Warlock_2020
Warlock_2020
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@BigBubs said:
So , apparently (according to OP) it's the event fault that the queue times are crap xDThat is absolutely true. If you stopped to think about it, it would make sense.
- Game relies on a balance of 1 killer for 4 survivors. Anything that throws that off creates wait times for one side or the other.
- Survivors fill their vials, and kill themselves on the hook because they are getting better bp than on Double BP weekend. So killers are gaining rank, survivors are losing rank.
- If you have killers all moving up in rank, and survivors moving down in rank, you have rank 1-9 killers sitting forever because there are not enough survivors (See #1)
- If it were a bug, there would be a barrier time to the issue. The times killers are waiting vary on rank, not across the board. Thus, not the bug.
- At rank 18, my wife waits 20-40 minutes depending on day/time. At rank 11 I waited about the same. At rank 15 (I let myself lose rank by not killing survivors and letting them farm vials) I get matches within 5 minutes every time. Not a bug.
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As survivor, it can be a struggle to find a pallet now.
As a killer, I no longer even consider Enduring or BS because I rarely get pallet stunned/looped anymore.
I honestly find chases to be rediculously easy now, until you get to those red ranks where the really good loopers are.
If anything, they need to look at dead maps, like Shelter Woods, and add some pallets to those. I sort of miss getting the points for breaking them all.
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3/10
Very poor design. So many players saw the flaw in this to begin with. Killer lobbies were doomed due to survivors flipping to killer after 30 and the fact that killers kept gaining rank while survivors were losing rank. They don't care about gens and objectives. They only care about those sweet BP's and vials.
Concept was good, execution was very juvenile. I can't believe these guys get paid for this job and could not see a flaw that everyone else could see.
PS: For those saying it is just a lobby bug - that would mean wait times are predictable. My wait times have been: 33 minutes, 47 minutes, 16 minutes, and 37 minutes before first survivor shows up. It is a line, nothing more.
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It was foolish to divide it up to begin with. They should have seen the flaw in it. They have to maintain a 4 to 1 ratio of killer to survivor. If survivors fill their 30 vials, they move to killer to get 30 more. Too many killers, not enough survivors. Not only that, but killers 4k easily because survivors care more about vials and BP bonuses than gens and escaping. I get more by hitting 5 plants and dying than by doing all 5 gens, all totems, rescuing three people, and looping the killer for 2 minutes. HUGE flaw in the design.
Smarter to let you get 30 vials no matter how you want to do it. Or 60 overall. Keeps the balance. Now, they just need to let survivors continue to fill vials, even if they don't count, so they get the extra bp from petals. That will help killer lobbies significantly.
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Ummm...if you understand adrenaline to begin with, you would never have posted this. Adrenaline gives your entire body a jolt of strength, stamina, and energy. People have been drugged to near unconciousness, but awoken by a shot of adrenaline. It is how you pull people out of deadly shock as well.
It would easily wake someone up from a nightmare. What do you think wakes you up from your real life nightmares? People with low adrenaline have a problem waking up from nightmares. Yes, I am the type of bored person that reads medical and war journals. There is a surprising number of them about the affects of adrenaline.
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@SIX said:
I really don't find it hard to escape, but if you want bloodpoints, do what i did, buy Feng's chapter (i don't remember the chapter name) and play Doctor, that's what i do when i want to farm bloodpointsThat is a great idea, and part of the problem in this game. If you want to farm bp, you play killer. Just hope there are enough suckers out there that still play survivor, or you will sit in lobby forever.
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Funny how rank reset could effect me as a survivor, but not a killer? I face rolled every team I came across, including SWFs using bs perks and no addons. You guys love to defend the changes you like, but never stop to think about the overall ramifications to the game long-term. The practice of across-the-board nerfs to all players of one side or the other, regardless of rank or SWF compilation, is the problem in and of itself.
Wake up boys and girls. If they don't start looking at the game by group make-up and rank, this game will die. Already we have a shortage of new players, which is plainly obvious by the dead population in rank 16-20. No new players means no recruits to back-fill those who get bored with the game and quit.
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I don't know man. I am honestly getting bored with the game. Survivor is not very fun to play unless you are in a well coordinated SWF. Killing has gotten too easy unless facing a well-coordinated SWF.
I ran a little experiment.
I played 10 matches with my normal SWF (average players, at best) and we noticed an easy 40-50% drop in survival rate after the patch. It requires a lot of coordination to counter the patch nerfs. Such as sharing items back and forth, making sure you sabo hooks near generators, especially with so few pallets around. We had to start doing all the things that annoy the hell out of me as a killer in order to try and counter the drop off. It was not fun. It was like playing the game in a required manner, as opposed to taking whatever perks we want and whatever items we want and trying to survive. We had a roughly 30/70 survival rate (1-2 of us). That has now dropped to about 10% or less. With the new tactics, we can get back up to 25%.
I then played solo. Not only did I not survive any of the matches (Rank 11-13), there was only 1 match in which the gates opened. In one other match, someone found the hatch.
I struggled to find pallets, and found Lithe to be almost useless as too many vaults are too slow to risk anymore. Unless you are running straight to the window, it is too risky. Healing was horrendous. In the 20 matches above, 17 ran sloppy butcher, 12 ran Phobia, and the 2 Pigs made sure to have the hemorrhage effect on their traps. Healing was not only painfully slow, it was almost not worth the time at all. Only in the SWF was it worth it, and that required us teaming up on healing to make it worth stopping for.
I then ran 10 matches with Trapper. I used Agitation (3), Sloppy Butcher (2), NOED (R2), and NC (3). The only addon I used was the one that removes damage from the trap and awards extra BP. (Sorry, can't remember the name.) Out of 10 matches, I had 1 opening of the gates, in which I still killed 3 of them, and 1 Hatch survivor. I found it almost too easy. People stayed injured, it was almost like running Devour and nobody finding it all game.
We all yell back and forth about balance and who has it easy. The fact of the matter is, the game is losing its luster because we are too busy looking at it as killers vs survivor. We should be looking at it as SWF vs Solo, and High Rank play vs Low Rank play. That is the only way to balance this game correctly.
Maybe I just need to take a break and hope the devs eventually wake up. Not like I'll miss much with the Halloween event - Ugh.
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I have a fullproof plan to avoid the frustration of competing with survivors while trying to survive vs a tryhard killer that wants serum too. Simple, I'm going to work the gen and leave. I like cosmetics as much as the next guy/gal in this game, but this is not worth it. Adapting to survivor changes is enough a challenge right now. Last thing I want to do is waste time sucking on a flower while the killer camps it. lol
Nope, even more of a gen rush than before.
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The only killers you will get to agree with you are those who also enjoy running survivor. No killer mains want to admit the game is broken for both survivor and killer. Just like no survivor mains will admit it either. Most killer addons are not that big of a deal, some are very much a big deal.
The problem with the "get gud" argument always thrown out there by the toxic elite (Yes, toxic elite) is that they forget they are the minority numbers in games like this. This game attracted a bulk of casual players that make it continue because of their love for the horror genre. They will rarely rank past 9-12. Most won't even get that high. That is part of the reason why very high ranks have problems getting games in a timely manner. Not enough people playing at that rank. (Just like the very low ranks, not enough new players because the game is strangling them out.)
The answer is to look at balance within the rank system itself. They first need to fix the rank system. Stop allowing players to purposely lose rank. There are lots of ways to do it, but we will not get into the minutia of it now due to derailing the topic. The point is that the community is one of the biggest enemies to improving this game. It is filled with complaining players that point at the other side as the problem. Meanwhile, the developers keep putting out new cosmetics. lol
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I don't get it. Most matches I see between ranks 10-15 are 2-4 kills a match. The average ratio for kills at higher ranks is 2+ as well. You want to make it harder for survivors to do gens, loop, stealth, and heal? I play killer, and openly admit that the gens are typically done pretty quick, but extending the gen timer as an across the board change would break the game for survivors. The problem is coordinated SWFs, thus the nerfs need to be thrown on those groups, not all survivors. Furthermore, you can't use the same nerfs on rank 16-20 that you use on rank 1-7. Killers are very powerful compared to survivors at lower-skilled ranks. Nerfing them would only discourage new players, thus equate to a dead game within a year.
If you want to do it right, you do it by rank and SWF.
Highest member of SWF being the target:
Rank 16-20: No nerfs to gen speed
Rank 11-15: Base 10% for 2 member SWF with additional 4% for each additional member.
Rank 6-10: Base 15% for 2 member SWF with additional 4% for each additional member.
Rank 1-5: Base 20% for 2 member SWF with additional 5% for each additional member.At rank 1, a 4 man SWF will have a 25% slower gen speed, sabotage speed, and consumption on tool boxes. This will slow the game down without causing balance issues across the board.
I openly admit that the numbers are likely not correct, it is just the concept I'm speaking of. Furthermore, perks at tier 3 should not function at that level in rank 16-20. No perk should be above rank 2 at that level. Again, balancing the lower levels out. This protects new players from experienced ones who farm a survivor/killer character in order to buff a character to P3 with great perks in ranks 16-20. It is easy to do, and again can cause less players to join the game. Ever notice how hard it is to get a match as a killer at rank 18-20? Partly because there are so few new players. Stagnation will kill DBD.
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Killers who think this will add to the game time are wrong. Players will knock out totems pretty fast since most are by a gen. It may add 20 seconds to the game, at most, but that is all. It just ensures that NOED will become the normal part of cleansing. I play killer more than survivor and I have noticed that NOED has not triggered in a higher percentage of my maps. I have not noticed any significant shift in Gen completion though. Still popping like mad.
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Before patch, I refused to use Alert 3 because it was useless. Empathy and Object of obsession were way better. Now, I have actually put it in to a couple of my builds. Object of Obsession is still better, but Alert is now useable. Alert does not give me a picture of the killer whenever I want it. It is also very quick, so if I don't pay attention, I miss it. Unlike perks like NC, Chili, Murmur, Rancor, etc. I play all but Chili on various killers and those are much better than Alert. Much more useful for defeating stealth.
All Alert is doing is to give a stealth assist to survivors. Considering the changes that impact aggressive gameplay, this just acts as a counter balance in order to give survivors better chances to evade with stealth.
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Nope. Work all game, got rid of NOED, running for gate, and exposed because I'm trying to leave? No. If you want to stop people from hanging around in the map when nobody is hooked and doors are opened, then make them get exposed after X minutes. That will get them out the door.
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@Peanits said:
Completely ignoring the sabotage and hook spacing changes I see.I found the hook spacing to be more helpful than bad. Especially on Coal Tower map. There were a lot of blank spots before that left you without an option to carry a survivor. Now, I always have a hook within range.
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Though I am not wild about the healing nerf, or the window nerf as a survivor, I do like them as a killer. I'm more afraid that the attempt to limit aggressive survivor play will do a lot of harm unless stealth play gets a boost vs aura reading killer talents.
That said, I think there is only one very bad adjustment in this patch, and that is the swamp changes. I've played 7 matches in swamp today as both killer and survivor. Every one of them was a 4k. The killer (I used Shape, Pig, and Trapper) can control that map with absolute ease now. You can see both exits from either the boathouse, or the Pantry. I have amazing view of the whole field for stalking with Shape when I'm on the boathouse.
As survivor, we could hardly avoid the Dr.s aura when he had extended aura perks. All you saw all match was screaming all over. He just needed to move around the middle and pick targets. Nurse was an absolute joke. Hag owned the map with absolute ease. She was able to camp three hooks while keeping an eye on doors.
The big problem is generator placement. They are way too condensed now. I was able to pick 5 gens to monitor with ease as Pig, Shape, and Trapper. A couple of well-placed traps limited movement outside of my zone. I was surprised at how easy it was.
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@Darktronik said:
What do you mean by play agressive?But I am glad they are fixing it. You were not supposed to play agressive, to create a 1v1 scenario. You are supposed to fear the killer cause he is OP in a 1v1 situation. I mean, of course the main purpose of the game is to create chasing situations and give survivors tools to keep the chase going, but not for too long.
Now if you want to play agressive, you have to deal with a little bit more of the consequences.
I mainly play solo too. I aim to at least pip one time and there is a formula to do it: gix 2 gens, make 1 hook save, engage in a chase for a few minutes. Everything after that, is for fun. Even if I end up dying. I will still pip.
I agree, but you are not looking at the problem on the survivor side. If they want to lower the aggressive nature of survivors, they need to up the stealth game. With all the aura perks out there, stealth is a very limited game. Sorry, but the concept of being to evade a 10 second aura perks is not realistic. That is why survivors started playing aggressive. They needed another route to last in a match. I've played both sides and can tell you that stealth play is a joke in this game right now. When I can see you if you heal, finish a gen, when I hook someone (you are either close, or I can see you), etc then how are you supposed to stealth? Seriously, a good Billy, Nurse, or Spirit can be practically on top of you in the time BBQ is up.
I am fine with limiting aggressive play, but they should consider boosting some other form of survival. Otherwise, it will be 4ks ever game. That will kill the game as a whole.
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@Malakir said:
Warlock_2020 said:@not_Queen said:
Hello @witulo , let me clarify some things for you.
We ban for DC Yes, we are punishing players who are leaving games.
They are ruining the experience of 4 other players and that's unacceptable, whatever the reason behind it.
Yes, there are fair reasons to leave games Personal emergency? Hardware issue? Power surge? Game crash?
These are examples that are OUT OF THE PLAYER'S HANDS, they do not occur regularly and will not cause the player to show up on our list.
Leaving games as an habit We are punishing the HABIT of leaving games, the habit of ruining other player's experience.
The % we apply to the player's profile (game leaves / game played) is high enough for us to be confident in our processes and to know we are punishing the right players, the ones that made an habit of leaving.
We are taking responsibility You are mentionning that People play games to have fun , we agree with that statement. We are not saying our game is perfect, far from it, but most players are able to play without leaving and enjoy the challenge
We want these players to have a great experience, and for that, the leavers need to go.
This is an absolute joke. You are punishing the habit of ruining other player's game experience? What do you call a new player being face camped and taunted in 4 of 5 matches? What do you call a rank 17 killer being forced to play an SWF with more than one rank 2-3 player in it because they have a low ranking friend? Those rank 2s commence to all but destroy the gameplay for the killer involved. You don't seem to give a rats azz about that. This is an absolute joke. I hate DC'ers as much as the next guy, but don't wave your morality flag around like you care about gameplay experience when you promote toxic play by others who outright admit to "..feeding off the salt" of others due to their toxic play. (Yes, I admit that many complain over stupid reasons, but when you have killers streaming how they love when a survivor starts in their aura and gets downed right away and then they get to face camp them while striking them over over - don't even pretend you care about that player's experience.)
The hypocrisy here is limitless.
Hopefully this comment won't be seen as spam as the last one. Anyway you talk about hypocrisy but as far as I can see you want to force people to play how you wish. It won't work especially if you don't bring any solution just criticizing. Most things you said are true but as sad you can't force people to do anything just incentive people to do something that's more fun. About streamers who camp and love to keep hitting people on the book.. I never saw them unless they are minor streamers which I wont even country. In any online games jerks exists , just look LoL and how even there trolls and toxicity is high AF even if they get punished faster and worse than here, same for overwatch etc, popular examples so everybody can get it. About people rank 2 matched in rank 17 surveys for swf it doesn't happen as often as you present and ONE DC won't cause anything bad to the host either as a bank or soft ban, being a rare thing. When i started playing I took that occasion to improve as a little challenge to overcome. To conclude Deva ain't responsible for others actions, can just punish who abuse mechanics and incentives good behavior as ANY other online game
(EDITED PORTION: Yes, the high ranking player with low ranking SWF problem is much more prevalent than you admit to. I played 8 matches of killer last night and 7 of them had at least one rank 2-4 in it. I'm a rank 12...was a rank 12 killer. I would say easily 60% of my matches have this problem.)
No, it is not a matter of wanting people to play as I want them to. It is a matter of using the "...ruining the gameplay experience for others." excuse and how full of crap it is when you take those other examples into consideration. I know several people who have quit the game because of toxic gameplay ruining their experience, and it had nothing to do with DC'ing.
The problem is that so many of the people on this forum want to defend the developers as opposed to holding their feet to the fire. This game has much worse problems than DC'ing. Broken lobbies being one. If you could get more matches, you would have a much better ratio of DC vs full games. If you could get more matches without high ranking players joining low ranking lobbies due to SWF exploits, you have more players evenly matched. But no, we are going to act as if DCing is the worst thing in the world. I see people DC all the time. Had two of them do it as soon as the match started. The next match, someone DC'ed when I first down them, then I was left with two rank 2s and a rank 7 in my match as a rank 14 killer. Needless to say, that was fun being flashlight stunned every step I took and then when I finally get one I get to enjoy a DS. The next one I got was pointless too. They had already 99'ed all the hooks. Does not matter to developers that high ranking players are ruining the fun of low ranking players, but those DCers are the devil!
(Caveat: I fully understand that game mechanics are what they are. I get that flashlight stunning is a designed part of the game. But you have a ranking system for a reason. Part of that is so newer players can learn without facing those who are experts that more-or-less run them out of the game. By allowing this to go on as long as they have, it is hurting the game by destroying the gameplay experience of those newer players.)
If they are going to say they are concerned with the quality of player experience then they should be addressing their lobby and matchmaking issues first and foremost. How long has the lobby been broken for killers? Months? But we have new clothing options available! Woohoo!
That is the very definition of hypocrisy. You may be ok with it, but I would rather call them out on it.
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Excellent post OP - I just have two thing to offer that differs a bit.
- I don't care about tea bagging. Seriously. If that gets some poor schlupp's rocks off, let him do it. Does not bother me. I find most people do it just before getting owned. Should not be bannable.
- SWF - I've seen the havoc an organized SWF can lay down on a killer. Especially if you get high ranks mixed in with their low rank buddies against a low rank killer. It is a 20 minute torture session. Most of the time, they are just trying to get the killer to dc. That is their real victory. That said, not all SWFs have this coordination. Low ranking players in an SWF usually still get owned by the killer. I know, I've destroyed countless of them as I learned the game. My own SWF consists of a legally blind woman (my wife), and two sons who just like running around and trying to do gens. They could not escape a killer to save their life - in game that is. Neither cares about looping, etc. They just enjoy the "fear factor".
My solution: Nerf the activity times of SWFs based on both rank and the number in the SWF. Lower rank SWFs get a slight nerf to gen times, healing, sabo, etc. Higher rank SWFs get bigger nerfs - say a 15% gen/healing time nerf with a 20% increased consumption on items. For each member past 2, they get an additional 7%. That slows the game down, giving the killer a chance. Are the numbers perfect? Nope, but it is the concept that should be considered.
Oh, and more objectives please. Like - two hooks with blue auras for the killer. If the killer gets someone on the hook, it causes all checks to become 25% more difficult. If he sacrifices someone, all checks become very difficult checks. OR a survivor objective - complete a ritual and receive a 1 minute stealth boost where you leave no scratch marks.
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@not_Queen said:
Hello @witulo , let me clarify some things for you.We ban for DC
Yes, we are punishing players who are leaving games.
They are ruining the experience of 4 other players and that's unacceptable, whatever the reason behind it.Yes, there are fair reasons to leave games
Personal emergency? Hardware issue? Power surge? Game crash?
These are examples that are OUT OF THE PLAYER'S HANDS, they do not occur regularly and will not cause the player to show up on our list.Leaving games as an habit
We are punishing the HABIT of leaving games, the habit of ruining other player's experience.
The % we apply to the player's profile (game leaves / game played) is high enough for us to be confident in our processes and to know we are punishing the right players, the ones that made an habit of leaving.We are taking responsibility
You are mentionning that People play games to have fun , we agree with that statement. We are not saying our game is perfect, far from it, but most players are able to play without leaving and enjoy the challenge
We want these players to have a great experience, and for that, the leavers need to go.This is an absolute joke. You are punishing the habit of ruining other player's game experience? What do you call a new player being face camped and taunted in 4 of 5 matches? What do you call a rank 17 killer being forced to play an SWF with more than one rank 2-3 player in it because they have a low ranking friend? Those rank 2s commence to all but destroy the gameplay for the killer involved. You don't seem to give a rats azz about that. This is an absolute joke. I hate DC'ers as much as the next guy, but don't wave your morality flag around like you care about gameplay experience when you promote toxic play by others who outright admit to "..feeding off the salt" of others due to their toxic play. (Yes, I admit that many complain over stupid reasons, but when you have killers streaming how they love when a survivor starts in their aura and gets downed right away and then they get to face camp them while striking them over over - don't even pretend you care about that player's experience.)
The hypocrisy here is limitless.
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@Fishcat said:
Also I was just seriously just asking a question cause its hard for me to understand that some people really get offended by thatThis is the problem with many kids and young adults now days. They have zero empathy. This is not necessarily your fault, it is the online world you live in. The ability to empathize with others requires lots of interaction with people in a face-to-face setting. It also requires you experience triumph, failure, sorrow, joy, etc in that setting. You obviously have not had enough opportunities to do that. Therefore, you can't empathize with a stranger in a crappy situation. So, you insult them while they are struggling, and then wonder why that upsets them. Fail on the human level.
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So, the idea of tea bagging is that you are putting your privates in their mouth - and you are asking why people get mad when you are using that in the game? You are insulting them. When a killer is facing a well organized SWF, or a survivor who is really good with looping and flashlight bombing, and that player teabags constantly, of course it is insulting and frustrating.
You are immature, and you like to act that way. Own up to it. I have many times escaped a killer, or tricked them, but I can honestly say I've never tea bagged a killer. Why? I don't need that immature activity to validate my existence. I usually just share a laugh after the game with the killer. Unfortunately, to some people, an achievement in a video game is their only real accomplishments, so they feel the need to brag by being rude. Kind of sad to be honest.
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There is a lot of truth in this OP's statement. This company has allowed some seriously toxic behavior to carry on in this game. Behavior that is detrimental to the game, yet they punish those avoiding it? I know, not everyone is lag switching. There are those DC'ing in order to de-rank. That said, I have seen many players DC because of a toxic killer, or toxic SWF. Toxic?! But camping/looping/flashlight stunning is a legit strategy placed in the game! Sure, but when those are the sole thing a player does, and they do it in order to annoy other players, it is toxic.
Example: SWF consisting of a lvl 20, 19, 2, & 2 survivor vs a lvl 18 killer who is trying to learn the game (my wife - who is technically legally blind and just wants to have some fun). The rank 2s, and the rank 19 (who was much better than his rank) looped, stunned, flashlight stunned, tea bagged, body blocked, and generally harassed the killer the whole map. She could not go anywhere without someone jumping out with a flashlight, or looping her. She got zero hooks, and was mercilessly mocked after the game. She quit playing for a while. I just recently got her to play survivor again, and the first thing that happens is she starts a match in the Dr.'s aura, screams, gets downed pretty quick (was in a bad area of coal tower with no pallets nearby), and the killer commences to stand in front of her shaking his head up and down. That was so much fun for her, she quit playing again. She stated, "######### do I want to play a game with that type of community?! Screw that! There are actual fun games to play with much better communities." I could not argue with her. She was 100% right.
These problems are on the developers lap. They have ways of fixing it. They can make tweaks based on rank brackets. They can put nerfs in for SWF groups. They can punish toxic behavior, or abuse of game mechanics. They can easily limit the use of game mechanics. After the killer being blinded 3 times in a match, they gain 50% resistance, and it continues to get stronger. If the killer never leaves X distance from the hook, without being in a chase, in rank 20-14 matches for X games, he gets a ban for behavior. (These are not perfect ideas, just thoughts.)
They have done little to nothing to shore up the loopholes that allow all of this crap. They are the ones responsible for fixing it.
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Though I hate DCers and especially deranking, I have to say that those of you making the argument that it ruins the gameplay for four other people are barking up the wrong tree. Why? Simple, there are hundreds of threads in here where killers support other killers who face camp (for lack of a better phrase) while taunting players, saying it is a legit strategy. And while camping is a legit strategy at higher levels of the game, face campers who do this for the soul reason of "getting salt" from low level survivors have repeatedly stated they don't care about the fun of other players. Thus, they don't care that someone started in their aura, got downed immediately, and face camped. Therefore, I don't care about whether DCers ruin the fun of others. (To caveat, I do care about the enjoyment of the game for me and others playing it. But I find it hypocritical for that to be the main argument of some when this community has constantly shat upon that factor when referring to low ranking campers.)
What I do care about is that people are manipulating ranks through the practice of DC'ing. The idea that a much higher skill-level of player is intentionally going to lower ranks in order to out perform lower ranked players is a major flaw in the system. It is already bad enough that high ranking people join low ranking swf groups and face low ranking killers. I've watched my wife get tortured in those maps. Yes, tortured. Looped and flashlight stunned constantly, never even getting a chance to hook a player. It is a mess.
Shame on the developers for allowing this in the first place.
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Here's another idea - Why not let each killer "prestige" a hex, making it no longer count against their perks count? One hex, and only one hex. Killers are in a map with 4 perks and 4 survivors who each have 4 perks. Why not let them choose a hex to be efficient with once they prestige?
Why? Because when the survivor destroys the hex in the first 60 seconds, the killer is now playing with 3 perks vs 16 survivor perks. Only DS is a one-and-done perk for survivors, and that one is a big one.
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I don't like punishing the survivors for doing objectives, but I do like the first two. I say, instead of not glowing, how about a soft red glow of the eyes that is not easily seen until you get close. That, and all killers should be made aware when a hex totem is being tampered with. So, if I run Ruin, I should get an explosion notification when someone toys with my Ruin hex. I then can go in for the save, or ignore it. Furthermore, the actual hexed totem should take 25% longer to destroy than dull ones. It is, after all, hexed.
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If they think they can get enough participation in ranked without SWF, then sure, have ranked be without SWF. If not, then SWF needs to have certain challenges in ranked. Nerf gen times, certain perks should be limited, etc. SWF is entirely different than solo play because the survivors can coordinate to extremes, therefore, if they want to have ranked SWFs, they should be less powerful than a solo survivor.
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League is a good example on the rank system and adjustments that can be made.
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Again Wolf, I agree with you mostly. I too play the stealth game and am quite good at it. That said, the aura perks become more and more difficult to counter and most people don't play it that well.
Don't assume I'm a toxic scumbag either. I choose not to loop, or be a flashlight soldier who harasses the killer. Why? Because I don't think that is the game experience that was in mind when they created the game. That said, I can openly see that survivors have a very limited group options. I would absolutely love to see looping removed. When is the last time you saw a killer looped in a horror movie, perhaps a parody movie instead? At the same time, I'd like to see more options for players to evade, but not endlessly. Perhaps more places to hide, like the cabinets. What about boxes, crates, or a cubby somewhere? Something. End looping, encourage more hiding spots. Those are temporary and would not upset balance too much.
Oh, I can also admit openly that by choosing to not play toxic, I limit my options greatly. I depend entirely on faking out the killer (much harder at higher levels), or breaking line of sight and going stealth, which is very limited against good killers, or those with the right aura sites at the right time. So, don't assume someone arguing against closing windows is against ending looping. I just want to see more evasion options that don't create endless loops of stupidity.
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Deranking really would not change too much. The survivor who deranks will quickly rank back up. That is a yo-yo that they will toy with no matter what. The number of survivors who do that, or killers, is a bit limited overall.
As long as we argue about the same rules across all ranks, we will never achieve the slightest semblance of balance, and even risk destroying the player base. Tyde mentions a game that has great balance, but has no player base. Therefore, it was wasted. This game has so much potential, but we will see what happens. Having a player base that starts to view it as a multi-layered game will be a good start towards getting balance, but we will see.
I enjoyed the discussion Wolf. Hope to see you in game, unless you are a lot better than me, then I hope we don't meet in game.
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@Tsulan said:
@Orion said:
Ranks 20-16 are isolated from the rest, and it's impossible to derank below 15. I recommend waiting until the next rank reset, one week from now.He knows whats up.
The devs created the noob ranks to make it a save place for new players. So veterans can´t depip and bully or stomp them. But in doing this, they messed up the matchmaking for the noob ranks, which results in extremely long queues like yours.Unfortunately, survivors have found a way to do just this. They just join an SWF with their rank 20 friend and torture low rank killers. Been seeing a lot of my rank 11-14 games filled with multiple rank 2-6 players in each. My wife gave a stab at playing killer at rank 20 and faced 2 rank 6s in her group with 2 rank 20s.
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@yeet said:
wow I can't brainlessly infinite loop a killer now! I should never have to think playing survivor waaaaah!As much as I hate looping, what other strategies do survivors have? Stealth does not work with all the aura reading abilities. Evasion has a very low chance of working due to aura reading, noises, blood/scratch marks, whispers, etc. That leaves....looping, or blinding the killer.
I've spent enough time chasing survivors in circles (I tend to not do it long) to know how frustrating it is. At the same time, if they don't have those circles, I'm usually going to down them within 30 seconds or less because they have few ways to get away. Though, with me, hiding can work due to being color blind and not being able to see the scratch marks/blood to begin with. I hunt like a T-Rex, all about movement!
Seriously, they need different options for survivors to get away, without making it the infinite loop.
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I agree Wolf. The game has no such changes on the horizon. That is the problem. If they want true balance, they can't do it with one across the board change. That is what they are doing, and that is why changes harm one end or the other. They currently try to balance things based on survivor or killer, where it is better (as many other games have figured out) to do it based on both survivor and killer as well as tier.
The ideas I'm speaking of are more about what needs to happen, and why we keep getting in these dumb conversations about killer vs survivor. It is because the views from the top to bottom are so different. It is almost two different games.
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It does not take 2 minutes to do that though. It takes many a minute to a minute and a half. Most of them will do it while others are opening gates. After the gates are opened, it is time to get out. If you are hanging out and trying to taunt the killer, then the killer needs to be given tools to eliminate the harassment.
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No, I apologize if it came across as me calling you out. I was meaning it more in generalities. I used to play at a very competitive level in some games, and I met a lot of player that were clueless.
As for not being able to balance for both, you absolutely can.
You do it by rank.
In games where the ranks are 15+, the killer gets the emblem nerf for staying near the hook. The killer also gets bonus points for hooking a different player than the last. The players, perhaps, get a 5% speed nerf on gens when the killer leaves the hook by more than 32 meters. This encourages low-rank killers to hunt the low-ranked survivors instead of standing at the hook. It also helps both players and killers learn the game and experience more aspects of it. This is not difficult coding, and can be done based on the matching system currently in place.
Higher rank games, say 1-8 (these ranks are just examples), SWF teams of 3 or more automatically get a nerf to gen speed of 15%. This slows the game down, regardless of perks. Killers get a buff to light resistance, not as good as the perk, but say 25%. Each game has a false totem that spawns. Killers get the benefit of brutal strength in all matches rank 1-8, making their damage to generators more effective as well as pallet breaks.
This is not overly difficult coding, almost a simple If/Then based on player ranks. You can do much more. My ideas in this post are just for conversation. Either way, there are aspects of the game that can be changed based on rank without reworking perks, or maps. Just overall atmospheric changes. Think along the lines of many MMOs that have world events that allow low level and high level players to participate and carry an equal weight. Or some pvp-based games that balance gear by giving nerfs/buffs based on gear score. Same thing.
It takes the development team being dedicated to weighing these issues and seriously wanting to balance the game.
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Yes, but most of the survivors we are talking about are the toxic ones that just want to taunt and teabag the killer. Better to discourage their behavior by overpowering them. Again, I play survivor mostly, but I don't live to torture the killer. I play to have fun, and work to "win", not always by surviving, but by earning a pip and helping the team. So, I am all for survivor chances, but I have played killer enough (topped at rank 10) to see how toxic and ridiculous survivors can be.
Especially SWFs with a rank 17 and three rank 2s vs a rank 13. Not fun at all.
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You want to see survivors get out quick? (From a survivor main - I play killer 40% right now)
After gens are done and door is opened:
1 - 90 seconds (no hooked players) the killer can see all auras
2 - All survivors suffer form exposed
3 - Hooked players are immediately sacrificed - no chance to get off the hook or be saved (just like 3rd hook)
4 - Decisive Strike is disabled
5 - Killer's blind resistance is increased by 90%
6 - Survivor is stunned for 3 seconds after being downed and will be moved 3 meters away from exit - therefore standing at the exit will not save you.Survivors will get the f out in a hurry.
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@Wolf74 said:
@Warlock_2020 said:
Tyde is correct on much of what he says, but he does not get that this game is broken into two games. There is the high-end game, and the low-end game. The bulk of the players are on the mid to low end. He is judging the game from the top. If we treat all levels from that view, we lose the bulk of players. A lot of good a balanced game with no player base is. That's called a dead game. Dead by balance.Games need to get balanced from the top down.
Literally EVERY other game -at least those that want to be competitive- do that.
Heck, DBD is holding official tournaments.
If they do, they need to balance like that.
If they want it to be "just casual", they should say it and stop pretending it to be a tournament game.You don't seem to understand that they can do both. They can preserve the casual game, while balancing the high-end. They have a rank system already in place, that is the road map. If try to balance across the board, it will always cause one end to be out of balance. This game is not a big enough game to exist on the high-end alone, with tournaments and competitive attention. It is made for more casual fans of the genre, yet has an aspect that can reach that competitive crowd. They need to balance accordingly.
Many games already do this. The top brackets, or competitive players tend to have different abilities or "balance" than those who play casually. They also have a much more experienced development team that cares about keeping balance on both ends. The issues this game suffers from is a laziness by their developers. An unwillingness to look at the varying level of game play from the top to the bottom. Unfortunately, much of its top-tiered player base is also ignorant of the business needs of a game like this. They think their level of play is all that matters, thus you end up with a well-balanced game with too few players to do much with.
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Tyde is correct on much of what he says, but he does not get that this game is broken into two games. There is the high-end game, and the low-end game. The bulk of the players are on the mid to low end. He is judging the game from the top. If we treat all levels from that view, we lose the bulk of players. A lot of good a balanced game with no player base is. That's called a dead game. Dead by balance.
At the top, the survivors are very powerful and filled with skilled players. But Dead by Daylight is a bit unique in that it attracts players that don't usually play competitive games due to its horror genre. Therefore, many players are not very good at the whole survivor thing, nor will they ever get better due to other priorities or just skill limit in general. For instance, my wife loves the game, but she is legally blind and suffers from the ravages of pancreatic cancer. She will NEVER be a top-tier player. She has nearly quit several times due to the insane amount of camping in tier 16-20. Luckily, I've staved that off. This game has attracted players of all age brackets, and can easily lose them too.
At the bottom, those players are way overpowered by killers. Why do you think the camping nerf exists? Not because it is a cheap tactic, like Tyde said, it is a legit tactic vs top-tier players. But it is massively used by low-skilled killers to destroy low-skilled survivors that will likely never improve (see statement above). So, the player base begins to shrink, rank 14-20 survivors start to quit or switch to killer because they are tired of being camped and tunneled an not getting to experience the game. To those people (again, the bulk of the people paying $), the game is about that fear of running around, trying to do a gen, getting a chance to have fun. Not entering a map, getting caught, and camped/tunneled without ever doing anything.
That is why the developers really need to look at tiered nerfs/buffs. Stop punishing all killers/survivors with nerfs. Look at nerfing SWFs at higher ranks. Look at nerfing camping based on rank, or better yet, encourage a more hunting/chasing gameplay by killers at the level. Give them more rewards for leaving the hook, and hooking a different survivor each time. That increases the enjoyment of that casual base (which is typically larger than the hardcore) while being able to focus on making the high-end more balanced.
It would take more effort and thought than these developers are willing to do though. But, Tyde needs to remember that most of the players in this game will never achieve his level of gameplay. That is why his view is so narrow in scope.