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@MsFrizby93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/677005#Comment_677005
Progression requires BP, and it’s fine and it will be worse for mobile if that’s really your excuse as it will have a separate system.
the whole point of progression is the time and dedication you put into it so yea if you’re not playing regularly that’s on you.
and you don’t have to unlock every perk or character to enjoy the game, and you don’t need a less grind to be efficient as you like to say or enjoy the game that is on the player and their own problem.
time and resources go hand in hand with BP and doesn’t really make sense considering I’ve been seeing lots of complaints for 2nd objectives and wanting more to do then gens which is the opposite of lessening the grind of pre reqs so I’m baffled as to why we as a community are fine with longer game times but hate long grinds?
really hard to listen when I can only read.
Yeah, there's no "excuse" being made. I'm actively doing the grind, as I've pointed out numerous times before, I'm just not actively defending it as a reasonable thing. Because it's not.
Again, you're reducing everything to BP which ignores the numerous structural issues I've raised. And I guess now you're just adding various straw men into the argument?
That's cool, I guess. This feels a lot like chasing a survivor while gens get done, though, so I'm gonna loop back to the objective and let you rant about whatever you feel like ranting about. Have fun.
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@MsFrizby93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676985#Comment_676985
Because the grind for mobile will be different with the perks, the items are better but not the perks lol
just stop replying if you don’t like my responses? Lol this nonsense with ‘ good day’ :,)
what part are you not understanding about the events and items and perks being enough and fine and you disagreeing is subjective?
the overall point is there’s hardly a grind because I got everything I wanted+ some with the 2x event before the 1st week was over when they extended the summer event.
you and everyone else is wanting the grind to be less yes? I’m failing to see the disconnect between us other then you just not accepting the BW rework and automatically brushing it under the rug before giving it a chance :,) same with the events, and the 2x used to be triple at launch, know why it was nerfed? People were leveling to fast which is the issue with a lesser grind.
Well, the good day thing was a joke because I get a kick out of doing that.
Again, the upcoming BW rework has already been extensively discussed in this thread. It's not going to help new players, which is what this thread is about.
You're failing to see the disconnect because you're not listening, because this isn't just about BP. That's part of the problem, yes, but I've made it clear a number of times that a big part of my objection is the time and resources needing to be spent on unrelated characters in order to progress the original character and how that interacts with both the bloodweb and the way player rank is calculated.
There are a number of factors which come together at once to make this game inhospitable to new players, that is what I'm trying discuss, not "more BP please!"
Yes, you can churn out enough BP to power through the extreme inefficiency with enough dedication. That was never in doubt. Not everyone plays this game for several hours at a time or has been here since launch, though, and even if they did, it still wouldn't address the underlying issues.
Also, launch was a long time ago. There were nowhere near as many characters and perks back then. I'm not sure it's a valid example, re: leveling too fast.
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@MsFrizby93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676948#Comment_676948
I did engage by saying I disagree lol :,)
just because you think it’s flawed doesn’t make it so. The grind is fine, and either way after this BW rework there won’t be another one for awhile so I’m good.
you’re really going to hate mobile lol
I SAID GOOD DAY SIR
But seriously, no. You haven't. You repeat the same stuff I've been hearing from hardcore gamers for years -- stop whining, be grateful, we all did it. People used the same arguments all the time in FFXI, as a matter of fact, whenever anyone complained about the grind there. Then WoW came out and everyone left.
You're approaching this from the standpoint of "can the players make enough BPs to do the grind" and I'm not saying they can't, I -- along with several others who have shared their personal experiences -- am saying that it's an overly convoluted process which is poorly explained to new players, can be messed up in multiple ways, and doesn't actually contribute anything positive to the game.
My question isn't "can this grind be done?", I know it can, it's more "is this healthy for the game?" I enjoy a good progression grind, but the one we have in DbD resembles an RPG from 10 or 15 years ago.
EDIT: Also, why would I hate mobile? I'm genuinely confused by this comment.
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@Cardgrey said:
I see well you should check out final fantasy 11. We’re you level down on death need a party of 5 others (a tank 3 dd a puller and a healer) to pull the same mob over and over for 4 hours just to gain a level.and gear lol you need people’s help to make stuff and most stuff people never get cause the grind is real lol.
I used to play FFXI. You're right, few games can match its unholy grind.
18-hour boss fights, man. Groups having to call it quits because members are passing out and puking.
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@MsFrizby93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676871#Comment_676871
Good thing opinions are subjective huh?
bvhr doesn’t owe the players anything, they could’ve made the game vanilla with crap for a rewards system like battlefront ( lol )
im just pointing out the facts whether you like it or not which is they’ve been steadily adding BP rewards and it’s never good enough it seems. Are any of you actually new????
if I was a developer announcing the BW rework with my first game I would be depressed that my consumers don’t like a added game design when it isn’t even live yet and we haven’t seen what it’s going to be like with 2x event.
The event has already been discussed thoroughly in this thread. Also, nobody has said BHVR owes them anything. BHVR is great, I love their game, but the progression system attached to it has a lot of unnecessary inefficiency built into it by design.
If they addressed some of that inefficiency, they wouldn't need to do regular reworks and events. You don't appear to be wiling engage on that aspect of the discussion, so I bid you hakuna matata. Good day, sir.
It varies from game to game, but if you want a fully optimized character it can take months or in some cases years without item duping or trading. The original Borderlands had such RNG that you could play thousands of hours without seeing certain legendaries, BL2 had the OP levels, and TPS... well, the less said about that one the better.
The point of comparison isn't to say that Borderlands has the hardest grind around, but that it has a grind which is quite hefty while still being straightforward. I don't need to play Salvador to improve Zero, I don't get better at sniper rifles by using pistols.
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@MsFrizby93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676868#Comment_676868
Just wait for the 2x event if you really can’t dedicate ‘so’ much time, you can bust out 50’s pretty fast
I intend to make as much use of it as I can. The fact that I have issues with the design of some of its systems doesn't mean I'm not going to do whatever I have to do to get through them, this isn't about throwing a tantrum for more BPs.
I popped T3 on Myers on a corn map right behind a group of three survivors on a gen. They ######### their pants so hard one guy DCed right on the spot. I love this game, I'm not going anywhere.
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@MsFrizby93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676856#Comment_676856
2x event bud you’re welcome, you can get a 3rd of the killers to 50 easy, thanks for the facepalm
The only thing you're proving is that you don't take the time to comprehend the positions of people you disagree with.
The fact that they're doing these things shows that there fundamental structural issues with the progression system. Those are what's being discussed in this thread.
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@MsFrizby93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676851#Comment_676851
It’s the insinuation like it’s supposed to mean something to me losing new players over a grind when we’ve been given BP adjustments over the course of the game, you think bbq or the event cakes were at launch?
or the BS events where you only got bonus BP if you met certain pre reqs like for the lunar and Halloween?
my whole point is they’ve been adding BP stuff and with a ideal match aka farm you can walk out with 200k BP which is a couple levels and a ######### ton of items.and I never said anything about stop playing killer? Are you mentally ok?
killer is easier to get points anyway even on a bad match compared to a new player dying in the first minute as survivor where you get like what... 1-2k which is barely a item....ok fam....
Right, your answer to someone complaining about the killer grind was to farm SWF.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't be effective, but the majority of my complaints in this thread are not based on BP per game. They're based on the fact that I need to invest a tremendous amount of time and resources into unrelated stuff. Farming SWF would help me get the points I need to unlock stuff but it would only exacerbate the core problem of progression getting in the way of the core gameplay loop.
My go-to example has been Myers, because Myers is a great stealth killer, Monitor and Abuse is a great stealth talent, but it's on Doctor, who is an anti-stealth killer. As a result, I spent days leveling up Doctor, who plays like the opposite of Myers in every way, before I played the stealth killer I just bought so I could find M&A early in his bloodweb.
My ability to complete the grind does not make its structure any more logical or intuitive. Nor does it address the massive amounts of BP waste involved in perk chasing. The upcoming update will do something to address it, and that's great. I salute the team.
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@MsFrizby93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676853#Comment_676853
What’s a shrine? It’s been in there 2x from my experience
Thanks for the facepalm.
I have BBQ unlocked, but I also have a number of low level killers who have yet to find it in their bloodweb.
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@MsFrizby93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676843#Comment_676843
You have BP offerings and a BW rework, be satisfied with that and a BP perk
Sure, let me just equip BBQ on all my killers...
Nvm, most of them haven't found it in the bloodweb yet.
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@MsFrizby93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676825#Comment_676825
The game pop isn’t going to die because some newbies don’t like the game, not every game is for everyone.
it’s still a hard no, is legacy players have to spend all these years grinding and newbies get a free pass to catch up to OUR hard work and dedication... I don’t #%*# think so...
legacy players getting totally pissed newbies don’t have to dedicate the same amount as time as us because the ‘grind is to hard’ for newbies aka their choice for not playing day1 like the rest of us or prioritizing other games.
Nobody said anything about the game dying, just that it's better for a multiplayer game to attract and retain new players. This isn't a personal opinion, it's just a fact of the genre.
"Day 1 or GTFO" is pretty toxic, as is "just play SWF to farm BP". Literally everything I've said has been about killers, my desire to play specific ones, my frustration at being forced to invest in killers I don't like just to properly equip the ones I do like.
So I don't see how "stop playing killer entirely" is a remedy to that, or how you can't see that proposing this as a solution is actually a sign of the problem.
My issue isn't strictly with BP gain per match on anything but my newest killers, anyway. I can make BP fine, but that doesn't make the grind any less convoluted. It doesn't change the fact that I need a spreadsheet and a city planner to determine the most efficient way to get my killers kitted out, while risking the likelihood of losing hundreds of thousands of BP to RNG along the way.
I'm okay with there being a grind, even a long grind, I'd just like it to be a little more straightforward and rewarding.
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@MsFrizby93 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676137#Comment_676137
That’s not BVHRs fault or responsibility because players decided to not play on day 1... Christ the entitlement and they are reworking the BW to for more perks, GL getting the developers to commit more time and resources for ANOTHER rework because of some crybabies on the forums, maybe the devs would like to work on something else for once instead of reworking all their hard work to have it not be good enough for you guys
The fact that they're already reworking it shows that they know there's a problem. As others have pointed out, though, the rework will only help existing veteran players.
It does nothing for new players. This shouldn't need to be said, but new players are good and multiplayer games require them to survive. If a bunch of Stranger Things fans arrive to discover a progression system so wonky and archaic it makes Diablo 2's look streamlined, the likelihood of them staying on past the initial honeymoon is negatively impacted.
You can say "good riddance" to them, but they wouldn't be leaving because they don't enjoy the gameplay or because they don't want to spend money. They'd be leaving because of a bureaucratic slog across multiple characters involving multiple currencies and multiple layers of RNG which has nothing to with the core gameplay itself.
It's in everyone's best interests for this game to be more welcoming, or at least a little less unwelcoming, to new players. There can still be a grind, but maybe fewer obstacles along the way to completing it would mean that more people complete it, adding to the pool of players at endgame/high ranks rather than subtracting.
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Okay, so I bit the bullet and played a game. It went terribly, I missed most of my blinks and most of my hits, I didn't kill a single person, and I only got two hooks.
But it was actually really fun! I didn't expect to hook anyone at all. I can tell this will take a lot of practice to get good at, but it could conceivably be worth the time.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
It's totally possible to play her on console, although a bit harder and takes more time than learning her on PC. I've learned her on console but since I mainly play PC I am only decent I know there are plenty of console nursers here though maybe they can help you. It's totally possible if your willing to put in the effort and time.
That's reassuring, thanks. I would be thrilled to hear more from console Nurse mains.
@justarandy said:
I tried ps4 dbd some days ago and played Nurse. It's a bit tilting because the controls are garbage, the camera speed is garbage, u can't move your camera while blinking for some reason etc..
I still slaughtered all survivors every time I played Nurse. But it's not a fun experience like on pc.
Edit: the only reason why I was doing well is because of my previous experience on pc (playstats is showing me that I did over 11k blink attacks).
The "camera turning while blinking" thing seems like it could be an issue, I'll have to special pay attention to that. Thanks for pointing it out.
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https://www.twitch.tv/Otzdarva
He also has a bunch of videos on the same Youtube channel as the one you posted, "not Otzdarva".
He's my personal favorite because he's so detailed and methodical in explaining his strategies and he does a good job keeping his composure unlike some streamers.
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@HatCreature said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_yixIT0p58&t=2597s
I've been watching and using this, it gives builds for every Killer using only base perks and then suggests advanced builds.
That's a good video and Otz is a great streamer to follow.
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@neacutie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676654#Comment_676654
Thank you for the response, yeah the guy I camped deserved it. If your going to give sh*t to the killer your going to get destroyed for it I don't get if others got out he totally tried to make me feel so small in front of his swf group.
Yup, first mori I ever used was on a guy who t-bagged me at a pallet. I recognized him from a SWF group I'd already had a bad time with earlier that day.
I guess he didn't realize Doctor can shock survivors out of dropping pallets, he just kind of froze when I swung through it. It felt good to fry his brain as he tried crawling away.
Ended up a 4k. 🙂
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As a killer main, welcome to the club. You've now seen red in a match. In a way it's like being touched by the Entity, because it makes you really want to kill.
Camping is a very broad term, I personally distinguish between proxy camping and face camping. To me, proxy camping = patrolling around a hook's general radius, face camping = parking right in front of the hook.
In general, you should try to be a good sport about things, but sometimes you have no choice if you want to secure a kill. And sometimes, yeah, people will just piss you right the ######### off. You're the killer, it's your game, it's up to you to decide when you feel like the lines of sportsmanship have been crossed.
Survivors will complain about lots of things. Sometimes it's legit, sometimes it's not. Most complaints I get are from the sweatiest of tryhards and they're usually from pro loopers who get mad that I don't chase them halfway across the map every time they point at me.
So you'll get bitched at no matter what you do. It's good to be classy, but remember: you're a killer. Empathy is not part of the job description.
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I think not getting the kills is the punishment. The Entity tortures survivors for fun, it feeds on their anguish, whereas it seems to respond to the grief, rage, and lust for vengeance in killers. That's why it takes their side in trials, killers are the Entity's tools for getting fed.
There'd be no point in sacrificing them, they don't have any of that juicy hope left. That's why they became killers.
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I think Object of Obsession is a great perk. It has the perfect name.
If someone uses it, I become obsessed with killing them. I will throw the entire game if it means they die first. Since I have a preference for stealth killers though, I tend to be rewarded rather than punished for tunneling them.
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@Kilmeran said:
@Rydog The fact that anyone would have to come in and claim that it would cause players to run out of things to do just speaks volumes to a weak core game design, then.
I played Overwatch since Beta and never ran out of things to do. Why? Because I was constantly looking to improve on certain characters while learning others. I only left Overwatch recently because of RoleQ and the fact that I'm burned out and done with shooters.
I played Paladins for years. Why? Because I didn't have to grind to unlock the cards to do my Champion builds after the OB64 fiasco was reversed and fixed. I can experiment with any build on any character right out of the gate. What kept me engaged? Learning new Champions, getting better with my main Champions, and experimenting with builds, some serious and some meme builds. Again, I only left Paladins due to shooter genre burnout. Not because I ran out of things to do.
A grind to "keep people playing" is just a blatant Band-Aid for weak core design, especially in a PvP game.
What is the engagement factor in DbD for me? Learning killers, improving with killers, experimenting with Perk builds on Killer and Survivor. Or, at least I can maybe experiment one of these days once I sleep through the absolutely asinine grind and RNG.
What keeps driving me away from DbD, which is the reason why I've never played it consistently in the 16 months I've owned it? The asinine grind coupled with the bloodweb RNG. Hell, three family members are major Stranger Things fans. They saw the announcement for the DLC out in the wilds of the internet and were interested in buying DbD and the DLC. I explained the grind for new players to them and how the upcoming "changes" do nothing for new players.
They decided not to buy.
Yup, long grind + RNG will do a lot of people in.
To be honest, I can handle the bloodweb itself. If I could get everything I need for a killer just by playing that killer and going through their web, it wouldn't be as bad.
The fact that there is an entire RNG bloodweb for every character is a bit daunting, but still not that bad until the teachable system comes in and you have to go through that individual blood web multiple times just for one well-geared killer.
This is compounded by the fact that progression is tied to character but rank is tied to account. If I play any other game with a leveling system, my level 1 characters don't start at the same difficulty as my level 35 characters. That would be insane.
So it's not just that it's a long grind, it's a sprawling network of tangentially related grinds which a player has to navigate for themselves and, if they don't get it right on the first try, they'll be punished for it down the road. This is the kind of stuff I would expect from a decades-old RPG like Morrowind, not a PvP game in 2019.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/675601#Comment_675601
Unless they make it so you can guarantee which two perks you get, I worry it won't be as helpful as one would hope.
I only have a few teachables and it's still a PITA on killers I haven't already leveled up.
Me: *hoping and praying for BBQ*
The Entity: Bruh, lemme tell you about IRON GRASP and DISTRESSING
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Consolidarity.
I too played on max sensitivity and still find it sluggish at times. I haven't thoroughly tested it in this game, but my suspicion based on experience with other games is that the real problem comes not from the sensitivity but the deadzone, the amount of input required to trigger movement in the first place.
As someone who likes to snipe in shooter games on consoles, I ######### with the sensitivity a lot and most games do not have an option to increase or decrease the deadzone which is what they really need. Sensitivity usually just changes how fast it moves once it detects movement, not how soon it detects movement.
Either way, it's an issue. I've actually thought of starting a thread to ask if anyone thinks it's even worth learning Nurse on Xbox because so many people seem to sandbag the idea.
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I think Monstrous Shrine is my favorite because of the statement it makes, it's the visual equivalent of hearing Bubba's squealing. The imagery of the hook and pile of skulls is simple and stark, and the basement is such a thing of dread and resentment in this game.
I love a good endgame battle over the basement, especially if it's a shack basement.
It's probably a bit personal since I'm still a bit of a scrub and get outplayed by well-coordinated teams often, so it makes me feel like a big killer to be like, "Aw, you done ######### up and you're going to the basement now, boy!" when I catch some Olympic sprinter and use them to mess up the team's plans.
Honorable mention to Knock Out because that looks painful and Decisive Strike because it looks nasty, which it is.
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@Cejar13321 said:
this game overall is super newbie unfriendly, sadly you just have to push through like we all did
And I will/am, but I think it's worth examining if this aspect of the game's design actually benefits anyone. I'm cool with there being a grind, it's expected, but the one we have now is huge, complex, and somewhat opaque.
I enjoy this game because it's unique. There just aren't that many asymmetric PvP games out there, let alone asymmetric survival horror PvP games. I think that's awesome, but it's also a niche market. Every player this game retains will improve its overall health, but as you pointed out this game doesn't really welcome new players.
There are plenty of games with long grinds in them that I enjoy. The Borderlands series has an insane grind but I keep coming back to it because the fundamental gameplay loop is always there. If I want to play a sniper, I play a sniper. Whether he's level 10 or 50, he's a sniper and I improve him by sniping.
In DbD, I bought a stealth killer (Myers). In order to make him more stealthy (Monitor and Abuse), something recommended by every experienced player and streamer, I had to invest 35 levels in anti-stealth killer (Doctor).
In order to save BP, I needed to do this before I started leveling Myers. So this was my journey to playing Myers:
- Buy Myers in store, get excited, look up builds
- See M&A is necessary for maxing his stealth
- Don't play Myers, play 35 levels of Doctor instead
- BBQ and M&A by level 5, feel like a boss who planned things out well
- Get stomped because level 5 vs survivors with full T3 loadouts and purple add-ons
- Lose 3 ranks in 2 days of play while getting trash talked by SWF
That's just not fun. It's a lot of time spent wrangling bureaucratic systems that have nothing to do with actual gameplay, but have multiple ways of punishing gameplay if handled poorly.
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@joker7997 said:
Unlocking all the unteachables actually makes the grind for what you really want unlocked way harder. I messed up and did this, got all killers to 50, now when I prestige one unusually don't even get BBQ level 1 by the time I get it back up to 50. There are ways to maximize how quicky bps are gained you just gotta be smart about it
Oh, so there are multiple ways to severely mess up the grind without realizing it until it's too late. The account-based grind that cannot be restarted by any means. Cool, cool.
So far I've only unlocked three teachables -- BBQ, Ruin, and M&A. I'll make a list of all the ones I want to unlock and stick only to those. Thanks for the tip.
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RDR2 = Red Dead Redemption 2. Everyone's favorite tuberculosis simulator.
I play on console but I've got a little old laptop I keep nearby, I typically I browse the forums while waiting for the queue or shitpost on Twitter.
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I love int3er4ct, his videos have been immensely helpful.
The DbD reddit also has a ton of informative discussions.
I'd like to give a shout out to Otzdarva as my favorite DbD streamer, because he's a good mix of evil, chill, and helpful. He breaks down the internal synergies of his builds well while also explaining basic and advanced game mechanics and strategies.
OhTofu's Billy guide on Youtube was eyeopening. PainReliever's channel also has a ton of videos to help new players develop proper situational awareness for both survivors and killers.
I'm sure I'll think of more later, but those have been the most helpful to me so far. If I were to give any one single piece of advice to another new player it would be to follow the streams of advanced players. This game has so many subtle and nuanced mechanics that you don't realize just how much you're missing until you see it through the eyes of a pro.
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@Alice_pbg said:
What I find that helps me out, is leveling a different character than what I'm playing.
I'm currently leveling the pig(with the extra bp, I'm saving 1m for nancy) but I'm playing the other killers I already leveled up, or survivors that I have levelled up. This gives me more bloodpoints per match than when I played whoever I was leveling. And it doesn't really matter if the add-ons get scarce, because I have a fully levelled character to play as( fully levelled = got the teachables I wanted)
For instance, I was leveling the clown while playing meg, leveling meg while playing legion... so on and so forth
I can see how that would improve the experience and I will probably end up doing it. I began by focusing solely on unlocking teachables, since that was recommended to me, but I think BBQ is the only one that's truly mandatory for a beginner.
I still think it's counterintuitive and turns off new players by discouraging experimentation and exploration, though. Nowhere in the game's tutorials, or even in any of the streams I follow, have I seen or heard the recommendation of "pick one killer, grind to high level, make that your BP mule".
My reasoning for keeping my killers low level was that it costs more BP to get through each level the bloodweb, I figured if I only leveled killers as I needed to in order to unlock their perks, those perks would appear faster in the webs of the killers I actually wanted to play if they were still low level.
And it worked, I got BBQ and M&A on Myers by level 5, which was awesome. But now he's flailing and useless because half the gens are done before I get out of T1, because I ranked up so much while grinding Doc and Bubba, and I need game-slowing perks from other killers if I want to do more than T3 people at endgame collapse.
Honestly, if rank were based on killer rather than account, this would be much less of an issue for me. I could play one of my garbage killers in the scrub ranks and take my time learning my way around them rather than being forced to compete with sweaty tryhards, getting no BP and depipping after 3 out of every 4 matches.
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@pemberley said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676143#Comment_676143
I’m sorry that you’re so stressed but the grind is not very accessible to new players at all, and that’s a fact.
I admit survivor is much more forgiving with a weaker loadout since survivors can manage just fine with no perks at all, or even just self care. But killers NEED access to perks to even keep up with survivors on a similar or greater level than they are - and that definitely takes time. Even for someone who wants to play survivor and experiment with perks of their choice, that also takes a lot of time.
People a) want to play dbd and b) they DO have time to play - but the time it takes to have a desirable build in dbd is egregiously long and unfair for new players.
I’m sorry that you struggled so much that you feel like others should too, but the truth is that the grind needs to be easier on players.
Pretty much this.
I've already spent weeks (of my available playtime per day)unlocking BBQ, Ruin, and M&A. I bought every single killer. I read guides and watch streams almost every day to learn more and improve. This isn't a question of my willingness to make a commitment and stick by it, I don't want instant gratification, but the immensity of the grind on first approach is genuinely disheartening. This game is about to pick up a lot of new players, it would be cool to retain them.
Once I get every killer to 15 at least, where I'm able to go, "Hey, I feel like playing a few games of Plague," and it's not a ######### traumatic experience, everything will be fine. And one day I will have all the teachables unlocked, and I'll be able to experiment with meme builds or personal creations to my heart's content...
... but it's going to take a long time to reach that point, where I can start up the game and play without having to worry about how I'm going to maximize BP gain every session in order to make the most of each hour I put into the game.
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I think the extent of the issue is something mostly noticed by new players because we haven't had the chance to snowball with our progress yet. I seldom play for more than an hour or two per day, and I don't play every day.
I've unlocked a few teachables, enough to put together a build that doesn't suck entirely, but that still leaves me with most of my killers under level 10. It's not that I'm incapable of putting a killer into a trial that performs at a basic degree of ability, I don't find the game unplayable by any means (minus SWF spam and broken matchmaking with red/purple ranks), but I find that the grind is impeding the fun I can have with all the killers I bought.
Example: I bought Myers because he's cool, I wanted to play him. Everyone good said M&A is his best perk, so before I started pumping BP into Myers I got Doctor up to 35. In the process of grinding Doctor, I rank up a bunch. No sweat, except I probably got handed a few games I didn't earn because noob survivors really seem to struggle against him.
So now I'm in green ranks and survivors are starting to get sweaty, and I'm trotting out level 1, level 5, level 10 killers with one or two starter perks and no add-ons. If I want to try a new killer to learn their toolkit or do some grinding, I can expect to get stomped by some trash-talking SWF group with a full kit of T3 teachables.
The real mistake I made was sinking several hundred thousand BP into Trapper, thinking I might actually like Doctor and end up needing Unnerving Presence for him, but that was before I saw how play changed on ranking up. Doc's a lot less fun when survivors know what they're doing, at least for me, so I feel like I've painted myself into a corner like an old school RPG. Like I put all my points in Stealth and Diplomacy and there's an unavoidable boss fight that will require at least 60 points in Headbutting to get through.
It's not that I can't or won't do the grind, I can and will, it's that my ability to enjoy the game is being hobbled by it. My first focus was just on unlocking perks, because that's what was recommended to me by high-ranked streamers, but I see now that I probably will need a specific killer main to farm BP with.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/675730#Comment_675730
Which, if you're doing what most new players do, collecting teachable perks before moving onto the next character, will not be affected by the bloodweb change at all, since they only need to level up to 40.
Yep, this was the advice that was given by the streamers I follow. Focus on getting all the big, game-defining perks first.
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@Fibijean said:
You can always try just not playing the meta. If you're that new, you're not at red ranks, so it's not like you have to run meta perks just to have a fighting chance.
If it's any comfort to you, it used to be worse. Back in the day the grind was much longer (that's why legacy skins are a thing), perk slots were unlocked at higher levels, and no one started with any perks by default.
My advice would be to chill out a bit and just play the killer you're interested in playing. You don't have to grind for meta level teachables right away. Every killer has at least one unique perk that's not terrible, and you can pad it out with some decent universal perks like NOED, Iron Grasp, Sloppy Butcher, Bitter Murmur, or Whispers. Once you have your favourite killer at a decently high level, you can keep playing them, so you're still enjoying yourself, but use the points you earn to level other killers for teachables.
Also Barbecue helps, of course, so if you have Cannibal, prioritise that.
I do have BBQ and it does help, to the point of being near-mandatory. I found it early on Myers, for example, but not on Plague. The difference between them, regarding both performance in-game and progress through the bloodweb, is stark.
@Impala said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/675683#Comment_675683
You can still level up those killers without actually playing them. I agree, the grind can be a little too much in this game, but it isn't the worst I've seen, I guess they just wanna keep their players, but they should do something for the new players as well.
True... the only problem is that, for newer players, we might not have the reserve of add-ons required to enable that. My highest killer is Doctor at level 35 (which I got solely to unlock M&A for Myers), with BBQ/Distressing I can bring in around 50-60k BPs per game if I do well. But I usually need to use add-ons to do that well, and if I'm spending all my BPs on other killers' bloodwebs, then I'm not restocking my add-ons.
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@Chickenchaser said:
Instant gratification.
Slightly less artificially delayed gratification. I've already bought all the killers and done the grind to unlock some of the most important teachables, so it's not that I'm opposed to making a commitment.
@OGOzSnowChimp said:
What's wrong with the grind?
Well, it's long and hard and it's left me sore.
But seriously, my main complaint is the amount of time I have to spend investing in characters that I don't like just to improve the ones I do like. We're talking millions of BP and dozens of hours, at the very least, spent grinding Clown for PGTW, Legion for Discordance, Spirit for Spirit Fury, Nurse for Nurse's Calling...
I don't like or want to play any of those killers. I don't want to be forced to play this game several hours a day, every day, just to kit out one or two decent killers in under a month. At least not when I'm forced to only play ranked matches. That's a long time spent getting rolled by SWF teams with full kits while I struggle with mechanics I don't enjoy on killers with crappy perks and add-ons.
It's just not fun. And that's a shame, because this game can be a lot of fun.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Indicating SWF in lobby, I agree with that even thou devs won't do that cause of lobby dodge. Give Killers double BP or something when they play against SWF. Incentive is always better than penalties IMAO.
I'm okay with being paid to take a dive.
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The game goes to survivors capable of advanced tactics and coordination almost every time. Once the survivors get good enough to start fixing multiple gens at once in different parts of the map, only a few killers can put out enough map pressure to really compete.
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Myers. I love that big knife.
His T3 lunge is one of the greatest things in the game, too.
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I like the hook counter idea. I often forget, even the best streamers I watch still sometimes forget.
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Every killer with an instant down has requirements that prevent them from spamming it.
Myers and Ghostface have to stalk, Billy and Bubba have to deal with chainsaw mechanics. NOED lets you drop anyone with a tap on the head. No charging, no waiting, no cooldown.
Plus, groups will often panic and try to cleanse it after it's become active. So not only are you creating pressure points whenever you hook someone with NOED, the totem itself serves as a distraction.
Anything that keeps survivors from those exit gates is a good thing. They should be in the basement, where they belong.
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Having to deal with SWF groups and surprise red ranks in your game is a bit much.
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OoO is the one exception I make when it comes to face camping.
I could have zero kills at endgame collapse and one on the hook, I might patrol around the hook but I'll still leave room for sneaky survivors to outplay me for a safe unhook.
If I'm playing a stealth killer and someone is running OoO, though, they're going to die first. I will tunnel them into the ground with no remorse. I might even smack them while they're on the hook a few times just to express my contempt.
I usually try to be sporting, but screw that perk. If a survivor can turn off my power, I'm going to turn off the survivor.
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Thematically, I like Haddonfield. The vibe is very Halloween, I want to stalk people with Myers there just to immerse myself in fandom.
But then I remember what actually stalking people with Myers there is like and I say no ######### thank you. I dislike all the urban cluster maps, but Haddonfield is maddening.
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I have limited respect for master loop-jukers. It can be impressive, but usually there's no reason for me to play along as the killer. I'll get way more licks in if I just patrol gens.
The teams that really scare me are the ones that can coordinate, whether it's all piling on one generator or splitting up to cover two or more at opposite ends of the map. It's the ones who bait me off the hooked survivor in endgame collapse while their buddies swoop in for the save, the ones who take hits for each other, etc.
Awareness of one's teammates, the objectives, and the killer are what make for threatening survivors to me. I tend to shrug off the t-bagging Usain Bolt types.
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As a new killer main BBQ was the first perk I learned about and the first teachable I unlocked. It's perfect the way it is.
It has some tracking and a very nice BP bonus, making it extremely useful on low level killers, both skill-wise and character-wise. Maximizing the perk requires the killer to avoid excess camping or tunneling, and if you unlock it early on a new killer it will make it much easier to level them up because you get BP and tracking in one slot.
Everyone knows how to avoid it, there's plenty of warning to avoid it, and it makes survivors feel the way they should feel: the killer just hooked his last target, now he's looking for you.
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I agree with the people saying that survivors should get more team-related info in their HUD, baseline. The most important thing for survivors to do is coordinate their efforts, so the devs should do everything possible to encourage that.
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@RakimSockem said:
I've seen people complain about matches going too fast but the way I see it, if I'm in a long match (which for me is like more than 8 minutes), I'm bored and ready to kill myself as survivor or ready to let survivors escape as killer.
I think a match lasting between like 5-8 minutes is perfect. But what do yall think?
Around 10 minutes, can be a little shorter or a little longer. I don't enjoy very short matches, even when they're 4ks. I think everyone's happiest when they get a lot of BPs.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/671543#Comment_671543
Never as bad as a Doctor running 3 gen strat and refusing to chase anyone. Those games last half an hour or more sometimes
I love it when I'm playing Doctor and the survivors 3-gen themselves. I love it almost as much as I love survivors who t-bag at the pallet, forgetting that I can stun them out of dropping it.
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If you have BBQ and Distressing, you get a lot of tracking power and BP bonuses. Combine with Restraint add-on and you're guaranteed to hook everyone at least once.
It's not Impossible Skillchecks but if you want easy BP farming while being functionally omniscient, it's a fun option.