Valik
Valik
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I think a lot of people here are missing the point.
In Otzdarva's latest video - he talks about his time playing Saduko.
He was so miserable and felt so helpless that he said that he may look into 'different kinds of content' in the future.
That's how soul crushing playing killer is.
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The devs don't listen. On rare occasion what they want to do coincides with what they need to do.
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You actually need to anticipate its use and time its execution correctly - requiring a certain air of prediction as well as judgement.
You need to anticipate Sprint Burst and Balanced Landing, and you need judgement to correctly use Dead Hard and Lithe.
Hiding in a locker and popping out at the perfect time requires a lot more skill than pressing E - or not pressing anything because the perk just sort of does its thing.
I know they are technically exhaustion perks, but I don't even count Overcome or Smash Hit in the competition. They are both completely braindead.
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It's not an instant win - you gotta use it at the right time, and you need to know when it can be used.
I've seen people Dead-Hard into a wall - seemingly going nowhere, but timing it perfectly to get the I-frames to avoid a Huntress Hatchet - which sailed right through them
At the same time though, it isn't rocket science.
Bad guy about to hit, press the 'no hit me' button.
Oh no! I need just a little more distance because am in trouble! Press the 'free distance' button.
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@StarLost said:
I'll avoid the obvious ones, as other people will talk about them.
On killer, I honestly can't think of many that are too strong, but plenty that are too weak. Predator, MS, TI etc.
NOED might need a look, but I could go either way on that perk.
Survivor:
Spine Chill. Should not work on undetectable. It's ridiculous how two entire killers (GF, Myers) get hard countered by a common perk.
Iron Will. Stridor should counter this better.
Boil Over. This perk just needs to be replaced with something else entirely. It's not good, but is just annoying to play against.
Boons. Not in the way you're thinking, but more that they blind counter a perk a lot of people were excited about (Pentimento) like nobody's business. You should be able to Penti boons after you snuff them.
Also a lot of useless perks that need reworking though.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2888831#Comment_2888831
Interesting.
Why would you say BT is problematic?
Ruin is another odd pick - it's certainly powerful, but it's also very fragile.
The major problem with Borrowed Time is the lack of drawbacks and the general lack of counterplay. Survivors do not need to use consideration or discretion - and it can be spammed to disgusting effect. Smack a 60 second cooldown on it, and it suddenly becomes much more balanced. Cause it to exhaust survivors and it suddenly forces them to be considerate as it competes for the precious 'exhaustion perk' slot. Or, perhaps, you could turn it around so it's a selfish perk - which only effects those who take it, making it just as potent without having the ability to act like a runaway train.
Ruin is fickle, but it's way too strong.
An easy way you can go about making it just a little less oppressive, a little more synergetic, and a little nerfed as an information perk - you can slap a 3-5 second delay on its activation.
You know what I mean, though
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@Ashendale said:
I agree that Whispers is a bit niche, since I only use it on The Doctor as a cue for when to Static Blast.
If it were going to be reworked, I'd like to see something where the more the killer acted on the whispers, the clearer they became.
Perhaps start with a normal 360-degree radius, but when a certain event triggered, chop like 5/10/15 degrees out of the radius, starting directly behind the killer, cap it at like 3-5 stacks.
Creative! I love it!
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2888725#Comment_2888725
I can do it with 2 hatchets on Huntress, just gotta lead the target a bit with the 2nd one. In fact I've done that several times, hell even on my main shocky boi, if I catch you in the open, you're toast. Yeah, you may just make a pallet, meanwhile I'm right behind you building bloodlust, and unless you used DH to get there, am about to get the first speed boost from it.
Blight can as well, while there is a speed boost, it's not so significant that a ranged or high mobility killer can't allow for it. And aura reading isn't something that is only available on nurse.
I Will agree though, trapper and hag are both virtually useless unless their traps are triggered, but again I hardly see that as evidence of an issue with the nurse.
Reliably.
And no, I'm sorry, but especially in the midwich example, you cannot do this with another killer.
Again, you are literally trying to make-believe away that the Nurse has, quantifiably, the most powerful ability in the game - which circumvents the conventional utilities of a trial.
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It's all over the place.
They really need to make a standardized model. Make it so that rarity tiers have fixed prices.
It would also make it a lot better for the portfolio and attracting licenses - knowing that there's little competition between tiers.
Then all you have to do is tier the item appropriate to its desired cost.
I'd rather see cool cosmetics in the 'yellow' tier garbage bin than seeing a bunch of mismatched and seemingly random price tags.
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Let them disconnect.
Only TRUE survivors get gud
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Creative! I like the concept!
Having it be a removable feature that exposes survivors and gives a rush of speed isn't a bad idea at all.
It may need some work, but the creativity is welcome!
It's also a lot more eloquent than my personal idea for a rework:
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A hex rooting its power in hope. You lash out with the power of this curse to stop survivors who are on the brink of escape to drag them back into the dark.
Start the trial with 2 tokens.
Gain an additional token for each time a survivor is restored to the Injured state from the Dying state up to a maximum of 12.
When the exit gates are powered, no longer gain tokens - and a random dull totem becomes a Hex totem.
Attacks consume a token. All survivors are exposed while tokens remain.
For each survivor put into the Dying state while this hex is active, gain 1/1.5/2% movement speed.
Once all tokens are depleted, gain an additional 1/1.5/2% movement speed.
“And the beast suddenly became so much more powerful – as if it was holding back the entire time.”
~
It's important to balance the movement speed as well as the exposure.
More than this, it's always good to try and encourage survivors to play the way you want them to by tricking them into things with a reward.
While my version of the perk is designed to encourage killers to give survivors a chance to heal rather than hook and tunnel, yours has a different strength to it.
Your version of the perk encourages survivors to cleanse totems quickly. Instead of it becoming a late game threat, it becomes an early game threat. By the settings you placed into it, the perk naturally throttles with a maximum down rate. 5 downs maximum - if lucky. It turns it into a momentum perk that forces survivors to stop doing generators and start looking for totems.
Perhaps a bit strong. But creative ideas are always fun to discuss in an open forum!
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110% not.
The majority of matches are not the killer's to win, but the survivor's to lose.
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Short answer:
Because the developers have very, very funny ideas of what constitutes as a balanced mechanic.
You, me, and everyone who plays the game for any moderate amount of time may be able to point out that this mechanic would be MUCH better and MUCH healthier if snuffing a totem broke it and removed that instance of the perk from the match. However, developers do not see the game through the screen - they see it through numbers, charts, and board meetings. They do not have a firm grasp on what needs to be done or why it needs to be done.
I'm sure a lot of developers in Behavior are incredibly creative and hyper talented. But their bosses have very... colorful interpretations of what constitutes a quality of life choice.
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@PerfectlyPink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2888903#Comment_2888903
You're overreacting. 16 meters is only like... about one fifth of a football field.
A good way to visualize distance in DbD is to remember that the Killer Shack is 8 meters across!
16 meters is 2 shacks side by side, and 32 is 4 shacks side by side!
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@Nos37 said:
The devs mentioned in a Q&A years back that they were looking at Whispers. They were tossing around the idea of its range getting weaker as survivors died off, giving the last remaining survivor a fair shot instead of the killer knowing which gate to guard.
They could also have it powered by generators or something of that sort too!
I wish we got an update sometime :)
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@MrPenguin said:
- No I play both sides, this wont do anything but make things worse. Its already been proven. But I'm starting to understand you're a survivor main with no regards to killers at all.
- You clearly have no reading comprehension.
- I don't camp period, including proxy camp because that boring af. But sure, go to personal insults because you're arguments are trash.
You've already been proven wrong by irl events, not some on paper shenanigans. I already won this argument before it began, you're just in denial at this point. Stay ignorant then 🤷
Enters conversation
Proves self wrong several times
Argues that the game is unplayable outside of camping
Constantly shifts their own goal posts
Refuses to elaborate
Pretends to have won
Yet another casualty of the public education system.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Yeah, a big "No" on not counting Survivors hooked or in dying State. This would just be another excuse for Killers to camp. "But Whispers was on, so I stayed there!". There is a reason why it also activates on hooked Survivors.
I dont get the thing with the chase. When I am in Chase, I dont hear Whispers at all. (But for me, Whispers is mostly visual feedback, I dont really hear the Whispers that much, but look at the Icon)
In general, it is one of the best Tracking Perks in the game, if not THE best Tracking Perk.
@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2888899#Comment_2888899
So killers can just have yet another excuse to not move an inch from a hooked survivor?
If whispers is not activated when a survivor is hooked - it gives distinct reasoning for them to leave that hook.
If a killer sees whispers near a hook regardless - they are prone to paranoia, to search out the area and camp harder.
The only time the perk will be active is if another survivor is nearby the entire time the perk is active during the walk to the hook - as the perk is not active from the moment a survivor is down.
One of the reasons I suggested this in the forum, though, is to learn what people thought of it and what they may do to change it.
Do you think more people will camp the hook if they do not see the perk active when downing and hooking a survivor - or if they only see the perk activate at certain points in time?
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That's playing against teams for you!
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Too strong. Her vomit is one of the most powerful abilities in the game - it can be argued by many to be the strongest.
Having to walk over to a pool to collect her power is more than balanced enough, especially because survivors already had to spend time cleansing at it in the first place. It's only fair.
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Demo and Pyramid Head for me! Always a joy.
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@DyingWish92 said:
Watched streamer use him on the PTB and it seems like he gets revealed easily from far away and everywhere. This was the main reason I never really used him that much to begin with. That's really disappointing if that's the case, it'll feel like a nerf tbh.
He does, they made it so that it calculates how much of his body mass is in the middle of the screen rather than making it so that the center must be precisely on his figure.
They also made it that he loses the 'being revealed' process slowly. It doesn't reset to 0 when he avoids detection.
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You got the OP perks:
Dead Hard, Borrowed Time | Ruin, NOED.
But you also have the lame perks:
Sole Survivor, Solidarity | Predator, Monstrous Shrine
Really, most (if not all) perks should be reworked. I think everyone has ideas. Don't know why Behavior hasn't spent more time on the endeavor.
Let me know if you want insights into what perks should be reworked and why, I have an idea for each one.
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I really don't know what the devs were thinking.
'This is a map presence killer that hops out to chase survivors, if she does this enough, she can get a free kill!'
- She has relatively poor map presence as the TVs are unreliable, and survivors have the option to disable it if they so see fit. (Although they scarcely have to) the animation is more than long enough to let survivors flee to safety before a chase can be effectuated. It is not supremely useful to pressure survivors or objectives to a reliable degree. Even in videos of good players, they are often refusing to teleport unless they MUST - typically saving them to cut off gyms while in the middle of chase. Having to swap stances to use the TVs looks clunky. You gave the killer map presence but threw survivors a bone by making it obvious with a long cooldown
'we will make her a stealth killer that can sneak up on survivors!'
- Her lullaby is loud and large, everyone knows when she's coming regardless. It's all but completely useless as a stealth approach against astute survivors and veterans. Using the ability in loop doesn't even have a *massive* speed boost like Wraith. You gave the killer stealth but had to throw survivors a bone by giving her a lullaby and only phasing.
'She can passively stack charges to KILL survivors with her own mind!'
- Not only impractical, but also bad core design philosophy. If it's just a little strong, survivors will have a bad time - just a little weak, there's no reason to play the killer. Not only is it incredibly unlikely for this to stack, but survivors also have an easy out with the tape. You gave her lethality but had to throw survivors a bone to avoid its effects before they are a concern.
At each turn, they undid what made Saduko special until only this husk remained.
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They not only need a rework, they need new skins and new music choices that can be swapped out with the other skins.
Behavior is allergic to money and success.
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Yes.
Although, No Mither's slug power is NOT intended to be a slug buff. It is literally a gun that basically tells every killer 'you better pick me up'
When you run No Mither, no killer is going to leave you on the ground - they will always pick up.
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This is how Behavior does things.
My wife calls it 'Renekton design'
You see, in League Of Legends, there's a champion named Renekton.
The way he was designed was very bad. If his numbers were tweaked just a tiny bit (Literally, like 1% or so) he would climb to become the strongest pick in the game. He would become an unstoppable force that could snowball quickly and be a terror from low elo to the pro games.
BUT - make him have 1% less damage, and he's completely unusable - his trades are horrendous and he gets constantly bullied by his matchups.
The problem isn't the numbers, it's bad design philosophy. Until the team goes back and redesigns the guys of his utility and the approach to his power - he will remain like this. His kit is in a place where if his numbers are at a certain point, he becomes an unstoppable pain to play against. Meanwhile, if his numbers aren't quite there... he's not even worth considering.
it's an awkward place born of misguided design choices back during his development.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2888603#Comment_2888603
In an open field, survivors are pretty much screwed no matter who the killer is. I mean, there's a reason all the walls and jungle gyms exist. The idea that nurse is somehow overpowered because she, like every other killer, has an advantage when the survivor is out of position like that is more than a little ridiculous
No other killer can cross an open field, hit a survivor, then re-acquire them with a final hit within the span of 5-6 seconds.
Even other high mobility killers such as Blight or spirit cannot boast this. Trap based killers such as Trapper or Hag can only in very specific circumstances where their traps are triggered.
Getting hit by a killer in the open gives you a speed boost - which gives you distance. Even if the killer closes it, you can make it to a jungle gym. But not if they teleport behind you and unsheathe katana while whispering 'Nothing personnel, Entity."
The point is not at all about positioning - but also, in truth, she can reliably accomplish this with minor assistance.
Hit someone by the stairs in Midwich, hear them go upstairs - see their aura perhaps. Nothing they can do. Normal killers would need significant foresight, luck, preparation, or blind coincidence to have them run into a trap or next to a generator you're teleporting to as Demo-dog or Freddy.
Nurse, you just look up and press the button for 1.5 seconds to be on top of them again.
You accuse me of straw manning, but you're intentionally ignoring the raw power of the Nurse's skill to try and prove a point.
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That walk into that drop - I can't get enough.
Also, Frank's Mix tape falls out of sync during the double kick at 7:22 ? Or is that just me?
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2886766#Comment_2886766
"Once the killer sees that Camaraderie is activated"
If they know its in play sure, killers don't get told what perks the survivor has unless it affect them directly, like a DS stun. This affects the survivors timer, not the killer. Most players won't even notice or by the time they do it'll be to late to change anything.
"'hey - if I sit around, I'm wasting my time, and the survivors are going to win the game anyway.'"
Right, and give another survivor on a nearby gen an easy save immediately. Bad for the killer regardless. Both options are bad Like I said.
" the killer only needs to step out of a 16 meter radius to counter this perk"
Then the perk is useless and killers will just camp from 16 meters now, defeating the point. You make the 16 bigger, well now the killer cant contest saves because they're too far, survivors get free unhooks.
"The situation, as you described it, should never have been a face-camping situation."
Well it was, sorry to tell you. You can't give survivors more time on gens. Other solutions have the potential to work, not that one. You're rewarding the survivors by letting their teammate get camped, defeating the point of trying to save them.
" Face-camping in these situations is the absolute worst idea regardless"
Yup, and giving a free save is also a bad idea, again they were both bad options. You're putting the killer in a lose-lose.
1.) Yes I mentioned those perks that reward not camping. Al those perks you mentioned are exactly the problem perks that many complain about. they're there to fix problems that should be fixed at base on both sides. Survivors are tired of running them, killer's are tired of getting punished for playing the efficient way when the alternative, 12 hook games, are just asking to lose. Make the reward for not camping make 12 hook games viable, your change doesn't do that at all you're just nerfing killers when we need to go the other direction.
"Your job as a survivor is not to give positive reinforcement to the killer - it is your job to threaten them with powerful perks until they learn the right way."
Well both of those aren't the survivors job. I don't think the role labeled "survivor" should be threatening the one called "killer" lol. Its the devs job to push the killers in a more positive direction, not the players.
2.) Yes camaraderie does but its also restricted to only the struggle phase and its actually run in tournament play for the very reason I mentioned, more time on gens. It doesn't need to and shouldn't be stronger. DS does make you get tunneled longer, people do take it to help their own chances of survival sure, but at least you get to interact with the game with it. BT's mend is a lot shorter than spending 60 seconds on a hook for a hook state, so its the better option. Unbreakable is better than sitting on the floor. These are all meta perks and commonly complained about such as "the survivors have too many second chances", which is true imo.
3.) Yes players who want to facecamp no matter what will do so, but this change will not change that either. What we can change is the players who camp just because its effective, by making it no longer a better strategy than trying to hook everybody 3 times. As I said "We just need something basekit that's substantial enough to make not camping a much stronger option." this doesn't do that, it just makes camping weaker. Killers will just lose more and survivor ques will get even worse than they already are.
While you are right that this change will entice players away by punishing them, those weren't my words, the transcript is right there.
"reward killers for not camping with some kind of buff" not "punish killers for camping with a nerf". Both are enticements, both are very different directions to go in.
I mean if you just want to nerf killer's across the board then sure, this would be a great change. I don't think that's a good idea, but its your proposal not mine.
Yeah, I was imagining it would reveal its use similar to Coulrophobia or something of that effect. It wouldn't do much good if the killer didn't know it existed.
If there's a survivor on a nearby generator - your priority is to chase them. You should not be leaving the area for no reason - but if there is a survivor on a nearby generator, then the perk doesn't activate. And if you go to chase that other survivor away - you won't be in the smaller radius to begin with. Your 'lose lose' situation confuses me, because it doesn't exist practically
16 meters is plenty of space for survivors to close the distance and make a save. Besides, the complaints are not about proxy camping - which is a legitimate strategy at times, but about FACE camping. If a killer is already 'camping' 16 meters away, they might as well contest what's in a 16 meter radius. If you get the campers to stand 16 meters away. You already are already in a much better situation.
You're trolling, right? You just proved yourself wrong in the same sentence you made your thesis. If survivors no longer have a desire to save their teammate because they are being face-camped, they should already feel that way in the first place. This perk is doing nothing in that regard that Kindred does not already do.
If you think that walking away from a hook that has no other survivors nearby is a 'lose lose' you need more experience playing killer. Perhaps watch some streamers? Ask some questions in chat?
1.) Okay, I think I'm starting to understand. You're a killer main - and you don't understand how to play well, so you are frustrated. You think that camping is a core strategy. Got it.
2.) Oh! Thank you! You see, I was terribly worried you'd go on some silly statement about how wrong I was - but I'm glad that you agree that I'm correct. Not sure why you chose to walk back your original statement and confirm that MORE hook time is beneficial enough to warrant tournament play - but yet, for some reason, you seem to argue that turning a 120 second hook into a 200 second hook (adding 80 seconds to your total hook time) is in some way a BAD idea for survivors. Ingenious.
3.) You're a face camping killer. We get it. You're upset because if this change was implemented, you'd have to learn how to actually play the game. We get it. Truth is, you're going to have to learn sometime. I'm sorry if making the game healthier makes it 'a nerf for killers' in your eyes, but truth be told - killers that camp already are nerfed. You're shooting yourself in the leg and crying that it has to be amputated. If you don't want anti-camping perks to 'nerf' your playstyle. Get a new playstyle, or get out of the game. Self-proclaimed face-campers that are confirmed to NOT be defending the hook and NOT contesting a hook are NOT the kinds of players that are appreciated. You, sir, give good killers a bad name.
It's one thing to disagree with the perk from a professional or design point of view, but if all you have to your argument is "I'm an unskilled face-camper, and such a perk would be deleterious to my playstyle!" then congrats - you've made the argument that this is the BEST perk to discourage such players.
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He's fun to play, has a good mechanic, looks amazing, matches the aesthetic perfectly.
All around, he's the perfect Jason wannabe that we needed for a game like this!
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Everyone else has some sort of faculty that makes them stand out as survivors. Jake is literally a wilderness hermit, Claudette is a determined botanist, Meg is a peppy athlete, but why is Dwght - the dorky desk jockey part of the group?
He's just a bit more endearing while also showing that survival is more than having raw skills, survival know-how, and grit. Dwight survives because he's got the HEART of a survivor - and is quick to instill others with his ambition.
He's the perfect mixture of coward and hero that we all need and love.
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We will see how these changes take effect. I fear that they were buffs in the wrong direction, but they may be the healthiest thing for their design since sliced bread.
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@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2886716#Comment_2886716
Teleporting across a field and smacking a survivor - then doing it again to get a down in 5 seconds is NOT satisfying, it's garbage design.
And there is the straw man. It's not so simple to teleport across a field and smack a survivor. You need to be within range, be able to guess where the survivor will be after you land the blink, turn to face the correct orientation and then try to get the hit off... with a huge penalty if you miscalculate any aspect of this.
It's incredibly satisfying when you do it right. And usually if you've done it right, it's because the survivor allowed it to happen by being completely predictable.
Nurse can be juked. It's just that most people cba learning how, and they'd rather Nurse be gone than to up their level of skill.
I never said it's every time - and in my example, I clearly used a field.
In an open field, survivors are very, very easy to blink to.
The point of my statement was not to suggest that this was EVERY blink or EVERY instance. But going from healthy to downed just because you happen to be in the open and don't have 'easy outs' like Dead Hard is never satisfying.
And even when I play her, yeah - sometimes it's nice to make dirtbag survivors eat those flashy clicks from earlier. But hopping on someone while they can't do anything - taking them down in under 10 seconds... it feels scummy.
Scummy thing is my opinion.
But the fact that the nurse can reliably execute such feats is what makes it less satisfying and more annoying on both sides.
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Over 200 views on this one and only 9 votes?
C'mon people!
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I firmly believe that the surveys are not requested, drafted, or published by the same people who digest the data and implement the changes.
The problem lies with the morons in Data and Analytics. Behavior has some of the worst analytic teams I have ever seen ever bar none. They come to the exact wrong conclusions based off of loose data - stuff that would get you to flunk out of Statistics.
And their Dev team tends to be short sighted and stubborn on all the wrong cases. They will slave away for years to try and make MMR viable, make attractive archives, and will work endlessly to try and bring those new animations and little icons that NOBODY asked for.
What, you want perks to be balanced? You want Matchmaking to be sensible? No. We like our ideas.
The reason boon totems aren't getting reworked is because some BAD director over there has the WRONG vision - and instead of being humble and taking the hint, or looking at data that shows the poor direction his choice is leading the product to, they're double and tripling down on the bad idea.
Is Boon: Circle Of Healing too powerful? Yes or No?
Yes? Well I guess we will tweak the numbers.
It was the boss' wife's idea, you see, so we aren't going to change the mechanics to make it healthy or anything.
Also, one of our statisticians said that survivors that bring OP perks like old Object Of Obsession were tunneled more frequently, which means it MUST be balanced!
Genius.
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They don't need to kill it - just change a little of the layout to make it less... bad.
Library floor isn't bad. It just needs to NOT have totem or hook spawns up there, and have that vault moved back with a break halfway through (over the pallet area) which would make chases up there interesting, but not bard-pulling levels of frustration.
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An unmitigated flop, yes.
Coming out of 4th quarter 2022 with some of the worst player numbers in DbD history and a bitter community, the launch was botched as the devs did their best to inspire hype WAY too far out from launch, which kneecapped the DLC's hype by spreading it out for a couple of months.
That and the PTB was lackluster. A total bomb. Saduko had interesting concepts, but she didn't have the sex appeal of the Trickster, the practicality of the Artist, or the "REEEEEEE" of Twins. Saduko was just a B- killer from the get-go. All the perks introduced were... interesting... but even on paper, they were completely impractical.
I noticed during the PTB a lot of people swore off of the DLC. Watching streamers was like watching a bad review. It made the entire experience less appealing.
That - and all the people still mad about bad MMR and Boon totems not being fixed. I'm sure a lot of community members felt like holding onto their money until the game was worth coming back to.
If you look at the steam numbers - Resident Evil SKYROCKETED the DbD franchise into the mainstream and boosted the player count. The Hellraiser DLC helped maintain that momentum. But the MMR rollout and Makayla Reid came out and stomped the player base down by wholesale partitions. Ringu should have made a bump - all major DLCs do. But Ringu was hardly a blip on the February charts - creating only a slight upward tick during the mid-week and keeping the numbers from continuing their gradual fall for a few days. Literally, handing out Bloodpoints and doing MMR overhaul tests was a more effective way of getting players excited than Ringu was.
@Thusly_Boned said:
I am still going against a lot of Sadakos, so not as much of a flop as the Artist, at least. And comparing Sadako Rising to RE and SH isn't apples to apples, as those two IPs are way bigger.
But the early announcement didn't help.
Somewhat agreed.
I see Sadukos from time to time - but it isn't anything like previously.
I was there Gandalf, I was there back in 2019.
I've witnessed the launch of the Plague, Ghostface, Demogorgon, Oni, Deathslinger, PPyramid Head, Blight, Big Girl and REE, K-Pop Man, Nemesis, PPin Head, and the Artist.
You know what they all had in common?
Launch week, they were ubiquitous. Each and every match was the NEW killer. Seeing any killer but the most recent one was a miracle. Even lackluster launches like Twins and Trickster - they were EVERYWHERE. Trickster was pretty poor performance at his launch, but it didn't keep him from being over 80% of the killers you'd play against for the first few days after launch. Nemesis dominated the game for weeks, and he's so fun that you STILL see him around.
Saduko, though, I only saw a handful of her during launch week. I saw more Plagues and Artists during her launch than I saw of HER. And for the weeks after - yes, I did see her more than killers like Demogorgon or Freddy - but for being the new kid on the block, it felt like she was 2 years old and forgotten already. I play all the time, even if I try not to; I can count on two hands how many times I played against her, and I'd still have enough fingers to make a little air guitar gesture.
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Please and thank you.
Enemies don't get gold and EXP for kills or anything - what does anyone have to lose?
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In the next update:
"Screw you all - we may not know how to balance our game, but you shouldn't be running away with it!
Circle Of Healing -0.25 healing.
It actually removes healing from your progress and slows you down.
Please stop running this perk.
Please stop, the executives don't even know what video games are and they're wondering about all the complaints.
And NO we are NOT doing FNAF DLCs!
Ugh - forget it all!
From now on, when you boon a totem - it injects a kill code and fries your computer!
JUST STOP USING IT SO MUCH!!!"
- ~Behavior Balance Team <3
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From what it looks like, Solidarity will be sapped by Hemorrhage. Your healing progress bar is drained whenever it is not actively being filled.
Syringe is like an invisible survivor healing up your healing progress bar while you do your thing. It is actively healing you, which means it should not at all be effected by this perk.
Solidarity and Resurgence will be stomped by this effect, though, as the healing granted by its effects will be sapped away slowly.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2884126#Comment_2884126
So basically, it put the killer in a lose-lose situation and actually made camping worse for the one being camped. I'll try to explain best I can.
Survivor A is on hook, survivor B will be around the hook, survivor C and D will be on gens. So as soon as the killer hooks, survivor B would be close enough that they can contest the save and the killer can see them, but not close enough to be an easy hit. The killer now either leaves the hook to chase, or tries to defend against the save.
If he chases, well that's an easy save for another survivor since they'll be away from the hook. If he stays the hook timer will be paused and the gens are still rolling. Survivor C and D have no pressure to go since the timer was paused, so they could work on gens freely until the situation changed. If the killer started to head in the direction of B but then turned around, well the timer would just pause again so B would just went back again as well and we're back to square 1. Survivors B, C, and D had no problem letting survivor A stay on hook the entire game so they could get the gens done free of pressure and get out. Maybe they'd go back during endgame to get A, and now the killer has 1 hook and that's it. Pretty much guaranteed 4E.
IIRC you could also loop around the general area of the hook and the timer would be paused the entire time as there either were no rules in place for the survivors position, just the killer, or it was less restrictive. Just to add to the shenanigans.
Survivor A was having an even worse time not being able to interact with the game for even longer, and the killer couldn't feasibly win because if they contested unhooks they got punished and obviously letting people get free saves isn't good either.
The lesson from the test was if you punish killers for camping, survivors will force that punishment to their advantage in any way they can. If you make the timer take longer, well that's just more gen time before we have to worry about the unhook and more time survivor A can't interact with the game. The alternative, to reward killers for not camping with some kind of buff or something, would be a much better system. Hence why there's killer perks that specifically require you to be away from the hooked survivor. We just need something basekit that's substantial enough to make not camping a much stronger option.
The situation you described is a perfect reason this perk works, though.
In the ABCD example here, it's a 3 man game with a hook. The killer knows this. Once the killer sees that Camaraderie is activated, they will know 'hey - if I sit around, I'm wasting my time, and the survivors are going to win the game anyway.'
If Survivor B is, as discussed earlier, 24 meters away from the hook - sitting there. Bam. Easy. Killer can leave the 24 meter radius and chase them. If there are multiple survivors waiting JUST outside of the 24 meter radius, the killer only needs to step out of a 16 meter radius to counter this perk. The killer can proxy easily enough, there's no reason they'd have to face camp after just seeing survivor B.
Especially with C and D doing generators - the killer cannot see any of them within a 24 meter radius - the hook is safe to leave. The situation, as you described it, should never have been a face-camping situation. Face-camping in these situations is the absolute worst idea regardless, because by the time the survivor dies - C and D will have finished 2 generators. If anyone in this example is at fault, it's survivor B - who should ALSO be on a generator.
There are three thing's I'd like to say about your conclusion.
1.) Killers already have MANY perks that offer buffs for not camping. Campers don't take these perks. Having a little 'camper's insurance' does not mean the killer should be buffed in order to give them 'positive reinforcement'. Your job as a survivor is not to give positive reinforcement to the killer - it is your job to threaten them with powerful perks until they learn the right way. Borrowed Time does not buff killers that target the unhooking survivor - it gives a hearty punishment for hitting the wrong one. Decisive Strike does not give killers warm and fuzzy feelings for killing other survivors, it is a smoking gun aimed at the killer's head if they dare try and tunnel a survivor out of the game. Unbreakable doesn't award the killer with bloodpoints when they pick survivors up, nor does it shower them with confetti if they go the entire trial without survivors laying on the floor for long - it screws over killers that don't hook. These three perks have done more to encourage healthy killer gameplay than any killer perk has ever done. Thanks to DS and BT - it's a lot rarer to see killers tunnel survivors off the hook. Thanks to Unbreakable and Soul Guard, slugging everyone is a lot more of a risk than ever before. If you want killers to play well - you can give them incentive enough. But the best way to eliminate the gameplay is by creating a threat powerful enough to potentially destroy the match for killers that refuse to learn their lessons.
2.) You say that nobody wants to wait on the hook longer. Camaraderie already does that. Not only this, but it sounds like you're speaking from a place of... well... wherever you are. But when people are fed up with being face camped - taking this perk is their way of mutual destruction towards the killer. Decisive Strike doesn't mean you don't get tunneled, and does mean you spend a lot MORE time getting tunneled if anything - and hell, you can miss the check and lose the perk, it's a waste of time... why do people take it? Borrowed time forces survivors to spend several seconds mending? Who likes mending? Not only would sitting on the hook for longer NOT be an issue for many frustrated players - especially those playing with friends - but when the perk is revealed, the killer should feel sufficiently motivated to go away from the hook and find someone who DOESN'T have this perk to be their victim of choice.
3.) You're saying 'no' to a perk that does something like this, then you turn around and suggest that there is a basekit option to entice killers away from the hook? Face-campers cannot be enticed. They do not care if they stare at paint dry for minutes at a time and walk away with 2 kills. You fundamentally cannot stop face camping with bonusses to killers. If there was something implemented base-kit, it would be something akin to this... which would be infinitely more of an overstep than reworking this useless perk to niche appeal.
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She's just unfun to play against.
She's either a snooze fest, or she stomps you into the dirt. A lot of people are so done with the concept they just give up.
I don't think it's that they don't think they can win - that it's helpless, I believe they simply don't care... because it isn't fun.
It isn't okay or viable - it's just that people get frustrated and bored and... well... they do what people do when they get fed up.
@PlaysByShady said:
What I love about Nurse is that, survivors are all like "nerf NOED, it requires NO SKILL!!", and the Nurse comes along, and she's only lethal if the player has put a lot of hours in her to learn her (i.e. built up their skill). Then survivors are like "nerf Nurse, we cba learning how to juke her, we want a killer with no skill!"
Like, make up your mind guys?
Both.
Nerf both.
They both need reworks very badly.
Nurse is so incredibly bad for the game that literally entire perk launches have to be snuffed and balanced around her, because she fundamentally breaks the game. Teleporting across a field and smacking a survivor - then doing it again to get a down in 5 seconds is NOT satisfying, it's garbage design.
Feast or Famine.
Either so incredibly good that few can even step toe-to-toe with you. Or miss a few hits and be completely unable to seize the momentum from the survivors.
Very poorly
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@Gameavision said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/07IHGKORZCLB/why.png
Load into a game as Wraith for shenanigans, see we're getting sent to Badham, down someone in the first twenty seconds and plop them on a hook.
The next few moments are typical of your average game, getting in a chase, slapping people who want to loop. Y'know, fun stuff.
The hooked person immediately D/C's at 5 gens and all I can do is feel bad for the rest of the survivors who don't deserve an auto-loss, especially since one of them was pretty decent at looping. So I get everyone on death hook (for more BPs) and then leave them be, free to run out the gates.
We all dance in circles before the game ends and bid each other farewell, spamming bell and dropping items, with plenty of honorable nods on both sides.
I guessed that before the end-game screen popped up it was the disconnect that brought the offering, lo and behold I was right.
My only question, why is it always the offering users?
People don't usually bring map offerings unless they are being intentional about something that relies on it.
People sit on tons of offerings - they only bring the Haddonfield one when they want to grief the killer.
When it turns against them, they get upset.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2885934#Comment_2885934
This may overwhelm you because I drew alot of these.
Much appreciated - my wife is going to love this art!
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No competition.
Balanced Landing has a chance to be utterly useless - with very specific maps having virtually no places to trigger it reliably. (Cough Cough Sheltered Woods, Cough Cough)
It can come in handy in a pinch - but requires a LOT of setup, a LOT of luck, and a LOT of preparation to pull off well - especially within the context of specific locations.
Dead Hard you press a button.
EZ
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It's easy money, what have you got to lose, Behavior?
Resident Evil was the most successful License you guys have had - maybe try coordinating with Capcom to rake in the cash?
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Some of them are easier than others. It's a case by case issue.
Some of those 'in a single trial' ones are absolute crapshoots and require a lot of teamwork (or betrayals) to pull off, especially at higher ranks.
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@Crowman said:
Just make it so the perk works both for yourself on 2nd state and for others on 2nd state. This way it's less situational and leans more towards Camaraderie where you are working together with other survivors to keep each other alive. Kindred got this treatment a while back and it went from a perk no one really ran to a solid perk you'll often enough.
Plus I don't think this rework is really a good idea. Most people aren't going to want to stay on hook longer to counter camping. A lot of survivors already just let themselves die on hook if being camp so they can move on to a different game.
I agree that there could be a teamwork aspect put into the perk to make it more interactive and thematic :)
However, I've heard a lot of people on communities ranging from the forum to facebook and Reddit that have requested things like this. I'd imagine a perk that somehow makes a killer rue the day they face-camped would be worth having in the game - even if this is not precisely how it should look.
@VirtuaTyKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2884126#Comment_2884126
Good luck checking them all with slower killers on larger maps before they pop. You do play killer right lol
I do, actually!
But I still don't quite understand. If you're worried about generators - why are you still next to the hook? Isn't that the exact place you don't want to be if your intention is to pressure survivors?
I don't see how this incarnation of the perk has anything to do with generators.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2884274#Comment_2884274
Its a me, see three
I love your work already, If you have a place you upload it to, let me know - I'd love to follow!
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2884283#Comment_2884283
Realm Beyond Update is supposed to be primarily graphical update and not content/balance update.
otherwise -obviously- that would be great.
Exactly.
Glad there are updates coming. But it's like driving the hospital patient to Baskin Robins for ice cream.
The gesture is appreciated, but can we please get that infusion we need instead?
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I used to be a killer main.
But Behavior seemed to choose Survivor over killer - making the 1 in the 1v4 game a lot less appealing to stomach.
I play the game to kick back and have fun, maybe be a little competitive at times.
Survivors have it easy. I choose to play survivor more because killer is a stressful and lopsided experience that constantly reminds me that the developers of the game frankly do not give a single care about its health.
Then I pop over to survivor and I don't care because the game's easy as pie.