cogsturning
cogsturning
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049872#Comment_4049872
Where did i mention bad team mates? i said people dodge lobbies because of the sound steve makes (which has been confirmed in this very thread).
You mentioned lobby dodging and anyone would dodge you based on how you play if they knew. You also expressed gladness at a change that reduces dodging yet you think it's funny people dodge you for playing Sable. If you really cared about dodging wouldn't you play someone else?
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So sad about this. Why do we hate fun?
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049324#Comment_4049324
Good thing about this is the foresight. If I knew their gameplay, I'd bring a build to best counter it lol
Luckily my builds always account for that sort of stuff. I didn't even realize it was the same players until after the match when I took a good look at the ones guys name and build on the scoreboard.
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@diablo916 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049302#Comment_4049302
Dude youre talking like survivor doesnt get free everything with no downside already. Sprint burst, hold W when not exhausted and you get free instant value, prove thyself, always active for free, deja vu is always on and speeds up survivor objective for free. Killer gets nothing and has to work for everything
Tinkerer, Phantom Fear, Deadlock, Bitter Murmur, and Weave Attunement are just a few of the killer perks triggered solely by survivor actions. Lethal Pursuer and Corrupt Intervention give you value just by loading in.
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@Balrog said:
Survivor can stress me out sometimes because I jumpscare very easily (even other Survivors can jumpscare me!). However, Killer time is so relaxing. Although occasionally on two floor maps a Survivor will fall from the ceiling and jumpscare me there, too.
The Nightmare and Houndmaster and The Dredge, and The Onryo are by far the most relaxing killers for me.
I'm not very skittish but since I'm on alert I regularly get spooked by teammates suddenly running up to my gen or popping out from behind a corner when the killer is a stealth one.
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I had a super obnoxious duo on my survivor team one night running Boil Over, Expo, Unbreakable, Dead Hard, etc and going for sabos/slug recovery. They made the Twins player DC. Next day I landed them in my killer match. It was grueling but I beat them. The amount of slugging I had to do was absurd though. Crazy to think they play that way all the time. I could never.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049284#Comment_4049284
They shouldn't need to hold people's hand. People can read this post and act on it in their own way by, for example, calling out others who are perpetuating the problems in question and acting differently than them.
How interesting that you, a brand new account, are defending another brand new account so thoroughly, knowing exactly what they intended with a post that says almost nothing. Quite a remarkable connection. It's not handholding to write full thoughts. "Nothing can be done" is not a proper discussion point. What are you even saying? Call out who? About what? State a problem, state a solution.
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Imagine spending 30s to build a pallet just to have a default Feng run by and drop it without a thought. This will defintely improve soloq.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049266#Comment_4049266
Hardly. Their post implies that enough people give BHVR leniency for complacency to problematically set in.
While giving zero context or ways to move foward. Their response to "what should people do about it" was "nothing." There's nothing productive about this.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049263#Comment_4049263
That's where I think the wheel would help, for people that haven't sunk thousands of hours in the game, or who have but just haven't developed any gamesense. At the very least, it'd be nice to be able to tell someone not to unhook you in the killer's face.Thats all well and good, but the fact that they aren't developing those skills means they are more likely to provide bad or pointless information with it than they are to properly assist someone. And unfortunately, everything is always everyone else's fault other than whoever is the one making the complaint. Since the information is redundant when properly digested, it becomes extra noise every time that kind of feature is utilized, and sometimes can contradict the HUD information if misinterpreted. The point of solo queue is supposed to be doing your best to work toward a shared goal within your own capacity while complimenting the successes and failures of your teammates doing the same: The moment survivors start taking over each other's agency instead of simply supporting it, that goes even further off base.
This is unfortunately a game where someone could have over 2000 hours, but have spent something like 1500 of them just watching a progress bar fill. While the average ratio is obviously nowhere near that, the point is that you don't have to learn how to play in every aspect to succeed beyond your abilities, something that obviously also applies to killers who overrely on LCD strats. My point is that I don't want those people to misinterpret information at me as a player when I may have already digested the correct information with the HUD and perks I have brought, especially since it then creates a point of frustration in that player if I don't heed their callout spam. If you've never seen an argument in a pub match in a MOBA or tactical FPS, people tend to get really angry when others don't follow their orders, especially when they're objectively bad calls. I feel it would hurt the community more than it would help it, especially given the fact its really not necessary.
Edit: forgot to mention, but thank you for talking about using perks to complement the HUD info as well as alternative info from perks like Empathy, as I feel like they really are something people don't practice enough.
I mean, what I'd personally like to see more than anything is a comprehensive tutorial, in-game tips, and more varied matchmaking criteria. It's ridiculous that someone who works on all the right gens, unhooks right, heals right, all while also juicing the killer gets nothing but an MMR loss if they're the one death while another survivor who rode on their back and strolls out the gate after doing nothing gets an increase. Matchmaking that can recognize productive players (and team wins) would help this playerbase's mindset a lot.
As for the wheel, if agency is an issue, it's not s though you have to obey. It could also be things solely related to you. "Killer camping me" "letting go" " brought hatch at shack". Things that aren't commands like "heal me," "meet me at shack," "don't unhook," "do gens". In keeping with the spirit of survivor, it could also be a limited resource, like each player can only use it three times or something. That would keep it from being spammable too. It could also fall off when you get to upper MMR. You should have enough gamesense at that point. Personally I think this stuff would mostly benefit others over me. I don't really need training wheels anymore. The matchmaking is what I really want for myself.
I know someone who has almost 5k hours, all in survivor. Far more than me, especially since my hours are split with killer. She's utterly clueless. I had to explain to her I was letting go because the match was lost and I wanted her to go for hatch. She then also equipped a hatch offering, not understanding one was enough. She also can't identify killer perks to save her life. It's quite shocking. I don't know how you can play that long and know nothing, nor do i know how to fix that particular problem, though the in-game tips might help.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049254#Comment_4049254
Even if that's the case, that doesn't mean that everyone complains sensibly.
Case in point: OPs vague post about nothing.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049247#Comment_4049247
For as much as I see people push the chat wheel idea, nobody ever seems to think about the impacts that has on the rest of the game. Then again, they also don't tend to realize that the updated HUD information already almost all of the information that a chat wheel would, just without the whole idea of "being able to tell other people what to do." Almost anything you would want to convey through a chat wheel can be gleaned by paying attention to things like player statuses, their progress bars, the chase indicators, etc. The crux of the argument comes from wanting to force your teammates to utilize that information smarter, and this game was never designed around that. Believe it or not people used to be able to make those types of calls without any of that information, with the most you'd get being people being injured/down/hooked and maybe if the obsession was in chase.
Meanwhile if its spoken, you need to create new voice lines for all the actors. Then you have to decide whether it can be heard by the killer or not, and the consequences that would have for either decision. Obviously this would cause extra issues with celebrity voices. If not spoken, the same question applies regarding whether the killer can see it or not. All of this also hinges on the multilingual playerbase of the game as well: Only English? Match the client's language? Since different languages have shorter or longer ways of saying the same thing, now you have to localize everything in a way where meaning is maintained while keeping the text concise enough to not flood the screen with clutter text. And you better put a long cooldown on everything regardless of the method so you don't get L4D-tier callout spam.
Its never as simple as just putting a speech wheel in because other games which were designed around them are able to have them. This game was designed around limited communication, and the updates to the HUD have been an honestly great way of giving players the ability to get that information themselves, without running into those caveats in either application or usage. I'll always go back to kindred as my example on the subject: Everyone wants it basekit, all 4 survivors benefit when even a single person does, it becomes even stronger regarding hated strategies like camping, it supplements the HUD information extremely well, when taken personally it fills all of the info gaps the moment someone is on a hook, its not a p2w perk, yet nobody takes it because they need to keep room in their loadout for a literal yellow paint perk that stunts growth.
I agree that the HUD (plus perks) gives you enough for the most part once you have some gamesense. I use Deja Vu to have constant info on gens and to break 3 gens. I use Empathy to know where the killer is most of the time, as well as monitoring injured people's whereabouts and going to heal them at proper times. I watch the HUD constantly. I do this whether I'm solo or not. Same perks, mostly, except a medkit instead of a toolbox. It takes some time to get the right level of gamesense and find your favorite perks for info. That's where I think the wheel would help, for people that haven't sunk thousands of hours in the game, or who have but just haven't developed any gamesense. At the very least, it'd be nice to be able to tell someone not to unhook you in the killer's face.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048868#Comment_4048868
This is the game…being hooked takes away player autonomy. cant do anything when hooked but thats the game we play. do we complain about being hooked and how we cant play the game because we are stuck on hook twiddling our thumbs?
Im not sure streamers have much to do with it, i dont watch streamers i just used logic to determine that tunneling 1 player out is more efficient and faster which is whats needed in the dbd race, i dont need a streamer to tell me that.
i dont think the kill rate would drop below 60% i know it would. As i previously said, ideally yes nerf tunneling then buff the killers that struggle…. Realistically this cant happen due to how long it would take BHVR to buff individual killers. The roster is too big and it would take too long, during which time killers would stop playing and the game would likely die waiting on BHVR to buff the killers. Maybe when the game was newer and had less killers, this could be done but not now there are way too many. If they even attempted to try doing it fast it would be a rush job and we all know how that would pan out. Therefore, in order to keep killers playing they need to keep the kill rate up, this is done by nerfing gen speeds at the same time. Its pretty much the only thing that would make me stop tunneling and as long as people keep fighting back with "no to touching gen speeds" and the devs listen to these people and not touch gen speeds then tunneling will remain from my point of view.
Then fine, nerf gen speeds in conjunction with rolling out anti-cheese. But this "I'll stop tunneling if the gen speeds change" pinky swear honor system thing is bs.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049221#Comment_4049221
I can't speak for what OP intended, but I take it as both a vent and a commentary on the community's lack of criticism — sure, plenty of people do criticize BHVR, but more people could and should do that.
All we do in this forum is complain.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049226#Comment_4049226
Regardless, you admit that SWF would have given advantages even if it was turned from a stomp to a more even match which has always been my point. A chat wheel with spread out might have helped a little but clearly not as much as SWF on comms unless you include a way to call out specific locations to counter fright.
i have said many times all i seem to get is blight after blight after blight with the occasional nurse, ghoul and billy thrown it from time to time. You do love to assume lol but again your assumptions are incorrect. im just satisfied that you acknowledge SWF with comms can have an advantage…an advantage that your dead against soloq having as your previous argument was "SWF doesnt make bad players good"… clearly it would have had some sort of effect in your match where you were slugged which you have now admitted.
You're still lacking nuance on this topic. SWF (not just comms, since knwoing your teammates and how they play is the true key) can give advantages and disadvantages in equal turn, just like random soloq teammates can. I have multiple friends who land me with a 20% ER for a session every time I play with them because they're reckless. Friends can hinder and hurt unless you choose them solely for skill, and idk who is out there doing that unless they're comp. My three teammates in this match may well have been a 3man on comms and still blwon it. There's no way to know. I guarantee you anyone i know would have died against this guy who was probably doing some winstreak challenge bs, comms or not.
I mean, you did post only one match against a very bad Bubba player. So that's all I have to go on.
I'm not really sure what it is that you want. You love bragging about your ever growing ER and talk about how happy you are with your matches, yet take ever single opportunity to mention SWF like you're jealous over comms, which you clearly don't need because your ER is higher than mine and you don't care about team escapes.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049107#Comment_4049107
hang on, i thought SWF doesnt make bad players good? You have just proven the very argument i have been making for months….SWF with comms have advantages and no amount of "Wheel" for solo will ever compare to that…comms is whats needed. So your answer is not to provide soloq with comms so they can handle the "cheese" like SWF could but to get rid of the cheese which would make SWF even stronger? Is this why SWF players struggle in solo? do they rely too much on comms and call outs to combat the "cheese"? My guess would be yes being as im a regular solo player and dont really have issues like this.
Different doesn't mean we would have won, it just wouldn't have been a stomp into oblivion. I've been in 4mans who've been beat by killers just like this one. Hell, I've been full-team slugged at 5 gens two minutes in while in a 4man. Full and unpredictable cheese on a skilled, high tier killer is damn near impossible to beat with a team of any normal players. A chat wheel call out that said "spread out" would have helped.
I don't know where you get this struggle narrative from. I played 19 solo matches yesterday. Escaped 11. Thats almost 60%. More than my typical SWF ER. So I'm not struggling. You don't have issues like this because you're probably not getting a whole lot of p100 Blights with all those MMR-less hatch escapes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049212#Comment_4049212
What about their other examples?
Again, what's the point of the post? That they haven't done everything perfectly? If you want to quit because a stream went south or the killswitch wasn't used or any other issue then cool. Good luck finding something perfect to engage with. It's not as though you see many people actively defending them. The whole point of the forum is to discuss issues (which all of these have been discussed when they occured) and make suggestions about moving forward. "Omg BHVR sux" isn't very productive.
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@Astaroth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049208#Comment_4049208
Chandler stream
Patrick with his hockey analogy
Pinhead NFT
Cheaters DDoS
Controversial nerfs and buffs
Not using killswitch despite broken stuff happening
The list goes on and on
What is it that you'd like people to do about it? Quit the game because of a bad analogy or unfavorable game adjustments?
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Could you perhaps elaborate?
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049107#Comment_4049107
The game asks why too much of survivors while giving them zero guidance.
I absolutely agree with this, but you don't remedy this by making the game start playing itself with easy answers to everything. Because as i said that leads to serious imbalance. A robust tutorial would be a great start, but a massive discrepancy between killers and survivors is there is ALOT more educational content out there for killers. Most survivor content is meme worthy stuff or showing off, not at all about helping survivor players learn and improve. Which i think definately plays a role in the average skill gap between roles.
The goal should be to raise the average survivor's skill rather than keep lowering the floor until its underground, which is the direction we were/are heading and thats really the worst kind of thing you can do.
You shouldn't have to watch external videos to learn a game though. Not everyone interacts with that stuff. The game needs to tell players how to play. I've learned everything in this game through experience, not CCs, and it's taken a long time just to be halfway decent. It doesn't make any sense to me that survivors especially are thrown to the wolves for a thousand or so hours. I didn'thave nearly so much to learn as killer.
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Not a popular take but this might be my favoirite map, and solely for its look. I've missed the hell out of that dungeon. I can deal with its other issues because of how much cool detail there is.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048854#Comment_4048854
Literally this. /endthread
Nothing will help when people just cant play the game well at all. The real killers are the awful survivors. You can't balance around incompetency because that's just buffing the players who don't need it and now you have a serious imbalance issue. Handholding these players does nothing except make the core issue worse because they will never improve.
The game asks why too much of survivors while giving them zero guidance. If there was a ping system and a chat wheel, and a proper tutorial, it might be different. But as it is you need both 1k+ hours and external help to fully understand every killer's abilities, perks, toxic perk synergies, how to optimize your own perks, which gens to do and when, when to unhook, when to heal, who to not heal against, etc.
I had a soloq match yesterday with a Blight who was only slugging. He used Infectious Fright to bounce rapidly between targets. Half the problem is that this killer was using the ability to slug and a certain perk build to intentionally play like a douche, the other half is there was no way for me to tell my teammates what this killer was up to even though I figured it out fairly fast. And this was the result:
A four minute bleedout. If I'd been in a 4man, it would have been different. We would have separated and called out our locations to avoid triggering Infectious, and we all would have quickly known what he was trying for. But countering cheese is extrememly hard for soloqers with what's in place so something has to change. Otherwise, soloqers mostly exist to satisfy killers with easy wins and that's a crappy way for the game to work.
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Make all three legendaiers for whoever wins. No reason they can't be a group.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048871#Comment_4048871
Some killers and strategies used by the killer still exist in this game because their needed for facing Experienced SWFs
How much a killer can get done before a generator pops is what determines what killer or strategy is the best. If we can somehow nerf how fast these experienced SWFs get gens done to where mostly high mmr SWFs feel that change.
We can enforce harder protections on slugging, tunneling, and wouldn't need killers who can move around the map like superman. That directly helps solo Qers. Does it not?
You didn't say anthing about anti-cheese in your original comment. You said nerf gen speeds and S-tier, neither of which will make huge changes for soloq. They get stomped by more than just 3 killers.
The way you're saying this makes it sound like you don't want these changes rolled out all at once. Nerf gen perks and gen speeds in some way? Fine. But the anti-tunnel and the S tier nerfs have to happen at the same time. Otherwise it's just soloqers getting thrashed at 5 gens instead of 3.
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I think it could potentially be a very cool piece of concept art that's actualization would end up comical in game. Being carried by head form Krasue is so cringe to look at. I don't want anymore goofiness like that.
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@top500spiderman said:
Buffing survivors just for solo q is silly
Bringing the baseline closer to the top doesn't fix anything, ul still get tunneled, slugged and ul go against more S-teir killers.
Nerf gen speed multipliers to DIRECTLY nerf swfs, then adjust the current S-teir killers. Does that not help solo Q?
If solo Q is miserable and the devs seems to be balancing around swfs, then bring the top closer to the baseline.
Please further explain how nerfing gen speeds helps soloq.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048852#Comment_4048852
To be fair the same narrative could be said for survivors regarding the crying….killers bring slow down perks they cry, killers tunnel they cry, killers slug they cry, killers camp they cry, killers go S tier killers they cry, killers bring lightborn or noed they cry, killers bring full aura read they cry.
Im not saying killers dont cry about what survivors do, some killers will but It all comes down to that all so famous rule book, play by my rules or we will cry about it.
As for who started it…. its the chicken and the egg. you might have started bringing toolboxes and such as a result of tunneling. I started tunneling as a result of gen speeds. Hence why BOTH need addressing.
Saying killers wont stop tunneling if gen speeds get nerfed is like saying survivors wont stop gen rushing if tunneling gets nerfed. Asking politely to not do something wont work, both have to be nerfed, not just put on faith that "we will stop if x, y or z gets done".
Ok but this is about survivors being somehow responsible for the choices killer's make. But sure, everyone complains about everything if you want to go there. Couldn't care less about most of what you mentioned myself, except the cheese, which is not comparable to the other things you're mentioning. Lightborn doesn't stop survivors from playing. Neither does gen regress or aura read or Blight. Noed is just embarassing. But tunneling, slugging, and camping take away player autonomy. There no comparable equivalent for killers. I cant do anything if I'm being hook-camped. Killers can still act even if gens are popping. They can still win too.
Who started it? Probably streamers encouraging people to tunnel. At least in terms of it getting big. It's become the Bible of unbearable killer streamers. It never even occured to me to use any of these tactics when I was a killer only player because I didn't have the slightest idea how other killers played until I picked up survivor.
If you think not tunneling would make the rate go below 60%, wouldn't it be logical to make that happen so killers can then be adjusted? Anyway, I'm fine with gen speeds being increased if we get solid anti-cheese.
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I voted for the older woman but I dig the red-haired guy as well as he is. I'd actually be more likely to use him than the one I voted for, I just want a little age diversity, and we already have a couple older guys.
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Survivors didn't force this into killers. I started bringing gen perks and toolboxes as a response to cheese tactics. If you want to shove people out of the match then what can I do but try to shorten it? I changed my loadout for a fog vial build for about 10 whole days, but killers cried about a mid toy for survivors, so I'm back to gen speed shortening.
People aren't going to stop tunneling if base gen times get increased. Time and again they've said they'd stop doing it if x, y, or z happened and it's worse than ever. At least the honest ones will admit they do it because it's the easiest path of least resistance. Gens taking longer will just mean more time for tunneling for a good deal of the people who already do it. Not to mention many seem to have zero idea how to play this game without running back to the hook. No map awareness, no gamesense. Just one tactic.
There's also nothing else do it. If the survivors all cluster on one gen and bang it out at game start, killers cry. If they spread, killers cry. There's no winning. It's like some people want the survivors to just run up to them so they can be chased and not touch gens at all.
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@Nazzzak said:
The young girl is like the heroine from some YA fantasy series. I won't be able to take it seriously if she wins. The older woman has clearly seen some ######### and I want to know her story. I do think you're right that it'll come down to the women.
Oh no she really does look like the inner art for a book about politics and dragons in a magical kingdom. I can't unsee it now.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048104#Comment_4048104
The problem is when we try to talk about making the gameplay fun for killers, the conversation gets an overwhelming amount of pushback.
Excessive hiding is unfun for killers, and we we SUPPOSED TO have a phase 1 update to address this problem, but survivors complained they are "just trying to survive", and got the entire thing nerfed so badly that BHVR might as well just revert the AFK crows to what they were before phase 1.
Bully SWFs are unfun for killers, but if people try to talk about that, we get told it's not really a problem, or "at least they aren't doing gens"
Gen rushing is unfun for killers, but if people try to talk about that, we get told "it's not real" or "that's not what gen rushing is"
Being forced to slug isn't fun for killers, but if people try to talk about that, we get told "slugging is worse for survivors" or "it's not really a problem"
Voice comms and SWFs aren't fun for killers, but if people try to talk about that, we get told "you can't punish people for playing with friends"
So really, when people say "making the gameplay fun", the vast majority of the time it's really "making the gameplay fun FOR SURVIVORS ONLY"
Goes both ways. Survivors complain about cheese and you can spin a wheel and get one of these responses:
"Your team messed up"
"Should have slammed gens while your teammate was tunneled/camped/slugged"
"Killers are just trying to win too"
"You shouldn't have gen rushed"
"Should have brought perks"
"You need to adapt"
"Get better at looping"
"Blame matchmaking, not players"
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048170#Comment_4048170
I ses your concern. My intention with thèse ideas was not to make 4 man harder just so. I made it easier for them to rank up because playing in a 4 man is significantly easier than the rest imo. Potato swfs will eventually Land where they should in the skill bracelets but it will take a bit longer for them. Ideally what could be done instead is a winstreak will shoot UP your mmr collectively a lot.
The winstreak thing is tricky. Like I said, as killer I'll stomp a lot and end up shooting up too fast. How many matches should you win before that happens? It already happens pretty fast in my experience. It's even trickier for survivor if you're talking about partying up. If the system only acounted for comp teams who mostly play together, sure, but that's not only unlikely to happen but they're not common. What if one person on the team has a winstreak and the rest are average? And what is even considered a winstreak? I don't think I've ever even escaped 10 survivor matches in a row.
Ideally, keeping all the super competitive, high KR/ER players together is the key, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen because there just aren't enough of them to put against each other, especially with everyone divided up by region.
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I'm never going to agree that SWF should be given a harder experience by default. A 4man comp team and a 4man potato team of friends are not the same. You shouldn't be forced into harder matches because you have friends. If you keep winning in parties, you're MMR will naturally go up anyway. Maybe once you get to high it can be harder to go back down, but you're still forcing people into matches they'll be stomped in.
I don't think it should be that way for high tier killers either. If I get start paying a new killer whose strong and I stomp for 20-30 matches, the oppoennets get harder. That part already works. If anything, it goes up too fast and you end up with skilled opponenets who know the killer better than you do. That aspect shouldn't be made worse than it already is.
And as previosuly mentioned, queues times and matchmaking are messed up during events. The only reason I even play 2v8 is because of how bad matchmaking is for 1v4 during that time. The game may be popular, but the queues are messed up for every single event.
Skill brackets, yes. Ping system and chat wheel, yes. Voice comms, no. MMR based on more than just kills and escapes, big yes.
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PS5 and, recently, Steamdeck.
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Abandons are messing up personal survivor stats. We don't need more options to make it worse until thats resolved (if ever). Advocate for in-game solutions instead of just more ways to leave. Instead of 90s slugged for abandon make it so you can bleedout faster and encourage the killer to either hook or loose the kill. Or a revisit of the basekit Unbreakable idea. For killers, have the end game collapse speed up if all remaining survivors are within the gates. Things that are one-sided and uninteractive should be solved within the gameplay. A game where everyone wants to just leave all the time because of other players actions has problems that need to be solved, not just glossed over.
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@Classic_Rando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048073#Comment_4048073
”They could honestly make the kill rate 90% and if they found a way to make the game actually fun for survivors to play while losing then people would likely not care about the kill rate stat.”
No, “honestly” that isn’t true at all. People complain about the game on both sides because they lose more often than they think they should. You are trying to make this way more complicated than it is. I understand now why the devs have such a difficult time making the game “fun” for people when they are getting such nebulous feedback about what makes the game “fun”. People are going to have more fun if they are winning and not losing - it’s quite simple.
That's not necessarily true. I currently escape about half my survivor matches and I'm happy with the number itself. I don't mind the other half being losses. The matches I mind are when the killer wins by slugging everyone after playing like straight trash all match, or when I get tunneled out immediately, or I get slugged for the 4k and am crawling around on the ground for four minutes, or camped into second stage/death. It's absolutely the cheese that makes this game unfun for many people. Those are the ones that stick with you and piss you off. Regardless of role, I'm fine with losing to people I feel played better/smarter than me, but that's often not how it goes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046122#Comment_4046122
It is a bizarre phenomenon that needs to be studied. Why are console players on average worse than pc players?
Because the controls and reaction speeds are different. I can always spot PC players by the way they move. It's completely different from me. Sensitivity adjustments help somewhat, but there's still input lag. I can't go from still to running instantly, there's a brief speed-up using a joystick to get to full speed, which makes precision difficult. You can still get very good though. I go against good console players plenty, but it takes more time and effort.
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As killer, if I'm running Weave/Franklin's I'll dodge if they're aren't at least three items. The build doesn't work without items. More than one TTV, YT, or Tiktok username as well. I know it can't be avoided, but I don't want to be in people's videos, so if they're all advertising, I'm out. Three or more toolboxes will also make me leave.
For survivor, not much except for maybe a duo with cutsy matching names and flashlights. Things don't end well for those.
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I agree with most of this except maybe Spirit. Though everyone does use the same add-ons with her, she is already pretty strong.
I'm desperate for Dredge to have more lockers. The gens on the streets of Badham are pretty much auto losses for me almost every time. Same with some parts of Lery's.
Would be great if they'd chill on new content and really do a proper QoL
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047546#Comment_4047546
It just might be that way with DBD.
Also, am I the only one on the planet that has had the same account for everything for 16+ years? 😂🤣
My PS account is about that old. Having recently made a Steam account, it feels super weird. It's so empty.
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@Balrog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4047676#Comment_4047676
At least you're honest about it.
It's half sarcastic. A more genuine answer is that I hit peak addiction with this game around the time I joined here, but I don't have any social media so I liked that this was a seperate place to discuss just this one game.
But I do also enjoy lengthy arguments.
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It's would be nice if there was a bit more regular engagement with the forum users so it felt like the place was seen. If many of us can find time to be here daily, so can the mods.
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I like to argue and am a huge fan of zero-stakes conflict.
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I think they need to listen to regualr players, but a better and more organized feedback collection system is needed to filter bias. Feedback collection shouldn't be through unchecked social media accounts that are easy to create and spam with. It should go through your actual game account with a system that can compare what you say with who you are in the game. What we have now is a bunch of random voices (and CCs who make momey off the game) screaming for whatever they think will benefit them. We always have a constant flow of forum users who do nothing but complain about the side they don't like and it's pretty useless for gathering anything meaningful.
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If you have about 3k hours on Steam and this isn't a super common user name, @THE_Crazy_Hyena and I played against you recently.
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@Mono_Neko said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046986#Comment_4046986
It's not cheese… Is doubling gens cheese? Is spreading gens cheese? No, it's efficient. If the speed boost isn't enough to get out of a corner then the survivor might be bad and not avoid lockers.
Not really since people with 3000 hours have played worse than people with 300 hours.
Then you wait a little less and adapt.
I can only trust you on the part with your aquitances but even comp players agree that you need to tunnel, in settings where survivors are heavily restricted, so you can imagine in pub…
Okay let's take Friday 13th then. Is Jason expected to drop someone after grabbing them just because it's the start of the match and "It doesn't respect their playtime"? NO
There's literally nothing else for survivors to do but gens unless you give them something to do, which is how pressure works. Keep people off gens, keep them unhooking and healing. It truly feels like some people have no idea how to properly engage with this game's bigger picture.
These two things also aren't the same. Three gens can get done with the killer getting no hooks and they can not only still play but still win. A tunneled survivor can't play anymore, and an early tunnel usually decides a match, trapping three people in a hopeless match. So you have four unhappy people because of one person's choice. No other multiplayer I've ever played has robbed players of agency like this one has.
How would you like someone to avoid a locker that they're hooked right next to when the killer can instantly teleport to it after an unhook? Not to mention most good tiles, as well as shack, have lockers. Good luck avoiding them.
The comp players can do whatever they please. The game's balance should revolve around regular, average players.
You really aren't going to be able to compare this game to any game because it 1) has been around for a decade and has a lot of baggage and emotion tied to it 2) has a bigger playerbase than any competitor and 3) all of its competition has died and therefore doesn't make for great comparisons.
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If you think those perks are handholdy then don't use them. Nothing is stopping you from going in perkless. If you think the off-the-hook Endurance is handholdy, then stand there for 15s or until the killer hits you. Killers have bloodlust, aura read perks, and killer instinct. Deadlock, Bitter Murmur, Spies from the Shadows, Human Greed, Territorial Imperative, and Tinkerer are just some of the perks triggered solely by survivor actions with the killer doing nothing to earn them. Both sides get free stuff.
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@Mono_Neko said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046956#Comment_4046956
You shouldn't escape every game, period. The game is a 4v1 so a win for survivors is 3 out or more. Yes mmr doesn't recognize that but everyone else does so you are just butt hurt at that point.
Killers aren't "boosting" their rank, they are using optimal tactics and survivors are whiny about it, just learn to loop ffs.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046960#Comment_4046960
Then don't stay under the hook like every good survivor will tell you…. Between the time where you get unhooked and the time it takes the killer to TP, you are safe, otherwise you threw, I tested it.
Who created the deadzones in the first place? Survivors, so you didn't manage the ressources correctly and, with the amount of times I see Megs prethrowing all the pallets in areas, I can say it IS the survivor's fault, not the killer's fault. Also if you know there is a deadzone, don't die next to it, you can't be mad at the killer for taking advantage of your poor positioning. It's like if someone got mad at a sniper for shooting them when they walk in the open for a minute….
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046945#Comment_4046945
Hours don't mean ######### and you know it…
This 200 hours Wraith might be on a new account or simply changed plateform. Hours doesn't equal skill.
Deathslinger shots can be bated, houndmaster is saveable (wait for her to hit you and save during cooldown). I will give you that iri huntress is the exception, yes. You'd need 2 people for a save and that needs much more coordination. Not impossible but in soloq it is nightmarish.
This has always been a killer vs survivor issue, the killer saying that "they don't need to do that to win" are low MMR and throw their own matches which is really weird.
Are you gonna get mad in a fighting game if your opponent uses fireballs from range when your character can only do melees? Ofc! Does it mean the opponent shouldn't be able to spam fireballs? NO. It means you need to adapt and find ways to block/dodge the fireballs and get closer to hit them!
Are you gonna get mad at a sniper for shooting you in the head when you stand still? Yes. Should they throw the game and let you stand still for minutes? NO, you need to find covers, be unpredictable…
Need more analogies or do ya'll get the point?
You shouldn't escape every game, period.
Where did I say you should?
just learn to loop ffs
Just learn to play without cheese.
And looping isn't always possible. I play as Dredge. If I wanted to, I can sit in a locker near the hook and then teleport right beside it the moment someone unhooks and surprise hit them immedialty, wasting their Endurance. If there's nothing decent nearby to use, they're screwed.
This 200 hours Wraith might be on a new account or simply changed plateform. Hours doesn't equal skill.
Smurfing and cross progression aren't the same as your genuine hour count. You can generally tell when a person's hours are legit by how they play.
wait for her to hit you and save during cooldown
You said wait until the last second. If you do that, the hooked survivor is going second/dying while the dog is dragging you. This requires a second person to do the save, and at that point the camping is working because there's one person on gens, at most.
This has always been a killer vs survivor issue, the killer saying that "they don't need to do that to win" are low MMR and throw their own matches which is really weird.
Yeah no, it isnt. Almost everyone I know plays both roles. It's a certain type of player vs another type. The best killers I've ever played against have been super skilled at applying pressure, mind gaming, and landing all their hits. The people who really want to be great at the game and don't want hollow ego-feeds are the ones who learn how to do more than just cheese.
Need more analogies or do ya'll get the point?
Games where the roles are fairly equal are not equivalent to this game.
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@saym said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046963#Comment_4046963
The entire point you’re making in the second half can’t even be debated when MMR isn’t visible in the first place, lol.
These are facts? We do know some things about how the system works even if we can't see the numbers. We know that hatch gives no MMR. We know bots give no MMR. We know it's only kills and escapes that count. We know there are four brackets. There are videos where people say they keep their MMR low on purpose, so we know people are already manipulating the system. And pretty much everyone agrees the matchmaking is bad regardless.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046956#Comment_4046956
You are palying game where you cant 1v1 trapper and walk out like from other games, if the gens are done and that one survvior isnt near death they can still get him saved and even 1 kill is loss an win for the team you are palying team mode as survvior not "everyone fend for them slefs" mode but this sgouldnt happen if mmr works and only in swf you can get low hours survviors mostly because they paly with other survivors that have way higher mmr.
That's cool and I agree it's a loss for the killer, but killer and survivor wincons aren't the same. I wish they were and the one tunneled survivor gets the win too, but they currently don't. They just get a death on their stats and an MMR loss. Though I very much view this game as a team one, many in soloq either don't view it as such or don't know how to properly play as a team, and the game is doing nothing to show them how. We don't even have a decent tutorial.
if mmr works
That is a big "if"