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@CashelP14 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2999203#Comment_2999203
I'm actually quite surprised I haven't lol faced him a bunch so I just got really lucky.
There's a que when he teleports but I don't think there's any information that he's left the remnant behind. The animation does help but I think the killer can do stuff like moon walking to throw you off.
Wait moon walking? Can't he just do that without remnant? Or what exactly do you mean?
Nevertheless, I wouldn't mind a sound queue. However, I feel like on loops that break line of sight, so those where this would help, he already has fair counterplay, since he can't see what exactly the survivor is doing, while the survivor can pretty much pinpoint his location because of the sound he makes. But not knowing if he has placed a remnant or not of course makes the counterplay tougher, so maybe that would be a good idea.
It's just in my experience, I feel like survivors often know when I have placed my remnant, despite not seeing me, but perhaps they are just predicting that I set up my remnant. I need to pay attention to that the next time I play against him.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Tunneling potential:
Yes, I agree. Increasing the radius of blocked Lockers and making it harder for him to teleport back instantly are good changes. If someone does not tunnel anyway, they also should not impact them.
Nightfall:
Should be toned down a bit. But only a bit, PTB-Version was too bright. But on some Maps it is really hard to see with NIghtfall, e.g. Red Forest-Maps dont look like they have 18m of Radius.
Anti-Loop:
Agreed on Bloodlust being cancelled. But I think that this is an Oversight. I am not sure about the Cooldown, I have played against Dredge, but have not played him myself a lot, so I cannot really give any opinion on that one.
Yeah, I kind of find it hard to judge the Nightfall in general. On Haddonfield, for example, I was able to see perfectly fine.
I do think the visibility radius is more than enough, even if it isn't quite 18 meters. But on some maps, I think the problem is that the already darker lighting is made even darker, which makes certain parts of the map unnecessarily hard to see. To be fair, I have had very few issues so far, and am stil able to be chased by Dredge just fine. But it seems like some people are having a much harder time, that goes beyond the intended effect. Especially for people with sight issues. That needs to be looked on.
I think what bugs me the most is the vignette effect that darkens the edges of the screen. they either need to reduce it, or just get rid of it entirely.
Bloodlust is a no brainer. However, I am not talking about the cooldown when it comes to the remnant, but the time it takes to teleport back to the remnant. The more I have been playing with him, the more I think that might not be needed. While it can shut down some pallet loops completely, survivor definitely have a good amount of other counterplay against Dredge. And he can be looped at loops that break line of sight. But increasing the teleport time to 0,5 seconds or so probably also wouldn't make a big difference anyways. But yeah, I am very unsure on that last one.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Only his add ons and make the teleport cooldowns longer tbh.
The one add-on that boosts his nightfall charge speed by 66% comes into mind. Also, I would not mind having nightfall last half the time, as it is simply too dark on certain maps. Makes you disoriented quite a lot
Half the time would be such an exaggerated nerf. Just make it so you can actually see within the radius you are supposed to see a bit easier. Like reducing or removing the vignette effect that darkens the edges of the screen.
I also think his teleport cooldown is completely fine at the moment, 12 seconds is definitely enough to balance it out. Maybe 14 or 15 seconds would still work well, but again, I think that would be unnecessary, at the moment at least. Good map pressure is what makes this killer actually strong and balanced.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
He needs buffs tbh
Please no. He is perfectly balanced, we don't need another Hug tech Blight or Nurse.
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How so? I definitely disagree. I wouldn't be against a few very minor nerfs to things like his Bloodlust not canceling when he uses his ability, but other than that, he seems perfectly fine.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
The only change I want is, that they fix the tentacle's ######### hitbox. I'm sick of getting hit from around corners because the hitbox moves with the killer and does not stick to the tentacle (which already hit the ground).
Well the lingering hitbox is a good thing, but I agree that it shouldn't go past objects so you can theoretically get a hit around objects. That seems weird.
This only happens to me incredibly rarely however, so I have always assumed that it was just lag.
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@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2999223#Comment_2999223
I really don't know what to tell you, I'm talking from my experience with him, not some wild theories based on numbers.
And as said earlier, i'm facing meta slave teams frequently with the usual dead hard / borrowed / decisive.
No, I'm not using Call of Brine with him, I used whatever perks I had by the time I levelled him to 20. Only perk I had that felt like it did something was Fearmonger since that is pretty useful against dead hards.
you're saying "You realise it takes 40 seconds to regress 10 seconds of gen progress" and "12 seconds of cooldown is not broken at all"
You do realize that the survivors won't even get 10 seconds of progress if my teleport cooldown is 12 seconds? Like i said before, I end up knowing exactly where they are, so I am THERE the moment the survivors touch the generator. By the time they've given up on the generator it's been minutes of me aggressively protecting it. I mentioned this before but there was a match where there were 3 gens left, of which 2 of them had all 4 pistons moving. I managed to regress both those gens back to 0 progress, and kill everyone.
It's all about patience. If gens are about to pop, don't commit to a chase.
Edit: I also forgot to comment on that you're saying there aren't lockers near every gen. Yeah that doesn't matter. If there aren't lockers near the generators, i just let the generator complete. basically, let the survivors do the gens that you know would be harder to defend when there's only 3 gens left on the map. Most of my matches start off with survivors doing 2-3 gens before my first hook, i just make sure they don't do the generators I want to be there for the "endgame". That's when I start killing.
Yeah I am also speaking of experience. There is just no way you can defend all three gens enough to have them regress to 0% again if the survivor team is good and knows how to do gens. During Nightfall you can definitely defend gens very effectively, but outside of Nightfall, not to such an effect.
12 second cooldown, plus teleport speed, plus lockers often not being right next gens, plus being able to lock lockers, balance his map pressure more than enough. And in general you won't always be able to defend the 3 gens that have lockers right next to them. In most cases, there aren't three gens that are right next to lockers. There's most often always at least a few meters distance or more. Not to mention that smart survivors might want to prioritise those few gens that do have lockers right next to them anyway at the start of the match.
Again, the regression is key here. Yes, a survivor won't be able to repair a gen for more than 10, probably 12-14 seconds though (you need to keep the travel speed in mind) if you teleport, kick a gen, and then teleport back to the other gen, and kick that gen. However, in that case, you are doing nothing else than teleporting to a gen, kicking it, maybe getting a hit against a survivor if they don't gain enough distance, and then go back to the other gen. Smart survivors will however notice what you are doing, and be able to predict when you will teleport back to the gen, so they'll make sure they will gain enough distance to you to force you to commit to them, instead of even getting to kick the gen, so you'd just be going back and forth, regressing gens, with survivors still progressing them faster when you are gone.
A gen regresses 2,25 seconds of progress in 10 seconds. So if you do this back and forth, the survivor will slowly be gaining progress on you, because they can still progress the gen much faster than you can regress it. So again, there is no way to teleport back and forth from gen to gen, with a cooldown of 12 seconds and travel speed of 12 M/S, and regress it enough, without the survivors being able to progress those gens. It's mathematically not possible. Even with the addon that decreases the cooldown to 8 seconds, which fair enough, I could see getting a small nerf. Even with Call of Brine that won't work. Not even with Ruin most likely, though that could come very close.
And this is still not taking into consideration the 3rd gen, that, even if it spawns right in between to other gens that you can teleport to, you will also have to waste a few seconds walking to in some cases.
During Nightfall, you can definitely defend gens very effectively. Not sure if you can really get on that as well, force you to commit to them, or just heal up, and wait out Nightfall perhaps. After that, they will be able to do gens just fine again.
Also, in your example with two gens being almost done, and regressing back to 0, the survivors just played extremely badly, or they forgot where those gens were. Hell, after you went to kick the one gen, and then teleporting to the other gen, one survivor could have easily jumped on the gen to finish that gen, and they would have been done. But even if not, after a bit of regression, they should have been able to progress the gens fairly quickly again, as I have already explained in this post above.
To be fair, this discussion is probably kind of pointless. I am absolutely certain they will not nerf Dredge's map pressure in any noticeable way, especially not the way you would nerf it. Not going to happen. It would butcher Dredge and so many people would be pissed. Not to mention that barely anyone complains about his map pressure, if anything, the complaints are mostly just about his Nightfall being too dark. And a few complaints about his remnant, though those will surely get less and less the more people realise just how much counterplay Dredge actually has.
And to be fair, I can see them nerfing Nightfall. At the very least, making it a bit easier on those people that struggle too much with the current drakness effects, such as the vignette effect darkening the edges of the screen. Maybe nerfing the cooldown during Nightfall. Or just making it take a bit longer until Nightfall activates, cause I do feel like just teleporting around fills the Nightfall meter a bit fast.
But a nerf to his teleport base kit? Definitely not, unless the game does get some noticeable baseline slowdown added in the feature, with the perk update for example. Then I can see them nerfing the cooldown to 15 or 16 seconds, absolutely, but anything beyond that, most likely not. Surely not 20 seconds or anything above that. I am sure they have no intention to make this killer weak, especially since this killer definitely took a lot of work.
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I mean I have heard the agument before that we have so many anti-loop killers because of bad map design and what not. I guess maybe there is a bit of truth in that. But I don't think that's the main reason.
The fact is, if we didn't have killers with different chase powers, chases would be always the same against all killers, which would become boring very quickly I feel. Giving different killers different forms of anti-loop abilities makes chases much more varied in gameplay and counterplay.
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It's probably one of the worst balanced maps in the game, and to think it is one of the newest ones, is a bit crazy. Luckily Haddonfield rework and Garden of Joy are not nearly as bad, the former being pretty good in my opinion.
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I agree that the new survivor perks need buffs, and in general I agree with your suggestions, except maybe the blindness duration on residual manifest. 30 seconds seems long enough to me.
I'm not sure if the killer perks need buffs. At least not dissolution. Though maybe I do agree with the buff idea to Septic Touch.
One thing to remember though is, is that the meta perks will all be receiving nerfs in the future, so these perks don't need to live up to those meta perks anyways.
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@Chadku said:
Didn't Almo say the down by any means would include the trapper addon that downs you when selfrescuing?
I understand why devs don't want that thing since having gens explode 32m within you because someone ignored to mend, got hatchet sniped or that addon worked doesn't make sense but it would atleast make it usable on more than M1's.
I don't know if that's a good reason to have Jolt not work on all downs honestly. Those situations are very niche, not to mention a survivor not mending is their fault entirely, and Trapper isn't particularly strong to begin with.
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@Fnatic47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2999210#Comment_2999210
I did the adept The Dredge right after i post this, However i think he is a weak killer. When i play survivor against him or he just quit chase the survivors or just Rage quit and the funny part is i can t be mad about it because i understand the pain when someone play with him... By the way i faced Trutalent youtuber and he is a really good playing killer and i still got only hooked 1 time and escaped... Its fun play with the dredge yes a little but its not a killer that i fear to face... I fear more playing against The Nurse than a Chicken...
Well Nurse is literally the strongest killer in the game. So of course she is still noticeably better than Dredge.
BUt I just can't agree. If the Dredge is played well, his decent anti-loop and his great map pressure make him a strong killer that can keep up with good survivors. And whenever Nightfall hits in, he becomes a very big threat.
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@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996531#Comment_2996531
"why on earth wouldn't survivors hop back on gen A?"
because with Dredge, i know where survivors are and i stick around to regress the gens more than they can work on them. By the time they've moved, I've regressed the previously worked on gen and i'm ready to move on to wherever the survivors went. Like, there's no moment when I don't know where they are when there's 3 gens left because teleporting gives so much information on top of making me move fast.
remember, survivors have to walk to generators too, they're not magically there. So if i always know which gen they're trying to work on and can be there within 12 seconds, they can't do jack #########.
i think you're misunderstanding how you'd play with a 30 second recharge rate on stacks which add up to 3 stacks. You're saying you'd have to wait 60 seconds to teleport twice in a row... yeah that's the dumbest way to possible use that kind of mechanic. The idea here is that you CAN teleport 3 times in quick succession, but obviously if you do so you'll get a longer cooldown afterwards. By the time you've done 3 teleports in a row, you likely almost have another charge again due to time passing since your first teleport.
The idea with is that you save quick teleporting for when it matters, but you won't be able to teleport every 12 seconds for the entirety of the match, which honestly is broken AF.
Yeah I do get that part, but I still think it's way too much, because there will be situations, especially early on, where you are going to use yout teleport more frequently. And I am absolutely certain BHVR will not nerf dredge this hard.
I really need to know though, are you using Call of Brine with him? You realise it takes 40 seconds to regress 10 seconds of gen progress, and that's only when one survivor is working on the gen? How are you staying close to one gen that long, without survivors just finishing another gen? Any smart survivor team will split up on at least two different gens.
There is no way that works against good survivors, not even withg Call of Brine. And as I said, in many cases, you won't have lockers right next to gens, and you won't have one gen right between the other two gens, so you can hear the third gen that you are just passing.
During Nightfall of course his map pressure becomes stronger, and he can definitely defend gens very effectively, of course at the cost of downing survivors most likely, if he is really just teleporting from one gen to another.
In general though this all just doesn't add up. 12 seconds of cooldown is not broken at all, and it seems like most people agree with that. The more I play with him, t he more I think his basekit is totally fine. The only thing I could see needing a nerf in the future is his Nightfall, aside maybe from a few minor aspects, but maybe they'll also just increase the time it takes to activate Nightfall, or the duration of Nightfall, we'll see.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2997027#Comment_2997027
Oh yes.. that 0.25 to 0.5 seconds change they did to Deathslinger was so miniscule that it didn't change his play rate at all did it? It didn't make him feel clunky and awful to use at all /s
Just because you have problems with slow reactions or thinking ahead, doesn't mean other people do.
All these "small" changes turn into a massive change that destroys the killer and makes them feel awful and clunky to play. There is a reason nobody plays artist and it isn't because she's not viable.
It's definitely not the same. Survivors can think ahead and react fast all they want, but if they are forced into the remnant without the pallet being nearby, they won't be able to mindgame your remnant, if line of sight isn't broken that is.
Artist I guess is a fair point, though I am not sure if it's really her being clunky or her just not having the most interesting gameplay for many? I mean she is another ranged killer in a game filled with those, although she does have a unique twist to that formula.
I don't know, I enjoy playing her a lot.
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@TunnelVision said:
The entire reason i've not even bought him.
Waiting to see if enough people whine and complain to the point he becomes a joke like half the killer roster.
These suggested nerfs would definitely not turn him into a joke.
And not half the roster is a joke. A fair amount of them are may be not quite viable at the highest level of play, but they are not a joke either.
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This is definitely a skill issue, sorry to tell you. The Dredge is not a weak killer, easily A tier, his map pressure is great, his teleport definitely shouldn't be any faster, it's already fast enough considering the relatively low cooldown.
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@Slan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2997181#Comment_2997181
There IS a mindgame using the remnant, I have seen it. Again, there is a small window in which dredge cannot do anything but watch the survivor comming towards it or fleeing from it, and that also applies to comming out from lockers. And if another survivor is close by and destroys the remnant, then the antiloop is over. So making the remnant TP slower would basically end it's purpose and nobody would use it, making dredge a mere stealth killer and one of the weakest in the game. The same applies to bloodlust, when charging tp, he becomes much more slower and he will need to catch up if The survivors change loop or press w. Those nerfs would remove his chase potential completely.
Ah it's very small though. I have to admit, when you place the remnant close to a pallet, then there is indeed a mindgame, I got mindgamed by a really good survivor player today myself. But if you use it further away from the pallet, then there isn't really a mindgame, because the survivors can't make it back to the pallet before getting a hit against them.
On the other hand, in that case, survivors can just use the other side of the pallet loop, as pallets are generally always surrounded by two loops. So perhaps you are right, maybe he does have enough good counterplay. But I still firmly believe that increasing the teleportation time to the remnant to 0,6 seconds or so would not make it useless. There would just be a bit more mindgame potential.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Why does Dredge need nerfs?
There's no point of trying to stop dredge from camping when bubba already does that better. If players want to camp, they are gonna play bubba, not dredge.
I don't think nightfall should be nerfed. Yes it is straining for some people but i see this as an issue with the game having almost no customisation with brightness slider or nightfall sfx slider.
Your suggested nerfs to the anti-loop would make it unviable in a lot of situations
The bloodlust thing may be a bug but it counters hold W which is a good thing IMO
Again i ask why dredge needs nerfed when there is still a lot of killers better than the Dredge. Like The Hag. The Nurse. The Huntress. The Artist. The Blight. Etc.
I think he is A tier killer, on par with other strong killers, like Huntress or Hag.
These nerfs are just meant to iron out a few potential frustrations with him, they surely wouldn't move him a tier down.
Regarding the remnant nerf, you are maybe right. I am not sure on that yet, but he definitely does already have good counterplay.
I definitely still think that his tunneling potential should be nerfed. Yes, Bubba is better at camping, although this more about tunneling anyways, but I still think it's always healthy for that part of a killers kit to be as weak as possible.
I also don't think he needs bloodlust to counter w, he does have his lockers for that, at least in some situations.
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@CashelP14 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2992185#Comment_2992185
I remember people saying he was really weak on release lol
To the OP I don't agree with a lot of the nerfs. I like killers that are easy to play but also decently strong. The only nerf I really agree with is the no bloodlust while using remnant. I'd also personally like a slight audio cue for anyone near the dredge (12 metres) to let them know he's left a remnant behind.
The anti-tunnelling part I have no option on since I haven't faced a proper tunnelling dredge yet. Maybe in the future I'd agree.
Lucky you, I already went against a few tunneling and camping Dredges.
But fair enough. I thought there was an audio cue for his remnant though. Maybe not him dropping it, though you can tell he is holding the remnant because of his animation, but I thought you could hear his remnant when in close range. But maybe I am mistaking.
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@DootLord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/327542/every-nerf-that-dredge-needs
Vs good survivors dredge can't do anything. He's got his anti-loop but it's still very readable. Dredge is fine, if the game was balanced around high MMR he needs a buff but it's not so he'll be left as is.
Definitely can't agree with that. He is definitely one of the killers that is capable of doing well at high MMR. Of course you will have to put a lot of effort in as killer players as well.
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@Risky_Biscuit said:
Every nerf that Dredge needs:
- A slight reduction to the darkness in Nightfall for Survivors.
This is the only nerf I could genuinely see him needing, as yes, sometimes it really is too dark for survivors. I personally don't think a 60-80 second power really needs any nerfs, but I can still see why people are asking for it. If this does happen, I'm fine with it as long as it's only a slight change and we never go back to the joke that was the PTB version of Nightfall. That was hilariously god awful, so I'm thankful it was just a bug that was fixed when Dredge came to live. Other than that, Dredge is fine. He has counterplay that survivors can't just perform by hiding or looping like normal. I think he's balanced honestly. It's nice to have a killer that can actually do what killers are meant to do, so even if he isn't S tier, he's still great, fun to play, and still has counters. Survivors just need to learn not to loop him (because he has a countermeasure for that), or hide from him (because nightfall lights them up). It's a learning curve like with any and every new killer.
Yeah, maybe that's enough, at least to a degree. Although I surely won't change my mind on the tunneling and Bloodlust nerf.
But you are right, there is definitely a learning curve for survivors against this killer. I had one match today where the survivors were really good, wish I would have played that match better myself. His chase gameplay is actually pretty damn fun to me, if the survivors are good.
But a lot of survivors seem like they still have stuff to figure out when going against Dredge.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2997034#Comment_2997034
I mean this will just remove the one situation where the remnant is actually good, which is in isolated loops at the corner of the map. I don't think making the remnant even weaker everywhere else will stop people from holding W to the next loop, which would still be safer than risking the mindgame in a loop.
That's fair, but I wouldn't say it would make it weak. It would just give survivors a bit of mindgame potential, but I'm sure the mindgame would still be in your favor.
To be fair, I said I wasn't sure about the change, and today I had a match where I am pretty sure I teleported in the right moment, but the survivor doubled back in the right moment and still made the pallet, so maybe I am wrong about that nerf. It seems like placing the remnant right at a pallet at least has some counterplay.
In general, camping pallets or predropping them also belongs to counterplay against Dredge. So who knows, maybe you are right. I still wanted to throw the suggestion out there.
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It's not, it's the other way around if anything, easier way to win with less effort. I hope it gets nerfed soon.
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@Slan said:
Dredge is fine for me. If survivors are inteligente enough they can avoid him, as when he stops using the remnant he is not able to do a thing for a little bit on time while still being slow, so the survivor can win distance. Then mindgaming him into using his tp by faking going to places leaves him on cooldown for a while, while his tp is kinda slow most times. But survivors do not want to think anymore. It seems, they just want to Tbag and click without giving the killer a chance to answer back.
So the thing is, if the Dredge can see the survivor while they are looping the pallet loop that you placed your remnant at, there is no mindgame. Because he can just teleport right before the survivor runs into the remnant, and get a guaranteed hit. That's the one thing I would like to change, by increasing the time it takes to teleport back to his remnant, there would actually be a mindgame, at least at medium and small sized pallet loops.
To be fair, it is quite early to say whether he needs that nerf or not, but I do think that it would improve his chase gameplay just a bit more, even though I already think it's pretty good.
However, nerfs like canceling Bloodlust when he charges his power I think is a no-brainer, it doesn't take long to realise that probably shouldn't be a thing. Again, not a noticeable nerf, but it's needed.
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@Fnatic47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/327542/every-nerf-that-dredge-needs
Bro the Dredge is already a Nerf himself...
What on earth are you talking about?
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They won't do this because of people like you, that think killers that are actually strong are "broken" to then just dodge the killers. Potentially trying to only get killers that are weak so you don't have to put nearly as much effort into winning a match.
Though to be fair, it's hard to argue with Nurse, she is rather overpowered, but Dredge not so much.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Increase the time it takes to teleport back to your remnant from 0,25 seconds to 0,6 s
The weakest part of his kit doesn't need any more counterplay. The bloodlust thing sure, but this is too much. If anything I think cancelling the power should be quicker, or his movement speed needs to not be slowed after teleporting.
The rest is whatever.
I definitely disagree with the buffs, but I can understand why people wouldn't want the remnant nerfed. I just think it would allow for another counterplay option, so survivors could also try and loop you, by mindgaming your remnant. Currently this is only possible when the loop breaks line of sight, I just think more counterplay options is always better. THe remnant teleport would still be strong, survivors would just have another option of counterplay in addition to chaining pallet loops or just running away from the loop in general.
I am happy if they just remove the bloodlust gain while using his power though, which is a must in my opinion.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995013#Comment_2995013
You think his anti loop is op and want to gut it into uselessness so, that says enough.
Increasing the teleport time to his remnant from 0,25 seconds to 0,6 seconds will gut it into uselessnes? Lmao what?
You don't seem to know how counterplay in a game like DBD works it seems like. All this would do is give survivors a bit of a chance to run around the loop the other way when Dredge teleports, and to get to the pallet in time, if they can predict the moment he teleports perfectly. It would certainly not gut his anti-loop in any way thinkable. It would be a very small nerf in fact, and I don't reallly think his anti-loop is op, I just think design wise, it would be better, because it would allow for more interesting counterplay while looping.
What an insane exaggeration. But to be fair this forum is filled with people like you, both among killer and survivor mains.
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@neb said:
Sadako C tier, and Dredge high A tier,
people seriously under estimate how good dredge's antiloop is in some loops. It literally makes you get a guaranteed hit.
Vrey map and loop dependent, but yeah, when survivor has no where else to go, it can give you a guaranteed hit. Still kind of wish there was a bit of a mindgame involved when looping.
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Dredge is A tier, probably in the middle, though maybe even in the higher end.
Sadako is C tier.
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@Mister_xD said:
Dredge is literally 3 days old.
Stop asking for nerfs immediately and give people some time to actually learn to play with and against it first.
Also, you're literally asking to nerf everything he has. You wanna hit his map pressure, Nightfall and chase ability all in once? really?
That's a hard no from me.
Lmao don't just look at the quantity of his nerfs, but the effectivenes. Some of these changes don't need a lot of testing. There is not much to learn about countering his tunneling potential for example, that's BS. Meanwhile, Bloodlust shouldn't ever stay active when a killer uses his power, it's no different with Dredge, and I hope it's just an oversight that will be fixed soon.
My suggestions to toning down Nightfall also aren't even necessarily a nerf, as the intended effect would be the same, it would just tone down the visual effects that make it unnecessarily hard for some people to see what they are still intended to see.
The only two more noticeable nerfs, that might not be needed admittedily, are the nerfs to his remnant and teleportation cooldown during Nightfall. The latter one wouldn't be a big deal at all, as 8 seconds is still not much. I guess maybe 6 seconds could also work, I just personally think 4 seconds is a bit extreme, because it is basically no cooldown at all. Although I get that was probably the intention.
The former I am not 100% sure is needed, but I do think it would improve him gameplay wise, because it would give survivors one more counterplay option at medium to small sized loops. And in my opinion, the more counterplay options both sides have at any given time, the better. And since Dredge already has different counterplay, this would nerf him only just a very small bit, since it would encourage survivors to sometimes try and loop him, and then mindgame his remnant, instead of running away from the loop and chaining pallet loops.
All of these nerfs together would still only have a pretty small impact on him.
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@Zozzy said:
Bruh...............
Ah yes good comment.
None of these nerfs are in any particularly impactful.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
I agree with everything except the remnant nerf. Chaining loops, pre dropping and W keying are already pretty strong counters because of the massive movement speed penalty dredge gets while upholding the remnant and unlike killers like artist it also can't get hits over pallets and windows. So the counterplay is already there.
That's fair, happy to see you agree with the other nerfs. I do think the remnant nerf would make him even better from a gameplay standpoint, because I do think the more counterplay both sides have when a certain killer is in play, the better that killer is designed. Which is why I think Demogorgon is liked by so many people. But I do agree that he has a fair amount of other counterplay, so I am not completely sure about it myself.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995084#Comment_2995084
Problem with haddon is that the loop is so big, that any attempt to change direction allows the survivor to just move to another building.
That's fair, though I think if you do it at the right time, because survivors don't have line of sight, you can make them hesitate a bit.
I guess all I can say is that I haven't experienced any problem with the map yet myself.
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@Wampirita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2994995#Comment_2994995
Eyrie spawns 14-15 pallets (legit went to custom multiple times to count) . It's less than some Azarov maps :D
Wow ok, I am positive it has spawned more for me often enough. But I am sure there is some rng involved, so sometimes it might have just felt like it was more, probably because pretty much every pallet except for a handful are completely safe.
I still enjoy the game map more than Eyrie as killer though, even though both are bad.
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@MommyHunktress said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995165#Comment_2995165
I mean you have a point, but why does everyone think that gens are done in 5 minutes all the time? half the time killers make the wrong choices and dont end chases fast enough. not everyone is in a swf, so that perk set up is great and fair, until you have a game of solo who dont even sweat or know what theyre doing, hence why things should be balanced. i cant wait for DH to be gonzo and the meta changes
You are right to an extent. Gens go fast, so I do think slowdown builds are op, unless maybe used on Blight and Nurse. But gens going in 5 minutes is also an exaggeration, and a sign that you didn't play that well as killer. There's definitely a middle ground there. i personally also don't think this game is really survivor sided, because tunneling and camping exist.
My hope is that we'll see some form of early game slowdown built into the base game. Maybe also a small gen regression buff? Alongside as many tunneling and camping nerfs as possible hopefully, so those strategies are not viable anymore.
And then they can nerf slowdown perks, just like they will nerf the meta perks on the survivor side. This upcoming perk update could be the biggest and best update for this game ever, but at the same time I don't want to get my hopes up too much.
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@H2H said:
The reasoning is that if someone is unhooked during EGC and has DS, it’s basically a guaranteed escape even if they’re downed. If you pick them up, they hit DS and escape. If you don’t pick them up, they either crawl out or are healed. Killers basically have no options.
To use survivor mains’ favorite complaint: “there’s no counterplay.”
You can just go for one of the other survivors attempting to unhook, best of all the one that actually unhooks. There is counterplay.
Why should killers have a fair chance to get a 4K otherwise if survivors don't have a fair chance of getting a 4-man escape? What kind of double standard is that?
Without DS and BT, the chances of all 4 survivors getting is extremely low. Because once all gens pop, the killer will most likely be chasing someone, and be able to down them before they get to the exit gates after they have been opened.
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It shouldn't. The idea here is that killers need some chance to defend a hook during endgame, that crap.
But the truth is, if the killer camps a survivor during endgame, the chances of all survivors escaping without DS or BT are pretty much 0. Why should survivors not have a fair chance of getting a 4-man escape if killers have a good chance of getting a 4k?
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@MommyHunktress said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995182#Comment_2995182
yeah his locker tp during nightfall is strong, you cant always tell if he is doing it during nightfall
Very true, but it has counterplay. Remember, survivors need counterplay, but one that is based on prediction. If it's based purely on reaction, then that means survivors can counterplay in a way that guarantees them to be succesful, which means the killer himself doesn't have counterplay against the survivor.
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@DEMONANCE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995161#Comment_2995161
pyramid head falls apart cuz he has no map pressure , no good addons , kind of an annoying power to use and aim and that power gives survivors more counterplay than that of nemesis'
imo pyramid head definitely needs to be looked at again and be made better.
Pyramid Head played well is one of the killer with the least counterplay, except maybe for Nurse. He does have counterplay, but it's rather limited. As soon as a survivor is stuck in an animation, you will almost always get a guaranteed hit, unless the limited turn rate hinders you.
Pyramid Head's chase potential is one of the very best in the entire game, except again for Nurse maybe. It shoots through anything, and makes the safets pallets completely useless. In fact, an interesting attribute to Pyramid Head is that, generally, the safer the pallet, the weaker it is against Pyramid Head.
He also has a bit of map pressure. He can tunnel like no other killer, avoiding DS and BT for the most part. And if the survivor is tormented, he also doesn't have to waste time picking survivors up, so he has more time patrolling gens.
Pyramid Head is incredibly strong. He does not need buffs. He might need some changes. I would love if his addons all got buffed so they had an impact. I also wouldn't mind if the spawn delay of his shock wave was decreased just tad. But only if the cooldown after canceling his power is increased, to allow for a bit more counterplay on survivors side, and if survivors lost their tormented status effect when hooked. No killer needs further incentives to tunnel than they already have.
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@BastardKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2993137#Comment_2993137
Yes, literally has no counterplay. Someone mentioned stuff survivors can do that disables it, or that you can slug, but leaving someone slugged is literally not playing. Letting them run off and do something is not playing. "CounterPLAY" implies there is something the killer can do to stop the perk from working. If the exit gates are open and the survivor can crawl out before DS runs out, they are literally invincible. That is what having no counterplay means.
Not tunneling is indeed the counterplay. That's the entire point of the perk. Are you telling you are mad the perk does anything at all?
Tunneling and camping is beyond unfun for survivors, and we will hopefully see more counters to those strategies in survivors base kit soon enough.
Also, perks don't need counterplay that make them not have any effect at all. Do killer perks have that? Like what the hell? Also, leaving the survivor on the ground means they are just lying there doing nothing, so that is indeed effective. In fact, DS could be seen as one of the perks with the most counterplay, because as a killer you can prevent survivors from using it.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995910#Comment_2995910
The teleport is overpowered. I would make locked lockers take triple as long as they do now for him to escape them. The cool down should also be longer by base (maybe 25 seconds per teleport usage, which would also make it a more meaningful decision whether or not you use up to all three charges). Certain lockers should never be traversable (shack if it has basement, lockers in and near other basement spawns, and any immediately next to exit gates). Would also consider him only being able to traverse lockers by first going near one, so it can’t be spammed on demand like it can now.
And for how powerful Nightfall is, I think it would be more fair if survivors were given a visual indicator (like Freddy or Pinhead) of how long before it starts.
So 9 seconds to break a lock on a locker? And 25 second cooldown. Plus those other nerfs.
He'd be the worst killer ever created. Like there are a few parts that I think could maybe need some very small nerfs. Like Bloodlust canceling as soon as he starts charging his power. But this?
9 seconds to break out of a locker? At that point the survivor is on the other side of the map lmao. And then 25 seconds cooldown after teleporting? On an ability that is used for both map mobility and chase?
This might be the most ridiculous nerf suggestion I have ever read. Out of curiousity, what killers do you consider balanced, and which overpowered?
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@KateMain86 said:
Yep. I agree with the OP and I'm a survivor main. I think people aren't really giving dredge a chance. He is so much different from all the other killers and has certainly been more fun to play against. Every time I visit the forum since the dredge released I see more complaints about him and I just don't get it. I'm usually quick to gripe about killers being OP but in this case I really like what they did with the dredge. I don't know. It seems like the devs just can't win no matter how hard they try. Maybe its just the nature of the game being PVP and there being so many different views on what is considered balanced in this game.
That's not uncommon though. He is new, and I would argue his counterplay is probably more unique than that of many other killers, so some people just haven't learnt how to counterplay him yet.
I think in general he is extremely well balanced, I have a lot fun going against him, just a shame I don't get to go against him more often, there are just a few minor parts of his kit that could need some small toning down, like Nightfall being too dark even within the visibility range, or him still gaining Bloodlust while using his power.
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995890#Comment_2995890
The Devs nerfed Wraith.
Their opinions are meaningless, they do NOT play their own game.
Lmao that's just ridiculous. Even if I don't always agree with every balance change they make, their opinions are not meaningless? plus I was talking about the people that you said should be ignored, those that think Dredge needs a nerf.
The devs have actually have done a fairly good job at balancing the killers in the past. And I understand why they nerfed Wraith, because he is fairly easy to play, and was probably a menace at lower ranks.
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@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2994959#Comment_2994959
I don't know what to tell you really, from my experience the cooldown is short enough to regress all remaining gens.
let's say there's 3 gens remaining, Gen A, B and C. What you do is stand at Gen A, you teleport to the locker closest to Gen C while making sure to pass through Gen B. This way you're putting pressure on all 3 gens simultaneously, because.. You have Gen A covered, and you hear if survivors are at Gen B, and you're about to be at Gen C. You never have to search for survivors to be at the correct place. And 12 second cooldown on a teleport is a joke. I didn't realize it was that low.
Imo the cooldown needs to be much higher to fix this issue. Something like 30 seconds. But in some situations this will be too much. It's only really needed to prevent the constant gen pressure
So here's my suggestion: You know how he has teleport charges? You usually use this to teleport additional times between lockers. Instead, allow Dredge to teleport with a very short cooldown for as long as he has charges, but each charge takes something like 30 seconds to recharge.
For example, if you then have 3 teleport charges, you can teleport 3 times on a short cooldown, but it'll take you 30 seconds to get each charge back. This way, you'd be more encourages to follow up on chases, and would make it harder to gen camp like i've been doing.
About me being good? I'm really not. I am pretty bad as killer, 90% of my playtime is as survivor but i try killer from time to time. Most of the gen grabs I've gotten happen when i teleport to an unlocked locker around a corner from the generator, during nightfall, and then i just go in for the grab. I have to admit that when I play as survivor, I can't always hear him during nightfall either, there's so many weird ambience noises and it's super dark, so i understand people messing up like that
30 second cooldown would throw this killer right into the trash bin, but you realise this yourself.
The idea with charges taking 30 seconds is also too extreme in my opinion. Though to be fair, I do get the idea behind it, being able to teleport up to three times with very low cooldown, but being balanced by the higher downtimes Dredge would sometimes have on his teleport, to force him to go for chases or patrol gens like an M1 killer. But this would nerf him too much in my opinion. 60 seconds with no teleport, just so you can teleport twice again? That would hurt his map pressure way too much. Not to mention that his locker teleport is used for chases as well, to counter holding w. It's one of the aspects that makes his chases so interesting.
Keeping all that in mind, 20 seconds would maybe work, with a base cooldown of 8 or 10 seconds to his teleport in general (you can't make his base teleport, such as his remnant teleport, have too little of a cooldown, or outplaying him with his remnant wouldn't have enough impact), but even that might be a bit much, killers need good map pressure, and he uses his locker teleport for chases as well.
It would also make the part where he can teleport from one locker to the next using his charges completely obsolete, unless those would be affected by other charges? And I doubt the devs would want that.
12 seconds is definitely enough in my opinion. Demogorgon has a 10 second cooldown on his teleport. If you just regress the gen A, and then teleport to gen C, why on earth wouldn't survivors hop back on gen A? Even if survivors are working on gen B, he will have to walk to gen B from where he teleported to near gen C. If a survivor is at gen C, and he kicks it to regress it, a good survivor will just hop back on gen C. Or the Dredge commits to a survivor at gen C, then he won't be able to defend gen B or A. After 12 seconds, he can teleport back to gen A or B, however one also has to take the travel time into consideration. Again, he comes out of the locker, and if he just kicks the gen, to then patrol other gens, any survivor at gen A will just hop back on it.
He will need to put time into chasing survivors, hitting them, and at some point also downing them, picking them up and carrying them to a hook. Survivors will still be able to do gens despite his great map pressure.
And this is also only when gen B is somewhere right between A and C, which is not common. You have to move pretty close to gen B while teleporting to hear if someone is working on it or not, because the teleport sound itself is quite loud. Not to mention that in many cases, gens don't spawn right next to lockers, only close. And survivors can just wait and lock lockers during the late game as well.
I can maybe see BHVR increase the cooldown to 15 or 16 seconds, but that's it. And probably only if the upcoming perk update will add some form of basekit slowdown into the game. But 30 seconds per charge never.
I guess not having to wait for all 3 charges to be recharged would balance this out a bit. But it still seems so overboard, because at some point, dredge will only have one charge, he teleports, and now he has to wait almost 30 seconds to use his teleport again. Or I spend 45 seconds wondering around the map as an M1 killer with no map pressure, just so I don't have to wait so long for my next teleport after I teleport once. It's just way too long. And even though I obviously don't know what BHVR plans, I am pretty sure that they will not nerf his teleport like that. It already goes against the design philosphy of Dredge.
Like why would they want to make their new killer too weak, especially one they obviously put so much effort into? And why wouldn't they not just nerf his remnant teleportation first, to allow survivors for even more counterplay during chases? Or tone down his Nightfall, where he is particularly strong? Map pressure is something that should always be a good part of a killers basekit. Killers without map pressure suffer greatly, unless they have an insane anti-loop power, like Pyramid Head. And even he still has a bit of map pressure in form of not needing to hook survivors, and his immense tunneling potential.
Also, not once have I been caught off guard by a Dredge during Nightfall. You can always hear him from a decent range, and see him. You simply have to pay attention. He also makes a loud noise when exiting a locker, that can be heard within a decent range. So I have absolutely no clue how you were able to get those gen grabs. Since you yourself said you aren't an experienced killer player, and don't play killer a lot, it's very likely your killer mmr is just very low at the moment, too low thanks to your experience with killer as survivor.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. And you even have said you enjoyed your times against Dredge. But I would advise you to play more and increase your mmr on killer. Again, I am not sure if Dredge might need a cooldown increase to 15 seconds or so, but I think you'll notice that survivors can still get gens done despite his map pressure, if they play well enough.
I am not against nerfs to Dredge, because I can't say for sure if he is perfectly balanced or a tad overtuned, but I am positive Dredge doesn't need any big nerfs, if anything, just very small ones. My favorite idea still being a small time increase when teleporting back to your remnant, so survivors have a bit of mindgame potential when looping Dredge at pallet loops that don't break line of sight.
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You know, thematically I think it's fun, and kind of creepy. But balance wise I am not sure how much I like it. It only happens very rarely, but when it happens, it can just shift the momentum of a match with literally no player skill involved.
I also have seen someone use it to a nice effect together with his new locker perk, which I also thought seemed a bit busted.
In general it shouldn't discourage you to lock lockers though, because the likeliness for that to happen is generally very low.
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@GoshJosh said:
Sluzzy, I agree Dredge needs a nerf.. but Devour Hope? Don’t we we want more perks like it, that encourage not camping and tunneling? It won’t even activate if the killer stays too close to a hooked survivor, and you won’t get enough tokens if you keep going for the same survivor. It needs a little bit more early game protection, I would say. And that’s it.
What exactly would you nerf about Dredge?
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@CluelessWanderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995900#Comment_2995900
Bit of both. I can only see like, an arm's length in front of my survivor, and what little is visible is very dark. Not a big deal if I'm on a generator but in a chase I constantly bump into objects, can't see a vault unless I'm right on top of it etc. It's way more frustrating than "scary".
Have you compared that to videos on youtube? For me, you can see what feels like 12 to 16 meters far. More 12 probably. It's not far, and it makes finding pallet loops in chases more difficult, but it's definitely manageable and I personally love it, and I definitely don't buno into objects when running.
But an "arm's length" certainly doesn't sound like 12 to 16 meters, so I find that quite weird. It sounds like part of what should be visible is too dark because the lighting isn't bright enough. I definitely agree that the devs should look into that.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995813#Comment_2995813
Devour Hope came out when survivors were way more able to finish gens. Twice as many pallets, killers didn't have massive slowdown perks, protection totems, and tracking perks. It was very common to get the gens done when Hag came out, now it basically never happens unless the killer is extremely bad.
Devour Hope doesn't make sense now when killers are way overpowered and seeing 5 gens get done is like winning the lottery. On Dredge, it basically breaks the game because he knows everything, can get to everywhere instantly, has anti-loop and prevent survivors from even seeing the map. It's too much.
Dredge knows everything? Lmao what even does that mean? He also can't get everywhere instantly, I know you claim that you have played with Dredge but it doesn't seem that way.
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@CluelessWanderer said:
I think Devour Hope is fine. It's scary as hell when it pops, but it can be countered, and it's quite a gamble for a Killer to bring it.
Playing as a Solo survivor against Dredge for the first time this weekend and I have to say, the Nightfall is way too dark. I play on console (which is darker on every map than PC) and I can barely see a damn thing during Nightfall. To have to deal with that for a full minute is a bit too much imo. My rando team mates were d/c'ing or suiciding on the hook. They have to make it at least playable. There's a middle ground between what we saw on the PTB and almost complete darkness like now.
Is it the visibility range that is too narrow in your opinion? Or is it that you can't even properly see within the visibility range because the lighting is too dark?