cogsturning
cogsturning
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I'm currently P100ing him on controller. This is where I'm sitting right now.
I haven't played on kbm so I can't compare but I do find some aspects kinda clunky. Hellfire is easier for kbm survivors to dodge because it's such a straight line, but if you time it with vaults it's perfectly effective on your end. The wolf pounce does occasionally feel a little like tank controls but I do better on a lower sensitivity on my main and refuse to change it every time I play someone else, so that probably could be corrected with adjustments.
His best features to me are the quick shape-shifts. The bats are also fine. These are not issues.
But overall he's a very strong killer and you'll be fine.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118973#Comment_4118973
>If you're anxiety over a video game is so bad that you can't handle any
aspect of it you shouldn't be playing but if you're okay with this
reasoning then tou must be okay with a new survivor who has special
basekit abilities that allow them to negate pretty much all killer
powers and perks because the survivor players who have anxiety can't
handle them.lets not move the goalpost these are your words
this exist in the form of endurance and judgement also has it when they teleport out of the exile
The goalpost wasn't moved. I said:
special basekit abilities that allow them to negate pretty much all killer powers and perks
Negate ALL. I don't mean for 10s. I mean for the match. Judgement shuts down sabos and shuts down dozens of hook based perks. So give me the survivor BASEKIT that allows me to keep a killer's whole build offline, as well as their add-ons. Because if I bring DS, DH, Deli, and Self-Preaeravtion along with a flashlight literally none of my things work for the entire match, and the killer still has perks on top of that basekit.
So please do tell me the survivior equivalent of that.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118952#Comment_4118952
Has someone here recently claimed that survivor is super easy to play with minimal experience? If they have, I haven’t seen it. If you want to point me to some recent comments like this I’ll be happy to ask.
Again, I'm not going to name people. Pretty sure that's against the rules. But it's a regular thing amongst the usual suspects. The forum killer mains will say survivor is too easy or braindead and that it plays itself, or that the game is super duper survivor sided, only to post their ridiculously high kill rates in another thread. Some have never posted any stats that I've seen, which kinda says more to me than anything. Some regular whiners turn out to simply be low hour players repeating what they've heard.
But the focus always seems to be on how killers feel, as though those players have more say in how the game should be. It's been a consistent narrative in the forum. Even the concept of killer anxiety is specific to one side and is constantly used as an excuse for things. It's a little different now because survivor is going through a giganerf but it'll be business as usual again soon.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118974#Comment_4118974
It was consistent. I am talking about, 5+ games of barely waiting a minute between them. Before I would get lobbies 5 minutes after, but I am talking about multiple instant 2v8 matches. It was like lobbying for 1v4 when it didn't have a lot of killer activity. If a lobby is freed due someone leaving, the next one should go in its place, which would still cause some wating, but given how fast it was, I don't think that's what's happening.
The only way I could see that being a bug would be if the majority of other killers are somehow unable to get into lobbies. I feel like there'd be mass complaints if that were happening. But the queues would be instant if they funneled survivors from another server. This is current:
These servers are nearish to each other and in similar time zones. Japan and China's survivors might be temporarily funneled into Australia. If someone playing in Australia had a bunch of high ping survivors right now then we'd know. But both these sets of numbers are outrageously disproportionate to the normal 40mins.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
The lobbies are bugged, I got a constant stream of instant 2v8 killer lobbies one after the other. I am still getting it since yesterday. Sometimes I wait 50 mins, but then I get a streak of free matches.
I don't think that's a bug. If you look at Dead by Queue periodically one random server will often have no queue for a few minutes. Maybe the servers are briefly booting people and restarting with fresh queues, or maybe they're funneling players to other servers to reduce the load briefly, but something is happening with the servers.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118948#Comment_4118948
that's the point of the endurance status effect you are immune to killer powes and perks and it's basekit
...for 10s. This killer who negates "killer anxiety" gets to do it the whole match by never allowing sabos and never activating hook-based perks.
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It does need something else, yeah. As is, this nerfed version would be too risky to bring into solo. I'd never bring a perk that someone else bringing it might randomly shut it down. It's only logical for SWF now, where you can pick the best candidate to run it. It's obvious that this nerf was meant for SWF but it's hurting it more for solo.
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I actually don't know who is bothered by the run-to-yellow crew. The survivors who give me trouble are certainly not running WoO. Maybe this is a problem for inexperienced killers? I don't know. StB is likely the only nerf the survivors I play against will feel but somehow I think they'll be fine.
But yeah, what you say about gens being the focus because everything else gets nerfed is true. When I would run SP I'd use it to get to a hook on the other side of the map unnoticed. With 15s cut it won't last that long anymore. So I'll just sit on my gen, and likely choose a meta perk instead. Nerfing these niche and non-meta perks is a stupid decision.
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I don't go a single killer session without a 4k at 5 gens. I'm convinced they feed experienced players bad ones on purpose here and there to life their egos.
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Of course. 1 person in 10 matches running newly reworked SP was always the reason they went back to the hook.
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@Emuchurin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118572#Comment_4118572
Does Judgement also have this where their power lingers near hook? I swore I saw this happen when I unhooked a teammate once. Basically they threw it straight at me and the unhooked, but it kind of stalled and disappeared. This has only happened once, and I'm unsure if it is a bug or maybe the Judgement just threw it from very far away? I'm nearing 100 hours on the game and I still don't know some interactions 😅. The Henry one is new to me as well…
I am all for things that help circumvent/discourage tunneling at 5 gens. That's the one tunneling that isn't understandable to me, and also the only tunneling that upsets me. It's why the people I tried to introduce to the game don't play anymore rip.
I remember trying it out with friends in the ptb and it didn't but it's possible it's been adjusted. I can't be sure as the few Judgments I had to deal with put a pause on my 1v4 survivor playing.
And yeah Henry's anti-camp lingers around the hook for a couple seconds after unhook. It's just delayed though, not a full stop. Jusdgments current anti-camp is a full stop.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118795#Comment_4118795
The end goal for me is trying to distinguish between who is here to have a good faith discussion about balance vs who is saying things that obviously aren’t true just to poke at the side they don’t like. People can decide if they want to share their stats to show how much they play both sides - I really don’t care. But I can respect the opinions of those like the ones you mention above because, even if I disagree with them, if I know they’re being sincere and they can back up what they say.
And I’m happy to share my stats any time. Just a casual player who hovers around the average on both sides. I’m certainly not consistently stomping survivor teams like some claim is so easy to do for anyone with just a few hours experience:unsafe:blob:https://forums.bhvr.com/b3d3af8c-f57b-43ba-bb90-71f1e023baf6
I'm curious why you don't seem to ask this of the killer hardliners of the form though. There are people here I could name that constantly do nothing but complain about the killer side and how strong survivor side. Why aren't they under equal scrutiny? I see a lot of people ask the "do you even play killer??" I get hit with it constantly, along with accusations that I pretend to play the role. But the opposite question seems rarely asked. Why does killer experience seem to out weigh survivor experience?
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118573#Comment_4118573
First match of the night and first one I've seen in AWHILE.
Part of the reason I started doing it is because others don't. It's not thought about.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117964#Comment_4117964
we already have that it's called endurance
You think 10s of basekit Engurance negates all killer powers and perks?
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@Angy_Quentin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118751#Comment_4118751
Oh same. Priority queue is working as intended. The balance between killers and survivors is so steep, that i regularily play up to three survivor matches for one killer match.
In short, one played survivor match does not guarantee one killer match, even when your queue timer shows that you should get a match right now.
This wasn't happening to me until just recently. The first days of this 2v8 I played one-and-one with a sliced queue on killer. If I have to play three survivor matches and wait the full 50 minutes then its not priority. It's just regular. If there's no benefit to helping with the queue I might as well just go do something else and wait the queue out.
@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118751#Comment_4118751
You can't trust the time remaining either, it's very unhelpful. I play survivor while I wait and get back in to a 30+ min queue time, but then match into a game immediately when I get up to use the bathroom or something. At this stage the time remaining isn't even an estimate, it's just vibes.
The count up has been bugged for me too. It doesn't even work half the time.
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@Angy_Quentin said:
The main issue of 2v8. Either you change your mindset and start playing casual survivor a LOT or you're gonna stay unhappy with the mode.
I'm not complaining about rhe absurd queue times, which are their own issue, I'm saying the priority feature isn't working. When I do one pwyw survivor match I usually just wait another minute or two and I'm in my killer match. The line gets cut about in half for people who help with the survivor line. That's why it's called "priority". But it's only been working some of the time for me this iteration.
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I don't understand why they're adding hook requirements to perks right now. It's yet another perk that won't activate against Judgment. But aside from that, as a key user I do like the idea of leaving my key behind for a medkit and running this with a hatch offering. I somewhat disagree about the SWF part though. If I bring a key, my teammates can take it if I die and use it, but if I run this they have no way to open the hatch. A 10% speed increase on gates is pretty mediocre for a SWF or a solo.
The aura nerf is garbage though, and it should also be Elusive instead.
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Yes, every survivor match, and that's exactly why: killer assumes it's shack and goes there. The difference is hatch at shack has an almost 100% consistent spawn point and hatch at main can vary, and the killer may come back and find it before you.
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I've had these Tricksters before. Depending on the hook location there's often nothing you can do. They just machine gun through your Endurance. Draculas do this same thing where they hold their hellfire and wait until the person's feet touch the ground and rip right through their Endurance while also injuring the unhooker.
The anti-camp on powers is way too inconsistent. Killers need their M2s turned off near hooks, and it needs to linger a couple seconds after. I think Henry is the only one with a linger and I don't know why. If there's going to be a system it needs to apply to everyone.
please explain how that is fun? I just don’t understand
These people only have fun through winning and they don't care how they get there.
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@Xray said:
Real talk, i almost quit dbd in 2025. It was because mmr and solo q makes playing beyond misreable. In dbd you cannot run any non meta build. If you do it feels like your throwing on purpose. And it still feels like this today. Another thing i want to bring up is the tribalism. The very pro survivor content creators and the very pro killer content creators arent helping matters much when it comes to me wanting to walk away from the game. It feels like watching two angry neighbors yelling and screaming at each other over a problem each side thinks the other caused, not realizing the real problem comes from the third neighbor BHVR. Stop screaming at each other over how the game sucks and start screaming at BHVR so the game gets better.
Sometimes i feel the urge to take a break now and then but now at least i have people to play which was not the case before. But solo q still sucks. I have no idea on how you fix it.
The CCs are like political pundits. They keep the peasants squabbling amongst each other so they don't look up at the kings. It's why I think they're the primary source of the community's problems. I wish people would stop listening to and engaging with them, but even people who recognize their influence on the game and how bad it is still watch them, raise their view counts, and keep them relevant.
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@Skillfulstone said:
I doubt they are, the Killer queue times wouldn't be so horrible if they were.
Around 30 minutes in 2v8.
Around 10 minutes in 1v4.
With unmarked bots, queue times wouldn't go past 5-7 minutes.
Honestly, as sad as it sounds, BHVR really shouldn't make any 2v8 quests Killer-exclusive, there's already enough Killers without adding the completionists that wouldn't bother with wasting half an hour for a ten-minutes (very generous estimate) match otherwise.
Although, if they don't go back on the WoO destruction, it's not unreasonable to assume a lot of Survivor players, mostly casuals, SoloQ players & newcomers, will play Survivor less. And unmarked bots in the future might not be too far-fetched if the numbers go too far in one direction.
I think they'd smatter them about here and there. It'd be too obvious if it was every match. Bot behavior can be obvious to people who pay attention.
Do people really care that much about Quests? I don't even really check them. I just play and they get done. Same with the Rift. It's so rare I do anything intentional for a Quest.
Funny thing is, if that's who dips that leaves the dreaded comm parties that killers hate. They're celebrating now but the easy snacks will leave and the sweats will be who remains.
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@chipsbone said:
I promise you, Lithe is next.
And probably after that, Kindred will be in killer CC's crosshairs. I can already see them saying that solo queue doesn't need it any more with the chat wheel update and it makes camping harder.
I'm gonna say Resurgence. It's a very good perk and that's illegal.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118456#Comment_4118456
That still doesn't mean survivors won't be able to perform well in-game. It just sounds like an excuse to pick on every nerf and claim it'll indirectly affect you because it may affect someone else. And when you say you don't use them, does that mean you were damaging your team by not using the meta perks when the others were in order to win? That's what you sound like.
I don't like or need theae perks and I do fine without them. People who ran SB/WoO/Vigil builds are generally low to mid level players. Some people do need crutch perks to help them. I don't expect them to put in thousands of hours, memorize maps, be addicted to this game and play every day like me. But this matchmaking sucks and those casual players who don't care that much get put with me if I play solo. If matchmaking worked I wouldn't be so concerned. But nerfing their comfort perks and asking them to just improve isn't gonna work.
Like look at 2v8. There appears to be zero matchmaking and every match it's the worst players ever. My last batch of matches looked like this:
Screenshot_20260917_004740.jpgAm I amazing? No. But many players are very, very bad, and these same potatoes are in 1v4.
And the 5s BT cut was already impactful enough to mostly make me drop solo. All this is just the cherry on top.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118427#Comment_4118427
Nobody used nerfed Pop, nerfed Brine, nerfed Overcharge or nerfed Ruin due how little they did. They've been buffed out of uselessness but still in weaker states that they were compared to before. Overcharge and Call of Brine can no longer be combined due Diminishing Returns, while DMS has had multiple nerfs and now can no longer be combined with Pain Res. Thrill is getting nerfed, which affects Ruin because those two were often combined together. Quad slowdown was mostly had Corrupt and DMS in the mix because the perks that affected gens themselves weren't all that useful. Just because you don't agree with them, that doesn't mean it was creator propaganda.
Shoulder the Burden was a mistake. Otzdarva created every aspect of the perk before its inception, from the name to the yellow hook counters, yet was added with none of the downsides because Behavior didn't have any foresight in the Houndmaster update. If the perk was useless as you claim, it wouldn't have been banned in tournaments. Do No Harm was the straw that broke the camel's back due it being another healing perk when the healing meta going very strong.
Pallet density was absolutely a survivor boost, and I don't know what world you're playing unless the every killer you match against was Nurse, but almost every killer felt pallet density update and became one of the biggest talking points of the game.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118426#Comment_4118426
"Most killer issues can be solved by simply picking another of the over 40 killers. Basically nothing effects all killers unless they change 3-vault window blocking or bloodlust. Survivor has no such luxury."
You're going to tell me that out of 150+ survivor perks in the game, you're out of options because Sprint Burst, Vigil and StB got nerfed? Mentioning bloodlust and 3-vault blocking also doesn't work. If these two mechanics were just outright removed, it would only affect the most bottom tier killers who literally cannot press M2 without sacrificing their chase like Trapper, Ghostface or Hag. They would got from bottom tier, to even more bottom. Pallet density was absolutely the most universal killer change of killer as of late and still affects a vast majority of the cast, including affecting Bloodlust too that you just talked about.
You're still not understanding. It's the echo effect. Survivors are a group. They fail together. What hurts the many hurts all. I don't use these perks but I will still be touched by these nerfs. And the 5s BT cut was massive. That was already enough to make me drastically reduce my survivor time. This next blow is just making it worse.
Many things have and will hurt me as survivor going forward. All that's personally happened to me as killer over tthe last year is I got a new A tier main and the best perk on him was recently buffed. Again, I have zero incentive in recent months to play survivor.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118431#Comment_4118431
I think this is the logical next step, sneaking in bots and attempting to pass them as RL player, survivor gameplay is dreadful nowadays, and coming changes, devs would need to pay me, so i play survivor
They've been accused of it before. A lot of people have seen default anon skins with globes that act like bots. I've seen some questionable ones in past 2v8s myself. And if it is a thing, bots are terrible and the killers will win more, which will boost their egos and keep them spending. It's a system that would work for a time.
I think it's quite possible that they make enough money without a lot of survivors participating. If you want a killer with a certain kit and they're licensed you have to buy them. You don't have to buy a single thing with real money to play survivor. You can get the perks from the shrine. Even with my minimal spending, 80-90% has been killer.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118022#Comment_4118022
I am not going to defend the logic of the person you replied too, since it makes no sense to me, a killer shouldn't be op just so that people don't have to fear killer anxiety. But Judgment being badly designed is entirely subjective, and I have seen a lot of people also say they enjoy going against Judgment.
I personally think she is very well designed, and quite interactive.
I don't personally find it very interactive to get sniped by a killer who is on the other side of the map. I also don't think it's acceptable to negate half the game. You can't sabo against this killer and a massive chunk of survivor perks are just turned off by the lack of hooks. If they change those perks to activation on hook states instead of physical hooks and they give a delay in banishment (similar to the remote hooking in 2v8) where saves are still possible then I'll accept this killer.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118245#Comment_4118245
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4JKWYHPDYBDE/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BMKLHH4BWHNR/image.png
Killer is much easier lately and it was easiest it has ever been for a long time… but survivior perks are keep getting nerfed.
I am personally waiting for 2v8 to end and I am going from 50/50 player to killer main.
Survivior experience just doesn't feel right lately, especially on solo queue.Yeah same. I'm playing both in 2v8 but after that this 50/50 crap can go to hell. I just hope the queues don't make the game unplayable, or they don't start sneaking unmarked bots in to help with the times, because it seems like an awful lot of people don't want to play survivor after this update and the previous recent changes and chapters.
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@Arcturus said:
Killer mains really are arguing that SP counters their info perks too much when there are a plethora of perks and addons that counter exhaustion perks, and lots of killers (especially Judgment) that do the same. Rules for thee and not for me.
"Rules for thee and not for me" is what this update should be called.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118248#Comment_4118248
I don't pretend Pain Res is bad but I don't think its the perfect gen regression perk either. It was the best through a process of elimination for the longest time because all others sucked. I don't need to write a wall on this, its not the point.
As for the nerfs you mentioned, that was during BHVR's health update where they threw spaghetti on floor and begin slipping on it everyday. Shoulder the Burden was added, pallet density was added during time, Syringes got removed instead of rebalanced, Healing was its strongest due Do No Harm's released which later caused diminishing returns, Myers got turned into dashslop, Krasue was a balance nightmare, the game was in its buggiest state ever. That was just a bad time for everyone.
Regardless, yes, survivor was more affected than killer in this update, but that wasn't always the case for previous ones, and the update tackled perks that were unhealthy for the game. Saying only survivor ever lost stuff as the game continued updated is just ignorance, specially since you just constantly said the stuff killer did lose wasn't a big deal because you didn't feel like it was, then you call me selective.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118250#Comment_4118250
He said he wouldn't want to play SoloQ due the recent perk nerfs, not me. Regardless, WoO isn't removed, just divided into two perks. Five Moves Ahead is still pretty good given it will show the closest five pallets with no distance limit until you drop the first one. By no means the perk is unusable, if you're having that much trouble, equip those two.
Yeah both sides lose things but right now is mostly what we're talking about, and it's not as though people have been talking about how great and blissful survivor has been before this.
But, again, killer changes have smaller effects. Nothing bad has happened to killer in a global way in a very long time. Killer has had new strong killers released one after another. You could argue pallet density but that's another killer-specific issue. Pallet density has never even made me flinch as killer because I'm not playing Ghostface. Most killer issues can be solved by simply picking another of the over 40 killers. Basically nothing effects all killers unless they change 3-vault window blocking or bloodlust. Survivor has no such luxury.
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@Rick1998 said:
There were just niche scenarios this perk was an issue . For exaple set up a match on lerys vs 4x self preservations. Basically you get giga punished for hooking because elusive just removes chasing on inddor maps or maps with many los breakers.
So there's a one in a million chance a perk might be very useful in this extremely unlikely scenario? Because I've never gone against four SPs. The chances of doing so and rolling Lery's are astronomical. This is an absurd reason to justify a nerf a low-picked niche perk.
I have, however, gone against a full team of Shadowstep, Iron Will, Lucky Break, and Distortion. It was a 4 out, so I guess all those perks need to get dumpstered too.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118214#Comment_4118214
i know we dont have official stats (recent ) from behavior and i know nightlite isnt the most reliable but i feel its safe to say that beginners and casuals arent using nitelight and updating their matches. but it has a 23% pick rate right now and last year it was as high as 35%.
What exactly are you basing this off of in regards to not being used as much?
We're talking about Self-Preservation, which has a 1.6% pick rate and a 35% ER on NL. Not sure how you ended up back on WoO.
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@Elan said:
People playing only survivors don't realize how underpowered killer role is. That's fine. Once they fix remaining survivor problematic perks more people may return to the game, hopefully.
How long would you like the killer queues to get with all these people returning? Because it sure isn't all the survivors who've quit that'll be coming back.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118230#Comment_4118230
Putting Sprint Burst Vigil on the weak link isn't going to make the weak link more skilled. If they suck, they suck. If Sprint Burst Vigil made a weak link survivor win the match then it was absolutely a crutch.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118232#Comment_4118232
I'll give you that, Jason and Judgement are bad design. Jason can at least be fixed with some nerfs to his Omnipresent Evil, but Judgement was a mistake from the get-go ever since they began shifting what people voted about her. Yes, I agree going against them currently suck.
But goddamn, StB and Vigil had to go. WoO was literally number #1 perk among everything else and used by everyone. But the game is in a comfortable position to do without those perks no matter how much into account you wanna put the bad teammates into the mix, because those will always exist.
And don't know how else I can put this point across because I have stated it many times already but killer did have negative meta shifts. Pain Res was popular for the longest time because due a lack of options. Pop was nerfed, Ruin got nerfed, Overbrine was nerfed, gen kick limit were still affecting all those other perks while hook protections were extended for a while. And that's not counting the 'Quality of Life' update of pallets that still affects multiple maps to this day. Survivors were eating good for a very long time.WoO was literally number #1 perk among everything else and used by everyone.
And so is Pain Res. Why does popularity get something nerfed? And if Pain Res was so terribly bad and nerfed it wouldn't be the unanimous winner. I run it too and it is good. People just pretend it isn't.
Survivors were eating good for a very long time.
Debatable. Medkit add-on nerfs, fog vials, fast track, cross examination, canceled anti-cheese, constant A tier killers. Survivor gets a lot of whacks. But I was personally eating good in both roles. Both are allowed to have toys. But there's no reason for me to spend time at the table whose plates are being taken away when I can just hang out at the buffet. There's more incentive now to play killer and less to play survivor. There's really no debating that. And no matter how much you may prefer a role I don't see how anyone can view that as good, especially when killer already has the long queues.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117817#Comment_4117817
You’re not regularly getting matched against killers on 500+ winstreaks. This is the same as the myth that killers go up against 4-man SWF comp squads every match.
I went against momo twice in less than two weeks during his nearly 2k Blight winstreak, both in soloq. It happens and it's not fun. Does not encourage one to play more, that's for sure.
I’m curious what killers you play and what your kill rate is.
This isn't directed at me but I'm going to respond anyway. I don't claim killer is easy per se, and it can be much more stressful, but it is getting more handholdy than survivor with these recent nerfs and the last couple killer releases. You can just equip the right perks and win on many killers. I can attribute a huge amount of my killer wins to perks and apparently that's fine for that role but not for the other. And just to be transparent, these are my recent numbers:
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118218#Comment_4118218
If you're thinking about never touching soloq again because the biggest crutches got nerfed and your teammates cannot handle the meta shift, it just makes it sound like you relied more on those perks than the people who actually used them.
You're missing the point entirely. If I play with randoms who crutch then I pay for their lacking. That's how soloq works. I can be an amazing survivor but if I get matched with people who can't function without these perks I just get to be the one who dies last. And why should survivors have to "handle the meta shift" while the killer meta goes untouched. Make the bias make sense. Killers are crutching too. I crutch hard on my killer meta perks.
And it's not just the perks. It's the imbalanced nature of the changes, it's the 5s basekit nerf that buffs tunneling, and it's the endless stream of horribly designed killers with overstuffed kits. It's mostly bad things for survivor and mostly good things for killer. So why should I play survivor? I'm begging you to give me a good reason to play nerfed survivor against Jasons and Judgments over playing an A tier killer with a fully intact meta build.
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Yeah this isn't going to change anything for me as killer. I'll still be playing my same A tiers, I'll still be using the same methods, and my perk builds will be untouched while I reap the rewards of survivor nerfs. On survivor, I'm just angry and my matches played will drop. The role is half my play time and it's losing it's appeal more and more with each new patch. I guess that's a shake up for me but maybe not the one they intended.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118064#Comment_4118064
Except hook timers cannot be lowered unlike time gen time with multiple perks and toolboxes, the only perk that could do that was an unpopular Scourge Hook perk, and now that's gone too. Gen damage upon kicking were increased because gen regression time is still incredibly slow, and during that time, perks like Overcharge, Call of Brine and Ruin were all nerfed to being bottom of the barrel, and despite these three perks getting buffs, only Ruin ended up being used recently because Jason and Judgement could abuse Thrill of the Hunt along with it, which Thrill is thankfully getting nerfed too.
And what survivor meta got damaged with this update? Sprint Burst Vigil Shoulder no longer being viable to stack on SWFs? Yeah, that was totally healthy for the game.You literally just mentioned the perk that does the thing after saying it can't be done.
SB, Vigil, Deli last update. WoO, Five Moves, StB, and Stake Out plus the basekit BT nerf. That is a massive amount of nerfs, and every survivor is affected by the basekit. Not so for killers. I'm completely unaffected by anything on the killer side aside from one of my favorite perks getting needlessly buffed, yet I'll benefit from all these survivor nerfs with no downside for me as killer. On the flip side, NtH and DMS are getting relatively minor nerfs and that's it. Nurse's is meta and that was buffed. Coul is not meta and was nerfed but so was SP. Thrill is a rework and it remains to be seen how it goes. Totems being repeatedly blocked from being cleansed isn't neccessarily going to be a nerf.
The problem is how unbalanced this is because of the game being assym. Survivors are effected by their teammates, not just themsleves, so if I solo (which I may never do again) I now have to deal with 3 other people with a nerf to basekit, plus them probably being meta perk enjoyers who will likely be worsened by the loss. Survivor nerfs have an echo effect; killers are solitary. If your killers and your perks weren't touched then you're completely fine, but every survivor will be touched. That's the biggest problem with the sledge hammer method.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118114#Comment_4118114
i do not have a problem with the existence of being able to remove temporarily things like aura, blood, breathing, scratchmarks. I have never stated otherwise. what i have stated in past discussion to you, is its a problem if its pushed to a degree that it becomes meta and something everyone uses. i see no reason how that would be fun long term for players. just as no doubt people would find running into anti loop builds/killers all the time wouldnt be much fun either or whatever specific tactic/build that people like to complain about for the time.
we complain about WOO getting nerfed because it impacts new players. (even though it is NOT just new players using the perk and its ridiculous people are trying to claim otherwise)
how does making it easier and easier to remove fundamentally designed mechanics of the game not function not impact new players?
But it's not meta and it's not being run that often. These stealth teams are borderline mythical. SP is off meta and getting nerfed and the stated reasoning isn't even logical since it will be keeping the same effect. Nerfing non-meta gimmicky perks and meta perks is dumb. It's like everything even hypothetically useful is getting nerfed on the survivor side.
I don't know who "we" is. I've never really used WoO, even as a baby, and I haven't said any such thing about it. I actually think it's a better perk for veterans playing solo because you never know what your team has used yet, plus RNG. But a new survivor is almost certainly not bamboozling a new killer with SP. It isn't really a baby league perk. It does take a little understanding of the game to utilize properly.
But new players will get duped by perks in general. That's how you learn. I'll give you the same argument again: how is a new player supposed to identify and counter a Secret Project build that "removes a fundamentally designed mechanic of the game." If Undectable through perks is fair, Elusive through perks is fair.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118094#Comment_4118094
i am also a stealth survivor, and i enjoy very much utilising stealth and such, its quite fun. but its not fun to deal with no tracking tools frequently and for long periods of time because again, 1. the game was not ever designed for you to track people based on that. thats just objectively the case. Would you enjoy the game as killer if there was no aura possibilities or scratch marks?
your eyes work when your looking at someone directly in your LOS. but every single map is filled to the brim with los breakers. i can just slap on lightweight and boom now you will never know where i am because the one tool your using to track me which was never intended to be the primary way to track people is no longer at your disposal. now i do that a couple times a match and waste your time and now you lost the game because you are just lacking the tools that the game is designed around in order to function properly.
if there is 3 gens and 3 different directions you can go to. you know whats helpful to even know where to go? auras and scratchmarks so you can get to playing the game.
i promise you that 99% of killers do not enjoy spending multiple minutes traversing the map not in chase because they cant find anyone because everyone is hiding or preventing the tools from working that allow chases to happen unless you stumble in to someone and even on incredibly proficient killers, they can get disoriented and confused the second a surv just appears to vanish in thin air.
large parts of chases have to operate without you having LOS. if i have to literally spend half the map to catch up to you in a straight line, how exactly am i going to be able to spend half the map keeping track of where your going when you can move left or right, move out of sight and there are 20 different directions you could have gone and i have no option but to make a guess.
you might not feel bothered by it when you run into it every once in a while. deal with it frequently or have multiple teams using it (where there are perks that completely remove the footsteps and breathing as well) and tell me how fun of an experience that would make killer?
furthermore, not everyone has the same level of hearing acuity, nor do they have good headsets. some people only have their tv speakers, some only have a 30 dollar walmart headset and some people dont have sharp hearing like myself. i hear ok, but i had lots of ear infections when younger and it dulled my hearing. the game ISNT precise with its sounds. cuz the game wasnt built like COD where such information is critical. you can also only hear footsteps within 8 meters.
How is that useful when a massive amount of chases will have a distance beyond 8 meters? if your within footstep range i probably already see you or your on the same tile, which has 3 different exits out of and if you choose an exit and are now 9 meters away, which exit you took is now a guess (educated guess sometimes but ALWAYS a guess)
and if im within footstep range, there is a good chance i have chase music going with some killers having more loud or obnoxious music. that music is extremely loud and overshadows all other audio in the game. i play with volume all the way up specificalkly so i can hear these subtler sound but that means that all other sounds are bombs in my ears though the chase music is the main issue.
if games were slower than they are and i could afford to play wheres waldo with survivors than sure, not as big of a deal. i dont have time to play wheres waldo, i need to find my chases or im going to tunnel out the person who i can actually engage the game with.
I've had matches where four people have run stealth perks. It's rare so it's fine. Why would I advocate for a thing I use as survivor if I had a problem with it on killer?
There are a ton of perks that remove or reduce tracking. You're saying the game wasn't meant for that but here's all these perks that do it. Is Undetectable unfair too? Like, the game was meant for certain killers to have a terror radius. How are are survivors supposed to know where the killer even is??? This logic is ridiculous. These perks spice up the games. Otherwise it's the same mindless crap every match, with killers running after colors like stupid dogs and survivors looping in circles around a rock. That's lame. It's boring. It's dictated playing.
I main a prediction killer. I have to be able to guess their likely moves and get hits through LoS breakers. Idk maybe some people have awful game sense, but most people are predictable. There are optimal pathing patterns in this game. Even seemingly unpredictable moves are often predictable. I'm asking people to think.
The equipment argument doesn't hold water. Some people have, some don't. That's life. Someone on a high end PC using kbm and a great headset will do better than me on console with an okay headset and a controller with stick drift. You can't equalize gaming in the modern world. That's why people pay more for better things. They want an advantage.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117708#Comment_4117708
behavior needs to completely redesign their sound engineering for the game as the game was not built to rely on breathing and footsteps, it was supposed to go along with the ACTUAL tracking methods. I have a pretty nice paid of headphones with an audio prgram tuned specifically for dead by daylight and there is so much other noise that even with my program utilising spatial sound, dbd does not do a good job at precise audio. and good luck if your killer is loud or you have chase music playing that you cant adjust the audio on. youve brought this up before, its not good reasoning and i dont know why you keep falling back on that
Because those elements exist for a reason. It's a tool for you to utilize. My headset is just decent and has default settings. My game audio settings are also default—and I can still hear these things. It's one of the reasons CE gave me no issues pre-nerf. I could literally hear their footsteps.
It's like if killers don't have a neon sign pointing to the survivor they feel cheated. You can also just think and use your eyes. I'm a stealth survivor. I know how they think. It's gamesense. I run 1-2 aura perks and an aura add-on on all my killers and Elusive is a non-issue for me. There should be counters to mindless things, and the killer should have to have some thoughts of their own.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117883#Comment_4117883
The way I use Self Preservation is to benefit the team as well as myself. Usually I am the only person running the perk when I do - and at least I know for sure I have not been spotted with an aura perk when someone is hooked, allowing me to stealth for the unhook or do some other support action. The killer might also have to use their brain a bit with something like Friends Til The End or -shock horror- be denied their perk value for once.
Exactly, and the perk is in such a good place to be a team perk with the Elusive off hook. Both players can disappear from the hook. And if killers returning to hook is a problem—as the wording implies—well then they get punished for it by there being no sign of anyone. With 15s it's solely good for ratting because the duration is too short to do anything meaningful. Like if the complaint is that it's selfish is just got even more selfish.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117821#Comment_4117821
Eruption was indirectly nerfed thanks to the gen kick limit, its no longer infinite like it was before. I don't even know why throw Bamboozle into the crossfire, its one of the easiest perks to counterplay against unless you willingly vaulted into a deadzone. Pop goes the Weasel and Ruin were nerfed and useless for the longest time and only recently they were buffed but still in weaker states when compared to before.
Killer has had various direct and indirect nerfs overtime from basekit things like the gen kick limit, increased hook timers or anti-camp. Now that some survivor stuff got hit, with most of those being perks that should have never been added to begin with, like Shoulder, begging to have Pain Res thrown into oblivion when that perk already has a chance to not even get value in some matches isn't going to help the state of the game, it would just throw balance back into the gutter once more. Even right now, some killer perks are being affected due the whole 'basic' and 'special' interactions for no reason.
And Aurora wasn't the only one who had their stuff rewritten. Judgement's beam, exile and even Mori were not what everyone voted for, the beam became a sky beam, the exile can no longer be affected by the Judgement, and the Mori is wrong, not having the target torn in half after being burnt.Bamboozle because this isn't about perk strength, it's about this person saying all the popular killer perks have received multiple nerfs which is simply not a true statement.
Okay you want to go back in time? There was a time you couldn't kick gens at all and could only damage through perks. Would you like to go back to that instead? Also, at the same time as the kick limit, regress through kicks went up from 2.5% to 5% and gen tapping was removed. Hook timers went up by 10s, yes, and so did gen times. The killer main memory is so very selective.
it would just throw balance back into the gutter once more
How? Killers are still going to run meta while survivor meta is getting dumpstered. It's not a shake up if it's just survivor getting nerfed in both perks and basekit while the killer meta remains almost fully intact plus gets cute new little updated perks to play with. But you know what I'll be running as killer on my A tier mains after this update? The same meta build I already do. You know what I'll be running as survivor if this goes through as is? Nothing, because I won't be playing it. More and more 50/50s are leaning towards killer because of how survivor just gets worse and worse. That is unhealthy for the game.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117847#Comment_4117847
In that day we were forced to look for survivors because we didn't have the tools to easily find them. It was a time before close range aura reading or killer instinct that lead to downs.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117859#Comment_4117859
When one plays killer what's more fun searching for hiding survivors or chasing survivors? I know I'd rather take the nastiest bully squad rather than a pack of coward Claudettes because with bullies at least the game is engaging. For this reason I can see why BHVR has developed a policy against longer term stealth plays.
But there is still room for shorter term stealth plays such as with Bite the Bullet or Quick & Quiet + Head On, spots where you can make the killer lose a chase or trick them into a stun. This is fun and engaging and should be encouraged.
But having one or more teammate(s) hide for a lot of the match and never get hooked while the rest of the team assumes all the risk and damage is something that should be discouraged. If people want to play Hide & Seek go play Prop Hunt or something, DbD is a chase game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117957#Comment_4117957
Uncounterable but very imperfect information and 5% haste while never in a chase for the cost of a whole perk slot? Seems like a fair trade to me. At least a perk slot occupied by Whispers is a perk slot not occupied by an aura or slowdown perk.
This person wants 15-20% haste instead. That's what I'm replying to.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117964#Comment_4117964
I love Judgment because she's quite hard to masater for chase. The fact that people run aura perks on her and just play passively isn't the issue of the killer. Long snipes are very reactable and you always count with nurses being in play and if that frustrates you you might as well pop on perks like place for us, shadowstep or object of obsession. :)
Cool but I didn't ask for advice and that has nothing to do with what you said. We're talking about the very important issue of video game anxiety, and if we're going to defend bad designs over it then it needs to go both ways. I suggest we have a survivor with basekit permaElusive. The idea that the killer can see my aura gives me such bad anxiety. And they might be following my scratch marks too. How anxiety-inducing! This survivor should also have baskeit 20% gen speed and door opening increase, because the longer I'm trapped in the match with this anxiety-inducing murderer the worse my anxiety gets! Also, the very idea of hanging off a meat hook gives me peak anxiety, so I think this survivor should also get basekit DS every time they're picked up. I think that's a good solution and if you don't have anxiety you can just play a normal survivor, i guess. It's not uncounterable either because if you manage to find and down this survivor you can just slug them. Fun, fair, and balanced!
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@Mandy said:
We don't give much information on how this impacts MMR as we don't want MMR to be the focus here. The player stats also will likely take some time to update as they're going through their own UI related things, given the way things are represented in the game and the Stats page doesn't take from in-game data but from the game's UI.
I believe the change in wording to Surrender definitely indicates that this is losing a match overall.
By stat page updating does that mean all the past abandons inflating personal ERs will be retroactively turned to deaths? Or is that just going forward and the stat page will always be inaccurate?
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@Elan said:
I'll defend Judgment because:
→ It's community killer, therfore being strong isn't an issue.
→ is exactly designed for people suffering killers anxiety (sabo builds, flashlight saves, pallet saves, window saves, antitunnel perks, perk off hook - dead hard, baby sitter, STB, Off The Record, Ressurgence…)
→ you don't have to suffer strong loops as your power goes through everything
IMO Judgment is fine and those who don't want to suffer enxiety can play her without torturing themselves. Fairs.
Just because you clicked on some boxes doesn't mean you get to win for free. The community who voted also included survivor players who are unhappy with this design.
If you're anxiety over a video game is so bad that you can't handle any aspect of it you shouldn't be playing but if you're okay with this reasoning then tou must be okay with a new survivor who has special basekit abilities that allow them to negate pretty much all killer powers and perks because the survivor players who have anxiety can't handle them.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117882#Comment_4117882
TBF I believe that 5 % is quite laughable value. And gladly people made threat about it. Personally I would like it being 15-20 % so no mobility killers gain more pressure and gap themselves more bewteen high mobility killers. If that happen we can expect balance with expectations that killers are able to traverse map in few seconds.
So free, uncounterable information and a massive speed boost that will still be used by A and S tier killers? Thats an awful lot of free value just for existing.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117836#Comment_4117836
At this point there is the question what playstyle Survivors should (or are allowed) to do. Stealth is obviously not wanted, considering they obliterated Distortion (mainly due to outcry) and nerf Self Preservation. Looping is also iffy, considering that structures get weaker and weaker over time and Killers just get stronger, with the classical looping Killer not really being played anymore (I mean, you barely hear Judgments Chase music for example since you get sniped while not even being in chase with her). But buffed Knockout makes playing weak Pallets impossible, since you either get hit or leave the Loop and get hit.
Doing Gens is also apparently not really wanted.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117854#Comment_4117854
True, but Killers also had to use some form of gamesense. Or were looking around Gens. Nowadays you just slap on Aura Read and know where to go, since outside of Lockers, there is not much against Aura Read. Plus most Killers have some form of Killer Instinct, which is uncounterable.
Remember during the anti-tunnel ptb when they cited player freedom of choice and it being too restrictive? Apparently that only goes one way. Killers can choose; survivors can die.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117429#Comment_4117429
I don't really subscribe to the idea that it's super survivor sided, mostly because killer macro is much easier in the mode than survivor.I agree, I think in part because 1v4 is more lopsided, something being roughly balanced seems survivor sided. Killers have a lot less games were they just smash the survivors compared to 1v4, but last time BHVR reported the kill rate numbers it still leaned killer. It's just there are a lot more matches with just a few kills, compared to 1v4 where if survivors win its a good chance all four get out.
It's also which version of killer are we talking about or averaging them together, because just like 1v4 there's a huge difference between randoms paired together instead of coordinated pairs, except its now on the killer side instead of survivor.
They want to do the 2v8 equivalent of 3 genning themselves by doing safe edge map gens.I've had lots of players running to the edge of the map for heals. Sometimes even medics and it's like 'we already would have had you healed back there, stop wasting time'.
I think one of the big issues, and would switch the balance of power of the game, is if more survivors understood the hook state economy. Zero hooks? Be aggressive, especially if others have been hooked. Two hooks? Play absurdly safe especially if no one else is on two hooks. Except people don't adjust enough, cautious players stay cautious the whole game, aggressive players get eliminated quickly leaving the team in trouble.
Killers have a lot less games were they just smash the survivors compared to 1v4, but last time BHVR reported the kill rate numbers it still leaned killer
I honestly believe the only thing keeping the kill rates from being sky high is inexperienced killers. I've had survivor matches where a killer overcommits and it's a throw. I had one where two bad killers tried to double team me only to give up after losing four gens. They ended up with 3 hooks. But when I queue with a random killer, as long as they're decent, we almost definitely win. I haven't played a ton yet but i think I'm sitting at about an 80% KR, and that would be higher if hatches weren't so plentiful. With 8 survivors on the map and matches being heavily solo it seems to be almost guaranteed that 1-3 of them will be the worst players you've ever seen. If the killers down them instantly then the spiral begins, just like 1v4.
Except people don't adjust enough, cautious players stay cautious the whole game, aggressive players get eliminated quickly leaving the team in trouble.
This is the macro issue, and the bad player issue. There are such a baffling amount of people playing 2v8 that don't seem to understand even the basics of the game. It's like the game is streaming for free and randoms can just jump in and try it out.
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@Wylesong said:
Has anyone noticed the play while you wait que fun bug? If you que as killer and play survivor you lose your spot as killer. The wait time as killer goes from around normally 25ish minutes to in my experience 45 minutes and this has happened everytime. If i want to play killer I cant play survivor and have to wait the long que time as killer so that may be why survivors are hard to find because you cant play as you wait.
I had something like this happen today. I queued for killer and waited about 5 minutes before begrudgingly queuing to lose as survivor. When I got back to killer queue I waited a bit because it usually just starts you when you complete your one match in the meat grinder, but it went well past the original time of 36 mins and the estimated one was stuck at 20. So I suffered through another survivor match and it worked, but the final wait was 50 minutes.
Super annoying, especially considering the amount of survivor I currently want to play is zero.
@bm33 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117446#Comment_4117446
Why would it get better? Overall survivor morale hasn't improved and the only thing added for survivors to play with is RNG based, not even guaranteed. Plus adding another killer is always going to make the killer queue worse.
#2 is something they've been really stubborn about addressing for too long. For a "survivor sided mode" the survivor side really doesn't get much to play with. It's kind of ridiculous they've added 12 killers (ontop of the original 5) and in that same time they only added 1 new survivor class and a random item. At the very least they should've been adding 1 new survivor class for every killer added.
#1 is rough because its a vicious circle. You can't have proper matchmaking if the players just aren't there. Need to find another way to increase the survivor players to have enough for matchmaking to work and not prioritize time. There have been plenty of posts about how to increase survivors fun in 2v8. Multiple iterations survivors have said 4 zombies aren't fun, they're boring and frustrating, and that all the aura reading is annoying. The need for more survivor classes not more killers. Changes need to be made to make survivor more enjoyable so players will want to load in as survivor, need to do that until there's enough players for matchmaking to have a chance.
I will say this iteration is feeling worse than last iteration as survivor. First 2 days weren't too bad but since Friday most of my survivor matches the killers know the cage spawns and are there as the rescue is happening or just after. I could blame teammate/match making but really it's just that tunneling is really strong, even in 2v8. The back and forth from previous iterations just isn't there this time which is making me sign off and play something else way sooner than I did previous iterations.
First 2 days weren't too bad but since Friday most of my survivor matches the killers know the cage spawns and are there as the rescue is happening or just after.
Aside from it being easy to guess the general spawns from where you and your teammate are, it's all the free aura read too. In my killer matches I keep seeing people running to cages, doing the uncage motion, and healing thin air. They make it too easy.