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@Lentara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2993147#Comment_2993147
I play with friends and they have a lot more time in the game than I do, and even they confirm that the new assassin is too strong and I have given enough reasons why this is so. If we have problems with a completely "own" group, even though we have a discord, can you imagine what random groups do? 1 second (with addon) to get out of a locked cabinet is crazy, it's too strong. Also, the portal that he places does not give a noticeable decrease in speed. I dropped the palette and started running around it, but he set up a portal and it became impossible for me, so I tried to run to another palette, but he still caught up with me very quickly even without teleporting through the lockers. And when he chases you during the night and does the same thing, it’s basically impossible to run away even with a certain perk, when you see the nearest palettes and windows, it just doesn’t work. Isn't that enough to nerf a killer? And I repeat again - why do we need Sadako if the new killer has the same abilities as her, but much better?
It's 2 seconds with the addon, not 1. Normal time is 3 seconds, which is definitely long enough, and the addon decreases it by 1 second.
To be fair, that addon I can definitely see being nerfed just slightly in the future, easily one of his strongest addons.
Dredge definitely has a fair amount of counterplay. People have been counterplaying me in chase often enough as well. Not saying I would be against giving him a bit of counterplay while looping him, I've suggested increasing the time it takes to teleport to his remnant to like 0,5+ seconds or so myself, but he does have a good amount of counterplay outside of simple looping. Dredge's chase potential is decently strong, but nothing crazy. The only thing they have to change for sure is him still gaining Bloodlust despite charging and even using his power.
Sadako also isn't a good comparison, because almost everyone agrees she is really weak. The solution here is not to nerf Dredge, but to buff Sadako.
@Lentara said:
As you know, Nurse is the weakest and strongest cbian, it all depends on your personal skill and how you got used to this character. The new killer though has a teleportation system but you don't need to have any skill to do -4.
Have you played him? He definitely doesn't have a skill floor even close to Nurse, but playing him well is not that easy. He definitely takes some skill, especially if you want to play him optimally. I would argue his skill ceiling is actually fairly high, because it depends a lot on prediction, and very good map awareness.
@Lentara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2993643#Comment_2993643
Is complaining bad? I hi enough arguments. I know that 99% of killer miners will never admit that some killer is too strong🤡
After all, yes, a killer who teleports as many times as he likes over long distances, who sees the auras of players 8 meters from the lockers of which there are a lot on the whole map and they are most often next to generators, who blocks the ability to abuse the palette simply by placing a portal there, which does not give survivors orient themselves in space during the night - all this is of course normal and playing against such a killer is a pleasure, yeah. And I came here just to cry for no reason👏
Other people have enough arguments here as well. The cop out argument of people only being killer mains, not wanting to accept that a killer is too strong, is not going to do you much service though.
His teleport has a 12 second cooldown, and it's not that fast. Survivors can lock lockers once, and most of the time, lockers are near generators, but not right next to them. There are also always some people that think a killer is too op after he releases. That's nothing new. Although I do think his Nightfall needs to be toned down a bit.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
I agree for the most part Nightfall is just a lame mechanic with an extremely ear grating ambient noise and is unbearable because my TV is broken and has permanently low brightness to begin with
They defintely should make the actual visibility radius around a survivor brighter, because I am pretty sure the intended effect is only to not be able to see outside of that range.
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@Rogue11 said:
I don't see how the devs plan on balancing the core game around killers like Clown and Ghostface, while adding killers with way stronger kits. Infinite on-demand teleport, 2 different anti-loop abilities, 115% move speed, and an "oh s***", Pinhead-style event that occurs multiple times with no way for survivors to prevent/delay it.
Oh and let's make sure there are 4 lockers next to every gen just in case you were thinking of finding one spot where you wouldn't give an instant free hit to the killer.
No I don't enjoy playing against him..
Why would they balance the game around killers like Clown or Ghost Face? They would have to nerf like 75% of their killer roaster, if not even more.
I can however definitely see killers like Dredge getting a small nerf if killer ever get some baseline buff, like some slowdown. No idea what they would do with a killer like Nurse, but Dredge is easy, just increase the cooldown of his teleport a bit. And/or increase the time it takes to teleport to his remnant very slightly, giving survivors slightly more mindgame potential while looping.
But I would never expect some baseline changes that buff killers so much, so that Clown or Ghost Face would become viable. That would require so many changes to so many killers, or the game would be really killer sided.
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@TeleportingTurkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2993651#Comment_2993651
holding w was very efficient against uninteractive antiloop powers, indeed, too bad this still was possibly the least fun thing to do
Chaining pallet loops isn't boring, not to me at least. I wouldn't just call it holding w.
The fact that he can teleport to lockers also makes holding w not just a simple task of actually only holding w. Mindgames are possible. And there are possibly some other things you can do against him.
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BHVR doesn't only make killers that are unfun to go against, your opinion isn't that of everyone. I for one really enjoy going against him, he is a lot of fun. I find his counterplay so far to be fun and engaging, even if it could be improved just a tad more.
He seems pretty balanced, except for a few minor nitpicks. And I find him to be one BHVR's best killer designs yet. Of course not everyone will enjoy him, no killer is for everyone.
I do hope they tone down Nightfall to help people who seem to be struggling with it more than it is intended.
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@HexDaddyissues said:
killer mains REALLY want to be coddled huh?
alright then, make it so killers cant grab during a vault? that seems fair right?
I'm not sure what to tell you if you think this post is represetantive of killer mains.
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@BastardKing said:
"I know some people who don't use DS because they just can't hit the skill check, it's too hard for them."
*Take the zero counterplay perk and make it absolutely skill less so I can win while drunk.*
DS is a 0 counterplay perk? Lmao what?
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@Smeagolthevile said:
I cant disagree that she needs some tweaking. I'm working on a generator in the killer shack (no basement) and both of the lockers are locked. Greg teleports to the locker nearby to me that is locked. by the time I get to the door Greg has already broken out of the locker and is ontop of me for a hit.
Also the darkness + no heart beat during a chase may as well be a free hook for the killer, its so hard to handle both navigation and trying to keep your eye on them.
How is that even possible? It takes him 3 seconds in addition to the other time to get out of a locked locker. He shouldn't be up your ass in any way after that.
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I am almost positive that at least 95% of this community would completely ruin this game with their "balance ideas". This game has some serious problems, but fixing them is anything but simple, because the most problematic issues are dependent on on the game's fundamental design. And it's not either side that has problems, both sides have to fight with serious issues.
At the core, you have the problem of gen rush, camping and tunneling. But it goes much further. No matter how you balance the game, certain maps will end up being survivor sided or killer sided. Perks vary immensily in power. Such as killers. Buff killers in general, and you will absolutely need to find a way to nerf Blight and Nurse, and probably A tier killers as well.
This game's balance is all over the place at this point, and yes, BHVR is to fault for this, to a certain extent. But i do think balancing a game like this isn't nearly as simple as most people would want to believe it is.
BHVR made a lot of mistakes, but for a game like DBD, the game is actually not that badly balanced. Right now, I think the game's biggest problem is that it is balanced for the wrong reasons. And then of course there is the gap between solo and swf survivors, but I feel like that can be tackled once the game has been balanced in a more healthy way. If it ever gets that far.
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While I agree partially, I do think this will indeed just make tunneling easier. Probably won't change for a lot of people, but for newer players, it could make it a bit easier, and even that I feel is not that good.
If they ever finally nerf tunneling and camping enough, then I would fully agree.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Well, that was fast...
None of these nerfs need a lot of testing in my opinion though. Nerfing his tunneling potential a bit more is an absolute must, it doesn't take long to see that. Toning down Nightfall to not affect some people more than it is intended also seems like a no brainer to me. Just like canceling Bloodlust after charging your power, that being a thing is probably just an oversight.
The only nerf that might need more time is t he nerf to his remnant teleport. Fair enough, that's why I am also not completely sure it needs to happen, but at the same time, I think it would further improve him from a gameplay design point, and it would also not affect him much.
I guess the increased teleport cooldown duration during Nightfall is also a bit early to say, but 8 seconds is still not much at all.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2992185#Comment_2992185
I largely agree, but I do think him channeling the remnant should cancel bloodlust. Every other killer power resets bloodlust when used so it's just an inconsistency with his power that I would like to see fixed.
Yes thank you, I feel like it's probably just an oversight.
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@Thr_ust said:
Dredge is fine. Give it a couple weeks before we start asking for nerfs. I remember people thought nemesis was A tier when he first came out ffs.
That's fair, but I would argue none of these nerfs except the last one need a lot of testing. Bloodlust not deactivating after you charge your power is surely just an oversight. Nerfing his tunneling potential is just a no brainer, and toning down Nightfall so it doesn't do more than the intended effect is also a no brainer in my eyes, and I believe could even happen in a hotfix.
The nerf to his remnant teleport is the only more "advanced" nerf, which is why I also said I am not 100% positive about that nerf yet.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/327542/every-nerf-that-dredge-needs
I really hope Dredge doesn't get nerfed because I really like playing him. But I will admit, I do think he's a powerful killer, very close to Blight in power-level. However, if Blight and Nurse aren't being nerfed, then I don't think it would be fair to nerf Dredge.
Honestly, I don't understand BHVRs logic to nerfs anyway. Blight and Nurse have had a free pass on nerfs for a long time, then they go and nerf Deathslinger.
I mean that's fair. Blight and Nurse are overdue for a nerf anyways. But I seriously think that these small nerfs will not impact dredge in a big way, it's just to make sure he is fair for survivors at all times.
The only nerf that would be a bit noticeable I would argue is the nerf to his remnant teleport, and it taking 0,6 seconds or so would still keep it pretty strong at loops. I guess I just wouldn't mind if it didn't completely shut down medium and small sized loops. I'm fine with it shutting down big loops though, those allow survivors to chain loops very well anyways.
All the other suggested nerfs seem to be no brainers to me, that you can already tell even just after a few days, the Nightfall nerf and the tunneling nerf in particular. There's no reason for me to not implement these nerfs. To be fair bloodlust not deactivating after you start charging your power also just seems like an oversight to me.
I think the thing is that with Deathslinger, and Spirit as well, the main reason for the nerfs were because they had so little counterplay. It was less about their power level. Even though Nurse, and Blight with Hug tech and certain addons, are quite busted, they allow for counterplay. At least blight to some degree. Nurse it's more the fact that 98% of people don't play her optimally.
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It's probably because of the blindness effect. Honestly they should just remove the blindness effect and have it so mangled and hemorrhage stays until healed. Blindness during Nightfall is way too much in my opinion, at least for solo survivors.
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@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2990920#Comment_2990920
I have a question then: How can survivors do generators if the killer is constantly at all of the remaining ones?
this isn't an issue early game, but when there's only 3 or 4 generators left on the map.
The only thing the survivors can do at this point is try try to make me get into a chase so the others can work on generators.
But here's the thing. I'm the killer, I choose when to chase. I know that if I spend time chasing, they spend time finishing the last generator.
The problem occurs when I can reach all 3 generators in 15-20 seconds repeatedly and regress any little progress that was done. All that I have to do is to teleport in this pattern: (K = killer, G = Generator, L = Locker, ---> teleport path)
K --- G --------- G ------> (L) .. G
When teleporting with Dredge, you HEAR everything happening during your movement. So I hear exactly which generator is being worked on, or where any injured survivors are. So I get to hear every location that matters during the last push for the survivors, hence I am always where i'm needed to stop any progress they made. If a chase lasts for more than 10 seconds, I stop. Go back to gen camping.
the teleport is much stronger than people give it credit, due to it serving as both information + quick movement, with short cooldown.
He can't. If he wants to down a survivor, he will have to commit to chasing one for at least a bit. And he does have 12 second cooldown on his teleport. His teleport is also not instant. Dredge is not at all generators at once, simply not.
To be fair, I do think the cooldown during Nightfall should be increased from 4 to 8 seconds, because 4 seconds is pretty much no cooldown at all, which is a bit much in my opinion. But it's still not that crazy, because again, its not like you are just teleporting to lockers and then injure survivors within 1 second. Good survivors will make you waste a bit of time. In most cases, lockers also don't spawn right on gens, but only very close to them.
I still think that certain killers are better at 3 genning than Dredge.
Who knows, maybe he will need a very small cooldown nerf. I wouldn't mind it being increased to 15 or 16 seconds foe example. Though anything above that would be too much in my opinion, because his anti-loop shares the same cooldown. Unless you add two different cooldowns to his remnant and locker teleport. But I think that will only be necessary if we actually do get some baseline slowdown for killers with a future update. Then I could see his map pressure being too good.
I think it's still bit early to say for sure. I am quite positive his map pressure isn't op, but who knows, maybe I am wrong. I do remember this exact concern being voiced by multiple people when Demogorgon released though, and in the end, he actually got buffed a little.
I have also had matches with other killers where I was able to win despite only having one or two hooks after 4 gens were done. One match in particular was with Ghost Face, who isn't even consider very strong at all.
In my opinion, Dredge could use some tiny nerfs, but map pressure is not one of them. I think toning down Nightfall is needed, as well as his tunneling potential. And before they nerf his map pressure, I would actually prefer them to nerf his anti-loop just slightly, by increasing the time it takes to teleport back to his remnant from 0,25 seconds to something like 0,6 seconds, so that survivors have a bit of mindgame potential when looping small to medium sized pallet loops.
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That really sounds ridiculous. I wonder if everyone is having that problem or if it's just some people, but so or so that needs to be addressed.
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@TheMidnightRidr said:
Yep, and it’s awesome. But in all seriousness, it’s not that bad. 12m is plenty of range to be able to navigate.
My problem is that you can't always see well, even within the range you are supposed to see.
Also, according to the wiki, it's supposed to be 18 meters. And personally, I think right now the radius does feel a bit too small, but not sure on that one. It could also just be the other effects that make the actual vision range too dark sometimes.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2991132#Comment_2991132
You call it bitter, I call it being realistic, philosophers may call it pessimism.
Lol.
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I like a lot of the ideas. Especially those of Off the Record. But I am going to be honest, I kind of want exactly that effect as one of the basekit additions to help survivors with tunneling and camping. Maybe not 60 seconds, but 30 or so.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2991024#Comment_2991024
It is true, unfortunately. When has anything said by survivors on these forums been taking seriously by the developers. If you're a survivor, you best bet is to avoid these forums like the plague and just play the game until you aren't having fun, then move to a new game. If you are solo queue, you might as well just move to another game immediately.
Or, switch to killer. Killers are the developers little darlings and get stuff all the time.
It's going to be a sad day for survivors after the meta perk reworks. The developers are going to make survivor perks so worthless and bland, that I'll be surprised if any survivor plays this game after.
Haha dude you are going to keep spreading this crap on every thread now are you? Kind of sad really to be so bitter.
But I guess you are a good counterbalance to all the weirdos still thinking the devs only care for survivors.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2990920#Comment_2990920
I'm maining Dredge now and his map control is very possibly more oppressive than Blights. On top of the fact he's also anti-loop. He's a far better version of Freddy, Demogorgon and Sadako. Sadako and Freddy both being very solid killers.
Can't really agree. He is powerful, but not S tier or anything. He definitely has great map control, but it's not insane or anything, to the point where survivors can't complete gens. Not even close. I would say it's pretty much on the level of Blights, maybe a tad weaker, but that's it.
His anti-loop is not bad, but in my opinion, Demogorgon's is probably a tad better. It moves survivors away from pallet loops but it doesn't have any range or can hit over pallets and windows. Plus he moves slower than survivors while his remnant is active.
Of course he does have Nightfall, which definitely makes his map pressure as good, if not a bit better than that of Blight's, on top of other advantages. But it's not too crazy either. I do think Nightfall needs to be toned down a bit though.
I definitely do not agree with Sadako or Freddy being solid. And most of the community agree with me on this it seems. Freddy isn't bad, to be fair. I think he is stronger than some other people think, but not quite viable. And Sadako is definitely not solid, which most people agree with.
Killers need to be strong to be viable, it's simply like that. And Dredge, in general, is really well balanced actually. Not to strong, but also not to weak. He might just need a few very small nerfs in certain areas, mainly Nightfall.
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@Rogue11 said:
Once people start getting meta perks and figuring out how to use his power, he's going to be beyond stupid to play against. Another killer with oppressive mobility and oppressive chase. Oh and I get to stare at a black screen for half the match. Feels balanced...
I mean, survivor players probably also still need to get used to him more. I don't see him being stronger than other A tier killers. His mobility is great but his chase really isn't that oppressive at all. But who knows, both sides probably still have some improvement left.
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@EntityNea said:
I re-installed the game to play the new killer.
Are we playing the same game? The killer is TOO GOOD.
Like you're saying, he has map presence, scare factor (stealth), anti-loop, and mindgames. All in a single kit.
I played him for probably 8 hours total. First 3 hours, I even forgot he had the anti-loop, and even without using it, I was wrecking any survivor team i went up against. It just felt so unfair for the survivors I was going up against, they couldn't do ANYTHING against me after a few gens popped. And that should say something, I am generally bad at playing killer, and I was completely destroying the opponents even when going up against a full team of borrowed / decisive / dead hard meta slaves.
The teleporting alone can be used so frequently that the survivors have no chance of finishing the final generator. All I had to do was let the survivors finish the gens furthest from each other, deliberately letting some of them pop. After having the final 3-4 gens either in a straight line (no matter distance), or 3 gens relatively close to each other, it was a GG... no matter how poorly the match went for me earlier. Just had to teleport to the furthest gen from me - if passing the other gens during my teleport i could hear it's progress and if it was being worked on. Then just walk there, or if i dont hear anything just check the remaining gens and teleport back to the first one.
It's stupidly broken and he needs a nerf, imo a longer cooldown between teleports because that thing is avalable too often.
Edit: I first played 2 hours of survivor, and when going against him I didn't notice these things.I lost a majority of matches against him, but he was fun to play against. I just didn't understand that he was so broken until i played him myself, because as a survivor you don't really notice how often he can use his abilities.
He really isn't that op. Many people haven't figued out too well how to play against him yet either. There are a few aspects that could be toned down, mainly his Nightfall darkness effect, but his map pressure is pretty damn fine actually. Killers need good map pressure like that. Not that a cooldown increase would ruin him or anything, if it's just a few seconds, but I don't think he needs it. Killers need good map pressure and decent anti-loop to be viable.
If anything, they should make looping against him a tad more viable by making it take a half a second or so to teleport back to your remnant, but even that is way too early to say, he does have a good amount of counterplay.
Maybe you also went against survivors that weren't too experienced? It also doesn't really make sense that one would only notice a killer being op when playing as him. If a killer is op, you would notice it, no matter which side you play.
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For an ultimate, Nightfall happens pretty frequently. No, I think certain downsides to Nightfall are ok. Making certain elements of killer harder is a plus in my opinion.
Nightfall in general is fine, all it really needs is to have it's darkness effect for survivors toned down a bit, as the vision restriction is sometimes too much, going beyond the intended visibility restriction.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2990498#Comment_2990498
I guess when it comes to new perks, killers have been receiving the better end of the stick.
Exactly.
Overloaded kits though?
Dredge and Pinhead are examples. Basically killer kits that have a lot of stuff they can do. It basically killer power-creep. There's no power-creep in survivors.
Maps reworked, and removed infinites have nothing to do with favoring killers.
Maps being made smaller has everything to do with favoring killers. How can you say it doesn't? It's a killer buff.
Removing infinites and not fixing face-camping, tunneling-off-hook-till-dead shows a killer bias, does it not? They're all game design flaws, one side gets addressed the other side doesn't.
Also, there have been a fews killer perks that got nerfed as well in the past.
If you want to list the killer perks that have been nerfed beside a list of survivor perks that have been nerfed, since last year. And put them side-by-side, I'll gladly listen to this argument. Last years patch was 5.0.0.
In the past years, killers have received more favorable changes than survivors, that's true
I don't see why you are trying to argue with me when you are basically agreeing with everything I have said. I guess you are worried that BHVR might realize they have been heavily killer-sided. Well trust me, they could give a rats-shiny-red-buttocks about the forums. If they make any changes it will be based on the data they get behind the scenes. I don't understand why killer-mains act so scared about being the golden child. We're not going to lose that status and just pretending like we aren't doesn't do anything. I say just enjoy it.
I don't think you know what the word "proof" means lmao. But I've already explained just above why BHVR does not focus any role.
In which you pretty much agreed with me, without saying you agreed with me.
Dredge and Pinhead are examples. Basically killer kits that have a lot of stuff they can do. It basically killer power-creep. There's no power-creep in survivors.
Neither Dredge nor Pinhead are op. Just because killers have a lot in their kit doesn't mean they are op, it also depends on how good every part of their kit is. Dredge does have great map pressure, and his anti-loop is decently strong, but it has fair amount of counterplay. Nightfall is the one aspect that needs to be toned down, but more so to make it easier for people struggling to see what they are supposed to be able to see, not necessarily nerfing the intended effect of Nightfall. In general though, he is not op just because he multiple parts to his power. Great map pressure and a decent anti-loop ability is what every killer needs to be viable.
Pinhead is rough on low rank survivors, and solo queue, but again, he is not op, if anything, he is a tiny bit underpowered at high ranks because his main ability, his anti-loop, just isn't reliable enough. But in general his problem is that too much power lies within his passive, and not enough power lies within his actual main ability, the one that takes skill to use.
Maps being made smaller has everything to do with favoring killers. How can you say it doesn't? It's a killer buff.
Removing infinites and not fixing face-camping, tunneling-off-hook-till-dead shows a killer bias, does it not? They're all game design flaws, one side gets addressed the other side doesn't.
Not many maps have had their size reduced. You are right though, it does favor killer. But that's only because maps being too big makes maps survivor sided. So even though reducing the size of a map is good for killer, in the end, unless the maps become too small, it just makes them more balanced, not killer sided.
Not to mention that many maps didn't even have their sizes reduced during the visual rework. Very few in fact. Half the maps or more are still survivor sided, without camping and tunneling that is. Good amount of safe pallet loops, big sizes, strong windows, the list goes on. Eyrie of Crows for example is absolutely horrendous for most killers.
Also, and I can not stress this enough, but removing infinites that were completely bullcrap doesn't even come close to nerfing camping and tunneling. If killers got the gen speed problem adressed, without camping and tunneling being addressed, than I'd be right with you.
Or if all maps were to be reworked like Dead Dawg Saloon, or at least Coal Tower. Then I would probably also agree that camping and tunneling should have been nerfed a while ago.
If you want to list the killer perks that have been nerfed beside a list of survivor perks that have been nerfed, since last year. And put them side-by-side, I'll gladly listen to this argument. Last years patch was 5.0.0.
Survivor: Mettle of Man, DS, CoH, Balanced Landing, Object of Obsession.
Killer: Hex: Ruin, Hex: Undying, Pop Goes the Weasel.
Holy crap, you are right. Let's do a short thought experiment: If one side has 2 op perks, and the other 4, and all of them get nerfed, does that mean the one side is clearly being favored over the other? If yes, then that is some of the most supid logic I have ever seen in my life.
I don't see why you are trying to argue with me when you are basically agreeing with everything I have said. I guess you are worried that BHVR might realize they have been heavily killer-sided. Well trust me, they could give a rats-shiny-red-buttocks about the forums. If they make any changes it will be based on the data they get behind the scenes. I don't understand why killer-mains act so scared about being the golden child. We're not going to lose that status and just pretending like we aren't doesn't do anything. I say just enjoy it.
I'm sorry, I just explained to you why BHVR does not favor any side, and now you are saying I agree with you? Your argument is that BHVR favors killers because killers have received more good changes than survivors the last years, and I explained why that's not the case. So now how exactly am I agreeing with you? The reason why killers have received more profitable changes than survivors is because they needed it, for the game to become more balanced. Not because BHVR cares more about killers than about survivors. Certain changes favoring killers doesn't mean the devs favor killer, the context is important you know.
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@adirgeforthedead said:
I suffer from a form of visual impairment where I cannot distinguish dark tones of yellow, red and green, they all appears as a plaster of black to me. Needless to say, Nightfall has been by far my least favourite addition to this game... in some maps, it is fine, but others I genuinely can't see anything and it's terrible. These have been the most insufferable matches I've played as Survivor.
I gave some feedback from part of this during the PTB and most people basically said I didn't understand the Killer's power for asking them to tone it down... I'm genuinely appalled by this community sometimes they can be so helpful and in others they can be so dismissive. In the near future, I do hope they do tone it down. It's incredibly frustrating to play as is in some maps where I just don't distinguish what's right in front of me.
Well your problem might be that you think of the community as one entity, or at least is sounds like that in this post. Of course there are some people that are not friendly, but there are also a lot of friendly and helpful people here.
Now, I can see why people do not want Nightfall to be changed. Some really enjoy the horror it adds. And I think if you want people to understand where you are coming from, you will also need to understand where they are coming from.
I personally do think they should tone down the Nightfall, it's a bit too much right now, and I am positive they will, in particular because of people like you. Just curious, it's not the visibility range that is causing problems for you right? I'm guessing it's more about not even being able to see within the range you are supposed to be able to see? Because to be fair, I don't have any visual impairment, and on maps like the Saw map, even I had a few instances where I could not see properly within the intended range, only like a few meters away from me.
The biggest issue I have right now with the Nightfall effect is that the edges of the screen are blackened, so you can pretty much only see through a limited space in the center of the screen. That seems pretty unnecessary, and should definitely be toned down a lot.
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@Megmain80 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2989380#Comment_2989380
If you don't survivor main, your opinion is meaningless on this issue.
Yeah no it isn't. Lmao you can't be for real.
Believe it or not, but the best people to listen to is people that play both sides. Of course killer mains and survivor mains need to be listened to as well. But your idea that only killer mains like this Nightfall effect and survivors mains don't is so braindead. I've already seen quite a few survivor mains saying that they like the new Nightfall effect. And yes, killer mains can also play a fair amount of survivor and have opinions regarding that side. And if they find Nightfall fine and fun to play against, that's fine.
Hell, I am a killer main and think it needs to be toned down a bit. Perhaps not the range that you can see, but they need to improve the visbility of the area that you are supposed to be able to see. Probably my biggest gripe with Nightfall are the thick, black edges on the screen, meaning you can only see through a limited area in the center of the screen. It seems unnecessary, and differs in impact depending on the player. Which is not good.
Your attempt at shoehorning people into one corner that don't agree with you, turning the debate into another us vs them, is honestly just sad and pathetic.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2990460#Comment_2990460
That's why killer queue times are so long. Because nobody wants to play survivor, right?
Killer queue times being long does mean that more people are playing killer and there isn't enough survivors to fill the lobby. Also, that's very subjective, I seen plenty of people say that survivor queue times are long.
How do people still believe BHVR only cares about one side? It doesn't take a lot of braincells to understand that they don't favor any side.
If you judge based on content, killer has gotten the lion-share. The best perks, the most overloaded kits. Reworked maps, removed infinites, nerfed survivor perks. Heck, survivor game-play hasn't changed since the inception of the game. BHVR is clearly focused on the killer-experience by a massive margin. Has there even been a significant Killer nerf since Undying (which was broken).
Also, what freaking awesome perks? I mean, of course killers have some great perks, but so do survivors. This game has it's serious problems for both sides. Gens can go incredibly fast, so killer can be very stressful, and even unfair at times. And on the survivors side, it's obviously camping and tunneling, which need to be nerfed into the ground.
Survivor have only got 1 meta perk (Circle of Healing) in 4 years. Again, more proof that BHVR is focused on Killer.
I'm fine with them being focused more on killer since I've switched back to mostly a killer-main. I was hoping BHVR would add some stuff to survivor but now that I understand it's just going to remain bland, I see no point in sticking with it. Except when I have 2 or 3 other friends that want to play.
Killer queue times being long does mean that more people are playing killer and there isn't enough survivors to fill the lobby. Also, that's very subjective, I seen plenty of people say that survivor queue times are long.
I was being sarcastic. They aren't, that's the point. Despite needing four times as many survivor players compared to killer players. They can be a bit longer during daytime, but during the evening, survivor queue times are what take longer. So it seems pretty balanced to me.
If you judge based on content, killer has gotten the lion-share. The best perks, the most overloaded kits. Reworked maps, removed infinites, nerfed survivor perks. Heck, survivor game-play hasn't changed since the inception of the game. BHVR is clearly focused on the killer-experience by a massive margin. Has there even been a significant Killer nerf since Undying (which was broken).
Just no. I guess when it comes to new perks, killers have been receiving the better end of the stick. But survivors received CoH, which was beyond op at it's release. And a few other perks that aren't bad either. Overloaded kits though? No idea what you mean there, but no. Both sides can have ridiculous kits, though on the killers side that's down to a few certain killers.
Maps reworked, and removed infinites have nothing to do with favoring killers. Like what the hell? It's done to make the game more balanced, and actually fair. There is no reason for survivors to have ######### that has 0 counterplay on the killers side. Not to mention that many of the map reworks did nothing for killer. Just look at the farm maps, especially Cowshed. Those are still beyond survivor sided. Not to mention the extremely survivor sided rework of the game map, and the beyond survivor sided map Eyrie of Crows. So when it comes to map reworks, they didn't do nearly enough to make maps more balanced.
Also, there have been a fews killer perks that got nerfed as well in the past. But just like some killers mains only take those nerfs into account, I guess you only take the survivor perk nerfs into account.
In the past years, killers have received more favorable changes than survivors, that's true. Especially some years ago, when they decreased pallet density, and healing time. But that's because the game has been rather survivor sided for a long time, back then at least. So of course there need to be more killer favored changes to combat that. In the last one or two years, the game has been in much more balanced spot, now it's biggest problem is that it's rather balanced for the wrong reasons, mainly gen rush, camping and tunneling. And perhaps 3 or 4 man slugging.
Survivor have only got 1 meta perk (Circle of Healing) in 4 years. Again, more proof that BHVR is focused on Killer.
I'm fine with them being focused more on killer since I've switched back to mostly a killer-main. I was hoping BHVR would add some stuff to survivor but now that I understand it's just going to remain bland, I see no point in sticking with it. Except when I have 2 or 3 other friends that want to play.
I don't think you know what the word "proof" means lmao. But I've already explained just above why BHVR does not focus any role.
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@Deadeye said:
I think it is ok for the moment, I noticed several good matches against Dredge so far and since other stealth killers all have drawbacks when being stealthy (lullaby, slow uncloak or other audio signals) I think it is just fair atm to have something to work with on survivor side. And it is not asked too much imo that the Dredge has to work with LOS blockers to get a stealth hit.
If it turns out that survivors get used to it and stealth is totally worthless, I think it might be worth taking another look. But on Sadako it was also said "she is fully visible, stealth is useless" but with and versus Sadako I notice enough free stealth hits right now. Aura reading ok, that might be something good, also because it counters Windows of Opportunity which helps you a lot in navigation during Nightfall. But I also think that would be a nice addition to a future addon pass rather than being basekit
I mean even if you break line of sight as Dredge, you can still hear him and the direction he is coming from, from a fair distance away.
But that is good, Dredge doesn't need a good stealth ability on top of his map pressure and anti-loop that he already has.
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Dude, special flashlights during Nightfall would actually be the best thing ever. Right now I do hope they tone down Nightfall a bit, so people can at least see the area around them better that they are supposed to be able to see, but if they ever could introduce something like special flashlights all survivors had during Nightfall, i wouldn't mind if Nightfall was exactly the way it is right now. And that would probably be so much fun.
I do think you would have to be able to use these flashlights while running though. Or just have them be active automatically, all the time, during Nightfall. Just some light beam that lets you see further in the direction you are looking in.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2983943#Comment_2983943
This is my response.... I just can't with you.
If we have 5 generators at 80 seconds each, and you throw on corupt, to block 3 of them for 180 seconds. Let's say it takes 3 survivors still spawn on 3 gens so that is 80 seconds and you get one down in that time. You then camp that survivor, for a total of 120 seconds. Then you run deadlock, to guarantee 30 seconds buffer making it 120 seconds for gen 2. So now that survivor is on the hook for 40 seconds, assuming they are a 4 man SWF with constant communicating and no survivors go for a save. So 2 survivors complete a gen in 45 seconds (to make numbers easier). But then deadlock activates, blocking survivor 3 gen progress for 30 seconds. So now we're at 85 seconds. So then those 3 survivors start a new gen (otherwise they have to wait for 30 seconds). Now do a gen in 40 seconds. Now already, that's 125 seconds. So that survivor hooked is already dead. Now using NOED you get one down, now you don't even ned to do this, but let's say you run No way out on top of this to get an extra 21 seconds to ensure the down. You have now easily gotten 2 kills, with plenty of time to go.
All of this, and we ae assuming that the survivors are all 4 borderline flawless, and you are completely awful at killer. This is in the absolute worse case scenario for a killer. in reality, its rare for all 4 survivors to have mics, so they waste time checking the hook, and obviously its down to luck how the gen go for survivors. Of course if the killer is running, say pain resonance, or thrilling tremors, or hooks the survivor near a gen being worked on, then the killer has even more time, but hey why would that matter in a post, about HOOK CAMPING. But I guess you're just too smart for me.
This here is a perfect summary as to why just encouraging killers to not camp by buffing their fair and skillful strategies won't be enough. BHVR also has to nerf tunneling and camping as much as possible, so those skillless strategies become as unviable as possible. No game should ever have such strategies be this freaking effective.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/326333/hook-camping-penalty
My suggestion is just to switch to killer. All the freaking awesome perks they have on top of the fact you don't get face-camped, tunneled-off-hook-till-dead or slugged. I don't see a point to playing survivor at this point and BHVR could give a d*mn about the survivor experience. The games actually fun as Killer.
That's why killer queue times are so long. Because nobody wants to play survivor, right?
How do people still believe BHVR only cares about one side? It doesn't take a lot of braincells to understand that they don't favor any side.
Also, what freaking awesome perks? I mean, of course killers have some great perks, but so do survivors. This game has it's serious problems for both sides. Gens can go incredibly fast, so killer can be very stressful, and even unfair at times. And on the survivors side, it's obviously camping and tunneling, which need to be nerfed into the ground.
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@BastardKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2987864#Comment_2987864
They had a habit of listening to complaints too early when people said the killer was OP on release, rather than waiting for people to take time to learn to strategize against it, so the killers would get nerfed, then the strategies would develop, and they would be stuck underperforming. They have gotten better about it though.
Ok yeah the infamous Freddy is probably the best example here. Fair enough, that was pretty bad, but I didn't experience that because I didn't play DBD at that time yet.
I think the only example of a killer being overnerfed in the past few years was Hillbilly, and I for one don't think it was as bad as some people said it was. Honestly, I would probably still play Dredge a lot if he got that same treatement.
But I am positive he won't. I think the most likely nerf he could get, besides toning down the darkness of Nightfall and nerfing his tunneling potential a bit more, is a small nerf to his teleportation back to remnant, making it take a bit longer, which would give survivors a bit more counterplay at loops. Because that's the most common complaint I have seen besides the Nightfall effect being too much. Of course it's too early to tell if he would need that nerf yet. But I surely wouldn't mind it.
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I fully agree, but I do think Nightfall should be toned down a bit. Maybe increase the visibility range a bit, but it seems the biggest problem some people are having is even just seeing in the range they are supposed to be able to see, because even there it's sometimes to dark.
@Elan said:
What about crow mama? She's so unique and strong.
I like her design but I think one problem many have with her is her rather limited counterplay, making her not the most enjoyable killer to go against.
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It's already really strong. Dredge loses his red stain, which is good for looping. He has no terror radius, though he still emits loud noise so that's not that effective. His teleport is extremely fast during Nightfall however. And survivors can't see very far during Nightfall, which makes it harder to know where to go if you are being chased and want to get to a pallet loop. In fact, Nightfall's darkness effect will probably need to be toned down a bit, because it's most likely too harsh on newer players.
Blindness would be beyond busted, and in particular hurt solo survivors a lot, and swf survivors much less. It would be way too strong. Especially against newer players again, because now they can't see the hooked survivor if there is one, so the survivor just dies.
It's also good that you can see and hear Dredge from further away. He already has great map pressure and decent chase potential, there is no need to also make him stealthy.
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@Megmain80 said:
It’s way too dark. Those who say it’s fine are killer mains who occasionally play survivor (if at all).
Classic. Dismissing other people's opinion with some stupid logic just because you don't agree with it. Kind of sad.
I'm personally for toning down his Nightfall effect a bit, but I for one can still see during Nightfall fine, and that's not based on my experience with him, but against him. I just think right now it's too much for less experienced players, especially those that don't have maps memorized at all, and the area you are supposed to be able to see is sometimes too dark, especially because the edges of the screen are also blackened.
Also, pretty much every survivor I have gone against seemed to be able to navigate fine during Nightfall. Of course they can't see where they should run to, because they can't see pallet loops at further ranges, but they surely never walked into any object and got stuck, and were still able to loop me.
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I didn't have a problem at all honestly. And to be fair, if it sometimes makes it a bit harder to see the survivor, I'm all for it. This just forces you as the Dredge player to predict a bit more, especially when the survivor is running towards his remnant.
But again, so far it didn't really seem to impact me at all. I think it's fine. And as already pointed out, if it makes using his chase power a bit harder, that's not a bad thing either.
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@legacycolt said:
Once people learn how to play him he will be annoying
How so? I feel like the Dredge is pretty fair and balanced to go against, even when played really well. His chase potential isn't too strong or anything.
Of course people probably haven't reached his full potential yet, but at the same time, survivors probably haven't fully learned the counterplay against Dredge either, knowing how to play against him optimally. Which honestly, could take a bit, since it seems to be somewhat map dependent.
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What does that have to do with the new kilker? This is just a big problem of the base game. One that will hopefully be impoved on in the future.
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@Canas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2988978#Comment_2988978
Making us wait three to six more months (at worst) simply isn't acceptable. Every single day that passes with this perk existing requires heavenly patience to endure the constant denial invoked by Dead Hard.
Yeah I agree dead hard needs a nerf or rework, but it isn't that bad as well. The game is still more than playable, for killer as well.
Dead Hard has existed for years now. And the game is still being played.
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@Carrow said:
It never was. The devs got tired of people complaining about it, so they did what they always do. Promised to fix it and then ignore it altogether.
Except they never promised it. Just talking about ideas they had that they might add to the game at some point. No need to twist it to make them look worse.
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Everyone has their own opinion, and I respect yours, but a part of me would really love to hear an explanation on how dredge and sadako are in the same tier.
Sadako is c, maybe even d tier for me, and dredge is probably a tier, though at the very least high b tier.
Also, some of the killers in d tier should be far higher in my opinion, and twins are A tier for me personally.
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Being able to see Dredge from further away is an absolute must. Just like being able to hear him from further away. He has great map pressure, and a decent anti-loop ability. Nightfall also makes his teleport even stronger, and can make it harder for survivors to navigate, especially in chases, when they try to find another loop.
He doesn't need good stealth on top of that, because then I do think he would be a bit overpowered, if he could just run up to survivors very easily and get free hits against them.
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How is the window at the garden house an infinite? if anything, you'll have to force it to get blocked, which isn't great, but it shouldn't be that bad either.
I also get that the house has some strong windows, but in my experience so far, they haven't been that problematic.
I guess the map might be a tad too big, and the house a tad too safe, but in general the map seems fairly balanced to me. Quite a lot of mindgameable pallet loops actually.
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You will definitely need abit of time getting used to him. Pretty much any new killer that is actually strong.
Especially his nightfall. I don't find it hard to navigate in chases during it, at loops at least, but it can be hard to know where you should go next. It might be a bit overtuned in a sense that even the area you are supposed to see around you is a bit too dark.
When he charges his power, he also leaves a remnant behind, to which he can also instantly teleport back to. So if he leaves a remnant at a loop, you don't really want to loop him, at least not if it causes you to run into the remnant. He can just teleport back when you are very close to it and hit you.
This only works when he has line of sight on you, so loops that break line of sight are actually fairly good against him, because he moves slower while he holds his power, and at those loops he can't see whether you are actually running at his remnant, or if you are doubling back.
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@anarchy753 said:
BHVR is really REALLY bad with giving important information for both sides. Many of the statuses you talk about the KILLER can't see what's happening when in most cases they should.
Honestly they should just make both killers and survivors see all important power details like that.
There are definitely good reasons to withholding certain information. Survivors not seeing their stalk progress against Ghost Face for example. That woul hurt him a lot. Or Plague not seeing the vomit progress of survivors.
In Dredge's case, there is probably no visual indicator because for one, it makes it a bit more suspenseful, not knowing when Nightfall will happen until right before, and for another, because it would be useless information on the survivors side, since nothing prevents the Nightfall.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
I don't miss it. Freddy is boring enough to go against as it is without it turning into five gens at Freddy's again.
I'm sure they could buff Freddy just a bit, at least his addons, without him turning into a snore fest again. They just really need to make sure not to overbuff him.
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Dredge is hard to judge because people probably haven't reached his full potential yet, and more importantly, people haven't learned how to play against him yet, figuring out all of his counterplay.
Not sure if he is the fifth best killer, but I do agree that he is A tier. I feel like Hag and Pyramid Head could still be a tad better though, as well as Oni and Twins, especially Pyramid Head with his tunneling potential.
In general I do agree a lot with this tier list. However, Deathslinger and Freddy are too low in my opinion. They should either be at the top of C tier or even B tier. Trickster might also be B tier, but not sure about that one. Not sure about Legion being B tier, and being above the before mentioned killers.
Also, Demogorgon, Leatherface and in particular Nemesis could have the potential for low A tier, but not sure about that.
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Now besides the fact that I think hatch works perfectly now, I don't think that buffing the hatch is a good compensation for buffing killer and nerfing survivors.
Both sides need their fair share of buffs and nerfs, this game isn't sided towards any role honestly.