Valuetown
Valuetown
About
- Username
- Valuetown
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708745#Comment_3708745
Just related to the last point if you got a first hook and there are still 5 gens remaining, either you are playing nurse or blight or the survivors you are facing are literally throwing, a first chase should at the very worst get one gen done and at the very best 3, however a 3 gen first chase means a lot of resources were spent so the perfect spot for first chase is going to a strong loop, greeding it for how long you can, drop pallet and the use unsafe loops, that should be 2 gens if the killer does not drop chase.
No lol I'm able to get a survivor down before the first gen pops when I play wraith, onryo, spirit, wesker, skull merchant, etc, and I see other killers do the same when I play survivor. So no, the very worst is 0 gens.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708729#Comment_3708729
That's not really the issue here. I honestly think that this part is completely fine. If a Plague is tunneling, then she really shouldn't have Corrupt Purge to keep the chase short on top of that. But they said before, that they were not going to do this.
And the explanation that it's a 5 year old bug is about as good as saying, that they just did it for the lols. Seriously, how am I supposed to believe that it took them 5 years to notice that it didn't actually work like that? They buffed Plague a few time since her release, so she wasn't ignored either and this has never been mentioned as a known issue.
What really makes me mad though, is that they apply this change to Plague but they're so adamant doing the same thing for Nurse and Blight. You know, the 2 strongest killers in the game that could easily lose have their powers put on a cooldown to reduce their tunneling capabilities at least slightly.
This was not done to combat tunneling (otherwise, they'd do it on other killers too). It is the same thing they did with hit animations on that one PTB. Because they had always intended it to work like that. Which makes no sense.
Also, "patrolling gens" is not the pro tip you think it is. That's something a killer in their first game will do. The more experience you have as a killer the less actual patrolling happens because you don't have the time for that. Instead you go exactly where you need to be and stay in chase as much as possible.
People want this interaction removed so they can more easily tunnel with their blood puke on plague. That is literally the only reason as to why people would see this change, figure it was a bug fix, and then complain that it's no longer in the game, all while hiding behind "well the devs said perks shouldn't disable the killer's abilities."
The easiest and most obvious answer to "how did the devs not notice" is the devs do not play their game to the extent that they should. Case and point: the scrapped twins changes. Case and point: Blight's "nerfs" (buffs). Case and point: the new DS animation. Case and point: the eruption meta. The devs are ostensibly too busy making the game that they can't play test it themselves, and whatever QA team they do have does a very superficial check when new patches release. The fog whisperers are supposed to be the dev's gauge on the health of the game for balance, fun, and bugs, but the devs seldom listen to them. Otz can make a 7 hour long video on his proposed changes, but it's all for naught because the suggestions fall on deaf ears.
At this point, blight needs 3 dashes base kit, and nurse either needs 1 blink or a complete rework. Yes, it is unfortunate that they remain at the top, but plague is very, VERY close behind them in terms of killer snowball.
How would you determine "exactly where you need to be" is, when you've just hooked somebody, 5 gens are left, and you don't have bbq. You start patrolling gens when you have no current targets. I really hope your answer is "well I'd just proxy camp usually."
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
At least the second thread where someone posts a video of Otz about this.
And IMO it is fair. A Plague who got hit by DS was most likely tunneling anyway, good riddance that her power is gone then.
Killer mains trying their absolute hardest to keep tunneling the most efficient strategy. Instead of actually learning how to patrol gens, improving their chase, improving their game sense. Nope, just "me killer, me tunnel."
-
In the long run, removing the DC penalty would require the devs to make GOOD balance changes and to do so consistently and more frequently if they wanted all aspects of their game to be played. DCs would act as a de facto gauge on balance and fun.
There is no denying that certain perk combinations and killer powers create a very unfun game experience for survivors. Vice versa for survivor builds as well. If there was no DC penalty, if a match wasn't fun for every player, they would leave. Why should anyone be tormented with the most unfun game of the month because some killer player is "entitled to their fun at the expense of the survivors'?" The devs would need to balance these combinations in order for them to be used without disconnects, which would require an accurate read on the community and the general power level of all aspects of their game. Take a look at the scrapped twins changes and tell me with a straight face that we are even close to that point.
This game is stuck in a weird purgatory where it wants to have extreme competitive integrity while also being a carefree party game for newer players. It's the desire to have both that ultimately is hurting this game. It needs to decide what it wants to be and to continue down that path without looking back. Remaining indecisive in an attempt to capture the widest audience only hurts the experience of people that genuinely care for this game and its gameplay loop.
Also don't forget, before the DC penalty existed, players could DC as frequently as they wanted. And guess what? Not every game ended in 4 survivor DCs or the killer DCing. Sure skill levels and the game as a whole have changed, but that is proof that it is possible for both sides to enter a match and enjoy the outcome enough for both sides to remain until the trial's conclusion. No, every game would not end in the killer playing against 4 bots. No, not every game would have the killer disconnecting. Let's not pretend that the era of dbd where the game felt the most alive wasn't during a time where DCs existed without penalties.
-
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708176#Comment_3708176
Well, but in other Bug Report they pointed that it's not a bug.
And if they made it because of balancing decisions, why there is not a single word in patchnotes? That's what making me super mad. It's a big change to killer. And they hope no one will notice it or what?To this day, they still haven't officially said why surge now causes survivors on generators to scream. At this point, I assume they considered the patched out functionality a "bug" and don't mention it in the patch notes, which I disagree with since bug fixes should be listed in patch notes.
-
@Nun_So_Vile said:
Adrenaline Counters (since we're mentioning it)
A. No Way Out
B. NoED
C. Terminus
D. Blood Warden
E. Kill surv before all gens pop
F. Hex: Devour Hope
G: Adiris
You're welcome.
E should be higher. If a killer complains about adrenaline, they're probably not doing a good enough job during the match.
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707529#Comment_3707529
Again, look up Halo 1 PC (the original one by gearbox) It was so bad that ON LAN yes LAN, you were hitting INVISIBLE hitboxes not the actual character model. It is not as clear cut as you make it out to be.
I agree that it isn't as clear cut as we are making it out to be. Comparing both the hardware and software of Halo 1 made in 2001 to a game that was just recompiled for a contemporary engine is like comparing apples to oranges. There are too many variables to claim that Halo 1 was bad just because of the way they decided to do hit registration, which could have been way ahead of its time and not supported by the technology available. Technology has made leaps and bounds to warrant some sort of trial into fair and valid hit registration for all players instead of maintaining the status quo.
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707489#Comment_3707489
So, you can't just "ban" people due to their ping, otherwise a massively large playerbase just wouldn't get to play the game, and the devs would need infrastructure all over the planet in order to accommodate everyone. Probably a better solution there is to just let players see ping and let them decide for themselves, that might be fine.
But regardless, to answer your question of "why does it favor killer" is because you always favor the person "doing the attack" look at any competitive FPS game, if you play counterstrike long enough, you will run into situations where you peak out of a corner, get back into cover, and then die AFTER you get back into cover.
Because if you don't favor the attacker, then the attacker needs to predict not only where the player is going to go, but also where the server thinks they are based on yours and their ping. It creates a really terrible scenario where the game is completely unfun to play because you are having to "lead" your shots, not based on any kind of predicted movement, or even projectile travel time, but some constantly changing variable that is yours and the other player's ping.
The best example i can give of this, is The original Halo 1 PC made by gearbox. The multiplayer for that game was complete garbage, because they did not favor the shooter when they accounted for hits, because of that, when hitting a moving target, you actually had to hit some invisible hitbox that you didn't actually know where the hitbox at any given moment because multiple players have multiple different pings, and ping is constantly changing. And that hitbox was often not attached to the player's model. Keep in mind that in that game most guns did not have a travel time and were hitscan. So even the sniper rifle had to "lead" their shots and hit the invisible hitbox instead of the actual model of the player they saw.
Now how does that translate into DBD? Well, by literal design, the survivors are never "attacking" the killer. So it appears as though this hit validation is "favoring the killer" because, yeah, it kind of is. But the alternative, is instead that killers have to not actually hit the survivor, but some invisible hitbox that is actually going to be in front of the survivor when they are running. Which is way way worse to play, than it is to be on the receiving end of a hit that didn't quite look right.
If the ping is good enough, the player does not need to predict anything to compensate for it. 25 ms is ONE TENTH the average human reaction time for visual stimulus. Open the stopwatch on your phone and press start then stop as fast as you can, and that is most often going to be slower than 25 ms. If the connection is crisp enough, the player's location on one screen is going to be within pixels of where they actually on another player's screen.
In a perfect world, latency wouldn't be a problem, and yes I understand this isn't a perfect world, but tightening down the ping requirements is one way to help mitigate this issue, or like you suggested, let me see every player's ping (including the killer's) to decide if the game is going to be fair. Also, behaviour probably makes enough to invest in at least a couple servers in regions that are deserving of them.
The other component to this is hit validation. That has less to do with latency and more to do with the software behind it. How many survivor data packets with contrary data to the killer's need to be sent for a killer hit to register a miss due to awful ping? If a killer has 150 ms and a surivor has 25 ms, the survivor has sent 5 more packets to the server over a 150 ms period with valid game data. How is it that the killer sending two game packets during that period somehow has the advantage? I know there is a ton of behind the scenes data that gets looked at, such as distance discrepancy, survivor position client side vs position server side, but the hit validation was introduced to help ameliorate high latency players, primarily killers. More often than not, it rewards them.
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/412121/please-fix-these-hits-please
This looks like a good hit. You have to keep in mind that ping is a thing. Even when you have what would be considered "good" ping at around 50, that is the round trip time it takes for data from you to go to the server.
So, if you are at a spot, and walk forward, it takes 25 milliseconds for the server to register that. Then the server, needs to do whatever it does, then send it to the killer, which takes another 25 milliseconds (assuming the killer has the same ping). This means that the killer actually sees you where you WERE 50 milliseconds ago on their screen. So on their screen, that was probably a solid hit.
Basically, the way this works out is, on the killer side, survivors are further away than they appear. On the survivor side, killers are closer than they appear.
My comment is working under the assumption that everyone's ping is 25 ms to the server and 25 ms to them for the sake of discussion.
Everyone is sending their local game state data to the server the same time they're receiving the previous game state from 25 ms ago. There's a ton of under the hood stuff like prediction placements but that's beyond the scope of this discussion. Essentially, if the survivor has 25 ms to send the data to the server and the killer has 25 ms to send the data to the server, why have the devs chosen that the killer's data gets favored? Both the survivor and killer's states are inaccurate representations of the server game state, but they're going to favor killer just because? I know the discussion at that point becomes well why should one side have an advantage over the other, and in reality none should. Just because someone chose to play killer doesn't mean they should get special treatment when it comes to something as critical to a player's enjoyment as latency.
This is the same reason why players with over 150 ping (arbitrary number which in my opinion is already too high for player enjoyment) should not be allowed to connect to a match. High ping comes at the cost of the enjoyment of the rest of the players in the lobby, especially if that player is the killer. I understand the difficulty of connecting to a server from a region that doesn't have one locally, but there needs to be a better solution than what we currently have.
-
I agree for both cases as well. I don't like essentially being forced to run a perk as a band-aid to poor design, for both killer and survivor.
I really would like to see Windows adjusted as well, since it's sitting at 33%, but perhaps the game can be tuned elsewhere to compensate.
-
@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705983#Comment_3705983
It clearly saw too much play compared to other perks.
Here are the stats from February, nearly 25% of all builds had Adrenaline. Its too much.Pop and pain res are also pushing 25%. Do you also consider those "too much?"
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706547#Comment_3706547
First you bring up high mobility killers, then you claim that BBQ stops you from hiding. So what now? Is the killer near you or are they not? I genuinely cannot follow your thought process. You list things that imply the killer will run across the map and then you say, they're still near you. Are we talking about Schroedinger's killer here? Because usually a killer will not be both on the other side of the map and near you all at once.
Old UW doesn't exist anymore. You cannot use old UW to counter new Adrenaline. That's why it's pointless even bringing up.
Reread everything I wrote in this thread. I'm not going to re-explain everything I already concisely said.
I mentioned high mobility because those are the killers that snowball the easiest. If you 99 a gen to get adrenaline to work, the killer walks over and pops the gen, and now you cannot run to the other side of the map to get that 25 seconds back because they are high mobility, and the match went from survivors winning to the killer getting a 4k. High mobility is used in chase in addition to map movement.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706217#Comment_3706217
For BBQ the killer first needs a hook. And considering how much time passes in between them leaving you, getting into another chase and then downing and hooking a survivor you can easily get away from there and be healed with time to spare.
Nowhere To Hide doesn't work on a finished gen and we're talking about the end game. You know, when all the gens are done and the exit gates are powered. Good luck activating Nowhere To Hide now.
UW was nerfed too. Worse than Adrenaline because it lost its utility. So none of the perks you mentioned will make it harder for you to last until the exit gates are open.
Comedy at its best.
Are you going to ignore how I said that the final gen is usually NOT on the other side of the map from the hook? If the gen is within 32 meters of the hook, which it usually is because where else are survivors worth chasing going to be, everything I said was correct.
I also said old ultimate weapon, since it hasn't even been 24 hours since the 7.7.0 patch.
I highly suggest reading a post thoroughly before writing a response that misrepresents what the post had said.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3706025#Comment_3706025
"Oh no. The killer ran across the map and my team had to finish the last gen. Now my Adrenaline won't work, which I definitely needed because the killer is nowhere near me and hiding or healing somewhere else is definitely not an option."
In that situation you don't need Adrenaline. You just lay low and make sure they don't find you again.
"Lay low" when nowhere to hide/bbq/old ultimate weapon existed.
Comedy.
-
@Xernoton said:
Unhook first, pop gen later. Done.
Now Adrenaline still does pretty much the same thing as before. The HUD tells you exactly how far the gens are and it's not hard to just wait for 10 seconds before you finish it.
Until the nurse/blight/Billy/wesker/oni/spirit/etc. sprints over to the final gen with pop and suddenly your situation goes from survivor favored to killer favored, especially if 1 survivor has already been sacrificed. Survivors don't always get hooked on the opposite side of the map as the last gen with the most progress. More often than not, it's right next to it.
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705386#Comment_3705386
My name is irrelevant look past your own bias and realize your experience on her is no where near mine and I am a much better authority on her skill cap. And if you want to ignore that then go ahead because Otzdarva agrees with me in this regard too.
You never did say who complains about moris still.
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705331#Comment_3705331
Well I think this conversation is over because I’m almost certain you don’t play either killer at all. And I’m certain you don’t play killer at all either. It is very easy with almost any killer to tunnel a survivor out with 3-4 gens left. You also seem to think that there are no objects on any maps at all because a survivor gains far more distance than 4 meters when they weave in and out of trees, rocks and walls.
Also I don’t have to consider the hours of the survivors I’m playing against because I’m on steam and even though I only have a few thousand hours, in the vast majority of games I match against survivors with 6,000 plus hours. Very rarely does it drop below 3,000 hours.
I would highly recommend trying both killers. And play them both enough to go against good survivors so you can shed your bias and realize the strengths and weaknesses of both killers. I have played both extensively and can say with certainty that PP head has far less drawbacks.
I do play killer enough and I do play both enough to understand their mechanics. I can say with certainty that I'd rather play huntress over pyramid head.
Again, hours does not equal skill.
Surely my bias as a survivor main who is practically impartial in this regard pales in comparison to that of someone with huntress in their username.
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705312#Comment_3705312
Your terror radius point is irrelevant because i can tell you after over a thousand hours of Huntress a lot of survivors will start running before they hear your terror radius because when they hear your lullaby they will constantly be looking around and on high alert. So having a 50m lullaby is a huge negative. Yes pyramid head holds still for literally less than a second so that part is also irrelevant. And contrary to your belief better Huntress's hold their hatchets longer, becasue they h-ave to watch for patterns or make adjustments to not miss. Also they have to hold it for 3 seconds minimum otherwise it travels much slower and can be dodged easy af. I could literally make an hour long video about how to play her. Not the same with pp head. And she is down so low on Otz's tier list because survivors have gotten much stronger hook perks since then, along with ever worsening maps when it comes to clutter and being indoors.
And im saying If YOU cant hit a survivor through a wall without aura reads then that's a skill issue lol. Its not very hard to do and i.ve ran into several pyramid heads that can do it easily since his hitbox is so big. People are still complaining about moris everywhere, just look at any video related to them and the comments will be full of them. 3 Minutes of trails is an insane amount of time and can allow you to easily torment survivors and trust me Pyramid head does NOT struggle to get downs lol. Him being a better tunneler is not moot at all and its actually embarrassing that you dismiss that out right. Considering its one of the most complained about things in the game and he is by far the best at it. It doesnt matter if survivors stick to gens if they end up in a 3v1 in the first 2 minutes of the match because all of the ant tunnel perks dont work against him lol.
Have you considered you're playing against under 100 hour players that run when they hear the huntress' lullaby? If every survivor ran off generators the second they heard it, you'd 4k every game. Over 1000 hours means nothing when hours played does not equate to skill. People can have thousands of hours in league of legends but be stuck in bronze 4.
Your second point about holding hatchets shows exactly why hours does not equal skill. A survivor has to bob and weave when a huntress holds a hatchet, or they're an easy target. You know what they're losing by doing that? That's right! Distance! If a survivor runs in a straight line and huntress holds the hatchet for 3 seconds, she only loses just under 4 meters worth of distance. Pyramid head loses that minimum regardless of how long he holds his power. If a survivor tries to dodge a huntress hatchet like a good player does, they lose way more distance, and are essentially forced into a loop with high enough terrain to block a hatchet.
It is much easier to hold w against a pyramid head than a huntress, and that's just a fact.
It is completely moot because if you want to tunnel 1 person out of the game, congrats 5 gens are done in the 3 minutes it took you to do so if the survivor holds on. Yes, camping is one of the most complained about things right now, but if pyramid head was so much better at it, you'd think there'd be an increase in his play rate, but there isn't.
Huntress is way easier to play and her skill ceiling is much higher as well.
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705276#Comment_3705276
One below is still far different then you saying he is waaaay below her. Even with her buffs now; their spots don’t change. Pyramid head doesn’t need to recover distance, he moves at 110% when using PoTD compared to Huntress moving 77% so he has literally zero punishment for holding his power, and his recovery after a missed attack is only one second. You can’t just W key away from every loop against pp head either because his trails last for 180 seconds. So all he has to do is drop a small trail on the pallet and you won’t have a choice of he is smart. While yes Huntress is a better camper, Phramid Head is BY FAR a MUCH better tunneler. Allowing you to instantly down a survivor right out of a cage. People complain about Mori offerings and he essentially has it base kit. Him being able to hit through walls of all heights is insane because he doesn’t have to worry about the insane amount of clutter on maps and his attack being blocked by any objects. The literal only things she does better are long range health states which even then is sometimes impossible because 7 indoor maps and 30+ maps with an insane amount of clutter. And the speed of taking health states on grouped up survivors. Oh and camping. That’s literally it. Pyramid head is better everywhere else in every way.
Huntress had been his top 5 pick for years. I don't know what prompted him to drop her 5 spots and below pyramid head, but she has always been A tier on his lists.
You also don't understand what I had said. Pyramid head's terror radius is 32 meters. Huntress' is 20 meters. Sure she has a lullaby, but you'll hear that the entire game, so you really don't know if she is coming to your gen or not. A survivor starting to run the second pyramid head's terror radius plays gives them 12 additional meters over huntress'. A survivor holding w 32 meters away is way worse than a survivor holding w 20 meters away. Besides, her hatchets cover that distance, pyramid head's power cannot. Also unless huntress is holding her hatchet for a long time, the 77% movement speed is faster if she aims and then throws like good huntresses do, because pyramid head stops in place for at least a second and has to regain his momentum when he powers, huntress is only 77% for maybe a second or two, only losing at most 3 meters, where he loses at least 4 meters.
His trails lasting 180 seconds doesn't matter if he cannot get a down. If he has effectively chased every survivor around the map without so much as a health state, let alone a survivor getting tormented, he's essentially lost the game.
Like I said, if you're getting hit through walls by pyramid head, that's a skill issue. Hitting through an animation lock like vaulting a window? Sure, but huntress can do that too.
Your comment on better tunneler is moot because if he decides to proxy camp the cage, he's also already lost the game if the survivors know what they're doing.
Also people haven't complained about moris in years, ever since they nerfed them to their current power level. Who's this secret group of people you're talking about?
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705182#Comment_3705182
A hard pill to swallow is how wrong you are lol. Not only does Otzdarva put Pyramid Head higher than her on his tier list but almost every other content creator does too lmao. The only thing Huntress can do better out of what I listed is zone from further away that’s it. As for hitting people through walls I would say that’s just a skill issue on your part because it’s actually not that hard to do, it’s just that an aura read perks takes out any doubt . He literally counters 30+ strong survivor perks, counters pallet saves, allows for easy tunneling and killing a survivor on the spot. He’s also better at using M1 perks, stealth perks, exposed perks, oblivious perks, and blindness perks. Sure his add ons are trash but he is definitely better.
I'd play against a great pyramid head over a great huntress any day of the week. Especially with her 2 additional hatchets buff.
If you're talking about otz's 7.4.0 tierlist, she is legitimately the one below pyramid head lol. That is also coming up on 3 patches old.
As for skill issue sure, I dodge most pyramid head m2s through walls where he can't see me, as it's very obvious what pyramid heads try to do. I'd suggest to not even attempt those and to try to recover distance on the survivor.
As for tunneling and camping, huntress excels if not performs better than pyramid head. The only thing he has going for him is the mori on death hook, but that requires a survivor to be tormented.
If you have people looping a tile and are willingly getting tormented, that is a skill issue. Pyramid head is a hold w to counter killer until you either get to a strong loop with line of sight blockers or have nowhere else to go. That's where huntress excels. She can take those health states from distance where pyramid head can only hold w to catch up.
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3705071#Comment_3705071
PoTD moves 3x faster than a hatchet, pp head doesn’t vocalize his attack and nor does he have a map wide sound of it hitting full power and nor does he have a 3 second wind up time. The power goes through walls as well and the red line is almost completely indicate if he aimed right in the first place. NOT TO MENTION he is WAAAAY better at zoning than Huntress and receives almost zero penalty for canceling his M2 or missing PoTD. And yes perma tier 3 Meyers is very strong so it’s fair to compare to plague but just imagine perma tier 3 Meyers having a 12 meter lunge and that is essentially plague. Case closed.
I know this might be a hard pill to swallow, but there's a reason Huntress is essentially the 5th best killer on everyone's list while pyramid head is down further quite a bit: flip Huntress and pyramid head around with everything you said and that's your answer, because everything you said was wrong.
The thing about being able to hit through walls only matters if pyramid head can see them via an aura read perk, and even then it's still a gamble. Most of the time he just straight up misses in those cases.
-
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3704263#Comment_3704263
This is the correct response.
I am a flashbang enjoyer myself, particularly Head On into Flashbang as it just makes me laugh. But they should not work when killers are facing walls as there is absolutely no way to outplay that when combined with BGP.
The only other option (other than LB) is to tunnel out every BGP using survivor but you often find out the hard way that they are running it.
I don't feel killers should feel like LB is now mandatory but I can totally understand why some do after experiencing the misery of a full BGP using Flashbang/flashlight squad
It's not correct in my opinion. Flashbang should be allowed to aoe blind a killer who is facing a wall. Flashbang requires 45 seconds on a generator minimum without items or perks. As a killer, you have 45 seconds to get the snowball rolling, which happens almost every game.
Lightborn should not negate an entire mechanic.
As I've said in other threads, the fact you have multiple survivors swarming means the game has hit a standstill. 2 survivors going for an altruistic save on a downed survivor means that at most, one gen's worth of progress is being done over 90 seconds. That is better slowdown that bringing 4 slowdown perks as killer.
-
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nGG_hibdZc
This is why I run Lightborn 90% of my matches even when there is no flashlight.
Go to 2:24 in that video. He said he did not want to end the game early. He chose to play more casual for the sake of content, and then got frustrated that he allowed the survivors, who came in with the intention of using their perks to delay the killer, to use their perks. That is proof that you do not need lightborn since these survivor builds need time to actually come online. Otz gave them that time for free.
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703979#Comment_3703979
You remove the option to vault it if the killer is too close. Just like how you can’t hook a survivor if another survivor is sabotaging the hook. I had a Nea start sabotaging a hook from behind the hook and it completely stopped me from hooking. They can do the same for pallets.
Do you see that it's essentially that way but for survivor currently? The survivor is vaulting the pallet and you are not able to kick it, just like sabotaging a hook and just like heal teching at the exit gates. It just so happens that it doesn't favor killer, which isn't necessarily a problem, but it's a multifaceted topic. Why should the killer be able to lock out a survivor in that situation but not the other way around?
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703979#Comment_3703979
I think the solution there would be to either:
- Make it so there are different buttons to pick up and break a pallet
- Make it so a killer can break a pallet that a survivor is vaulting.
I like the different keybinds option. It reminds me of how console survivors can't heal when someone is downed on a pallet because the game prioritizes the pallet throw, unless they rebind the button. I have no idea why they aren't separate by default.
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703964#Comment_3703964
You are actively abusing the fact that you can clip through the killer model to vault a pallet and force a pick up. Glitching through a model is in fact an exploit and needs to be removed. It should auto force the killer to grab/hit the survivor off the pallet mid vault instead of forcing the pick up. Just like the dumb tech abusing the same ability to glitch through the killer model to go behind them after vaulting a pallet. Literal text book definition of an exploit.
If the devs want to fully adjust how animations work, sure. But how would you prevent a survivor from vaulting a pallet? If a killer is right next to it? Or would they just get stuck in front of the killer?
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703964#Comment_3703964
You are actively abusing the fact that you can clip through the killer model to vault a pallet and force a pick up. Glitching through a model is in fact an exploit and needs to be removed. It should auto force the killer to grab/hit the survivor off the pallet mid vault instead of forcing the pick up. Just like the dumb tech abusing the same ability to glitch through the killer model to go behind them after vaulting a pallet. Literal text book definition of an exploit.
If you read my post, you'd see that I agreed with you about the window tech.
I 100% disagree about CJ tech. The game shouldn't force a killer to do something they didn't intend to do because they can't stop spamming spacebar when they get pallet stunned. That is not an exploit.
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703836#Comment_3703836
As long as they remove the CJ Tech/ Window crouch Tech and window tech from the survivors I’ll be fine removing them from the killers too. Also the dumb tech has to go.
Window techs I agree with, CJ tech I disagree with because you're not exploiting any glitches or bugs. Knowing that vaulting a pallet prevents the killer from kicking it isn't a bug nor a glitch.
-
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703862#Comment_3703862
have you ever heard of bhopping and surfing in CS games maybe?
Yes I have. If Valve has said they don't mind them, then it's fine. Those aren't really comparable to wesker hug techs or oni flicks though.
-
@caligraph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701327#Comment_3701327
by this logic getting tunneled out is a skill issue.
"By this logic," when the logic you used is completely different than what I suggested. 👍️
Also I recommend reading the whole thread before posting.
-
@glitchboi said:
In my opinion, Wesker's hugtech and Billy's LoPro 180s should stay in the game because they have very high skill floors to get value out of. The way I see it, they're mostly for the style points, and going against killers that try to go for those rather than focusing on winning are a blast to go against and you gotta respect the gigabrain play they pulled off.
The thing with Blight's hugtech is that while it may have a high skill ceiling, it has a low skill floor to get value out of, and it's extremely straightforward compared to the ones mentioned while simultaneously having less counterplay than them.
I do think Blight's flicks are fine for the game though and is a good form of skill expression for both sides regarding counterplay and pulling them off.
Just because they take "skill" to perform doesn't justify the fact that they are bugs and glitches. Wesker hug techs are not just for "style points." They allow you to get m2s in places where if they didn't exist, it would be impossible to do so based on the design of the power.
-
@HexHuntressThighs said:
Now that we've seen Blights hug tech has been removed, do you think are we going to see the removal of all techs from both sides? What about the dumb tech or the window tech where you clip through the killer's model? What about Wesker's hug tech or Billy's Lo Pro Flicks? Or being able to use background player to drop a flashbang inside of the killers model when they pick up to guarantee a save?
Are we just removing killer techs or techs in general? I would sob uncontrollably if they removed orbitals from the game again.
Stop calling things like this techs and call them what they really are: using glitches that with any amount of scrutiny would show it was not what the developers intended.
I'm sure I'm not the first person to think this, but I've come up with a phrase every time I see a glitch-based tech: "It's a tech if it benefits the user, it's an exploit if it's used against them." Case and point: hug techs, oni flicks, Billy lopro techs. They're all exploiting bugged mechanics, but calling them techs "justifies" their use. It doesn't matter if there are counters to them or if it takes "skill" to perform them, abusing bugs is abusing bugs. Just because your car is physically allowed to go 120 mph doesn't mean it's legally allowed to do so, no matter how much you try to justify it.
I'm glad the devs are working to fix bugs like these, and they should continue to do so.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702915#Comment_3702915
The core gameplay loop hasn't changed in about 6 years and I doubt it will any time soon. Even if it did, then it would be the dev's job to update the tutorial. You know, the way they did it with the AFC for survivors.
A tutorial should teach players about the most fundamental aspects of the game. Dropping pallets when the killer is nowhere near you isn't such a thing. They could easily add a short sequence in which you see Meg looping the Trapper around small loop for a few seconds before dropping the pallet on his head. That is not too much of an effort for an experienced team but it would definitely demonstrate a core gameplay element. It also wouldn't make the tutorial much longer.
A tutorial being long doesn't mean it does a good job. Neither does a tutorial being short. That depends on how much and how well it actually teaches to new players. In pretty much every game I have played, they had a tutorial section that included a 30 seconds sequence (mostly less) that showed core gameplay elements step by step. I mean, even in Pokemon you always have some random guy teaching you how to catch them. It takes about 10 seconds and though it's annoying for people that already know (in which case in DBD people would simply skip the tutorial), it does a fantastic job introducing players to that mechanic.
I get that they can't teach people everything in a short tutorial (there are way too many mechanics for that) but at least it shouldn't teach them mistakes, which dropping a pallet when the killer is 10 metres away definitely qualifies as. The same could be said for going into a locker right next to the hook (although, the game demonstrates Meg getting found, so I guess we can let that slide).
The problem with leaving this to the community is, that someone that just tried the game for the first time will likely not engage with the community yet. After all, they haven't even decided, if they like the game yet. Which is why it's so important that the tutorial introduces the most basic gameplay because otherwise, they'll have to make that decision without actually understanding the game, which means they'll waste a lot of time if they decide later on, that it's not their kind of game.
Your pokemon catching analogy is almost identical to how much dbd's tutorial provides the player. In most games, they tell you "weaken the pokemon first." How much? Until the bar turns yellow? Red? "Throw a pokeball." Can you only throw one? In most of the tutorials, the pokemon is caught on the first try. They don't bother showing how status effects affect the catch rate, they don't mention how the different pokeballs have different catch multipliers, nor do they even mention that pokemon have unique catch rates. Most of that is learned over the course of trial and error in the game, reading what the items do in game, interacting with other players, or by looking up video guides.
Showing a Meg bot dropping a pallet on a Trapper bot is a good idea, I'd say that would be a valuable addition, but I'm not sure if new players would be able to understand to loop, then throw a pallet. That would be the first time a player sees this interaction, and hearing trapper get stunned and grunt would be mildly amusing and the "reward" for throwing the pallet. I fear that this might just incentivize players to camp pallets so that they can get the "reward" of a pallet stun. There needs to be a bigger explanation that pallets are limited and create dead zones once thrown, and that looping a tile correctly is your best friend.
I will say that 99 times out of 100, prethrowing is not the correct play, but there are corner cases where it is correct. I can think of some examples on lery's and rpd that come to mind against high mobility killers or even just down long hallways when you're injured and on death hook.
I wouldn't necessarily say watching a youtube video that someone has made constitutes as "interacting with the community." Commenting on the video? Yes. Asking a question on a forum? Yes. But watching a tutorial that is made, by design, for beginner players just sounds like something anyone playing a modern game like dbd would most certainly do since "watch a youtube tutorial" is almost a go-to for anything in today's age.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702683#Comment_3702683
A good tutorial doesn't only explain what the buttons do. Anyone can learn that by opening up the control settings. The tutorial's job is to explain how the game is played. And dropping a pallet when the killer is 10 metres away sure isn't it. That's like if the killer tutorial had a part in which you'd completely ignore a trapped survivor as the Trapper and go for someone else on the opposite side of the map.
Even the unhook example you brought up is done correctly. The killer leaves and now the Meg unhooks you. She doesn't run in their while the killer is still right next to the hook.
The other 2 points are always evaluated on a case by case basis. But it's never the right move to drop a pallet when the killer is so far away from you and you'd get a guaranteed stun just by waiting for a few seconds.
The problem with a tutorial explaining everything is 1) depending on changes to the game, it will require updating, and 2) most people don't like long tutorials. Sure the devs can implement a 2 hour long tutorial, explain every situation and what to do, but that is ignoring how every trial and every looping situation can be modified by what killer you're against, what perks are being run, etc. It would just be too much.
I'm not saying the devs do a fantastic job with this currently, but it's a fool's errand to attempt such a thorough tutorial that encompasses everything in an ever changing and expanding multiplayer pvp game.
This is one of the things that the community does infinitely better than the devs ever could. Want to know how flashbang works? Watch a YouTube video. Want to learn how to play singularity? Watch a YouTube video. Anyone can search anything they'd like and have multiple tutorials supplied to them. The only issue is that a player has to both know they are lacking skill in a specific area and care enough to look up how to improve.
-
@Onako said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702509#Comment_3702509
I agree with this.
I think it is less an issue of the amount of gen kicks overall and more of an issue of bad map design. Maps got smaller to help M1 killers while completely ignoring how oppressive high mobility killers can get with how close the generators spawn together these days.
Yeah exactly this. If the devs are targeting at least 60% kill rate for even their worst performing killers and are adjusting maps to compensate, the killers already at 60% jump at least another 10 even 20% with those changes.
-
We could always ask for the gen spawn logic to be adjusted as well and tweak maps from there. I can't count how many times I've been on a generator during a match and have essentially been less than 20 meters of at least one other gen, sometimes even two.
It would at least be a start towards making balanced maps for both killer and survivor, because that's where the issue resides.
-
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3702068#Comment_3702068
You didn't read: boons WERE OP, I stated "boons needed nerfing" with COH in particular being a big issue. If you think old COH was okay, well I don't think there is any reasoning with you.
I see just as much whining from survivors as I see from killers and the other claim was that BHVR are killer sided, when clearly they are not since the majority of their customers are the typical low kill casual survivor player. This should be obvious by the fact it is an asymmetrical game and pleasing the minority of your player base is just bad business.
As a survivor main of over 4k hours I can say survivors needed nerfing and things like COH were very broken.
You said "boons needed nerfing." You didn't supply a time frame for this, nor did you say which boons. Circle of healing is the only boon that has ever been strong enough to even be considered of receiving a nerf, and it was nerfed 3 months after its release, and nerfed again a few months after that. That was almost 2 and a half years ago, which is ancient history for this game. I wouldn't generalize "boons" being OP when it was realistically only one boon that was OP and was patched extremely quickly. Boons are rarely seen nowadays because unless you're dedicating at least two survivor builds around them, they require too much random chance to be effective for very little in return.
The customer base is mostly survivor players that's correct, I never claimed otherwise, but that doesn't prevent killers from being the loudest voices on the forums. You didn't read what I said either. Even when a single survivor shares an opinion on the forums, at least 10 killers come to tell them how wrong they are.
DbD is killer sided in every skill level besides the highest MMR with a swf in play. Killers can make 10 times more mistakes and still win, and survivors need to have a massive amount of game sense to even get their chances of survival to 40%. If they truly were targeting the majority of players (survivors), killer would have a max kill rate of 50%.That's not the case. They want killers pushing 3 kills a match with 60%, and that is a fact.
Your hours essentially mean nothing because I cannot deduce your skill from that, if that's what you were trying to do. Hours can really only show how long you've been playing. People can have 10k hours in league of legends and still be stuck in bronze 4. Using those hours effectively is what makes a good player. Anyone can achieve 4k hours, but not everyone wants to put in the effort to improve. I'm not saying that to discredit you, just that saying "I have X hours" without any context doesn't help illustrate your skill level.
-
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I don't think the forum or BHVR are killer sided, survivors are the majority of the player base/customers in this game.
Sorry but as a survivor main myself I have to say boons needed nerfing, flashlights take far less skill than ever, some loops are now too weak for sure but too many strong loops will link into each other and medkits allowing up to 3 fast heals for a single survivor was absolutely crazy. Honestly survivors needed a nerf but some problems have come with that. Flashbangs and flashlights combined with BGP SWF's is just plain broken.
Anti loop killers are not fun, stacking 3-4 slowdowns is not fun (though I understand why some resort to this). I do think tunnelling is too easy and rewards killers too much. Killers can and always will be able to take matches in a very negative direction should they choose to play in an unfun way. There more strategies become a negative problem, the more measures like anti-camp will be introduced.
What is the incentive to stay in matches like that? Well in all honesty I personally feel when someone is that desperate to win I would rather move on to the next match as my incentive is fun and a sweating tunnelling/camping killer is not fun.
How are the forums not killer sided when almost every new thread is "As killer, X" or "survivors have too much Y." On top of that, when anyone has an opinion that would favor survivor, at least 10 killer mains come out of the woodwork to shoot it down. That's about as killer sided as you can get while still allowing survivor players on the forums.
Boons are not OP lol.
-
@MechWarrior3 said:
I get so much anxiety when I am about to play killer. I hate and I don’t even know why I get so nervous. I have over 2k hours in killer but I still get nervous as all get out and I wish I didn’t.
Any suggestions? I know it’s silly and it is, truly. I’m trying to work on it, but I also love playing killer so much.
I know this is going to sound like a platitude, but I mean it with all sincerity: just have fun playing.
This is one of those games where it is very easy to tie your ego and mood to whether or not you win or lose. If you want to try and run a funny build? Do it. Want to try a killer you're unfamiliar with? Do it. Winning or losing doesn't make you any more or less of a person.
I believe otz said this in his video about securing kills as killer, but I'm paraphrasing: "you will not 4k every game as killer. If you are looking to win every game do not play this game. Do not think you can't be a good player unless you 4k every match."
Now if you'd like to improve your gameplay, be sure to be mentally present and recognize your mistakes, but don't dwell over them. Everyone makes mistakes, and part of the fun is improving to the best of your own unique ability. Decouple winning from being good or even decent at the game. Even the best players lose.
And of course, if you're ever not enjoying your time, take a break and let yourself cool off from the game. You'll come back feeling better and more focused.
Have fun!
-
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701450#Comment_3701450
They were attempting to make an argument based on arguments I had not made, in other words a strawman.
I don't hold a double standard here as I see faults on both sides, I am not making a one sided argument.
You clearly don't play killer if you think this is a killer skill issue, BGP can put you in situations where you literally cannot pick up and the only out is the survivors screwing up the timing, which they admittedly do.
That is not what they were doing. They made a tongue-in-cheek comment about how killers would react to survivors complaining about an issue similar regarding running a perk to counter it. That's pointing out a double standard. If they would have said "you (specifically) don't care about the survivor experience at all" that would have been a strawman. It is simplifying your argument, and by doing so, can be extended to looping, tunneling, camping, etc. Do you see how that is different than "Funny now it's unfair. Back then killers were fine telling a survivor to run x perk?" They never said anything about what you thought or changed any argument. They are introducing the nuance to the discussion about if the shoe was on the other foot.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701559#Comment_3701559
The flashbang takes about a second to explode. If you factor in that the killer actually has to look away from the flashbang too, 2.5 seconds is pretty reasonable. Let's say you play on a high DPI though, so you can move your camera even quicker and make it 0.3 seconds. Just to give you a bit of ground here. Then you have 3.3 seconds - 1 second = 2.3 seconds. This is faster than a console player will be able to move their camera but for the sake of this argument we consider a pc player.
That's still 18.4 metres of distance you cover during that time. So my previous calulation would still be very accurate. See how that goes? I chose numbers that favor you and it's still not working, while you chose numbers that heavily favored your own point even though you admitted, that you don't know the exact time. This only shows me that you are willing to hold onto your opinion no matter the facts. Even if I were to magically summon a spreadsheet with proof, you would still not be willing to admit you're wrong.
On that basis, I am no longer willing to discuss this with you because it leads nowhere. I am willing to admit when I have been proven wrong (like about Skull Merchant) but it seems the same cannot be said for you, so I honestly don't think this exchange is of any value.
No, you are wrong on all accounts.
If you use flashbang too early, the killer is still within the pickup animation and will not be affected. It MUST be thrown between 1 and 1.5 seconds of the killer's pickup animation depending on ping. Also, unless you're playing on 5 dpi, a simple mouse flick is more than enough (less than .1 seconds), so there is essentially no camera move time.
This is the second time you are "no longer willing to discuss" the topic of flashbang + background player because the facts simply aren't on your side. There are youtube videos, steam guides, and more showing how to correctly time a flashbang save, and they are all between 1 and 1.5 seconds of the killer's animation starting. I am more than willing to admit when I am wrong when there is proof that disproves the facts that I am presenting. You are simply ignoring what the proven facts are because you don't like them, which isn't helping this discussion at all.
-
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701559#Comment_3701559
I would like the resolution of this cosmic mathematical debate. What is the right time? I NEED THISSSssss…..!
I've mostly heard between 1 and 1.5 seconds depending on ping and the flashlight grace period, which I will apply to flashbang for the worst case scenario. Realistically, it is closer to 1 second, which would mean between 8 and 12 meters and not 12 meters radius. In practice, 10 meters is more likely the correct radius in which a survivor can make the play.
However, the right time is… insert famous doctor who quote here.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701530#Comment_3701530
You might want to check the math because this is wrong. A survivor with Background Player moves at 8 m/s. The pick up animation takes 3 seconds. In 2.6 seconds, the killer covers roughly 12 metres of distance. A survivor with Background Player does that in 1.5 seconds. So they still have 1.5 seconds left to get the save which is more than even the time window you have a for save.
If that is the strategy to go for then you need to account for roughly 2.5 seconds of BGP which is 20 metres of distance and about 4.3 seconds to walk for the killer. The diameter of a circle with this range is 40 metres. This is 2/3 of a Midwich corridor. Do you have any idea how large that area is? I mean, that's enough for a 3gen. You cannot seriously think that this is fine and if you do, then I don't know what game you've been playing. I mean, even as you patrol that area, you give another survivor time to actually come close enough for a BGP + flashbang safe.
This is ridiculous.
You can only get the flashbang save between 1 and 1.5 seconds of the pickup animation. 1.5 seconds being the longer time means 1.5 seconds * 8 m/s = 12 meters. If you took off lightborn and played the game without it, you would know that flashlights and flashbangs do not immediately get the save the second you click them into action.
You're well within your right to question my math, but before you go disproving it, I suggest you actually know what figures you're talking about because you would arrive at the same conclusion I did. I don't know what version of dbd you're playing where flashlights are instant, because that has been patched out of the game for the past 4 years now.
-
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
lol here's a hot take: Killers staring at walls has no counterplay. Now there is one.
A counter that requires:
1) 45 seconds minimum on a generator for each use
2) No exhaustion status applied despite the plethora of perks and addons that apply it
3) 2 perk slots that don't guarantee success
All that to counter looking at a wall. Let that sink in, it's getting cold outside. -
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701494#Comment_3701494
If you are not slugging in situations that would benefit you, i.e. free health state, game ending play, survivor rescue imminent, that is a skill issue.
Got it. Now I'll just start slugging everyone ever single game with no exception because I can't know who has and hasn't BGP. Does that sound reasonable to you? Or even fun to play against for that matter? I assure you, if I want all of you on the ground, I have my ways. It includes Knock Out and probably 1 or 2 survivors dead from bleeding out. But that's the only kind of slugging that works as prevention.
No amount of game sense will hold the person with a flashbang + BGP back from running halfway across the map, glitching themself into the killer and getting the save. Let's not pretend here. That person does not need to be right next to the killer when they pick up. That's what BGP is for.
But of course I could be wrong about all of this. So I ask you: How? How do you actually counter flashbangs + BGP? Staring at a wall doesn't work thanks to a glitch. Chasing them away doesn't work either because they are nowhere near you and even then you need the down because they could return and still get the save. Lightborn doesn't work because it can be circumvented and I've already seen my share of survivors doing just that. So how do I counter it? Step by step, please. Because it seems that many of us could really learn from you.
You can only get a flashbang save from 12 meters away with background player. I have said this in both threads recently that this discussion has occurred in the past week. Slugging in the way you are hyperbolically suggesting is not how a good player would play.
If you are making an entire build centered around denying a flashbang + background player play when all you have to do is be aware of your close surroundings and go after a survivor if they are close by, that is 100% a skill issue.
Here is your step by step guide:
1) Hop into a game vs bots as your favorite killer
2) Press W and hold for roughly 2.6 seconds (115% killers only)
3) Draw a mental circle around where you are, where the radius is where you started the 2.6 seconds prior
4) Realize that's how small of an area you have to quickly check by panning your camera or walking around any line of sight blockers in order to successfully counter a flashbang + background player play
5) If you see another survivor in that area, chase them and hopefully get a hit. If they are ever farther than the radius you memorized earlier, it is safe to pick up as that specific survivor won't be able to get the save. If there are multiple people going for the save and there are still a good amount of gens remaining, realize you've won the game because most of the survivors are not doing gens and you have effectively stalled the game. -
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701482#Comment_3701482
That's not the point. We're talking about something that can only be countered by either using Lightborn or slugging. Because Lightborn is the only option as far as perks go, you could say that it kind of becomes a must-have, which puts in the same spot that BT was pre 6.1.0. However, Lightborn base kit is not an option. So we'll need a different solution for this mess.
The point of me bringing up base kit adjustments for survivors was not to say that survivors got so many things (though compared to pre 6.1.0, the survivor role has a few more toys as well) but to counter @Aven_Fallen's argument, that you just have to bring Lightborn every match because BT was in the same position and became base kit for that very reason.
If you are not slugging in situations that would benefit you, i.e. free health state, game ending play, survivor rescue imminent, that is a skill issue.
As sad as it is to admit, knowing when to slug is a skill. Saying lightborn is a "must have" could not be further from the truth. There's a reason lightborn is never seen in high rank gameplay, and it's not always because the killer wants to run 4 slowdown perks. It's because the killer has the skill and knowledge to render lightborn useless in 99% of cases.
The "solution for this mess" already exists: increase your game sense and be mentally present in all the trials you play in.
-
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701327#Comment_3701327
Not throwing around anything, I point out issues on both sides so it was indeed an attempt to strawman me. No double standards were coming from me.
Oh and no, it isn't a killer skill issue regarding flashbang pickups, the timing is ENTIRELY on the survivor not the killer. Killer is locked in animation and has no control once that animation starts.
I again will urge you to actually look up the definition of a strawman, because based on that response, you still don't know what it means. Also the person who responded to you was pointing out a double standard in the community based on the situation you described, it doesn't mean you necessarily hold to it.
If the Killer is picking up in a lose-lose situation, that is a skill issue. Flashbang plays have to be done within 12 meters of a pickup, flashlights require you to be even closer in most cases. A killer can see scratch marks or hear running from that distance very easily. It is a skill issue if the Killer suspects the other side to make a play, and not adjust their strategy accordingly.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701155#Comment_3701155
"and having to constantly run a perk to counter broken mechanics or perks like BGP feels kinda unfair."
Funny, now it is unfair. Back then it was common practice to tell Survivors to "just run Perk X" if there were any complaints.
@Topic:
I almost never get blinded, neither by Flashbangs nor by Flashlights. With and without Background Player. The past two weeks it happened once and yes, I dont think it should have happened. But I highly doubt it happens that often to those people who complain about it, because I doubt that I am the exception of the rule.
When playing Survivor I also see a good amount of people just failing their attempts with Background Player or Flashbangs.But the forum once again acts like they get robbed of 10 Hooks each game due to Background Player and/or Flashlights/Flashbangs.
You hit the nail on the head.
Also killers fearing Background Player and flashbang 60 seconds in the trial when it's extremely improbable to be in play that early without items (surv needs to be on a gen since the second the trial started and has 15 seconds to collect the flashbang and run to the killer). They aren't just making a mountain out of a molehill, they're turning it into mount everest.
-
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701159#Comment_3701159
I don't recall telling survivors to run any perk to counter broken killer perks/mechanics. So not sure who you are attempting to strawman there.
Besides that, I am a survivor main myself but I try to call out things that are broken on either side and BGP combined with flashbangs and flashlights has no counter other than Lightborn.
If you down a survivor in the open away from any walls and there are BGP gamers in the match, you actually cannot pick them up if you don't have LB and that does seem unfair to me.
Perhaps the only moderate counter is to hard tunnel out anyone who runs BGP
Don't throw around logical fallacy buzzwords in an attempt to shutdown a discussion without knowing what they actually mean.
They're simply pointing out a double standard which still to this day happens. Prove thyself was thrown around very frequently for gen regression perks, distortion is thrown around for aura perks, and (don't get me started on this absurd one) calm spirit was thrown around for ultimate weapon. Just because you can't remember them doesn't mean they don't exist.
It is a skill issue if a killer can't pick up a survivor when background player and flashbang are in play.
-
@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699531#Comment_3699531
You were the one pretty much saying a killer may not complain about BGP+FB when they run 4 slowdown.
Pointing out a double-standard is not the same as what you're suggesting I was doing.