ONSAN
ONSAN
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Taking things seriously is naturally important, and it is precisely when we engage earnestly that our deepest emotions are moved. Every feeling—joy, anger, sadness, and pleasure—holds value, and over time we learn how to face and process them.
At the same time, fully enjoying life requires reading the room—knowing when to be serious and when to let loose and go with the flow. If someone acts foolishly while everyone else is focused and taking a situation seriously, they will simply be seen as out of touch and ignored. The reverse is also true: being overly serious when everyone else is trying to relax and have fun can kill the mood just as easily. Finding this balance, too, is something we learn over time through experience.
I can certainly understand feeling that a match was great even if it ended in defeat. However, putting aside casual custom matches with friends, is there really anyone playing against unknown opponents who holds back just to read the room, actually wanting to lose from the very beginning? (Perhaps such people do exist, if they simply view it as a particular playstyle or just another way to enjoy the game.)
If losing is inevitable, I simply want to be a good loser rather than a bad one.
Since this is ultimately a difference in perspective, I hope you can understand that some people view things this way.
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No real change after testing it out. It probably won't affect players who can manage their Exhaustion throughout the match.
Players who can't manage their Exhaustion might see things differently once they learn how to.
I can't imagine how being able to manage your Exhaustion and use Sprint Burst whenever you want could ever be considered weak.
I think it's a fair balance change, as reducing the duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds means fewer situations where you can gain distance just by mindlessly using it.
On the other hand, in matches between 4 survivors who can't even loop properly and a killer who can't use their power effectively, I have no idea how they feel or what the outcome would be, so I can't say for sure if this was an essential adjustment.
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For those who thought the emblem system was completely scrapped, this is a huge change; for those who knew MMR was built on top of emblems all along, it’s business as usual.
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New players generally aren't an issue because as long as they have that enthusiasm, they'll naturally find their own way forward. Complaints only emerge when that enthusiasm fades—people face reality and voice dissatisfaction simply to bend the situation to their own convenience. Likes and dislikes are really that simple: people either like something (or someone) or they don't, and those who aren't interested in the first place won't even notice it.
I think it all comes down to maintaining a balance between players who are satisfied with the current state and those who aren't. If the developers cater too much to satisfied players, dissatisfied ones will leave even faster. Conversely, if they lean too heavily toward the dissatisfied ones, those who were previously content will start feeling frustrated and quit as well. Furthermore, if content players never had any complaints at all, it would be impossible to tell whether that was a good or a bad thing. People who are satisfied with the game are actually playing it—they don't go out of their way to leave feedback; their choice to play is their feedback. Adding unneeded changes to people who are satisfied with the status quo only makes them focus on the negative, which ultimately leads them to express their discontent.
Having played this game for years, I think the developers have a fantastic sense of balance. Whether it's intentional or not, they manage to keep just the right amount of friction in the game. That's because real progress comes from carefully examining those complaints and making meaningful improvements over time. Maybe it's because I've gotten older myself, but I feel it's better to walk at a slower pace alongside the elderly. By taking things slow, we might end up helping those who struggle to keep up with constant changes.
However, I recognize that this perspective will naturally draw complaints from players who love top-tier Killers, see no reason to play other Killers just for different power mechanics, and prefer taking the shortest route to enjoy the game easily while constantly seeking quick thrills as they hop from one game to the next.
Sorry if this doesn't make much sense.
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I'm long past the point of struggling while playing this game solo, so I don't see why a chat wheel is necessary. If it helps beginners who are having a hard time, though, it's a good thing
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I’m sorry, but since 2016, this game has been about competing for outcomes: escape or execution. Striving for mutually exclusive results is the very definition of competition. The standard 1v4 mode is fine as it is. Haven't community members already been competing on their own?
If you are going to introduce different modes, it should be a limited-time modifier mode—a 2026 version of 1v4.
What about things that couldn't be done over the past 10 years, or things you wanted to try? Tunneling? Camping? Slugging? Gen rushing? What else?
Add rules that impose restrictions to match the reasons people quit when they can't perform well, and build a mode around those who struggle. If it receives positive feedback, take that on board and bring it back a second or third time. Just don't forget why that mode was created in the first place: to support players who can't keep up.
Anyone who doesn't like it can just play the original 1v4 from 2016.
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I spent a lot of time thinking about how to put this and tried putting various thoughts into words, but I ultimately decided to keep it brief. I apologize if this misses the point of your question or makes no sense.
Even with the exact same system, the results change depending on whose perspective you use as the standard. And going forward, the results will differ depending on who is set as the benchmark when operating the system.
This conclusion comes purely from the fact that I personally don't feel there is any particular issue with the current MMR system.
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That's how the rules of the game work.
By setting caps on each category, it’s meant to curb one-dimensional playstyles and encourage balanced gameplay.
The following is just a question from someone with a different perspective who has only ever played this game solo.
If you were truly a skilled player who is great at looping, you’d be escaping consistently and raising your MMR.
The MMR system isn't about just a single match.
It becomes more accurate with every match you accumulate.
10 matches? 100 matches? 1,000 matches? 10,000 matches? If you consistently fail to escape while the other three teammates do, that proves you lack skill.
Once you reach a certain level of skill at looping, experienced Killers who know the game and understand their own capabilities won't even bother chasing you.
There are four Survivors; once a Killer finds and eliminates the weakest link, they can easily secure the advantage for the rest of the match.
And if they ignore you, you’ll naturally work on generators, unhook teammates, and heal them—and you'll even have to pull off plays to rescue your allies, like flashlight saves—because your ultimate goal is to escape.
If you’re not aiming to escape, what are you even doing?
Just wandering around?
Standing still?
Crouching in a corner?
Do you have no desire to escape?
Then do you just want to do something "fun"?
If so, go right ahead.
Don't aim to escape, don't touch generators, don't save your teammates when they're hooked, ignore injured allies, and just enjoy whatever "fun" thing you want to do.
A Killer who isn't trying to sacrifice anyone and is just enjoying their own version of "fun" will gladly play with you.
Someone who has no will or little desire to fight is simply a weak player.
That’s because the people actually competing are strong players who have the will and a high drive to fight.
Did you actually read this far? Thank you.
The MMR system is a mechanism that has the potential to make segregating players by playstyle possible.
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I won't know until I try it, but I don't think much will change. Maybe just how it's used will shift slightly. You can still manage fatigue and use it during chases just like before.
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The criteria for escape and execution must not be changed. There is no player who escapes without chasing, repairing generators, unhooking, and healing teammates. There is no player who executes without getting downs in chases, managing generators, and controlling the map. And that, in itself, is a declaration of the will to fight. Unfortunately, players without that will do not exist in my matches. Just because those around you have stopped playing, and there is no one close to your skill level, doesn’t mean the MMR system is to blame. You cannot bring non-existent people from your delusions into a match. The players you are looking for simply do not exist. Unless the system has intentionally shifted from matchmaking five players of similar skill to matchmaking into matches that could yield favorable outcomes for the five participants. Someone starting this game at the exact same convenient time as you would be nothing short of a miracle. That’s even more true for new players. This is strictly my own perception—that leaving a match feeling 'that was fun' whether playing as Killer or Survivor is a rare occurrence, and in most cases, the feeling is just 'Yes!'.
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Perfect for passing the time.
Take your time.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4098091#Comment_4098091
A completely unreasonable target considering even when hitting an all time high playercount were still nowhere near on track. If I tell you you can get a bonus by delivering a pizza in 30 seconds, it would be REASONABLE to assume autocorrect kicked in.
The process of chasing a goal becomes a valuable asset in itself. Even if we fall short, we can still celebrate each other's efforts and acknowledge the hard work.
That said, looking at the data, a peak in concurrent players doesn't mean we've seen an explosion of new users. To put it bluntly, it’s just lapsed players returning because of the 10th anniversary. By the time we launched the free-play period, it was already clear that attracting brand-new players would be difficult.
However, if we assume that these returning players won't just walk away again this time, reaching that goal might not be so impossible after all.
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We don't really need to change the numbers. They're just targets, after all.
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Since we have this opportunity, we can always reward them in different ways. It’s disappointing, but teaching them that there are some things they just can’t do is more important. After all, failing is never a bad experience.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096834#Comment_4096834
Rat isn't synonymous with bad, I don't think anyone claims that, and the description you gave is not of someone 'ratting' as far as I've experienced.
A rat is a survivor who relies on stealth to preserve their own escape at the expense of everyone else. Think like, only doing corner gens when it's absolutely safe, causing a late game 3 gen, hiding even when their entire team is on death hook instead of trying to take the killer's attention and prolong the match long enough for gens to be done, or playing for hatch even when the match is still ongoing and there's a chance for a 2-4 escape.It's just a difference in perception—you know, between a low-tier rat and a high-tier rat. So don't worry about it! Maybe some of the others got what I meant. Sorry, my English is just terrible.
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A 'rat' is a survivor who is better than you, someone you can't find or catch. In the first place, because they’re good at looping, they get the time and experience to naturally master everything else—like repairing, rescuing, and stealth. No one actually thinks 'rat' means a bad player... right?
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This is a very good adjustment that restores the lost fun and makes it easier and more rewarding. Those who are dissatisfied are just creepy people with delusional tendencies who cannot accept what they cannot do.
addition
There are some creepy people in the world who can't stand it unless things go exactly 100% the way they want.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4063502#Comment_4063502
I'm running it right now. It directly lead to my team winning in at least 3 of these games. Here's my games in the past couple of days
For context, the dracula game is the one i made the OP about:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FRSOLYH1G9LR/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1AKLHE5D3BFK/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QC0DSSC3J1M0/image.png
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4063508#Comment_4063508
But you know, in your fabricated scenario i'm a terrible killer main who just whines and doesn't actually understand the survivor experience.
Also i'll be willing to accept your apology anytime, but i know you'll never give it because you have some massive hatred of me for some reason.
*Hey, are you okay? I'm the one who put that label on you.
*Are you perhaps feeling unwell?
*Or are you just someone who has a habit of escaping reality?
*Oh, I'm so sorry, I've put a second label on you after "Crybaby Killer."
*Perhaps those I've known for a long time already know this?
*A warning to everyone: Please remember: Do not easily publish your own statistical data. If you do, you do so at your own risk.
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@ONSAN said:
*Perks are merely supportive, and supporting poor players won't make much difference.
*You're only dissatisfied because you're in the same place as a bunch of crybabies complaining about the tunnel.
@ONSAN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4063368#Comment_4063368
There is more than one role: survivor and killer. He's good at survivor He's crying as a killer.
But if you're a good survivor, you'll likely be a relatively good killer...
Maybe they're not even playing the game anymore.
Some people are just complaining.
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@ONSAN said:
*Perks are merely supportive, and supporting poor players won't make much difference.
*You're only dissatisfied because you're in the same place as a bunch of crybabies complaining about the tunnel.
There is more than one role: survivor and killer. He's good at survivor He's crying as a killer.
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*Perks are merely supportive, and supporting poor players won't make much difference.
*You're only dissatisfied because you're in the same place as a bunch of crybabies complaining about the tunnel.
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*When I started playing the game in 2018, I faced a lot of survivors who intentionally didn't run away. *It would be terrible if something like that happened in this day and age. *Your MMR would rise unnecessarily, and you'd feel even more miserable. *Increased durability can sometimes prevent unnecessary developments.
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Does everyone who has been playing baseball since they were 6 years old necessarily become a professional? No, they can't. That's all.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061480#Comment_4061480
But if they're pretty much the same, what's the incentive to choose one over the other? And what keeps the sweats out of the casual lobby? I don't think BP or anything like that will do it.
It's not appealing to people who don't have any particular complaints about tunneling, camping, slugging, generation rush, etc. To be honest, I don't actually see the point in separating ranked and casual modes. I just think that separating the modes like this might help people who drop out of the game early.
*Additional Notes
*Unfortunately, this game only has Escape and Execution . *Many inexperienced players have a hard time getting used to the game, causing frustration on both sides. *If the gameplay process is improved, more people will play this mode. *Players who want to compete and work hard can play in the regular 1v4 mode. *We currently use the MMR system, and if matchmaking is further improved, "unpleasant players who want to play against weak opponents" may be kicked out of the game. *I don't have a problem with unpleasant players being kicked out.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061283#Comment_4061283
The thing I always wonder when this comes up is, what would they be like? If the ranked mode looked like regular 1v4, what would the casual one look like, because it would have to be drastically different to appropriately split the playerbase into chills and sweats. I'd assume it would look like 2v8, with pre-built classes and remote hooking and whatnot, and I wonder how that would go, because I consider myself causal but a game that mostly plays itself is really unappealing to me. I'd be left not really want to play either mode. So as much as I like it as an abstract idea, I do wonder how the application would go.
* Standard 1v4 (ranked match) as before * 1v4 (casual match) with restrictions, but maintaining the normal 1v4 feel as much as possible on both the survivor and killer sides. * I'm used to tunneling, camping, and slugging generation rush, so I'm not sure. * Setting restrictions on these might be an option.
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@tjt85 said:
People said they wanted the quality of life initiative to focus on fixing bugs in the game.
I could be wrong, but by patching these unintended bugs, sorry "techs", isn't BHVR doing exactly what people asked them to do? He does have a pretty buggy power, to be fair.
Like those times where you run all the way through a pallet, dropping it behind you, only to somehow end up being slammed into the pallet you dropped anyway (maybe this is a ping difference issue and there's no easy way to fix it, but it still feels bad when it happens to you). Dude was ruining 2V8 games with his game breaking bugs for several iterations. Survivors get stuck inside bits of the environment after being thrown even now. I have no idea if BHVR have fixed these bugs in the PTB, but it's good that his power is being look at, no?
I guess BHVR just can't win sometimes…
As an old guy who has been playing the game alone, I know that "BEHAVIOUR" has always been there for the player.
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1. Have a large number of lockers installed. (This will be necessary in the future.) 2. Give survivor distortion, or use the Whisper perk instead of Survivor Aura Visibility as the killer's support. 1. The advantage of having fewer killers available is that you gain more match experience. 2. Players starting out will gain match experience in 1v4 matches with a low encounter rate. Will they really continue playing? (Worried about his grandchildren.) Older people have learned the game by accumulating match experience in an environment where they can face fewer killers (the number of killers has increased over the years). Both sides (killers and survivors) find it difficult to challenge older people. And it takes time to improve a survivor's skills. *And even if they do improve their skills, they quit the game because there is no reason to play. *This cycle repeats.* No matter how much time passes, people will continue to say that solo survivors are bad. I know that solo survivors don't have bad experiences. But I just can't keep playing for no reason. That's all. That's why 2v8 is better played casually. Both sides can play with friends. Don't get competitive, don't take the results too seriously, and just laugh it off. If you're bored and complaining, try 1v4, where you have a better chance of facing more killers. The real battle is the original 1v4 Dead by Daylight.
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Survivors are limited in what they can do. However, killers have a solution: the MMR system. If less experienced players play more fairly, they'll be matched with fair opponents. If they can't play fairly, it simply means they won't have any opponents. I hope players realize they're eliminating their natural opponents. Many killers also complain about the unfairness (even though they're the ones eliminating weaker survivors). Since many killers don't want to face strong survivors, it seems like a game for crybabies. The tunnel mitigation update, which was initially abandoned (though it later needed to be revised and improved), should have been implemented because it became a part of the culture for new players who started playing afterwards.
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*Yes, I'll play. *I might not be as good as other killers. *But that's okay. *I'll probably feel frustrated. *And I'll be happy if I can play a little better than before. *I cherish these feelings of frustration and joy. *There are two forces that motivate me:
※Regret and joy
*MMR system.
*What are Trickster's skills?
*Normal movement speed is not his skill.
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@Kitsune_King said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058822#Comment_4058822
right, unfortunately DBD's mmr system is not only borked even in normal play, 2v8 tends to make it even worse. that's what I've been trying to say
Is it broken? *No, it's not broken. *The reason why someone who keeps winning can't learn to lose is because there are no players with comparable skills. *The reason why someone who keeps losing can't learn to win is because there are no players with comparable skills. It's just highly likely.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058813#Comment_4058813
It's only an insult insofar as you dismissed his opinion by inferring him as lower skill. But I do agree people wanting inherently weaker opponents are indeed disgusting. I'd rather someone match out to my rank, but to his point as well I am a bit sick of being paired up with full P100 lobbies of twitchers spamming head-on flashbang through my ears while they teabag their way out the gate to the beat of West Side Story.
I don't want weaker enemies myself, I want equal skill, but I also want to face less pre-mades. I'm not a streamer or a killer-god over here, and the communication (used well) can make or break balancing rather severely.@Kitsune_King said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058813#Comment_4058813
I'm not trying to say that. I just would rather have a more even match up even if I lose than deal with a sweat fest that becomes even more frequent in normal queue during 2v8
Currently we use the MMR system. It's more important to teach players that they can learn the game even if they lose.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058787#Comment_4058787
Your departure from civility to replace discussion with an insult may charm you, but it doesn't counter-act the statement. I, too, have seen increased queue times and a wildly less stable MMR during 2v8. The same phenomenon was reported last year and before that, almost every time 2v8 is introduced. It's still being referenced in the other 2v8 thread, and has been cited a great many times.
Insulting people is neither necessary, nor conducive to a discussion. Skill level has nothing to do with queue times and MMR.If it's taken as an insult, that's fine. I think it's more disgusting to want to fight a weaker opponent when it's convenient for you.
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@Kitsune_King said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4058769#Comment_4058769
both those things are blatantly untrue.
Not only are queue times for Killer much longer as there's less people playing the 1v4 during the event period. But you're more likely to run into higher skill opponents due to the lower number of players in regular queue, turning the matches much much more sweaty.
Unfortunately, players with low skills may think so.
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I don't understand what you're talking about. If you don't like 2v8, just play 1v4. There are different game modes. The waiting time to start the match doesn't change, and the quality of the opponents doesn't change. If anything changes, then you're either special, or there are fewer people playing Dead by Daylight in your area than in my area. Note: Not everyone in the world plays Dead by Daylight.
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But there are people who have adapted and are enjoying the game.
This sentence must be at the end.
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Even in a 2-on-8 match, some might look like they're breaking a sweat in the face of a strong pair (they do exist) who camp and tunnel in the mid-range after a hook. *However, we don't know if the pair is friends. *It's possible that they're a highly competitive pair of solo killers.
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If you're talking about personal experience, when it comes to the time it takes for the character to start moving at the start of a match, the PS4 and Switch felt a little slow.
*This is just my personal experience and may not be accurate.
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Compared to the primitive age, strategies are now easily available on the Internet, and players who read textbooks are pure and innocent and do not have any doubts, so players who do not change continue to be born. Therefore, unless they are forced to change, it is difficult for change to occur.
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There was no novel excuse.
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If two or three people can defeat the killer, it's likely that the match was one in which the difference in skill between the survivors and the killer was large.
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**There are just a lot of people whining on the side of the killers.
*That's the way to know the answer.
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*It can't be helped. It's rare for everyone to play the same game. *Sometimes you play the killer. *Sometimes you play the survivor. *Sometimes you don't play the game at all. *Some people don't play the game anymore. *Don't get me wrong. Not everyone in this world is playing Dead by Daylight.
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*I'm an old guy, so some of my countrymen might not understand, but my advice is, "Just try it, then say something." *In summary, you should try using the M1 Killer before you say anything.
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*For those who plan to leave a comment in a month's time: To make the most of the "Shoulder The Burden" perk, survivors' "waiting to be rescued" plays an important role. To improve the accuracy of "waiting to be rescued," use "Empathy." *Please be aware that some rescuers may be careless, so please be especially careful and courteous when rescuing. *Stealth is also important. It's pointless if you're discovered first. This is also an opportunity to learn "stealth." *Even if you use "Shoulder The Burden," if you yourself are executed early, you will instantly become a burden to survivors. *Please fully understand this point. *This applies if the game you are playing has the concept of "waiting to be rescued."
*Please continue enjoying the game
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*It seems like you're asking for more efficient gameplay, but As efficiency increases, the game becomes more difficult. *I'm saying that solo survivors are miserable, so please understand that it will only get worse. *Increasing efficiency in the system will only force survivors to do things they couldn't do before, not improve their skills skills. *People who are crying will only cry louder if they face a killer who is more efficient than them.
*Solo and SWF should not be close to each other.
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4056481#Comment_4056481
I don't know what program you're using, but keep doing it! I love seeing passion about something (in this case, dbd) even when there are obstacles.
thank you.
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*Lowering the movement speed to 4.4m/s doesn't make much difference. *The most effective way to adjust the Killer is to adjust their unique abilities (including add-ons). *The game is simple. *Because the game is simple, player skill has simply a big impact. *The game feels complex because you've been playing it for a while. Veteran players have gained knowledge of the game over time and find it difficult. *Some players prefer stronger Killers, regardless of experience. *Lowering the movement speed to 4.4m/s will make it boring for many people. *Lowering the movement speed will make players who are already bad at using blight feel like they're just moving slower. *Good Nurse players walk a lot. * The proposed adjustments are worth testing. However, Current testing methods (PTB) cannot accurately evaluate the product. This is because there are people who over-advertise and people who believe in over-advertising. Testing methods need to be improved.
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*This game is simple.
*If it's simple, it's a task game.
*What is a task game?
*What tasks are included?
*There are tasks that inexperienced players will not know. *Individual ability is a factor.
*The speed and accuracy of various tasks are important.
*There is a possibility of inconsistencies in the timeline.
*When playing against an opponent who can perform tasks quickly and accurately, you may feel helpless if you are inferior to them in completing tasks.
*Additional Note
*If you base your task game on the best players, it becomes even more of a task game and loses its appeal.
*If it's not fun, it's not beneficial to anyone.
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*There is no rule that says you must destroy all pallets you knock down.
*It is up to the player to decide which pallets to destroy and how.