Comments

• @thesuicidefox said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661011#Comment_661011

  Except WGLF was changed to stop farming. Now that it requires a safe rescue it actually teaches you good habits, like saving someone such that they don't get caught right after the save.

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661022#Comment_661022

  If you have played the game for a while you might know when to run around the map. If you just started the perk teaches you to crouch walk everywhere.

  And sorry but even good players know that UE is a wasted perk slot. It just does nothing beneficial you can't already do yourself (hide from the killer). It has a few specific uses but that's it.

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661014#Comment_661014

  Eyball perks are garbo... for experience players. For newbies though they can actually make a huge difference. Kindred, Deja Vu, Dark Sense... all the perks are FREE and give the survivor information that can help them learn the game and get better.

  "Eyball perks are garbo... for experience players. For newbies though they can actually make a huge difference. Kindred, Deja Vu, Dark Sense... all the perks are FREE and give the survivor information that can help them learn the game and get better."

  i'm sorry but no.. the only eyeball perk that is even remotely useful is kindred, but it only is useful if you are trying to convince worthless teammates to maybe feel bad enough to come get you from the hook. people will tell you constantly (as they tell me) "if you don't want to get left on a hook, bring Kindred, problem solved. to that i ask why they think it's okay for me to have to bring an extra perk for them to maybe convince them to play the game if it feels like it's safe enough..

  if you are legitimately talking about new players, i think we have enough current players that are super bad & the last thing i would ever want to do is "encourage" them to get their feet wet in a manner that encourages them follow in the footsteps of the lousy.

  the game is very easy to play when you don't rely too heavily on information you're not supposed to have.

  deja vu shows you 3 closest gens when a gen is started.. do you not consider it to be better if the survivor gets used to exploring the map and locating? focusing them toward the generators and giving them a direction of where to go immediately now that you finished this one lowers their likeliness of looking, exploring, and learning and turns the experience into one that's more like a race where much information and experience is just totally lost on the individual.

  dark sense shows where the killer is when you pop a gen, essentially saying "don't run that way and you're good.." i don't need to be told what areas to avoid, as it is much better being able to see with your eyes what is going on. if i'm encouraged to avoid the killer completely, i eternally get freaked out when the killer is nearby.

  too much emphasis is placed on the avoidance of the killer (in real world experience) and not enough information is given letting people know that avoiding the killer takes a combination of a little bit of what you hear and a whole lot of what you see.. it's totally okay to be right next to the killer working on a generator.. you get way more points and you get to watch other people do the looping and the taking of hits and it's a super dope show you would have missed if you weren't there to actually see it..

  when people bring kindred they reveal the location of the killer to other survivors. other survivors will use this information as confirmation whenever possible that they are off-the-hook and don't need to go rescue you because they can see the killer is kinda over there still a little bit, kinda, maybe.. guess we'll keep working on the gens and say "sorry he camped you" at the end.. people need to understand that not only is camping part of the game, but so is BREAKING A CAMP, something you will never be able to do while running and hiding from the information you receive from eyeball or other general-freak-out perks..

  giving a person perks to make them even more scared than they need to be is never a good idea, period, making eyeball perks complete garbage and, in essence, a whammy.

  in David King is the best survivor to start with CHANGE MY MIND Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• they went out of their way to make sure mending was not considered a healing action.

  deep wound is more than an injury, it's a special injury that can't be healed normally.

  it is used to block the ability to use insta-heals. you also can not use a medkit or a perk that would speed up the mending. it's a task that has to be performed in order to get back to a status where you can be healed.

  if it were a healing action and classified as such, they would have to make healing items work on it again, e.g. allow someone to be insta-healed from deep wound to at least the injured state. a needle on a deep wounded person would bring them back to full health, just like original borrowed time before they reworked it into "deep wound".

  so essentially this thread is asking the devs to reconsider something they put a lot of thought into in an effort to also benefit the killer into knowing exactly where someone mending is standing, on top of it's current nerfing of insta-heals.

  while you may think it'd be nice if a survivor had to then run super far away and heal because you blocked their ability to instaheal, i think they did a pretty good job so far in figuring out why they shouldn't do that because it's not the intention of the perk. deep wound is not a locating status unless the survivor fails to mend, and even then the location alert is very brief and easy to miss, not persistent to make sure the killer can find the person who ran away with the deep wound..

  in Please can you just let nurses work with mending? Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @NoShinyPony i never said one way was not okay, i said in my opinion, i am not happy when people do that. i respect that you are okay with it.

  i understand that i can't force my views upon my team, and you must understand that you can't force your views on me. as i've been saying from the beginning it's incompatible play styles that keeps us from being compatible teammates. not a big deal.

  it's actually desired in the game because the incompatibilities between you guys and me end up making the killer's job easier. your actions encourage me to not try very hard to stay alive for very long. my play style gets you upset because you see that i am not attempting to stay alive very long.

  in my opinion, neither of us is wrong, we're just both playing a different game simultaneously within the same trial, which depletes the maximum possible outcomes for both sides. you guys let me down, i let you down, and we both get to move into the future as individuals in search of players that "know how to play the game" somewhat disappointed about the previous round.

  i think the major difference is my disappointment is very minimal because you didn't have much of an effect on me for very long. your disappointment in me persists because i inflicted hard times upon you by not buying you as much time as i possibly could or whatever.. i move on thinking "maybe this will be a better group of survivors" while your thought moving forward is "i hope these guys don't suck"..

  it's a positivism vs negativity thing at that point

  in The Ranking System Needs To Be Changed Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @NoShinyPony said:

  @chieftaco In the end, the killer decides who is getting chased. Teammates can definitly jump in and try to take the killer away from the guy who is getting chased, but the killer has the last word.

  However, doing gens is boring. I don't mind if others do gens while I get chased by the killer. I don't feel like I got robbed of gen points. I play because I want to have fun, not because I want to climb ranks for which I don't get any kind of reward. (This might change if rank rewards got introduced.)

  i don't play to climb ranks, i also play for fun. in playing for fun, i still want to score very highly. what you are considering important for climbing ranks is actually important because it represents 3 scoring categories..

  if i am getting chased for the entire game, i can max boldness for 8k bloodpoints. this happens pretty quickly. since the chase continues the entire game, i get no cooperative actions, no objective, no altruism.. at best i get a little bit of survival. if i escape and get 5k for survival, i still am missing more than 50% of my score..

  i like high scoring games because they are fun. i am not a fan of games where my abilities to score are crippled by my teammates. you say the killer decides in the end who is getting chased, and to that i say to you that i break tunnels all of the time.. not every time i try to break the tunnel do i succeed, but most of the time i do.

  sometimes that requires me to physically block the killer's path and allow my teammate to make some distance and break LOS. sometimes it requires me to go on a hook, and this should be okay because it's my turn. i do it willingly to provide my teammates with their altruism and benevolence. it is also a great way to get an overview of what your team is doing, and to easily locate a friend to work on things with (when they come pull you down).

  ultimately, saying or "accepting" that you can't do anything to help your teammate is something that just isn't true. it's a comfort people tell themselves to help them feel better for not helping. until a player actually understands their role in the game as being a team member role, i personally don't consider them good at anything because they aren't demonstrating any actual skill.

  you say "i hid well"? i say "that's why everyone safety-pipped or de-pipped.."

  you say "i did 5 gens" i say "you probably were maxed after 2.."

  you say "i didn't get downed or hooked"? i say "well it's a good thing nobody wanted any points this round.."

  you say "we all survived" i say "i hope you had fun, but nah, i don't want to play another game with you.. i'm good.."

  in The Ranking System Needs To Be Changed Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @chieftaco said:

  if you're trying to maximize blood point gains, as silly as this may sound to new and experienced players alike, understand that this is the way:

  play survivor.. solo..

  spend every second you are alive in a game doing something that gives you blood points. don't go hide every time you hear a heartbeat.

  look for other players to do cooperative actions with, even tho some think it's bad..

  when you get killed, and you will most games, do not spectate. just start a new game.

  explanation:

  you are not going to win every match, you just aren't. especially being new and not having many perks. the longer you are in a match, the less points you are making. the more safely you play, the less time you're spending getting points, and the more time you are going to be alive, hoping for a whopping 5-7k payout at the end.

  struggling on hook for 60 seconds gives you a maximum of 892 blood points, not even 1000. you can get 1000 blood points for breaking a totem in the next game. the minute you spend struggling on the hook can get you to your next game that much faster. more games per hour = more points earned per hour..

  newer killers with or without BBQ may have issues finding people, getting hits & hooks, etc. and the killer is the one who has to stay in the game until all 4 survivors are settled in some way, either dead or escaped.

  you can also use survivor perks straight away to help you gain points quicker. dwight would be a good survivor to start with because you can immediately equip Prove Thyself for up to 100% bonus bp for all cooperative actions. david's we're gonna live forever perk is another great perk for bloodpoint gains, but it depends on how many save unhooks and protection hits you can take, and that won't be very many in the beginning.

  good luck out there in the fog! go get paid!

  to be fair i just noticed that i failed to mention something very important when i posted this.. the corresponding section should read:

  when you reach stage 2 on first hook, or it becomes clear that your teammates will most likely not save you (safely), struggling on hook for 60 seconds gives you a maximum of 892 blood points, not even 1000. you can get 1000 blood points for breaking a totem in the next game. the minute you spend struggling on the hook can get you to your next game that much faster. more games per hour = more points earned per hour..

  in Finding it hard to keep playing Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• 
  

  @RoKrueger said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660691#Comment_660691

  "struggling on hook for 60 seconds gives you a maximum of 892 blood points, not even 1000. you can get 1000 blood points for breaking a totem in the next game. the minute you spend struggling on the hook can get you to your next game that much faster. more games per hour = more points earned per hour"

  I hope more survivors start to realise that, it would make my killer games easier.

  You killers are so stresses out. I set my objective to make sure no survivor escapes the match by any means necesary, no to rank up.

  I am happy as long as the Entity or myself bathe in their blood. If in the end the Entity is displeased with my methods, I could not care less.

  and you totally have the right to do that @RoKrueger .. lucky for me, i'd be far from your game pretty quickly and easily and you can dance in my blood or whatever you guys like doing while i go play a game that's much better all around :) no worries man! the point is getting the bloodpoints you as a dead by daylight player need in order to buy things..

  your rather odd comments only reinforce my statements about moving on from weird games if you're not able to score.. why would i waste even 1 minute hiding from someone like you? you have dancing or bathing or whatever that you want to do. as soon as i decide your game isn't one worth wasting any more time in i can find my way to a hook and let the other guys worry about trying to pinch bp gains off of you before you touch yourself or whatever with their stuff..

  if anything, i hope we get a future survivor perk that will allow me to put myself up on the hook for you so you don't have to trouble yourself (or possibly leave me on the ground for a long time to watch you doing whatever you're doing to yourself)..

  lol :)

  in Finding it hard to keep playing Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• devour hope is a totem perk..

  it will work best when you can play the game yet still protect the totem..

  if you can not play the game and protect the totem, it will last you as long as it takes survivors to discover and break it..

  it will offer you benefits if it goes unfound, or if survivors are of the type that don't break totems just in case it may be haunted ground. in the latter case, as soon as DH is exposed to survivors, they will go straight to it and break it as soon as possible, whatever the cost, because they have to. this is your chance to utilize it to down them.

  any other usage of devour hope is some special use case that just might not work for you..

  just because you may pair it with thrill to know when someone's working on it (if that's what you try) doesn't really help much because then you may end up guarding the wrong totem..

  in Devour nope Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @TrueLegend said:

  Hello, I would like to start by saying I have been playing this game for a while now (around 3 years) and have 1000 hours in game, so I'm not just a new player salty about losing. I am currently a rank 3 survivor and rank 5 killer so I play both, but I will focus on survivor.

  First, when I say lose I mean not pip, so either depip or black pip is losing as you don't progress in your rank at all.

  Lets try to picture a few situations:

  first: The killer saw you at the beginning of the game and chased you for 5 generators. You lose. You didn't do any generators and you didn't heal anyone because the killer never hit any survivors.

  second: The killer is chasing someone since the beginning of the game untill everyone escapes and never downs them. The smart thing to do is to do the generators but that will result in you losing too.

  Now these two situations are rather rare but they could happen in different ways that are more common, for example if the killer focuses on 2 survivors and they run him around while you are in the same situation. Now it's true that the killer will probably lose aswell but the question is if the survivors have a choice or do they have to suffer the consequences of the killers actions, and they do.

  third: A survivor is getting tunneled. Again, it hurts the killer too, but it's the killer's choice and the survivor has no say and he loses no matter what he does. Most survivors can't run a killer 5 gens and if they get tunneled they pretty much lose. If they're good they will run him untill they probably max on boldness but that's as much as they can do. They lose.

  fourth: Survivors disconnect. This critically hurts the rest of the survivors and reduces their chances of escaping and pipping greatly.

  Also this is a whole subject of discussion of it's own but I don't want to get too much into it. I am talking about the fact that the emblems counter each other. You can't run a killer and do enough generators and perform alturistic actions as much as required for iridecent.

  If you ask me the current system is an okay base for a ranking system, but there's a lot to think about. You need to think about different types of situations and make sure everything is fair and balanced. It shouldn't be as simple as do everything and pip or don't.

  Tell me if you agree it should be changed or not, or if you disagree and share why :)

  Thansk for reading.

  unfortunately the ranking system imo is pretty good in most aspects. it is an indication of how well you did in a trial.

  if you are getting chased for an entire match, you may feel like you did super good, but the truth is you added to the match being a failure. just because you can run a killer for an entire match doesn't mean you should.

  just because you can rush generators and doors and run out doesn't mean you should. these things don't provide you with rank because you're not actually playing the game when you do it. everyone suffers, yet for some reason everyone continues to do it and claim that they're really really good and there's a broken system there not giving them credit for what they have earned..

  the truth is you haven't earned anything. if i'm on your team when this happens i'm thoroughly upset with you guys. i know at the point where you guys run out of the door that i'm going to depip if i leave, so i have to stay alone and go look for chests & totems and maximize the points i can get until the end of EGC in hopes of actually achieving at least a safety pip.

  @NoShinyPony said:

  I don't really disagree, but are you up-to-date with how the Emblems work? You know that you get points for gens + totems being done while you get chased?

  (Also, pipping for survivors is currently too easy. It was too difficult for a short while, but the devs made it easier and easier again so that we find ourselves in a situation where everybody who plays a lot is red rank. I see red rank survivors who run in a straight line from a killer, without any attempt at looping/juking, going down within 10 seconds.)

  i agree that pipping is way too easy in some cases. i do not agree that it's okay to perform like this in game because you get points for gens & totems being done while you get chased.. it's not enough, and you guys that robbed me of all objective and cooperative points and didn't take your turns getting chased &/or hooked to try to give me a chance to get a few points are just being scared little b's in reality that don't want to get out there and handle the business. at least you do the gens you tell yourself tho, and then you wonder why the other people don't appreciate your effort when it's all said & done..

  just because someone is a good runner doesn't mean they should be carrying everyone else without some interference to buy them a chance to do other things during the match.

  in The Ranking System Needs To Be Changed Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• 
  

  @Mochan said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660925#Comment_660925

  Just because you use Urban Evasion, doesn't mean you don't know how to run around the map.

  What kind of silly thinking is that?

  I have a 1000 hours and I still use Urban Evasion. I use it to EVADE not to crabwalk around the map. I know when to run and when to sneak.

  I'm sorry it was hard for you, but there are people who didn't have that problem with UE and learned how to play properly within the first 50 hours even with Urban.

  It's funny how you talk about how WGLF objectively encourages good habits, that's just wrong, and certainly it wasn't true back when WGLF wasn't nerfed to only work on safe unhooks. Today it's better after nerf, but the perk still tempts you to dive save, or do protection hits when you shouldn't just to get stacks.

  Just like you were able to learn good habits with WGLF, there are people who learn good habits with Urban Evasion. A lot of people legitimately use it to juke and stealth, not to crabwalk all over.

  i don't think someone with 1000 hours urban evading needs to be calling anyone silly for having an opinion or any other reason.

  we have already considered the perk from the aspect of a new survivor and multiple people have agreed that it encourages bad habits. urban evasion is fun to play with sometimes, nothing more. people who rely on urban evasion just look silly crab walking everywhere even if it's only now and then when they're doing it.

  it does provide a user with an ability that is useful for not being detected as easily. users that are crouched are not as easily seen at a distance as players that are standing upright, depending on where they are standing or crouching.

  people can crouch without urban evasion. the only thing urban evasion actually provides differently is it gives them the ability to maneuver from one place to another a bit quicker at a crouching height.

  as much as you want to call this a mandatory perk for "the time you need to sneak", it really doesn't make sense. for every time you are able to crabwalk out of a situation, a hundred people do it without crabwalking, making it just ultimately a silly perk..

  in David King is the best survivor to start with CHANGE MY MIND Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @thesuicidefox said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660989#Comment_660989

  "You have better chances of getting people to do gens than make saves."

  Which is why you want a perk to encourage survivors to make saves. WGLF does that.

  As for the 3 tokens thing, I was making the point that it can happen. And in all likelihood, if the WGLF guy is rushing the save they will probably go down during the unhook which is an extra token.

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660991#Comment_660991

  So bring 2 perks when you could just bring an item that does it all better anyway? Sorry no. Those 2 perk slots would be better served with stuff to help them learn the game like Deja Vu or Premonition. Granted new players won't have much to work with anyway, it's still silly to use 2 perks when an item is superior.

  "In that case, nobody will do any gen." Nobody does gens at low ranks anyway. So would you rather die on your first hook and get nothing, or die on your third hook and get a ton of BP from WGLF and rescues?

  "served with stuff to help them learn the game like Deja Vu or Premonition. "

  please don't ever say things like this in reference to being good in any manner.

  just don't.

  eyeball perks are garbage.. they're whammies, period.

  as for premonition, please allow me to nutshell it for you:

  some more advanced users may not use it like this (maybe??), but definitely for new players:

  once every XX seconds, if the killer is within range, you hear a noise and see a blinking thing. this tells you the killer is "coming" so you should stop what you are doing immediately and go find somewhere to hide.. you stay there until there is no more heartbeat and then you creep out and slowly make your way back to what you were doing, but then PREMONITION goes off and the killer is "coming" so you better just stop, turn around, and go hide..

  when we say the killer is "coming", of course we mean the killer is kinda over in maybe that direction somewhat, at an angle maybe? also, guess what.. the killer is always kinda over in maybe that direction somewhere within every XX seconds anyway.. this doesn't mean he is actually "coming", nor that it would ever be a good idea to stop what you're doing and slowly move away to hide.

  more likely than not, the killer is chasing me not far from you and everything is good.. keep doing what you're doing, get your bonus BP for doing it so closely within the terror radius..

  a much better alternative (and keep in mind this whole post is about a new player starting the game) would be spine chill. it has no cooldown so it works all of the time. it encourages people to keep doing what they're doing while within the terror radius by offering multiple indicators. the first indicator lets you know when the killer is within a certain range, but it also rewards you with an action speed boost if you keep working on what you are working on.

  a second indicator lets you know when the killer is looking at you. if it remains lit, the killer is coming directly towards you (or standing still looking in your direction for some reason). a third indicator appears to let you know its time to get the hell outta there immediately..

  best of all: these 3 indicators show up and are easiest to see if you are performing an action, right above and integrated to the action's progress bar, so it's in your best interest to keep working on something in order to see what's happening..

  oh yeah.. and did we mention that it too is a perk that is automatically unlocked for everyone?

  in David King is the best survivor to start with CHANGE MY MIND Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• 
  

  @Marcus said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660867#Comment_660867

  Every perk can teach you bad habits IMO.

  WGLF can teach you to prioritize saves over gens and literally to fight with each other for the saves, so you can get your stacks. Also, new players won't understand what safe unhooks means, so they might still farm their teammates.

  Dead Hard will teach you at low ranks that if you use it just when the killer is behind you, he will miss no matter what, so when you will reach high ranks, you will start to believe that Dead Hard is useless, because killers don't fall for it there. Also, Dead Hard won't help you even if the killer miss the swing, because they catch up in 2 seconds.

  New survivors walk all the match, so that's why Sprint Burst is good for them, to get a head start if the killer find them. After survivors learn how to run tiles, but will probably want to replace SB, but untill then, this perk can help them to put distance between them and the killer. SB is also very good against Wraith and Billy, pretty common killers in low ranks. DH is serve you no purpose if you get instant downed.

  Also, Adrenaline doesn't teach you to not heal the whole match, I see plenty of survivors healing even if they run Adrenaline. And the fact that Adrenaline lets you to rush the last gen even injured is a good thing. It teachs you to have more balls in these situational, when there is 1 gen to be completed and you are injured.

  Healing with Self Care isn't too slow if you combine it with Botany Knowledge. @thesuicidefox keep saying Medkits are better, but Medkits will be a very limited source for new players, they won't have many of them and they might want to run other items as well. Nowhere in the description of the perk is said "you need to run in a corner of the map to be able to heal", new players need to learn when and where to use Self Care. Of course, they can give up on it later, but for a new player it's still a good perk.

  post confused me a bit, at first sounding like you were agreeing with everything i said but as if i said the opposite. i see the topic now..

  yes a lot of perks can teach bad habits, agreed. the question is what is the best, not what does certain people like the most. fact of the matter is, SB is actually a garbo perk since exhaustion nerfs and even before, but especially since. it can help new players get away from billy or bing bong, true, but i get away from billies and bing-bongs all day every day just by running.. most of the time just by running in a circle.. no exhaustion perks necessary..

  sprint burst gives you reason to think that running is something you do on special occasions, and idea is that's wrong.. think about how people play the game and what people complain about the most: gen rushing.. keyword here being RUSHING, not tiptoe silently from gen to gen and turn it on, but get there as fast as you can and get stuff done because lives are at stake.. the more slow movement, the more people that end up dead, it's just a fact.

  when i was new my friends used to laugh at me so hard for saving my sprint burst, & back then i didn't understand why, thought they were just joshing me, but now i totally understand. the more time it takes you to get where you are going and start doing something useful the less of anything that is actually happening in the game and again, the more people die by the end of the game..

  lets say noed pops at the end of a round and you're on a hook.. 3 SB users gonna creepy-crawl around the map looking for a totem if you're even that lucky, cuz they gotta save their sprint burst in case stuff goes down.. everything takes way longer and everyone dies and SB users comfortably say "sorry.. i couldnt do anything for you friend" when in reality the only reason they couldn't do anything is they were trying to save a 3s speed boost :)

  SB is a silly perk and people that save it are also playing in a very silly fashion causing death and destruction everywhere without even understanding that that's what they are doing.

  back to dwight, you get location of other survivors in the area, constant also, no cooldown. you get the same or better "encouragement" to work together and get that gen done that you mentioned users with adrenaline getting, and same faster heals you say claudette delivers by equipping leader. the only missing perk is an exhaustion perk, which is never more than a crutch anyway.

  as @thesuicidefox said it's best to just jump on in there and learn how to constantly stay running. if you are not running and a killer is coming towards you, the killer is closing distance.. if you are saving your SB until the killer is close so you can SB away gleefully, that is a bad habit to develop, period.

  understanding that i am not a brand new player doesn't make the fact that the only time in game i'm not holding shift is when i'm on a hook irrelevant to the discussion. running is an important aspect of the game.. it's one of a very limited set of input buttons.. not using it until you absolutely need to isn't the best or even an ideal concept to pass down to a new player.

  in David King is the best survivor to start with CHANGE MY MIND Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @TrueKn1ghtmar3 said:

  I think if any the newest girl survivor will be the best for new players, why?

  Her first perk (the one where you heal in the locker) will help new players learn totem spawns, as well as help them learn how and when to use a locker to hide and when not to.

  Fixated- this perk is 100% geared towards new players, it gives them an awareness of the trails they are leaving for the killer to see (also the speed boost to walking is amazing)

  Her last perk is quite literally the most god tier of the three when it comes to teaching new survivors. It covers three gen strat, it covers realizing when to save or to stay put. And it covers teaming up on gens (which honestly is better with leader)

  i would totally agree with this if a) she was available for us to see really how the perks work and b) the perks actually work as you described them without oversight or nerfs applied due to information discovered after launch.

  as for right now i think we can only really offer out opinions on things we have first hand knowledge of. as we all know, perks planned and launched are commonly changed shortly after for any number of reasons.

  until we see what we actually get i can't include upcoming survivors in this discussion, but you very well could be right in the future.

  in David King is the best survivor to start with CHANGE MY MIND Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• 
  

  @RakimSockem said:

  I think a lot of people here are so far removed from being a NEW player that they forget what it's like. Either that, or they picked up the game really quickly and never played with complete "miss every skill check, run and leave scratch marks for no reason" noobs.

  A new player is NOT thinking about the grind or raising their characters. They also aren't going for saves enough to benefit from WGLF.

  A new player wants to stay healthy, stay hidden, find teammates, and avoid death. There's no better 2 survivors for those things than Dwight and Claudette.

  Making the argument that a perk develops what YOU consider to be a "bad habit" later on is irrelevant to the discussion of what is best for a NEW player. Self care is irreplaceable for a new players. Sucks that they nerfed it, but it's still top tier for a new player. Urban evasion is amazing for new players. Hell, I have friends with over 1000 hours in the game who still hold on to that crutch.

  Can't believe I'm saying this but (ugh) Sprint Burst is amazing in the low ranks. I never used it because I always used Feng and Lithe, but Sprint Burst is more dependable for those new players who walk and crouch their asses off.

  Yall gotta put yourselves back in the shoes of a newbie.

  you have the right to think that. fact of that matter is, 5k in game hours later, i still remember being new very well.. i remember constantly being upset thinking i was doing things wrong and causing my own issues. i remember constantly asking people what am i doing wrong? what makes this game so $4177y, or me so $4177y at the game..

  i remember people's vague answers of "you'll get better.. you just have to learn by doing.."

  i understand now that was caused by literally nobody i came into contact with actually understanding how to play the game..

  i also understand that what i was looking for wasn't for someone to give me a "gimmick" character, build, or perk that would allow me to have a little bit more fun in certain situations while i was learning.. i wanted them to legitimately tell me how i could become a better player.

  that said, in this opportunity of people asking what is the best survivor to start with and why, i'm attempting to pay it forward by giving people what i actually wanted when i asked.

  i had plenty of people tell me that i needed to hide more, and be more stealthy.. i tried that, only to find out all it did was make me get even less points, feel more stupid at the end of the game, and be super irritated about spending so much time bored out of my mind in an effort to do better at a game.

  i pushed thru that by deciding quickly that stealth was not fun in any sense of the word for me, and i decided to don the brightest clothes i could and learn how to run & have a good time instead..

  all i can say is while there might be many more people who have the hours I have in this game, i don't know any of them who actually enjoy playing the game daily still, other than me.. i have a great time in most games, and the games where people are too focused on stealth to actually have an enjoyable game are perfectly fine too.

  as soon as i find out that's the game i'm in i'll go be extra risky so i can die as quickly as possible so the little stealth goobers can wait out the rest of the game for no points without me.. they're literally just waiting for me to die anyway, least i can do is move on down the road, hopefully without letting them get any scoring events off of me because that's not what they're playing for anyway, they want the thrill of the hatch or whatever and that's totally fine, but i don't have to be one of the guys waiting out that noise.. i'd rather take my depip and go find non-goobers.

  in David King is the best survivor to start with CHANGE MY MIND Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• on second thought and only because i'm curious,

  
  

   if a killer gets you down and doesn't have a mori, you're still down and the next step is the hook.. at best you have 1 more chance of running before you're sacrificed the traditional way

  
  

  would awarding players who are mori'd an additional 892 BP (the equivalent of a struggle phase on hook) change you guys' minds about how "toxic" moris are?

  in I love this game Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• personally, i like getting mori'd.. as i've stated elsewhere many times, it's a special thing that doesn't happen very often. the killer has to plan to do it, bring an offering, and still successfully pull it off. running from that killer is also a lot of fun because it's more serious even than usual.

  i'd recommend you think about it a little differently, but obviously that's your choice. they may just scare you too much i guess..

  @Gibberish said:

  Actually Keys are the equivilant of Moris.

  Both are a "end the game early" mechanic.

  The only difference is:

  Killer: Has to bring in a Mori.

  Survivors: Can bring in or keys OR just randomly pull them out of their ass via chests.

  i think keys are way worse than moris.. keys make your teammates stop doing stuff. your teammates will wait and try to stay super safe for when the hatch spawns so everyone can try to meet up there and jump in, prematurely ending the match, skipping literally the best part of the game: endgame.

  as if that's not bad enough, players will also commonly try to speed up the act of other people dying so that the hatch will spawn quicker and not all gens will have to be done.

  moris are unique and special, and while they do prematurely end the game, not by much and only for one person at a time. if a killer gets you down and doesn't have a mori, you're still down and the next step is the hook.. at best you have 1 more chance of running before you're sacrificed the traditional way that happens in 95%+ of games..

  in I love this game Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• 
  

  @Fibijean said:

  @chieftaco I personally love stealth and perks like Iron Will, it's just my playing style but I can acknowledge that it's not the ideal strategy and it's better to get good at chases. I think the point about encouraging bad habits is a valid one, which I hadn't really considered until now.

  But I do think that it depends a lot on whether people are more interested in ranking up or in just having fun playing how they want to play, because some people are like me and don't really care if they're not playing optimally because they have fun with a particular build. That's why, when I have a friend that's new and asks who they should pick, I usually say to them something like, "Well, Dwight is good at teamwork, Meg is good at running away from the killer, Nea and Jake are both pretty good for stealth, Claudette is good at healing and Bill is good for clutch situations. So pick whichever one of those sounds most appealing to you."

  understood, and people should get to pick what they're into doing a bit, but if they're really new they're asking you to tell them what's best for them, not what they're into imo.. they might have tons of fun sprint bursting away from the killer every few minutes when he shows up but that doesn't exactly help them very much at actually playing the game from not knowing anything about it because they're new..

  @thesuicidefox said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660860#Comment_660860

  I've been playing on a smurf account (now a second account because I'm purple rank surv/killer) and I can tell you that WGLF is the absolute best teachable to get first. It makes leveling up any other character way WAY easier, and it encourages good play on the survivor (to make safe rescues).

  Like all the meta perks are pretty much worthless at low ranks. Adren will rarely if ever proc, and when it does it will be a game against an absolute baby killer you wouldn't have needed it anyway. DS skill check is a bit tough for newbies, and the whole playstyle is way too much of a risk for new players. BT is still useful, especially because killers at low ranks will camp, but new players aren't going to run up and make a save in the killer's face because they lack balls.

  The only things that help are aura perks, which many of the free perks do great. Deja Vu, Kindred, Small Game, Prem, Dark Sense... these are all actually good perks for beginners. Bond/Empathy require you to level up Dwight/Claud, but outside of those perks nothing else is going to help you all that much. MAYBE Sprint Burst, but DH is basically the same thing on command. New players that pick David are going to not only get BP faster than others, but will likely learn better habits because he doesn't have any perks that teaches bad habits (and in fact has 1 that makes the game harder so you would learn faster).

  WGLF is a super badass perk, nobody is denying it.. it helps you tremendously on your smurf account, as it does everyone else on their smurf accounts, because we all know how to play (at least somewhat..). here we're discussing for new players, and there's a reason david's known as "stupid david".. new players playing him do really really really stupid things constantly lol..

  he's not the best for new players to start with, but maybe the best one for experienced players to start over with if that's what you're getting at..

  i'll give it that.. maybe i'm speaking to a question i misunderstood.

  in David King is the best survivor to start with CHANGE MY MIND Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @thesuicidefox said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660846#Comment_660846

  Urban Evasion is an awful perk that teach awful habits. It teaches you to crouch walk everywhere all the time, which just a huge waste of time. Lightweight is better because you can run around more freely and actually get to places quickly. You don't get better at the game by using UE. It has niche uses, like against Hag or maybe to stealth slow killers like Huntress or Nurse, but outside of that it just teaches you to play poorly.

  Claud has Self Care which is a waste of a perk slot. Equip a medkit and you basically can avoid leveling up Claud. Again teaching bad habits that if you are hurt you should run off to a corner of the map and heal all the time.

  Streetwise is a rather worthless perk. It does almost nothing, and for new players they aren't going to be super efficient with items to take advantage of that tiny boost.

  Dwight has valid reasons to be a good starter, but low ranks don't do gens in groups so PT is not going to help much, and Leader isn't going to help because survivors don't bother to heal you after an unhook, they just run off and hide. The benefit you get from these perks at low ranks is minimal at best. Bond is really good even for new players, but that's not a better perk to get first than WGLF.

  i think it's better to motivate newer players and encourage them to learn a better way to play in general than to keep tucking them nicely into the safest possible hiding scenario and letting them get comfortable to the idea that that is how you play the game..

  just saying new players don't do co-op and new players don't heal IMO should be replaced with the phrase "new players SHOULD do co-op and new players SHOULD heal others"..

  guide them to be better than the garbo everyone's always complaining about instead of shotgunning them straight towards joining the trend..

  in David King is the best survivor to start with CHANGE MY MIND Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @Marcus said:

  Claudette and Meg are still better for new players.

  Claudette has Self Care and Botany Knowledge which will allow you to heal yourself at an acceptable speed and Empathy, which gives you a little bit of map knowledge and it tells you who is chased by the killer.

  Meg has Sprint Burst which has more utility than Dead Hard for a new player. New players will Dead Hard into trees and walls and even if the killer will miss a swing, it takes him just 2 seconds to catch up. Sprint Burst will help you against Wraith ( popular killer in low ranks ) to avoid that first hit and against Billy ( another popular killer in low ranks ) to avoid his instant down for a little more. Or you need to do is to remember to not waste your Sprint Burst and that's not hard, because a new player will walk all the match anyway, Sprint Burst or not. Quick and Quiet can also help you with stealth plays and Adrenaline is a little bit bad for new players, because they usually don't reach the end game, but it's still much better than No Mither.

  i'm sorry but i don't agree with claudette, based on info in above post..

  as for meg, she's cool.. she used to be the best looking survivor.. she teaches bad things tho imo..

  Sprint Burst: teaches you that you get a super duper speed burst when you start running, helpful in ditching the killer.

  issues: teaches you to be super slow and save your "ace in the hole" for the perfect moment. this maximizes the time that it takes to get anything done at all. this also causes them to creep up to hooks (if they even rescue), much too slowly, allowing the hooked person to reach stage 2. when the killer shows up at the hook, sprint burst teaches you to just "run away", leaving an injured person who just got unhooked as easy prey for the killer to just redown/rehook..

  Adrenaline: allows the user to get healed one health state when the exit gates are powered and they get a free sprint burst as well, even if they're exhausted..

  issues: teaches people that healing is less important than generators. takes scoring events away from your teammates and encourages staying injured to allow a perk to heal you later. leaves you vulnerable, noisy, goofy looking, and makes people that are trying to get altruism (the 2nd best thing in the game, second only to co-operative altruism) upset with you for denying them their scoring events, making them less likely to help you rush a generator & more likely to try and sabotage you.

  Streetwise: extends the life of items for you and survivors nearby

  issues: garbo.. nobody cares, just get another item. not like new people are rolling in items anyway, but you know what's better than an item that lasts a little bit longer? the bonus you get in repair speed or healing speed by performing the action with other survivors.

  in David King is the best survivor to start with CHANGE MY MIND Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• 
  

  @Fibijean said:

  I actually agree with @chieftaco about Dwight. He's basically designed to be easy for new players to pick up.

  I usually recommend Nea to new players, or Claudette. Feng would probably be on that list if it weren't for the fact that she's not a base character, and most new players don't have or want DLC just yet. People who are new to the game are super paranoid about doing anything that might put them in danger. They like to hide, and they like to heal. David's perks are good but they're all about living on the edge - they don't suit the typical new-player playstyle. Urban evasion is great for learning how to stealth and evade the killer, and balanced landing, like lithe, is a good exhaustion perk which counters the deadly stagger that most new players don't plan ahead enough to avoid. Streetwise is meh, but not having to worry so much about consuming items is good for learning how to use them effectively. And Claudette obviously is just good for keeping yourself and your team in good health, which is always beneficial, especially since new players are terrible at evading while injured, what with all the moaning and blood.

  agreed.

  i try to avoid recommending claudette at first tho for one main reason: people are encouraged to play overly stealthy with her because they can and they get the idea that stealth play is the way to go, when that's as far from true as can be.. stealth play is the way to go if you want to forever stay bad and watch all of your friends die while you pretend to be a shadow across the map somewhere.

  don't get me wrong, i wouldn't be caught dead without selfcare, especially now in 2019, only because it's so hard to convince typical players that they need to heal me up when i'm injured.. people are tending to focus on gen repairs, leaving teammates injured and keeping them a juicy target for the killer to just hit again for another free hook.

  there is another aspect to selfcare tho and that is that it's commonly used by people in an absolute horrible and little-b kinda way that gets everyone boned. selfcare is meant to be used as a last resort, at half the speed of someone else healing you. i 100% prefer teammates to heal me up right quick so i can get back to the action, but when they don't want to do it i have to do it myself.. this does not mean i spend a minute running to the far corner of the map and then another minute (squatting safely across the map) self-caring.. most times when i'm using self care it's in chase or standing out in the open 30 feet away from the killer at most.. he can see me, i can see him..

  it is very easy for people to play claudette in a very horrible fashion and pretend they're super awesome at the game, and many if not most of them follow, learn, and swear to the trend that literally only makes everyone that sees them identify them as useless little-b's that need to get exterminated asap..

  that said, depending on the person's play style i would still recommend her as 2nd character to get to level 40 followed by bill for BT, then david for WGLF because safe hook rescues are almost guaranteed as long as you are at full health and have BT.. without being at full health (in sticky situations, of course) your attempt at safe unhooks will commonly end up just creating a meat pile snowball situation.

  in David King is the best survivor to start with CHANGE MY MIND Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• 
  

  @Fibijean said:

  @thesuicidefox I'm sorry... but you're just wrong. That's not what the pip is designed to be. That's not what the rules define as the win condition. You can define your personal goal as a pip, that's fine, but don't pretend that that's the win condition defined by the game.

  The fact that the pip system exists does not in any way render the win conditions obsolete. The only thing that "the fact that you can die and still pip or 4k and still depip" proves is that winning the game is not directly tied to ranking up. Call it a design flaw if you will, but at worst that's all it is. Doesn't change the reality that the win condition, as defined in the rules of the game, which is the only place it can be objectively defined, is escaping or killing. (And before you start saying that that doesn't count because it doesn't say "win", a "goal" in the context of a game's rules is the same thing as a win condition. Only someone with limited English comprehension could seriously argue otherwise.)

  I'll say it for the last time: your conflation of winning and pipping is an assumption and a logical fallacy on your part. As you put it:

  Play well = pip =/= win. Play poorly = depip =/= loss.

  ready for a chris angel type mind-freak? what do you have if you take generators out of the game entirely? a map with 2 exits and a race to get out..

  what if the "objective" of powering the generators in order to open the doors is simply a "reason" for you to be on the map for a certain amount of time, giving the killer opportunity to find you, in order for the game to actually become a game instead of a race for an exit?

  objectively we need to as a "goal" power the generators to be able to open the doors... this "goal" requires a number of things.. looking out for the killer, teamwork, prevention and removal of certain hex perks, and keeping your friends alive.

  if you do none of these things and everyone gets killed off, you get to race for the hatch or try to open a door without performing any of the objectives.. why? because the game is over already, you lost. you have one last chance to make it out alive to tell your story and keep your item.. by what you guys are saying, you just "won" the game lol.. congrats! you're the most awesome dbd bada$$ in existence :) ggs & i'm on to the next one..

  in How do you define winning in dbd? Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• 
  

  @NuclearBurrito said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660780#Comment_660780

  Again, you are just making the claim without backing it up.

  Where does it actually say that pipping is winning?

  Don't just make the claim, DEMONSTRATE EVIDENCE for the claim.

  i've seen lots of claims, and if i really wanted to debate further we could, but i'd rather allow you to keep thinking that you're "winning" by watching your team die needlessly, as i'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point. try this one: some games i define winning by outliving blendettes.. why? because that's what i loaded into the game to do..

  anyone can "decide" what winning means to them, and clearly you have "decided" that winning to you means escaping, even at the cost of teammates. people who play with you won't feel like they "won" because you "escaped", nor will they enjoy playing with you unless they just don't know any better, making you someone taking advantage of the uneducated & inexperienced, e.g. a leech.. "winning" something is literally defined as:

  gaining, resulting in, or relating to victory in a contest or competition.

  if the only way you are able to do this is "alone", that's cool.. that's the only way you can "win". by your logic survivors should be competitive with each other in a last man standing kind of fashion producing one or multiple "winner(s)", but by the world's logic 4v1 = team vs one, not every man for themselves.

  this game mimics a war, per your breakdown, and no legitimate war is ever "won" because one guy was scummy enough to slip out of the back door, causing the opposing side to just lose.. in a war, that's actually called desertion, and it's not a good thing :)

  in How do you define winning in dbd? Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @thesuicidefox said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660775#Comment_660775

  So I have a second account. It was a smurf but since I'm not purple ranks on both sides IDK bout that anymore xD

  The problem with Lithe and Alert is they require windows and pallets respectively. Low rank survivors don't use either. They don't know where windows spawn or where to go after they Lithe. Similarly, they don't use pallets enough for Alert to help them. It will help when the killer kicks a gen, but that too is rare at low ranks, and if it's clear across the map it doesn't even make a difference. And Technician really only helps when you are brand-spanking-new to the game. After about 10-20 games you should be good enough at skill checks to not fail them as often.

  WGLF boosts your BP earnings, and DH is a free hit. You don't need to be amazing with DH at low ranks, you just need to wait until the killer is close and use it. I've yet to meet a killer below green ranks that doesn't swing.

  to reply to this, Lithe is very good in the sense that it teaches people to look for and utilize windows and pallet vaults in chases. this can actually be considered one of the best perks for newer people to use because you end up finding out that windows and vaults still work exactly the same once you take the perk off, with the exception of a little speed burst.

  the speed burst does help some in discouraging a killer to keep up chase, but if the killer's gonna chase he's gonna chase, lithe or not.. it is equally as easy to convince a killer to change their minds about chasing you by using the vault at the right time without lithe.

  example:

  if you have lithe and a killer sees you and you jump thru a window & zoom off, a killer is likely to still chase you down knowing that your exhaustion is now burnt.

  the proper way to use it is to loop the killer around a few things a few times, then jump thru a window. the direction you run after vaulting is very important too, but you'll get that with practice so i won't address it..

  when the vault happens after a few loops, the killer is likely to consider himself wasting too much time chasing a "looper" and go look for an easier target, lithe or not.. lithe just seals the deal.

  once you have figured out this pattern and begin to utilize it, your chases will go much better than if you use it right away, and later on when you remove lithe, literally everything works the exact same way as when you had it..

  it is the best perk to use to ween off of and learn how to play exhaustion-perk free..

  in David King is the best survivor to start with CHANGE MY MIND Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• i would never do david first tbh..

  yes he has wglf and that gives you a few points if you complete the conditions well enough, and i do agree that wglf is a must have perk, and almost always taking a perk slot on every one of my survivors, but if we're talking about starting off (and we are), dwight is a much better choice for the following reasons:

  1) Prove Thyself: provides up to 100% bonus BP & emblem for all cooperative actions, plus a boost in speed to everyone working with you. Don't forget you also get points for finding other survivors and for doing things within the terror radius.. this perk is an easy way to max multiple scoring categories in no time at all..

  2) Bond: you can see a little more information about what is going on near you, at all times, as long as it's close enough to you. you can see when teammates nearby are being chased, giving you the information you need to keep focused on the tasks at hand instead of going to hide..

  3) Leader: little known fact, despite what people think leader is one of the greediest perks in the game. its description makes you believe it is a speed gift for others, but understand by running that perk you get unhooked 25% faster than normal, by anyone.. you also get healed 25% faster by anyone, item or not.. add an item in that person's hand and it's even 25% faster than the item should be.. if you're lucky, you have multiple people healing you 25% faster, so in essence, you're unhooked and healed up much quicker by others when you're in danger.

  
  

  As for David:

  Dead hard is a well liked perk that is very good at allowing people to close that last bit of distance needed to reach safety at a pallet instead of being downed right before it. it has other uses as well, but secondary to it's primary use.

  issues: it only works once per exhaustion recovery. you have to be injured to use it, meaning you're 1 hit away from down. it's effected by latency and other outside factors, it's blocked by any exhaustion addon or perk, and it takes both luck and skill to execute it properly. even very experienced players constantly complain "i pressed e" constantly when they get downed anyway..

  We're gonna live forever is a very nice perk providing up to 100% bp gains post-game for taking protection hits and making safe hook rescues.

  issues: it's conditional on being able to make safe hook rescues without any other tools to help make that happen, unsafe unhooks still give you points, but reduce your chances to build your multiplier, you have to stay in danger to collect said stacks, more than probably causing the demise of both the newer player and the people he keeps "saving"

  
  

  WGLF is a very nice perk to run once you are more acquainted with the game, preferably after getting other perks that make it's use something more than a crappy game for everyone involved.

  in David King is the best survivor to start with CHANGE MY MIND Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• that's a lot of shards gained..

  i can tell you i get about 27k shards per devotion.. when the devotion stuff came out i misunderstood but was very excited about even a .1x multiplier or something per devotion, but at this point i understand shards to be a "thank you" for playing, and i'm okay with the understanding that for every devotion i make i can purchase a free premium outfit and a few other pieces from the store that aren't premium if i want..

  don't get me wrong, i'd love more, but i think them paying me a few free skins per devotion is more than fair. i can always buy an outfit if i want one bad enough but already spent my shards, and that's really all the shards are good for unless you want to burn them off for a little bit of extra bp..

  in Devotion Idea. Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @RaginRendon said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660641#Comment_660641

  Umm... no. As a skilled survivor player myself, I can agree that I focus on the winning aspect of the game but sometimes I might want to switch up my plays style from a “determined to win” mindset to a “ima run a meme build” mindset. It’s the players choice on whether they want to play a certain way or not. Even a group of friends with 1,000+ hours could even decide one day that their gonna play for the fun of it. You assuming that every experienced player plays to just win is quite silly.

  never have i ever said "every experienced player plays to win"..

  i clearly described SWF games as something where 1 of 2 things happen: the game is too fast and not fulfilling because everyone is trying to focus on getting out of the exit.

  i am a very experienced player and i put it to you that i almost NEVER play to the goal of "winning" as most people see it..

  there are not many people who can play and enjoy this game daily for 5k hours, and the way that i have found to do that is by actually having fun in the game, not stressing about friends not saving because they're too scared or whatever..

  in my experience in this game, understand that I am not speaking about SWF with my friends necessarily, but being the "random" in other SWF games as well..

  i do have my own friends that i can SWF with and if we wanted to we could easily escape every match, but instead, my crew prefers to focus on maximizing fun and scoring events for everyone. when i SWF all 5 players in the game are usually very near max in all categories by the end, and we all have a great time and are greatly rewarded for our efforts.

  we easily bring in 40-65k BP without using offerings, per person, per game.. with offerings BP goes thru the roof, per game..

  when i play solo, bad games where bad players let me die on first hook are very common, but games that aren't like that are still super easy to get 25k base minimum, usually closer to 30k+ base.. factor in WGLF stacks and i'm back at 50-60k bp per game.

  when i play on the DbD discord, even with veterans, the "meta" at being "good" results in 13-16k bp per game.. maybe if someone gets to make some saves they get closer to 20-22k base if they're super lucky.. that comes out to 26-44k bp with we're gonna live forever, still a good 6k less for the best SWF game than the base solo game, or 50-60% of the points i would make.

  as you can see strictly by the numbers, swf in general without very skilled players is unfulfilling and boring for me. even if they are "very skilled", it really depends on what they are "very skilled" in.. if they aren't "very skilled" in team play and taking hooks, then IMO they are not "very skilled"..

  in Killers Complaining About S.W.F is Getting quite Annoying Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• popping hag traps with my feet is literally one of my favorite things to do in dbd, no b/s :)

  the more she puts them down, the more i run thru them.. you can make a hag waste so much time retrapping stuff over and over and over and just laughing..

  usually she's trying to protect something.. find that something and make her camp that thing instead of people..

  if you do not do that, and you leave her traps down and let her do her thing, she's definitely a beast mode killer.

  in As a survivor main Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @Fibijean said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660730#Comment_660730

  No, but it does say that escaping is the survivors' "goal", which in the context of a competitive game is the same as the "objective of the game" or the "win condition". I should clarify, though, that the goal is only synonymous with the win condition in this context because the wincon is defined by the official rules of the game. Personal goals which deviate from this are therefore irrelevant.

  Pipping is not a win condition, it is a measure of skill. You're conflating the two because typically, the more skilled you are, the more likely you are to win. But in a competitive game, especially one with teams, this isn't necessarily the case. You can play really well (in DBD, this is typically represented by a pip) and still lose (die), because your teammates played badly or your opponent simply played better. Similarly, you can play badly (depip) but still fulfill the win condition (escape), if your opponent also plays badly or your team carries you to victory. There's nothing wrong with caring more about pipping than about escaping. But to pretend that it's a game-defined win condition rather than a personal goal is simply untrue.

  you guys keep saying this mess about "escaping" being how you "win" the round, but you never clarify why you are able to "escape" with very little bloodpoints and not enough emblem points for even a safety pip..

  if the saga continues, please try explaining how that works.. how do you "win" without "winning"?

  in How do you define winning in dbd? Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• 
  

  @NuclearBurrito said:

  @thesuicidefox In fact, not only was the game guide as a whole updated, but that specific section OF the game guide was updated.

  Here is the updated screenshot:

  https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/295/WVE02KN0W55U.png

  notice in the screenshot you posted where it constantly says "Survivors"? In the first sentence it is followed by an apostrophe, showing possessiveness. "Survivors'", or in broken english "Survivors's", not "Survivor's" singular..

  just in case you missed it..

  in How do you define winning in dbd? Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @Fibijean said:

  @chieftaco I'm honestly not sure if @NuclearBurrito's point went totally over your head or you're just being pendantic so you can one-up them just to prove you're right about something.

  No one is pretending that there isn't cooperation in DBD. But two teams competing with each other is still a competitive game, even though the teams are cooperating within themselves. League of Legends is a competitive game, not a cooperative one, because each team has a goal which is in direct conflict with the other. Thus, they are in competition. A cooperative game is not one that includes teams, but one in which all players are working towards the same goal. DBD does not fall into that category.

  i'm sorry i believe it's you that is misunderstanding. @NuclearBurrito is stating that between survivors the game is competitive not cooperative. the game itself includes 2 aspects, competitive and cooperative, and is intended for your team to cooperatively compete against the killer, again the stated "4v1" description..

  people can choose to compete directly with their teammates if they want to, but then the game is a free for all, not cooperative, and it becomes a much different game.

  hope that clears things up..

  in How do you define winning in dbd? Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @NuclearBurrito said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660661#Comment_660661

  The one who escapes is the winner.

  And a game being casual doesn't mean it isn't competitive.

  Competitive just means you have at least 2 opposing player controlled sides. Which in DBD you do. And guess what! You need a win condition for that to work! Because otherwise you need to design around the possibility that players don't bother competing and thus end up with a game where the intended outcome isn't reached, at which point you don't have a competitive game but a COOPERATIVE game. This is why the ranking system needed to be changed from blood points, the Killer was working with the Survivors in order to maximize BP for everyone and it was defeating the point of the game due to people no longer playing to their win condition.

  You can quantify a win in any game you where you can win. In games where you CAN'T win there simply is no state you can reach where you can correctly say you have won, which is just as important.

  You can use that game as a basis for a DIFFERENT game which DOES have a win condition, but even if it uses the initial games code it still is a game in of itself that would need to be designed with separate considerations.

  For example Minecraft is a game you can't win. But Survival Games is a game you can win. Survival Games is not Minecraft even though it's a game played within Minecraft.

  And again, Mario Party's win condition is just as objective as league of legends is. Are you going to try and tell me that Mario Party isn't casual? Or are you saying that the victory screen in that game straight up lies to you sometimes?

  you can use many many words and paragraphs saying all kinds of things about your competitive not cooperative opinion. i ask you only one thing.. how do you explain this:

  

  
  

  incase it's not readable after posting, its a google screenshot of me typing in "dead by daylight" and both of the official dead by daylight results immediately state the game is a "4v1" game.. so what is this you're saying about this being a competitive game and not cooperative? lul :)

  in How do you define winning in dbd? Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• if you're trying to maximize blood point gains, as silly as this may sound to new and experienced players alike, understand that this is the way:

  play survivor.. solo..

  spend every second you are alive in a game doing something that gives you blood points. don't go hide every time you hear a heartbeat.

  look for other players to do cooperative actions with, even tho some think it's bad..

  when you get killed, and you will most games, do not spectate. just start a new game.

  
  

  explanation:

  you are not going to win every match, you just aren't. especially being new and not having many perks. the longer you are in a match, the less points you are making. the more safely you play, the less time you're spending getting points, and the more time you are going to be alive, hoping for a whopping 5-7k payout at the end.

  struggling on hook for 60 seconds gives you a maximum of 892 blood points, not even 1000. you can get 1000 blood points for breaking a totem in the next game. the minute you spend struggling on the hook can get you to your next game that much faster. more games per hour = more points earned per hour..

  
  

  newer killers with or without BBQ may have issues finding people, getting hits & hooks, etc. and the killer is the one who has to stay in the game until all 4 survivors are settled in some way, either dead or escaped.

  
  

  you can also use survivor perks straight away to help you gain points quicker. dwight would be a good survivor to start with because you can immediately equip Prove Thyself for up to 100% bonus bp for all cooperative actions. david's we're gonna live forever perk is another great perk for bloodpoint gains, but it depends on how many save unhooks and protection hits you can take, and that won't be very many in the beginning.

  good luck out there in the fog! go get paid!

  in Finding it hard to keep playing Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @NuclearBurrito said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660629#Comment_660629

  Still not what a win is.

  Personal Goal? Yes. But the distinction is important.

  You know what DOES get to define victory to others? The game being played. And I have repeatedly shown that the game has an unambiguous win condition. At that point it isn't an opinion. It isn't "just to me", but it's an objective win condition and you must achieve before you can correctly say that you have won a round of dead by daylight.

  But ok, lets humor you. You say the win condition is fun? How are the developers now supposed to balance with that in mind? How do they go about quantifying it in order to ensure that no character is overpowered or underpowered?

  If winning is fun then how does a high level player go about optimizing a build with which to achieve this goal? In fact, how do you even determine a high level player at all? And how would you even begin to go about constructing a ranking system that puts the players who have the most fun at the highest rank and the players with the least fun at the lowest?

  its a casual game, not a competitive one.. you guys with your numbers, stats, complaints, & whatever else are the ones who think you quantify a "win" in a non-competitive game..

  personally i'd rather get sacrificed immediately in 400 games back to back than play one game where i watch everyone die and pretend to be a rock. would you say it's my "personal goal" that i'm accomplishing, not fun?

  by the way, you're welcome for all the times people like me have pulled your sorry sack off of a hook and you've watched us die for no reason other than to secure your "win" :)

  who would you say is better at the game? the person who can break a facecamping leatherface and secure a safe hook rescue or a 13k bp average per game breathing boulder? who wins in that scenario for you?

  in How do you define winning in dbd? Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @immortalls96 said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660633#Comment_660633

  How? If there are no killers...how can you get lobbies..?

  if i click killer right now in game and create a lobby, there is a wait before it will create one.. if there were not enough killers, creating a killer lobby would happen instantly.

  in Weaponizing dcs..a long term worry Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• 
  

  @RaginRendon said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660365#Comment_660365

  S.W.F makes the game boring? You know, people play with their friends to have fun, in case you didn’t know.

  since you offer me tidings of wisdom i will explain to you a little better:

  swf teams are one of 2 things for most people, but usually 4 people that are determined to somehow all get out of the exit together.

  when they are newer less skilled swf teams, everyone dies super fast, or people get picked off 1 by 1 until everyone is dead or maybe someone escapes.

  when they are more skilled swf teams, they switch the focus of the game to a limited subset of the game in "strategy" in order to help them all escape or have the best chance of doing so. this usually involves lack of healing, cleansing sickness, cleansing totems, saving friends, interacting with the killer, etc.

  all of these restrictions on the game make the game very fast, boring, and unrewarding. everyone else usually runs out of the door if possible before anyone's even been hooked, meaning no excitement or rewards for anyone..

  would there be a more applicable term you would like other than boring to describe the sentiment?

  in Killers Complaining About S.W.F is Getting quite Annoying Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @immortalls96 said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660597#Comment_660597

  Except last time someone checked the real issue was a lack of killers..not survivors..survivors are fine..still brain dead easy..theres not enough killers to host 4 survivors each, hence why survivor ranks are everywhere

  unfortunately this isn't true.. if the problem was really lack of killers we would get much faster killer lobbies.

  in Weaponizing dcs..a long term worry Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @Gab said:

  Is dc'ing a problem or a symptom? If more and more survivors are dc'ing, then they are not having fun...plain and simple. I've casually played this game since launch about 50/50 killer survivor, and have seen it cycle. Killer buffs, killer nerfs, survivor buffs, survivor nerfs, long survivor queues, and long killer queues.

  The current cycle is long killer queues. That means that there isn't a 4 to 1 ratio of survivors to killers, which means that the next cycle is near. If the killer queue time is 15 minutes and they start banning survivors for dc'ing, i.e. even less survivors in the queue, I would hate to see how long the killer queue times peak.

  Let's all be honest, the ranking system, i.e. the way the devs can try to control the matches, is completely useless now. Just log onto twitch to see the real rank 1 killers playing at rank 15 destroying beginners at this game. You'll see 4 slugs with no generators done and people bleeding out on the ground. Their winning condition is a 4k...whatever it takes. They have all perks and score is meaningless to them because they want to depip. Those survivors that are dc'ing are doing it because they are having a bad time.

  Like I said, the new cycles is near. We should expect a bunch of killer nerfs or survivor buffs to address the dc'ing and long killer queues.

  the problem is people thinking they need to express an odd opinion by "dc'ing" because "i don't think this game is going to be any fun" and "i shouldn't have to play a game that isn't fun", thereby ruining every match that they deem not fun for everyone else involved..

  the more people that do it, the worse it gets for a larger user base.. the problem isn't people not having fun, it's people being little b-words and not playing games they don't want to play. it's a game about trying to escape a brutal killer with the help of a random team, not a game where you bounce on an NPC item to make silly sounds and crazy colors people can just laugh all tickled at..

  dead by daylight doesn't include a feature where you can select to only go against rank 20 no perk bing-bongs on purpose.. all of the dc-as-a-strategy folks don't deserve to be lower ranks as long as they're dc'ing because they don't "enjoy" certain matches.. they ruin games for everyone else literally because they don't care to put the time or effort into getting better against a certain killer or map or whatever.

  if the killer is so bad what benefit do you get over dc'ing vs just playing a short match, earning a little bit of skill & experience, & moving on?

  i can say i don't dc against any map or any killer and at this point in my dbd gaming i'm a huge fan of all of the killers and maps and stuff that most people hate because they're too scared of trying to actually improve..

  and remember, i say all of this from the survivor on your team's standpoint.

  in Weaponizing dcs..a long term worry Comment by chieftaco August 31, 2019

• @AWesley91 said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660394#Comment_660394

  It's reality. Entitled killer players think it's fine if they dodge survivors/items they don't like, but hate when survivors dodge killers/items thet don't like.

  Only an idiot or a liar can deny it.

  my bad i clicked quote but it didn't do it.. message above :)

  in Weaponizing dcs..a long term worry Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• you know what else only an idiot can do? assume the people they are talking to are a killer.. i put it to you now that you are talking to me about my perspective as a survivor.

  i, as a survivor, have no respect for you survivors that dodge the game because of an offering or whatever reason. It keeps me in an endless lobbying up cycle that is uber boring.

  i also enjoy being mori'd, seeing as it's something special that doesn't happen often & the killer has to plan to do it and use an offering to attempt it and then still seal the deal. it's a lot of fun to actually PLAY the matches, not constantly get kicked back to lobbying up in hopes of a more boring game lobby in the future.

  you should really refrain from speaking probably.. :)

  in Weaponizing dcs..a long term worry Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• @AWesley91 said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660349#Comment_660349

  Another crybaby who loves lobby dodge but hates when others do it.

  game dodge is not equal to lobby dodge friend.. call names all you want, you'll grow out of that.. :)

  in Weaponizing dcs..a long term worry Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• that's all the information you need to make your choice tho. no word play happening friend.

  if they wanted you to see what perks and offerings and killer you were going against, they'd show you. it is supposed to be a surprise, and it is supposed to sometimes be extra tense, period. that's where a big part of the fun comes from. the fun is not supposed to start and end with "oh #########, he almost saw me!"

  xD back atcha

  @RakimSockem said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660381#Comment_660381

  I run Feng with her red dress and green hair. I don't blend with anything LOL

  And the lobby is just a waiting area for survivors. The survivor lobby and killer lobby are NOT the same so Idk why you just tried to do some wordplay gymnastics to make them seem like they were. The only thing a survivor gets to decide technically at that point is how much lag they're willing to deal with based on the killer ping. The killer has that choice as well as adapting their perk build and offering to counter what they're playing against. That's not the same thing at all XD

  
  

  in Weaponizing dcs..a long term worry Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• 
  

  @RakimSockem said:

  I'll just bullet point this to make it easier to read:

  1. Legion NEEDED a nerf and it wasn't solely because of DC's, it's because they were a toxic and broken killer.
  2. Your entire X = DC argument existed before Legion and continues to persist after his nerf. I played against a killer the other day who DC'd as soon as the match started and then said "I don't play Haddonfield"
  3. For those complaining about survivors disconnecting in the loading screen when they see a Mori, killers DC even before then. The survivor doesn't want to play the game against a Mori. And many killers don't want to play against a team of toolboxes, medkits, and flashlights. Lobby dodge = DC imo

  i like your bullet point #3 about killers technically dc'ing because they don't want to face your toolboxes, medkits, and flashlights.. if a killer cared about that they'll bring franklins.. if they dodge your lobby it's because you look like you're gonna be a lame game, period..

  it's not the items, it's the blendette powers you've activated on your characters so you can blend into the shadows and laugh when the killer is "blind" because he doesn't want to walk around checking behind every pile of crap on the map looking for you :)

  some people have fun playing like that & that's fine.. that doesn't mean everyone does. still, we are given a 60 second timer in the lobby to let everyone decide if they want to load into the game or not once all players are here. It's like that for a reason. It gives all 5 players 60 seconds to decide if they want to play this particular game or not. If you wait the 60 seconds, it is the same as pressing ready.

  if everyone readies up, a game agreement has taken place.. at that point, a dc becomes a dc.. it's a game mechanic, the 60 second countdown. it's not long enough for people to add & message each other and make arrangements to play a game a certain way, but it is long enough for you to decide if these are the guys you want to load into the fog with..

  in Weaponizing dcs..a long term worry Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• 
  

  @RaginRendon said:

  I'm always seeing players complain about swf 24/7 and it's getting quite annoying, and I’m pretty sure the developers are getting quite sick of it as well. I understand that communication can provide a huge advantage but not every s.w.f group is a toxic try hard team that’s so determined to win. Also, the chances of running into a S.W.F group are slim, so stop making it seem like you play against S.W.F groups 24/7. I have played against S.W.F groups and yes it can be annoying asf but you gotta study & learn your opponents so that you can make sure they don’t succeed; this is something that you should do in general anyways.

  I am a survivor main and i voice the same complaints as the killers you speak of.. swf teams make the games really dumb and boring a-f..

  @Drazen said:

  Problem is game is designed and balanced for solo survivors not swf on coms only few killers can overcome swf while other gets bullied so people come flaming on forums lol

  the game was designed for fun.. swf gen rushing and leaving without altruism & benevolence for everyone takes the fun out of the games.. this is coming from the survivor you call "the rando"..

  @avilmask said:

  Only killers complain about swf, huh? I've seen so many times, how swfs ruin the game to solos.

  ty avilmask.. yes.. survivors think you "strategic competitive swf teams" are really friggin lame as well.. only survivors that don't really understand how to play the game think you guys' play style is super sweet & yall are super good cuz you win so easily lol

  in Killers Complaining About S.W.F is Getting quite Annoying Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• @twistedmonkey said:

  https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/660299#Comment_660299

  One is only bannable as it hinders peoples ability to progress in the game making it a loss of points and pips and unfun for those left.

  Both are technically the same situation though as the the reason they are used is to bypass legit game items, mechanics and what they find unfun.

  If they fixed the point and pip situation and decided to no longer ban for dcing and punished lobby dodging instead by banning for too many I wonder if people would still argue they are different due to the TOS.

  This is why I put both acts in the same bracket. Dodging can increase queue times which can also lead to less points and pips over time in reality and make it unfun sitting in the lobby for prolonged periods.

  Imo dodging needs fixed so unless it's a high ping if you leave the lobby you have the same rules as a dcer which I think should be done using a timeout system.

  literally the most left-handed twisted thing i've ever read.. lobby dodging same as dc'ing in game? hahahaha

  understand this: if you think i as a killer should be forced to play dumb games vs blendette squads just because the luck god dropped them in my lobby, understand that if i do play that game it's a total waste of time for everyone cuz i promise i'll hide better than all of them and there'll be depips for everybody :)

  your suggestion was not very well thought out. If i as the killer keep getting the same group over and over, whether i dominated them or not, i don't want to keep getting them..

  there are many many reasons for me to leave a lobby, there are very few for me to leave a game in progress (or loading).. if you are getting bounced from too many lobbies, try something different. take TTV out of your names, don't be looking like a garbo immersed team, change your names & look different, or get better internet.. after completing that checklist your lobby experience will probably be much different.

  EntitledBoner

  in Weaponizing dcs..a long term worry Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• @Kabu said:

  Had someone dc on me yesterday who said it was because I chose Ghostface... Ghostface.....

  lol

  in Weaponizing dcs..a long term worry Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• as a follow up, also difficult was when i had to unfollow / unsub many streamers i used to enjoy for either doing themselves or playing with people who did the tactical dc'ing.. kinda sickening to watch if you're actually a player of the game..

  in Weaponizing dcs..a long term worry Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• currently i try to avoid my "home" because IMO reds and lower purples are where all the garbo players that tactically dc are right now.. every time i get lower i run into an endless stream of false start games because of offerings.. it's really sad, but it is what it is.. somehow the dc'ers have taken over the reds so they can have it, i'm good :) i'm trying to play the game not be a little b..

  in Weaponizing dcs..a long term worry Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• What doesn't everyone get about dead by daylight being a non-competitive game? there is no leaderboard.. if there were, it would be totally skewed because it would be reflective of people's individual experiences, not their skill..

  understand the term RNG... many things in the game are based on luck. there are luck offerings in the game.. luck has huge affect on your particular game. sometimes you are lucky, sometimes you are unlucky..

  being that the game is non-competitive, it's meant for people to have a good time.. if you as a survivor have a good time pretending to be a boulder for 12 minutes per game, knock yourself out.. if you have a good time rushing gens and running out of the door with no points, run swiftly and repair quickly my friend.. if you enjoy doing absolutely nothing but practicing moonwalks and spinning in circles, the only way you'll vomit is if it's a plague game so spin happily homie..

  until there is a way to actually make this game competitive, understand that if you are playing it that way a lot of other players out there think of the gaming experience you are providing as the most boring game they've ever played and not fun at all.. in the same sense, when i make a safe BT save and get 2 stacks for the price of 1 because the killer wants to camp, many people decide instantly that I somehow "farmed" them and decide not to pull me off of the hook ever because i'm not playing the way they like to play.. that doesn't make either side "stupid" or "ignorant" or any other negative verb, it only makes them "incompatible players".. it also adds a bit of random to the game keeping the game from becoming "too boring" i mean "too easy"..

  nobody needs more information that provides them the means to make the game even less eventful and more unfulfilling than the majority of them already are.. the game is literally designed for people to be discovered by a killer, get chased, get hooked, provide teammates with altruism/benevolence, and then it's the next person's turn..

  those are the game's scoring events that make up 50%+ of each player's score.. most immersed teams have no concept of this which is why they have a bad rep.. they make games boring.. their play style causes people who wouldn't normally die to get taken out immediately for legitimately no reason, hence the semi-popular practice of mori'ing the blendettes and making sure where possible that they have the worst gaming experience ever.

  hope that helps.

  EntitledBoner

  in Time to add a being chased indicator to survivor portraits on the HUD? Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• for me a survivor game "win" is any game where people get to have fun.. the only "losing" games are the ones where you lay on the ground or hang on the hook and watch a bunch of dipshits squatting across the map in different areas practicing to be a pro.. a good indicator that a game is getting better is being able to get some co-op altruism (best stuff in the game).. it is usually followed up with co-op objective (2nd best thing), and a great time for everyone..

  a killer game "win" is either a pip or making all of the survivors depip with me.. ez.

  in How do you define winning in dbd? Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• @TRB124 said:

  I’d love it if you get a post-match bonus based on how many of your team escaped. That would encourage saving each other to get more BP’s

  unfortunately you do! that's how the emblems work for one thing, and #2, you get bonus bps every time you save anyone or heal them.. cooperative altruism is the best thing in the game so you should always be in search of that.. once you get it, you know the game just got a whole lot better..

  in No consequences for leaving teammates behind on purpose? Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019

• @JawsIsTheNextKiller said:

  Remember how facing a hillbilly with Ruin used to feel when we were learning the game? A solo yellow rank survivor, playing with other solo yellow rank survivors. Everyone slugged within the first three minutes?

  This is going to be the experience of the new players. I can already hear the sound of Hillbillies deranking themselves in the distance.

  yeah i gotta say, that's pretty much what the games are always going to be like sometimes.. are you suggesting some kind of enchanted protection for newer players that would prevent yellow and brown rank killers from using ruin? or just yellow and brown rank hillbillies? what about nurse without ruin.. she slugs a bunch.. should she be a surprise waiting for new players once they rank down low enough for them to start getting chances at her lobbies?

  in Hex perks are not healthy for the game Comment by chieftaco August 30, 2019