cogsturning
cogsturning
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@PetTheDoggo said:
They are lucky I didn't get Ghoul as an option…
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053843#Comment_4053843
Same here. Would have written a 10 page essay.
I just went ahead and mentioned him anyway. Hurray for essay boxes.
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Or maybe we can address the issues that make everyone so unhappy? Punishing people doesn't help player retention.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053904#Comment_4053904
I think for balance sake it would actually be better to just not have solos in the ranked mode.
Casual mode is for solo queue, or duo (with only 1 duo max per game).
Ranked mode is 4-man SWF only.
Then it becomes much easier to balance the modes.
I'd be surprised if there were enough 4mans active at all times on all servers to sustain an entire mode. Even with a reasonably large friend pull it's hard to get four people together at the same time.
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I don't see how this could work without somehow locking the sweats out of the casual mode. Most people don't want a challenge, they want an easy win, and casual mode is where they'll go for it. Maybe if the modes were drastically different, like if the anti-cheese for survivors and basekit Pop and BBQ for killers from the ptb were present in the casual mode but not the ranked mode.
I'd rather them just improve how MMR works.
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The whole game has been awful for me lately. I'm losing the majority of my matches regardless of role.
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@Junylar said:
Just as I predicted, they just assigned the more "inclusive" character as the winner. The vote has never been real after all.
The game already has plenty of shallow gooner options. You'll be okay.
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Like others have mentioned, I think you should be able to adjust your build and items based on what you see in the lobby. You can easily stop streamsniping by just hiding player names until scoreboards. I still don't understand why you can just browse people's hours and info in the lobby. As for dodging, they could find all 5 players before placing them in a locked lobby where they can still adjust but not leave.
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@Vtech said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053202#Comment_4053202
You mean like how survivors have multiple second chance perks?
Whats wrong with Killer getting a Second Chance perk?What do you think "second chance" means exactly? If you hooked someone, your first effort was successful. No second chance needed. The only perk that comes close to removing a hook state—which would be equal to getting one for free—is StB, and it doesn't remove it, just shifts its location. It's also super risky. So okay, you can have your free-hook perk, but it's one time use and, after using it, you spend the next two minutes stunned. You'll get to feel like the NPC you want the survivors to be as gens pop around you and they stand in front of you and tbag.
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@Vtech said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052948#Comment_4052948
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052963#Comment_4052963
Not Joking!
It's just the killer Version of DS.
Whats wrong with tha?
Chained Hook:
If Survivors unhook a survivor in your Terror radius trigger a skill check if you succeed the survivor is rehooked instantly and gains another hook state up to sacrificed.You're either trolling or you want a game that gives you every single thing for free. The survivor equivalent of this would be hitting a skill check while in the killer's TR that removes a hook state.
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@Nazzzak said:
Legit though, I'll have a survivor literally right in front of me and I'll still be spamming M2 because I forget that M1 is an option 🤣
I refuse to give up on the M2 efforts even for the free hit lol
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On whom exactly? Cause you're getting steamrolled.
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I've been wondering about this auto go-next detection system and what triggers it. I got tunneled out by a p100 Blight recently like 2 mins into the match and I wasn't penalized. It must have to be cumulative or something, or it pairs with DCs and recognizes the specific players history.
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@Vtech said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052545#Comment_4052545
Killers deserve a Second chance perk like DS.
Something like "Hook Chains" when the first survivor is unhooked they instantly get rehooked if the killer passes a skill check, and gain another hook level.You're joking, right?
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052606#Comment_4052606
Reinterpreting the quote doesn't make the evidence fall.So there is an evidence argument and an argument about quotes.
Let's deal with the evidence argument first.
You say the following:
The devs themselves have said that they aim for a 60/40 for balance on both sides. This is what they said. Theyve aimed for 60/40 for YEARS these are the people who have alllllll the data, and they've been sticking to their guns for YEARS. Im pretty sure theirs a GOOD reason why they are saying 60/40 is balanced after reviewing ALLLLLL their data for YEARS.What in the F*** are survivors doing to pull almost 10% past the intended escape %??? the swfs in high lobbies are popping gens like popcorn. No way in the world should you be able to pop a gen in 24-26 seconds with 2 people AND have coms.In this post you are appealing to knowledge that BHVR has that we don't (allllll the data).
I respond -
This goes both ways.If you're going to believe BHVR must be right on these decisions because they have the data we don't, then their decision not to nerf perks and/or SWF must also be because they have all the data.They also never have said that the 60/40 is a rate that applies to every single scenario, but an overall target, and its not their only game balancing metric.Basically, if you're going to appeal to what BHVR must know, that must remain consistent. Nothing I said above is incorrect and the quotes you'll later provided about overall averages back me up.
You respond:
also i never said they were right about all there decisions because they have all the data. I said I'm pretty sure theirs a good reason they decide to balance the game around 60/40, since they have for years that doesn't mean they cant make a bad decision.So what you are doing here is antithetical to a good discussion. Of course BHVR can make bad decisions, you're highly unlikely to find someone who disagrees with that notion here - but arguing that the decisions you like must be supported by data we don't have is a dishonest framing, it's creating a different standard for what you argue vs your opponents.
Which is what I said here in my next response to you:
To have a discussion, you don't get to be selective about that. If you're going to argue that BHVR reached a decision based on data or their experience than that has to apply to discussion of all game elements, not just the ones where you happen to agree with them.All of this remains true on the evidence front. Which immediately leads to the happy/unhappy issue.
I'll go to my quote:
I'm not pretending to know what goes inside BHVR's heads. You are using these posts for them to say they are happy with the numbers. At no point do they make an exception to that statement.You will respond:
This is why i asked you where did they say they were happy with all of the numbers? You couldn't quote it because it wasn't there so you move the goal post and ask me….The issue here goes back to your original quotes about BHVR and all the data.
This is where the happy/unhappy argument comes from. If something is justified because BHVR says they are happy with it (60/40) because they have all the data, then that all the data point remains true for other arguments and there must be evidence that they are unhappy with the 48.3 for the argument to have any meaning. Your conclusion of 48.3 having any meaning in connection to BHVR is only backed up if they have a problem with it. It's your argument (to be clear: to rely on what data BHVR must have), not mine, thus the shifting the goal posts argument is on you because you aren't backing your own position anymore.
To put another way, there needs to be a logical flow from your evidence to your conclusions and there isn't.
However, if you aren't relying on BHVR to be evidence, then the whole issue is moot anyway which is why I say you concede the argument.
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Now, onto the quotes and redefining words.
You first use the word balance in the section I quote above - as a single word, not part of the quote. Later you will argue about people trying to redefine words, but balance can mean different things.
So for example balance can be used to mean - a situation in which two opposing forces have or are given the same power (Cambridge).
Under this definition, BHVR is clearly out of balance, they have a 60/40 split. Think of this like scales, typically we expect them to be even, but in this case they are not.
Now balance can also be defined as: to bring into harmony or proportion (Merriam Webster)
Not under this definition, BHVR could be in balance, because we introduce the concept of proportion. Again to use scales, one side could be weighted to be heavier if there is a reason for the scales to be offset (note the use of offset, we don't presume scales are balanced offset, we say it). However, to use balance in this way, you need to clarify that (and if you want to go further, balance can has lots of subtle differences in meaning if you want to dive into dictionaries)
@Firellius, myself and I reiterate this point - Firellius has more on the topic but I'll focus on my quotes -
They never say '60% is a balanced rate'. It's relatively balanced (not absurdly broken like a 70 to 80 would be, while still keeping the killer a 'force to be reckoned with') and its their intended balance - not a normal balance metric, but what they go for.You respond to me:
Balance is subjective, 60/40 to the dev team is balanced. It was literally word for word stated.To which I respond:
This depends on what you mean by the word balance. Many people, most I think, use it in a non-subjective wayBalance can also be used with attached conditions, such as BHVR does, but that does not mean the game is balanced in the sense of being 'even'.Here I'm trying to see it from your point of view. You could be using the proportional definition, but like I say above, I don't think that's the way people generally use it (i.e. its an objective word, not subjective, but you're using it in the less common way of being subjective).
But also, as I said, no one disagrees that BHVR has a 60% KR (you mention this in your last reply, no one ever disagreed with this that I can find). Many disagree with the numbers they've set or that it's balanced in an even sense (i.e. why we get phrases like 'relatively even'), but everyone knows that's the target for BHVR. This goes back though to whether you want to tie your argument to BHVR's standards or not. If you don't, if you're not arguing that we should trust BHVR, then the whole point is irrelevant.
Anyway, that's my run through, with quotes, of what progressed. I think things break down entirely after your 'I fixed it' post where I believe your changing of the quote from Firellius is extremely dishonest and bad for the discussion.
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My point isnt that coordination makes everything better. It’s that gen speed multipliers scale unusually well with coordination compared to other mechanics, which is why gens feel especially fast in swfs.I don't want to just repeat what @FerrousFacade is saying, but of all the strategies that SWFs can employ, gen rush seems the least unique. Compared to other mechanics, it seems to be one of the least improved by adding coordination.
Yo if we ever really, really disagree on something just tell me I'm wrong and I'll say "you right" and walk away. Challenging you is a fools errand.
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Most people are running this with things like Grim/Deadlock/Thrilling or a hex build. Hoping someone blesses a totem is silly.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052470#Comment_4052470
Ego is a big factor with this game, its community, and its feedback to the player. Outcome is possibly the worst determination of actual input into a match, yet it is the sole determination in most people's eyes. The only time it tends to change is out of excuses or forgiveness, when deep down we all know the game doesn't measure us as players appropriately. Thats why it tends to affect people who don't even worry about that kind of stuff, it starts to become a matter of "what actually is a good DBD player" when the gen jockey or turbo tunneler does better than we do when that is the only metric anyone cares about.
That isn't to say that anyone who notices this has an ego, but that we all do to some (un)reasonable degree, and our perceptions of matches get affected by it due to being graded and/or punished.rewarded differently than our performance.
I didn't feel terribly ego-driven before the stat page, nor did I care about outcomes much at all. I gave hatch a lot as killer, goofed and memed a lot as survivor, and then I had this number telling me who I was and it's slowly made me worse and worse, playing harder and harder, sucking the fun out. It's like I absolutely must see my overalls go up. I feel like I can't stop a session until I even out my stats. Lost 5 matches? Guess I'm playing 10 more. The smart thing to do would be to log out and forget it, but I know I won't. It really was a bad idea, especially with it being wrong, with people showing off high ERs attributed to abandoning every other match.
If it had more to it I'd be happier. I want wins and losses shown, not just kills and escapes. At least let me have a notch for being the only one who died. As it is, it does feel like the numbers emotionally punish good plays and reward bad ones.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052469#Comment_4052469
Ah, fair point. @jesterkind definitely belongs in the Iconic category, if not legendary
I concur
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052460#Comment_4052460
Main reason I stopped playing as much was because of internet issues, practicing what I preach and whatnot, but at this point I just manage burnout better than I did when I was in my "just one more game"/"This game wont be as bad as the last" phase. Not feeling obligation to play as much helps with frustration and defeatism, I've found. Wouldn't be surprised if others were similar after a few years.
I used to be okay and my harmful behavior has spiked because of the stat page. It's made my experience so much worse to have numbers hovering over me.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052454#Comment_4052454
Honestly, I was trying to remember all the names from the past that deserve to be on there more. There were a lot of users who used to give very insightful and well constructed analysis of things better than my rants, but they've been gone for years for one reason or another. I'm just an old head who barely plays anymore at this point, and I'm probably best known for my posts being too long to read comfortably on a phone 🤷♂️
Appreciate it regardless.
The new wave is pointless conflict anyhow.
Funny how many active members don't play much if at all.
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@Ryuhi belongs on the list too
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052446#Comment_4052446
Ah, thanks for the explanation!
Here I was thinking the DBD moderation team had sent someone to a forum purgatory where they aren't banned but were doomed to have all their posts auto removed and profile hidden unbeknowest to them…
Truly reality is disappointing…
Iirc it does look similar to being jailed and having all your past posts become hidden, so it's kinda confusing.
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It seems to be a bug. There was a post where I was the first comment and when I revisited there was one of those above me, so nothing had been removed or anything.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/I1HY141VOXS0/alan-wake-fortnite.gif
And look! Even Unknown decided to show up!
Unknown is the most iconic forum member.
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@Brokenbones said:
This is how I find out Coffeecrashing got banned damn
Agreed on the list tho, pretty accurate
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Excuse me sir but I go under "troll"
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052382#Comment_4052382
Totally agree. My story is much the same; I started as a killer main for almost 1K hours, moved into surv viewing it as a role where losing was almost a given. Now I have only really played solo queue and though I have gotten a lot better, I do still believe that the intent is that death is supposed to be probable, even if it isn't a given.
And remember, coming to surv having played a lot of killer puts you at a huge advantage over a brand new player.
I think new player retention is an issue for a number of reasons:
1. SBMM doesn't work. New players in both roles often go right into the meat grinder, and that has to feel bad.2. As a surv, you're not supposed to win most of your games regardless. People don't like losing.
3. Some people start out in SWF with friends, and discover life outside of SWF is a lot harder
4. It doesn't take long to realize just how much content there is, how much of it is necessary to succeed, and how much of it is paywalled
5. A lot of killer players choose a killer they like, only to discover as they get better that their chosen killer kinda sucks and isn't viable. Also a bad feeling
6. The comprehensive, global imbalance that is baked into the game's DNA.
I suppose the question that should be asked isn't "how do I keep my friends playing DbD?" but "Do I want to do that to them?"
Yeah i agree with all of this, and I wouldn't try to sell this game to anyone at this point because of how high-context and info-heavy it's become. I always try to advocate for the silent majority of players who are just average and casual and aren't yelling on social media. It's unfortunate that the people doing the talking are mostly the very experienced players, which doesn't help all the others.
When I started playing surv, I quickly got friend requests from fellow console players and I find them a really interesting example of the playerbase that goes unnoticed. I have two groups of friends: decent players I've met through the forum and elsewhere who understand the game and how it works—and play it well—and these PS players who I catch up with every couple months. They are terrible players and the matches are guaranteed loses, but all of them have been playing for years and have thousands of hours. I used to think they were so bold and impressive when I was a baby, and now I'm way better than them while they continue to stay the same. The split in the quality of players is truly astounding and its hard to know how to adjust for that.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052367#Comment_4052367
Yeah, beside the fact it would lead to only seeing the same survs, a lot of people would be salty af if their favorite surv(s) got the short end of the stick.
And as has already been said, it would just create the same problem we see with the killer roster.
But it does seem like it would have been a fun idea had it been part of the core game, provided you think BHVR could have balanced these powers out to make them equally appealing.It worked out in TCM, with victims having different abilities (though no perks, iirc), but this roster is so big it would be even harder to keep balanced. Coordinatied teams would be synergizing perks and characters and the complaints about SWF would be even worse.
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I started this game when it was well-established and already pretty unapproachable for new players. I stuck around because I only played killer. It took awhile to switch to survivor, and I viewed it as the role that was meant to lose, which made it easier to do so. Just not dying first was an accomplishment then. As time went on, I got better, I made friends, and I no longer have that view. But a gentle progression was needed to keep me playing.
Fast forward to now, where I occasionally play a round or two with my partner. If they jump on alone and I observe, I see the typical and baffling new player antics: everyone ducking and creeping about—even when there is zero danger—and killers who are legally blind. This is fine for the baby leagues. It's even. I can give a couple lazy instructions here and there and it'll be an escape. Then we play a couple rounds together, and I carry them to a higher lobby with matches more like my own, and even with me on constant babysitter duty, I cannot keep them alive. We are both dead every match, me usually first because I tried to defend them, and them after because they're helpless alone against a decent killer.
The worst way to be introduced to this game is by SWFing with established players. You'll be in over your head immediately. People need to go against or play with people at the same level of cluelessness as them or the game is a wash. People should probably start in solo to learn survivor so the matchmaking doesn't ruin the experience.
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I'd be pretty unhappy if my main got shafted with a crap ability yet I know I'd still play as them and just be mad all the time. This would have needed to be implemented when the game began.
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Billy, Pyramidhead, Wesker, Springtrap, and Huntress, off the top of my head.
I like killers who you can dodge repeatedly. Nothing is more satisfying than a Huntress wasting all her hatchets on you or tricking a Wesker into accidentally valuting.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052088#Comment_4052088
I'm saying you're playing victim by ironically saying you're a liar to me when you did unironically lie about slugging being an amoral strategy. Last message to you.
I'm afraid it's not my last message to you.
I didn't say amoral (though I think you mean immoral. What you're saying is that it's amoral.) I said nasty in regards to slugging with Third Seal, because that's a method that particularly targets soloqers who can't communicate their locations and what's happening.
I said I was given a free win in my own match, which is true. Playing poorly the whole match and then suddenly winning in end game is not only unfair but only works for killers. Survivors who play poorly all matcn are dead before end game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052082#Comment_4052082
You called slugging, a strategy, nasty.
Playing victim doesn't make you one.
How am I playing victim when I'm the one who did the slugging? The survivors were the victims. I'm telling you the game gave me something I didn't deserve by me crutching on perks and mechanics and ignoring skill.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052079#Comment_4052079
"…many players use nasty methods to win."
I would go point by point and refute your lies, but this right here does my work for me by indicating how you villify Killers who play to win and are not a trustworthy commentator.
Literally just posted my own killer match, which I played as killer, because I play killer.
Adding my name to the everyone-who-disagrees-with-me-is-a-liar list.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052040#Comment_4052040
This accusation of supposed hostility, of course, ignores all of the other individuals who have gaslit or been inflammatory themselves.
You're getting hostility because it's what you're giving. In this thread you:Defended a loud minority spamming their views to tilt the scales in their favor in regards to game balance, which is very unethical.
Called @Philscooper a liar for expressing an opinon.
Told @tjt85 that they're bad at the game because a killer used a very toxic, anti-soloq strategy, negated their feelings about the match and how it affected them, and then told them they weren't worth speaking to.
Also told @CrypticGirl they were ignorant, a liar for expressing an opinon, and dismissed them as well.
Dismissed @FerrousFacade as well.
Called @UnicornMedal a liar.
@SaltyNooty made a number of good points and all you did was dismiss them too.
No one in this thread is being as consistently nasty as you are. This might be the most outwardly rude responses to so many different people from one person that I've ever seen in my time here. What do you think you're accomplishing by calling everyone bad or a liar while refusing to acknowledge that many players use nasty methods to win and that it affects player morale? You expressed the view that killer is more stressful, which is an opinon and not a fact, and then went on to tell people their own opposing opinions are lies. If I find survivor more stressful than killer does that make you a liar in my eyes? No, it makes your opinon different.
Also, in regards to your question about what built-in comebacks killers have, here's a match of mine from yesterday:
I played like garbage, got one hook, and then slugged three people in end game and won. They deserved the win after how I played and the game's mechanics gave it to me for free.
Edit: I am also a liar for disagreeing.
Edit 2: I have also been dismissed.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051852#Comment_4051852
You should've continued to mind your own business and not created a word salad.
This is a forum. It you want a one-on-one conversation, DM someone. Otherwise, everyone is free to speak. Don't respond if you have nothing to say, but your level of excessive hostility is not constructive in any way.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051990#Comment_4051990
iv been arguing what the vast majority of swfs do in high mmr, not what the best survivors in the entire world does.
This goes back to you when you said you've met killers with 90% KRs those killers dont represent the vast majority of killers in high MMR. When you guys bring these people up your talking about the top 0.01 percent of players in the entire world.
High mmr doesn't mean the best players in the world. These are statistical outliers
These players
- Run perfect tiles
- pre planned pathing
- They track killer mind games instantly
- Abuse map knowledge to the pixel
- and they loop for minutes
Good players still make mistakes like pathing errors, misread mind games at times etc their not near perfection like these players you use as a example.
These players you use know the killer’s only correct option, and play around that, even against blight and nurse these players can route them for minutes. Their perks will reflect that.
Swfs ER isnt a whole 8% higher in High mmr because of these 0.01% of players.
This is why you see alot of times these survivor teams with these crazy wins streaks gets ended by a #1 killer or another top of the top killer.
Unless you have official data that shows the 8% directly correlates to those perks and that upper MMR 4mans use them wayyyy more than the other brackets, you're just saying what you want to believe. Players don't know their MMR, everyone just does a whole bunch of assuming, despite the matchmaking being notoriously bad. But I'd bet you anything that more teams win with DS or StB than Prove Thyself and similar perks. Stopping a tunnel is infinitely more valuable than two or three people sitting on the same gen.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051966#Comment_4051966
The only problem is that "fact" is you trying to assume gen multipliers aren't a problem based on how well some of the best survivors in the world can extend a chase.
For example we all know blight is a extremely bloated killer and performs well in high ELO, but does that mean the best killers in the world have to use him to perform there? No.
That's like me showing you a game saying
"Look at this game of trapper going on his 200th game win streak, trapper is S teir" Is it trapper or is it the player?
The truth is most players even in high ELO depend on crutches, killer and survivor.
You think the best survivor players in the world in a group need to sacrifice perk slots to make gens drastically shorter?
Go watch any top killer and see how many gen rushers he goes against.
You think the best survivor players in the world in a group need to sacrifice perk slots to make gens drastically shorter?
This is what you've been arguing though, that the top 4mans waste their slots on gen multipliers when in reality they mostly run second chance. It's not the top survivors using team gen perks, it's the average ones.
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@ONSAN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051814#Comment_4051814
Similar to a nurse
Don't assume you can't do it just because you're a controller, as this will help you grow. And not being able to do something is never a bad experience.
Do you want to be a crybaby?
Lol what nobody is crying. What does that even mean?
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@Massquwatt said:
Excessive/mass slugging rarely ever happens so I don't see it as an issue. In regard to tunnelling honestly all we need is a 5 second unhook notification delay. Long enough to allow the survivors to get away and reset but not long enough to allow under the hook healing with impunity.
Egerious slugging happens in my matches all the time. I was bled out twice just recently, in a 24-hour period. One was a killer who was mad I went down under a pallet and people were trying to save me. Every time I got picked up he'd slug me again, until I bled out. You shouldn't be able to keep doing that just because you're tilted.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051890#Comment_4051890
i feel like the reason is that he is fundamentally pretty simple. If you have good game sense and can predict survivor mindgames at loops already with other killers, you do not need to learn anything crazy like hillbilly singularity or oni. It is a simple point and click ability. And he is definitely easier against survivors who do not know how to play against him.
Nurse is mechanically difficult imo and buggy so she is definitely harder to pick up and play. I dont think vecna mains would be as good on nurse. Personally i am bad at nurse but i havent lost yet on vecna, although i have been getting mostly bad players.
I think Henry is a fun, colorful, easier version of Nurse, as in if you already play Nurse you should be able to manage the vine attack well. But I agree, it's not going to work the other way around.
Problem I'm having is that my opponenets as either role already seem to know him perfectly. The survivors are breaking LoS, holding W to get out of range, adjusting their movements based on what I do, and not clinging to check spots or walls. The killers I play against know what I'm going to do before I even seem to, and no matter what move I make I almost always seems to be in the hit radius. I have to assume I'm getting a lot of people who played extensively on the ptb, particularly the killers. It feels like I took a month off from this game and came back to a killer everyone already knows. Lesson learned. Next time a killer that's likely to be popular and strong is coming out I'll have to try things out on the ptb.
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I mean, that is the role. You know signing up there will be a new killer every 3 months. And the killer-player also as has to learn the new killer. What's weird about this one is how immediately good everyone seems to be with him, or at least the ones I've been playing against have been. They all feel like Nurse mains with a new toy.
But I agree, killers should have had to adapt to the ptb changes as well.
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But no, survivors are going to cry and get it nerfed into being one of the least played killers like Krause.
This isn't going to happen. I barely saw any Krasues even on release. I've already gone up against more Henrys in the last few days than Krasues total. He's also a licensed character and people will devote themselves if they like the license enough, especially for the first few months. Not to mention he's actually fun to play. I'd still play as him even with nerfs. I don't buy characters because I want to purchase wins, I buy them because they look fun to play as. I paid money for Henry but haven't even unlocked Krasue with shards because she looks totally unfun to play as. Same reason I still haven't unlocked Twins or Skull Merchant.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051703#Comment_4051703
I'm not suggesting to buy powercreeping DLC as a solution, but I have the opposite problem; i seem to lose 1 win 1 with Henry, but I've had way better luck playing survivor into him thanks to 11. she's the real killer of this chapter I swear.
I'm pretty attached to both my survivor and my perks and I'm not really sold on hers. Maybe when they end up in the shrine. I know I won't play as them so I usually can't bring myself to buy survivors.
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@ONSAN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051703#Comment_4051703
To improve your game skills, play as a killer, play as a survivor (using SWF communication), and play as a survivor (not using solo communication). Do these three things.
Use bonds, empathy, and predict the movements of survivors. This will give you experience as a killer.
Adding bonds and bloodlines to your voice communication will enhance the aura of your voice, making SWF even stronger. That's why I'm against standardizing bloodlines and bonds.
I'm not new to this game as either role, I just don't play ranged killers much because I'm on console.
Empathy is one of my default survivor perks though. It's value is unbeatable.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051685#Comment_4051685
I wanted some incentive to m1 since I'm an Xbox player; i originally thought Rapid, but I figured this was way better since Weave sets up his M2s. People sometimes stick their necks out trying to dodge my power, so I feel survivors don't expect me to not mind faking the power for a good Weave drop.
I didn't know what to combo with Unforeseen so I've just defaulted to Oppression for now. I find myself kicking gens a lot just for Unforeseen and right now I feel like I'm being lit up like a Christmas tree without it.
I'm also on console but have been making extra effort to become decent with the M2. It's so satisfying to land. I'll give it a shot though. I've also been faking power to make them run towards me so I can hit them, and I do miss my Weave build.
I also like undetectable builds. I might try Secret Project with something like Grim, Deadlock, DMS, or Thrilling.
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I've got really mixed feelings. He's super fun to play as but I'm not great with ranged killers. I've played 17 matches as him and I've won 11 of them. It works out to a 66% KR so far. So pretty okay results, nothing amazing. I usually do better than that when I hop on a new killer.
Playing against him has been a different story.
I've played against him 28 times so far. In 8 of those I've escaped. That's a 28% ER against him. Only one was a 4e. Three were hatch, so only I escaped. One was a player who had me in the mori stance in end game and let me go, so that would have been a death if he hadn't been nice. Only 4 of those 28 matches were wins for the survivor team and in almost all of these matches I was in a party, so it wasn't just soloq confusion. The Henrys I'm going against land damn near all their hits. I've never had so many losses against a new killer so quickly. Usually there's a period of figuring out both sides go through but this has been stomp after stomp after stomp.
I don't know how much can be changed though. Nerfs might make him unplayable for mid players but in good hands he's nearly unstoppable. I'm curious to see where things are at in a few weeks with everyone figuring things out more.
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I regularly use Franklin's/Weave but I haven't tried it on him because I'm trying to only use his M2. I wish Franklin's worked with M2s. I'll probably give it a go though because it is super appealing.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051561#Comment_4051561
Survivor doesnt need to full on gen stack because they've been buffed in every other way that its an indirect buff on their gen progression because they now spend less time than ever doing other things, so they can spend more and more time on gens, making their actions have more and more value compared to killer. (Along with their perks being easy and strong value for little effort)
Survivor has just been getting more and more efficient, getting more time on gens and has plenty of ways to ruin killer pressure, and it all adds up, so more killers need to keep gen regression perks on to keep up. So of course killer will stack it more, survivor has a better potential for doing their objective between the 4 of them.
Of course survivors focussing on stacking progression exacerbates the problem further. And of course, all these buffs for the worse players hugely buffed all the good players.
they've been buffed in every other way
In what way?
because they now spend less time than ever doing other things
What were they doing before that they aren't doing now?
Along with their perks being easy and strong value for little effort
Most survivor perks are trash. Chaos Shuffle highlights that. And lots of killer perks proc without the killer doing a single thing.
Survivor has just been getting more and more efficient, getting more time on gens and has plenty of ways to ruin killer pressure, and it all adds up, so more killers need to keep gen regression perks on to keep up.
Sure, survivor is very macro. What do you want them to do though. Be bad players? Anyone who's played for awhile should be thinking macro. It often feels to me that many killers don't want to do that. They just want to chase and hook with little thought to the big picture.
So of course killer will stack it more, survivor has a better potential for doing their objective between the 4 of them.
Four survivors are one quarter of a whole though. The killer is still the strong role.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051631#Comment_4051631
Gen speed potential is the core reason why SWFs are so good, They maximize there perks slots with consideration of their coms and coordination. Which means they dont need to run a all-out survival build because they have coms. They can get absolute PEAK value out of certain perks and strats, that a solo player could only dream of no mater how good he is.
Prove thyself isnt the problem, no singular gen perk in the game is the problem. The problem is how a swf can generate numerous strategies around their perks as a team. The most dangerous of perks that makes this so strong are gen perks because thats the objective. Coms itself is the ultimate defense to any killer in the game, especially with a team of experienced quality players.
The thing is Swfs will always be strong, and i feel like to place limitations on them through certain perks and such. Just seems silly because not all Swfs will play on the level of players in high mmr as the data has shown. but what we can do is cap multipliers for gen speeds, to limit how fast gens CAN fly.
So swfs cant abuse them with coms. In no circumstance should a gen get done by 2 people in 24 seconds. Thats absurd.
You're still saying SWFs as if you're not talking about a minority of a larger group. Most parties are just friends playing together and goofing off. I've played with lots of people and I've never once synced my perks with others except to meme. And the ones who are skilled and coordinating are doing stuff like MfT, WGLF, DH, DS, Soul Guard, Background Player, and Conviction so they can take hit after hit, down after down. Good players can run a killer. They don't need to slam gens.
I just think you're barking up the wrong tree here. I run Deja Vu, Built To Last, and a commodious with meta add-ons. I regularly do two to three gens alone. I can slam them all by my lonesome, solo or otherwise.
