Valuetown
Valuetown
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931833#Comment_3931833
No? I just don't understand what "License holder says no" (Which we don't know and we keep getting RE and SH stuff etc so that's invalid) has to do with anything. Unless I'm misunderstanding, you kind of typed a lot out.
I love the original chapters too, Unknown is my killer main, but I also love all of the horror IP's that have been added too… I just want more outfits for my favourite characters.
It's as simple as that.I can tell you are not very well versed in the business side of things, which is fine, but there's more to the equation than just making whatever and selling it.
If you are making content for licensed franchises, the license holder is in full control of everything. If they say no, but you put whatever you want in the game anyway, they will revoke your license, send a cease and desist, and take legal action if the terms of their license is not followed.
Look up artificial scarcity. Saving resident evil skins for a potential 3rd DLC release to generate hype is a possibility.
Long story short, just because it wouldn't take a lot of effort to add doesn't mean it is zero effort. There is a cost/benefit analysis that has to be done. Potential sales numbers have to be created, QA testing, etc. That one skin could take an entire month of developer time and resources, a month that could be spent on a new chapter or other more important things.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931650#Comment_3931650
They don't have to, they are just more outfits for characters people love, just like any other character in the game lol
Did you completely ignore my other comments? lol
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931421#Comment_3931421
Why are you playing devils advocate stating a problem that doesn't exist?
Literally we get licensed cosmetics all the time…Who said I was playing devil's advocate? That is a legitimate consideration. They can allow cosmetics while also not add every cosmetic possible.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931343#Comment_3931343
I know that it's mostly up the license, but I imagine much like they can get outfits for Jill/Leon, they can do so for other characters too, they just need some kind of discount system (make the skins normal price) if you already own the initial legendary, so much work goes into them for the voices/animations not to be used again.
I'm just surprised we've never ever seen another outfit for any of these beloved characters.It's without a doubt an easy thing to do, but money aside, bhvr also has to weigh how much of their game they want to share with other IPs.
At this point, most people consider dbd the fortnite of horror/thriller IP, but dbd originally began as its own game with its own lore and characters. As a company and development team, I can only imagine how restrictive it must feel if all the blood, sweat, and tears being poured into making a unique and fresh experience for players was cast aside to essentially be a theme park for every other company trying to make a quick buck via dlc and cosmetic sales. Not only that, but any innovation has to be "double checked" by the people selling you licenses. You could come up with the greatest, most interactive mechanics for a killer, but if the license holder says "no," well that's that.
All that to say, sure dbd could be a digital storefront for all the old resident evil and silent hill fans trying to cash in on nostalgia, but this game at its core is neither of those games. To even have a dlc crossover should be more than enough, but in my opinion, the people that only come to dbd for a specific license slowly want this game to turn into the game they came for, rather than the game that exists, rather than the original game hardworking people poured their soul into.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
As the title says:
Will it ever be possible to get additional outfits for our favourite Legendaries down the line? I'd love different outfits for Claire (like her og RE2 outfit, not the RE2make classic) etc. Or SH2make Maria etc.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TAO5RZ0QQ3HH/illustration.png
Would this ever be possible?The thing about licensed content is that said content is always limited by the owner of the IP. Even if bhvr coded everything up in game, the IP owner has to approve it (based on the terms of the license contract).
Essentially there is a chance, but don't expect noise on the forums to generate any significant momentum for it to be a thing or not.
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@Vrose29 said:
I'd love other opinions on the 2v8. Ive started playing since last October so I've only had a few iterations of 2v8. Anyways these are my opinions:
- Killer queue is so bad bc there's not enough survivors. As someone who mains survivor, but enjoys killer in this mode especially, it sucks on both ends.
- BP bonus this time isn't all that enticing. It's 200-300%, I've even seen 100%, whereas before it was 400%. This isnt as good as normal queue with streamers, especially when the normal queue is at 150% because full squad is 550%.
- I know last 2v8 people complained about hooks moving too much so unsure if thats part of the issue or not. However, hooks this time rarely move. I have been full on face camped, as have others, and never moved. I have died to this too much. That coupled with tunneling makes it not fun.
- The killer bugs make even being killer an issue, but not as annoying as survivor imo.
I love 2v8 and am trying to enjoy myself. I just keep hearing about killer queues and wanted to share my opinion as a mostly survivor person. Love to hear others takes!
The novelty has long since worn off. Having it in rotation like every 3 months feels like a forced choice because it would absolutely divide the game's playerbase to unplayable levels for both modes if it were permanent (1v4 vs 2v8). That being said, it's a nightmare to even think of balancing changes to make it more fun so it just ends up feeling like a fever dream while it's live.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930674#Comment_3930674
People are definitely acting like it then
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/445740/oni-needs-a-nerf-in-the-next-2v8
Yeah I'm not seeing it.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930635#Comment_3930635
Ohh you can critique away, but everyone acting like it's a new op idea? We're going to call that.
What are you talking about? Oni is easily high A tier, and in a mode where there is essentially infinite blood orbs, it's going to seem a bit overtuned to people. That being said, I don't think anyone is calling this new.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930627#Comment_3930627
Doesn't really stop the fact that with the 2v8 maps being as open as they are, we've yet to see a Oni actually run into walls and be any sort of competent, but again, we don't give a danm anymore. Just seems..odd..to us how people complain about zooming across the map instantly downing people like its a new thing but we knew what to expect.
So just because it isn't new (which is not technically true because he's new to 2v8 in this context), it's immune to criticism or critique?
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930547#Comment_3930547
Ohh that's something we gotta see. We haven't seen any competent onis run straight into walls or spin in multiple circles. Would look hilarious. What we see is them being like Billy, going around objects to get downs as the speed of sound as those sprinting into walls don't tend to get those downs. While he did get a turn buff, we've yet to see anything close to a 360 Oni, let alone a 720.
Count to one. To us it's not that massive, but at this point massive is subjective here.
Must have seen this so often. Each time we've been hit like that we managed to get away. And it's still only on an uncage in the Oni's face.
But ya know what? Sure. We don't particularly give a danm anymore. We see Oni and Billy here in 2v8 as one and the same. If it's just us, ohh well, least we'll be able to handle it.
When cages don't move anymore and killers can freely strategically camp, yeah it's not as rare as you are making it seem.
You haven't seen Onis run into the corners of common loops to build speed and to either continue dashing left or right? Consider me jealous, because those are low to mid mmr Onis. High mmr Onis frequently run into walls and corners to get advantageous angles in loops.
720, while hyperbolic in my example, is definitely possible because there is no hard cap for his turn rate. If your dpi is high enough, it is possible. 360s and 180s are absolutely possible without much change to dpi.
1 second is 4 meters of distance for a survivor. 4 meters is the difference between a hit and a pallet throw. It is the difference between a hit and a window vault. Remember when everyone was crying about release made for this? 3% haste. Do you know how long you have to run to get an extra 4 meters with 3% haste versus base movement speed? 33.33333 seconds. Count to 33 seconds please. That's how much effective value you get with a 1 second quicker Oni charge versus the most cried about survivor perk that ever existed. Just because you don't think 1 second is a lot doesn't change the fact that it means the world for this game.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930521#Comment_3930521
Do you see any competent Oni running into walls?
Do you see oni's doing double circle flicks? (360 is one circle)
True it takes less time, but not by much or any real meaningful difference.
The slam doesn't render endurance useless unless you sit there and let Oni keep bashing you, and we haven't seen a single survivor that was actually playing have that happen. Not have we seen him get those rare multiple downs unless survivors uncaged in front of his face.
Yes and yes.
It is like half a second to a full second faster. That's pretty massive.
Also slam is absolutely useful if you can hit the survivor their first frame after being uncaged and then can flick 180 degrees to hit them while they are trying to run away.
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@Rulebreaker said:
....yet Billy does the exact same thing
Billy can't run into walls for 10 years to get a good angle.
Billy can't 720 flick around corners after his initial dash.
Point blank charge for oni to instadown takes less time than Billy.
Oni's slam repeats and can hit multiple survivors and render endurance useless, Billy can't do that.
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>Looks at post count
>17 posts
How many 0k's in the past 24 hours mister killer man?
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924287#Comment_3924287
Ah, sorry, didn't see your post here!
DS is usable once per round only because in the past, it was abused when it was unlimited - there was no counter except "slug" for Killers, and that wasn't fun, so it changed. Lightborne has a counter - don't use your flashlight, stun another way. They aren't even close to the same problem here. You never need to blind to stun a Killer, and you never need to use a flashlight to win a round. Flashlights are supposed to be optional. Picking up Survivors is not supposed to be optional.
I promise you, I am not running Lightborne out of spite. I'm running it because I am Autistic and thus very sensitive to certain light patterns; the blind mechanic can hurt my eyes if done repeatedly, so I run Lightborne to prevent that. I'm sure I'm not the only person running it for sensory reasons. Other people run it because they simply don't want to deal with a mechanic they find unfun. As Survivor, I throw on stuff like the hatch offerings for much the same reason - I don't want to have to hunt for the hatch, I find that mechanic unfun.
OoO was a bad perk design, having infinite aura on the Killer is not good perk desgn. It would be horrendous enough as Killer, it's still not good as Survivor because comms exist. You're not intended to know where the Killer is at all times; some Killers are even based around not knowing where they might be. Nothing to do with Midwich.
I think you may be an older player who misses the days when Survivor was truly unbalanced and too strong. Times have changed. It's time to adapt now. The Devs are likely not returning the perks to these forms or removing a perk that frankly, is just used as antibully or antinuisance, and eliminates a slot for frustrating perks like Pain Res or Pentimento anyway.
As per editing my posts, I edit them to add things, change typos, or improve clarity so as not to spam the forums with multiple responses. I also edit it to re-write phrases that came off as too harsh, so as not to start further arguments. There's nothing insidious about editing a post to fix it and make it more server-friendly, or add ideas to it!First of all, DS hasn't been "permanent" since patch 2.6.0, which was back in March of 2019. It has had a cooldown ever since, and has been getting nerfed since then too.
Secondly, you just flat out ignored my comment on the context around blinds and doing things that aren't gens or hooks. You flashlight save someone to keep them in the game because the goal for the survivors is to escape. Going for a flashlight blind to save someone is helping the team achieve their goal of escaping. I can't spell it out any more clearly than that. Just because picking someone up "isn't optional," doesn't mean you should be able to do it for free, especially when there is an entire mechanic designed to punish killers who are on autopilot and not paying attention to the match. It's like you said, they fixed the flashlight and flashbang hitboxes, so if you are getting flashlight blinded as a killer, it is 100% a skill issue on your part at this point. Doing generators "isn't optional" for survivors, yet if I were to say that there should be a perk that ignored gen regression and slowdown for survivors who don't want to interact with those mechanics, I would get downvoted into oblivion, yet this is the same sentiment your argument has for lightborn.
Thirdly, accessibility options should always be tied to in game settings rather than being an afterthought in perks. R6 Siege added an option where their flashbangs flash to a black screen rather than a white screen. DbD should have a similar setting implemented to help those with varying sensory needs.
I wasn't saying whether or not OoO was good or bad perk design, I just stated how it was and the reason it was changed. It was changed because you could permanently run the killer (if they didn't have movement abilities) around Midwich and they would never be able to catch you. After the community began to abuse that, it was changed. Those are the facts. It was a lukewarm perk that was able to break a specific map, thus it was changed.
I think you may be an older player
I don't see how this is relevant at all. You are attempting to discredit my stance and my opinions because I've been playing the game for longer. That is called ad hominem. If you're going to throw shade, please do so at my arguments and not me as a person. I get iri 1 on survivor every month and iri 1 on killer when I feel like playing killer. I know how to adapt to this game. But again you are ignoring what I said. It's a question about the why and not the what. WHY is lightborn the way it is because on paper, it is not a fair perk for both sides. Just because you don't run the perk out of spite, doesn't mean everyone else isn't.
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@ezikagirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924280#Comment_3924280
If you want talk about balance, there are better things to complain about lol
Keep moving those goalposts!
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924233#Comment_3924233
It's simply a perk used for anti frustration now, like how DS is. No perk would be designed like DS is nowadays either, but back in old ancient DBD times when there was more instant stuff? Yes it was needed. It has now been repurposed into anti-tunnel that can be strong, but is fair. Lightborne's in a similar boat, I think.
Reminder, the Original OoO was free aura all round for the Obsession too. Devs would NEVER design a perk that way either these days.The difference is DS can only be used once, is only designed for anti tunnel, deactivates if you do literally anything to progress the game, can be stalled out via slugging, and deactivates in endgame. Lightborn is permanent, prevents an entire mechanic, and is run solely out of spite.
OoO was only changed because of Midwich. I guarantee if we never got that map, it would still be the way it used to be. You're also forgetting that the killer saw the OoO aura as well... another risk/reward perk.
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@ezikagirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923984#Comment_3923984
High mmr killer.. complaining about lightborn.. big oofs
Again, you are ignoring what I said. What does being high mmr have to do with my ability to discuss how fundamentally unfair the perk is? Leave it to "not a killer main" killer mains to completely ignore overall game balance for both sides...
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@ezikagirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917093#Comment_3917093
i mean, am not a killer main or a survivor main but rather play based on how i feel and whether or not my friends want to play with me. but, from the way you speak. you seem to play one role and it's survivor and nothing else so it is pretty hard to have balance takes around someone who plays only one role. Idk how many hours you have. but i get it if your new and start to dislike some things that are not that big of a deal. it is pretty common.
lightborn just makes survivors play optimally, which is doing gens. it can be boring to not be able to use your flashlights. but it shouldn't ruin your entire day. lightborn doesn't regress gens or take away resources which is pallets or windows. lightborn just means 1 less slowdown or chase perk.
try playing killer, or at least both roles equally. get in high mmr. or else your takes will be biased.
I am high mmr in both killer and survivor, and I get iri 1 in both roles as well. Just because I'm advocating for survivor doesn't mean I've never played killer, nor does it mean I don't know what I'm talking about.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920781#Comment_3920781
I'm sorry but where in the game does it say your goal is to go for blinds, not do gens, not escape, not try to outrun the Killer? Nobody owes you letting you play your specific way, especially if it's a way that is really annoying and has no way to avoid it in certain situations. This is true of tunnelling, true of aura read, true of all stuns… and true of blinds. Heck, it's true of basically all game mechanics!
Saying "wrong, it's not niche" when I just pointed out several times how it is, in fact, niche, does not make a point. It just makes you look like you want to argue. It's also incorrect and demonstrably so as I and everyone else here have pointed out since you don't NEED to blind the Killer to win. It is absolutely super niche to build around going for blinds, I don't know anyone including myself who uses perks like Champion of Light or Blast Mine if I'm not going for a blind challenge or achievement. None of those perks are meta, why use them at all? Blinding itself is just a form of stunning (which is an actual mechanic), and not a particularly subtle or useful one (high risk mid reward), and not one that really is required. Blinding is therefore optional, you opt into doing them, they are a thing you can do in the game. You can always stun a Killer, but you need to bring a blind perk or flashlight or firecracker or something to blind the Killer. You are never forced to do them, it's optional, it's an optional form of the stun mechanic and an optional way to play the game that like hex builds, really is not that effective. That makes it niche by definition, so saying it's not because YOU like doing them and playing that way is quite simply incorrect.There are, speaking as someone who JUST spent a year and a half playing almost exclusively Survivor recently, often in SWF, far far far more fun and interesting and useful ways to stun the Killer and prevent hooks than a flashlight, flashbang, or Blast Mine. In fact it's way more tactical and fun and skilled, IMHO, to do something like set up a pallet stun, or find a way to trap the God Pallet with Chemical Trap, or somehow manage a Breakout-Boil Over-Sabo play, than it is to run in with a flashlight or Flashbang especially when the blind hitboxes recently got fixed from being glitched.
Learn new ways to play. I had to do it when Distortion was changed. I had to do it when Circle of Healing and medkits were changed. I had to do it when MFT+Hope were changed and FTP+Buckle Up were changed. You can also do it too, friend, I believe you are skilled enough. :) You can even do it mid round because Lightborne is that much of a non-issue! If flashlights don't work, simply go for pallet stuns or play for chases or generators. If points are what you want, go cleanse bones, you don't need a hex or boon in play to cleanse bones. If you are that bored of these things, maybe it's time to consider switching roles to Killer or playing something else. If your whole build keeps being negated by Lightborne, maybe it's tme for a new build. Improvise, adapt, do new things when old things don't work, that keeps the game fresh. How many times do you really need to win or play one style to have fun in the game anymore after thousands of hours? I mean really? It's the whole reason I and many others don't even try for winstreaks anymore, we just play the game and see how we do.
You and all of the others here angry that a niche mechanic can be countered may downvote all you like, but it doesn't make me or anyone else saying what I am saying any less correct. It doesn't make it any less niche and BHVR is not going to adjust one perk just to cater to you. Just like I as Killer should not expect my hexes to not get cleansed should I build around them, I as Survivor never expect the Killer to not bring Lightborne if I and my SWF bring and build around many flashlights. Yes sometimes those strategies yield big rewards, but both are too inconsistent enough to be used constantly. So it's really better to just build around something else. Something less annoying.First of all, you edited your previous post, so I don't know how much of your original argument you changed.
Nowhere does it say in the killer's win condition does it say that their goal is don't hook survivors, slug them on the ground, hold 3 gens; yet this is what killers do. Why? Because it helps the killers achieve their goal. At the end of the day, a survivor's goal is to escape with as many of their team as possible. Flashlight saving a teammate is literally saving a teammate from a potential elimination. I really hope we are on the same page as something as basic as that.
Lightborne is fair and balanced.
It's fair because it only counters a niche style of stun that isn't that common but IS often used to be a nuisance to others… kinda like being tunnelled is so you throw on Off The Record to help with it or even stop it entirely.
It's balanced because the only thing it halts is a niche interaction that the Survivor never HAS to do to win the game, sorta like how hex perks and boons can be powerful but are still niche as they require investment and time (Boons) or can be forever lost (Hexes).
^ This was your "several times" explaining how it's niche in your response to my comment. I don't see you explain how it's niche here, other than you addressing an ambiguous situation that you deem niche from your own personal experience. Your point about "no of the perks being meta" is such an odd point to make, and your erroneous point about flashlight blinds just "being another stun" is wrong, because you are lacking the context around them. Pallet stunning the killer in chase versus saving a hook state on a teammate are two VASTLY different things. Also, if you love playing the most up-to-date meta, good for you, but just because something isn't meta, doesn't mean it's "niche."
You are never forced to do them, it's optional, it's an optional form of the stun mechanic and an optional way to play the game that like hex builds, really is not that effective. That makes it niche by definition, so saying it's not because YOU like doing them and playing that way is quite simply incorrect.
Your definition of niche is just wrong. The word you are looking for is playstyle. Niche implies a small number of people in relation to the total playerbase. I see at least 1 flashlight per lobby. 25% minimum of the playerbase is hardly "niche."
Learn new ways to play. I had to do it when Distortion was changed. I had to do it when Circle of Healing and medkits were changed. I had to do it when MFT+Hope were changed and FTP+Buckle Up were changed. You can also do it too, friend, I believe you are skilled enough. :) You can even do it mid round because Lightborne is that much of a non-issue! If flashlights don't work, simply go for pallet stuns or play for chases or generators. If points are what you want, go cleanse bones, you don't need a hex or boon in play to cleanse bones. If you are that bored of these things, maybe it's time to consider switching roles to Killer or playing something else. If your whole build keeps being negated by Lightborne, maybe it's tme for a new build. Improvise, adapt, do new things when old things don't work, that keeps the game fresh. How many times do you really need to win or play one style to have fun in the game anymore after thousands of hours? I mean really? It's the whole reason I and many others don't even try for winstreaks anymore, we just play the game and see how we do.
This is a non-point and also completely dismissive. You are talking about the most meta builds of meta builds that have ever had the chance of existing in this game. Of course they are going to get nerfed. I'm talking about the ability to use one of the 6 SURVIVOR ITEMS (3 if you aren't counting firecrackers, maps (useless), keys (useless)). Most survivors only bring a medkit, a toolbox, or a flashlight. You are talking about perk combinations. I'm talking about core basic item usage. "Learn new ways to play" is completely besides the point of the discussion. At a certain point you have to ask "are these perks/changes healthy and fair to both sides?" That's the point of my comment, not some commentary on "well I guess I'm just not adapting enough 🙄"
You and all of the others here angry that a niche mechanic can be countered may downvote all you like, but it doesn't make me or anyone else saying what I am saying any less correct.
Opinions can never be correct or incorrect, they are simply just opinions. If you ignore everything else from this post, at least remember that…
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917318#Comment_3917318
Lightborne is fair and balanced.
It's fair because it only counters a niche style of stun that isn't that common but IS often used to be a nuisance to others… kinda like being tunnelled is so you throw on Off The Record to help with it or even stop it entirely.
It's balanced because the only thing it halts is a niche interaction that the Survivor never HAS to do to win the game, sorta like how hex perks and boons can be powerful but are still niche as they require investment and time (Boons) or can be forever lost (Hexes).@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917318#Comment_3917318
Lightborne is fair and balanced.
It's fair because it only counters a niche style of stun that isn't that common but IS often used to be a nuisance to others… kinda like being tunnelled is so you throw on Off The Record to help with it or even stop it entirely.
It's balanced because the only thing it halts is a niche interaction that the Survivor never HAS to do to win the game, sorta like how hex perks and boons can be powerful but are still niche as they require investment and time (Boons) or can be forever lost (Hexes).@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917318#Comment_3917318
Lightborne is fair and balanced.
It's fair because it only counters a niche style of stun that isn't that common but IS often used to be a nuisance to others… kinda like being tunnelled is so you throw on Off The Record to help with it or even stop it entirely.
It's balanced because the only thing it halts is a niche interaction that the Survivor never HAS to do to win the game, sorta like how hex perks and boons can be powerful but are still niche as they require investment and time (Boons) or can be forever lost (Hexes).Wrong, it's not niche.
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@Memesis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916918#Comment_3916918
The game is not balanced around survivors preventing hook states. Flash saves, sabo and body blocks are high rish high reward, and rare.
Likewise for hex perks. They are perks that have overpowered abilities countered by the fact that the survivors can break them. They are high risk high reward, yet just earlier in this thread people were claiming the opposite sentiment, that they are a core part of the game and how much of a tragedy it is if the risk doesn't pay off.
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@justadreampallet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917625#Comment_3917625
if you don’t want lobby dodging then please rephrase what you said. I took you saying killers choose to go into a match with flashlights. I took that as meaning instead of lightborn we should just dodge the flashys. And you're using False equivalence. Flashlights not blinding are no where near not taking damage or Hex totems not working at all. And you want to hear a fun fact that is Basekit: cleansing the totem. You can just cleanse the totem. You can remove totems without any perks. Also in what world is removing damage a logical an equivalent for your flashlight not working.
If one survivor is doing gens like you claim then Lightborn has NOTHING to do with that. That is the fault of the Survivors for not doing the Objective they need to do. Why should it be the killers fault that the people that randomly got assigned to your team don’t want to do gens? Survivors should chill out on gens instead of having half the team trail a chase. A survivors play style isn’t the fault of the killer so should not be used in terms of balence. Most survivors don’t linger for the save unless they are a SWF who built their team Around one person doing gens and the rest do saves or are trying to Clip farm.
your response was filled with Fallacy's and false equivalences.My words are what they were: killers have the ability to change their loadout in the pregame lobby. If they are insecure about their skills, they can adjust their loadout if they see flashlights. That is unfair. One side shouldn't be able to lobby shop if the other side can't. Nobody should be able to adjust their builds based on what they see before the match starts if the other side can't. It is just outright unfair by definition.
Your second paragraph is a strawman and inconsistent to your previous claims. You claim that most people that bring flashlights are "bully squads" aka SWFs, yet here you claim these are people who are solo queueing (which was not an assertion of my previous comment). So which is it? I never said survivors not doing objectives is the killer's fault. However, there is a reason that flashlight saves have value, they are a lateral move to prolong the game so other survivors can do generators. That means flashlights have value to the state of the match. To claim that lightborn "has no value" and "is only for bully squads" is just simply not true by the examples you keep providing. Either it has no value or it does, so please pick one for the sake of your argument being consistent.
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@justadreampallet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917093#Comment_3917093
so you want the killer to lobby dodge every match with a flashlight now? Of course the killer is going to pick up a match with a flashlight when they had to wait forever to get into a match. I’m not going to wait another couple minutes cause I don’t want to deal with a flashlight. If I’m that worried I’ll use Lightborn. That’s why it exists.
of course the killer perks are 4x stronger they have 4x less perks. One perk is equivalent to an entire survivor. I’m not saying “make lightborn a 5th perk slot” I’m perfectly happy with it taking 1/4 of my build so I don’t have to worry about chainblinds or the wanna be streamer.
the longest a safe will take is like 20 seconds. That not even close to 7.5 minutes. And if one survivor is the only one doing gens that isn’t lightborns fault it’s the other survivors. Why are you complaining that your teammates are going to work on gens? id rather play the game then have “flashy_G0d_TTV” trying to follow me all game to get their 2 saves so they can post their “killer rages after my insane play”. If the survivors play the game and do gens then I’m happy cause we are playing the game I payed $35 for along with the Nintendo Online pass. Them doing the objective isn’t a problem.
They aren’t a big deal so it doesn’t matter that a 1/4 of a killers build is stopping them. Keeping 1 or 2 hook states is worth that one perk. The way it is rn is fair cause the survivors loose an item and the killer loses a perk
I don't want anyone to lobby dodge, so please stop putting words in my mouth. I was pointing out that it is unfair for a killer to be able to tailor their build depending on what items survivors are brining, but the survivors do not have that luxury. If you can't handle flashlights, that's a you problem. Could you imagine if there was a survivor perk that ignored all totem effects? How about a perk that prevented you from taking damage? How about a perk that ignored all debuffs, including exposed? All because a survivor "didn't like" those mechanics?
I will reiterate: just because you dislike the mechanic doesn't mean you should have the ability to outright ignore it. If a killer cannot handle flashlights, that is honestly just a skill issue, I'm sorry. You can flat out stare at a wall and be protected from a flashlight, and now that they've fixed the flashbang bug, there is nothing you can do as a survivor if the killer can face a wall during a pick up. Flashlights already require the killer to be in a location where they can't shove their camera into the wall, which is honestly very rare nowadays. The stars essentially have to align to even have a chance to get a flashlight blind, and part of that is the killer making a major mistake by not checking 360 degrees for 2 seconds to see if anyone is around.
of course the killer perks are 4x stronger they have 4x less perks
Yes… that's why I said that… My point was that because killer perks are 4x stronger, they have 4x the impact when they go into effect. One proc of pain res or corrupt or grim embrace or pop can completely counter a survivor's gen rush build with 4 perks. So what if ONE of your slots goes to lightborn if you have 3 other slots that can most definitely carry you to victory? A lot of people run lethal pursuer with no other aura read. They only have 3 perks after the match starts and guess what? They can win games. Most maps are small enough that a killer can find a survivor easily without lethal if they know the spawn logic, so running lethal really is only saving them 5 seconds of time max. The fact that you have to "waste" a perk slot on lightborn when you get value out of it and most likely don't need a 4th slowdown perk because your other perks are good enough was the point I made.
the longest a safe will take is like 20 seconds.
… Okay let's do the math together. 1 survivor being chased (not doing gens), 2 survivors hovering for save (they are not doing gens), 1 person doing gens. Gens take 90 seconds. There are 5 gens. 5 gens times 90 seconds for one person is……….. 450 seconds. Divide that by 60 seconds to get minutes….. 7.5 minutes! And that's not including the time it takes for that one survivor to make it between gens, so it is actually more like 8.5 to 9 minutes total. Point being: if the survivors are doing ANYTHING but generators, that is more slowdown than you could ever get through perks. I was not complaining that my other survivors were going to do gens, I was saying that if you have 2 people going for flashlight saves and they see lightborn, they will pivot and do gens instead, and the killer loses their inherent slowdown because the survivors went from flashlight saves back to gens…
They aren’t a big deal so it doesn’t matter that a 1/4 of a killers build is stopping them. Keeping 1 or 2 hook states is worth that one perk. The way it is rn is fair cause the survivors loose an item and the killer loses a perk
I don't have any idea what you were trying to say here, I'm not able to follow these sentences.
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@H2H said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917262#Comment_3917262
I think that if I bring a perk or item to the trial, I should be able to use it. Its effectiveness should range from 100% but never 0%.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CAHVOU7XQ0Y1/img-4284.jpeg
If this is supposed to be a gotcha towards me, I've never said anything about totems. I'd personally want the killers to be able to light totems at the beginning of the match so they can choose how to defend them or have better spawn logic so it's more fair for killers.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917295#Comment_3917295
No, you were just making up arguments about why killers shouldn't use Lightborn, blabbering about what's "optimal" or "competitive" in some elaborate attempt to convince killers to stop using the perk you don't like. And when called out that these arguments mean nothing because killers use Lightborn for personal convenience and not for any hardcore competitive advantage, you shifted the goalposts yourself to Distortion and aura-reading when it was originally about Lightborn and flashlights (i.e. whataboutism), and making false equivalences and hyperbolic suggestions that mean nothing.
If anything isn't good for discussions, it's derailing them with irrelevant nonsense that has nothing to do with the original point.
I'm talking about balance and fairness. Just because you think killers only run lightborn for "convenience" doesn't make it true for everyone. Lightborn is an amazing perk for what it does, and can win you games when you know the opposing team is running flashlights. To claim otherwise is simply just wrong.
Considering you didn't understand my original points and have no intention to, I'm not going to engage in this one sided conversation. Feel free to move the goalposts elsewhere.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917257#Comment_3917257
Yes, talking about one killer perk that negates a niche mechanic and then bringing up a completely unrelated survivor perk that negates a different and more significant mechanic is whataboutism. These things have nothing to do with each other, it's not a real argument so I don't care.
You moving the goalposts on the topic of my comment to frame it how you want isn't good for the discussion.
I have been talking about perk balance and how much power one perk should give. Responding to my comment means you'd be working with the same topic as I am.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917181#Comment_3917181
I am not a big fan of how aura reading has proliferated and how aura reading dependent many killers have become, but my answer would be twofold:
- Aura reading is actually powerful and often integral to a build, while flashlights are weak and easily countered
- Nothing really approximates aura reading, but flashlight saves are actually really easy to avoid
But regardless, I don't/wouldn't have a huge problem with either Lightborn or a permanent Distortion because if someone's entire strategy revolves around one thing (blinding or aura reading or anything else), that's a them problem. Putting all your eggs in one basket is never a smart thing to do, and always carries massive risk.
I don't believe "guaranteed value" should be a thing. Someone's whole build is dedicated to aura reading or flashlight plays and that gets negated by a perk? That's a them problem. Being able to adapt and win when your primary option is taken from you is perhaps the biggest indicator of actual skill.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but I want to expand on the idea of "guaranteed value" as well. I think that if I bring a perk or item to the trial, I should be able to use it. Its effectiveness should range from 100% but never 0%. Killers used to bemoan old distortion because "it was infinite." It wasn't infinite. Tokens take time to recharge, and if the killer had enough aura read, the tokens would be used up fairly quickly (usually lethal + one other aura read did the trick). I say that because there were ways to get your aura read to work, but you had to work for it.
With lightborn: flashbang, flashlights, and blast mine are all rendered useless. The killer has gotten guaranteed value from the perk, and in turn, the survivors effectively have 0% value for those perks and items.
I agree that players should be able to adapt. I like @100PercentBPMain's comment about forced hesitation. I do find the perk annoying, but I also find it fair. I still have a chance to get a flashlight or pallet save. It's not completely removing my ability to interact with those mechanics, it only makes them harder and it requires an in-the-moment adaptation to gameplay. Lightborn on the other had just outright removes the blind mechanic and rewards the killer with aura read.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917181#Comment_3917181
if lightborn is okay, then why isn't distortion that is permanent okay?
Whataboutism. Don't care.
Also calling LIghtborn a crutch. lol
So bringing up a perk in a discussion about perk balance is whataboutism?
🤣
How else would you call a perk that is only brought because someone doesn't want to deal with a mechanic? Training wheels? Hand holding? Entitlement?
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917181#Comment_3917181
if lightborn is okay, then why isn't distortion that is permanent okay? What if I find aura reading annoying?
The killer seeing a survivor's aura doesn't turn the survivor's entire screen all funky, for one thing. The blind is very unpleasant on my eyes. Physically unpleasant. (And as survivor, I can't stand the troll teammates I get who blind me; accident or no, if you blind me, I'm not your teammate).
Being blinded brings a stop to the killer's interactions with a survivor. If the killer is on console, it's very likely they'll completely lose the survivor(s) (especially on Switch… thanks frame drops, low fps, and scratch marks that often forget to appear). It's so frustrating on Switch that I and Switch killers I've faced as survivor have just said "there's nothing fun about this" and gone AFK after being blinded. Without Lightborn equipped, even without being in animation lock, trying to avoid being blinded can be really difficult with the input lag, poor sensitivity, low fps, and server lag. M&K users can be very precise with their aim while analog sticks are clumsy (and probably very slow if you have low fps, because turning the sensitivity up makes the camera seem to swing wildly out of control, especially with no dead zone or response curve settings). Lightborn is a band-aid for console optimization issues that the devs either can't or won't fix.
Meanwhile, the killer seeing a survivor's aura may possibly lead to the survivor having to interact with the killer. As survivor, the console issues don't get in the way of hiding in a locker or using some mind game to keep the killer from finding me, so there's no perk I need to use as a band-aid.
So the survivor gaming experience is tied to someone either a) not liking the blinding effect or b) someone else's choice buying a switch, a console released over 8 years ago which was already one whole console generation behind the current consoles released in 2013, to play a game that already has performance issues on a 3090 gpu on PC?
I don't take "performance issues" as a relevant excuse for keeping lightborn as is. If the console can't handle the game, it probably shouldn't have been ported to that console in my opinion.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917093#Comment_3917093
No one who runs Lightborn cares about playing optimally. They just want the annoying blinds to stop. You and every other angry survivor can argue until you're blue in the face about how Lightborn is a "bad perk" that no one should use but no one who uses it actually cares. It is a convenience perk and little more.
Welcome to the thread! If you read what I've written, then you'd be able to answer this: if lightborn is okay, then why isn't distortion that is permanent okay? What if I find aura reading annoying? Killers can still hook without aura reads. You can argue until you're blue in the face about how aura read is "useless" but it's more for convenience and a little more.
If killers want "annoying" things to stop, then I'll defer to my previous comment about how some killers mains want to load in and auto-win a match. Everything an opposing human player can do to prevent you from winning can be seen as annoying. At a certain point, you have to tolerate mechanics you don't like instead of outright wanting a crutch to fully ignore them.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917019#Comment_3917019
Killers whine about body blocking, pallets and so called second chance perks too so it doesn't matter and what other tools?
Killer mains and their dream dbd balance: no tiles, pallets, or windows. If the killer looks at a survivor, the survivor gets mori'd on the spot. After the match is over, they are instantly put at iri 1, and are awarded 5 million bloodpoints every time.
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@justadreampallet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916918#Comment_3916918
flashlights are in no way a main part. They are a tool that you can take. Flashlights take away more killer agency then lightborn takes away survivor agency. Survivors still have Pallets, body blocks, second chances, and other tools that are actually parts of the main game. Lightborn is a perk that takes up 1/4 of a killers perk slots that counters a survivors item.
Lightborn is the counter to flashy squads and that’s about it. If you get blinded once or twice no one cares. It is a non problem to complain about. If lightborn is ruining your games then it might not be lightborns fault. Most of the people who complain about lightborn have their games ruined because they did not focus on the objective and followed the killer to get the save.
lightborn doesn’t remove the way for the survivors to win. If it removed one generator from the match then that would be removing the goalie. Flashlights aren’t super important for winning. You can still get the 5 gens done and open the doors. It isn’t an anti win perk.The killer chose to pick up with a flashlight in play, it's a skill issue if they didn't make sure the coast was clear…
I'm not going to argue semantics over an analogy that you appear to have a bias in downplaying. Many people consider flashlights a main part of the game. Are they all wrong because you said so?
Did you know that killer perks on average are 4 times stronger than survivor perks and have way more sway on the state of the match? I'm sorry you have to dedicate one perk slot, which you can see whether or not you have to based on the pregame lobby if there's a flashlight or not, to lightborn + 3 other slowdown perks vs running all 4 slowdown.
Killers also fail to realize that even one survivor off a generator going for flashlight saves is magnitudes more slowdown than any 4 slowdown build. If I see 2 people going for saves, I know I've won the match because it will take that other survivor who isn't at least 7.5 minutes to do all 5 generators alone. The flashlight survivors only need to make 1 mistake for the game to be over. Lightborn actually hurts the killer here because after seeing it in play, the other survivors won't bother and start gen rushing. Which would you prefer?
Also, if flashlights aren't that big of a deal like you claim, then why all the fuss about lightborn staying as it is?
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@H2H said:
The complaints that Lightborn is boring or removes survivor agency are hilarious, because I guess getting blinded when animation locked is the height of excitement and agency for killer players?
Just like getting auto-aimed by a ghoul, or zoned by knight, houndmaster, blight, wesker, huntress, etc, or having 0 escapes from blight, nurse, ghoul is the height of excitement for survivors right?
Flashlights have limited use and can be completely countered by proper zoning and checking, even with background player in play. Most killer abilities are unlimited.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916867#Comment_3916867
Specially when they hell bent on tunneling someone who's bad at looping. I remember a match at end game the other 2 survivors left and it was ghosty chasing an injure Lara on death hook, she got down a little before she can make the gate,
I had a flashlight I found in trial and was like I got this save since she was down in a good position. I hear whoosh aka distortion proc and she died. Like stuff like that is frustrating yet killers talk about survivors being selfish not working together( solo q) yet complains when swf does do as team.
It's selfish when nobody saves the survivor getting camped by them and they get gen rushed in 2 minutes, but the second survivors try to be altruistic in ways the killer doesn't want, it's a 4 man swf and they're "bullying" them... by just playing the game for their objective.
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@justadreampallet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916867#Comment_3916867
What seems ridiculous is your analogy. Light born doesn't remove a key part of the game it removes an additional part that someone chose to use. It would be like removing a specific kick that someone uses.
Light born is used mostly as an Anti-Flashlight squad perk. Very few people keep it in their builds. I use it only when I see 2+ flashlights or the team Comp looks suspicious. Even then I normally only prevent like 2 saves. Most matches do not include a flashlight saves. I
Removing the ability for the survivors to defend against the killer scoring (hooking) is identical to my soccer analogy about removing the main player who prevents the other team from scoring points.
Flashlight saves are a part of the game. A killer should not be able to slap on one perk and ignore the mechanic because they feel unsure about their ability to play competitively with flashlights in play.
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@WolfyWood said:
It's a boring perk that encourages more time sitting on gens before the person getting tunneled dies.
I'm not sure why anyone should ever enjoy going against it. It doesn't change interactions it just removes them.
Killer mains take flashlights so personally, when they forget nobody can see the killer before the match begins, so it literally has nothing to do with them.
You're absolutely right in that people want to do more than just sit on gens the entire game. Flashlight saves are the last thing survivors have any sort of agency in, and this perk just outright removes it.
Could you imagine if in soccer your keeper had to stay off the field for the entire match because the opposing team told the head ref that they "don't like the mechanic and don't want to get bullied by the opposing team."
Seems pretty ridiculous right?
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@yousef0930 said:
Personally, no mither is my main perk and I love it , the only problem is. When you use this perk. You automatically become killer free target ,
I was thinking about idea of a rework which I think it's fair and can be more useful
The idea: whenever you become injured/ take damage by killer by any means. You receive broken status for 90 seconds
Whenever you are effected by broken status:
You don't leave pools of blood
Grunts of pain caused by injuries are reduced by 75% at anytime
Your recovery speed is increased by 25% and you can completely recover from dying state
These effects last as long as you are effected by broken status
Wonder what you guys think about this
No mither doesn't need drastic changes, I truly believe so. I use it in the majority of my games, I'm not joking. While these changes would be nice, people could see it being way too much for one perk. Keep the perk as is except make the base recovery speed 40 or 50% and grunts of pain suppressed by either 90% or 100%.
No mither is a perk best used with a premade group. Having the killer in a position where they have to choose to either pick you up immediately or push pressure elsewhere and lose the down is what makes this perk special in this stale meta.
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@CLHL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910563#Comment_3910563
So instead of saying “yes, it should stay for you guys” he simply gets a dozen down votes. I, as a keyboard and mouse player, want it gone because as I stated I think it hurts my performance, but I know there are players out there for whom this help exists.
I don't know what you're trying to say here. If people disagree with their comment, they have the ability to disagree by down voting the post.
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@CLHL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909090#Comment_3909090
Good luck finding sympathy for console gamers. You're not going to find it here even if you're absolutely right. They tried to revert the autoaim for The Singularity and luckily for you they didn't succeed.
Once the autoaim is removed it will actually be a buff for mouse players. There are countless times you unintentionally hit a wounded survivor in chase, with strict aiming the mouse players will become even better. What nobody seems to understand is that it's a hitscan attack but The Ghoul has to move in order to perform the bite anyway. You may have been “shot” in a corner but you get the hit once you are already behind a wall. Add some ping to the formula and you have these fake hits.
There is plenty of sympathy for console gamers, even on the forums. The problem arises when console players want the entire game to change for them, despite the massive repercussions those changes would have for everybody else.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910466#Comment_3910466
Do you speak for other people? I suggest you don't because that usually is wrong and doesn't end well.
I'm not speaking for anyone else but myself. I'm giving you an objective fact. Wants vs needs is something everyone learns very early in life. I also was merely giving you a suggestion on how to improve your game experience.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910115#Comment_3910115
Doesn't change the fact that some people need aim assist on console and developers provide that. Whenever you like it's existence or refuse to use it is up to you. It can be your own personal preference.
Nobody NEEDS aim assist. Aim assist isn't water or food or shelter. I still strongly suggest that you take a look at your joystick sensitivity and practice with it once you find a setting that is comfortable for you. You'll find your need for aim assist goes away very quickly.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909109#Comment_3909109
PS4, PS5, XBox Consoles, Switch, Steam Deck and other Portable Consoles. Plenty of variations here, not to mention the screen size.
There's the reason why consoles have aim assist and other things that make gameplay of certain games more manageable. Ghoul is the killer that requires lots of dashing so combining that with aiming might be a little too much in some cases.
Just because you can physically pick up an Xbox and move it does not make it portable. By that logic, my PC is portable.
There are many games that do not feature aim assist for console players, and console players do just fine in them.
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@Green_Sliche said:
For people who complain that his grab is so generous - try playing him with controller or on handheld. You'll stop using his M2 entirely because dashing, then turning a screen and landing an aim feels almost impossible. Add a fatigue that Ghoul has when canceling ability and you'll have an unbearably painful experience on anything but PC.
It's that case where ''crutch'' is pretty much needed due to how things work in the game. The only adjustment that could be added is better heigh detection. Anything else will render this killer horrible to play on non KBM.
On handheld? No no no, you have your hand held PLAYING the ghoul.
In all seriousness, there's no handheld version of this game anymore. I assume you're talking about switch, but you use controllers to play that game. My friend who plays this game exclusively on controller has no problems with the ghoul's power. I think this might be a controller sensitivity issue.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
Hey autoaim is nice for us playing on console, you know, the majority of the playerbase. It's great to have a strong killer that plays well on console
- Where has it been said that console is the majority of the playerbase?
- Even if that's the case, do you then just ignore everyone on PC's feedback, even though their experiences are just as valid?
- The majority of the playerbase are survivor players (you need 4 of them for every 1 killer). According to your logic, the game should be centered around them and not killer players.
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@LordHeXaGoN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904257#Comment_3904257
Im not blind im just trying to figure out why do people hate him. He just released. And need more time. Not just one day.
I thought it would be like this after ptb i make the post there describe my concerns, most people dislike my opinion that he dosent fits like this, but they didnt listen, said i dont undrstand ect ect. I knew it was going to be like with legion or even worse. /
He works as intended and mb we get some tweaks after a week or two.
So lets make the post, DISABLE THE GHOUL, cuz he is non functional, broken thing? (fix him faster plz?) *sarcasm*
- But the "non functional, broken thing" benefits them in this case, so it gets blindly defended.
The issue with this logic is that he was live on the ptb for 2 weeks, followed by a 3 week brainstorming period for both sides. In almost every account, he was buffed from PTB to live. Survivor players have had that long to find counters, and honestly, there isn't much, if anything at all... especially when this killer gets to dance around in the forever buggy physics engine of this antiquated game.
People hate loading into the DLC day 1, and going up against a killer player who is already using 10 movement "techs" to get easy downs. The first 5 ghoul players I faced yesterday were already doing the shack and slide cancel "techs," all within the first 2 hours of the DLC going live.
This killer also suffers from the nurse/blight strawman. Lower MMR players can spin new nurse players, and all of a sudden nurse "isn't a problem and is completely counterable." But everyone knows that if you're going up against a nurse player who knows what they are doing, they are leaving that match with at least a 3k, 4k if they care to slug for the 4th. Low MMR players are going to make this killer look like pig with no perks, but good ghoul players make this killer on par with killers that simply have little to no counterplay like blight or spirit.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
I don't think it's a bug, with Wesker you also take damage if you get too close.
You aren't understanding the nature of the bug.
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@Jspect said:
This is not a bug, it was stated in the patch notes
Where in the patch notes? I'm not seeing it.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886247#Comment_3886247
I said my suggestion for surrender was what I wrote about gens completed compared to survivors sacrificed.
The reason survivors would often go next is because there was no way to surrender an already lost match and save some time. With the addition of the surrender option, this pain point is alleviated.
You are referring to this correct?
We have pointed out that the pain point isnt alleviated if you only add the surrender option if only 1-2 wants to give up. And add on, many survivors see "a lost match" when they go down in 30 seconds, see a killer they dont like, and so on. They either get to leave via surrender which gives the remaining players a bot which then probably cascades to the rest surrendering (especially considering the backlash bots got in 2v8), or they don't get to leave via surrender and try to get the killer to kill them/hook swings as they currently do.
You might not trust the devs on making these but we are willing to wait and see what they do with these systems before any harsh judgement.
We simply typed a solution we thought would be enough and our opinions with reasons why we think both should be implemented at the same time. Like Brimp above said, its better iron out the kinks sooner rather than later. Your making it sound to us like it will be dooms day if its implemented at the same time when we don't even know how its going to work. To us, it really sounds like shark jumping. For example:
It is impossible to have a programmed system correctly identify these three points described without making wrong judgements. If ONE player is penalized for something they didn't do, the system is a failure, end of story. This system should be a last resort.
If that offends you we're sorry, but its how we see it.
I already explained this like 3 different times. I'm not going to explain it a 4th. If you want to trust the devs that released release skull merchant, release legion, release houndmaster, proposed the twins ptb changes, have not nerfed blight or nurse; while having full faith they will not mess up such a critical system as this, be my guest.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886182#Comment_3886182
….your really going to tell us that leaving a game to deal with an emergency isn't common sense? We also never said its all encapsulating. Our suggestion simply solved those immediate concerns that were reasonable to the points given. And given that so far the devs have been fairly reasonable when implementing things like this (the anti 3 gens, anti face camp) we're willing to give a chance to see what they're planning before throwing ourselves to paranoia.
And if a survivor is allowed to surrender theres 3 survivors left with a bot at best and at worst all being forced to surrender or risk the 1 trying to "go next" at worst. From what we saw the surrender is only for 4 man slugs/ 4 man bots.
It is jumping the shark because you dont know what theyre going to do as well do you? If you know for certain what the plans are, share them. Your calling doom when no one knows anything. You asked us, and we quote: "Would you be for this automated system still if hypothetically it decided randomly that you were going to be falsely flagged for "go-next" behavior?". It would not be "wrongful" if we know what the cause is.
Are you not reading what I'm writing? I said my suggestion for surrender was what I wrote about gens completed compared to survivors sacrificed.
The 3 gen system and anti face camp have only solved the extreme cases of what they are trying to prevent. Both of those strategies, knowing when to kick gens and standing more than 2 feet from a survivor still allow the killer to execute both of those strategies. Also, none of those systems involve the automated flagging of an account that results in negative action taken on them. This would be a first.
I'm not jumping any shark. I am asking the questions that need to be asked, otherwise we will get a half baked system that will wrongfully ban players. Apparently some people are okay with that.
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@Cataca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886184#Comment_3886184
I know multiple Pig players on this forum that have had people go next on them so for being pig so yes absolutely can say that, and yes Being a Freddy main since 2022 I have had multiple go nexts just for choosing freddy even when I'm running meme builds with pallet only freddy
Well unless we have some proof, your anecdotal evidence is just as meaningful as mine.