cogsturning
cogsturning
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@saym said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046950#Comment_4046950
If that’s the case, BHVR needs to recognize that harassment has actually increased now that MMR is not visible.
When someone posts a screenshot of getting a 4K with a new Chucky build, people immediately dismiss it with insults like, “That just means the survivors had low MMR.” This makes it clear that the current situation is far more serious.
"Harassment" is a bit of a strong word for what you're describing, but in the same way MMR assumptions are used against people, so will MMR facts be used against the game. A killer could get stomped by four survivors in a lower bracket and use that to argue that survivor is busted. Same thing with four higher survivors against a lower killer. The argument manipulation and cherry-picking will get worse than it already is.
MMR only has 4 brackets, which is way too narrow, and the gains and losses are also too loose, being only escapes and kills and nothing about actual performance. If you slug 4 survivors and they all abandon, you get a 4k on your stats and 0 MMR increase. If you go out of your way to escape through hatch every match, your MMR stays low even if you're cracked. The system is not great and people are probably in brackets they don't belong in. Maybe if the upcoming MMR rework is stellar, sure, but as it is, the info will probably do more harm than good.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046945#Comment_4046945
200 hours killer can hardly get 2000 hours survivor if that survvior is solid to his hours played and didnt spend 1800+ hours hiding in the corner, what you set as comparison exsample is just putting seasoned joe who playes this game for many years (like 3-4) against baby wraith. Not to mention if that killer would get him than all gens would ne almost done or just done by that time and its clear win for survivors.
In your theory maybe 200 hours just purely on blight or nurse can work into win but we are talking here about top tier killers and still I will argue that 2k hour survivor will have enough experience and skill to loop them for long time so others can do multiple gens fast.
Oh sure, they'll get the gens done, but the survivor wincon is currently a personal escape, so that doesn't do the dead survivor much good. The fact that a low-hour killer can get boosted to higher MMR with experienced players very quickly with little to no gamesense or skill is a problem.
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Bhvr said once that they hate people showing off stats and invalidating eachother
Then they shouldn't have made the stat page, which they keep updating and promoting.
Wierdly enough, no one has come out to show their stats (atleast from what i have seen).
People drop their stats pretty much daily here, particularly to invalidate those who complain about soloq. Ironically, survivor stats are inflated on the stat page, and even people who know that still do it.
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I don't know why tthey'd remove the post, but I can guess a few reasons they wouldn't want it visible.
This community is already obsessed with throwing MMR around as a way to insult others and boost themsleves. Some of these people might get a humbling if it became visible, but the ones that don't will be unbearable, using it to reduce everyone below them with even more assuredness. It will be treated more like a caste system than it already is.
Aside from argument issues, you could also intentionally throw matches to keep your MMR right below a certain threshold so your matches stay easier, which isn't super healthy for the game. Intentional manipulation is probably the bigger issue. I'm sure plenty of people already do this, but it would get worse.
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The killer is too far for the first option so I simply wait the last moment to trade
This can't always be done without coordination. I've see many ranged killers—Deathslingers, iri-hatchet Huntresses, and Houndmasters, in particular--who will stand right outside the range and wait with their weapon ready. You try to trade, get hit/downed, and the hooked person goes second/dies. The coordination needed to unhook them is hard to manage in soloq. The same problem exists with slugging multiple people. Even in a party, whole-team slugs happen. It's particularly hard to counter with certain aura read perks.
How is it the killer that is blamed and not the survivors?
Because the killer is making the choice to do the thing, just like a killer will blame survivors if all of them brought gen perks and Commodious toolboxes and gens got done in three minutes. Difference is, I've never actually seen that happen, yet I see tunneling, camping, and slugging every time I play survivor.
And because a 200 hour killler can tunnel out a 2000 hour survivor. The skill it takes to tunnel is generally low against most players. The skill it takes to counter it can be pretty higher depending on the killer and the person playing them.
Also, this isn't a survivor vs killer issue. Plenty of killer-players are against these tactics.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046106#Comment_4046106
having empathy and not taking the game too seriously doesnt mean you should look down on people that play the game differently to how you think it should be played. As previously stated, i understand people play differently to how i play regardless if i agree or even like how they play, my attitude is if it works then good on them. your style of play works for you, good on you, im happy your happy with how you do things, thats what its all about, playing in a way that matches our own playstyle. You on the other hand seem to look down on anyone that plays in a way the goes against your made up rulebook. You dont seem to like it, you dont seem to be happy that others are enjoying the game. i could be wrong but thats how you come across.
You claim you have empathy but that empathy is very narrow. your empathy is based on you would feel, how your moral compass aligns. You use this "empathy" to refuse to tunnel because you dont think people should do it, you think it would make them feel awful, yet you dont have empathy for anyone that might go against your beliefs. such as friendly killer? letting someone go? targeting a player just because they havnt been running up to the killers face to try take chase so you havnt seen them? leaving an afk person alone and targeting someone else that might have a challenge to do? looping a killer for 3 or 4 gens? there is no empathy for any of these people, you dont care if they are having fun or not. So your empathy seems to only swing one way, the way you think things should be done.
you say you dont take the game seriously yet your constantly talking about player growth and people winning using a tactic you disagree with…sounds very much like you do take it seriously to even care about player growth and getting better at the game. Someone that doesnt take the game seriously genuinly would care one way or the other if they die, how they die, how people win and certainly wouldnt care about player growth
as for survivor quitting, the numbers dont reflect this, player count is still up and seems to be pretty stable for the past couple years. makes no sense to risk killing off the killer playerbase when the number are still up. if the numbers dropped significantly then there would be a call for changes to get players back but as it stands people are still playing the game so it makes no sense to take such a big risk. i have always said if people are not happy with the state of the game, the best thing to do is stop playing and state why you stopped playing but complaining and still playing the game wont lead to major changes….tweaks here and there yes but not major changes that could kill off an entire role of the game.
I don't know if someone who's proudly anti-empathy needs to be lecturing anyone about the concept. An attempt at morals is better than anti-morals.
As previously stated, I understand people play differently to how i play regardless if i agree or even like how they play, my attitude is if it works then good on them
Easy to say this when you're tunneling or letting your teammates die on purpose. This is like saying "I understand some people are considerate of others even if I'm not." Your method as survivor only works because your teammates don't expect that behavior. If they were all just as devious your matches would be very different.
you say you dont take the game seriously yet your constantly talking about player growth and people winning using a tactic you disagree with…sounds very much like you do take it seriously to even care about player growth and getting better at the game.
I play this game every day so it's logical to try to improve. Otherwise what am I even doing? There's no point in engaging with something this much if I'm just gonna stand around and lose and never change.
But I'm talking more about the ego-driven players who want to feel like their the best players ever by winning a lot yet refusing to learn and cling to anything but the games cheapest tactic. It's not a desire to improve or be skilled, it's a desire to win and convince themselves they're skilled and feed what must be a horribly fragile ego. What's the point of winning by hooking an AFK until they die? What sort of victory is that? All that is is hollow stat padding.
Happy with my own matches as killer, yes, because I don't blame perks or players for my failures. I blame myself (and sometimes the map, a little, but mostly me.) As survivor, mostly happy as well, but there are still those matches where a low skill killer camps multiple people into second stage or slugs everyone after getting no hooks all match. You shouldn't be able to win by doing basically nothing, even when you were terribly outplayed.
your empathy is based on you would feel, how your moral compass aligns.
I like that you say this like these are my views exclusively but you also are constantly seeing and engaging with people who feel the same way. Anti-tunnel and anti-rat are two of the most common complaints. That corny rulebook joke is a thing for a reason--many people adhere to it.
i have always said if people are not happy with the state of the game, the best thing to do is stop playing and state why you stopped playing
People do this all the time here. I'm sure they do it elsewhere as well. Currently it's the loudest (though not largest) mass that gets listened, which is a cowardly reaction. Most players also aren't engaging with the community. If they quit they'll just quietly walk away. And advocating for people leaving is anti-problem-solving. If you wait until that many people leave you're already screwed. You should fix a problem while people still want your product.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046103#Comment_4046103
This doesn't apply to everyone, but the loudest voices seem to also have a gigantic amount of ego invested in this game.
For some people, the foundation of game balance conversations starts with the "fact" that they are the second best player in the universe (the content creator they worship is obviously better).
Because if you start with the assumption that "I am a god at this game", yet find yourself struggling, then the only conclusion that allows both of those things to be true at the same time is that the game itself has to be broken. Massively broken, despite the data and evidence saying otherwise.
And we see this a lot on the forums: the first time someone struggles, or entity forbid, loses a match, they come here and complain about the usual suspects:
"SWF is broken and needs a nerf." (Because they're obviously max MMR and that's all the game is giving them, despite their last match being 4 randoms who are simply better at the game than they are).
"You have to tunnel to win/have a chance." (Because that's what their content creator idol says, and how comp dbd is played, and they're clearly at that level. Yet it's also the only tactic that they understand and can execute with any consistency, and also boosts them to a higher MMR than they can actually handle. But if you truly believe that you're the second best player ever, then even considering that you're boosted by simple tactics is insulting, which is what we tend to see here.)
Gen speeds are too fast / 2-3 gens are done in my first chase. (Because there's zero room in their mind that they could improve in any way, they're gods at DbD, remember? It wasn't that it took them 60+ seconds to find the first survivor, or that they dropped chase to kick a gen at 8%, no no. Those options are off the table because they start with the premise that they're the best. The game must be broken, nerf gen speeds.)
"SWF is broken and needs a nerf." (Because they're obviously max MMR and that's all the game is giving them, despite their last match being 4 randoms who are simply better at the game than they are).
Funny thing about this, I've watched people load and dodge over and over in my lobbies so that I know for a fact that they were solo and they body blocked and coordinated so perfectly that anyone would have thought they were a 4man. The SWF argument is so silly, as though you become amazing by having friends. Some players are actually just good.
But if you truly believe that you're the second best player ever, then even considering that you're boosted by simple tactics is insulting, which is what we tend to see here.
I don't think they truly believe it, that just want to feel dominant and important and they dont care how they get there. Pure ego feeding.
It wasn't that it took them 60+ seconds to find the first survivor, or that they dropped chase to kick a gen at 8%, no no.
I often go back and look at the times on matches where a killer DCs after one chase and losing 3 gens and its always like 2+ minutes. Usually little to no gen perks or toolboxes, just overcommitment on the killers part, abd not realizing how long 90s actually is.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046016#Comment_4046016
a player that maintains a "moral high ground" and looks down on people that play differently to how they think they should play.
i think the killer playerbase spoke for themselves when they flat out said if the ptb changes went through they would quit the game…that wasnt an idle threat, that was a warning, dont do it or you lose your players.
i minority in both roles? so tunneling as a tactic is a minority? yet plenty claim it happens almost every match to the point they claim its unplayable and getting frustrating, doesnt add up, either its a common case which means my killer playstyle in particular isnt in the minority or it doesnt happen that often and all these people complaining about it being so frequent making the game miserable is just wrong.
Like i said its a good job dbd isnt ran by you, you would take the risk of killing the game thinking people are just threatening to leave, they wont really do it….and when they do….dead game. bhvr luckily has not taken that gamble because its a bad gamble to take lol. makes no sense to kill off the entire killer role to appease a few survivors that slightly unhappy but not unhappy enough to stop playing
Oh, you mean people with empathy who don't take games that seriously? Got it.
Who is the killer playerbase? Plenty of killer players weren't dooming and glooming about the changes. The other people were just louder.
I dont know whats happening other people's matches but I've never said hard tunneling is in every match. It is a minority. The issue isnt it's frequency, it's how much you can suck, how inexperienced you can be against someone with 10x the hours, and still get kills or win. It encourages people to stay stuck with an obnoxious tactic instead of learning macro. It's a detriment to player growth and the game's growth.
Maybe you recall there was an excessive stink about a survey. It was survivor-sided for a reason. It's likely survivors who are quiting in a slow trickle instead of some dramatic mass exodus that won't happen.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045978#Comment_4045978
It would be the best thing to happen to the game.
The one caveat to anti tunnel that isn't actually hard, but they would need to do a soft MMR reset if they ever decide to actually do anything.
But genuinely, this one issue being meaningfully addressed for the first time ever would fix a lot.
Killers, despite their angry and loud insistence otherwise, would actually adapt to other play styles and actually try other strategies for once. And, assuming they MMR reset, it wouldn't drastically lower kill rates except for the few killers who might actually need help.
We can finally address the killers who need help individually.
And, most people who are dedicated to "tunnel life 4 ever" would realize that playing against opponents actually at your skill level means far less sweaty games, and you'll still kill about 60% of the survivors. You'll just not be constantly boosted at the maximum of your personal skill all the time (which isn't necessarily max MMR).
You can actually have chill games and demonstrate all of that skill, game sense, and game knowledge by getting away from "the first thing you try at 0 hours being the only strategy you ever need for the next 10,000 hours".
(Edit: forgot the best part: that when you actually give more than 1 survivor something to do they aren't on gens. So discovering map pressure would also reduce "gen rushing" by simply not leaving survivors alone and then being shocked that they are doing gens instead of totems and chests)
Unfortunately, BHVR appears to only make changes based on being loud, regardless of how good those changes would be for the game, or how wrong those people are that they think they can't adapt, but would actually be just fine in the long run.
So the devs will never actually fix this issue, no matter how beneficial it would actually be for the game.
Idk what it is about MMR and people assuming/needing to be in uppermost. God forbid you fall to your actual skill level. It's really not that serious. Like who cares about your MMR? But people really cling to it.
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I'm not sure why they'd even play the mode if they're that dependent on perks.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4046003#Comment_4046003
i always adapt, and usually in ways players like you wouldnt like lol. if there is a loop hole, i will find it. cant tunnel? slug. there are many ways of dealing with things, especially with the abandon feature being the way it is. when no loop holes exist, no options available then yes i would quit as would everyone else. SM is a perfect example, money being the hitter right there. the fact that you understand the killer isnt making the money so they are sidelined and not a top priority….you still think all killers would get balanced in a timely manner? nearly 10 years and trapper hasnt been touched. there will always be killers that wont make them money so there will always be killers side-lined which proves my point that bhvr can not succesfully balance each killer before people quit and the game dies. its a death sentence for the game.
Luckily this is another dream world and this scenario will never exist.
What is a player like me exactly?
when no loop holes exist, no options available then yes i would quit as would everyone else
Speak for yourself. Not everyone needs an exploitable system. The way you play is a minority in both roles, a severe minority for survivor.
you still think all killers would get balanced in a timely manner?
If they weren't sustaining a playerbse, yes, but I don't think nearly so many of these people who screech about quitting actually will. The ability of this community to cry wolf is off the charts.
And as for SM, it's probably also becsuse she was despised. You can be Ghoul and be despised cause you make money, but you can't be non-lucrative and despised.
Luckily this is another dream world and this scenario will never exist.
Two efforts to introduce anti tunnel, slug, and camp have even made. It's perfectly possible it may happen in the future. It's clearly on the radar.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045978#Comment_4045978
if kill rates drop there wont be killers left to play the game lol look how long it took bhvr to get the balance they wanted, nearly a decade. look how long it takes them to balance 1 killer like skull merchant…. you think they can balance all killers accordingly before people quit? not likely. its a good job your not heading the bhvr dev team thats all i can say lol you would kill the game in 24 hours
If you're that big of a baby about losing matches that you'd immediately quit then idk what to say. You could just maybe try to change your ways and adapt, like survivors have to do every time a new killer is released. Not everyone tunnels, not everyone would be affected. Tunneling will never be removed anyway, but doing it early-game needs to be deincentivized.
SM is a bad example. They'd be working on her if she was making them any money. She's low priority for a reason.
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I've had multiple p100 killers and have generally had the opposite experience. From what I recall, MMR is considered in matchmaking in special events but doesn't affect your existing MMR, like it won't go up or down. I'm assuming Chaos falls into that. I would guess there's also more speed-based matchmaking right now though, because of how events split the queues.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045970#Comment_4045970
its called pre-emptive strike, tunnel sooner rather than later, maybe because they know what will happen if they dont? you can say its a crutch but its no different than anything else someone relies on to win, be it perks, tactics, teams, maps even. Even if people have "crutched" on it for so long they dont know any other way to play, to change it now would probably mean so many people wouldnt know how to play…kill rates would likely drop…people would likely leave the game. I think its at the point where this is the game, people tunnel, people loop, people stealth, people camp, people slug, people body block. Taking the attitude of "if you cant maintain pressure in the timeframe thats given thats on you", people can say they same….if you cant counter tunneling then thats on you.
The point is the gen speed argument is garbage, which you are proving with all this. They do it regardless.
If KRs drop, killers can finally get needed adjustments, since the stats are probably horribly inflated by tunneling. It would be the best thing to happen to the game. If people in this community can't handle changes that improve the game overall then they can fly free.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045769#Comment_4045769
This says to me that the base gen speed is too fast, when survivors dont have anything to boost gen speeds and killers dont have anything to slow gens down its pretty much all on basekit terms, so if killers still feel they need to tunnel it says a lot about the need for slowing down gens.
They're doing it without gens even getting done. It's automatic. Some people have crutched on this so hard for so long they don't know any other way to play. And 90s is an eternity. If you can't maintain pressure with those long times that's on you.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045769#Comment_4045769
Yeah explain it to these megheads and sables that go from hook to bodyblock me when Im going for other survivor and than have pikachu face when I go for them after i hit them and scream he is tunneling, I love this hypocrisy.
Not all situations are equal. No one is talking about people who ask for it. I double hook these as well.
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@Vtech said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045800#Comment_4045800
Oh you see i do.
Then I see survivor mains like yourself getting upset because they didn't escape, they got camped, and got mad.
Bubba doesn't need changes.
If your teammates are too dense not to realize unhooking in his face is a terrible idea then I'am sorry you and your team got what you deserved.
But hey if we are going to anyway…
Lets have Bubba Tantrum every time he Misses an M1.
If Bubba doesn't hit anyone with a saw swing he should also Tantrum.
If Bubba isn't in a chase without 1 minute he should Tantrum.
If Bubba doesn't kick a gen when near one, he should Tantrum.
If a Gen gets Finished Bubba should Tantrum.
Let's just make him totally unplayable.
If someone goes into the basement, he Tantrums!
If someone does a chest he Tantrums.If someone Blinds him, he Tantrums.
IF someone wiggles free He Tantrums.Cool assumptions. You joined rhe forum like 5 minutes ago yet know I'm a survivor main and got camped by a Bubba and I'm mad. I'm not a main anything, and I'm not mad. If anything, I feel bad for hard camping killers. That's some pathetic skill-less garbage. How incapable are you at macro that you just stare at the hook?
Not sure how you can say someone "deserves" to be downed off hook when they have zero control over the unhook. Survivors are individual people, not some singular hive-mind mass, and most have no communication with each other. They can't tell their teammate not to unhook.
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Mine have been pretty dreadful, yeah. I might as well be perkless in most matches. Most of my opponenets have been lucky though. Had a Nurse land aura read and a Knight get DMS, Pain Res, Pop and Unforseen. Meanwhile I'm getting flashlight perks for the flashlight I'm not using lol
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@Vtech said:
No.
Just to all anti bubba camping suggestions in this thread no.
I am sorry you had a game where Bubba killed you, and camped you.
It's a video game.
Bubba's aren't rampant.
Bubba's aren't the most common killer to go against.
Bubba's aren't camping out every other dbd game that gets played.
Bubba doesn't need fixing.
You just need to realize it's not that deep, and you don't deserve to win every single game.This is a weird stream of logic. Take your own advice then. It's just a video game, so don't defend really broken tactics that let you circumvent protection mechanics and down right off hook, and that make other players miserable while also feeling unfair. Accept that you will also not win every match. Bubba players shouldn't get special passes because they play an unpopular character.
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This is why the crying about gen speeds is bs. You have a mode where survivors can't bring commodious toolboxes with meta add-ons or gen speed boosting perks and the camping and tunneling are still rampant. Nothing other players do will change these people. It's the game that needs to change.
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We didn't always agree and that's cool because you were a reasonable and friendly forum member. Sad to see you go, and I hope the escalation system gets a massive reassessment.
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Dredge. There are only 3 add-ons I'll use.
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045067#Comment_4045067
This. Sable being the chosen survivor killed it for me. Its petty, but meh. I have the board game and the figures are pretty good if painted. Good enough for me. Should have been Trapper and Meg imo lol
Trapper and Dwight would have made the most sense to me, but Sable sells. That's the whole reason. The fact that it's plastic for that price is also a hard pass, even if my mains were the chosen ones.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045217#Comment_4045217
The same exact people that complain about gen speeds in this forum defend tunneling.
I am sure those people exist. As do people that complain about tunneling yet defend infinites. But you made the claim that “the same people who defend the killer strategies complain about the survivor ones” which is just not true as a whole. When you paint with broad strokes like this you won’t be able to have level conversations with people because everything gets reduced to tribalism.
Or you could just decide for yourself to have decent sportsmanship, or notice that people constantly complain about it and it's making the playerbase unhappy. Just because a thing is legal doesn't mean it's right.
We’re already back to opinions by “decent sportsmanship”. How is tunneling poor sportsmanship? Who decided that it’s unfair and being a poor sport to chase and attack someone who just got unhooked? The idea that you have to go after someone else in between hooking one guy is a completely arbitrary expectation set early in this game’s growth when players were bad and you could actually facecamp people to death or mori on first down with zero counterplay.
Also, who said anything about legality and rightness? You mentioned fair play, this is a term that mentions specifically playing by the rules of the game. Tunneling is not unfair like exploiting or something else would be, they are playing the game as designed without abuse or exploits, and the other side has counterplay.
And complaints alone should not be used to justify anything, people complain about everything. 2 years ago 1000 survivors were asked what killers (not playstyles, killer powers) they didn’t like to go against. And the conclusions as you can see were that there was an 87.3% chance at least one of the survivors in your lobby would not like going against the killer you picked. A lot of the community complains about Ghoul, for example. Does this mean I’m not a decent sport if I decide to pick ghoul and play a public match, because people online complain about the character?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEY438O6ToU
You are trying to force a completely arbitrary set of moral standards on the way people play dead by daylight. Spawncamping with a sniper rifle is really not comparable, it’s not like a survivor team against a tunneling killer has zero options (BHVR has added several mechanics already to assist you here) or that the killer is exploiting somehow. I think your point of view that people have to play the way you want them to play or that others complaining want them to play or they’re an #########, even if they’re not doing anything that is actually wrong, is the problem.
But you made the claim that “the same people who defend the killer strategies complain about the survivor ones” which is just not true as a whole.
It's obviously a broad statement. If you want to cling this desperately to semantics, show me where I said every single person who complains about gen speeds defends tunneling. We regularly have lengthy posts here where people give their reason for tunneling being gen speeds, so complaining about gen speeds and defending tunneling in the same sentence. It's not as though this isn't a weekly occurrence.
BHVR has added several mechanics already to assist you here
Do tell me what basekit, non-perk mechanics kick in for the 3 remaining survivors when a weak link is early tunneled, or all 4 players get slugged. There were going to be some comeback mechanics, but this community is terrified of change and will screech until every even minor effort gets shut down.
I think your point of view that people have to play the way you want them to play or that others complaining want them to play or they’re an #########, even if they’re not doing anything that is actually wrong, is the problem.
And I think people believing anything that isn't reportable is perfectly fine despite years of discontent and multiple efforts by BHVR to address it is the problem.
The notion that something is “unfair” should stem from what is fair play (playing within the rules and regulations of the game), not some arbitrary opinion of what your opponents like and dislike.
Fair as a concept is actually pretty arbitrary. Look up the definition of that word in multiple dictionaries. You'll find all sorts of vague, moral-based terms like "honorable", "justice", and "honest", or phrases like "treating someone in a way that is right and reasonable" or "without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage." Very subjective definitions. I'm not sure who would argue it's honorable to shove someone out of a match early.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045038#Comment_4045038
The same people who defend tunneling and slugging complain about genrushing. People only don't complain when they're the ones using the cheese. Rules for thee and not for me.
You are making a sweeping generalization that is not true.
Killers can tunnel and slug if they want, it is necessary at a high level. And “genrushing” is survivors doing their objective. If they bring perks and items to do it faster, good for them.
I also disagree with your notion that tunneling is not playing fair. The notion that something is “unfair” should stem from what is fair play (playing within the rules and regulations of the game), not some arbitrary opinion of what your opponents like and dislike.
The same exact people that complain about gen speeds in this forum defend tunneling.
A low-hour killer can successfully tunnel a survivor with 10x the hours. The games whole structure is currently unfair. Survivors are expected to have way more knowledge and skill. It's one thing for the killer to have more in-game power, it's another for low hour players to win against higher ones through only one single method because they wouldn't manage against them any other way.
The notion that something is “unfair” should stem from what is fair play (playing within the rules and regulations of the game), not some arbitrary opinion of what your opponents like and dislike.
Or you could just decide for yourself to have decent sportsmanship, or notice that people constantly complain about it and it's making the playerbase unhappy. Just because a thing is legal doesn't mean it's right. Most people also think spawn sniping is gross and skill-less, yet it's still within your ability to do it.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045166#Comment_4045166
well your not the only one that can make assumptions, you assume i do worse than i admit to so i can assume people lobby dodge for that reason.
i often do know when a 3 man is carrying me….because they are my tools to victory…then i walk out the victor. i often know because there is a pregame chat, they do say if they are swf and i use that for my gain. im just curious because you once said swf cant carry people and doesnt make an individual player better…yet you now say that a good team (2 or 3 strong players) can carry the 1 weaker player. Not always, but they can, especially if the killer is going for one of the others when last gen is done and the weaker player opens the gate. That weaker player won, walked out the gate all because the stronger ones were able to keep the killer occupied, that is being carried.
i already hit that mark your in as killer long ago. i turned to tunneling which allowed me to win. it only means you lose until it goes down if you impose your own restrictions on yourself and dont adapt to higher levels.
you assume i do worse than i admit
You kinda said it:
i often know because there is a pregame chat
People usually say nothing in pregame chat from what I've seen. Are you just interrogating everyone in every lobby?
yet you now say that a good team (2 or 3 strong players) can carry the 1 weaker player.
You can rat your way to a personal escape with any teammates. You're using other people, doing the exact ratting I said partymates don't do, and if they're dying while you manipulate your way to an escape, your team is losing.
i already hit that mark your in as killer long ago. i turned to tunneling which allowed me to win. it only means you lose until it goes down if you impose your own restrictions on yourself and dont adapt to higher levels.
I'd rather work on improving, thanks anyway. It's also a bit hard for me to believe you're in uppermost MMR as killer after seeing that Bubba match.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045152#Comment_4045152
because being on par mean the should win or lose…not just win because the other team memebers are better. if this is the case then people would win v a killer they are on par with and get higher mmr going against harder killers when they are not ready for that level due to winning off the backs of other members. It makes more sense that the weaker players have equal chance v a killer they are on par with which would mean they win some, they lose some. getting wins just because others are better than the killer is being carried by the team, they dont need to be better than the killer, they can still win….thats being carried.
People lobby dodge like crazy in soloq, partly because they want to find good team mates then can do the work for them so they get easier wins.
They should win or lose, yes, but that's rarely how it goes. If the five are equal in skill the killer will more likely win.
I'm not saying they should win every time automatically, I'm saying four people shouldn't be required to all be better than one in order to win. Win doesn't mean 4e. It could be a 3e and the one who dies might be the on-par one. If I, myself, am on par with the killer, my better teammates won't carry me. It's going to be a 1v1 at some point. They might survive but I might die. If you have a 4man and everyone's in a different MMR bracket, and the game throws you a mid killer, those weaker players are still in danger. It's not like they just rat the whole match while the stronger players do everything. This isn't just a party thing either. There's duos and trios too. You don't know when a 3man is quietly carrying your soloing self to victory as well. I think it happens a lot more than people realize.
You also use your teammates as shields, so you're not really in a position to talk about being carried while you take zero aggro and let people die so you alone can escape. They're carrying you without knowing by you refusing to play as a teammate.
If you gain MMR you aren't ready for you'll be in the exact scenario I'm currently in as killer—you'll lose until it goes down. That's how it goes.
People lobby dodge like crazy in soloq, partly because they want to find good team mates then can do the work for them so they get easier wins
You seem to always know exactly why everyone does everything.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045064#Comment_4045064
Why should four people be
betterthan one to win? If two are better and two are on the same level they shouod also win. If all five are equal it should be anyone's game. It shouldn't be that the killer just wins unless every other player is more skilled than themThis comment says that if 2 survivors are better than the killer and 2 are on par with the killer then they should win…..so someone in SWF could be on par with the killer but they win due to their team mates being better? Would this not be a case of survivors using better team mates to carry them giving them wins?
This isnt about SWF, it applies to any survivor team, but if you're on par with the killer how is it carrying? It's only being carried if one great teammate somehow brings a team of people worse than the killer to victory, which is unlikely in this game unless the killer over commits, which means they weren't very knowledgeable to begin with.
Using is an interesting word choice, though it suits you well. Idk where one shops for friends in order to find superior teammates. Like, who is actively seeking that out? Most people play with people they like. I can bring up the opposite scenario, where I play with many people who are reckless and usually die and are thus detrimental to my ER.
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For killers I guess it's mostly fun or novelty, and a little bit mobility. I like Dracula and Vecna for the variety of abilities, and Dredge for its vibe. Wesker is solely IP love. He's not a killer I'd play if I wasn't a fan. Michael, I liked Tombstone Piece even though it was super unfair, and now I play Scratched Mirror, which is a hella funny. Clown because the bottles are fun and his theme music is one of my favorites. Plague cause she's hilarious.
I've pretty much stuck with the same survivor consistently, which is Felix. It was pretty much a random choice and now I'm attached. Other choices are mostly for memeing.
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Same problem with killer instinct, which can't be checked on the scoreboard. Now I wonder how many people think I'm cheating because I found them in a locker or bush and they just didn't understand how the killer worked.
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I would like to see a few things to help with this.
Whenever I decide to start playing a new killer, I always hop into a custom first to feel them out. Not only do I learn how to play them, but I get a better understanding of how to play against them. One match is really all it takes. If every survivor-player did this, it would only take a week to learn how every killer works. Problem is, many are locked behind shards and pay walls. Ideally, every killer should be unlocked in customs. I don't know if this is contractually possible with the IP ones but it is for the originals.
MMR needs ro account for more than just escapes and kills to be more technically accurate. Chase times, gen completion, heals, saves, body blocks, etc. Give people MMR gains for hatch escapes so they can't smurf in low MMR through ratting. There's way more to this game than two factors.
I'd also like to see better tips on the loading screen but, more so, I'd like survivor tutorials with each killer so you can properly learn the counters.
As the game is right now, a lot of killer wins seem to depend on 1) bad matchmaking and 2) survivor ignorance, as survivor is way more info-heavy but with no real in-game assistance. That's a pretty bad place to be if that's what maintains KRs.
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Maybe if it was characters I liked more I would. Gonna get the book on the seperate release for sure though.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4045038#Comment_4045038
When I said “used to” i mean that they expect you to play like a tryhard. Not necessarily win. If you are maintaining wins without tryharding this means you are better than the survivors overall. You may be worse compared to one or two or three of them, but this is a team game.
If the team has a weak link which causes the loss, then this is not a problem of tunneling, this is a skill/matchmaking issue. There are many different games in which a weak link alone can cost you the match and dead by daylight is not unique in this matter. Why shouldnt the survivors all have to be better than the killer?
If you want a 1v1 game, dbd is not it. Instead you can play ranked ladder where all they do is timed chases or a different 1v1 game altogether.
If you told me that tunneling is a problem because blight can return to the hook from 40 metres and then down the savior then immediately after tunnel the unhooked then i’d agree with you because that is truly unbalanced.
Your argument boils down to a weak link or lack of coordination which is in essence an issue of matchmaking and lack of comms for solo, on which I agree with you. Again not a problem of “cheese” strats. Also I defend both killer and survivor, check my first comment in this thread. i think that, outside of biased mains, many players also dont care, so your generalization is unnecessary.
Your argument boils down to a weak link or lack of coordination which is in essence an issue of matchmaking and lack of comms for solo, on which I agree with you.
Most games are poorly matched. If three survivors are good, one is bad, and the killer is average, the killer is likely to win. Matchmaking shouldn't be what maintains kill rates. The game is beyond broken if everything comes down to bad matchmaking and almost nothing comes down to skill.
Why shouldnt the survivors all have to be better than the killer?
Why should four people be better than one to win? If two are better and two are on the same level they shouod also win. If all five are equal it should be anyone's game. It shouldn't be that the killer just wins unless every other player is more skilled than them.
Also I defend both killer and survivor, check my first comment in this thread. i think that, outside of biased mains, many players also dont care, so your generalization is unnecessary.
Don't care about what? I don't know what you're referencing, nor did I call you a killer main or anything.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4044999#Comment_4044999
No specific killer needs to tunnel, slug, or camp.
This is your opinion. It's not a fact. The truth of 1v4 is that the killer has to exert pressure without being in 4 places at once. Add in the fact that survivors can last a long time in chase and camping is pretty much unavoidable. You can afford to not camp if you predict and find survivors with almost no downtime between chases. However even the best killers don't have wallhacks and realistically it is r impossible to predict exactly where a survivor is going to be 100% of the time without wallhacks. I have not met a killer like this so far both in and out of my gameplay. This would be considered cheating tbh. Even if you did have wallhacks on every survivor, if you dont have the means to down them quickly, you might still not chase them simply because it would lose you the game.
You might be holding yourself back from what you consider "cheese" strats, but those survivors that you are playing against did not get to their MMR level by only playing against "nice guy" trappers. They are used to playing against these "cheese" strats. If you want to hold yourself back because you don't mind losing a bit then that's your choice. But it is not "immature" to play the game to the best of one's ability and not complain about strats used. What is immature is losing a few times here and there and and ranting and getting toxic about it especially in the end game chat, but most people i think don't do that anyway, they just move on.
If you're good with a killer and put thousands of hours into learning everyrhing about them you shouldn't need to tunnel. You should want to be able to play fair and be good enough to win by having solid gamesense. That's the ultimate skill expression. Hard tunneling a weak link off-hook isn't. If this is the only way I can win where I'm at than I don't belong there and don't want to be there.
They are used to playing against these "cheese" strats.
Then it shouldn't work on them, should it? Yet it seems like a killer can be mediocre and still beat decent players with cheese, which isn't how it should work. I'm losing because all four people I'm playing against are now better than me (and by losing I mean I'm still limping to the 60%). It used to be that a couple might be very good, one decent, and one not great. I could still beat players much better than me, it's only if the whole team is great that I'm losing. The survivors shouldn't all have to utterly out class the killer in order to win, especially with the lack of cordination amongst many soloqers.
But it is not "immature" to play the game to the best of one's ability and not complain about strats used.
The same people who defend tunneling and slugging complain about genrushing. People only don't complain when they're the ones using the cheese. Rules for thee and not for me.
Anyway, I didn't say cheese strats were immature. It's not what you do, it's why you do it. If you alter your gameplay based on other people's actions like BMing or chat, you are just as immature as they are. If you can't handle losing and go off the rails regularly and slug everyone at 5gens because of it you are immature. Taking your anger out on randoms is a response fitting of a mental child.
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The two biggest excuses for this are MMR and certain killers need it.
I recently seemed to have shifted to a higher MMR bracket. Every match has been against skilled, cordinated meta players. There hasn't been a weak link or potato in sight. For the first time, I'm having sessions where I'm losing more than I'm winning. I'm not going to change how I play, I'm either going to play normal and loose until it goes back down or I'm going to sweat and try to improve. MMR isn't some trophy you should be scared or ashamed to loose, it's just your matchmaking bracket. If it's higher than it should be it needs to go down until you're good enough to increase it properly.
No specific killer needs to tunnel, slug, or camp. A good player can win without cheese with anyone. The only killer-players I play against who really impress me are the ones with such fantastic gamesense and prediction ability that they can 4k with zero cheese. A player with 10k+ hours that's still using cheese is an embarrassment. But developing gamesense and real skill is harder than making up excuses, I guess.
I think a big part of the issue is also that people refuse to be satisfied with a moderate win/loss ratio close to the target 60%—they want a 90% KR. Losing matches seems to be really hard for some people, which is a maturity issue to me.
Tbagging being a motivation to win at any cost is the most embarrassing reason you can give for playing like this and I dont know how people can even admit that. That's how an emotional child responds and is also a maturity issue.
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94.28% Felix. I mostly only use other characters when I'm out of add-ons.
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I've gone against very few blatant cheaters but I'm pretty sure my killer MMR recently went up and I'm seeing way more sus activates than I used to. I've had a lot of survivors suddenly speeding up mid-chse with either no exhaustion perks or no time for them to reset because they were running the whole time. I also seem to get someone with Shadow Step every time I play as Scratched Mirror Myers yet as soon as I switch killers there isn't a Shadow Step to be seen. Lots of instaheals with no medkits or healing perks too. So maybe this is partially a regional thing and partially an MMR thing, as people who cheat probably win, and winning will put you in a higher MMR bracket.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
Well there is always two sides of the coin. (Becareful rant)
On one hand, you could just close the chat. On the other… this should not be the solution. If the chat is abused for toxic behaviour it should be BHVR to implement punishments for the abuser.
This is one thing I don´t like from this community. The mentality of "Just look away or get tough skin." That is not a solution, that is just let us abuse the others as we please move on and we are all happy. That is disgusting to be friendly with my words.
The thing with Survivors leaving is another. Till today not a single soul could give me an argument why a Killer should not have the abbandon button if the gates are opend and all survivors are standing behind the gate or close in front of it. Funny enough it is the Survivor side which is crying and kicking really hard that the Killer should grow a pair and watch them bm while many of them are trying to justify an abbandon option if the Killer has a higher ping.
What would happen if the Killer gets the option to abbandon if all Survivors are in the safe zone? Well… Survivors would get the escape, what an horrible imagination.
I wouldn´t normally be pissed about this topic but I see this more and more in my games. Survivors willingly standing 10+ Minutes on the hatch waiting for the Killer to come close like… don´´t you have better things to do? In these 10 minutes you could have played nearly 2 games.
Trying to police everyone's words is pretty hard, and they can still be cruel even without breaking any rules. If other people's words are affecting you so much that it alters your gameplay or makes you want to quit, then you should stop engaging with those words. There's a point where an external solution isn't in sight so you need to do something yourself. Why keep involving yourself with something that makes you feel bad?
We don't need anymore abandon features, we need less. It's disengaging to be able to just leave when the game hasn't come to a proper conclusion. It's also screwing up personal stats for survivors. Let's not screw up killer ones too.
There's been plenty of other reasons, like challenges and adepts not counting, because of the lack of killer bots in place. Add the bots and fix the stats then fine, I guess, but it's still lame to just leave.
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I wish it felt like more was done about this. I'd much prefer an in-game PM system. The extra step would make people do this less. That's one reason people barely do it on console. That, and harsh punishments. But if you really are genuinely close to quitting over this then close the chat. Console players play without it and we all seem less tilted about the toxicity in the community.
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You say pallet density is thee thing that needs adjusting but most people complain about gen completion speeds. It's always going to be something.
The vast majority of survivors are likely soloqers or uncoordinated parties. The game shouldn't revolve around its tiny percentage of best players. And if matchmaking worked, those great survivors go against great killers. who should be able to work around pallets.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
Yeah… exactly what this community needs. A game where you torture others and desensitize to human emotions… with lots of lots of gore…
??? We're playing a horror game here. Are we supposed to cool down with Animal Crossing only?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4042898#Comment_4042898
again with your assumption, you do assume an awful lot but thats all they are, assumptions. Like i said, we all have our way playing…. im happy your way works for you. its unfortunate you come across like you are displeased with me actually enjoying the game instead of these doom and gloom players that complain about tunneling, camping, slugging, soloq in general. However, just like you, i wont change my play style because others dont like it or dont approve.
I assume a lot? I mostly just repeat what you've said. But the rules thing, you bring rules and laws up constantly, as though pushing them to their absolute limits absolves you of any moral shortcomings because dems da rules. Like, who announces every chance they get that they never break the rules when literally no one asked?
I told you, I enjoy the game too, I just don't do it at the expense of others. I feel bad for your teammates, who are the same soloqers complaining here. And I do my fair share of campaigning for beneficial survivor changes, just I did my fair share of fighting for the anti tunnel, slug, and camp. What did you do? Say some killlers have to tunnel and people should loop and stealth instead of wanting game improvements.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4042888#Comment_4042888
You and others might dread players like me but to the topic of the discussion….i have no empathy for either side including the random people i am matched with. The thing with these forums is that there are people that will agree and disagree…. thats normal. i expect there are others that agree with me and disagree with me. But facts remain…..i do what works for me, i enjoy my matches, have fun, i win and i break no rules in doing so. You dont have to like it, you dont have to do what i do, but you do have to accept it because its not going to change
You seemed bothered by me telling you people like you are why I don't like soloq, yet you have no trouble boasting that you have no empathy for others (like @Ryuhi said, weird flex), use teammates as tools, and run out the moment the gates open. If i'm in a match and someone jets immediately when it was totally unnecessary and the match is still ongoing, they get disdainful scoffs from everyone. Maybe you care, maybe you don't, but you are a part of the soloq problem.
And if someone brings up how much they follow the rules as much as you do, I'm inclined to think they either don't, or push them to their absolute limits. I wouldn't go around yelling to everyone how I'm a law-abiding citizen unless I was, in fact, not. But it's rather hard to report someone if you can't be sure they used you as bait or brought the killer to you on purpose.
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Oh look @runningguy, you're having the exact same argument we just had, right to the point of being told you're the teammate soloqers dread. How many people do you think you've had it with at this point? Is everyone else wrong about the nature of this game or are you?
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4042782#Comment_4042782
This is why empathy for your opponent matters, kneejerk kneecappings always lead to doubling down on the next thing, which is often even worse.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4042786#Comment_4042786
I only wish people responded better to the advice and encouragement they get, instead of seeking validation in their misery and finding reasons to dislike core aspects of the game. This often unfortunately leads to lumping good advice with being unsportsmanlike due to getting in one's own way, so to speak.
That said, well put, and that self reflectiont is a particularly important thing to understand about oneself: Being quick to anger or frustration for instance is perfectly fine to see in ourselves, and identifying those types of impulse reactions is the most important step to improving about how they affect your mindset. Not being willing to admit when one is contributing to a problem actively prevents them from being able to be part of a solution, and that goes double for internalization.
We all play differently, with different levels of intensity, and even conflicting objectives. We don't know what our opponent is expecting, so the default out of the gate action for many is to maximize the start of the game under the assumption that if their opponent does, it would generally be too late to recover. You can recognize those types of mindsets without even agreeing with them, so long as you keep your view of the game overall less focused on your personal experiences invalidating those of others.
This is true, and many don't want advice. Sometimes people just want to complain or commiserate. I do get pretty tired of the forum being spammed by people who just got hard tunneled by a Blight at 5 gens or dunked on by a comp 4man. I think this is just a weird place for that but the forum is rather loose on rules. If you have something worthwhile to say about the mechanics, or even a well thought out emotional take, then cool. But there are always these people (like some of our recent bans) who have a bad match or two then immediately come to the forum to blow off steam with zero-thoughts posts that belong more on a personal blog. It would be nice if people could reflect a bit more instead of knee-jerking. When you get hot, take a moment to cool before screaming into the internet void.For example, I had what might have been my worst session as killer last night, and a casual couple hours turned into an eight-hour manic episode on a work night with the sun coming up making me finally stop. That, and a 25-minute match that became essentially a 1v1 against probably the best survivor I've ever played against. But I didn't run to the forum to rage against perks or opponenents. I knew the whole time I wasn't in my right mind and they I also had no valid complaints, just a whole lot of unfiltered anger.
And to the other point, about everyone coming into a match with a different mindset, by the end of these matches, I was not acting like me. I wasn't letting anyone get the hatch, I wasn't swerving on recent unhooks, I wasn't being considerate of anyone's feelings. I played overly aggressive and I'm sure I made some people have a bad time. So even when someone is being nasty, it's not necessarily how they always are. They might just be having a bad run and are low on empathy. When people are treating me in what feels like a crappy way, I try to keep that in mind as well. The only thing I won't really excuse is unwarranted BMing.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4042794#Comment_4042794
Thats my point though WHY!? What makes DBD so special that someone can't sit for 4 minutes on the ground so they can die?
- How is that compared to say a game like Rust you spend hours upon hours doing stuff, and then get offline raided by a clan.
- Or a game like DotA where your teammate is feeding their carry and you are stuck in a completely unwinnable game for the next hour because something your teammate did?
- Or a game like Arc Raiders where someone tricks you into thinking they are friendly and then shoots you in the back?
Why does THIS community have such an emotional response to an opponent in a video game that spending a couple of minutes dealing with something unfun is like the end of the world to them.
You say its because they are more balanced, but like. Are they? Have you seen the win rate for the top heroes in DotA they can often have far higher win rates than a killer in DBD?
I haven't played those games nor am I involved in any other game community so idk what goes on there, but am I mistaken in understanding those are the kinds of games I mentioned, where the base roles are on fairly equal footing with fairly equal objectives? Like not just power-wise, but narrative-wise? Also, Arc Raiders is like two months old. That's not an equivalent comparsion to DbD's near decade of player baggage.You seem to want a simple answer to a psychological effect that's probably very layered. I'd imagine it partially has something to do with what personality types are drawn to this game, and even more so which ones choose to speak about it. Lots of people play it. Only some feel personally slighted and complain on the internet. We talk a lot about loud minorities here but that's what we all are simply by taking a game seriously enough to even care to discuss this.
I think one part of it is what you perceive your opponent is getting out of it. I've come across and spoken to people who genuinely want to make people suffer and feel awful and use the games mechanics to do that. They feel as though thier punishing them and they enjoy doing it. Just knowing that someone whose slugging you over and over for what appears to be kicks is going to heighten your own emotional response.
What makes DBD so special that someone can't sit for 4 minutes on the ground so they can die?
I mentioned being humped, not the lengthy time spent doing nothing. I'm just going to assume you're not defending the former option.
It's partially agency, partially respect. As someone who doesn't use the abandon, I'm still getting left on the ground a lot as survivor while the killer closes the hatch and break pallets. They don't care that I'm a real person and not a bot, they just care about getting a few more bloodpoints, at the expense of being decent to your opponent. This outward lack of respect is part of this game's toxicity. I don't linger at the exit gates until the timer is done and make the killler wait, and I don't leave people on the ground a second longer than needed to wrap up the match, but people do it constantly and that builds up the anger. Look how often people complain about tbagging at the gates. These things actually make this community hate each other.
The other half is the agency. There's no retaliation or comeback. I'm very much for anti-slug. I don't think slugging for the 4k should be a thing. However it comes about, cool, but players shouldn't have to taste the ground for however long thier opponent decides simply because they chose to.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/462288/a-general-lack-of-sympathy-from-ignorance
While thats true that people should play both sides, i still am always perplexed by the attitude of players of this game.
There is no other game i have ever played where i am supposed to "think about how my opponent emotionally feels about how i'm playing and adjust my playstyle to be 'nicer'"
If i'm playing street fighter, and i'm playing guile, and my opponent is zangief, you can bet i'm going to try and win by throwing 100+ fireballs while they try to get close to me. I'm not going to "empathize with my opponent about how boring that is and make the choice to NOT throw a fireball because that would be 'too mean'" Nor am i going to be the zangief player and expect my opponent to stop throwing fireballs. Nor am i going to get in close with him and start a throw loop and decide "maybe i'll just throw them twice instead of keep doing it because its mean"
It is very confusing to me that for some reason in this game and this game only i have to "think about my opponent and be nice"
Like, am i supposed to just play chess and see my opponent hung their queen and think "ah that would be too mean to take their queen for free, i'll be nice and not do that"
If a playstyle is inherently unfun for boring to play against, it is not up to the players to not play the style for fear of upsetting their opponents. It is on the developers of the game for allowing said style of play to exist, and perhaps, as in my street fighter example, it is actually designed intentionally to allow for that style of play, that could just be the answer. But you would never cry to the other player about it just because they did something "boring"
There is no other game i have ever played where i am supposed to "think about how my opponent emotionally feels about how i'm playing and adjust my playstyle to be 'nicer'"
This conversation is constant because the emotional response to this game is higher. Other pvps, like shooters and fighting games, have more balanced opponents. Skill levels might be different, but the goals and abilities are roughly the same. If a decent killer or good survivor team is pitted against a lacking opponent, they automatically control the feel of the match, and can potentially hold the game hostage to make the other miserable. I never experienced anything remotely like this when I was playing shooters, nor did I see in-game actions that show how unhappy someone is, like pallet slamming and AFKing under hook. I don't even remember DCing being a thing in those games. I've also never seen in-game BMing anything like this one. If you get tbagged in CoD it's over pretty fast. You can get humped for four minutes in this game, and then get graphically murdered afterwards. Which brings up the narrative difference. A psychopath torturing and murdering innocent people feels different than two people in a war shooting each other. It's really not comparable to the average pvp.
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In regards to the forum, one thing that's really not constructive is when people come here to lament, clearly bothered by some recent events, only to have someone tell them that said role is easy and they themsleves do just fine at it with zero effort. Bonus points if they drop their inflated stats. There's nothing worse than being unhappy and having someone tell you there's no problem. Give advice, give encouragement. Don't just say "KiLlEr/SuRvIvOr iS eZ mOdE."
In-game is a little trickier. I'm always a big advocate for empathy and compassion. The problem is, you don't know how your opponenet is feeling at any given time, and you don't know what we'll make it worse or better. Everyone is in a different headspace at any given moment, and everyone takes the game different levels of serious. Some people are prone to anger and frustration and others aren't. Some care more about the outcome, others, the journey. Almost everyone I know plays both roles, but how they feel about and react to those roles is different. I'm much more prone to anger as killer, and any outside effort to quell that anger will likely amplify it. Even a well-meaning gg will make it worse. If I knew what would make my opponents feel better about losses every time—pallet farming, goofing around, two-hooking, whatever—I would do it. But I don't know.
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I will always love Scene Partner. Long live fun.
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I've won probably 95% of my killer matches on this map. A few changes to the street haven't changed that.