Valuetown
Valuetown
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632472#Comment_3632472
At first I gave some ideas, what you could do and there are more, I‘m only too lazy too write a long text.
Secondly, I didn‘t say that people are dumb in general, just in the scamper situation. I changed the dumb part to fit better. I‘m sorry if I attacked someone personally, that was not my intention. I have so many survivors that just wait on the other side of the pallet and then I scamper, but they refuse to move, which then gives me the „free“hit.
Chucky is far from broken, yes strong, but not broken. You never played him, he has some scenarios, where he really struggles, especially on big maps.
I don't believe you were directly calling anyone in particular dumb, so you have nothing to apologize for. The reason I brought that up was simply because dumb is relative and subjective. A "dumb player" to a comp player could be any of the 99% of the playerbase below them. A "dumb player" to an average player could be someone only 40% below them, which is what I was getting at. At a certain point, the knowledge you need to counter the killer gets increasingly higher, especially bringing up blight counters, that saying "too dumb" could very well be talking about a top 5% player with 8k hours.
And sticking on the idea of subjectivity, the same goes for the line between strong and broken, as it's all up to one's personal judgement. I know a handful of players that think pain resonance is broken, but many killers would be quick to refute them. Who's right? Is anyone right? I have played Chucky multiple times, and there are very, very specific tiles that he does not thrive in, I agree. But he will eventually catch up to you, either through bloodlust, a mind game, etc, and it won't be as painful as it would be on any other m1 killer, speaking from experience.
Like I said, the line between strong and broken differs between people, and it looks like we have a different definition of that line, which is perfectly fine to have. Ultimately I just hope the devs have enough anecdotes from the forums along with their own internal data to make the right call with a buff/nerf.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632431#Comment_3632431
That‘s simply untrue. Survivors have plenty of options.
I have two groups of people I play against.
- Where am I; They run blindly around and think I‘m still moving, when I don‘t move and wait that they run into me.
- Loop actually good; spin me; prerun and loop me like a blight.
It’s actually not that difficult to play against him. Is he strong? Shure, but not too strong. Scamper is mainly fine too, but survivors are mostly too dumb to just run around pallets. They wait until I scamper and want to vault it. Then I just hit them, but that’s not a killer issue. His slice and dice is also no free hit. There are a lot of places, where you can‘t use it and when you vault a window he can‘t really turn around, so just run to the right or left. Just play against slice and dice like you play against blight.
The last part is not a Chucky problem more a map problem.
If only saying something was untrue made it so. 😂
You say survivors have plenty of options but refused to give any, which is quite telling in and of itself. Of course you can't guarantee a scamper hit when approaching from unfavorable angles, but you will only get an unfavorable angle 1 in 10 times you go for a scamper play.
Also, play it like blight? As if that's any better? So I have to hope my loop has an alcove I can hide in while the blight is trying to moonrush, hug tech, and 720 flick me all in the same rush? Or just run through the pallet and hope the game doesn't give the killer the hit anyway because the hitbox is extremely forgiving when they swing through the pallet? You can't be serious right?
Also I don't know what it is with people saying this, but "too dumb" survivors? Knowing how to counter a blight the way you're suggesting is something only higher skilled players know how to do. "Too dumb survivors", if you're following the standard bell curve when it comes to the skill distribution in this game, is 83% of all survivor players if you account for one standard deviation from average and everything to the left average. 83%. Do you think it's fair that someone can throw on a killer and 4k most of the time because 83% of the playerbase has no idea what to do? Because 83% of the playerbase doesn't want to invest 30 hours a week playing the game, watching every new "tech" guide to keep up with a killer that gets so much in his kit for free?
To a certain extent sure, survivor skill issue I will give you that. However, the majority of it simply comes down to avoiding the obvious and instead pushing an unrealistic expectation upon all survivors in order to feed someone's ego. "My character isn't broken, you all are just too dumb, and I am smarter than you." Last time we went down this road, we got 1,500 win streak blights because survivors can't do anything against him. But surely that's a survivor skill issue right?
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@Magic_0ne said:
Chucky is fine...ignore all the scamper haters they probably like pre dropping pallets and expect to get rewarded for low skill plays.
Let me go over scamper really quicky so first of all if you scamper it's not a "free hit" as you HAVE to use your power in order to get that hit...yeah on PTB it WAS a free hit. However, because they nerfed the scamper speed slightly + chucky being 110, he doesn't get around many tiles in time to just m1 people unless the survivors pathing is bad. So there are 2 counterplay options: either get the stun or if you don't and he scampers dodge his slice and dice. Every idiot I've seen complain will post a clip where they pre drop a pallet and then proceed to run in a straight line...like of course you got hit dumbass you played badly lol. Pre dropping takes no skill so I think scamper is fair game.
Only one issue...enduring...so my suggestion is nerf scamper slightly so that when stunned it takes a chunk out of his power gauge equivalent to like 3 - 4 seconds of his power so he can't immediately scamper after recovering from the stun so it gives survivors more time to make distance and rewards them for getting the stun. Obviously if he's in his power he gets stunned out of power like he does now.
Note: this would also apply to things like head on, ds, etc.
"Scamper haters" - people having valid criticism over a massively overtuned killer
So let me run through the scenarios in which a survivor is running to a pallet and what options they have:
1) Chucky not in power, run through pallet - he stealths as you run through, turning most loops into his favor because you can't see him nor his red stain and he can just m1 you
2) Chucky not in power, prethrow pallet - chucky stealths, scampers, and you get hit anyway because he gets a dash
3) Chucky in power, run through pallet - he gets to curve and flick his m1, hitting you anyway
4) Chucky in power, prethrow pallet - he scampers and continues his dash, curves, and flicks you with m1
If Chucky is sitting on his power, he will hit you. And his power is on an extremely short cooldown to boot, so he will most likely have it up when he needs it.
I'm sorry but "just pallet stun him" and "just dodge his ability" are not counterplay. Unless you're playing on The Game, what happens when the 8 pallets available on every other map disappear and you're left with "just dodge," because "just pallet stun" isn't possible anymore? But even besides that point, having to frame perfect drop a pallet multiple times just to avoid a killer power? Yeah, no I'm sorry, no matter what way you look at it, it just isn't fair for anyone on the receiving end.
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Let me just start off by saying the people claiming Chucky is in a good spot gameplay wise are either 1) killer mains that never play survivor or 2) being intellectually dishonest about the topic at hand for their own gain.
I don't want to be that person that just says "oh go watch the latest Otz video," but unironically go watch the lastest Otz tierlist. There's a reason he ranked him as the 4th best killer. Small stature, stealth, pallet loop counter, a dash. He's ranked as the 4th best killer, and it's only been what? 6 weeks since his release? 6 weeks is more than enough time for survivors to adapt and find counters, but guess what? There aren't any. He gets a free health state every 20 seconds because he can flat out ignore god pallets, with an ability that has a hitbox so forgiving, half the time I'm wondering if it's a 10 foot aoe around him instead of a stab. And 20 seconds is generous because half the time you can't even see him at a loop because of his size, and inadvertently run into him anyway.
I agree with some of the other commenters that after a scamper, he needs to deep wound. Every other killer that can ignore dropped pallets by vaulting them have a downside. Legion deep wounds, Wesker has to use a charge of his power, and his momentum is extremely slow after vaulting. Chucky? Free hit, and better yet, he can Blight dash afterwards, so what little distance you gained running away gets made up for almost immediately, usually resulting in a very quick down.
I understand his small size is an inherent part of the killer, so I won't talk about how he's pretty much impossible to see at even medium sized loops, but hopefully his other strong points are addressed to make up for that immutable quality of his design. Like I said, I think realistically the only thing that is needed to tone him down to an acceptable level is to make him deep wound a survivor after a scamper. It allows a survivor some agency in which loops to stay at, without just dying immediately, while still allowing Chucky to injure a healthy survivor like the current version. I think the only time he can down a survivor after a scamper should be if they are already deep wounded. That way, a healthy survivor still takes two hits to down just like the live version, and an injured survivor has some breathing room instead of just dying on the spot.
Don't forget that Chucky can still mind game with his size, so a survivor sitting at a pallet won't be the worst thing in the world. This only really gives god pallets their namesake back against a killer who just flat out ignores them on live.
Of course, tweaking power cooldowns and the like will probably be needed, but that goes without saying.
(I'm also not going to mention the fact that most good Chucky's turn their mouse dpi up to 50,000 to ignore the coded "turn rate limits," much like blight and oni players, but that's another discussion for another day.)
On a positive note, hats off to the team for acquiring the license. The character model and voice lines are fantastic. The design and fidelity to the source material is always the best part of the licensed killers you release, and Chucky is no different. Thank you for providing an avenue for feedback, because due to his popularity, Chucky is seen every other or every 3rd game most nights when I play. I would love to enjoy this killer on both sides, but as he currently stands, it's almost impossible to do so on survivor while also feeling like I have any agency in chase.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3462077#Comment_3462077
Exactly, They devs made it clear that no perks or item completed negated killers power, unless it is a killer specific item like Wesker's first aid spray or Singularity's emp. They reworked flashlights and even toolbox, that flashlights light burns on specific Killer's like wraith and hag, and also how toolbox/the perk sabotage can be used to complete breakdown and make Trapper's bear traps completed useless for a great duration of time; render his only power useless.
If No Mither was "buffer" and make no blood orbs for ONI; then Whats stopping him from having a full squad of swf bringing No Mither all together would be quite a terrible game for Oni, with his passive slowest Regen, even with best regen addons.
Plus, No Mither isn't exactly meant to be a meta perk, more like "Best" Hardcore DBD perk, for those want to take a challenge or do adept David, or even be a CHAD in gen repair speed.
By this logic, no perk should enhance the killer's power either, which is exactly what spawning in as no mither does against Oni.
I've been running no mither exclusively every day for the past 2 months, and I've played against a fair share of Onis. I've gone against Onis that intentionally don't down me just to have free blood everywhere on the map. The killer shouldn't be rewarded when a survivor runs a perk. "Hardcore" or not, being injured is already a challenge within itself. Despite this, I can tell you first hand that he would not suffer nearly as much as people are trying to make it seem (due to the fact that you're already vulnerable being injured) as there are other healthy survivors he can gain power off of.
And addressing the edge case that a swf brings 4 no mithers blindly into a match and the killer happens to be an Oni, what's the difference between that and a 4 man swf running sabo, breakout, flip flop? I'd argue the sabo, flip flop is actually worse. The swf can't see what killer is up next, it's just an unfortunate outcome of random chance, which is where that argument breaks down. I agree that if you can't get blood orbs if there are 4 no mithers, that wouldn't be a good alternative. A good compromise may be to remove the blood orb drop if you're running no mither, but give a certain percentage of his power on downs.
And let's not forget that you are injured the entire match while running no mither. You're not invincible at all. Mind games still exist. 50/50s still exist. Getting stuck on a loop still exists. One mistake as a no mither and you're down.
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@Annso_x said:
I don't think survivors get less because of the event items, but simply because there's more variety in survivor bloodwebs (including a bunch of useless stuff) so they're less likely to get something than killers.
It's always more difficult to get literally anything for survivors. I wouldn't mind it if the stuff we got instead was useful, but there's so many useless add-ons (and items tbh) that it makes the whole thing frustrating.
We don't get less in terms of quantity, but in terms of return on investment, we get much less.
For example, in my P100 bloodwebs, I need to spend between 30k and 40k for one web. I'm only guaranteed two mystery box nodes, which more often than not give two items and zero cakes. If we assume 30k per bloodweb, and the total return value is the 4k total from the event items, the amount of bloodpoints I get out of the bloodweb is 0.13 times that of what I put in (for event items only).
Now if you move over to the killer side where they are guaranteed 2 cakes a bloodweb, and average double an average score of 30k a match, well now I'm getting 2 times the value of what I put in (for event items only).
I agree the core issue is the manner in which we get items as well as the saturation of useless items, but in the meantime, just increasing the amount of guaranteed cakes for survivor would go a long way.
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Here's a post I made last night about my P100 experience with trying to get Terrormisus: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/380335/adjust-anniversary-bloodweb-spawns-for-p100-bloodwebs#latest
Some of my friends already have 200+ cakes on their killers, while I'm sitting at only 41 of them for my P100 Yui.
I really hope the devs take a look at this, because I agree with you in that I'd rather have cakes than low quality item reskins.
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Another anecdote, I just spent another 400k on my P100 and only got 6 cakes (Roughly 66,666k bloodpoints to earn one cake!)
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@LapisInfernalis said:
I have a P100 Jeff and I am fine with the event stuff. You get even more overall for the same BP than a sub P100 character.
I get a guaranteed cake and two mystery boxes with a 3rd at a small chance. The cakes are still the same anount (about 30-35) like a non P100 survivor. Only items are about double.
It used to be a lot worse. Only 1.5 years a go you would only get one of any event stuff per lvl 50 web with a small chance of a second. And webs were 50-60k too.
Killer's get about 60 cakes per prestige. Don't know about P100 since I don't have that yet.
I remember how terrible it used to be, and I'm happy that they adjusted bloodpoint costs for nodes. Also I wish I had a guaranteed cake every bloodweb! Since I'm getting roughly 150k-200k a match on average, that would be about 5-7 cakes guaranteed per one cake put in. However just last night, I did 5 bloodwebs in a row where I only got toolboxes and flashlights.
I know some players really love the survivor anniversary items, which is valid. But for me personally, I'd rather be able to share the 107% bloodpoint bonus with everyone in a match throughout the year because I stockpiled cakes, rather than claiming 2 items every 30k-40k that are reskins of uncommon items valued at 2500.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3461799#Comment_3461799
Ohh you’re talking about survivor. My fault.
No worries! I should have specified in my original post.
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@HugTechLover said:
math don’t add up. I put a couple hundred thousand into my blight and I’ve got 120 cakes. I get 3-4 per web.
You're forgetting that survivors have medkits, toolboxes, and flashlights as well. I'm talking specifically about my rate at getting cakes so I can run them throughout the year.