Reshy
Reshy
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Sure, just so long as killer gets an offering that cuts the survivor's dying bleed out time in half.
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Honestly, I could see this being basekit, or at least on killers without a mobility or ranged power.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
COH is one of the most oppressive perks that a survivor can bring against a killer. A COH boon alone can allow a team to reset independently and alleviate a lot of the pressure that a killer can dish out by injuring people, not to mention it hard counters certain killers like Twins. As long as COH allows people to self-heal with no strings attached and at a very reasonable speed, it is far too strong. Not only this, but it is more time-efficient for the survivor to set up a boon over and over again than it is for a killer to kick it. The killer needs to go out of their way to 1) find the boon, 2) kick it, 3) do this for every time it gets set up. This is also a critical amount of time that a killer wastes where survivors are not actively being pressured. The only semi-counter to a boon is Shattered Hope, which will see no value if a team doesn't bring a boon, or brings one but resets it constantly throughout the match.
Medkits also suffer from the same issue but to a lesser extent, since they're limited in charges, can be seen in pre-game, and can be countered more universally along with other items with Franklin's or certain killers' powers.
COH specifically needs to have a much bigger downside to its use. Here are some ideas I came up with from least extreme to most extreme:
- Totems that have COH active shatter when kicked by the killer.
- Range for COH is reduced to 12m.
- Speed of self-healing without a medkit is slowed to 30%.
- Killer sees the aura of any active boon that has COH (either temporarily or permanently).
- Remove ability to self-care without a medkit entirely (buff healing speed to others to make up for this).
It's beyond demoralizing for a killer to start a game, and hear the sound effect for a boon 30 seconds into it. It's unacceptable for this perk to continue to exist under its current form.
I think the self heal should be removed, unless you also bring Self-Care.
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It'll stop when the game state stops forcing killers to do it. Like look at this bullshit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kkB7IcmMaIA lot of killers lack the ability to keep up with good survivors, so camping them out and forcing 2nd stage or a trade is more preferable when injuries don't matter.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kkB7IcmMaI@Crowman said:
Outside of Sadako, the main sound ques stealth killers have are really only heard when they are around striking range anyways. Stealth killers still have advantages on getting close to survivors without alerting them compared to killers who don't have any stealth abilities.
I mean it's unlikely you do get the drop on survivors even with a killer, and if the survivors are any decent I mean look at this video. Dredge isn't a stealth killer, but even then he struggles to actually get any hooks.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350691/why-are-stealth-killers-so-loud
to make them fair? Or you want to always have guaranteed hit or even grab all the time? Sneaking on survivor is not that hard especially if you go for a generator that is in some loop and does not allow survivor to see beyond 4m distance. That would not be fun to play. That would be free hit/grab.
Also especially meyers would become way too OP with certain iri addons
What's even the point of having stealth if you can't get the drop on survivors?
@fake said:
Isn't it because of the frustration of being stealth?
If you get a free first hit without chasing, a large segment of survivors will say, "That's not fair!"
Considering that most of the mentioned killers are exceptionally weak outside of very specific perk and addon combination, I think it's fair. An aware survivor won't get surprised even without sound cues, and an unaware survivor likely will be able to avoid being grabbed due to how lag compensation works with the grabs.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3216106#Comment_3216106
Boons help camping and tunneling because with 1 less survivors they can't get enough benefit from it though.
That's a problem that can't be fixed without radically changing how the game works.
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Problem is that part of that statistic is from survivors killing themselves on hook because they don't like going up against the current killer or just don't want to be in the game for whatever reason. Unless the kill count also accounts for all of the survivors escaping on a killer DC I don't think it's a good measurement.
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Basekit Unbreakable will basically decimate the lower tier killer population, the ones that lack strong snowball potential like Wraith, Trapper, Legion, Deathslinger, etc. While not really affecting killers that snowball really hard.
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Considering 1 kill is basically baseline and still a loss for the killer (Killers can almost always get at least one kill no matter what), you have to adjust it for the 2-4 number where things matter. Which is much closer to a 50/50 where the killer either loses or draws.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203127#Comment_3203127
Make it perk and I am OK with it. Same way as survivors get anti-camp and anti-tunel perk instead of deleting these unfair tactics
No more bandaid perks.
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Even with the 45 second timer, that can still happen if there's a really good survivor around trying to flashlight save. It'd also definitely happen if you're playing Oni and need to get multiple slugs to make his power worth while.
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@DBDVulture said:
Don't forget Breakdown when 2-3 people have it.
This change would only make sense if all killers got a "cage of atonement" teleport to hook.
I could see that happening, they might also do something like making picking yourself up cost a hook state.
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Maybe they will include a buff to killer which involves teleporting the survivor to the nearest hook once the pick up animation finishes similar to the Cage of Torment. That'd be the best way to counterbalance basekit unbreakable.
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The whole unbreakable change is like using a rocket launcher to get rid of an annoying bird. Not only are you likely to miss, but there's going to be a lot of collateral damage.
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@Nos37 said:
I think these changes would help:
- Hooks are no longer destroyed from sacrificing survivors, to reduce dead zones with no hooks.
- It takes longer to fully recover after each time a survivor fully recovers. This could have a cooldown too, letting it return back to normal after some time. (Think of how the DC penalty stacks)
- Downing a survivor with Victor should attach Victor to them, stopping or drastically slowing their recovery speed. This both helps with the necessary slugging to hook them and helps keep Victor from snowballing many injured survivors back-to-back.
Could make it so that survivors sacrifice a hook stage to pick themselves up.
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@ACleverName4Me said:
The whole idea is a load of BS, the moris as bp?! You can do better especially when you get more when you use a survivor pudding which is a YELLOW offering and gives mori than an iri mori!
Base kit unbreakable is the most rash move I have seen them make in a hot minute! 45 seconds? I'm surprised it isnt 20! 10! How about 5?!
This should have never even left the idea room.
To balance out survivors being able to pick themselves up within 5 seconds we have made it so killers instantly sacrifice a survivor to the entity when picked up. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
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Yeah, the cheating problem is getting out of hand. They really need to find out a way to prevent people from resetting their hook and health states as well as have a basic detection for if there's more than one killer in a match, and check which one was a survivor and ban them.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
While I did like Pop because it encouraged killers to get away from hooks and actively go for more chases to get continued use of it, it still deserved a nerf with the base kicking buffs.
Even now I think it's still an okay perk, unlike Ruin which got completely destroyed.
It was far too nerfed. It should've been a flat 20-22.5% reduction, rather than the pathetic 20% of current progress which is basically nothing unless the gen's almost always done. Alternatively, make it remove 40% of the current generator's progress. It's more than the 25% of old pop, but only when above 75% on a generator.
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@ByeByeQ said:
A flat 15% for just hooking someone on a scourge hook is already the best regression perk in the game that doesn't require kicking. Getting a scream as well that sets off both Dead Man's Switch and Merciless Storm is just a ghastly garnish making already strong perks into an overpowered combo.
Here's how I'd love to see Pain Resonance:
- Lose the scream altogether.
- Make it 10% regression.
- Bring back the notification from before 6.1.0.
This would make Pain Resonance only a decent regression perk but a better information perk.
Also it would give killers a target so they leave the hook. It would be better for the game.
Nah, I don't think it's healthy to nerf one of the few good perks that rewards hooking survivors over camping.
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@Coder said:
Disclaimer: I'm not a survivor main, it feels like you have to clarify this these days when you make observations about the game. So, about Wesker:
-He's got too dashes, in case he misses one like demo, he's got a second chance.
-If you're about to vault, even if you "win the vault" as survivor, he'll be right up behind you, unlike Demo, who would go on cooldown if he misses.
-He's got zoning capabilities, even if he misses the first dash, he's got a chance that the survivor is outpositioned behind any object trying to avoid the second dash so he just goes on cooldown and M1 the survivor, I've done this several times and it happened to me as survivor. It's easy sometimes to outposition a survivor or zone them by faking the dash or going into cooldown.
-He's got a built in slow down, like Nemesis, or Pig, where survivors need to do a secondary objective.
-He's got a passive tracking ability (when survivors use the sprays he can see killer instinct) and the difference with Nemesis is that if he wants you, he can cover a lot of distance to get to you, making it easy to tunnel someone that just got unhooked and is clearing their infection.
-Map mobility, can hook and be on a distant gen almost immediately.
-Larger Terror Radius, so he benefits from perks like Starstruck, Coulrophobia, Unnerving Presence...
-He's got an "insta down" and hindered effect if you don't use the spray. Unlike Nemesis, he forces survivors to remove the virus/infection, making it stronger than Nemesis' passive ability since 99% of the time you won't have much choice but to remove the infection. With Nemesis, you don't need to remove it and he'll still need to hit you twice to down you and you won't be slowed down.
-Animations and audio queues are confusing, all you can hear is that squishy tentacle sound, it's hard to tell if he's going for a second dash, going on cooldown, faking the charge... I can hear him laughing while charging the first dash, but other than that, the animation is the same. Comparing it to nurse, she's got a clear cooldown/fatigue animation and audio cue.
-He came out on a patch where gen times are increased and the killer meta is to stack as many regression perks as possible, even more than when gens were 80 seconds. So basically, stack like 2 or 3 regression perks (eruption, pain resonance, overcharge+call of brine, etc...) and even if you're half decent you'll destroy almost any team.
-He can hit two survivors at once, which is mostly going to happen when camping and hit+apply infection the survivor unhooking and apply endurance on the unhooked. Not very important, but you can say he's stronger at camping than any average M1 killer.
-He's also one of the killers like Deathslinger and Twins that can stop you last second when you're about to leave.
-You can't flashlight save if he grabs the survivor using his dash (I've already tried it a few times, he's got iframes for flashlights even during his animation)
-Standard 115% speed, so for all I named before there is no trade off, like Death Slinger, or Hag, or Trickster, who are sort of forced to rely on their power and loop at 110%. Wesker can use his power or play like any 115% killer.
-Indirect: He added a new perk to make Starstruck Nurse even stronger (awakened awareness).
I think that's about it, I'm probably missing something, like an addon, or a strong perk combination, but let's compare him with Wraith for instance, who has no slowdown, no automatic vault, no secondary objective, nothing. Or clown, who only has bottles, not even map mobility like wraith (unless you count the antidote as map mobility).
So... what do you guys think?
If anything, he should get a small 3rd dash so he can properly play around rounder tiles.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
Before (PTB to Live)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KEVLAKD44SFI/image.png
(Note: I cannot verify the accuracy of the numbers presented above or below, someone did manage to find the hitboxes and thus showcase how small they actually are.)
After (Live to Better Version)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3GIBGEUY38H7/image.png
(Note: Intangibility was meant to be "invulnerability"; he should be sliding off of smaller objects that aren't around waist height just to make him play better. Just so this hitbox doesn't get too out of hand, this hitbox does not apply when The Mastermind grabs a Survivor, and the environment collision takes precedent over the invulnerability.)
(Additional Note: If the size of the hitboxes still happen to be too small, they should be increased until they feel right for both sides to play.)
Additional Problems that Should be Addressed
(Bold are bugs, italics are gameplay issues.)
- The Mastermind currently has an issue going up or down slopes, primarily stairs. This does not happen with any other mobility Killer.
- The Mastermind currently has an issue where he cannot activate his power within a meter of an object or ledge. This causes him to feel very clunky, especially in very tight loops.
- The Mastermind's Virulent Bound chain bound duration is too short, leading to it not being used when the player wants to use it.
- The Mastermind currently has an issue where grabbing a Survivor at a specific range to an object will cause that Survivor to bounce off and not be injured, despite becoming infected.
- The Mastermind currently has an issue where he will sometimes go through Survivors while using the Virulent Bound.
- The Mastermind currently has an issue where he can get stuck after grabbing a Survivor with Virulent Bound, especially when the Survivor throws a pallet down and that Survivor is on the same side as him.
How the Gameplay Issues Can be Addressed
- Quality of Life: The Mastermind no longer has a range restriction when attempting to activate Virulent Bound near objects, walls or ledges.
- Buff: The Mastermind can now leap off of ledges similarly to every other mobility-based attack (Demogorgon's Shred, Victor's Pounce, Hillbilly's Chainsaw).
- Buff: The window which the Mastermind can perform the additional bound is increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds.
- Change: Egg (Gold) now increases the charge speed of Virulent Bound by 20%.
- Since the original version of Egg (Gold) becomes base kit, it needs a new effect. A great effect to give it is to have it address the part of The Mastermind's kit that isn't affected currently in a small way.
If you want to address Wesker fast so more people can have fun playing as or against him, then this should help you figure out his key issues and change them so that he can be so much better.
This is something I think should be done with the chainsaw killers as well, as sometimes you bump on tiny objects (and bushes).
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Yeah... ths new RPD needs work.
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Honestly, an ability like this I feel should be part of non-mobility/ranged characters base kit.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3126369#Comment_3126369
I don't think so. Despite both being based on totem there are noticeable differences between the two that makes them not comparable.
In fact I would argue most hexes are more stronger then most of the boons outside circle of healing
These days, Hexes are weaker than boons.
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@NerfedFreddy said:
Basement is outdated design, doesn't belong to modern dbd and i have no idea why they insist to have this ultra campy place with no chance to escape (unless killer is nice) especially against certain killers
Because it's a horror game, and therefore there should be situations where the survivors are in fact scared.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106439#Comment_3106439
- Survivor needs to dedicate a perk slot.
- That perk wasn't used earlier in the match.
- The killer needs to not go after the person they hit/failed to grab attempting the rescue.
- The killer needs to instead risk BT, for the hard tunnel potentially giving the survivor a speed boost instead.
- The hook needs to be close enough to the exit gates, relative to the killer's lethality.
So yes it very much wasn't free, it often could be planned and earned more so than many concepts such as 3 gens with solo queue existing and survivors being unable to prevent other survivors from 3 genning the team. It also required multiple mistakes on the killer's part in order to happen. Very rarely could I, as a killer, claim it was the survivor's fault I got DS-ed.
Funny, it happened to me quite a lot.
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Feels like a knee jerk reaction to me to people bitching and moaning about thana.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105426#Comment_3105426
4 man escapes are never free, never have been. Especially against killers that are good at camping.
But now survivors have even less chance of getting a 4 man escape.
Old Decisive Strike when the gates were open wasn't free?
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101214#Comment_3101214
Kind of like how survivors need endgame perks to have at least a bit more of a chance to get all 4 out the exit gates. And even with perks that is a very unrealistic scenario seeing as how DS and Off the Record actually deactivate during end game.
I think you confuse "having a chance" and "it's free".
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101252#Comment_3101252
Thats not gonna happen because you cant make chases as easy as camping/tunneling and if you did it would just mean people who didnt camp or tunnel will win 1000% of their matches.
You could make devour base kit and not have a totem that can be cleansed and not only would people still camp and tunnel because its easier than getting 5 seperate downs on 5 uninjured people who are far away, it would make winning games against people that didnt camp or tunnel beforehand basically impossible.
You cannot incentivize not camping or tunneling because its the easy turn your brain off mode. You gotta make it so its not easy to actually get people to stop doing it. Also without making it impossible to do because sometimes you have to camp and tunnel, for example during EGC, which is also why ds and otr stops working when gates are powered.
Well no matter what you do you can't completely stop it, you just gotta make it a less good strat than actively chasing. Problem is that currently, aside from high mobility killers, there's not much reason to leave the hook especially on larger maps.
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@DarkSkysz said:
Not sure if it was already suggested, but we kinda have a good mechanic ingame already. When pyramid head camps his cages, they are teleported to another place. What is hooks also had that same effect? Killer is face camping the hook, the survivors is teleported to another hook, without alerting the killer which hook (or it can just run there and face camp again...).
The problem is that for highly mobile killers is they'll just move quickly next to the hook to relocate it, making survivors waste their time trying to get them and the person possibly going to second stage instead of a trade. It'd only be a nerf for immobile non-ranged killers whom are already the weakest archetype.
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@Sludge said:
You were always screwed if a Nurse decided to tunnel what difference did the patch really make?
I think if they wanna make Nurse a bit less oppressive to make the first blink a teleport, and the second one a super fast lunge sort of attack, very fast like the teleport but still respecting the collision.
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What Killers need is incentives to not camp, you can't disincentivize the killer from camping since it just encourages survivors to be greedy/brain dead and go for unsafe unhooks or farm teammates.
Perks already exist that help incentivize the killer to not camp, the problem is that most of them are merely decent perks that get overshadowed by the ones that more directly aid the killer's game state. But something like when you hook someone the killer gets a 20% movement speed increase till they enter chase (or 30 seconds pass) would make them more mobile, and then make the Killer get a Loud Noise Notification from the generator with the most progress. That'd encourage the killer to leave. They still could possibly camp, but they have more reasons to leave as the opportunity cost is not nearly as high.
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I think one buff to Freddy should be to let him teleport to already completed generators, and reduce his teleportation cooldown somewhat to like 30-35-40 seconds or so rather than 45 base which is way longer than the Dredge's 12 or so seconds. I'd also just make the Dream Pallets and Dream Snares both work at the same time, rather than needing both. Maybe also add Dream Window Blockers so Freddy can close off some window vaults if they're asleep (probably would need to be limited to like 1 window at a time or something).
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Should just make it that successfully healing a health state recovers it completely if it's not already.
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@Leatherbilly said:
Pretty much what it says on the title. Remember Me: Exit doors now rapidly regress in progress when not actively being used by a survivor.
Pretty easy to justify, as right now the perk is utterly useless and outclassed in every conceivable way by No Way Out, which gives:
- Prevents the doors from being powered instead of extending it (takes 60 seconds of waiting then 15 seconds to open, giving you 75 extra seconds instead of 16)
- The Obsession is not immune to the penalty
- Gives tracking (noise notification) when the exit doors are touched for free
I'd rather this be base kit tbh. I don't like how end game you need perks to even justify doing anything but standing still and waiting for the match to end.
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@prettypinkpansy said:
I love the new patch and I just wanted to say I think all of the changes are great on both survivor and killer side (I play both, about 60% survivor 40% killer, with about 1000 hours total). I really don't want to see it nerfed so I wanted to come in and voice my support.
What I like
I love the perk changes. I love the killer changes. I love that the meta has been shaken up so drastically and I love how much it's changing on both sides. I love that a lot of perks I liked but weren't very good have gotten buffed, and that a lot of perks I hadn't ever thought about using (like Dark Sense) are actually interesting now! I love the IDEA of adding anti camping/tunneling measures (if not the execution). I love the way this game is going if these changes are any indication.
The things I DON'T like are the NOED change and the unhook changes (the basekit haste+Borrowed Time). Not because it was bad to change either of these things, but because they're treating a symptom, not the cause.
NOED
How does the patch address NOED? It makes the hex totem easier to find. The problem is that I don't feel that NOED's problems are anything to do with that.
First, let me start by quoting the patch notes: "We like the way NOED encourages survivors to pre-emptively cleanse Totems". So having survivors eat dulls is the stated goal of NOED. Not necessarily a bad idea. A good way to buy more time for the killer and add variety to gameplay.
The problem is that there are no other perks in the game, except ARGUABLY Plaything, that work this way. NOTHING else interacts with dulls and lights them up mid-game. Meanwhile, there's four boon perks, sure to be more, that rely on you leaving dull totems intact. As well as Clairvoyance, Inner Strength and Overzealous.
That's one perk rewarding you for cleansing dulls, and seven perks that incentivize you to NOT break dulls. Even if you don't have them, maybe one of your three teammates does - and with several, you have no way to know for sure, so you may as well leave the totems alone. Is Nancy cleansing totems because she likes to cleanse totems or she has Inner Healing? You can't know! Then there's perks that punish you for cleansing dulls, like Undying, Thrill of the Hunt, Pentimento, or Retribution.
This is conflicting game design that can cause friction with your teammates. This thing is completely pointless 99% of the time, but in this one instance it's really bad and if you didn't break it that's your own fault, but also... the thing can be good so better leave a few for your teammates??? What kind of message is that, especially to new players? There have also been plenty of screenshots since 5.3.0 of people getting mad at their teammates for breaking totems because they brought a boon.
I know in high level play everyone breaks a totem or two and it's no problem, but in low to mid-level play if your teammates aren't touching generators OR cleansing dulls, it can feel like throwing the game to go break them all. I try to do my part and break one or two as I see them. I have 1000 hours in this game. But I feel like I've never, EVER in my memory seen NOED in a results screen and went "weird, never went off, I guess everyone did bones" in my matches, which must number well over a thousand at this point. The only time I remember seeing NOED on the results screen but not in the game was because I took a build entirely devoted to totems and broke 4 or 5 myself. I'm sure you can guess how often I've gone down to NOED, though.
(The answer is a lot.)
My teammates rarely do totems. I take Small Game often enough to know. There simply isn't enough incentive to do dulls for the average player - there's arguably negative incentive - and it's often unrealistic to do all of them yourself, especially without a perk for that purpose (try finding all 5 on Raccoon City, even with Small Game).
People argue that it is a "second chance" perk. I have no issue with second chances! I love perks like Deadlock or Grim Embrace or No Way Out! I'd even be fine with NOED with changes.
But NOED, in its current state, is not a "second chance" perk. It's a "you didn't get all 5 of the collectibles, so now the killer gets a free kill, surprise" perk. It feels very bad to struggle through a difficult game and get hit by NOED as you're about to cross the finishing line. But if you complain, people say "should've done bones" as if that's any comfort, or remotely realistic in the game you just played. And that is the only counterargument ever given for not doing the thing for a 1 in 100 chance the killer has a perk.
I'm sure someone will say "it's not really a 1 in 100 chance!", and they'd be right. So here's actual stats: out of 122 games I recorded over the course of two months, at varying times of day, killers and killer skill levels, there were 15 occasions of NOED. Roughly 12%. 107 games where it was never a factor. A lot of them I would not have survived had I stopped to try and break all the dulls.
So how do I think you should fix NOED?
Bring its mechanics more in line with other perks, or make more perks act like it. I'm not a game designer so these aren't perfect solutions, just examples, but either some kind of way to know NOED is a thing (like dull totems subtly lighting up before the last generator is done, so survivors have to check a totem before the final generator gets done and if NOED exists they either need to stop and break them all or gamble with their lives) or add more perks that require you to cleanse dulls. It makes it feel less like a waste of time, and it also incentivizes your teammates to break them as well.
Any change that contributes towards either of these factors would make NOED less of a pain for me. As it is now, I cannot stand it. I would take ten games where I get camped by a Basement Bubba over a single NOED game. At least Bubba is quick and you know what's going to happen.
The patch makes NOED easier to find when active, but that doesn't stop you the player going from full health to no health right in front of the exit gate with zero warning given. Yes, your teammates can find and break the totem, but they just as easily will leave you on hook. And what if you're on death hook? What if you down right next to where the totem spawned? Guess you're just out of luck. So the patch doesn't address any of the problems I've listed, and there are still scenarios where it feels "cheap" that the patch has done nothing to solve.
Camping/tunneling
Unfortunately, the changes do very little to discourage camping/tunneling. If anything, it feels like it makes them worse - teammates are more eager to unhook in front of the killer thinking it'll be "safe", and with Barbecue stacks no longer being a thing, killers don't have as many incentives to care about hooking equally. The fact is, any change will inevitably fail as long as killers can stay near a hook. 20 seconds basekit BT just means a killer with a 20 second stopwatch. It's just not going to work unless you fundamentally rework it.
So, why not use the system you already made? And by that I mean Pyramid Head's Cages of Torment. I don't mean copy it exactly - a killer still has to pick a survivor up and carry them to a hook, exposing them to Decisive Strike, blinds, stuns, et cetera, and keeping the Scourge Hook mechanic intact. But when they're on the hook, teleport them to a random hook on the map. Make it so the killer does not know where that hook is. Make it so that if the killer finds that hook and gets too close for too long, the survivor teleports to a hook further away from the killer (and pause the timer for a few seconds).
That's it. Now the killer can't camp, and tunneling would be a lot harder to do. The most egregious examples would be gone, for certain. What happens to the basement? I have no idea. Maybe it's the one place you CAN camp. Maybe teleport the killer out if he spends too much time in there, or give survivors free Kindred inside the basement. I don't know. Again, I'm not a game designer. But it's a simple rework based on existing gameplay systems.
Sorry for the long post, thanks if you read it!
It'd probably be more of a problem with camping, because then a killer can bait survivors into one corner of the map for the unhook, and then stand in range of it for just long enough to force it to move possibly causing the survivors to have to go to the opposite end of the map. Proxy camping will still happen, it just gives killers another tool (relocating survivor last second). Plus, this will only favor high mobility killers who can very quickly go to the hook's new position and camp again.
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What Myers needs is a travel system similar to how he works in the movies, where once you take your eyes off of him he suddenly becomes much faster. Ditto with Ghostface. Maybe make it so that Myers gets faster when stalking rather than slower, but only when survivors aren't looking at him? Either that, or a weaker version of Dredge's locker teleport (IE has to enter the locker to teleport versus doing it whenever).
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@Dsnooz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/kb/articles/342-6-1-0-mid-chapter
(Linking the patch notes for ease of reading). I'll address items in the order that they appear in the patch notes.
Content:
New Tome, new maze tiles: these are interesting and I'm overall content with the new tiles.
Gameplay:
Generators now take 90 seconds. As a baseline duration, I definitely feel this is good for the game overall.
However, gen slowdown perks like Dying Light, Thanatophobia, etc. can be truly oppressive. In a way that is not healthy for the game. I believe something should be done to have the effects of stacked gen slowdown be homogenized or reduced at max effect.
Kicking a generator for a mini-pop is great, this removes some uninteresting gameplay. Before if survivors knew they were ahead they could rotate on the last gen in your face, now survivors actually have meaningful decisions to make. It went from being a low-risk choice for survivors to having risk. Overall, the best singular change in the patch.
Bloodlust trigger changes. Bloodlust is still useless. Chases are so short now from other gameplay changes tier 1 is super rare. I still think it should be removed from "all killers" and possibly be unique to a small group of killers.
Sped up killer actions / Duration of Survivor Speed Boost: The changes to palette breaking are small and fantastic. The reduced hit cooldown is nice but feels over-done with the reduction in survivor speed boost post-hit.
Base-kit Borrowed Time: it's good for the game, not really changing the meta since BT was so common. But overall good.
Endurance is now cancelled by Conspicuous Actions. Conspicuous Actions are the band-aid fix, to the band-aid fix. Good for now but I'd prefer to see something down the road that is more intuitive.
Endurance doesn't protect a survivor in deep wound. This is an intuitive solution, long term it'll be good.
Killer Perks:
I think some of the gen slowdown buffs need to be reeled in. Scourge: Gift of Pain should be 8/10/12% for example, Thanatophobia should have stayed 4/4.5/5%. Most of the changes have been healthy for the meta though.
Survivor Perks:
We're really seeing how impactful Dead Hard was on the game-equilibrium. Chases feel on average are 20 seconds shorter. From having to wait Dead Hard out for 4-10 seconds and the additional 30 seconds that could be gained from a well-used Dead Hard.
Decisive Strike takes another hit and is just seen even less now.
Other Changes:
Relatively good, not much to write about.
Conclusions:
The buffs to killers are nice, but survivors need some modest buffs.
Some considerations are:
0) Add in mini-obsession tentacles for non-obsession survivors bridging the gap between solo-play and SWF. How impactful is it if all survivors can always see who is in chase from the HUD?
I personally believe this would be a great improvement to the game to supplement all the changes in 6.1.0.
1) Remove breakable walls from certain maps & Tiles. They're usually a waste of time or gutting a loop for survivors. "Oh, I'm near the wall I always have to break" or "Oh, there's that wall I'd have to be a fool to break."
2) Rethink where breakable walls are placed on buildings and maze tiles. Too often it's not a meaningful choice to make, as described above.
3) Remove bloodlust.
4) Give survivors back a 2 second speed boost after being hit.
For survivors I think the two pieces of into that you need in SoloQ are: First is a soft Kindred effect that shows the aura of the killer if they're within a short distance of the hook, within direct LOS, and aren't Undetectable. Second is an indicator for what the survivors are doing, a little status indicator by their portrait showing if they're in chase, on a generator, crouching, healing, or cleansing as well as an icon for which item they're carrying.
Removing bloodlust would be bad as it's only something weaker killers ever benefit from, and to remove bloodlust would require them to retool every loop in the game and every future loop they ever make would need to be that much more playtested. Currently there's infinites or near infinites still in the game based off random generation or even some fixed structures.
I will say I think the "mini-pop" effect on generators should be a 5%, so it takes a survivor more time to repair it than it takes for the killer to kick it. Currently it's about even, which doesn't help that much.
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@MrCalac123 said:
The new base BT should be 7.5 seconds, with BT doubling it
The longer you wiggle, the more the Killer should be swayed around (does not stack with Boil Over)
Half of Kindred should be base kit, Survivors should all see each other when a teammate is hooked
Survivors should last 5 to 10 seconds longer on hook per stage, so 10-20 seconds in total
Survivors should have a button that doubles/triples the speed of bleeding out, to counter Killers who slug them for 4 minutes
A Survivor who has been hooked twice within 2 minutes should have their hook timer doubled
These are the changes I would add to help cope with the strength Killers have gained, without making things like SWF even more broken
Nah, I don't think the basekit BT needs any buffs, just don't make such risky unhooks.
No to buffing wiggles, if you want a strong wiggle equip the perks for it.
I'd agree to that, so long as it doesn't work against Undetectable killers or killers who are behind a wall (aka out of sight, so no more information than what youd' get from a SWF). If you want the full benefit that penetrates undetectable you need the perk though.
Let's make it so survivors just stay on hooks for 5 minutes, and aren't automatically sacrificed once everyone's hooked so everyone can enjoy the killer face camping experience together. Pass.
Just make the "quit match" button for survivors be a "Sacrifice self to entity" button so you can quit out as survivor with some dignity (using the EGC animation) rather than peacing out of existence abruptly.
And again, because everyone wants to sit there held hostage by the killer for an additional two minutes by Bubba. Pass.
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@Oscarnator said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080676#Comment_3080676
Beacuse every “second chance” is to stop killer tunneling/and or face camping. 0 excuses lmaoo. Not to mention they are all dead.
@BubbleBuster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083963#Comment_3083963
yea good argument. really good argument.
because in my post i said "off the record is not annoying so it can stay" i also said "all survivor perks are fun to play against", thank you for reading :)
in a post about NOED i obviously talk about NOED and not every survivor perk that is unfun to play against.
i can state a point without mentioning every single thing my point applies to. Ofc i think some perks are inherently unfun to go against like old DH. I thought old DH should ve never existed in the first place ever since huntress got released...
please stop putting words in peoples' mouthes, it is annoying
How is Off the Record fun to play against as killer?
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Honestly, I think that skill checks should transition to a more mini-game sort of format, not dissimilar to stuff like what you get with Among Us. That way generators isn't hold a single button for an hour and occasionally press space but something more involved.
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@Ivory_Partnaite said:
Don't you hate it when you're on Stage II on hook and everyone is doing a generator?
- Decrease Max Bloodpoint amount for doing generators.
- Increase Max Bloodpoint amount for unhooking survivors.
I bet people love getting farmed by the killer.
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@Gladonos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080676#Comment_3080676
........................................Are you really saying this...? No way... Lololololololol..... You are trolling. You have got to be. We just lost EVERY SINGLE SECOND CHANCE PERK.
You just gained off the record.
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@BubbleBuster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080676#Comment_3080676
what about - arguments do not defend any point. logical fallacy and such
If a perk is frustrating to play against it is frustrating to play against.
If a survivor perk is really frustrating to play against it should be addressed (Dead Hard)
same with a killer perk
And Off the Record, Dead Hard, Unbreakable, Decisive Strike, etc. aren't horribly annoying?
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@CodeDB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080715#Comment_3080715
All good points, but lets say you give a bigger regression bonus when kicking gens (5% base) and survivors now need to work on the generator for 3 seconds to stop regression. Killers also automatically get a 10% speed boost while leaving the hook before they get in their next chase. Heck, throw in that killers will see all gens current progress for 5 seconds after hooking as well. All cool things that should encourage the killer to leave.
Even with all this information, the easiest route to a win is still a 3v1 as early as possible.
But these benefits only matter if the killer's proactive and not camping. It won't eliminate it, but again *nothing will* eliminate camping, no matter how hard you try sans making survivors just die on first hook so camping's impossible from the get-go.
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080679#Comment_3080679
Why shouldn't Killers have adapted to Dead Hard...
Um, they did? Didn't you hear about "waiting it out"? It's just that even with adapting for it, it was still too powerful because you had to assume every survivor was running it.
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@CodeDB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080674#Comment_3080674
In a game people play to "win", what better incentive can you give than tunneling someone out?
@WeaverReaver42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080674#Comment_3080674
They do have incentives (not good ones but they are there) They are stuck behind perks. Getting a speed boost when leaving hook and an insta kill after 5 hooks and leaving are better than nothing, but they aren't much. Thoug overall I do agree that bloodlust might not be that important, but it's better than nothing that we have so far.
Most killers lack good map pressure either due to lacking the mobility to get around, lack of information to on where to go if their mobility is feasible, or lack of pressure from pushing off of gens (like the 2.5% is nice, but it really should be like 5% from kicking; and realistically there should be an animation window for survivors like these is on killers). In order to get these things you need to spend perks, which means you're not using perks for other things like Chase, End Game, Gen Slowdown, or just perks that are more for fun.
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This is likely due to survivors not knowing how to loop without dead hard. Give it a few weeks.