chieftaco
chieftaco
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@noneofyourbusiness said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/664934#Comment_664934
What if we assume that all players have skills at such a level that we are practically unable to improve them anymore, because they are close to perfection?
we would be totally wrong in making that assumption. we would be much closer to being accurate if we assumed all players have absolutely no skill.. just saying..
i'm at 5k hours in game right now and i still improve my game all of the time.. we can't assume people that have a few hundred or a few thousand hours in game have learned everything there is to know about a game that has no skill cap..
if players had learned even a little bit about the game there would be much higher escape statistics than there are, especially at lower ranks, but most people tend to play for the solo survival to ensure to themselves that they're "still the best"
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i'm not sure i understand what you mean..
some characters are stronger than others, sure, but ultimately they still take a good player controlling them and a combination of skill and luck to pull off..
i made this as a joke last night but i think it applies here. here is a truncated game where a nurse wanted to put me down.. she wasn't a new nurse, rank 8, full loadout, nice addons, no problem catching others..
i ran around a rock for 5 full minutes with no exhaustion perks, no crutch perks period, yet my team was of players lower ranked than myself and the killer still somehow had them all dead at the end (not included in clip but i do have evidence in my possession).
your killer and survivor experience depends on the people who get in your game and how they choose to play it out, much more than their particular skill levels, hours, or strengths of characters.
just because players have maxed out all of their perks and have played a lot is literally no indication of skill whatsoever, and most of them have absolutely no skill other than what you see in the thumbnail below. it's the nature of the game. all we can do is hope these people at some point motivate themselves to get better at the game..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faqq0JouzFM -
i like how everyone wants to, but nobody wants to be the first to do it..
why straw poll? why not discuss pros/cons?
personally i ALWAYS cleanse. i want plague to have red vomit and here's why:
with green vomit, she runs around infecting everything and everybody. the things become stinky and gross and will infect anything that comes in contact with whatever is infected.
if it's a person, they become broken and lose the ability to take a hit from the killer, making them completely useless. when they are downed and hung, they hang there infected, and i have to go rescue them, getting myself infected (stinky, noisy, visually easier to see, soon to be 1-hit down), and they are broken so i can't even get any altruism from them.. altruism (healing others) is 25% of my score.. without that i have to max all 3 other categories just to get a 75% score..
when people cleanse and give the plague red vomit, sure she has ranged attacks but you have to get hit twice. i'm not sure why people try to constantly run away from a killer with ranged attacks, but they do.. if they would invest a little time instead in learning the size of the object you need to loop around for her to not be able to hit them with the vomit when she tries, she would run out of red vomit before being able to down them..
when they do get downed by red vomit and they get hooked, after unhooking them i get to get altruism, and so do other teammates that are smart enough to come "get it while the getting is good..". i also don't automatically get infected, so after healing, the newly formed "group" of people who can all take 2 hits if needed can then work together on getting things done instead of having to focus so hard on hiding because they're broken.
remember if survivors are as good as they think they are, 8 hooks can take place in a match before anyone ever dies.. who cares if you get downed and put on a hook? the game is not a 1v1 game, even tho a lot of people like to pretend it is, which is why people are usually dead by the time a killer has 1-3 hooks in a game instead of closer to 8..
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@DWolfAlpha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/664770#Comment_664770
Okay. I accept your post. From now on, I'll disconnect to get into another match from now on. Man, such a great idea. Can't fathom why I hadn't thought of it in the first place.
/s
first things first, to be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, i never said anything about disconnecting from anything. i said you don't deserve a point multiplier or bonus just because you got boned in a game.
secondly, just kidding.. there's no secondly.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/664782#Comment_664782
And that perspective there is the biggest problem for survivors. This is a team game on survivor side. Why do you think they are trying bring solos up to swf knowledge levels.
Being selfish on survivor side is almost like working with the killer in the advantage it gives you.
Survivors complain about 'toxic' killers, and ruin and noed and bloodlust. Y'all are the biggest handicaps to yourselves that I've seen.
Everyone complains about moris. Hell suiciding and DCing is just a mori that the killer doesn't have to burn an offering for.
you are correct. this is a team game on survivor side, yes.
"Being selfish on survivor side is almost like working with the killer in the advantage it gives you."
what advantage does it give me being paired with survivors who still think turning on a generator while watching me die is a good idea for any reason they might make up?
"Survivors complain about 'toxic' killers, and ruin and noed and bloodlust. Y'all are the biggest handicaps to yourselves that I've seen."
if i am providing myself a huge handicap by leaving a game where my own team are choosing to allow me to be "sacrificed" for no legitimate reason, why are you the one complaining about me doing it on the forum? again i put it to you and all others that if you have written me off as a "distraction" or whatever you want to call it, i could care less about providing you anything at all, much less another full minute or more of my life. you really shouldn't even be in a game with someone on my level.
"Everyone complains about moris. Hell suiciding and DCing is just a mori that the killer doesn't have to burn an offering for."
personally i don't complain about moris, i like them. i complain about people who dc from those matches because they think moris are "toxic" partially because i understand that you thinking something is "toxic" for whatever reason equates to little more than "i've heard a brittney spears song a few times and thought it was fitting"..
things people call "toxic" are really just a one word description of things they don't like personally. i could flip it around and say avoiding moris are "toxic", leaving people on hooks to die is "toxic".
to me, stealth play in general is "toxic".. to stealth players, i'm "toxic" or "bullying the killer" because i'm not wasting more than half of my life practicing to be an inanimate object.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/664211#Comment_664211
I agree and disagree with the statement you replied to because, yes its true that gens are a counter, but the poor person who sat there waiting possibly ages getting into the game gets no points and has their gameplay experience ruined, it's not fun at all for the person being camped nor is it rewarding for them at all.
maybe giving the hooked person points for being a distraction as they are camped could help alleviate it without adding more punishments for the person on the hook, but not tons of points.
they do give that guy that died quickly on the hook more points.. they're just waiting to be claimed by loading into the next game..
think about it, 892 max struggle points, takes a minute to claim.. if you use that minute to load into a new game there'll probably be a totem worth 1000 right next to you when you spawn..
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@csandman1977 said:
While camping sucks for the person on hook, it has a huge benefit to your team. In all honesty, what screws over survivors more is when they suicide/DC on the hook. That's what you should be more upset about. Not the killer wasting time.
spoken like a substitute teacher who doesn't understand the material.
if you're watching me get camped and you're trying to focus on gens and rush out at my expense, all i can say is LUL..
hope you get better at the game at some point, but the only thing i can guarantee is that i'm not gonna stick around to find out if that point happens to be the current match..
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@Locker_Monster said:
1: It only works if Survivors LET it work.
If a Killer is camping; do gens. Do Bones. Open the exit gates. Sabo other hooks. Loot chests. DO NOT WALK TOWARDS THE KILLER.
2: Camping Throws The Game!
It takes 2 minutes to die on the hook, from first hooking. Plus 45 seconds (roughly) for a chase. That's around 165 seconds. Or 2 minutes 45 Seconds.
It takes 80 seconds to solo a gen without a toolkit. So it takes 160 seconds to do 2 gens, solo. There's 3 Survivors, so Survivors can do 6/5 gens in the time it takes to get a kill via camping.
3: There used to be a punishment; Survivors abused it!
Just as it says; Survivors found out how to abuse the punishment. This forced Killers to either get punished by the game, or allow free unhookings. That's right; some of you complaining actually ruined it for yourselves.
Bottom Line:
Camping is only successful because Survivors ALLOW it to be. But hey; why get better at the game and learn to play when you can demand nerfs & force people to play by your made-up rulebook, amIrite?
I also love that everyone claims 'Camping will chase away new Survivors' & offer solutions that would chase away new Killers...But these same people never mention that part. 🤔
It's almost like they don't really care about balance or the health of the game. They just want to skew the power dynamic more towards Survivor & get something they can abuse again...Huh...
horrible advice from someone who sounds like they enjoy losing..
use the opportunity to learn how to get better at the game.. what good is an empty "survived" match for no fun and no reward?
it's a game, go have fun with it.. poke the killer in the ass, throw a pebble at him, play peek-a-boo with him from barely out of his attack range.. quit being little b-words and running out of the door..
if one person triggers the camper enough, he will stop paying attention to the hook for a second, and someone else (if they are ready to) can make a safe unhook..
if your teammates aren't performing well in the camping situation, hopefully they're not always your teammates and hopefully you'll have better teammates in the next game..
they can't all be winners, but none of them can if you have super lame teammates for every game..
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@DWolfAlpha said:
I'm just proposing a BP boost for people being camped. Why does this seem to be an issue? It would be in a field already there. Probably boldness or altruism. Obviously not objective or survival. It wouldn't even affect the killer. LIke, in any way.
Doing gens is great for the other survivors. But only for as long as the camped player is on the hook. Which won't be very long if they just DC or mash buttons to get sacrificed quicker. I get that a lot of players already stay as long as they can to keep the killer from doing anything else, but that is not always the case. It doesn't even change the game. It's still played the same as long as people remain to actually play the game. In no way does this actually change what can be done. Just adds to the reward system while it's being played.
giving a BP Boost for people being camped isn't a good idea in the slightest.
it rewards you slightly more for doing absolutely nothing.
you may not be doing absolutely nothing by choice, but seriously, who cares? just get another game and make tons more bp.. you don't deserve to be given bonus bp for not doing anything because someone else did something you didn't like..
i'm not even sure i can wrap my head around that logic.. "you should pay me more as if i did more than i did because it could very well have been someone else's fault that i didn't do as much as i would have liked to"
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@DWolfAlpha said:
I'm sure everyone has experienced this by now. At least if you play survivor more than just for Dailies. You get caught and hooked quite early in the match, and the the killer just stands there. Doing nothing. Until the Entity just takes you away. At this point, there is literally nothing you can do to counter this. Sure, there are perks that make it much easier to get off the hook without help, but if the killer is just standing there, you aren't making it very far. Tunneling and Slugging at least have a perk that can allow you to punish the killer for focussing on you and ignoring everyone else.
I know what many people are thinking, as I've heard the arguments before, "But if the killer is camping, the other survivors can just gen rush to punish them." You know what? When I'm a survivor, and I only make 1000 bp cuz the killer just stands there, and through perks that encourage that particular tactic grant the killer over 20k without doing anything else, I really don't feel like playing a survivor any more. This makes it very difficult for new players to gain an interest in playing the game. And killers that do this have the gall to complain about DC's, too. Like, if I can't do anything, why would I stay for a lousy 200 bp so you can get 20k? That makes the game not worth my time.
In case anyone is wondering, I'm a killer main. I really only play survivor cuz Ash was added to the game.
No, for my suggested solution. And no, I'm not proposing a punishment for people who camp. There are too many perks that encourage it to suddenly punish people for doing so. No, I suggest a distraction blood point event for anyone that has been camped, by a factor affected by how long the killer stood close enough or just close enough to watch the hooked survivor. Or, as tunneling has been countered by Borrowed Time, or slugging has been countered by Unbreakable, add a perk to the game that gives hooked survivors something if they're being camped. Either increased BP, as that is this game's currency, or slow the timer while they're being camped, or increase the chances of them escaping if they're being camped. Something that helps the person being camped. So far, all I can think of is the upcoming perk from the Stranger Things DLC that pauses the timer if someone is close to you.
dont listen to people who tell you silly things like "do gens" and "dont get caught", etc.
those are the people that think that's the way you deal with a camping killer and they're unlikely to change their minds because they're all super scared of their own shadows..
fact of the matter is if you are regularly playing with people that leave you on a hook as "bait" or whatever, forcing you to "take one for the team", then you're just on a really really bad team..
i'd recommend encouraging those people to get a little bit better at the game and if they choose not to, don't continue playing with them particularly if you have the choice.
if you are a random in that game and don't know your teammates, you've lost nothing (although you've also gained nearly nothing) but you you can consider it a whammy round and just move on to the next game that will hopefully have better survivors in it..
face camping just became a gift, not a curse.. :)
good luck in the fog.
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as a survivor main, i am constantly thrown into matches with people who don't break totems on the chance it may be haunted ground..
totally a silly thing to do, but it happens all the time..
with this many people that play in that manner, it doesn't really matter much where your totems are in a lot of games..
if myself or someone else who does break totems is in your game, your totem may not last long..
either way it's a chance you took by using a totem perk.. just like it's a chance i received just by loading into a game with people i don't know and didn't choose..
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@JordanMalicious said:
4 games in a row, a teammate unhooked me while the killer was chasing them, well within the terror radius but they weren't running borrowed time. Killer downed them and me. Needed to vent. If you're gonna save within the terror radius, have f****** borrowed time. Really helps out and stops frustrating sh** from happening. I'd rather stay on hook in those situations.
why would you rather be left on the hook? at least you get another chance to run hopefully, and if not, you were dead anyway if they left you there, so why not let them try to get some practice and experience at doing things that are bold and actually useful?
at the very least you get a few more points for whatever happens in between you being put on the previous hook and you dying.
@Objectively_speaking said:
Ah I see, if only you were more focused or had made the right choice. But you indecisiveness caused you to be stricken down by the killer. (Run Decisve Strike or don't get hooked)
what a lame statement lol.. ~
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@immortalls96 just get better at the game and try to have fun until you do.. you must not be good enough to adapt to the loss of a teammate and still have a good time, so seriously, relax.. just have a good time.. find people to help in the fog and follow them around, hang out with them, and see what happens..
if you are trying to be the best of the best every time you load into dead by daylight trials, you're setting yourself up for having a really bad time.. most people out there aren't trying to be the best of the best.. they're trying to do who knows what who knows where, with or without who knows who..
at the risk of getting boo'd here comes another one: who cares? there's a killer after you! maybe you should focus on running and escaping the chases as long as you can and hopefully learn a little bit each time you do..
if that game goes over a little bit quickly again, who cares? there's another game waiting on you to give it another go.. become a better teammate by learning how to operate in situations differently and you'll end up having fun even if you're trying not to..
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also many people right now are unable to deal with solo queue so there's even more swf going on than normal..
not saying there's no solo queue of course, i mostly play solo as do many people, but i am aware of a large number of people who refuse to at the moment even tho they weren't like that a little bit ago..
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@Warlock_2020 said:
Nothing will be done about camping, ever. It was a horrible grief system left open in the game's design. It is PART of the toxic style of play that keeps this game from really hitting big and having huge player numbers. I've seen so many new players leave due to either camping/tunneling killers who are purposely deranked and torture new players, or groups of survivors who derank just to mess with new killers.
It is a toxic system that the developers don't have the balls to do anything about, and it will forever be an albatross on the neck of the game.
what keeps the game where you think it is being kept is players refusing to understand that not knowing how to break a camp is the solution to camping, so get better, break camps, and have no more complaints about made up "horrible grief system"(s).. switch instead your complaints to your "horrible teammates" that are too busy complaining on forums in hopes of an alternate game to just stop and get better at the game.
i guess people are just miraculously blown away by how super awesome they are at reaching skill caps that are astronomical in such little amounts of time way too often.
here's your direct notification: you can still get much better at this game if you are worried about camping killers. see my message above if you need more info. you're welcome.
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i got tired of clicking everyone's names.. as posted in another topic about camping, here is a breakdown of what you want nerfed. i also clicked a few people that were discussing the "counter strategy" to camping that new players might not know :)
Camping a survivor is a legitimate play style. If other survivors are not skilled enough to break the camp, it makes for a silly game.
the survivors try to "punish the killer" by "rushing the gens" to "avenge their fallen friend", everyone in the game is just asking for a depip over silliness. you can easily go over there and rescue the survivor if you came prepared and are as skilled as you'd like to think you are.
the killer is being lazy and wants you to come to them. they want nothing but free hooks and an easy game.. lucky for you, they're really bad (per your own words), so its fairly easy to break the camp. a lot of the times it requires trading places with the person on the hook, but you can easily get a friend off of the hook before they reach stage 2, allowing them to be healed and get some points while you "buy the group a minute (60 seconds)".. each time the 1 minute mark nears, it's someone else's turn..
it's easy practice and easy to learn and makes a really crappy game turn into one that's super fun, challenging, and rewarding. it also grows your skills as a player.
why again would anyone want this act to be "punished" or "removed" or considered invalid? must be because they're too scared or lazy to figure out how to get better than someone who depips while watching their friends die..
-EntitledBoner.
@ad19970 said:
It’s been discussed time and time again on these forums. Maybe the most discussed topic. But there’s a reason for that. And I am surprised there are still so many people that think it’s fine the way it is.
Let’s get this clear though. Camping is not a balance issue. In fact, it’s not very effective against high ranks, since they know how to counter camping. Yes I get that argument. No point in bringing it up. But that’s not the point. The point is, it’s simply a serious flaw in the game’s design. And I just don’t get why anyone wouldn’t want the game to become better designed, even if it only benefits one side. Nerfing camping would only nerf an awful strategy, it wouldn’t nerf skilled killers in any way. So it really shouldn’t be a problem.
Obviously, camping can’t be removed. It’s part of the core design of the game since it involves having to hook a survivor and have them bleed out until they die.
But it should be made way more ineffective than it is right now. It’s the best the devs could do. Simple as that. It is without a doubt for me one of the biggest sources of frustration for survivor players, and I think we can’t ignore it anymore, seeing how within at least the last half a year killer queue times have generally been longer than survivor queue times. Which probably means there are too many killers and not enough survivors.
What really worries me is that now, with the huge wave of new players that will probably try this game thanks to Stranger Things, many of the new survivor players might just end up quitting the game after a few days because of being camped to often. And you can’t blame them, being forced by the killer to not be able to play the game is just awful, and I wouldn’t want to play a game that has this happening often.
Now it can’t be removed, but it can be made way less effective than it is now. At lower ranks, it’s probably really good most of the time, because low rank survivors don’t know how to counter it, and we simply can’t ignore the low rank players. It’s less effective at high ranks, but slap on Hex: Ruin and NOED and you still got a chance to 4k, despite the low skill it requires to pull that off.
So, the devs can do something about it, or just ignore it. But at this point it feels like ignoring camping is also ignoring the longer killer queue times. And at least I don't want to ignore this. I am a killer main, and I don't want killer queue times to increase.
I know the argument is that they tried punishments for camping, and it didn’t work. But give me a break, I really doubt they tried everything possible to nerf camping. Bleedout speed should be decreased by 60% or so after the survivor has been hooked for 20 seconds if the killer is still within a 28 meter radius of the hooked survivor and on the same floor. At the very least have the killer’s aura shown to survivors when staying near the hook for a certain amount of time, but I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t be enough. If a survivor is within that radius, or even an increased radius of 32 meters, the penalty disappears, same goes for when the killer is in a chase or the exit gates are powered. So it can’t be abused like the camping punishment that was tried on the ptb already. Unless I’m missing something, then feel free to tell me how survivors could abuse it.
A different way to nerf camping is to give survivors a counter to it. Make sabotaging hooks reduce the Bleed out Speed of survivors that get hooked on those hooks by 50%. This way sabotaging hooks might be viable, and not just make killers slug instead of hooking survivors. The only thing I fear with this idea is that it won’t be used by inexperienced survivors enough to help them against camping killers.
People say killers should just be rewarded for not camping, and I don’t mind that. I’ve seen the suggestion that survivors that are unhooked suffer a generator repair speed penalty of 10 or 15 % for like 60 seconds, which I think is a great idea. But keeping camping as effective as it is now will still lead to many relying on camping, no matter how much you reward them for not camping. Why stop camping if it still can work as well as it does now? It would still need to be nerfed.
@Gopher said:
I always say that if a killer is camping, do the gens. At most, the killer will get a 2k if everyone gen rushes a camping killer. In the end, the killer will get way less points by camping. I'm not sure they realize this, or maybe they don't care and are just looking for ruin someone's game experience. Others argue that it's a strategy and I agree, although it isn't the best strategy. When I play killer, I hook and immediately go after someone else. More points, more fun and less salt in the endgame chat, haha.
@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/663457#Comment_663457
Yes, exactly. But new players won't know how to counter camping. They'll just get camped or face a camping killer, think this game sucks, and leave. Not really favorible prospects for the game.
@Locker_Monster said:
Here we go for the 5000000000th time.
Camping is a legit strat.
Camping defeats itself by being a BAD legit strat.
There used to be a punishment to camping: Survivors found out how to abuse it to screw over Killers.
Camping is part of the game.
Complaining about camping is like going to the Overwatch forums to complain about sniping. 'I think Snipers need to be nerfed. Sniping takes skill, but new players are going to get sniped nonstop & can't snipe back. So sniping will chase new players away.'
If you slow down the bleedout, guess what Survivors do?
They stay just far enough away to force the Killer to camp for 5 minutes & lose the game, or the Killer has to walk away & give up a free unhook. This is EXACTLY what happened with the old punishment; Survivors would stay just outside the Killer's TR, so the game thought 'he's camping for no reason!' & punished the Killer.
If you reveal the Killer's aura after <x> time, guess what?
Insidious is now useless. Remove the perk. Again; Survivors stay just far enough away to trigger the punishment, forcing the Killer to eat it or walk away.
People need to stop with the 'Nerf/Punish/Remove Camping' threads. They're either wrong on many levels, or want to remove it simply because they hate it and want everyone to conform to their rule book.
Punishments were tried. They were abused. Camping is how it is. Stop.
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you guys say mori's are unfun to go against.. i say i like going against a mori killer and even getting mori'd.. i can never say enough that getting mori'd is a special thing that breaks up the monotony of being sacrificed on hook or bleeding out.
a killer has to plan for it, use an offering that isn't a common offering, and that's only for the chance to be able to mori you. they still have to be able to execute their plan and make you dead.
there is nothing wrong or unbalanced with a mori just because you feel like you shouldn't have died so quickly. enjoy the sweet animation and move on to the next game, or watch your friends get mori'd.
the mori isn't the unfun thing to go against, the unfun thing is when all of your teammates (and probably yourself) are all too scared to do anything so you hide forever and nothing gets done just drawing out the process and making it take way longer than it should and making you survivors get way less reward for time spent in game..
TL;DR :::: mori's are awesome, quit being little b-words.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662869#Comment_662869
Actually there is something that can be done about it. If not the self unhook stage, we can at least rework the struggle phase so that you can't let go. That way you'll at least give your teammates that 1 minute you're obliged to give them if you decide to ragequit suicide.
Letting go because of the hatch work only because killer allows it to work, so that not real argument.
i like this part:
"That way you'll at least give your teammates that 1 minute you're obliged to give them if you decide to ragequit suicide."
what makes them obligated to give their teammates anything? are you obligated to get them off of a hook? are you obligated to help them with objective tasks? are you obligated to make sure they take all 3 hooks before you take 1?
:)
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@Kebek if you have a strong trend of people choosing to leave your game what you would consider "prematurely", understand that there's a good chance they're leaving your game because they don't like what they see you and other teammates doing..
also understand that your actions, whether people can see what you are doing or not, can easily make someone choose to label the game they are in as a waste of time.
perhaps whatever you are doing in game is what is actually "encouraging other players to disconnect" or die quickly to leave your game..
requesting some kind of enforcement for them to have to stay in the game with you is kind of silly. instead, maybe you should do things to try and make them want to stay in the game with you..
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forgot to mention @Weck ,
my lobbies are usually pretty near instant, all the time.. if i wait more than 30s it's rare, and still over in less than a minute..
misread and edited to reflect.
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@Alice_pbg said:
3-6 per hour is quite generous.
Theres lobby, on average matches last about 15 minutes, the ones that end fast don't give a lot of bloodpoints.
And your "generous" average is 5 games per hour?
20 matches to get 1million bps means you get 50k bps per match. I highly doubt that.
you can highly doubt whatever you like. truth is it's only math..
there's a thing called "law of averages" that actually dictates the more times you do something, the better over-all that you do. not every game is a high scoring game. some games i get shut out within the first minute and only get like 3k BP.. good news is, it only takes a minute and i'm back in a brand new game, meaning i've essentially played 2 games within 10 minutes. if the 2nd game takes a full 10 minutes that jumps the MATH to 2 games in less than 20 minutes. how do you think i'm being too generous estimating up to 6 games in 1 hour?
the less time i spend trying to buff a piece of poo into something other than that, the more time i spend actually gaining BP while having fun..
just because the numbers seem unreasonable to you doesn't mean you're an authority on the subject or topic.
for me to get 50k bp in a game, i only need to max 3 scoring categories and get 4 WGLF stacks. it only takes a few minutes to max 3 scoring categories if you're actively playing the game and gaining score. a green basic bp offering in one of those 3 categories brings that number up, and a cake or anyone throwing a single BPS offering turns that easy 50k into an easy 75k. if 2 people throw bps in that game we're now at a super easy 100k BP for a single game..
it doesn't matter if i play a game that isn't a scoring game because i will identify it as such and i will die on hook and allow the remaining players to hide it out and see if they can get that 5-7k bp for escaping eventually at some point after i'm gone, but while they're doing that i'm out getting paid..
on the streets, it's referred to as "hustlin the grind".. :)
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/84604/no-challenge-as-killer-anymore
I guess you don't mind sharing plenty of videos of your red ranks games where you stomp everybody
no need IMO.. all he had to do was avoid immersed looking player lobbies. non immersed players appreciate scoring events over uneventful hiding games.
the most fun and rewarding games in the reds were always the games where we might have never actually powered up a generator, but all 4 survivors died with 28-32k BASE bloodpoint score.. yes that, right, every player in the game can very easily have a super good time and easily max 3 or even all 4 scoring categories.. pair that with perks that double the score (now at up to 64k per game), add a pudding or a bps (96k per game)..
once people learn that's actually a thing, it's hard to revert to or respect a player that aims for a 13-20k bp for one person "win"..
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662566#Comment_662566
No a lot of my opinions are based on playing the past few months on my second account, where at first I was limiting myself to low ranks (below 16) purposely to act as a sort of training ground for survivors (I'd let them go) and a free kill for killers. This is all observation of new players, like a science experiment but with more stabbing.
Most if not all new players just freeze in a corner when the killer comes around unless it's completely obvious they were spotted. I can't tell you how often I would just see someone hiding in plain sight like I was blind or something.
But the difference between a Claudette doing this and any other character is that, with Claudette this tactic will WORK especially against new killers that don't know what to look for. I would spot them almost immediately because I'm used to it, but I'm sure a real rank 20 killer would just walk right past them. Jake or Meg though, they stick out like a sore thumb.
So that's why I say she promotes bad habits because hiding in plain sight is not a valid tactic against good killers. It will work at low ranks, the player gets a false sense of security, they continue to do it as they play more into higher ranks and then hit a brick wall because it stops working. Now they are in a situation where they get found all the time because they never learned how to properly hide from the killer since their character just kind of did the work for them, and they probably didn't even realize it.
And yea, Claudette can hide right in front of a good killer I've had people pull that off on me. But it's rare and EXTREMELY risky to pull off. Hence why I say stop telling people to start with Claud. She is like auto-hiding mode for newbies and comes with a perk that teaches them to prioritize running far away to heal themselves instead of doing objectives or finding another survivor to heal them which is faster. She doesn't help new players learn the game, she just holds their hand a bunch and makes them think they are getting better when it's not them it's the character.
If you want newbies to get better at the game you need to challenge them and make them take some risks.
yeah i'm not new and i miss blendettes all of the time (killer and survivor).. understand that this is where the unofficial "mori the blendette" rule comes from.
many killers understand when they see that blendette that the proper thing to do is stop whatever they are doing and get that blendette on a hook or out of the game as quickly as possible because you very well may never see her again. this works exponentially better if you can get it done quickly and not give them a chance to enjoy their sweet blendette skills before they're dead.
i couldn't tell you how many times i've "accidently" noticed a floating toolbox or medkit somewhere and done a double-take just to find out it's actually a blendette right there holding something. if it wasn't for the item in their hand i'd have never known. i can tell you that every time it's happened they immediately became the guest of honor in the game, at least for a minute..
:)
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@aurum_exe said:
thank you for your well explained clarification and i'm sure that i will learn better this game as more as i practice . I know my statements can be a little hard but some mechanics in this game are a little frustrating. When unhooked survivors run away from the hook, to my opinion, it exagerate the "trauma" (this game has tons of psichological mechanics involved). I go with them, wherever they go and i heal them, but seriously some of them don't stop even when the distance from the killer is far more than reasonable. Some killers, when someone is unhooked, come back at the hook, but most don't, maybe because they are chasing someone else. Most of my death came from survs who unhook too early, while they should understand that "the most you stay far from gens the higher the chances to die in there". Leave somebody on the hook 10/20 seconds more and do gens ffs!
Regarding the vaulting objects, i recon their value, but 90% of the times you get hit even if you are already landed to the other side. I know that killers has arms, but some vualt hits are just pure nonsense to my opinion. Killers don't have just "arms", they have spring/plastic arms that goes against physics. XD
Thanks for the advices!
to help you out with that, yes, you are 100% correct. once a player actually gets better at the game, they realize that "seconds count" and they get an understanding that for every second they let pass gets them closer to losing.
when you unhook someone, 100% of the time you actually should immediately start healing them under the hook until the moment you know for a fact that the killer is actually coming back. it is best when the hook isn't somewhere that blocks visibility so you can actually see the killer coming back if he chooses to, but even in that scenario you don't need to run super far away, just move 8-10 feet to somewhere where you actually can see (but only if the killer is on the way back).
more advanced players will understand that every bit of healing you put into them after being unhooked before they run off is that much closer to being fully healed. they will also understand that many times even when the killer is coming, there is more than enough time to finish the heal and doing that is actually much better than running away still injured.
these things being said, not all players who are experienced actually understand the game, nor are they all "advanced players".
there are plenty of people out there who think they're super awesome, but really their entire goal is to watch everyone else die so they can keep thinkin they're "the best".. these are the exact people who when injured run all the way across the map and hide, heal (maybe), and wait for you to all die so they can win.
pulling you off of the hook quickly gives them points and gets you that much closer to being out of the game in a last-man-standing sort of fashion instead of a teamwork kind of fashion..
this is why when you have these people on your team and you have identified them, its usually better to switch focus from trying to accomplish the goals of the round (which leaves you as a much easier bait for the killer than someone hiding in a useless part of the map waiting for you to die) and better off going and seeing if you can get them to somehow die before you for all of their "effort".
simply having them on your team makes your game a wash at best if you continue focusing on objectives and try to complete the round in the traditional sense. attempting to join their last-man-standing round that they're working on and pulling them back into the action with the killer may very well end up the difference between depipping and double pipping depending on how things work out, but it usually easily without real effort will allow you to get to a safety pip for your troubles at the very least.. much better than depipping because the squatters let or helped you die super quickly.
this causes the complaints about "what are rando's actually doing in game" to be a circular one. people don't want to do anything because they think nobody is doing anything and they themselves don't want to die while everyone else is hiding, forcing them to also hide and forcing everyone to not have fun. if someone wants to play last man standing, doing it tournament style is much more fun than hide and seek no contest.
it's very important to be able to distinguish between having a team that is doing something and having someone or a few people on your team that are just worthless. i used to use a method where i would turn on 1 generator when i loaded into a game, and then for every gen that activated that i did not do, i would do 1 more, but until then i'd just run around looking for more interesting things to do.. it was a very good method.
these days i've upgraded my tactics to just not doing generators solo. i will run around and patrol gens similar to the killer, difference being if there are people on a gen I join them and work on it as long as they do, but the second they leave me on the gen and begin to walk or run away, i just leave the gen and go with them.. if they're not doing the gen why should i? plus i get double bp for cooperative actions thanks to Prove Thyself (dwight perk), so i don't want to block my chance at doubling bp by doing it solo..
don't get me wrong, even if i'm maxed out in the objective category, i will still help anyone who i see actually trying to play the game as much as i can help them. i will stick with them til the end and do what i can to make sure they get out, but if they're not actually trying to play the game & they're just waiting for everyone to die off so they can be victorious, i will do the exact opposite and focus my energy into trying to make sure they are not victorious.. doesn't always work, but it's always fun :)
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@pemberley said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662326#Comment_662326
I don’t think that’s true. Claudette can disappear when you prestige her or buy her certain cosmetics but let’s be honest - new players will not be doing either until they know they enjoy the game.
And new players will not know enough to stand still right in the killer’s vision - they’re going to get flushed out like birds.
You got to remember and think like a new player - all of your opinions and biases stem from thousands of hours of experience.
when i was brand new people told me to run claudette.. i had maybe 2 games before i bought the charity case for $5 and got her pitch black jacket to don.
today there are many more blendy outfits available just as easily to a new player.
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you're absolutely correct about the potato teammates being the worst thing in the game, far worse than the sweatiest of killers.
sometimes there is more at play than people realize tho. i have 5k hours and i commonly get blamed by less experienced players for "farming" someone or unhooking them in front of the killer, even tho i'm not farming them at all. every now and then it may go bad for whatever reason, but we can say easily 9 out of 10 times they are safely unhooked and run away without issue.
the 1 out of 10 times it goes bad can either be an unsafe unhook where the survivor is downed again within 10 seconds due to them not getting borrowed time, me getting pulled off of the survivor before unhooking, or me getting downed without getting the unhook.
the majority of the time i make these unhooks in front of the killer there is no other way and it is a last chance effort before they switch hook states. there is nothing worse in this game than allowing someone to switch hook states, even tho that isn't the popular opinion. personally if my team allows me to switch hook states i'm very likely to get up and go get a drink or use the bathroom or something instead of pressing the struggle button..
as for the player bringing the killer to you on the gen, there are many reasons that can happen too, and most of them aren't a bad thing on their own. if someone is being chased, they have to go where they have to go in order to avoid getting downed for as long as possible.. sometimes you're just at the next (closest) pallet or window and there's no choice.
if they are injured already and have been getting chased, they may swing by there on purpose to see if the killer can switch targets so they can get healed up and do something other than be chased for the whole match. if you are at full health which you should be, you should have no complaints about taking the killer for a little bit and helping your teammate get patched up & back in the game. if you are working cooperatively on the gen with other teammates it's even better because it's more confusion for the killer to process and decide their next move. you could also think of it as multiple people who can take protection hits without actually being downed and hooked.
this should not make you sad, as your scoring events have just begun to skyrocket in categories you may not have points in yet. you get points for reuniting with the chased survivor, you get boldness multiplier on what you're doing for being so close in the terror radius, you get boldness, distraction, even protection and chase points. your teammate gets an opportunity to heal up, making them useful again if things go south for you. they have already demonstrated at least a decent ability to win chases against the killer at that point.
on the other hand if you do your best to avoid contact with the killer in the moment where your teammate needs your help, essentially saying "hey, you're on your own pal..", you may have just convinced your teammate to do everything in their power to try and get you killed for being a blendette (regardless of the character you are playing in that moment, as blendette now refers to a play style even tho originally it was reserved for the character herself).
as for the survivor you unhooked running away like babies or whatever, that happens a lot.. when it happens to me, i just go with them :).. if they don't want to do anything but run to the other side of the map and spend a few minutes hiding and healing super far away from the action, why should i stay over there and do gens or whatever? i will chase them leaving scratch marks all the way to where they want to go, and once we get there together, if they insist on self healing instead of letting me heal them i'll happily keep spinning around them in circles leaving bright red scratch marks on the vertical wall next to them that the killer can see from a good distance away. if possible i'll drop a pallet or jump thru a window a few times just to "see what happens".
most of the time they get the idea and cut it out. sometimes they commit and you get to see who dies first.. it's usually pretty fun either way imo..
your window and pallet suggestion tho, phew, where to begin..
i guess the best place to begin is by asking you not to make statements like "Avoid them at all cost! They're pest!" when talking about windows and vaults.
windows are a very good resource, and once you learn how to use them properly they're literally overpowered..
lithe is an exhaustion perk for feng min that is activated when jumping thru a window. it gives you a speed burst for a few seconds with the killer behind the window still needing to vault it just to continue chase. using this perk in the beginning of a chase is not great and will still result in your being downed and hooked typically by a decent killer.
while using it tho, you learn to use it after you've looped something a couple of times, and you learn what directions not to run in after vaulting a window.
brace yourself for the magic: once you learn these 2 things you end up finding out that windows actually work exactly the same even without the perk, minus the speed burst of course.
windows are your "windows" to game play without using exhaustion perks.
if you weren't supposed to take hits at windows at certain times, windows would be essentially infinite loops within themselves. you need to learn how to use the windows to minimize the hits that you take. you can actually use the hit you take in the window as a "free" version of lithe without even running the perk. windows remain a free exhaustion perk that you don't even have to equip!
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@goldseeker22 said:
oh since today im all for camping. infact ive been doing nothing but camp for the last 6 games. been getting good ammount of kills.
as long as your game is full of survivors that don't save you will continue banging them up or depipping with them, ez pz.. :)
stealth players don't save without the perfect opportunity, and runners don't want stealth players to save them even if they get the opportunity to :) you'll be cashing it in..
if they're SWF the one on the hook will probably tell them not to save & the entire team will gen rush & depip with you, so it's like the perfect world rn for it :)
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@goldseeker22 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662306#Comment_662306
u seem to make the mistake of assuming there is a fix for camping that way.
the ONLY thing that fixes camping. is making it less worth it for the killer than not camping.
incorrect. many killers camp. many killers always have. sometimes it's only situational, sometimes it's a strategy they go into the match intending to do.
it is your job as a survivor to make sure the killer fails his attempt to camp. it's as easy as that. i do it all the time. it's not as difficult as you may think, but a lot of the time it requires switching places with the person on the hook and relying on your team to do the same if necessary.
the more you can successfully shake the killer, the more shaken he will be and the more mistakes he will make. every time a person is put on a hook, you have 60s to get them off of the hook before they switch stages or die.
the proper thing to do when someone gets hooked is finish the gen you're working on, then go in to the hooked person to see if you can help. many times you only get a very brief window of opportunity to get it done, so being far away doing something else only dooms your teammate to "death by a dirty lousy camping killer that probably has noed and no skill"..
fact of the matter is the person or people that tell you that when you're dying on hook are the ones that caused your death, not the dirty camper.. don't say anything to them tho or they'll just default to reminding you that you just need to get better at the game and not get caught if you want to not die on hook to a dirty camper :)
-EntitledBoner.
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having a go at survivors for escaping unbroken and having an opinion based on solid fact in regards to their play style i'm pretty sure are two different things.
stating that overly stealthy survivors trying to get unbroken IRI don't add anything to another player's team except chunky cheese and having a preference of not wanting to remain on their team for long nor allow them to "rank up" by farming me for points between hiding spots isn't quite the same thing as "having a go" at stealthy survivors, even tho it may feel that way.
the fact of the matter is we will never get separate queues for "stealth" players vs "actual" players because no killer in their right mind would ever choose to load into the hide & seek last man standing queue. that means you guys are always gonna have to be threaded into games with real players as basically a hidden whammy.
explanation:
you put so much effort into maxing your Unbroken, providing yourself with 1 extra emblem point for the IRI, while avoiding many opportunities to make more than that 1 emblem point in other categories by contributing to your "technical" team, learning new skills, and having a good time.
if you insist you're having a good time like most "stealth" players, then right on.. keep up the good work.. at the same time, there sure are a lot of you guys on the forums pleading your cases for making ranking easier because it's too hard or too unfair, etc.
non-stealth players are trying to get you little goobers out of our lobbies but again, where would you go? should you be forced upon all of the rank 20 killers? should their games blow even harder while they have to try even harder to find practiced "blendette squads" hiding somewhere behind one of the random objects between each edge of the map?
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@GT_Legend2 said:
dream pallets are identical to real pallets, and Freddy has a zero cool down and 10 at his disposal at all times. I would like for these to be changed as it makes the reworked Freddy very unfun to go against.
Dream snares are nice, as they can be identified, and they have use in loops.
you can also not see dream pallets when in micro sleep, but when we Freddy hits you or you literally do nothing for 60 seconds, you are instantly put into sleep
if you are complaining about dream pallets, you are spending too much time asleep.. when you fall asleep, this makes you vulnerable to either pallets or snares, because you're asleep. if you are awake, you won't see fake pallets or be effected by snares.
boo hoo these are too op please nerf == i'm someone who doesn't attempt to stay awake because i'm too busy gen rushing trying to "win".. lul
if you are awake when you begin to get chased, you have up to 1 minute to break the chase in order to be able to stay awake. if the chase takes as long as you falling asleep, or if you get hit by freddy, you will now be even more vulnerable to him because you are asleep.
if you are choosing to remain asleep during freddy games for whatever reason, please start by looking there for your own solution to your problem.
@Locker_Monster said:
Killer: *Uses His/Her Power*
Survivors: Nerf!
You're griping about Dream Pallets and Freddy's new sleep mechanic? Really? What's next? 'I can't see the Trappers beartraps in tall grass. Can you make them bright neon orange so I don't step in them?'
lol every day for years already :o) tbf it goes both ways tho.. every day for years killers cry nerf about survivors too..
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662309#Comment_662309
Pretend I am a new player and don't know anything about the ranking system, and explain it to me. You have to do it in a reasonably sized paragraph (100 words or less) per role, and you are not allowed to link me to any external explanation or use an image attachment, and no incomplete sentences just to save words.
This is rhetorical because I don't think it's actually possible. That's why it needs to be simplified. The emblem screen is confusing for new players, it doesn't explain how anything is tabulated except in the broadest possible sense, and there are all kinds of weird rules to it. I've got hundreds of hours in this game, and I still think this system is needlessly obtuse.
EDIT: Also, to be clear, if you decide to do this, it has to be something I won't easily forget or have to refer back to, and it must eliminate the possibility of me ever having a single follow-up question due to weird exceptions or edge cases.
i want in on this, here goes:
there are 4 scoring categories: objective (gens, doors, chests), boldness (chases, saves, benevolence), altruism (healing others), and survival (exiting the level or healing yourself).
each category is worth 25% of your total possible score. if you are super good at 1 category and avoid the other 3, you aren't earning rank. earning rank requires you to be at least okay in 3 of 4 categories.
there are things that can effect this tho, and cause you to lose rank even if you are sufficient in all 4 categories. for every unsafe unhook, no matter who does the unsafe unhook, each survivor needs to take 3 protection hits to make up for it. when someone gets unhooked they need to be protected from taking injury for 10 seconds afterwards no matter what because this effects the scores of all players on the team. if multiple people are unhooked unsafely the game is doomed, even if the unsafe unhook plan provides some sort of correction plan such as an instaheal or adrenaline to allow the unsafely unhooked survivor to then run away safely.
letting people die too quickly also causes you to lose emblem points, weakens your team, and lessens your chances for ranking up. allowing a killer to camp someone thinking that the killer is only punishing themselves by allowing you to complete objectives and leave faster is not only a bad thing to do, it's a horrible thing to do if you are trying to rank.
enter a game prepared to do your part to keep teammates alive and work cooperatively as much as possible towards maxing the 3 categories you can easily max (this does not include survival, specifically self care). as long as you don't get left by your team to die on first hook and you are able to max at least 2 scoring categories before the end of the game and no matter how the game ends you will pip. once you have maxed all other scoring categories, if you are provided the opportunity to continue taking hits fairly safely so that you can self heal with medkits or selfcare, feel free to focus on doing that to top out your game. before this point you should be allowing your teammates to get altruism (hopefully cooperatively) by healing you when you are injured, then you can work with your healer(s) to achieve cooperative points for yourself. prioritize cooperative altruism above everything else in the game and focus on getting it in every game.
borrowed time is the best perk for making sure teammates don't get camped to death. if you have to go switch places with that person before they hit stage 2, then that's what you have to do. hopefully someone on your team will return the favor.
prove thyself will allow you to easily max multiple scoring categories very quickly, especially if you're lucky enough for the killer to bring ruin.
i'd like to end this with 1 word:
EZ :)
-EntitledBoner.
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thank you for your kind concern for me in thinking that it is the ranking system punishing me, not teammates who don't understand how to play the game not allowing me to earn my rank. it really means a lot that people out there expose this "horrible" ranking system lmao
your whole post was pretty silly again this time, but i especially like this part:
"You don't beat a level of Mario by 100%ing it. You beat a level of Mario by reaching the end goal. You don't beat an opponent in Street Fighter by landing more throws or parrying more attacks. You win by knocking their health bar to zero or by having a higher health bar when the timer expires."
apparently winning vs mastery concept is completely lost on you.. :) i say good day to you sir, good day to you.
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@Yamaoka said:
At everyone who says pipping means winning. Who won the match if nobody pipped? 🤔
there isn't always a winner of everything.. there can also be a draw, a shut-out, a false start, etc.
as for billy @NuclearBurrito , as with literally every other killer in the game, it totally depends on the skills and actions of the survivors in the game. it depends on who gets caught in dead zones, what addons the killer played, if teammates let other teammates die, etc.
billy is a stronger killer in terms of map presence because he can close distance quickly and within seconds be on the opposite side of the map, and this makes him good, but not OP or UP or Balanced.. he is simply a strong killer due to speed at traversing the maps and also his ability to 1-hit down. he is also pretty fast just walking so it's easy to play him as an m1 killer if you are unskilled and still easily 3k or 4k, hence his easy rating.
perhaps "easy" would be the best term to describe billy, even tho he has a few aspects that require a more advanced mastery. that said, without the proper addons and situations, he can be fairly easy to avoid, especially if he's insisting on getting chainsaw hits for a daily or something.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662321#Comment_662321
I’ve actually learned that this is possible with other survivors, Quentin, Tapp, Meg and Jake Park.
possibly why a semi-popular smol little puppy doesn't wear his own shirt in game?
:)
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662059#Comment_662059
I don't believe my arguments to be flawed. I believe in games rewarding the winners. Simple.
"this game, even tho being a team game, was designed to not include communication."
And yet the devs have given their full okay for communication via third party means.
Whether or not that should be the case is a different discussion, but the reality is that it is the case. So this idea of not being able to know what others are doing doesn't really hold up.
"what you think of as success a lot of people consider a loop hole that degrades the quality of the gaming experiences for everyone involved.".
A lot of people also think of it a success. I myself am not sure if this is what it should be. But it is what it is currently and should be treated as such until something changes.
"just because you may not have the ability to fill in and help doesn't mean i should get the b/s end of the stick and be forced to miss out on 60%+ of the things that need to be done in a trial."
I want the system to change so that so you are not forced to follow an arbitrarily set of tasks to do well instead doing whatever it takes to survive/kill.
"factor that with you not having the ability to perform better than you do and my ability to perform in a manner for optimal fun is also severely crippled, taking a good portion of the fun out of the game."
It's called a ranking system, not a fun-o-meter. Again, the vast majority of other games work just fine with a simple win/loss. As should this.
you have again attempted well, but missed (probably on purpose) the meaning behind what i have been saying.
the ranking system doesn't "punish" me for not being able to perform 60%+ of the tasks in the game. i don't receive the ranking "reward" for my poor overall performance in terms of a well rounded match.
perhaps the mistake is in the concept of ranking in this game. let's look at that for a second:
rank 20, the highest possible ranks, is what you get when you are brand new and have never played (much) before. the more you play, the more you progress, down towards and achieving rank 1.
people who play a lot don't want to play with people who don't know how to play. the ranks are an indicator of play, not of skill.
how would a rank 1 player who dies every game keeping others alive differ from a rank 1 player who watches everyone die every game? which one would you consider more skilled? which one should be rewarded rank?
regardless,
"I want the system to change so that so you are not forced to follow an arbitrarily set of tasks to do well instead doing whatever it takes to survive/kill."
i don't consider it an arbitrary set of tasks. i consider them all of the game's objectives, similar to 100%ing a level of mario or anything else.. its a challenge i can count on every time i load into the game. a challenge that is much more fun and rewarding than "making it thru a level"..
i'm not sure i feel that people who are super concerned with "making it thru a level" should be considered or considering themselves "the best of the best"..
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@pemberley said:
Claudette is hands down the best survivor for new players.
I’m seeing a lot of discussion about how self care is bad and teaches bad habits but you’re saying that from a mountain of experience and a mountain of medkits. New survivors have neither.
I remember being a new player and I felt so lost, vulnerable, and scared if I got injured and my friend died. Self care gives new players confidence in surviving as an alone wolf and it gives solo veterans the assurance heals are always available.
Botany AND Empathy are both really good for beginners because unlike Bond, Empathy is map wide and provides the survivor with knowledge of where the killer might be. Botany is great all around but especially handy against Sloppy Butcher - a popular generic perk - and it encourages the survivors to want to support their team. I remember being a newbie and I was TERRIBLE at gens but I felt I could contribute by being the healer.
Tldr; Claudette is by far the best because ALL of her perks are useful for beginners that allow them to survive on their own and she is not locked behind a paywall. David is one of the worst to pick up first because he is NOT noob friendly.
Learning stealth play is valid and it teaches the foundation of the game. When players get more experience, then they can start playing more boldly. Trying to shoehorn new players into the run’n’gun play style kills the fear of dbd quicker (I miss the days I was SCARED to play dbd as survivor) and it might outright even discourage them from playing altogether if they run around and get hooked to death off the bat because they don’t know how that style works yet.
your opinions are 100% valid in terms of a solo scared new player. someone worried about being spotted or killed and wanting to enjoy hiding from a heartbeat and pretending to be a rock or a crate or whatever it is.
in terms of making recommendations to a new player, it's hard to suggest that as the best way to have fun in the game and be able to progress quicker and easier.
i'm not sure i would ever want to invite new players to play with me and say "don't worry, whenever you get scared, just hide really good and try to fix yourself up.. everything's gonna be okay.." i don't think of that as being very fun for anyone. you can still get the same rushes and thrills and even better ones if you actually do things.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662077#Comment_662077
The definition you just provided still has Goal be synonymous with win condition.
In otherwords asking what the goal of a trial in DBD is the same as asking what the win condition in a trial in DBD is.
Both are to escape.
You can also describe the goal of specific steps, but that isn't the goal of a trial, it's the goal of something within a trial. Just like how you can have a mini-game which has a win condition in of itself without that being the win condition of the main game.
For example you can win a chase as a survivor by escaping the chase and you lose the chase by getting hit.
That chase has a win condition separate from the win condition of the game as a whole. It's just a matter of scale.
In this case the scale was established to be the game as a whole with respect to the survivors. The next paragraph then establishes the goal of the game as a whole for the Killer.
i feel like you are the one who keeps choosing to swap out the word "goal" with your term "win condition".
we have established dead by daylight as a casual game. they have not specifically stated a "win condition", hence the OP.
casual games don't always have "win conditions".
again to nutshell: no official leaderboard, no official advanced stats, no official competitions, no way to keep people from cheating, etc.
just because a bunch of people decide to make up "win conditions" to suit their own likings, doesn't make them actual or official "win conditions".
it feels like i've been putting a lot of effort in to make sure newer players that happen upon this post get enough information to not necessarily take your opinions as factual and i feel i have done a more than sufficient job of that. at this point i'm done on this topic.
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@knell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662010#Comment_662010
what you are describing could be and is actually an "ending condition" that ends the match. once all survivors have been dealt with, whether sacrificed or escaped, the "ending condition" has been met.
There are no mention of any "ending condition" in that screenshot of the tutorial that @NuclearBurrito has posted earlier. It states that "The Survivors' goal is to escape the trial."
If a goal of a game is to get the most victory points, then you win if you have the most victory points.
If a goal of a game is to get to location X before any other players, then you win if you get to that location before any other players.
If a goal of a game is to capture your opponent's piece X, then you win when you captured your opponent's piece X.
If a goal of a game is to be the last player standing, then you win if you are the last player standing.
So...
If the goal is to escape the trial... hmmm.
you know what's funny? you're trying to argue this point now about "goals" being "winning", when "goals" are actually just "milestones to complete".
first let's consult google for the definition of goal so we can make sure we're all on the same page:
the object of a person's ambition or effort; an aim or desired result."going to law school has become the most important goal in his life"
synonyms:aim, objective, object, grail, holy grail, end, target, design, desire, desired result, intention, intent, plan, purpose, idea, point, object of the exercise;
in the example sentence, someone decided going to law school was the most important goal in his life. if that guy finishes law school, he has obtained his "goal", but that doesn't make him a "winner". he still needs to now utilize what he learned there to make something out of himself.
if i set a goal to stop smoking and achieve it, that doesn't make me a "winner", it makes me someone who accomplished a "goal".
if i am a sports player who scores a "goal", that is only one tiny piece of an entire game. both sides are able to achieve the "goal" numerous times, and ultimately one of them will become a "winner", but not because they reached a "goal".
if you see a trainer or a doctor or someone of any professional sort who advises you to make a goal and work towards achieving it, once you achieve it you are not declared a "winner", you are given another "goal".
the fact of the matter is, we can all walk around as much as we want declaring ourselves "winners" for whatever reason we decide to, but, it takes other people to actually declare you a "winner".
please stop trying to use a general "goal" as a valid definition of "winning".
thanks.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661395#Comment_661395
"what if you played super good the whole game and get catched at the end and hardcamped for a safety pip by the killer?"
If your team wins, congrats you don't depip. If your team loses, well, you lost, no?
"And for Killers, no kill/one kill depip; one kill and a few hooks/two kill blackpip and so on, but what if you are not focusing, every survivor is on third hook and everybody escapes?"
Did you kill anyone? No? Well, then.
My solution would be to use the emblem system for BONUS points that may allow someone to score an upgrade to whatever their score would have been. Were you about to black pip but did rather well? Now you pip instead. Were you going to depip because you lost but played very well? Now you avoid the penalty of depipping.
i only have to play super good for about 3 minutes to ensure i safety-pip. it takes me very little more to turn that safety pip into a pip. i regularly die first, with my "team" still having 4 or even 5 gens left to do, and almost always have a pip at that time, or just barely missed pipping.
as killer, i can easily pip without sacrificing anyone if i instead dominate. i can let everyone walk out of the exit gates at the end of the match and all 5 players in the game can pip, most can even double-pip.
the arguments you are attempting are simply flawed arguments that are reflective of your play style.
@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662043#Comment_662043
It means each Survivor is contributing a different specialty for the overall good of the team. The fact that the system does not properly recognize that at times shows me that the system is flawed.
"for you to gain rank, you are intended to demonstrate qualities in multiple areas"
I believe that to gain rank, one should win. The way almost every other game does it.
this game, even tho being a team game, was designed to not include communication.
what does that mean? that means they don't want you to know what is going on in other areas if you are not involved.
it means (and especially in solo queue) you have to be able to adapt and react and get things done in order to be a decent player.
it does not mean that you can add communication and assign each member a task and compete as a specialized unit in order to succeed.
what you think of as success a lot of people consider a loop hole that degrades the quality of the gaming experiences for everyone involved.
while i may enjoy looping, i also love rescuing, breaking camps, getting coop, getting altruism, etc. and when i load into a game i expect to get my opportunities to to at least a little bit of all of it.. just because you may not have the ability to fill in and help doesn't mean i should get the b/s end of the stick and be forced to miss out on 60%+ of the things that need to be done in a trial.
factor that with you not having the ability to perform better than you do and my ability to perform in a manner for optimal fun is also severely crippled, taking a good portion of the fun out of the game.
it's one thing if i choose to carry you. it's something completely different for you to think i have to carry you.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662019#Comment_662019
A Survivor keeping the Killer sufficiently distracted such that their teammates can get the gens done is contributing to the success of the team.
A Survivor powering through gens ASAP so the distraction is not at risk for a needlessly long time is also contributing to the success of the team.
Doing those things successfully and escaping should reward you thusly. If it does not, that is a shortcoming of the system in my eyes.
if each person only does a particular part of the tasks that need to be done, that means they are lacking drastically on the other parts.
there are 4 scoring categories. if you only get to max 1 or 2 of them in an entire match, you are not demonstrating enough skill to warrant gaining rank.
if you are a gen jockey, you are useless to me in a red rank game, or any other game for that matter, because there is more to the game than doing gens.
if you are a looper that doesn't do anything else in the game, you are not very useful to me because i too need to loop at times, and you are probably going to be trying to get in the middle of my loops for whatever reason, if not just hanging out nearby doing nothing.
for you to gain rank, you are intended to demonstrate qualities in multiple areas, hence the score capping per category. you can only do so much in each category before you are capped, your signal to do some other things too because we understand you were sufficient in this particular category.
if you are a survivor that for whatever reason does not regularly get hooked, you are taking away 25% minimum of your teammates' possible scores and ensuring others will be completely dead before the end of the game for no reason. if multiple teammates do it, even though you think you're super dope at getting your irridescent unbroken emblem, you are still lacking the experience necessary to make you a vital teammate in lower ranks and providing your teammates and killer with an overall boring mundane gaming experience at best.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661903#Comment_661903
The thing is that those things you allege are not examples of the current system's shortcomings ARE examples of such in my eyes.
we are all allowed to have different opinions. perhaps if you were more specific i could understand better your points, but i can't really say you're being descriptive enough for me to even follow what you're trying to state.
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lets see if we can type this again in a manner that they surely can't flag for any reason whatsoever.
nobody has ever stated that "surviving" a trial is "winning" anything other than the few of you guys trying to argue it. you say that since you "survived" you "won" by completing a "winning condition" that doesn't exist except that you seem to think it does.
what you are describing could be and is actually an "ending condition" that ends the match. once all survivors have been dealt with, whether sacrificed or escaped, the "ending condition" has been met.
we are then presented with the scoreboard to see how everyone did. this lets you know that the game is in fact over.
never were you declared a "winner" of any kind for any reason, other than you felt like you were a "winner" because you happened to "survive" the trial that has now "ended".
there is not an argument that can be made that would convince anyone who actually plays and understands the game that what you did was "win" anything by completing some fabled "winning condition".
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lol.. someone flagged my post for pointing out that you have completely made up the word "winning" to describe declaring you as "survived" at the completion of a game?
lul
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@knell said:
Seems like @NuclearBurrito and @Fibijean get it.
The pipping system simply determines how well you did in a match, which in turn, then is suppose to match you with people in a similar skill level. It has nothing to do with the winning conditions.
The idea that you have to "play well" to win in a game should be debunked. There are plenty of games where active players' skills don't determine the outcome of the game.
For example, let's say you are playing Tetris against your friend. You are hitting 4-line Tetrises and multiple T-Spins. Your friend is clearing out few lines at a time, simply making sure he isn't topping out. Because you were building up the columns for a bigger multi-clear and your friend hit a small combo at the right time at the end, you top out. Who won? You, who displayed more skills, made more complicated moves, have tens of thousands more score points overall? Or your friend who only understands the basics, and have much less points, but who made you top over most likely due to luck? The game is very clear on this.
Let's also take a game of Werewolf, for example. A complete-newbie Werewolf who stays silent all game could still win, whether it is due to the other more experienced Werewolf bluffing his butt off, or simply due to luck and never being picked by the Villagers.
So how can a Survivor survive and still depip? It simply means that you fulfilled the winning condition without having to display any type of skill, or if you did, it was very minimal. Of course, this (not having done much in the match) also means that you probably shouldn't be placed in that skill level setting, so if the matchmaking is functioning correctly, you should be placed with your less skilled peers by the pipping system. The opposite (Survivor dying and yet still pipping) holds true, in a similar manner where you failed to fulfill the winning condition, but displayed enough skill to be pushed into a setting with others will higher skill level to have a more even match. That's all it is.
Ultimately, even without the pipping system, Dead by Daylight will still be Dead by Daylight. I wouldn't even notice a difference in the gameplay if it were made invisible. Without Escaping or Sacrifices though, this game wouldn't be Dead by Daylight.
i like how you guys keep talking about this "winning condition" thing that is literally something you guys pulled out of your butts..
there isn't a "winning condition", period. the "goal" or "objective" to escape doesn't ever state or dictate or declare you a "winner".. it declares you "survived" at the end of the event, and that's all.
you guys are applying the term "winning" to it in a very weird way and there's only a very few bad players that are ever going to agree with you..
there is no argument that can be used for you to convince players that actually play and understand the game that what you are describing is "winning" anything..
what you are doing is being frightened and afraid and greedy and boring and who knows what other descriptive terms, and all of that is perfectly okay for you, but one thing we all do know for a fact is that "winning" or "winner" is not a descriptive term that fits you guys :)
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661879#Comment_661879
Depends on what a gaming session is for people.
I can get around 200 or 300 k on average.
Sometimes I just do the daily and leave because life. Sometimes I have an entire day free.
fair enough..
it takes me about 15-20 survivor games to get 1 million bloodpoints on average. 3-6 games per hour, let's be generous and call it 4h, so say 500k every 2 hours is pretty easy..
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661267#Comment_661267
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661275#Comment_661275
It's quite difficult to cut out a win.
I mean for survivors it's escaping, but what if you played super good the whole game and get catched at the end and hardcamped for a safety pip by the killer?
And for Killers, no kill/one kill depip; one kill and a few hooks/two kill blackpip and so on, but what if you are not focusing, every survivor is on third hook and everybody escapes?
Maybe a system with like ~10 points you loose/win after a match, based on multiple factors, are added, if you escape/kill three or more people and taken, if you don't survive/ don't kill three or more people.
The problem of survivors would be solved. You play very good, but you can't survive at the end? You loose 6 points, but next game you'll probably gonna win 14 points if you keep playing that good. Same eith the killer problem.
you mention a 10 point system..
that's very near what the rank system actually is.
with the exception of rank 1, other ranks consist of 3,4, or 5 pips. losing 1 game if you are rank 1 drops you back to rank 2, but from there you have 4 more chances or "points" if you will that you have to lose before you will see rank 3. if within the next 4 games that cause pip numbers to change you're averaging a gain of pips, you'll never see rank 3. If you average a loss of pips over those next 4 games, you're on your way to, if not at rank 3.
only rank 1 does a single pip lost drop you to the previous rank.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661063#Comment_661063
I find it strange that you claim the ranking system is an indication of how well you did in a trial, only for you to start listing ways it is not a good indication of that.
@TAG i believe you misread something somewhere.
i have not listed any ways the ranking system is not a good indication of how well you did in a trial at all.
not going to cut and paste an entire post but if you read again you'll see me state in a pretty clear fashion that running from a killer for an entire match should not provide you with rank, and it does not.
i also said simply doing gens and leaving ASAP while letting someone else do all of the chasing should not provide you with rank, and it does not.
it is IMO quite a bit too easy to obtain rank by doing very little if you stay alive long enough at the cost of your team, and that is one place where ranking indication becomes broken, but only due to a loophole and a lot of people crying back in the day. watching everyone die should only provide rank to a killer, or perhaps a survivor that literally went thru hell and earned it, not to someone who just squatted next to things long enough to see everyone die.
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is it really that rare for people to get 1 million bp minimum ez per gaming session?
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i like going against spirits. i like going against nurses. i like going against billies.
to answer your question, sometimes you will get a trend in killers for any number of reasons. maybe people saw someone else play nurse earlier and it made people want to play nurse. maybe the game assigned a bunch of people spirit dailies. maybe you're just getting super unlucky and happening to land in a bunch of spirit lobbies. it could also be that people feel their best way to deal with whoever is in that lobby would be to play one particular killer for whatever reason.
truth is this game is based on luck. different people in the same game at the same time will have very different experiences. if you keep getting faced by your least favorite killer, really all anyone can say is "unlucky.."
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661664#Comment_661664
Dude what the hell are you talking about.
Eyeball perks are very good for new players. Deja Vu shows them where gens are so they can learn how gens spawn and so they can never have a situation where they can't find a gen. Dark Sense is like a worse version of Alert, but given that new players have no idea how to track a killer any sort of aura reading on the killer will help immensely.
Also having Kindred is not going to guarantee you get saved. Your chances are better but I've still seen instances where people were left on a hook to die when they had Kindred. WGLF however will almost guarantee you get saved. Like I said I'd rather die on my third hook from a semi-farming session where we trade hooks than die on first hook because everyone was too scared to make a save and/or had no incentive to do so.
A good chunk of the free perks are very good for new players. They help them with some of the things they need most. Once you get better at the game they aren't going to help as much.
i'm not sure why you're asking me what i'm talking about.. i believe i was very clear in my breakdowns.
deja vu does not help players "learn how gens spawn". IMO, what you are describing is a very big part of the problem with new (and current) players.
when new players come and ask people how to play the game, people respond with "just run deja vu" or "just run kindred" instead of explaining to them simply what a map tile is.
it's a portion of the map, plain and easy. you can visually begin to see over a number of games the same tiles but in different places. most map tiles could possibly have a generator. if you have visited a tile and didnt find a generator, proceed to the next tile and keep looking, they're not hard to spot.
the issues in finding the generators is when they're trying to play overly safe due to information they don't understand. if they see a killer is in a certain direction and they go the other way maintaining their "stealth", there's a good chance they're going AWAY from the generators that need to be done and TOWARDS a portion of map that is totally complete.
oh look, i just summed up everything anyone could ever learn from both deja vu and dark sense in 3 very short sentences that are perfectly clear and explain very well to someone who is new why they should never run eyeball perks, unless of course the main idea is to keep getting more and more new teammates who understand this game as a last man standing, king of the hill type game, in which case f the new guys, let them learn the hard way like everyone else attempted to but probably never learned anything.. :)