too strong, a couple ideas I had to mitigate:
Each basement hook can act as a Scourge Hook once, so instead of four more Scourge hooks you get four one-shot Scourge Hooks.
Every time a basement hook is in use a Scourge Hook on the field deactivates until the survivor is saved or sacrificed, at which point it reactivates. So you still have four Scourge Hooks, but using one in the basement may stop you being able to use one in the field.
There's no reason to make any further limits on scourge hooks. You are quite literally appeasing survivor mains.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Pain Resonance is one of the best killer perks in the game right now, and Floods of Rage is really good too, it's only really Gift of Pain that's underwhelming.
The fact that you either have to spend extra time getting to a Scourge Hook or you're not always able to reach a Scourge Hook is what allows them to have stronger effects. Also, wouldn't making every hook a Scourge Hook delete the perk type?
Scourge hooks cannot be the best perks in the game under any circumstances right now, not only because there's only 4 of them so their placement can screw you out of using them, but also they're really not that strong. Survivors who give the killer's constant hooks make Pain Resonance seem strong, and it only gives a portion of Pop's Regression, just with no walking time. Against better teams, you're lucky to get 5 hooks before the gens are done. Unless you think we should be balancing around worse players.
And you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying we should make scourge hooks basekit. I'm saying when you equip a scourge hook perk, all the hooks on the map should change into them. It wouldn't get rid of the perk type.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
I might sound like a survivor main but that’s a terrible idea. This would promote an unhealthy amount of camping. Let’s say you run Pain resonance(be honest it’s the best one). You can camp the one hook and always get value out of it that’s not fun to deal with. Also does Basement become scourge hooks
How would it promote camping? You've got the perk on; you should get to use it. If all hooks are scourge hooks, how does that make the nature of scourge hooks more campier (allegedly) than they are right now? Sure, you'll get value off the first scourge hook, but as long as people aren't giving the killer free hook trades all match, in which case they lose anyway, there's no reason for the killer to get as much value as you're making it seem like.
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@Zeidoktor said:
Another thread has discussed the possibility of buffing Monstrous Shrine so that the basement hooks can also act as Scourge Hooks.
But people say that if we make basement hooks scourge hooks, "It will encourage campin'!" Not if all hooks are scourge hooks anyway.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/315784/scourge-hooks-should-be-on-all-hooks
I think dev do think they're that strong and game-changing hence 4 limit. can't have killers getting a mini pop goes weasel reward per hook. can we? they could increase amount from 4->6. that would help. they feel like rework to hexes and obsession perks to reduce RNG only to re-add rng through hook spawns. At least perk does not disappear from entire game, silver lining.
It does if you sacrifice someone on the hook.
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@GoshJosh said:
I wouldn’t mind a minimum distance between the scourge hooks (that should be a given), but for me it’s a no to making all hooks become scourge hooks. That’s kinda the whole theme of the set of perks - hooks that stand out from the rest. They could also make additional scourge hooks spawn. Maybe a couple more at base, and/or for each scourge hook perk you have equipped.
They don't have to stand out from the rest on the map. They can stand out from the rest between matches, since some matches will have scourge hooks and some won't.
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He looks very rodent-like, his ears stick out, and that nose is way too big.
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The devs are already on your side with this one. They've wanted to make sure that tbagging was still "satisfying" when they were gonna bring in the new animations last year.
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@Yatol said:
Look away
It's not hard to do. I do it sometimes as killer, even when it turns out none of the survivors had it. It can stop them from getting that 6% boost for a few more seconds and finishing the gen in your face.
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@Ravakahr said:
Spine chill is fine the way it is. Get better at the game get rank 1 killer and survivor and you quickly realise its NOT OP and you'll be crying you didn't have DS or UB.
Whats next nerf adrenaline? TO OP?
I used to think Adrenaline was OP. It's just an annoying perk, and potentially second chance/win more. Not as applicable as Dead Hard or Unbreakable though, because all of the gens actually have to be done, so I let it slide.
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Because survivors are OP even without CoH.
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Default. I've come too far to turn back now.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2866391#Comment_2866391
I said on killers who can down people easily in a deadzone. I do it on Plague and Bubba, both of whom are ridiculous at it.
You want to see a stream of a guy who goes on 50+ winstreaks using call of brine at max MMR? I will link it to you. I don't need to sit here and argue with you when the evidence it works is right in front of my face and is recorded for all to see. If 50+ wins in a row isn't viable, I don't know what is.
No way he got 50 wins in a row against competent, organized survivors. All it takes is facing 1 good team to take away your streak. The game doesn't give you a win as killer just because you played well enough. The survivors have to make mistakes.
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@FrostyEyesSusie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2864141#Comment_2864141
That's because Dead Hard is a bad exhaustion perk for going against her. Which is why Nurse is so awesome. She puts all the easy crutches entitled survivors are accustomed to rely on and turns them upside down. We really need more Nurse-like designs in this game.
I recently learned that she insta-attacks like that if she presses the attack button while she's blinking. It still doesn't mean it's fair though. Because it's not like we waited too long to use Dead Hard either. By the time we realize she's blinked on us, it's already too late because her attack comes out before we can even knee jerk button press.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2866429#Comment_2866429
Of course not. If he engages or you see him approach from afar you have to have a plan. This is where your map/LoS knowledge will shine.
I am just emphasizing on the fact that he is not meant to be looped like a Trapper. You have to be aware on how long it is taking for him to T3. If it’s too long then you know he probably has it.
You can say he doesn’t earn his power, yet we have killers who you literally cannot do anything against their one-shots that do not even need to “stare”. Stalking isn’t as easy if the survivor understands how he works. Just because you are getting potato survivors doesn’t make it the killer’s problem.
Like are you complaining about Tombstone piece or Michael in general? Cuz you seem to be saying two different things.
I don't like the killer's design in general. But of all the strong add-ons people use on him, I prefer to face Hair Bow because it takes the most skill. Having tier 3 forever, stealth forever, or the ability to instantly mori someone out of the game, I don't like.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
The counterplay for Tombstone isn’t just “jump in a locker” … it’s also stalling his T3 as much as possible.
I firmly believe people need to play Myers because the reason I believe many get fed on is because they underestimate his power (I.E. He iS jUST AN M1 kiLlEr) So they don’t play ‘safe’ and frolic around the map as if they are going to loop with no problem.
I’ve been a Myers main since I can remember and I see a lot of survivors not even hiding well because they have no problem feeding him. That is until the tables turn.
People generally like to vs Michael and I too agree with this. Because he is far from brain dead like some of the other killers. He actually feels like he earns his expose power.
It is jump in a locker if you don't want to get instantly cheesed out of the game. Are you suggesting that people just hide from him every time he gets near? I thought breaking los as often as possible would suffice, because if he's on you he's on you. You can't stop his stalking. You can only mitigate it. And he'd be dumb to just let you go, because even if he's only getting half-second glimpses on you, it's worth it because of the stalking add-on. I don't like to vs Michael unless my team is good, because he's not all that unless he uses crutch add-ons like Tombstone Piece. No, he absolutely does not earn his power, because he just stares at you.
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If the blinking in and out is synched on the killer and the survivor side, keep it. If not, there's no point in having the killer see it.
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Feng's always gonna look weird, let's be honest.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/315631/theres-only-1-build-myers-has-thats-fun-to-vs
I spent way too much BP to maintain my Vanity Mirror + Dead Rabbit + Monitor sneaky Myers. It's so much fun.
Definitely not the best on some maps, or versus a strong SWF, but I love the aura reading and I really do get the sense that I'm occasionally scaring the pants off people.
Myers is just a cozy killer. He's not the best, but he's so intuitive to play.
I like the idea of Vanity Mirror, and consider playing it on occasion just because it was buffed a while back, just like Adrenaline Vial more recently. But it's the opposite extreme of what you normally face when you're survivor. Instead of it being too difficult or too annoying, it's just weak and you never feel like the killer is a threat, assuming your teammates aren't absolute plonkers. Trust me, the only players you're scaring with him are noobs, probably the same ones that say that "killers having aura reading of any kind is OP".
So that build you have for it, the survivors' reaction time is just as if you were in tier 1, right? If so, I need to give it a try.
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@WesCravenFan said:
Imagine thinking that a Killer's design should be built around the standpoint of how much fun it is for the SURVIVORS.
This is why people say Killers are treated like birthday clowns.
I never said the game should be balanced around survivor fun. But it should be a factor. And as a mostly killer player, it's very infuriating to play your heart out at top MMR and get 0-1 kills, yet when I switch to survivor the killer who displayed zero effort or skill, aside from staring at people, gets at least as many kills as I do in my games, simply because of an add-on. And it's a bottom-mid tier killer at that, which should really be getting no kills against good teams. But being super good as survivor can only take you so far when the killer just has to look at you and press a button to kill you. Not even just an instadown; a kill. And don't get me started on those other polarizing add-ons.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2866119#Comment_2866119
J.Myers+Hairbow+Bamboozle is the build I use for Myers. He only has control over windows. I'd say bamboozle is generally the perk that people use to defend myer is saying he is not the worst base-kit killer. I'd say playing against it is kinda boring because it makes you not want to greed window loops as survivor and just do safe loops around pallets and shift+W.
a large majority of window loops are fair and have mindgames to them. This is only good for the previously badly balanced windows of DBD that no longer exist, though very few remain.
scratch mirror is weird. All you do against scratch mirror is heal under pallets because he sucks at loops. he is so slow that you can loop around pallets like 10+ times before ever putting down the pallet. Ironically, Self-care is like S-tier perk against this. Most people just camp hooks with it. You can run a nemesis+pwyf build with it to actually play the game with myers, but I do not even know why myer has tier 1 to begin with for how bad this is without those perks.
Vanity mirror+dead rabbit is kinda a meme, just basic m1 killer. Its stronger Amanda letter due to no m/s penalties from crouching
Tuft of hair is 3 generator add-on. the penalties of longer stalking are basically irrelevant if your just camping last 3 generators. Its overall not really good because part of myer's strength is his ability to 99 his stalk and than instantly pop his instant down. in the later part of the game, this is just insidious leatherface 2.0.
J.Myers+Tombstone piece is strong version of myer that lame to play against. Lockers are not only counter to getting mori. Holding generator is counter. Cleansing totem is a counter. Spamming fast vaulting pallets can counter it. The aribitary problem is that this add-on either auto-win chases indirectly by survivor doing stupid things. The drawback of add-on is that he loses expose ability. Overall this add-on is just escape T2 m1 killer as 3vs1 challenge.
I don't think any of myer's versions are interesting to play against. they're all boring for different reasons. The default is pallet break simulator. One of them is camping machine. 2 of them are just part of joke that stealth killers are. The last one is challenge but overall not a very interesting one.
Overall agreed. I disagree with in the idea that "this just wins if you 3-gen", as I think 3-genning is severely overrated. I've let my reasoning behind that be known in the recent discussion called "Call of Brine". There's also counterplay to Bamboozle even, because if you see that the killer is going for a window vault, or you can predict that he's gonna, you can just hold forward to the next loop. That counters Hillbilly, Leatherface, and Wraith a lot when they use Bamboozle. And yes, Myers is overall a pretty boring killer to play against. With him and Ghost Face both, they just stare at you and get instadowns. Not very engaging for either side.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2866219#Comment_2866219
It literally brought the 3 gen strat back. People who think it is bad are baby killers. You clear out the pallets on a killer who can down people quickly in a deadzone and it's lights out for 90% of solo Q teams.
Lol. 3-genning isn't "back" because it hasn't been viable in forever. Bad solos lose to it, sure. But what about SWF, or just survivors with brains? When the killer is 3-genning, which is the survivors' own fault, and there's no pallets around that area, also the survivors' own fault, all they have to do is push 2 gens at once, and when the killer is coming their way hold W. The gens are never THAT close to each other, and as soon as you get close to 1 gen, the other gen will start getting worked on. You're also assuming that your killer can instadown, in which case the survivors should be playing even safer, and when you're not an instadown killer, they can just take a hit, run away, and heal which is super easy now because of CoH. And because survivors can progress gens faster than you can regress them, they always should win the war of attrition which is central to the 3-gen strategy's design. Even in 3v1s, the survivors can overcome a 3-gen. It's just that they'll get punished harder for someone getting downed and hooked, which they should be avoiding at all costs anyway when they see the killer is 3-genning. You're probably also assuming that the gens are always all at 0 when the 3-gen is first created, or that some kind of significant gen regression (which isn't really a thing) is still in play for the killer, like Ruin or something. Call of Brine is just Ruin but you have to drop chase and waste time kicking for it to do anything, and then the survivors can just tap it to stop the regression. Yeah, you'll get a notification when they hit a skill check, but by the time you get back there either noteworthy progress has already been made an that gen, or the survivors come while your back's turned and work on the other gen. Survivors literally have no less control in a 3-gen than they do in a regular scenario.
Sorry to rail so hard against this, but I'm kind of tired of people pretending that we're still living in 2018 where people not only played worse, but they didn't even have a name for 3-gens, and probably never created them intentionally. Do y'all never experience any of the exceptions I've listed above when you're trying to 3-gen, or do the survivors just like making it easy on you? Sure, you're not going to face a team competent enough to beat a 3-gen every time, that's not what I'm saying. But you will face them at some point. If you're winning as much with 3-gens, every time or almost every time as you claim, your MMR will be raised enough to at least semi-regularly face the survivors that do exactly what I've said above.
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She's very hard to play and very unforgiving if you're not right on top of survivors when you blink to them and swing at them. On console she's even harder. But trust me, at top level her strength is just breaking even with the survivors' gen speed.
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I have yet to see a good excuse as to why this is still in the game.
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It's probably your teammates too. She's just an M1 killer but they go down to her like every 30 seconds.
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Every killer perk is oppressive for new players.
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They don't do anything anymore.
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I probably play less Hillbilly just because every other match with him I get this map.
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It's not good on its own, and it should probably be part of the base game for killer.
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If it gives you an advantage, and it's in the game, you're free to use it. People might get angry at you for it, but they should be blaming the game design, not you.
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@BubbaDredge said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ORqty-XF_k
This looks like it would be fun to go against.
ManFaceJay does some great Tier 1 Myers videos, this is one of them.
Trust me, it's not. Especially when you're trying to get out of MMR hell.
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And increased movement speed and vaulting, especially with Bamboozle and/or PWYF which are popular on him.
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It was never meta. People tried it on Wraith, Deathslinger, and meme builds. The only killer that still uses it is Nurse.
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Only if the Myers has his tier 3 99'd should he camp, because then he can tap it and hook trade, or even get a positive trade. Maybe the survivors assumed he had that, so they didn't come.
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@BubbaDredge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2863077#Comment_2863077
You could try watching for the killer. The killer is supposed to have a power that you have to overcome, does it have to be a hard counter perk every time?
This forum has been from one extreme to the other for me. You've got survivor mains saying Adrenaline Vial is OP, and then you've got killer mains saying that Spine Chill is OP.
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I called all of this. As soon as I saw the rework, I said it was gonna be a worse perk. Seeing the yellow aura of a generator was always gonna be more useful than seeing a survivor's aura while they're on the gen, because they can just hide behind it like they can with BBQ. Yes, removing the basic attack was nice. Yes, the cooldown is more forgiving. But overall the perk is even less useful than before. This was basically a nerf on a perk that never saw play.
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No.
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It makes it a lot harder. It's no coincidence why I haven't played Spirit in months, and also hate Iron Will even as other killers. A perk countering a killer entirely opened my eyes to the perk's strength. People use Cherry Blossom for a reason.
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Wraith has superior "anti-loop", and Ghost Face has a superior crouch and stealth. All she has is her head traps.
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This would destroy her.
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It doesn't reward skill. The things that make either side win are 1-dimentional.
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The fact that gens can't be kicked or regress while they're blocked makes Deadlock a worse option for basekit.
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I don't see them often. Maybe 1 of each in the last month.
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She's strong but she's A tier at best. Way too much counterplay.
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@SonicOffline said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2864278#Comment_2864278
... But that isn't saying BT will be base kit. That is them dodging the question.
@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2864278#Comment_2864278
Contrary to popular belief that doesn't confirm BT basekit. It's speculation at most.
But why would they answer it like that? Anyone else would be like "No, we don't plan to do any of that". But he's like "Well... we don't plan to do the one thing."