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op got beasted on
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at the end of the day vigil is two different perks in one slot, that should change
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@BloodBehemoth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098450#Comment_4098450
According to the number of downvotes you got, the majority clearly expect you to do that.
fortunately the buttons i press on my keyboard are not a democracy
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would be interesting to have this perk or another token based perk scale off pallet drops/breaks, makes it a counter to people who just w key to the yelllw and responds to density
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lmfao i stand corrected, my bad for giving bhvr the benefit of the doubt
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this is obviously a bug imo, turn back the clock doesnt interact with other standard gen sabotage actions
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098450#Comment_4098450
That's why the devs are obligated to implement systems that make tunneling less effective. It's also why no one believes killer mains coming here every patch to say "if you dare nerf ________ i'll have to tunnel" when everyone knows they already just do it because its easy.
why are you making this thread telling killer players what to do then, if the onus is on the devs to change it?
@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098454#Comment_4098454
And now the skill issue argument? Classic.
Are you deliberately trolling by coming out with the standard entitled killer main phrases? Or do you actually believe that? Because if you do it rather gives me the impression that you only play killer and don't really know what thevgame is like from the survivor pov
i'm not sure what's 'skill issue' about it, tbh? i play 60/40 killer, i know what it is like to be on the delivering and recieving end of tunneling, and very often i will win games because a killer tries to hard tunnel me and i juice them long enough for my teammates to do gens.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098454#Comment_4098454
So then change the game around it so that trying to capitalise on that becomes the throwing part.
if you think the game should be changed then advocate for that, telling people to play the game as it exists badly on purpose to coddle your ego is embarassing
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098450#Comment_4098450
Wondered how long before THAT particular response got copy pasted on this thread. 7 replies apparently.
Like I said I'm not totally opposed to all forms of tunneling. I'm not saying you have to throw the game. But there is a difference between tactical tunneling mid game and singling out one player and hard tunneling them out of the game to the exclusion of all else. There should be a basekit mechanic to prevent or punish that type of play. It's a cheap strategy with little to no counterplay.
And at the end of the day, the killers who indulge in easy wins that way make a rod for their own back. They don't improve their skills very well and end up with no idea how to take control of a match without simply removing one player from the equasion. They skyrocket their mmr super high by getting constant 3-4ks until they end up in super high mmr brackets with skilled surv teams who have thousands of hours and can outskill them at every turn. Then the game becomes immensely unfun for them.
if a survivor makes themselves available as a target for 'hard tunnelling out of the game to the exclusion of all else', then failing to capitalise on that is throwing.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098434#Comment_4098434
I'm sure that gen really feels bad about that. When that gen queued up I imagine it was looking forward to engaging in some gameplay in a full match instead of being focused out as quickly as possible. Won't somebody think of the gens' gameplay experience?
i am not obligated to intentionally throw the game in the hope it makes my opponent potentially enjoy it more
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a survivor dies after taking damage 6 times. any perk that increases that number without an associated resource/time cost is a second chance perk
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i keep getting games where survivors hard tunnel by staying on the same gen until it's finished instead of doing a third of the gen and then moving to a different gen
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monstrous shrine needs a nerf
you legit cannot make survivor players up lol
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why should people read your post if you are too lazy to actually write it
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The game is getting a major technical overhaul later next year, i wouldn't expect anything before then
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the perk is just silly, the effect is too powerful to fit in a perk's power budget so it has to be ridiculously conditional and still only be once a trial
i don't think there's much point in bhvr touching it, it'll either be useless or broken OP and i'd rather it be useless
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@Wyndsor said:
Your first mistake was assuming a new survivor perk is supposed to be anything but useless or incredibly niche.
https://deadbydaylight.wiki.gg/wiki/Five_Moves_Ahead
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097416#Comment_4097416
And what would that prove? 🤣 that 3 players running builds for endurance etc could manage an unhook? Or that I could counter it by spamming traps around the hook or running my own perk build tailor made to counter the situation? I don't need to prove my point because everyone who's reading this post will know that endgame unhooks are risky and not the 100% gimme that you're making it out to be.
who said anything about perks?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097372#Comment_4097372
Pretty positive they weren't soloq but that's quite a change from "100% consistent" to "except against the majority of players". There are also hooks that are positioned in a way that if you facecamp it's actually impossible to unhook. There's no prompt. There are also instadown and ranged killers. There's also the basement.
But "100 consistent".
jumping over a pit in mario is 100% consistent if you press the right buttons, the player being bad doesn't mean that mario needs his jump height increased
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097372#Comment_4097372
Your argument is getting pretty weak if you've got to just assume that anyone who can't pull a safe unhook under the killers nose is automatically bad at the game.
Have you ever considered that killers who can't counterplay this situation might have a skill issue? Like i said before. I very rarely lose an endgame hook without securing another down. And my mmr throws some pretty solid teams at me, I regularly get ttv squads, 4 man stacks, and teams of high skill survivors. I'm not just bullying soloq wet blankets. I get co-ordinated teams who are damn good at the game, they have to be good to get me to 5 gens when I'm running a solid build and not just messing around with sub par killers and meme builds. And i still regularly punish them in endgame situations.
It will happen, I've pulled it off before as surv and had it pulled against me too. But it isn't a forgone conclusion in the way you're making out, you have to manage a perfect sequence of actions and have the killer not counterplsy properly for it to work. And if you lose a lot of survivors like this then you need to look at how you counterplay these situations.
we can 3v1 if you want, play 100 rounds
you as trapper and me and my friends as survs trying to unhook, i guarantee we will get 3out 100 times out of that 100
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097347#Comment_4097347
I just finished up a match that should have been a 0k after how bad I played and how well they played and I flipped it into a 3k by slugging three and chasing the last one (the one they saved) out after a botched bit of altrusim. It is not 100% consistent.
soloq shitters being impossibly bad at the game does not factor into game balance, nobody who isn't inting ever 'botches' a safe 4out
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097355#Comment_4097355
It isn't that cut and dried, there are an awful lot more variables. Human error and skill expression for a start, even a slight mistime in the unhook, like taking the hit a second or so early means a hook trade. Tunneling isn't generally the best move, usually you want to go for the person getting the save, if you hit a third party and someone else goes fpr the unhook then commit to the one you hit originally. It all depends on how you play it. Face camping is pretty easy, and occasionally you will lose a kill and get a 0k but it's hardly consistent. The easy to play it is to get a hit pre unhook. Then that player is at risk of a down. The planning ahead is also important. If you are on 1 or 2 gens left or endgame then when you do secure a hook run for a hook that is further from exit gates, or is tactically dangerous for a save i.e. basement, on top of a mound etc.
Even if you have a healthy surv bodyblocking, keeping up a consistent bodyblock all the way up to the gate isn't easy, even an m1 killer can cut them off, because they can't afford to take the shortest route a lot of time beacuse open ground is risky. They'll path to pallets/vaults so you can cut the cornera and head straight for gate. Certain (well over half the killer roster) killers can counterplay this with their basekit anyway powers, ranged killers, traversal killers, not to mention perks. You did mention that but also instantly dismiss it because it doesn't prove your point.
Just because you'll occasionally lose a kill in this situation doesn't make it a given conclusion every time you get an endgame hook.
if your group is failing endgame saves at great regularity the issue is between the chair and the keyboard, the timing is beyond generous
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4097347#Comment_4097347
Pulling a clean save against a killer who can freely face camp during endgame can hardly be described as 100% consistent and requiring no mechanical execution. It isn't easy to pull off and can easily result in a hook trade or snowball.
go for unhook>killer is forced to hit you>killer is animation locked>teammate unhooks>unhooked survivor bodyblocks you
it is 100% consistent excepting specific killer powers that counter it, there is nothing the killer can do to avert it, there is no mechanical execution involved
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tbh i think the best feedback i can give is for bhvr to actually playtest this stuff before shipping it, playing even like 10 matches of this internally would have immediately highlighted all the issues
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
You should be able to trade hooks most of the time. If a survivor team can pull off a hook save without giving up a trade, then I just tip my cap to them for a job well done. I don’t think killers should be entitled to free endgame kills.
'pulling off' something that is 100% consistent and requires no mechanical execution of note is not really a good way of putting it
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like with 2v8, the mid chase on demand sprint burst effect is simply not fun to play against and needs to be retired from all future events. it penalises not picking strong killers
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@HexSlugged said:
my issue is that the game isnt over when 5 gens are done. thats still a situation that can be won or at least a hook secured. i would say if a change was to be made its when gens are done and the gat was opened.
survivors are allowed to leave in a lot of scenarios where the game isn't over
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genuinely hilarious how people will, in the same post, brag about aggressively using multiple 'anti tunnel' perks to make the game unplayable for mid/low tiers and then complain that killers only play high tiers and try counter those perks
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it is hard to believe in general that anyone making high-level decisions for this game is regularly playing public matches under normal conditions, based on the changes often made
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this would just be a worse version of WGLF unless it were balanced to be obnoxiously overpowered
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if you don't want to play a full match, no matter what happens, don't queue in
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@MarbleThrone said:
That's how it always goes.
New perk gets announced, has strong effect, people lose their minds, perk actually never gets used, people forget perk exists.
And yes, a nerf for it is already in the works. We know that it will no longer work while being in chase.the part of the perk people were saying was problematic got canned, this is not an example of alarmism and if the original version went live it would have been game breaking
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096267#Comment_4096267
Henry's nerfs were minor. People don't play him because he's not easy, yet he's still strong. That's the problem—more and more, people want everything to be easier. And if the perks have been "insane" for years, before all these overstuffed A tiers starting dropping constantly, what has changed to make killers suddenly unable to deal with them now? Because they've seemed to be able to work around them all this time.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096268#Comment_4096268
Like what changes? Healing builds have been nerfed by diminishing. Everyone seems to have forgotten medkit add-ons were nerfed some months ago. Gens haven't changed. Deja Vu and Resi are still the gen perks I see the most. Nothing has changed with hookstates. And pallet density also came with main building nerfs, plus most of the pallets are tiny, unsafe nothings between a rock and a tree. You can walk around half the pallets in this game. There are almost no killers who don't have some way to work around pallets, like ranged attacks, teleports, or speed.
post your stats page
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096196#Comment_4096196
What fast paced meta though? Did survivor running speed increase? Did gen times go down? Most of the popular perks are still years old. SB is still meta. What's mostly changed is that powerful killers keep coming out and people want every killer to be that way.
a mix of pallet density, gamewide changes to healing/gens/hookstates and general meta evolution have led to gens being done way faster on average, and the afformentioned pallet density means the killers who cant answer pallets eat #########
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the recent unrestricted tournament event highlighted that killers, even with free choice of map selection piloted by top tier killer players can only barely hope to scrape a 50% kr against a swf pulling out all the stops to try and win
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are we really debating if 'permanent elusive in chase' exceeds the power budget of a perk
theres various sources of scratchmark removal/reduction in surv perks and literally all of them are conditional or limited, the idea of a perk that unconditionally just disables your scratchmarks alongside the other benefits of elusive is obviously just insane
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the payoff is relatively small compared to how situational the activation condition is, it's only useful against optimised and coordinated surv play that is very rare to see in random pub games
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@Wezqu said:
The shocking truth they don't demand that. You chose to do it to get it faster.
person tries to win video game more news at 11
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he has no ability to exert pressure in the form so it doesnt really matter how long it lasts
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i have a phobia of being stabbled by glass shards so i should be able to ban ds
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knowledge checks are bad tbh
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@wesker_shades said:
Hand-holding mechanics on each side:
Killer:
- Bloodlust (free haste)
- Instant 5% gen regression
- No anti-camp in end game
- Killer Instinct
- Much worse loops around maps.
- Power Creep, and lots of it
- 90 second generators (up from 80 seconds)
- BNP's and medkits heavily nerfed.
- So much aura read.
- Remote regression (Pain Res, Turn Back the Clock etc.)
- Gen-blockers (Dead Man's Switch etc.)
- Thrill of the Hunt
- Faster animations
Survivor:
- Basekit Borrowed Time (increased to 15 seconds)
- Anti-Camp
- 10% free haste off the hook.
- 70 seconds hook timers.
- More pallets to work with, but most are bad fillers.
- Removal of 1-hook moris
- A lot of aura read (but less than killers).
- Regression limits on gens
- Elusive
- Endurance perks
- Vigil
Least biased dbd forum post
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i refuse to believe anyone who makes decisions at bhvr plays killer at any level of regularity
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@wesker_shades said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088844#Comment_4088844
DS is anti-tunnel, if the survivor using it is trying to get value, just ignore them, and let them waste 60 seconds, that could have otherwise been used on a gen.
Dead Hard is relatively easy to bait out. Props to the survivors who actually manage to pull off a good DH.
Resurgence can also be countered, but it isn't too big of a deal for most of the killer roster, since two-taps are not that hard to pull off.
STB is also anti-tunnel.
Deli is.. well deli. Either a blessing or a curse, that is not always guaranteed to work in the survivors' favor.
So either you complain about these perks, because you love tunneling, or you really don't know how to play around them. I hardly ever have any issues with either of these perks in my killer games, despite how prevalent they are, becuase I don't tunnel, or bleedout-slug for that matter.if you play killer and observe imagined rules about 'tunneling' or whatever instead of playing optimally to try and win then we aren't playing the same game, not much point discussing it
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@wesker_shades said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088782#Comment_4088782
Trapper?
I am fairly sure he could do really well if he uses the right build and setup.
Then again, in defense of @THE_Crazy_Hyena, the last time I touched Trapper, I got a super-fast 4K, because of unconventional trap placements, and good mind-games.
See, one trick to playing killer well is to play survivor, learn the counterplay, and then use a survivor mindset against them.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088821#Comment_4088821
The Sprint Burst + Vigil meta? Last I checked, that was the most common build, alongside Five Moves Ahead, Finesse and Lithe.
Nothing that screams anti-hooking there.decisive strike, dead hard, resurgence, stb, deliverance, all very common perks (especially from stronger teams)
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jason is intangible and cannot freely re-enter play so a terror radius doesn't make sense, he's picking a static spot to teleport to
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bhvr are contractually unable to give out premium currency for free
the battle pass is plenty generous, it has a full refund and can be finished incredibly fast compared to other titles and lasts for a super long time.
Don't write your posts with chatgpt
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@wesker_shades said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088459#Comment_4088459
You sure about that?
Then why are these "strategies" mostly done by killers who has instadown powers?The answer is quite simple, because the "moving parts" are ridiculously easy to pull off.
because the strategy is highly effective and counters the current surv meta?
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controlling slugged survs and denying pickups whilst trying to secure additional downs has infinitely more moving parts and thinking involved than hook>chase>hook, you can complain about it if you want but calling it skillless is simply offmark
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i sometimes have chases with 2 SB uses against weaker killers when i use vigil, it's ridiculous