Xernoton
Xernoton
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651778#Comment_3651778
Could be me doing Gen, Dwight being injured and keep running while Meg wants to heal him.
Meg "Stop that"
Me: what? does she mean I stop doing Gen?
Ahhh. That makes sense but if it was done with an emote it should be pretty obvious whom she would mean because she would directly look at you or Dwight.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/405531/possibilities-for-a-chat-wheel
First i have to ask this question (again) for clarification. This is not a map wide communication, right?
If it is, i am strictly against that, since it would allow them to see their positions all the time. And it would kill the vibe of DBD.
If it is not, i dont see the value of it.
The HUD already shows everything survivors actually need to know. And if a survivor is close by, it is all dead obvious what the other survivor wants, without any form of communication. Want heal? Crouch next to the survivor. Want them to rescure, point at the hook. Want to come with you? Wave your hand. Killer is stealthy sneaking on you and teammate is not aware? Point with finger in that direction. Even running away suddenly is suspicous enough already to tell that the killer is coming.
I can not imagine a single situation where this might be more then a few extre buttons, sorry. The problem is not that people dont understand whats going on, but rather they dont care.
First i have to ask this question (again) for clarification. This is not a map wide communication, right?
I am not sure about that yet. Certain things could be communicated map wide but not all of them. The exact range would need to be tested on a PTB anyway but just from thinking about it, I dare not even guess, if map wide communication would become a problem. Not before we have worked out a solid idea of how it should work and what things you should be able to communicate.
If it is not, i dont see the value of it.
The idea is to give survivors not only information but a means to communicate a bit better. For example, you could say that you go for the unhook. The other survivors see that you are not working on an objective but they can't see why. It might be you're the solo queue team mate that hides in lockers or it might be that the killer is near you and you try to stealth. Your team mates won't know that, so from their perspective it's likely you'll go for the unhook.
You raise a good point that we know what is going on based on someone else's actions most of the time but this is something that comes from experience and it is something that can be misunderstood. There isn't an official DBD sign language yet that every survivor needs to learn. A chat wheel would prevent any misunderstandings and allow for slightly easier / more convenient communication.
Another reason why I would like to implement a chat wheel is that it reminds you that the survivor role is still a team effort, no matter how much it might seem like you're on your own. I have seen my fair share of games in which one survivor was afk on gens pretty much the entire match without ever trying to do something for the team. They played a 1v1, which the devs tolerate / support (I don't recall their exact words) but it's obviously not ideal. I reckon this might also be one of the reasons why people are so quick to dc / suicide on hook. They know that they have a team in theory but in that moment that's last thing they think about. It might be I'm reading too much into this but I can only see potential upsides, for a pretty minimal effort on BHVR's part.
I can not imagine a single situation where this might be more then a few extre buttons, sorry. The problem is not that people dont understand whats going on, but rather they dont care.
That is not completely wrong and it's why I said that the gap between solo queue and SWF can never disappear entirely. I only hope that a chat wheel would improve the situation a bit.
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The best advice I can give you is to let it happen. Until you unlock the perks and learn the skills to deal with such fast paced games, it's best not to focus on the things you can't do but on those that you can.
When you're just starting to play a role, then you are at a significant disadvantage because you have neither a lot of practice (which means you won't know what does and doesn't work yet and also need to think about a lot of things that come naturally to more experienced players) nor the tools to compete. Keep that in mind and try not to expect too much of yourself too quickly. You'll get there soon but for now focus on learning.
Commit to a chase (even when the survivor is obviously good), try to keep track of survivors across the map, test out mind games, see if you can bait survivors into making mistakes, learn where you can get easy hits and where it takes forever. Make mistakes (and I mean many of them) and then learn from these. As you play, you'll eventually gain the BP and the iridescent shards to unlock more characters (for example Clown or Artist), which will provide some much needed slowdown perks.
It's unfortunate that the game is quite unfriendly towards beginners but you can still have fun, if you go into it with a positive attitude. Soon, you will be good enough (both in skill and in loadout) to stomp these groups.
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@C3Tooth said:
Home sweet home has the chat wheel and work quite well. But its mostly for general use.
Your chat is directly to a single teammate.
What if Im doing Gen and see Meg with chat wheel “stop that”? You know what I mean.
Chat wheel should show what youre doing, not tell the others, except Help me.
What if Im doing Gen and see Meg with chat wheel “stop that”? You know what I mean.
I'm honestly not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate this a bit further? Are you worried, that you might not understand what the Meg in this scenario would want from you or is it that you are worried, she might spam it?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651559#Comment_3651559
Definite support for a chat wheel... and more emote/taunt animations. Asking for character voice lines is probably too much, and liable to being spammed, but I'd much MUCH rather more emotes than voice chat. I similarly would perma Mute in game voice chat.
Would be a good thread to explore exactly what emotes and wheel chats we would want.
Would be a good thread to explore exactly what emotes and wheel chats we would want.
Here you go.
@Xernoton said:
There have been a lot of debates over the years how to help solo queue survivors and bring them closer to a SWF. While the gap can never be fully bridged it can definitely be mitigated. One option for that is a voice chat. However voice chats can easily have the opposite effect and make solo queue even worse.
Nobody likes listening to their team mates ranting about whatever it is that got them so upset and telling everyone of the things they'd like to do to your or your opponent's family. There are other reasons why a voice chat wouldn't be ideal but that's not what I want to focus on.
Instead I would explore a different option. A chat wheel. For anyone who doesn't know, a chat wheel is typically a set of commands that can be used to communicate with team mates. The execution isn't quite so straight forward though, which is why I would like to hear everyone's opinions what commands would be useful and how a chat wheel should work.
For example, the chat wheel could feature a set of emotes with different meanings like in DBD Mobile. Another option is for it is to work within a certain range (or map wide) and give either a small sign to your team mates or a simple sentence (no more than 5 words because it's too long to read otherwise).
A list of commands I personally would like to see:
- "Come with me." Straight forward and we even have an emote that implies this.
- "I need a heal." Again straight forward and easy to do. It could be displayed as a small med kit icon next to your character on your team mate's HUD, as an animation or as a short text.
- "Danger!" It could be used in different ways. To warn your team mates, that you saw the killer, that there is a dead zone or even to warn them of traps / drones.
- "Go away." We all know that it's best to spread out but sometimes you'll have a team mate that really wants to spend some quality time with you on a gen. With this you could tell them, that you are opposed to that idea.
- "Stop that!" Solo queue survivors are pretty special. Sometimes you have the god Nea in your team that loops the killer for 20 gens without ever dropping a pallet and sometimes you have a Claudette, that uses Self-Care right next to you.
What other commands would you like to see and how would you implement them (text, emote, symbol)?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651605#Comment_3651605
While I don't agree with every statement dude, it's nice to see a civil Skull Merchant discussion.
Mori - I don't hate her mori, it has very much the nasty strike from behind, clasp the mouth, drive the blades up and through the torso, something like an assassin's stealth kill, I can see that mori done on Game Of Thrones or something similar. Freddy's strike is a little more supernatural and unrealistic, which is fine for the fact he himself is supernatural (although I wish they'd give his and many mori's some much needed TLC). The drone is a bit goofy I will agree and yeah the screams are silly... if it were me, I'd have had the drone do something a little cool, like shine a light in the survivors face to blind them as she approached, show it from the survivors perspective as she steps from behind the light to grab their mouth amd dig her metal nails in, then nimbly slipping behind for the mori to mostly play out the same... but I feel like moris are different enough in tone and feel... but I get the disappointment.
Lore/Outfit - Her lore is a little chaotic and bloated, that's fair. I'd probably have fun trying to rewrite the lore to be a little more structured and darker, but I like some of the ideas.
The suit is kind of practical I guess... but yeah, I do feel her base look is lacking. She has made up a lot of ground in my mind with her cosmetics she has gotten some pretty cool cosmetics. I like the purple haired one with the toothy mask, and I combine that with the body from the battlepass or the more recent Fire Moon outfit, a strong cosmetic SM looks pretty cool IMO.
So yeah I do agree with everything you've said really, I would love a pass myself at her just to clean up a few things to make her better, cause I do see a lot of cool things about SM... but there are blemishes that I understand culminate in distracting from her a lot
I am completely fine with people disagreeing on this. That is good thing because it leads to a discussion. At the end of the day I don't want them to give her the Freddy treatment or delete her from the game. I just want her to be a more fleshed out and healthy version of herself because even though I dislike her design very much, I think it has a lot of potential.
Maybe we can work something out together and post it to the feedback section (send me a DM, if you're insterested). I don't want to hate her anymore (it gets tiring but I also cannot tolerate her current state), so I'd love to give them some suggestions. Almost every part of her has something that is genuinely good and can be reused in a rework but her current version is a mess. There are too many things in there and none of them feel fully fleshed out.
I'd love for them to go a darker route with this killer, focus more on her degeneration. It could start as a means for her to capitalise with her company but slowly she starts enjoying the hunt and loses herself in this feeling. Her competitive nature could push her to come up with ever more deadly designs for her gear and eventually she would start experimenting on herself. The mask could be a part of her head, designed to increase her cognitive capacities and allow her to track her prey and control her drones without effort. The weapon could be attached to an exoskeleton which is directly connected to her spinal cord.
Instead of having multiple drones, she could have one drone that she can control freely. It would allow her to scout survivors in the distance and mark them for a potential anti loop power. Or she gets multiple drones that can patrol a set route (similar to Knight's guards).
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@RFSa09 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651250#Comment_3651250
i´ve played 4 matches with that build and dude, 4 eyrie of crows in a row, i literally ran out of offerings, this match was the best one because it was on a indoor map haha
How can you be that unlucky?! 😂
Good job though. RPD is not the best map for this because there is too much space to Shift + W and slugs can be found pretty easy but you did well.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651612#Comment_3651612
Because it's proximity chat, which is a fun novelty. Discord doesn't give you the fade-out of leaving range, or the tension of calling out to see if someone's even in range to hear, etcetera.
It'd be minor, but there'd be some use for it where there wouldn't be in regular games.
That's fair.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I mean what you are really expecting if you keep those players in game?
They will run to killer and die anyway. Or they will play hide and seek for hatch and leave all team to die.
You can't really expect from them to progress game if they don't wanna part of it.
While that is true I think it's fair to mention that it would at least stop hook suicides on impuls. We all know that feeling when something happens that frustrates us and we're like: "I'm done with this stupid game!" But then a second later you calm down and play like normal.
So it might improve the situation at least slightly.
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@jesterkind said:
Because it won't help solo queue in any meaningful way and definitely won't bridge the gap between them and SWF.
It would be kind of neat as a custom game option, though. Messing around with your friends in a custom game with proximity chat enabled would be really funny, and would allow for streamer/youtube content too.
Why not use Discord (or any other platform) though, if you're playing with your friends anyway? I'm not against adding it for custom games but I don't see the use in that.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651553#Comment_3651553
Like I said, both Skull Merchant and Legion got changed to eliminate a problem, but it didn't make them fun to go against.
But it seems to me all this hatred towards her is still because of her release, as it happened with Legion, rather than her current state.
She does require another change, but it should only concern her power (so no changes to her visual, mori, lore or name) and it definitely shouldn't take priority over other characters.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651552#Comment_3651552
I honestly disagree with certain points here.
In my opinion her name works, her lore is alright and I really like her visuals. Her mori is similar to Freddy's, which is my favorite mori in the game so I'm okay with that, and her chase music isn't that bad.
What I can agree with is her power not being enjoyable to go against, although I don't think it is the worst in the game. When she gets changed again, it should be power and add-ons only.
My main problem with her mori is that it lacks originality. It's Freddy's mori in worse. She sets up a drone for the mori that does absolutely nothing. Literally nothing at all. It has no purpose other than making it slightly different from Freddy's. On top of that, the survivor screams when they go down, they scream again when they stand up, then they scream again when she touches them as if they didn't know she was there and then they scream when she finally kills them. That's 4 screams! That's a little overkill, isn't it? I like Freddy's mori for it's simplicity but Skull Merchant's lacks this too.
The problem with her lore is that there are so many things in there that don't go anywhere. It's mentioned and that's about it. It's like they couldn't decide which direction to take her and then went with everything at once. Her default outfit doesn't make sense for her. It's neither stealthy (which is what her power partially focusses on) nor does it suit her power in any way. She looks like a mercenary but she also has a glittering mask. Probably to show us that she's rich?! In which case Doctor must be the richest man alive, if we consider the electricity prices.
There are a lot of good ideas in her design, that could all work out, if they were fully fleshed out. But it's so many that they can't do that in a single killer. Take one thing and focus on that, then build her lore accordingly. That'd make her more compelling. A business lady gone mad could work perfectly fine. But then they'd need to focus on exactly that and not a billion different things.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651485#Comment_3651485
I've never had a problem with thee exit gate animation. What bothers you about them?
The healing is absolutely the worst animation in the game and I'm convinced they just can't find a way of improving it because of the different sizes among survivors.
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I wouldn't use it and I'd mute it by default. I am not going to listen to some 13 year olds screaming slurs into their vacuum cleaner or telling me about the things they will supposedly do to my family members and I reckon I am not alone.
This however would put me and my entire team at a disadvantage because the game would need to balanced accordingly. It would only open up more ways for solo queue to be awful and destroy any traces of balance that we have in this game. There is also such a thing as a language barrier and background noise. If someone is not fluent in English (or whatever other language would be used to communicate) then the voice chat wouldn't help them at all and they'd be at the same disadvantage as someone, that has it muted. Background noise would also cover important ingame sounds like cues that a killer has fully charged their power etc.
There are a lot of reasons why a voice chat has literally never fixed the solo queue issues in any game. A chat wheel would be way less prone to any of these flaws.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651516#Comment_3651516
I don't think it needs to go this far.
If players managed to let go of their hatred for Legion, then the same will happen for Skull Merchant. We just need to give it more time.
I never played as or against pre 2.7.0 Legion, so take this with a grain of salt but I really think Skull Merchant is flawed in every aspect. Even now.
Her name is completely random (it has nothing to do with her or her power and the explanation for it is pretty bad too), her power is area denial even now, which is always disliked by survivors, she is incredibly simple with neither mechanical nor strategic depth, which also makes her unappealing for a lot of killer players, her visual design does not fit her power nor her lore (quite the opposite because this mask is about the least stealthy thing imaginable) and it isn't menacing in the slightest, her animations are terrible (mori is a worse copy of Freddy's and her walking animation is beyond awful) and her sound design isn't better. A 4 seconds loop for her chase music isn't exactly nice to listen to after a 20 seconds (it's quite annoying imo).
They took too many things and just mixed them all together when they designed her. Drones could make for a very interesting power. She could have been somewhat similar to Singularity or they could make her drones mobile. Literally anything would be better than this. And as long as that remains, I doubt players will ever be willing to give her a chance. It's not exactly fun trying to loop her only to be forced away from that loop as soon as she presses M2. She has a severe lack of counterplay and is incredibly easy to get results with. There is no penalty for changing the rotation so you can do it as often as you want, which basically takes away any chance of her messing up in a loop.
Legion is still not very popular among survivors but at least you actually have counterplay in the second half of the chase. As opposed to SM, who leaves you with literally nothing other than pre dropping pallets and leaving the loop. She cannot be beaten by performing good in the 1v1 but only by outperforming in the 4v1 aspect. You can barely delay her, so your only chance is to finish the game as soon as possible.
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I would like scratch marks to be reverted to the state they were a few years ago. They used to be so vibrant and thick you couldn't miss them. Now I'm happy if I can follow them at all on some maps.
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Honestly, people have gotten used to hating her. It's as natural as breathing. Her very name is enough to trigger all kinds of unpleasant memories. If you ask me, she needs a new name, a fully reworked power that is not area denial, rewritten lore, new visual design and new sound design as well.
You can wrap a rotten candy in whatever fancy layer you like. It doesn't change the fact that it tastes like crap.
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The devs are always slow when it comes to such things. Remember how long it took them to nerf MfT? I guess they still try to give it time and see if it won't up like UW where in a few months nobody will talk about it anymore.
Though I must say, that it's pretty obvious that Grim Embrace + DMS can't be very healthy. The gens block and it leaves survivors in a pretty awkward situation like with 6.1.0 Eruption where they can't really do anything.
@jesterkind said:
It's a no-brainer that it doesn't work with DMS. The two perks only have synergy if you, the player, aren't paying attention to when your team gets hooked. It's exactly like old Pain Res and DMS, you let go of the gen as the hook happens and DMS doesn't activate.
As for whether it's clearly too strong on its own... I think it's a little premature to make that argument, we haven't really had it for that long yet. My gut says it's probably fine but mildly annoying on its own + more annoying with other stall tools added, but I don't know that nerfing Grim Embrace specifically is the right fix for that.
I don't want builds to be mechanically restricted but considering how often we seem to come across this problem, maybe they should be for the game's health...
How do you figure? It's the same counterplay that Eruption had back in 6.1.0. You need to wait a completely arbitrary amount of time and stop repairing the gen. So this combination slows the game even if you counter it. You stop repairing the gen before the hook happens to counter DMS. But now you also can't repair the gen again because if you do it will first be blocked for 12 seconds by Grim Embrace, which causes you to let go of the gen and trigger DMS regardless.
Basically you need to stop repairing before the hook, then wait for Grim Embrace to pass and then you can work on it again until the killer gets to you and makes you trigger the rest of DMS regardless. So even if it doesn't work, it still works because you waste so much doing nothing in order to prevent DMS from activating.
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That's nothing though, is it? Over the last 3 years both sides have always complained about meta and it's never 'fun' to face it.
In my opinion the current slowdown perks are mostly fine. Deadlock and Grim Embrace aren't great though. Deadlock is simply too strong considering that you do nothing for it to activate and Grim Embrace is pretty unhealthy in combination with DMS. Apart from that though, killer perks are fine in my opinion (if anything, many of them are too weak like OC and CoB). They might be pretty unfun to play against at times but they're not overpowered.
It's the same for survivor perks. There is one combination of perks that is pretty unhealthy (Buckle Up + FTP) but apart from that they're fine. Many of them are too weak but the strongest ones are fine. I'm not really sure why Adrenaline will receive changes because it'd be completely fine, if it wasn't for it countering Freddy's power.
It's also clear that the game is balanced around slowdown perks. The match is over insanely fast without them and there is no way a killer can go for many chases in that time. I play without slowdown most of the time and it's not exactly a good feeling when all 4 survivors escape through the gates in less than 5 minutes. That is barely enough to get 4 hooks (and even that is optimistic) and you already need to slow them down considerably for the game to go that long.
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That can happen when survivors have the incentive. Wait until the incentive is on killer (usually in the evening or night) and your queues will be a looot faster.
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Doctor: Distressing, Coulrophobia, Knockout, Brutal Strength (can be switched to Sloppy). Send yourself to The Game with Restraint and Discipline addons and slug them all. It's disgusting.
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Probably because Legion does exactly what survivors don't like. Injure them, leave them to mend and only chase them when they're injured. It's not very pleasant to play against Legion for a majority of players. Because most aren't comfortable staying injured the entire game. It only gets worse with certain addons.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651050#Comment_3651050
I think they're aware this only happens because people suicide on hook against her.
It still shows an issue though. If her kill rate without hook suicides was average, then this would imply that the rate of hook suicides against her is disproportianally higher than on other killers. And while many hook suicides may come from people being dicks, this still means that players hate to play against her. More than against any other killer.
Skull Merchant did not receive the changes she needed to make players hate her any less. There are so many things in her design that were completely wasted and could easily be focussed on for a proper rework. But it hasn't happened yet. Her power is still area denial, which is always hated. In Skull Merchant's case it's even worse though because people have gotten used to resenting her anyway.
This is not something that can be resolved by some small tweaks alone. She needs heavy changes in every aspect until she becomes a new killer altogether. Even a name change would probably be necessary just so her name is not associated with unhealthy design anymore. That does not mean that they have to delete her and start over but it does mean, that they have to sort through this mess and go in a different direction.
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I use them for skins and just save up enough of them to buy the next non licensed killer. After that I usually wait until I have enough for the survivor as well and then buy them too.
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Step 1: Queue up.
Step 2: Assert dominance.
Step 3: Collect the salt.
No exceptions. It doesn't matter if the survivor / killer is afk. Their in game character will still be salty. If they're not salty, then you didn't win.
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What about hook suicides? Or survivors that are trolling? Do they influence the escape rates as well?
If you're gonna eliminate factors that affect the legitimacy of your escape rates, then you need to do it for both sides. But you can't always do that as a survivor because you don't see when your team mate stops in their tracks to get killed. As a killer it doesn't work either because you don't see what survivors do outside of chase.
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Nemesis Nemesis Nemesis. Nemesis^3? That's a lot of Nemesis.
Jokes aside, I agree. Some of the most fun I've had in this game was while goofing around. Wins are great and all but having fun is more important and these 2 things don't always correlate.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651009#Comment_3651009
We do have Demodoggo. And Xenokitty. And Miss Piggy.
i agree we need more pet killers though.
Demodoggo is strangely fond of digging holes in the ground though. I can't just tell him to stop and play fetch if he doesn't want to.
Xenokitty doesn't fetch. She just nods at me any time I feed her Bills. She's pretty cuddly though and her purr is quite therapeutic.
Miss Piggy only plays Boop The Snoot. Well, either that or I wake up with a very uncomfortable contraption on my head that I need to hold shut with 2 popsicle sticks in my mouth.
@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651009#Comment_3651009
Yes, but petting may result in moments of sadness.
Worth it.
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Can I pet it? I always wanted my own pet killer to play fetch Feng Min's arm with.
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650444#Comment_3650444
I feel like if you want the name, aesthetics, music, power, lore, and animations tossed out and remade then you're kinda just asking for SM to be deleted and a new character take her place. Which to be fair I get it, but that doesn't really seem like the best result.
Regardless of how dirt it is to play against her, there are people who play as her, and I'd venture to say most of them paid for her. I get making changes/reworks when they change the killer into something healthier for the game, but this proposal sounds like it's pulling a bait and switch on my wallet.
No hate towards you btw, just want to make that clear
I see where you're coming from but that is not quite what I would like to see. There are a lot of things in her design that can be used for a reworked killer. Drones are not a bad idea for a killer power. The problem is that they are stationary on a killer with no map mobility. This will always make her an area denial killer, which is already a massive hindrance for a killer that is both interesting to play as and against. I mean look at Hag for example. She's the same in that regard and her pick rate and reputation among survivors is also pretty bad. It would be worse, if there were more people playing her.
If the drones were mobile on the other hand, there would be a lot more they could with them. Combined with a form of mobility it would also allow her to make use of the information she gets from her drones and they could be connected to a potential chase power.
In her lore there is a lot of stuff that could be reused too. She is a self made millionaire, who shows a lot of tenacity and she has a will to reach her goals no matter what. This is good. Take that and go from there. But scratch that part about manga. It doesn't fit in there at all. It just serves as a random justification for her name. Take that away though and she'd still be the same character. It has no effect on what she does, or how she is represented in the game. If you didn't read her lore, you wouldn't know anything about that.
Her visual design is pretty trash but it could be salvaged. She is clearly written as evil, so why not make her a sadist as well? Change her visual design to make her part machine to be able to inflict the most pain and suffering on her victims. This could make her really menacing and it would perfectly fit to lore that focuses on how she slowly stopped focusing on her business but instead followed her passion, killing people, and grow more deranged in the process. Flesh it out a bit more and the killer would be a lot more compelling. Or make the mask part of her head. Like she impemented it to become even more intelligent and deadly.
Her sound design is simply annoying to me. Her chase music is literally a 4 seconds loop and it gets old quickly. Because it also doesn't really reflect her in any way, it could simply be scratched and remade. Or they take what they have and enhance the loop by a bit. The same goes for her animations. Her mori is copied from Freddy's (why is the drone even there, if it doesn't do anything anyway?and she first sets it up just for the mori!) and her walking animation is terrible (women do not walk like that). Especially her walking animation completely ruins her to me. How am I supposed to take her serious, if she is coming after me and swaying her hips like she's missing a vertebrae and desperately trying to balance her upper back by shifting her weight.
I understand where you're coming and I do not want them to delete the killer (even in the sense that you explained). I want them to sort out this mess that is Skull Merchant, focus on one thing for her gimmick. Not evil, rich lady with an interest in killing people, that has the name of a manga character created by her father, which otherwise has nothing to do with her and uses shiny drones to stalk people (seriously, how does nobody notice these things? shouldn't they be, you know, stealthy?) but is also stealthy, contrary to the glittering mask she wears, that is a representation of her being rich and her mercany attire that has absolutely nothing to do with any other part of her lore or power. There are simply too many (mostly unrelated) ideas that they all put into one killer and that don't add up.
This is enough to design 3 killers. One that is based off a manga in some way (could have worked for Artist as well), one that is simply evil and always tries to improve in her craft of killing people and one that is rich and kills people with high tech equipment as a means to endure her or own boredom. I actually thought of a 4th while writing this: How about her developing gear for the military but also testing out her prototypes herself (this would fit to a part of her lore and her outfit)?
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@aerie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650398#Comment_3650398
a 40% ranking does not mean solo queue is "fine" for the vast majority of players. 40% escape rate isn't a majority of games, and it without a doubt does not happen to every player, obviously, because of the large sample size. this is you abusing statistics. you are blatantly looking at a number, and then openly lying about what it says in order to prove a point.
Is 40% a small number for escapes? dear god no. but it doesn't mean that solo queue OVERALL is fine for a majority of people. you're stretching the percentage and using it to suit your personal narrative that you already came to before seeing the percentage. THAT'S what I'm calling out. You already believed solo queue was overly complained about before the stats came out, and are using this 40% to justify your personal narrative you already thought.
that is abusing a statistic. you cannot just use a number and make it say whatever you want. it's not how statistics work. you are openly using it as a "people cannot have a long streak of unfun matches and if you do you clearly must hate dbd and should quit" sign, when you should know that's not what the 40% rating means. what you're saying is blissfully confused at best, malicious at worst.
40% is exactly what the devs want. So it's completely balanced in that regard. You're trying to shift the goal post here.
Survivors are not meant to survive a majority of games. Think about it: This would imply an escape rate >50%. Which means a kill rate of <50%. So then killers would lose a majority of their games. Which would bring us back to your argument with the roles reversed.
The reason why a 50% kill rate (what some people consider optimal) is too low is fairly simple. The devs want killers to be the power role. It is supposed to be an uphill battle for survivors. You can critizise that all you like but it's a simple fact. One that actually makes sense for multiple reasons.
On one hand, killer is the more stressful role (you're constantly in action with little to no down time) as opposed to survivors, who can relax as long as they are outside of chase. So it needs to feel rewarding for a killer to play. Otherwise, why would you play killer at all? On the other hand, it's a 4v1 game. A 50-50 is not only hard to achieve but arguably unhealthy. As long as the killer doesn't feel significantly stronger to the survivors as well, then nothing will stop them from going out of their way to bully the killer. This is amplified further by the survivors experiencing strength in numbers. I could list a few more reasons but really it doesn't matter. Because at the end of the day, the devs decide whether or not the game is 'balanced'. We can complain all we like but it doesn't change that fact.
I judge solo queue under consideration of the escape rate. If we consider 40% as balanced, then solo queue is fine in that regard. Apart from that my solo queue games mostly don't feel as bad as some people claim. And they claim this for solo queue in general. Is solo queue always great? Of course not. There are things outside your control that heavily determine your chances to survive. You could be the best player in the world and still lose to a beginner killer. Because at the end of the day, a survivor cannot win a 1v1 against the killer (which is necessary). If your team mates are terrible and all die immediately, then you won't be able to do much either. But for the most part all 4 survivors in the game are somewhere around the same skill level. So solo queue is fine even that regard. Again, as bad as the MMR may be, it still prevents the worst from happening (apart from lobby dodging).
I don't think saying that solo queue is not as bad as some people want us to believe is a "personal narrative". Considering that many claim, that the game is completely unbalanced for solo queue and that they always lose with no chance, the escape rates did in fact confirm my claim. That was what I said before in case you still don't understand.
That last part is a completely wrong assumption. I said before that you cannot take a small sample size and expect a 40% escape rate. That is not how statistics work indeed. But the law of large numbers says that with a high sample size (sample size -> infinity) your results will come close to the expected values. You can have a streak of bad games of course. This streak could even be "long" (it depends on your definition of long). But overall your results will balance out. MMR only makes this happen sooner.
I suggest you read thoroughly before you make these accusations. You also misinterpreted (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt her) what I said about having fun. If you are not having fun in the majority of your games (not just 5 in a row or whatever arbitrary low number you wish to place here), then the best thing you can do is not play. At least for a while. Sometimes we all think we would like to play some games of DBD but then none of them feel fun. When something like that occurs, it's best to stop playing for a while. Until you can enjoy the game again.
I'll do us both a favor and stop this conversation here. We can agree to disagree but let me make myself clear, I know exactly how statistics work and I suggest you stop making baseless claims here. Especially when it's clear, that you ignored parts of what I said for your own "personal narrative".
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Pre 6.1.0 era. I vividly remember the floods of DH discussions. It was kind of special to see one perk with so much controversy. I am glad though that we now don't have to have the same argument over and over again.
Other than that, I kind of miss Patrick. I don't know why but I was always in a good mood when I watched the dev streams with him. Oh and of course the brief moment in history when the forums were full of hockey memes.
Although @GeneralV is right. It was nice to see so many people in agreement that Freddy deserves better. It's refreshing to see people not arguing but uniting for a good cause for once.
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It's a bug and so far I think it happened every time I've played on Lery's since the LightsOut patch went live.
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@GeneralV, I guess I need accept that I lost. You've convinced me. Freddy is not the weakest killer in the game. I guess he's still too strong. Or the 2 living Freddy mains are just too good. I choose to believe the second option.
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In terms of balance? Maybe. In terms of how fun he is to play and play against? Probably not. I still don't like playing as him (although that is just my personal opinion) and playing against him became even worse.
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What I hope will happen: Skull Merchant gets a rework. From the ground up. Everything. Her name (it has nothing to do with her power and appearance whatsoever), her visual design (let's face it, she doesn't look menacing in the slightest and her mask is the least stealthy thing imaginable), her sound design (her chase music is terrible), her animations (no, women do not walk like that), her lore (such a convoluted mess) and her power all are awful. Stationary drones will never be a good design.
What I actually think will happen: Nothing. They reworked her twice already and she wasn't mentioned as a killer that would receive changes in the near future. Also, they already have a lot on their plate and I doubt they have any idea what to do with her at this point. She is simply a failure. Maybe she will receive some number changes and end up like Freddy.
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@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649883#Comment_3649883
maybe is a joke, but before anti-camp, every one think anti-camp has to be a joke.
Huh? That's news to me. Some people said that it would be highly abusable and BHVR would need to be very careful with that but I did not see anyone that thought it had to be a joke. Of course there were also people that were against it but not the majority. What you suggested is in no way similar to the AFC mechanic.
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@aerie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650109#Comment_3650109
"these statistics don't change the fact that solo survivor is still overall unfun!" (an overall reasonable take because these statistics don't dictate how everyone's games go)
and you're here like
"it's NOT that deep, the STATISTICS say clearly solo survivors escape 40% of the time so that must also apply to you! i am a reasonable human being and am definitely not abusing statistics to make an unfair claim about a legitimate criticism because i would never do that, no no. all survivors have the same experience because the escape rate is 40% therefore everyone ever must also be escaping more than they claim! because that's how statistics over hundreds of thousands of players works, everyone ever must be having the same experience. these people complaining must be LYING!!!!" ... lol?
(had to repost because my comment got flagged for me editing it too quickly. mods never put comments up within a reasonable time so it's literally faster to just write it again. god forbid a woman edits her posts for clarity on this forum!!! they better not delete it again when i'm editing this now!!! i beg... i'm so tired of rewriting because of this dumb system...)
That is not what I said.
There have been many, many, many posts over the last months that stated solo queue was so horrible and that they pretty much never escape. This clearly shows, that this is wrong. Does that mean that every solo queue game is super fun? No.
But if you're not having fun in a majority of your games, then why do you still play?
I have honestly never heard someone say that I "abused" statistics (is that even a thing?) before. You do know that we have SBMM in this game, right? Now consider again what you just said. If you were to die significantly more than 60% of the time, your MMR would drop in response and put you against players that are more your skill. Meaning, your games would become easier and your escape rate would balance out again. The same would happen, if you were to escape significantly more. The only regions where it would make sense for this not to work are the very extremes.
Highest high MMR and lowest low MMR can have some players with different escape rates because they can't go anywhere from there. If you're at the very bottom, then you literally can't decrease your MMR anymore. I didn't think it was necessary to explain this. But SBMM does not allow for the very extremes to happen for most players.
This of course does not mean that out of 10 games you will definitely escape 4. This is not how statistics work. But with a large sample size, the average escape rate in your games will come close to 40%.
I can only speak for myself but most solo queue games are fine. It's more the ones with me solo and 3 people in a SWF that go south quickly (though that is probably just unlucky). You'll win some and you lose some but you can still have fun. Most complaints about solo queue come down to: "Killer too strong, we all die every time." But this data clearly shows that this is not the case (at least not for the vast majority of players). That's what I said before. This is not abusing statistics but looking at the actual numbers and considering the large sample size as well as the influence of matchmaking.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650027#Comment_3650027
From their benchmark of a 60% kill rate, yes. From the standpoint of actual player experience, it sucks.
It's not that deep. Some people claim that solo queue is nearly unplayable and they die all the time. This clearly shows that the escape rates are pretty much exactly where BHVR want them.
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Seems I was right, that solo queue is not quite so bad after all.
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Probably not. A rework would be the better option. Overcharge is in the weakest state it has ever been and it has no synergy with Doctor who comes with this perk and has a power that affects skill checks!
Rework both of them. They aren't worth a perk slot. Overcharge is arguably worse than nothing.
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I'll be honest, I'm not sure the increase of the turning time is actually healthy. I have already done some curves with it, that were really nasty and could have never worked before.
Honestly though, I'll be fine as long as they remove that awful noise to tell you the chainsaw is ready. It's so annoying hearing that sound every 10 seconds and it drives me crazy. If it is needed for survivors, then fine. Keep it for them. But the killer doesn't need it. They know when the chainsaw is ready to be used again.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfErfx2TrOM@Volcz said:
So I searched up Nea being the entity..finding out its just b/c of the meme lol. 🤣
Damnit I thought it was going to be this insane theory with like 10 different points all connecting to each other..
You were saying? 😉
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I'm fine with the cooldown (though I would prefer the speed being a little higher) but what really annoys me is that god damn sound every single time your chainsaw is ready. If survivors need to hear that, good. Let them hear it. But I don't wanna hear that sound.
It's so incredibly irritating and it makes me irrationally angry. Please, remove this sound for the killer at least. I don't know what it is but it triggers me beyond reason.
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The problem with slugging is that you don't actually progress the game by doing so. That survivor will get picked up and then you are left with nothing. Survivors are a lot faster in picking up their team mates than the killer is finding and downing the next one (outside of specific survivor-made scenarios). Also, when you only slug and don't hook, then you don't get the benefits of Pain Res, DMS, Grim Embrace and Pop.
Your suggestions really come down to: "There should be no way for survivors to lose a game. Ever." You suggested to nerf absolutely everything that allows killers to build up pressure. Slowdown, slugging, breaking pallets, killing survivors and even specific killers. This is beyond unbalanced. MfT was too strong with a 3% haste effect and you suggest to buff it to 5% because survivors are bad? Well, if they're bad, then they should lose. It's as simple as that. The same goes for killers. If you play worse than your opponent, then why should you win?
Most of us (if not all) thought you were trolling. To be honest, I'm still not sure you aren't. This is the most one sided post I've seen so far. You have raised no good arguments why something is too strong or too weak so far. It only comes down to: Survivors play bad, so they need help. Maybe you should play a bit of killer yourself, win your first few games and then see for yourself that survivors aren't actually that bad at the game. We have a MMR system that will put you against some decent players soon. Don't worry.
This is an insult to all the good survivor players out there. This game wasn't released yesterday, so survivors had a bit of time to learn the game. And learn they did. Even in solo queue you see some basic levels of coordination thanks to the HUD and survivors having a bit of game sense. You know when to go for an unhook, you know when to heal, you know to spread out on gens and you know when someone is in chase. This is all the information you need to play solid. If all of this is not enough, then there are also perks to help you out.
The most ridiculous out of all these suggestions to me was the thing with pallets respawning. There is such a thing as looping and it is what survivors should use to delay killers. Pre dropping isn't exactly skillful, so it shouldn't be a guaranteed win. Your suggestion however would create maps that don't allow the killer to get any downs. Does that sound fair to you? Because to me it doesn't. The Game for example has more than 30 pallets (consistently btw). Now multiply them by 4 (1 pallet + 3 respawns of that pallet). That leaves this map with more than 120 pallets. That is enough for 10 games. The average match doesn't last 1 hour and 20 minutes. But this is how long it would take to deal with this amount of resources. Even on old Shelter Woods, which sometimes had no more than 5 pallets iirc, this would become game breaking. The funny thing is though, that Nurse wouldn't really care. And she is the strongest killer in the game. So this would affect all but the very strongest killer.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but there shouldn't be any basements left that the killer could bodyblock. The last one (I think) was the main building of Groaning Storehouse and that one is fixed.
A whole would also have the side effect that killers could enter the basement easier.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649198#Comment_3649198
I’ll say what I said again: killer shouldn’t just be screwed if the survivors don’t make mistakes.
I agree with that but what you said before sounded a lot like you made some mistakes. Reflect on your own games for a bit. Do you really play flawless? Or are you, like the rest of us, just a normal player, who will make some mistakes? It's easy to say one is high MMR and plays as good as tournament winners, but in most cases this is simply wrong.
The chances that you are such a player are rather low, which isn't something to be ashamed of. It's just the truth. Not everyone can be a tournament winning basement dweller.
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The usual. Playing DBD, having fun, getting mad, having fun again and laughing at how bad I am at this game. I outplayed myself around the same loop 3 times trying to hit a curve with Billy. And it was always the same curve! After that though I got 9 hooks on GoJ with dream pallet Freddy using only STBFL.
Other than that, I started reading another book from the shelf. I hadn't been reading that much lately, so it's definitely nice to slowly continue my way through the bookshelf.
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Killers are in a pretty good spot right now. Sure, some are a bit weaker than they should be but most are good. More than good, honestly. If you play a killer for the first time and it goes badly that is not balancing issue. With 5k hours you should know that. Xenomorph is a very strong killer but also pretty hard because the tail attack is a bit confusing and you need to play around turrets. But if you can do that then Xeno becomes a pretty scarry beast.
It sounds to me like you are playing against survivors that simply you by now because your MMR is a tad higher than it should be. Playing killer has never been easy (DBD is a pretty hard game after all) but it has become a lot more fair and even forgiving. You can afford to make some mistakes as long as the survivors make some as well. If they play flawlessly however, then it's only natural that you'll have a pretty hard time.
It's true that most maps have more resources than necessary against the average M1 killer but there are also killers in this game that aren't Freddy, Trapper or Myers and can't be delayed that easy. So it's fair against some killers and unfair against others. For the most part it is somewhat alright though. In most games you don't need to play then entire map. You don't win by defending all gens. You only need to have 3 left to win and the survivors don't dictate which ones these will be (at least not entirely). If there is a gen in a far corner, then screw that. You don't need to go there. Nobody is forcing you.
The only thing that is unfortunate is how fast paced the game has become. For both sides. As a killer, a single long chase can lose you the game, so you often need to let that survivor go and find someone else and in many cases it feels like you absolutely can't keep up with the gen speed, which can make you lose your cool and make more mistakes than you usually would. Many compensate for this by tunneling (even when it's not necessary), which only makes them win games they shouldn't, raises their MMR and then puts them against even stronger opponents. So the problem only gets worse.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Hardly disagree.
DS is not busted anymore. Dead Hard is dead perk. UB is not meta. Healing got big nerf. Most of maps got nerfs and ended with big dead zones. Iron Will nuked, so it's easier to track survivors as well.
Gen tapping removed and killer gen-kick buffed. We are getting pretty strong killers. Killers still have good anti-gen meta which helps to slowdown the game.
It's actually the best state of game for killers right now.
It's actually the best state of game for killers right now.
Agreed. Although I would like to clarify that this is not the strongest but the healthiest spot the killer role has been in so far. 6.1.0 regression was so nutty, that I'd consider this the strongest killers have ever been.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
How is Nemesis power countered by flashlights?
Zombies can still be blinded. It's the only flashlight related interaction to any power that is still in the game. Calling it a counter might be debatable though.
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Yeah, that's a bug. It's kind of funny but also pretty damn unfair.