Valik
Valik
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@HexDaddyissues said:
the temper tantrums you guys throw every other day is hilarious
"Well if i can't win THEN IM NOT GUNNA PLAY ANYMORE" type of energy.
Having been a preschool teacher for 7 years, i can safely assure you- toddlers have better anger management skills than this
Temper tantrums, right...
"If this hospital isn't going to give me what I need, I'M GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE!"
That's a temper tantrum, right?
"I bought tickets to the theme park and you won't let me on any rides? I'M GETTING A REFUND!"
Temper tantrum.
"You're docking my pay because you mismanaged your own company? I'M QUITTING!"
Yet another temper tantrum.
You see, when people have a legitimate complaint and plan on acting on it - just call it a temper tantrum!
No complaints are viable if you just excuse them away!
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895623#Comment_2895623
I've found it to work great in conjunction with other slowdowns, as long as you have good game sense.
Corrupt. Buy some time in the early game to get a good set-up.
Pain Resonance. It's just good.
PGTW and CoB, knock 25% off of another gen and Ruin-regress it.
The idea is that the Survivors you are facing are good. They're spreading pressure and you know that. PR is gonna hit the most ideal gen and then you can option-select. Do you want to go for a different gen and regress it a ton? Or do you want to hit that PR-gen and knock it to zero?
I've found it to work quite well for me.
Again, it works with newer survivors - but it also requires a lot of lead-up and planning to make it work.
You're talking about the amazing meta perks of Pop and Pain, and - yes, the two have undeniable synergy and sit on the top of the killer meta right now.
Call Of Brine, however, does very little to fit within.
If a generator sits idle for, like, 8-12 seconds - you're lucky. Which translates to 4-6 seconds (~5%) of generator progress. With survivor time being a quarter as valuable as your own - that's like saving you (the killer) 1 second every time you kick a generator - maybe a little bit more.
At that point, you might as well take Eruption for better synergy, or Deadlock for better slowdown, Ruin for a more reliable start, or - hell - waste time doing other things. New healing meta will steal more than 5 seconds away from survivors here and there if you run Sloppy Butcher, lots more slowdown against healing. Save The Best For Last makes you more deadly as the match goes on, paired with the Pain-Pop combo it can be dizzying.
Even off-meta perk choices are better selections for this. Saving the killer 1-2 seconds every time they kick a generator can be quickly outclassed by Brutal Strength, which saves 0.6 seconds on a pallet break - which can add up over time. Kicking 5 pallets, walls, or GENERATORS will give you almost 3 seconds of time.
Kick a wall, kick 3 pallets in a chase, then hook and kick a generator? Brutal Strength already gave you more value than Call of Brine would have if you brought it.
That's where we are.
Call Of Brine is a more specific, less as generally useful perk as Brutal Strength.
There are few perks you wouldn't be better off taking if you're playing against coordinated survivors. Even niche ones like Coup De Grace have greater general and potential value.
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@HelloKitty2022 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895156#Comment_2895156
But if the matches were fair why is it so hard finding a killer and why so many killers dont want to play with swf squads? But for this problem with not enough killers many killers will match up with too strong swf squads thats why i think an information will help. Maybe there will be a few killers who will accept swf or even like the challenge. But most will avoid it.
And we still forgot solo survs esp. if boon totems and so on will be nerfed. A swf squad can compensate it. For solo survs its getting worse. And bhvr basically did nothing to protect solo survs from this. Thats why i think mixing up all three groups is a fundamental mistake. They should separate them and all players have a chance to decide on them on which mode they wanna play. SWF is still possible but no killer will be forced into it like now.
Are you english by mothertongue? I am not so this might cause some misunderstanding. If so i am sorry for it. Lets make all points clear. THX!
Well, first off - hopefully we are not miscommunicating.
All of your concerns are tangential to the original conversation.
You're speaking of things like the fundamental death of killer players in the community - which is completely different than balancing SWF.
You're speaking of perk balance and the health of the gameplay - which is completely different than balancing SWF.
Good points to bring up - but altogether different problems that need different solutions.
English is my mother tongue.
I have many friends who have English as a second language, I understand the difficulties.
All is forgiven, I'm glad we can have a peaceful conversation about a game we both love :)
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It's not you - it's MMR.
MMR is easy to grind in SWF groups, which means higher skilled lobbies are dominated by them.
If you're seeing basically all meta SWF lobbies that are sweat fests, welcome to high MMR.
@HaunterofShadows said:
Yeah because using perks and items is abusing them. Bodyblocking is not toxic, nor is using dh. Does dh need changing Yes. Does bodyblocking no. But nothing you listed is abusing anything. Yeeesh
Bodyblocking isn't toxic, using perks itself isn't toxic, items are not toxic.
However, everyone ALWAYS rushing the most powerful (overtuned) Survivor perks grates and chafes after a short bit. At least survivors have the interest factor of facing off against killers with different powers - which can make matches unique and interesting regardless of meta perks. Killer mains have nothing to play around except perks and items. When every survivor brings meta perks and powerful items - the matches blend together and get super stale super quick.
Bodyblocking isn't, by itself, toxic. The problem is the implication. Taking a hit for a teammate is a powerful act that trades health states and time. But in the current meta, health to survivors is a sinch. Survivors are more brave than ever to get in front of a killer and take hits or hooks, because they're going to heal up and escape anyhow - at least in their mind. When you see a survivor bodyblock after 5billion matches, you don't think "Ah, yes! Take the hit! I will kill you ALL! I'll take you all on!" - now the killer thinks "Oh yeah, that's right, they're not afraid of me - I'm their entertainment. They know they're going to get out anyway."
For instance, T-bagging really isn't that big of a deal. So why is it more a big deal now adays than it ever was? Who legit complains about T-bagging anyway, it's not even that mean or anything? T-bagging, itself, means nothing - if anything, it paints a target on a player's back and puts them in a bad position - it can often get them killed. But survivors are doing it more and more. Toxic community? No.
T-bagging is a problem because survivors, now more than ever, feel the swelling sensation of confidence. They KNOW that they're safe, they KNOW that they're going to escape, they KNOW they're going to make your game hell - and they KNOW they're going to get away with it.
When a killer sees a T-bagging survivor these days, they don't think "Wow, what a jerk - he'll pay for that." - now adays they think "Wow. I really can't even punish them. The developers truly don't give a damn about this game."
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People in this comment section are missing the heart of the statement and are getting far too involved with the specifics of wording. "you can't ABUSE perks!" this and "Bring meta perks yourself" that.
Wake up people. The guy is saying he's having a rotten time playing killer because of major design flaws in the game's core - as well as a fundamental lack of action from developers that squander their time on fruitless pursuits when the game is in desperate need of a balance overhaul.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894447#Comment_2894447
Ringu is not a "significant licensed chapter".
But this discussion is pointless. Players WANT to see this game dying. They always ignore the fact that the RE-Chapter caused an anomaly with way more players playing than usually. The numbers are basically corrected to the normal number of players in this game.
Other games are also not dying when their big hype is over. They just adjust to a normal value.
Yeah, other than the fact the game has been steadily growing for the past 5 and a half years, and now it's seen an explosion of negative press, community backlash, and player discontent.
The past 7-8 months have been brutal. Not just for the charts, but for players.
People complaining on forums, in the game, on reddit, on Facebook, more than EVER before.
Pair that with the numbers you see.
Here's a pro tip for all of you noob statisticians.
If you double your buyer base and sustain it for 3 months - then everyone begins to rapidly leave after a controversial call - what is your deduction?
Did you double your buyer base and fail to retain market penetration? Sounds like a pretty big fail.
Did you experience a bubble by sheer chance and fail to retain market penetration? Sounds like a pretty big fail.
Even if all of these numbers are inflated from 'Rona and RE chapter with the 5 year anniversary - creating a massive bubble - the devs managed to take that little bubble and pop it with a blowtorch.
A good company would have seized the market and did everything they could to retain that new interest group. Not only did they fail miserably, but they're also managing to drive away their core market and create increasing contempt wherever they can.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894476#Comment_2894476
The RE-Chapter brought a lot of new players and an All Time-Peak. But again, I know that people like you want to see the game dying, they want to see dropping numbers. This is why all screenshots on that matter are cut off at September.
If you compare March 2022 with March 2021, you have around the same number of players. There is a 3k smaller average. Which is not dramatic.
And the numbers will probably go up again with the Anniversary Chapter (and Event), regardless what it is.
But ignoring the fact that the RE-Chapter brought more players than usual is just wrong. And I also dont think that those who started because of RE all quit. Probably many of those quit, because if you are only interested in RE, you might not find DBD fun since it is not a game focussed around RE in particular. Others will have quite because of other reasons. Which happens in every game.
But ignoring hypes and then saying that the game is dying if the player count goes back to normal is misinterpreting the data.
This sort of logic is what gets you to flunk out of Business 101 and Statistics 101 at the same time.
@JeanCharpentier said:
I would really like to know who is in charge of DbD at BHVR.
Who is the boss letting the SBMM ON while DbD has never known such a playerbase leak since realease ? Is it not obvious that SBMM IS the PROBLEM ?
Half the players are gone, most of us are unhappy with the game and we even start to hate the dev team decisions. It is almost getting personal from some of us... Regarding money made with the game, i guess the impact is really really huge and still no action is taken...
The world is burning.
Very silly people run great franchises into the ground and eviscerate their own product as lackey executives watch onward and consumers move away from the franchise... it's depressing.
I'd love to meet the people over at Behavior and... I don't even want to give them a piece of my mind. I'm just curious as to what goes on in theirs. They may have some perspectives that we don't - some challenges we cannot see - but regardless, it doesn't excuse that the DOA MMR system and Boons blew this game's knees off, making it crawl for 7 months... and perks that desperately need attention, which could be fixed with a few forays into the code, likely will languish away in the dungeon for years before getting attention.
Get a good team in that company and they could flip the game upside down for the better. People make entire games in 24 hours, imagine what a team could crunch out in a couple of weeks if given the directive.
How these devs fumble the ball so horrifically and continue to show contempt for their buyers and a complete misunderstanding of their own product at every turn is astounding.
@Ghoste said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894452#Comment_2894452
Been saying this from the start of these discussions. Resident Evil brought in a record amount of people, so of course there were going to be big losses when the player base re-stabilized. I think DBD will never really die until it's no longer supported. A rock-solid amount of us simply love the game and stick around despite its flaws.
You know, McDonads started out with a small building and only a few thousand customers.
It's only natural that after opening a second location and doubling their customers, that half as many returned to each location.
If you ran Starbucks, you'd think that 1.5 people should purchase from each location, because markets don't grow and consumer bases don't expand and there is no such thing as retention.
No, McDonalds losing half of its customers wasn't the controversial change to pumpernickel bread and getting rid of ice cream. It was the second location.
Because what they teach in Microeconomics 101 is that when people buy your product - all of them will hate it and never buy or use it again - it's just FAKTS.
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All basically true.
Good news is that survivor match-ups get exponentially easier as you climb in ranks, as killer matches are quite the opposite.
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If they nerfed boon totems, this wouldn't be such a big deal.
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- I love this post.
- Map offerings
These need some serious attention. One way to balance it is to make maps a roulette table, with each map offering increasing the CHANCE for the selected map by a significant portion. Even if all the survivors bring offerings, unless the killer brings one too - there's still a chance it will be a different map. As it is, though, a map offering has a nearly 100% chance to work - save for when contested by other such offerings. The disparity between killer sided and survivor sided maps is another issue. Imagine if this were in CoD or something... where teams got to choose which map to go after learning what side they'd be on. It wouldn't be an issue - because CoD maps are balanced. As it stands, that would be the killing blow in a CoD matchmaking system if the spawns were totally and completely broken based off of what map you're going to. No other game in existence has this problem... so why don't they just tweak the numbers over the week and start the PTB tests next Monday as an Easter present? The game's been out for almost 6 years with constant development in addition to the two years prior to release. That's over 5x longer than the development run for Fallout New Vegas.
- Perk weight
Agreed. But I'd caution you - it's not 1/3. It's 1/6. That's one of the worst things about this game - the PERKS. Survivors have 109 or so perks at their fingertips, but only 17 or so do you ever see getting any real screen time. Killers have the same problem where out of 93, only 17 or so are relevant once you get past the noobs. Killer perks can be strong, like Pop , NOED, or Corrupt - but survivors have phantom perks that create paranoia and altar playstyles by the factor of their own existence - which even NOED doesn't do. Killers avoid hitting unhooked survivors or picking them up afterwards, or slugging, because BT DS and UB are major perks - and it's a huge risk that makes killers change the way they play the game. Survivors don't cleanse totems out of fear of NOED. Through all of their complaints, it's not enough of a deal for them to actually change how they approach matches.
110% on the slowdown perks, too. Not only are these ABSOLUTELY needed in order to seize the momentum of the match, but they are basically factored into balance choices - meaning you're always going to need them unless survivors mess up and give you a few early hooks. In addition, many of the other perks to choose from are information perks or cute debuffs (Plaything, Third Seal) which can make a match interesting, but - in practice - do very little to allow a killer to burn through survivor resources faster than they can get generators to turn over.
- Items
IMO it's not the toolboxes. Toolboxes should be buffed and made into far more powerful versions than where they are now. It's the Gen economy that is so poor. As it stands - the 80 second gen time is so precise in its repair speed that it can be generally balanced without any speed-up perks or items. Once something like Prove Thyself or Resilience + Spine Chill get brought in with a brown toolkit - shaving 10%-20% off a generator time is massive. It's not the fault of perks and items being strong - it's a problem with the fickle balancing around generator progress.
also - you're completely fine. There are plenty of times when bad games (or bad lobbies) kill the game for us.
Agreed.
Devs, please - for the love of God - green light and push out some overhauls ASAP.
People aren't going to buy your skins and cosmetics if you keep letting the well poison itself at this point.
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In low ranks, it's super good.
In higher rank match-ups, it's flat garbage.
In the beginning, it screws over unskilled survivors and makes gen's explode all over.
As it stands, once you get nominally skilled survivors on generators, the only time they will blow is when you chase them away.
The best perks to run for this are Huntress Lullaby and Tinkerer. By the time you get to a gen with tinkerer, you can force them off by the time it procs and, if Huntress is up, they can wave goodbye to a significant chunk of their gen progress.
However, this perk is very fickle. Bringing Huntress and Tinkerer JUST TO MAKE IT WORK will not be good value.
Especially since after 1 failed skill check - this perk is dead on the generator forever.
Either it will give you information or regression. There are better info perks out there, and there are better regression perks as well.
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It legitimately cannot work within the confines of the game as it is designed. There are too many aspects that revolve around the survivor having situational awareness - such as the red stain on their back.
Interesting, but impractical.
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One with lots of hits and a tight chaser that denies heals.
If a survivor wiggles free or gets picked up - goodbye to your pips.
When they heal, your pips dissolve too.
A killer like Hag is good at these things.
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It may have been a brash reaction - but overall, I understand where you're coming from.
Bad matches as survivor - or in general with other games - can be a bit frustrating, but nothing too major. Usually it's a bad teammate or a lame glitch, maybe a mistake I wish didn't happen... the usual gamer stuff.
When killer matches are bad, I curse Behavior for not following through on Game Design 101, or at least doing their due diligence with updates.
I'd be a lot more forgiving towards their painfully slow pace of production, AND the game as a whole, if they actually tweaked perks and reworked systems to make the game less demanding and frustrating.
I've never felt truly HELPLESS as a survivor. Sure, some games killers can be scummy. But never HELPLESS.
As killer, there are many - MANY times that I feel completely and utterly HELPLESS to catch and stop survivors. Especially when I take off-meta builds.
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It's okay.
People who are buzzing about it are likely playing against lower tier survivors.
It may be useful in baby tiers, but once you start getting into matches where survivors know how to spread out their time and keep generators flying - it's not going to see all that much use.
Pop is a good synergy perk. You could run something like Pop and Brine on Freddy to deliver a powerful blow to a gen and let it regress for a bit longer - or you could take a different perk of better power - like NOED, Haunted Ground, Echo, and much more.
On paper it's brilliant, but it needs a rework to truly shine - as the faster games become, the less you kick gens and the less valuable the perk becomes.
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@Ula said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895219#Comment_2895219
Oh, I just opened doors about what could happen, but I completely agree that facecamping should be weaker. Sorry if my writing looked like I though these changes were useless.
Thanks for being calm and clear about it. Miscommunications happen, it's a nice feeling knowing we can work through them.
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@tastespurple said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895219#Comment_2895219
Re: Camaraderie
I'm unsure. The main change here is that instead of at least 2 Survivors being occupied (one with Camaraderie and the other triggering it), your rework gives potential for all other (3) Survivors to stay on objective (but this still does not seem likely).
I still don't think the perk avenue is the best way to find a solution, but here are some suggestions:
Buff Kindred
-When the Killer is within a short range of the hook, their aura is revealed to all Survivors, even and especially when the holder of the perk is not the one on the hook.
-The range from the hook at which the Killer is revealed to the other Survivors could be shorter than the holder of the perk, or it could be when they are within the Terror Radius, but nevertheless the range at which the Killer is revealed should be a range they have no business staying within when the hook is active.
A New Perk
-Take Your Time: When another Survivor progresses to second hook stage, for the next 15 seconds, any damage taken that would put you into the dying state will instead apply the Deep Wound status effect. [Stuff about mend times, getting hit again makes you go down, etc.] [You also can't be "caught" whilst performing the unhook action while this perk is active, but that is a secret effect not in its description.]
-This perk in particular would work well against face-campers but also be viable in many other scenarios. It's basically "Borrowed Time" but for the benefit of the hero instead of the victim.
Something Else Entirely
The main idea of my suggestion in the original post is to notify Survivors when the Killer is face-camping. There's lots of ways to do that. Someone suggested an icon. There could be some kind of audio or visual cue. Maybe the Entity starts whispering. Who the hell knows? It really doesn't matter what the method of delivery is, just that the information (the Killer is face-camping) is delivered promptly to the Survivors.
Killers have crows, so Survivors need something. These are both abusive scenarios, but only one has a fix.
I think Kindred should work as-is, but reveal the killer's aura in a 24 meter radius. Would make it a much stronger pick and you'd see it a lot more often.
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100%. on the Take Your Time idea.
Honestly, there are so many weak perks out there - this could easily be added to many of them to make them more attractive. We'll Make It granting Endurance while within 8m of a hooked survivor and making it proc after the final gen is completed would spring it into the stratosphere, for instance.
I want to see your perk idea in the game, But I'd also like to see it in the form of a preexisting garbage bin perk - like Desperate Measures.
~
I like the idea of the killer accruing crows for every 10 seconds the game detects them as 'camping' without legitimate need.
Maybe just a little killer icon on the HUD that shows that the killer is being cheeky.
As you say, maybe it really is just that simple!
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@BubbaDredge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2895243#Comment_2895243
20% would be a minute, essentially an entire extra hook state, almost a whole gen. I feel like that would be punishing enough to get value out of the perk. It's ok if something is potentially game-changing, but you can't make it definitely game-changing. That's the problem with CoH.
Wouldn't 50% be a minute?
120 seconds total hook time. 60 seconds is half of 120.
I see where you're coming from, though!
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@BubbaDredge said:
Those are crazy numbers, but otherwise I think it would be ok as a perk. I originally wrote a long response because I thought you wanted it as a game mechanic. I'm old and don't pay attention.
To give a perspective, a killer can can change basement hook speed like 3%. Messing with hook speed is a big deal, it would have to be way smaller.
Long responses are always welcome! (Don't worry, I'm young and I don't pay much attention either.)
Fair enough!
I don't think my numbers are rocket-science based, CNN fact-checker backed, Twitter blue sticker, FDA approved and ready to go.
I mostly post these things to start conversation. See where everyone else is at
3% of Entity progress is just shy of 4 seconds.
80% is a little over 90 seconds.
There's a lot between 4 and 90 seconds though!
What would you, yourself, feel most comfortable with as added time to a perk like this? :)
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@Whoudini said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892832#Comment_2892832
I agree with this lol, though I think if we were gonna buff some perks like this we would need to nerf the meta perks. Since no perks will actually be used over the current ones unless they were better (lets be honest do you really want a perk stronger than DS or DH?). So we could have a meta like this if the current strong perks were toned down and it would be awesome since I love running goofy builds.
As for the maps ig it does not seem like as big of a deal but you just need to see the stats on WRs for these maps. Its a big gap between the worst ones and the more killer favoured ones. Some killers just cannot win on huge maps with survs who knows what to do (Especially with spawns, some spawns mean no matter how well you play, you will lose like 2 gens at the start). Ig strong loops aside the problem for me is some map's size. Like lets be real, Mother's dwelling does not need to be that huge lol.
Some perks do see occasional play, but I get what you mean. You could get away with less strong builds but I think it does come down to the survs feel like they have to run strong stuff (I run DS simply because it feels so bad to be tunnelled when I don't have it and I am not someone who tells the killer off for doing it since tunnelling is an effective strategy).
I agree. But some perks don't need hard nerfs, just slight mechanical tweaks.
Hex: Ruin only starts after 3-5 seconds of being idle.
Dead Hard is not an exhaustion perk, but makes you Broken for 60 seconds - cant be used until restored to full health again.
DS is an exhaustion Perk, BT has a cooldown.
Echoes Of Pain doesn't make survivors scream, Pop has a cooldown.
Meta perks can get love taps to cut them back down to size.
In truth, you don't need to do much. If you just make lame perks actually work well - they'd at least be contenders.
Oh absolutely.
IMO, I actually find the map to be less at fault than the flow of the game itself.
The current meta is based off 100% off of a time economy.
Distance is time.
Map design could be upgraded to make time a less prominent investment to traverse these maps.
However, Behavior could just as easily tweak generator values in order to make each realm sport a different size and overall different time economy.
The problems you see are that the time economy itself has not changed, but the distance of the map strains the economy of everyone - most notably the killer.
In the end, everyone feels the need to run 'strong stuff' - and that's my point.
Very few things in the game feel as 'strong' as DS.
What if Second Wind/Revitalize guaranteed a free health state mid-match when you needed it the most?
What if you could rely on Dance With Me to bamboozle the killer every time you use it?
What if Windows Of Opportunity allowed you to vault through Entity Blocked windows once?
What if Deliverance worked on 2nd hook stage as well?
What if Hysteria could spread to healthy survivors and, conceptually, have an unendiing up-time?
What if Hoarder stacked mounting debuffs on greedy survivors that could be used to iniitiate deadly chases?
What if Predator was an actual perk?
What if Furtive Chase made chases fun?
Killers NEED strong perks to contend with strong survivors. Survivors NEED strong perks in order to contend with strong killers.
In the end, there are only 17 actually STRONG perks in the game. You may see some funny guy try to make a niche perk work - or take the occasional No Mither for a meme.
But at the end of the day, if you want to have a fun time playing killer on Mother's Dwelling - don't rework the map, rework the perks.
No child cares about the candy store if it has pitiful morsels and bitter tastes within.
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@Ula said:
Revealing the aura of a face-camping killer is a nice idea, but I think it's not enough because of stealth killers and insidious.
I though once that using afk crows on an hooked survivor would be neat, but it would probably not be explicit enough for most survivors.
There are few killers that can't use their powers near hooks (Pyramid Head's trails, Twins, Artist). Disabling more killer power next to hooks could be interesting, I mainly think about bubba (yes that would hinder a bubba chasing a survivor that loops near a hooked survivor, but this situation is a mistake from the chased survivor and is in the advantage of the killer in my opinion).
Another issue that makes facecamping strong is that you can be grabbed from rescuing survivors while being healthy. I remember Otz made a poll on one of his streams months ago, and he said he'd like that you can only be grabbed from unhooking if you're already injured and I think that would be fair.
On dbd mobile, there's a loading page that pop ups often, telling survivors they should do generators asap when someone is being face camped. However, facecamping is very commun on dbd mobile, and survivors always run to their death despite they should know not to do that. There was an attempt there by bhvr, but it's clearly not successful.
(I have 700h on dbd on pc, and probably close to 200h on dbd mobile)
Finally, if facecamping gets weaker, these players will certainly seek and find another cheesy strategy, like stalking from afar the hook with ghostface, iridescent head huntress watching the hook, one shot deathslinger, etc.
I mean, if your best reason not to make the game more fun and balanced is - that by doing so - bad players will only make the game worse... then what's the point of the discussion in the first place?
That's like not stopping a bank robbery because 'bank robbers will find a worse way to rob a bank if we stop them' - it makes no absolute sense.
If IH Huntress is a problem, it should be fixed in addition to other problems - not used as a cudgel to discourage positive change.
This isn't constructive discussion. it's shutting down constructive discussion because bad construction exists somewhere else in the world.
@tastespurple said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894691#Comment_2894691
I am a Killer main.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894579#Comment_2894579
I'll run perks to counter valid strategies, like how when I play Killer I will run Lightborn to counter beamers or my pallet perks to counter pallet drops. The responsibility for dealing with face camping should not be on the players because it's not the intended way of play, anyway.
So. Let's hear your other suggestions. Got 'em?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894572#Comment_2894572
It is clear from this post that you did indeed read it and so that makes your comments that much the sweeter. Two claps for you.
But yes, I agree and I give my personal seal of approval for this to be canonical supplementary text to the original post above. Anyone who may have trouble stomaching the length of that tapeworm can come to Annso's post for some cool chilling refreshments a-la 1000 characters or less (I didn't actually count it; don't @ me).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894392#Comment_2894392
The "catch" mechanic is a poor state. I can't tell you how many times the catch animation will start and then fail suddenly, or I will get points for a catch without getting one at all. So, whether it's the game ######### up or Survivors cheesing their interaction to prevent the catch, it's entirely unreliable. I don't really think Survivors being caught on the hook is the problem here; in my games, it doesn't happen even when it should.
You are correct when you say that face-campers will evolve their strategy, but I still think it is necessary, because you go from virtually no chance of a rescue to having the (pretty good) chance to dodge the axe or the shot. It might not solve all problems, like Insidious or Ghost Face, but with previous changes in place, now we can focus on those specifics. Survivors are pretty crafty. They really just need a tiny bit of breathing room and they'll make the plays happen.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894367#Comment_2894367
The main issue is getting the Killer's physical body to get away from the hook to give more of a chance for an unhook. With Nurse and those other mobility Killers, closing that distance and getting the grab requires some amount of skill, and there's a chance to outsmart or outpace the Killer. It takes no skill to stand next to a hook and body block it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894342#Comment_2894342
If I just came in here with my first post looking like a Tweet asking for a modified Kindred to be added to basekit, that'd gone over worse. My hope is that I understand the issue and I show that in my explanation. My second hope is that with that context it becomes clear why my proposal would be effective. My third hope is that by putting in that work the developers see that effort and return it with an honest, thorough evaluation, which, because I'm a raging narcissist, I think will obviously lead them to my same conclusion. Fourth, quite a lot of the post is fluff to appeal to humor, in a hope I won't appear as "taking myself too seriously" which always attracts people who want to tear YOU down instead of your ideas. That, and to make it easier to stomach the read. If I thought I'd get the same outcome with a shorter post, I probably would have. It took way too long to write.
I'm a Killer main, so I feel like I can talk about this stuff pretty confidently. I agree on some maps in particular pallets are awful. Survivors also have a lot of perks that give them second chances. Big HOWEVER. Those are two separate problems. If me, a Plain Jane Killer Kid, still averages 3Ks on games that I explicitly go out of my way to not tunnel and camp, well, then....
So, yeah, I agree map design is a big issue. Personally, I would not give a hoot about a map dense with safe pallets if I had the heads up to run an anti-pallet build on it. The dynamic where no one knows each others perks until it's too late to change them is, to me, not just a head-scratcher, but a head gouger. But these are different things, and even if the game were "fixed" in those regards, face-camping would still be as effective and as possible as it was before.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894300#Comment_2894300
Who hurt you?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894179#Comment_2894179
Did not think. Will need reevaluate. Returning to mothership to run calculations. Standby for.... 3,459 Earthling years. Is this an acceptable timeframe?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894361#Comment_2894361
Oh. I know who hurt you. :(
But in all seriousness, it's probably because there are "anti-camping" and "anti-tunneling" perks built into the game? And you know, since they had to walk to school five miles uphill both ways in the snow while being chased by the neighbors dogs, everyone else just needs to get gud and develop an immuno-response to the toxicity. It's only natural.
Although, I will say that people have different definitions of camping and tunneling. My definitions are pretty strict.
The behavior must be intentional.
The behavior must be unmotivated by events in the game.
So this means a camper sits on hook at 3 gens the same way they sit on hook at 5 gens. Killer stays at hook during exit gates? That's motivated by events in the game and is (more) understandable.
It also means a tunneler purposefully tracks the same Survivor to hook them out of the game, even if other Survivors are around or easier targets. Coincidentally finding your last hook victim self-healing in a corner? Well it's not ideal to down and hook them, but it's far from egregious.
Even the Illustrious @Warphead who replied first to this thread in disagreement does not fit those definitions of behavior. What Warphead says Warphead does is absolutely fine for Warphead to do. It's not worthwhile to call someone's behavior camping or tunneling unless it is disruptive to normal gameplay, which, again, the style of behavior from people like Warphead is not.
Warphead.
Wait, is it Warp Head or War Phead? What would a war phead be?
Agreed.
Not only do we all need to come together to find legitimate community definitions for these terms, but Ii appreciate your wording. Intentionality.
Camping is when the killer is sitting within 6m of the hook, often staring directly at it, and doing basically nothing - even (especially) when unprovoked. When survivors are rushing the hook, or you're patrolling, perhaps staying nearby to defend the hook, or have nothing better to do - so you intend to secure the kill and force other survivors out. Completely fine. The problem is when killers choose to stay directly on top of a survivor in spite of everything - even to their own detriment. If they just had 4 sneaky BT unhooks in a row within seconds of a hook - sticking around to make sure there are no sneaky survivors waiting around is fine. Camping is NOT simply existing near the hook, nor is it returning frequently or staying in the general area. Camping is when the killer sits and stares - game be damned. 2 minutes is a lot of time, and survivors can get a lot done, but it isn't enough to make for a guaranteed 3e. It just makes the game stagnant and boring for all parties involved and must be discouraged wherever possible. If EGC has started and the other two survivors are at exit gates - go ahead and stick by the hook as killer, it's no big deal. But if you're sitting and staring at your first hook and waiting for 2 minutes (or for a silly would-be-savior to step up) you're just wasting everyone's time. I've played over 1k hours with the majority as killer; camping - by this definition - has not, is not, nor ever will be 'a legitimate strategy' in this game.
True enough. Tunneling, however, is not so much placing priority and mentally juggling hook states to know when you need to brute force a kill. it is, however when the killer refuses to extract health states from others or apply pressure to only lock down on another survivor - instantly acquiring them off hook and chasing them down world-be-damned. If the person unhooked has had 30 seconds to breathe, has worked on other objectives, has been restored to full health, been caught out in any way, or you - the killer - have invested time pressuring or injuring any other survivor after the unhook... you're not tunneling. It comes back to what you said 'intentional'. I've had silly survivors walk right into me after being unhooked because they thought I was approaching from a different place - that's on them. I've had unhooked survivors refuse to heal and hop on a generator - their risk, their fault. II've had survivors heal back to full health only for me to re-acquire them and beat them handily in another chase - it's fair game at that point. Some people seem to think that tunneling is an over-broad term, but I think you nailed it on the head with your 'intentional' feature. Quantifiably, though, tunneling is more-so accomplishing nothing outside of one survivor upon their unhook. If your only aim in life is to make one survivor's game dirty and rotten - mean, but fair enough, just don't forget to spread the love over the entire 4 survivor roster. You have lots of generators to defend, health states to strip away, survivors to chase, and pallets to break. If you cannot find ONE other thing to do with your time that doesn't involve a freshly unhooked survivor - you're just ruining the fun. Tunneling survivors off the hook is not sporting, and is extremely - extremely foolish. It serves little other than to make the game a frustrating bore for all parties involved for no net benefit.
~
Absolutely agreed.
When a survivor telegraphs an unhook, defending the hook is a major priority.
If there are no nearby survivors - or the survivors have clearly left - or there iis no REASON to suspect nearby survivors, snuggling up to the hooked survivor is the very definition of setting up a camp.
. . .
War Phead.
Not 'Pee-head' but like... 'fed'
Like in the cringy early 2000's when we said 'Phat'
Unless it IS War Pee-Head.
In which case it must be like Pinhead but with more... like... Call Of Duty sponsored Mountain Dew ?
Also...
Here's a perk change I wanted to get feedback on:
@Valik said:
Camaraderie is kind of a strange perk choice that is niche to a fault, as it requires strict teamwork and has questionable viability in many circumstances.
However, everyone HATES being face camped.
Would it be better if Camaraderie had the following effect:
(Due to popular demand, the perk has been slightly changed)
While on the hook, if the killer is closer than 16 meters and there are no other survivors within 24 meters, after an 8 second delay Entity progress is reduced by 40/60/80%
The killer is made aware of this perk's presence once it is activated.
If you just make it so that face campers have to sit under the hook for 4 AGONIZING minutes when they sit there for no reason - it will completely shift the game around.
Campers enjoy the luxury of the 2 minute hook time - which is usually super well designed for normal gameplay, but campers rely on this 2 minute countdown to leave enough room for them to find another camping victim before the end game rolls around - or 3 if a couple kill themselves.
On a side note, it would also be nice if Killer players that meet this criteria (Remaining within a short range of the hook when no other survivors remain within a larger radius) have BP sapped from their post-match earnings and transferred to the hooked survivor.
For the killer, it's a clear punishment that may take hundreds of BP away - maybe even a couple grand! Easy BP are out the window for campers.
On the other hand, if you're being camped, just hang in there, you're earning all those bloodpoints that the killer is shedding and more.
Drag this out for a long period of time, and the killer will have their BP gains in the dirt if they choose to camp, and regardless of how unfun it was getting camped - you still leave with a lot more earnings than you previously would have had when falling victim to the predations of such grievers.
While I'm skeptical as to the viability and reception to making Kindred Base-Kiit, I'd love to hear your thoughts and approaches to something along these lines.
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@HelloKitty2022 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894913#Comment_2894913
No i just put some salt into the wound and its a big wound in deed. And the numbers are not illustrative but the sad truth. And on top your killers cant have a bigger difference than 200. So e.g. your best killer is at 1500 your worst cant get lower than 1300.
And when dreaming you forgot killers are rare my friend. At a east coast server they got a 1:50 ratio and its not getting better. On the contrary. And if a killer dont want to play SWF no one can force them or dont you think so? The problem is SWF and as long SWF exist the problems will exist.
I think you're misunderstanding.
I was using a number as an example of a proposed change. Not as how it does work, or as a literal example of how it may work.
Sorry for the confusion.
I'm not expecting a lot of survivors to have 100 or 200 MR - nor am i expecting results that I was putting forward unless major changes were implemented from behavior.
~
Killers will return to the game when it gets fun again. The killer drought is a major problem - but it will quickly evaporate once Boon totems are fixed, perks are reworked, and the MMR system sees many QOL improvements. Attracting killers is besides the point anyhow.
~
The problem itself is not all about nerfing crossplay, but about placing SWF groups at the top of the food chain instead of averaging their scores out to find a killer.
As it stands, the MMR system finds 'fair' killer matchups based on the survivor team's cumulative MMR scores.
While not a massive long terms solution - having SWF teams bumped into ques much more challenging than before, it will cause SWF games to be much more difficult for survivors - who were previously just breezing through them - and would also mean that killers that saw SWF teams would be given survivors that, individually, are far less skilled than non-SWF survivors.
True, once you get to the top, things get a bit redundant.
Adding 75% MMR to a team of 9999 MR survivors isn't going to magically summon a 17,500 MR rank into existence. But for the low end killers, the average killers, and even many of the higher end killers - this kind of change would make SWF lobbies a lot more manageable passively by ensuring that the benefits begotten by comms are spread across vastly inferior players.
~
To put a more concise mental image on it. Using a very basic and non-literal hyperbole from the old ranking system:
SWF in brown tier will always get you a Green killer.
Green tier SWF group will always get a purple killer.
Purple SWF groups will always get Red rank killers.
Red rank SWF will always get the best killers currently playing the game.
It doesn't nerf SWF or make killers dodge ques. It just makes SWF lobbies wait longer for harder killers. And killers get to face overall less challenging survivors that are playing with an advantage.
This isn't PERFECT at all or anything. It's more than fine to disagree.
I just have the feeling that you're misunderstanding my original statement, because it sounds like you're challenging my approach based of the MMR numbers i put in there - taking them a bit literally.
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@HelloKitty2022 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2893944#Comment_2893944
You start at MMR 1200. So its not easy to go down for 200. And on the other hand esp. in the evening killers are rare. So can easily get mixed up with swf squad and experience unfair and unfun match. If there are 20 top swf squads but only 5 killers that can compete with them the other 15 swf squads will get a very weak killer. For this killer this is 100% bullshit!
The numbers were illustrative in nature, not exemplary.
You may complain about disparity in desired killers and ACTUAL killer availability. But this is already a problem with the current system anyhow.
That's like not asking for what you want because you're afraid of not getting what you want.
@HelloKitty2022 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2893617#Comment_2893617
They already do an i did too when i still played killer. A private profile?! Oh they wanna hide its swf. Wait some time and then dodge. And you get mixed up with the same group very often. My personal record was 7 attempts to mix me with a probably swf squad. I refused and they waited round about 8 minutes just because of on killer.
As surv i sometimes have to wait up to 15 minutes until a killer will play with us. And frankly speaking i completely understand them. If there is a server just for all who dont need swf these swf squads have to play killer themself and then they will realize how unfun and unfair it is. Maybe then they will understand.
The point is - killers should not be warned with a giant neon sign that says 'DODGE IF YOU DONT WANT SWF' but rather, the numeric behind the scenes should work overtime to try and find more even matchups.
Instead of rewarding killers that dodge SWF lobbies, just make it so it's less of a deal in the first place by adding a longer que and a more difficult matchup for survivors that tip the game to their favor in this way.
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@Reshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892572#Comment_2892572
Main thing is that currently the EGC doesn't do enough to force survivors to leave. It's why people run NOED, force them to leave and let the killer confirm the kill. I'd imagine of the EGC was more of a "######### around and find out" mechanic that survivors wouldn't be trying to greedily rescue people all the time during the EGC.
Eh. It's not so much in higher tiers.
Exit gates absolutely will NOT be opening unless survivors are in a position to make peace with the situation - very seldom to the gates fly open unless there is a punctuation in mind for the Trial.
Also - NOED is NOT a perk that is designed to force survivors out, but to reel them back in. NOED has the effect of punishing survivor plays, but it was never intended to act powerful when EGC rolls around - but to prevent survivors from getting there in the short time between the final generator popping and the exit gates opening.
EGC and NOED have the same passive effect, at that, to push survivors out and make the game sport a bit of finality.
All in all, the threat of death after a few minutes is more than enough to make situations tense towards the end.
While it may be attractive to shorted the end game collapse in order to make it a greater threat - keep in mind that we also want to trick survivors into playing the game the way we want them to: we want them to open the gates outright and begin the EGC and not leave gates at 99%.
If it becomes too short, survivors would sooner take a hook than open the gates and spell certain demise. You need to give survivors a fighting chance through EGC, while also keeping it short in the tooth to provide pressure.
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@Reshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892605#Comment_2892605
Yeah, just saying that it'd probably be a lot more common than existing pallets are, but could work as a substitute for having god pallets everywhere on certain maps.
True - although I think that flooding the map with free stuns may prove difficult to balance. It has a lot less guaranteed value but a hell of a lot more potential value.
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Gonna be honest, I wish the devs did. But every single suggestion I've made has been met with disdain and complaints, as you very well see.
it seems like, while camping and tunneling may be considered by many to be a BAD thing, the community largely defends these aspects as core - fundamental part of the experience.
Why? I have no idea.
Good luck making a big splash.
People in this community will defend these things to their dying breaths.
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If you increase the time a generator needs to be completed by 4 seconds per generator in the match and change the base repair time to 76.
The 1st generator completed would need to have 16 additional seconds of work to be completed (20%)
After a generator is completed, the required repair for all other generators is lowered by 5% (4s)
Overall, this would make survivors have to repair a total of 50% more generator progress than usual.
This would be very oppressive for survivors - but by tweaking Toolboxes to become more powerful - it can easily find a balance.
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I think it should restore you to full health once the Broken Status ends - and create a way for you to become broken through the trial.
Like a 1 time use for using Broken as a comeback.
Perhaps have some sort of proc like - being placed in the down state within 5 seconds of receiving aid from an altruistic action causes you to be broken for 20 seconds.
This timer is paused while on hook.
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Nice bait bro.
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Save The Best For Last is one of the best perks in the game.
Also - he may be a bad killer overall, but he's super fun to play.
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I think things like injured running look worse now more than ever - but working on generators looks amazing, and walking no longer looks like you're wading in water.
I just wish they had a better idle stand animation. The 90 degree 'meercat' pose can be both hilarious and frightening at the worst of times.
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I'm unsure how well the lore of that film fits with this series. It has a lot of introspective insights on religion and the extreme implication of true demonic possession.
I do not think it would be moral or of good standing to have the possessed individual smacked around with pallets and show them killing people. It just wouldn't fit the tone or feel of the series.
Even if it was brought on as a skin for Plague, it would be in pretty poor taste IMO.
As a new killer, if navigated correctly, it can prove to be an interesting addition.
However, there are far more interesting crossovers to be had instead of something so difficult to integrate.
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It would become Dodge city.
Just give a compounding addition to total MMR value of a lobby based on the number cued together.
If you have 4 100 MR players, increase their overall MMR score by 75%. ( 400 | 700 MR killer )
By making it so that each SWF addition increases the group's calculated MMR by an additional 25% - divided over the lot.
(If you have a 200 MR person and a 800 MR person qued together, their overall score would be 1,750 - 875 each. The preferred killer would be around 875.)
The system, overall, should distribute the average of the lobby's MR and distribute it evenly to produce a killer value. But those that que together should create an MR value significantly higher than otherwise, regardless of discrepancies.
In a normal lobby, you can have a 1,000 MR, 1,000 MR, 1,000 MR, and a 200 MR survivor - and the average will be made to find a 800 MR killer.
With SWF, instead, this matchup would search for a 1,400 MR killer instead. Even though the 200MR survivor will struggle, the benefits of coordination through their teammates will make the match up far more amicable than before.
Honestly, though, things would be made a lot easier if the perk meta was a lot less unfair and uninteresting... and MR was determined by a flat variable that could be deduced while in a match.
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A Statistics spread sheet would be very, very welcome in a game like this.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892836#Comment_2892836
That's a very cherry picked list from your first one.
Your original list includes things that frankly aren't toxic. Tunneling, camping, even if the killer hits you on hook are just parts of the game, not toxic. Bleeding out isn't toxic either its just a game mechanic, if you are down you may not get picked up and may bleed out. There is a threshold to the obnoxiousness of it but is it really toxicity no.
There is a lot of obnoxious gameplay sure but really it can't hurt you.
Don't want to waste time waiting for the EGC then chase survivors out who cares if they are BM'ing you chase em out move on. It can't hurt you nor should it because it doesn't matter its only a game.
240 seconds of bleed out timer its obnoxious but there is a timer you won't have to lie there till you DC because again there is a timer, that's why its there. Is it obnoxious to utilize the whole timer? sure but that's why there is a timer to prevent it being a toxic hostage scenario.
Rage quitting, post game abuse, griefing as defined by the TOS, collaborating with the killer and cheating. That's your toxic list. Flashlight macros could be construed as such due to potential to induce sensory effects on people who may suffer from them i.e. epilepsy, sensory induced migraine and seizures, I'd like to see something done mechanically about it.
I don't enjoy a lot of obnoxious play myself but just because I don't like it or do it, doesn't make it inherently toxic. Thinking you have the right to dictate how others play is a pretty toxic mindset to have though because it induces people to be vindictive and abuse others over how they play a game.
The term toxic is so misused by this community that it basically means "anything that I don't like must be toxic." Which frankly is bullshit.
@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892878#Comment_2892878
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892963#Comment_2892963
Valik, this response here is a very good example of the kind of mindset I'm talking about regarding how the game should be played.
You've made a bunch of assumptions about how this person plays based on what to me seems like a pretty reasonable assessment of what you were saying. While they did take a lil dig at the idea of complaining about camping and tunneling "I yawn at these word" its not really directed at you personally, but your reply indicates you kinda took it as such. You come back with a bunch of assumptions about them as a gamer and then go for a personal attack over answering their point.
Now its an online forum its all fair game, I take the piss plenty out of people too but can you see how its quite relevant to this topic. You appear to take a lot of personal offense to things you don't like in game and if you want to do that its up to you. But you can't expect to impose your version of fun on someone else and call anything else toxic as a result.
This rigid set of made up rules of gameplay is what leads to a lot of misuse of the report system. Taking this subjective view of things and applying it to match making isn't a great idea.
I'd say keep MMR a results based and reward people for props with bonus BP's or shards. Maybe larger bonuses if opponents give each other props. Its kind of like a reverse party streamers. Post game lets give everyone a bit extra with props because it was a good game.
I mean - you're kinda doing the exact thing you're accusing me of. You're using a very narrow lens to frame the argument and change the definition of 'toxic' to fit a very narrow and - frankly - impractical if not absolutely amorphous property to the game.
You're basically rewriting the definition of toxic to mean 'Bannable offense' or 'quantifiably harmful' in some way. Which may be understandable if you offered some form of clarity. But you're using a completely subjective system to qualify 'toxic' in order to prove that I, myself, am using a completely subjective system to qualify 'toxic' behavior.
And, at this point, you're not even contending that what I said are in any way negative aspects of the game but are, instead, core aspects of the game. That killers kitting hooked survivors is not a mean spirited and discouraging thing, but some form of sanctioned and commonplace practice that is expected of all killers.
You're not saying that the definition of toxic is changing, you're rewriting what's good and bad based on your own moral rubric.
And the fact that you're trying to say that purely negative, self defeating, and community-wide shunned actions are in some way not any of these things, but are positive.
This in and of itself speaks more against your point than I ever could.
It's a forum. But if you wanted to educate or discuss something instead of trying to defend negative player behavior, this conversation would have turned out a lot different.
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He does need a rework.
The easiest thing to do is to make his pools sport increased slowdown based on each generator completed.
Base: 5% +2/gen. At 4 gens completed, contesting the final generator will have pools that slow for 13% for 5 seconds. That's pretty good.
Dream Pallets are always a thing and will randomly spawn a few in a large area when you use your teleport.
Dream-world slowdown is same as the Snare slowdown. 5% + 2% per generator.
Change lunge animation slightly so people stop complaining about him not touching them.
Break actions should have the glove - the glove should be the star of the FPS experience.
Give him some love and change his lullaby a little - Glimpse duration to 1 second and cooldown to 3 - and give his chase music and terror radius a much needed facelift.
To counteract this, give his Teleport power a 60 second cooldown. (-2.5s / Gen)
This is the easiest way to rework him. ^
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This is the harder way to rework him v
If you made his power a grab-bag of several powers that rotated, though.... that would be super good.
It would have the benefit of being super interesting and fun to play around with, as many aspects of the kit could be changed with several, unique powers shifting in and out upon use with a small cooldown. But it would make Kruger the most imaginative and the least predictable killer in the game.
Just give him stuff like:
~
Dream Snares (5 total. 5% slow +2%/Gen)
Dream Pallets (2 + 1/Gen total)
Dream Furnace (Plague Puke flamethrower that will hurt survivors that are hit with it consistently over its channeling. Lasts for 5s +1s/Gen)
Dream Arm ( Nemesis Tier 2 whip, but Freddy just elongates his arm. Range is 3m +1/Gen. Slowed after use with a lengthy 3s cooldown animation.)
Dream Rope ( Longer Nemesis whip that doesn't damage survivors with a huge wind-up. On-Hit the survivor is bound by the rope, which stays on them for 3s (+1s/Gen) and acts as a doctor Pacify. 12m Range. Only 1s Cooldown.)
Dram Magma ( Leave a trail of fire in your wake for 8s +2s/Gen. Survivors that remain in the flames for an extended period of time, they take damage )
Dream Geyser ( Creates a pillar of blood that acts like terrain for a 6s +2s/Gen)
Dream Ambuscade ( Become Undetectable and completely invisible with +15% (+4%/Gen) movement speed and cannot attack or interact for 8 seconds. When the ability ends, retain the movement speed for 1 second. )
Dream Dash ( Demogorgon shred, but slows a great deal before use. Speed of 16m/s and an open time of 0.5s + 0.15s/Gen | 8m - 20m| 4s cooldown on miss, 3s on hit, 2s on pallet or wall break )
Dream Scream ( Channel over the course of 12 seconds (-2s/Gen) -75% speed while channeling. Survivors in your terror radius instantly fall asleep. All Oblivious survivors scream, revealing their location )
Dream Embrace ( Old Freddy, Point at a survivor that is awake - they are slowly pulled into the dream world over 5s. For 15s their alarm clock does not spawn and they can not be woken up by any means. Using this power gives him a 5s speed boost of 2% +1%/Gen )
After use, ability goes on a 20 second cooldown (-2s/Gen)
~
This part is a lot more ambitious. However, I firmly believe that it can be balanced within the chaos of use. This would also make Freddy the most versatile and entertaining killer to both face and play, so long as his numbers can be tightened up to make the power-swapping ability ride the line between oppressively weak on one side or another.
The greatest benefit of such a design is it is intended to be weak in the early game and mount up pressure later - meaning, like Meyers, the killer has its counter baked into its own kit. Tweak the numbers right, and Freddy mains will surrender 3 generators before they can start stealing momentum. The entire point of the killer is that the last generator and end game will be quite the nightmare situation.
Pun intended.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2893638#Comment_2893638
Thank you, I wasn't expecting people to enjoy the idea this much.
The more I think about it, yes, this Concept was more about being an accurate representation of the Alien film, and less about fully working as a Killer, though I feel like I tried my best with my idea.
If you're interested in a Concept that would work "better" as a Killer, I have one (the Queen is just a bigger Xenomorph with a bigger crest not an actual Queen), though I personally find it worse, especially now that I finished this one.
Also, if you find any similar Add-ons or Perks, it's because I might have re-used them for this one.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10odyRotI_m_KHcJ93GE6NnEhSlppreNjEG4YEV4CMvY/edit?usp=drivesdk
Keep up the good work, my friend. Creativity is an oasis in the arid badlands of life. :)
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As I said, all it would take is a few tweaks to numbers.
If you can easily farm the game by blessing totems - totems shouldn't be worth a flat 6k BP.
An eloquent way of doing this is by rebalancing boon totems into 1 time use perks - give small BP bonuses when the perks are used, not when blessings occur.
Also, grant increased BP for totems cleansed later in the match - they are balloons of BP that fill over time.
This way, you can't 'farm' the game unless you make it to later - and you're not going to make it to later in the game if you spend time doing totems and ignoring objectives.
The beautiful aspect of the game is the time faculty. Per-Minute.
People can farm, yes. But I can assure you, so long as certain - very VERY niche circumstances are addressed for this - farming will always take more time and sport lower yields than actually playing the game the way it is intended to be played.
Again, so long as the BP economy gets tweaks and small reworks that reward good behavior while making 'framing' time a lot less lucrative in the SHORT run - then it all balances out.
If people want to take 40 minutes to grind out 60k BP - good on them. But it won't be as lucrative as getting 30kBP for a 10 minute match.
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@FlameGNG said:
there iss literally no reason to use nothing else than sprint burst or dead hard like balance landing WAS good but now its trash since we dont have the passive effect and i see no reason why ANYONE would run smashit... i mean overcome has tis place im tired of running dead hard becuase 30% of my downs i dont actiavte it since they are obviously to far away to hit me but surprise surprise servers think its a valid hit :)
and its just a super boring perk to run anyways i kinda get why BL doesnt have its passive and yet i dont there are literally maps where you CANT use it on like there isnt even a hill to activate it on... and maybe lower the passive to 30 40% instead it would be a better experience for killers and survivors to refresh the perks a little because now its pretty much the same 95% of all survivors you go against use dead hard the otehr 4.9% use no exhaustion perks and then we have those 0.1% who are SB chads
Both.
Dead Hard should NOT be an Exhaustion perk. Plain and simple.
Exhaustion perks punctuate chases. Dead Hard does not punctuate chases, plain and simple.
Exhaustion perks are contextual and require setup. Dead Hard does not require setup and is always useful.
Exhaustion perks are highly specific in application. Dead Hard has utility in every encounter.
Other Exhaustion perks can probably see a tiny buff, I wouldn't mind.
However, just make it so that Dead Hard is not among them - and has different drawbacks to consider other than the laughable exhaustion effect.
Sprint Burst, Balanced Landing, Lithe, Overcome, Smash Hit - these are specialty tools with oblong shapes and custom tooled tips designed to apply to niche jobs.
Dead Hard is the swiss army knife with a hammer, little magnifying glass, and a tiny gun too. It does everything.
The specialty tool and the multitool should have different drawbacks to their application. Trying to make them share a cost clearly and frankly does NOT work.
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Admirable, but I believe there are more eloquent solutions than cutting off limbs to make the body less crooked.
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Agreed.
I think Portraits should ALWAYS be involved, even if the emblem system is fixed or changed for the better.
The problem is that the information granted from emblems is worse than useless - it's loudly inaccurate.
Until emblems are either purely customization options - or reflect an actual, quantifiable game statistic - it's basically useless.
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I lean the other way.
Look, games have shown ranks, emblems, and tiles for EVER.
Black Ops 2.
You see the player's current rank. You see their emblem. You see their Tag. You see their banner.
Open up their profile with a button:
You see their Score Per Minute. You see their favored weapons. You see their every basic statistic.
The ranks aren't the problem. The problem is that there is a definitive LACK of clearly personal flare, and clearly INDESPUTABLE information.
When you see a private in BO2 and a Grandmaster in BO2 - you understand the difference in how much time was spent acquiring those levels. The Private is a noob who probably just bought the game, the Grandmaster has around 500 hours, perhaps more. True, some privates CAN be good... true, some Grandmasters CAN be boosted.
Dead By Daylight you can have a prop player in Ash, you can have a dweeb in IR1. It's a complete crapshoot.
In BO2 the emblem and the banner are custom to the player. They can make their own emblem and can choose from SEVERAL HUNDRED Banners. It is clear that some Banners or emblem options are more difficult to acquire than others, but they are purely cosmetic and are not indicative of player skill outside of certain regalia.
Dead By Daylight has no customization. The information shown is purely informational. However, it is not at all reflective of the truth in any such way.
The ranks / Emblems in Dead by Daylight do not at all paint a clear picture of a player's skill, a player's experience, or a player's exploits. Yet, they are brandished as some sort of badge of status.
They are status symbols with no status behind them, and nothing to symbolize.
This unapologetically horrendous design choice has made ranks a lose-lose. Players will get frustrated when they see disparity in these symbols, because they have nothing else to look at. But on the other hand, the emblems mean NOTHING. They aren't even good as bragging rights anymore.
Either rework the emblem system to MEAN something and reflect actual data on the player, or make it a cosmetic choice. Otherwise, don't bother having it in the game.
In reality, the post game lobby should have the survivor and killer picture on the side so that it is easier to recall who is who in the post-game chat without having to go to Options/matchsettings or whatever just to see which one was the Claud and which one was the Dwight.
Until you convey actual, legitimate, and concrete information with your badges - or make the badges cosmetic. Designate that area as character portraits.
Do the smart thing.
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A very spirited and highly creative insight. I commend your obvious brilliance and the evident work that you've put into this. Someone, somewhere, should probably hire you for presentations like this.
Sadly, though, I must disagree with the design principles of this killer. While thematically unparalleled - not only does this make the killer take a very long time to become a viable force in the game - but it also strangles the playstyle of the killer into a railroad. There is only ONE optimal way to play the killer.
I won't contest your drive, or what you put forward, but suffice to say - unless you spawn into the trial as the Xenomorph, the killer is simply NOT going to work.
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I wish, but the executives seem dead set.
Which is a shame, because the entire system would become a lot more attractive to everyone if it was simple a 'Blood-Points-Per-Minute' based matchmaking system with a hidden Karma value that it has a bias towards.
Good players are able to accrue 30k+ BP in the span of a few minutes. Bad players can go entire matches with less than 10k.
This would also have the benefit of giving Behavior plenty of reason to tweak scoring events to reward skilled playstyles and punish bad ones... with a Karma system that makes toxic players play with more toxic players, and wholesome players play with more wholesome ones - the better your 'karma' the faster your que times. The higher your average BPPM, the higher your opponents and teammate's BPPM.
Which also has the benefit of letting players know where their 'hidden' matchmaking score lies by simply letting them look at their post-match Bloodpoints.
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There needs to be a neat little pivot to make the perk just as good and reliable while also stunting its ubiquitous appeal.
The Red Stain NEEDS to stay. Good killers work around it well enough and can rely on it for mindgames. Also, Undetectable hides your red stain, such a change would be granting unlimited Undetectable buffs in chase. Not a thing.
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@Ula said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2890450#Comment_2890450
Or the skill check mechanic could be reworked to be more consistent.
I don't think increasing the odds of getting skill check would be the best solution, but it would be better than what we have now, so I'm down for this change.
My major issue with the current perk is that failing a skill check can actually be MORE BENEFICIAL than earning one in tight situations. That first check can condemn you and your entire team if put in a bad position.
I'd rather have slow healing than a prompt that takes a massive chunk of healing away. It makes things a lot less painful and a lot more consistent in the long run.
However, I think that something that can be done to give this effect a bit more to look forward to - is to cause a skill check prompt whenever you enter or exit the killer's terror radius. Healing and heartbeat starts? Auto skill check. Still healing and they back away? Another skill check. It would also reward you for using this perk on the fringe of a killer's reach rather than right in their face - or when you're in another zip code.
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@DriplordDrew said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892329#Comment_2892329
I was responding to someone saying that if they slugged one of the two last players if the other survivor does not try to heal the other survivor they (the standing survivor) should automatically die. If the killer is there and I know I won't be able to get them up safely I am not going to run in.
There is never, ever, EVER a situation in this game where a survivor should - in any case - automatically die.
Apart from end game collapse, being the actual END of the game, this should never be a consideration.
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I think there should be BP costs for bad things that go into a special 'Karma' pool and create a score.
The more bad, toxic things you do (Like DC early) - low Karma - the fewer BP you earn, the longer your que times are, and the MMR system tries to put you with similar Karma level people.
The more good, wholesome things you do (Like earn a 'props' - high Karma - the more BP you earn, the shorter your que times, and the MMR system will try to put you with other wholesome people.
Then, every day, this value gets a little closer to 0 in exponential fashion. So your bad karma goes away if you don't do bad things, and your good Karma doesn't stay if you don't overtly make it an objective.
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@dinomazing said:
I feel you, but I also thought the question was purely addressing the "thumbs up" thing you can do after a match.
Like matchmaking could be a combination of both mmr and who has the most props.
I didn't get from it that people would be punished for having (often arbitrary) reports against them. It just seemed like a way to utilize the props system.
That would be a lovely addition. Perhaps for every 'Props' you get +5,000 on your 'Toxic' score and enjoy the fruits of lower Que times and matches with other more positive people.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892963#Comment_2892963
My big problem is that survs demand I ignore the unhooked guy even when I just stumble over them while searching. Should I let them run past me
If you're "searching" it's completely different than being faced - and ignoring - a body block situations within 10 seconds of an unhook.
Toxic survivors think that hitting them after 60 seconds off the hook, or if they touch an objective is in some, weird way, you're still 'tunneling'.
The only thing that matters is the first 10 seconds.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892836#Comment_2892836
Camping, tunneling and slugging are sometimes viable strategies against SWF using comms. They don't always work anyway if the team is good.
You deem it toxic trying to kill people as a killer?
Yeah against soloq it can be unfair if your team is rubbish. It's not the killers fault either if your team is rubbish or didn't bring BT or DS.
I yawn at these words!
I understand there are exceptions when a killer can do one hit downs all the time around a hook. They should fix that.
Even then just do gens and get out.
Doesn't make a fun game but then neither does a comm squad for killer.
Tell me you don't play killer without telling me you don't play killer.
Also.
Tell me you don't have profound reading comprehension without - why am I even bothering, you're clearly not reading this right now.
You're making an overt generalization to 'win' on a specific example. Why am I wasting my time.
@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892836#Comment_2892836
I still think the whole tunneling thing gets pushed to hard. If you get tunneld right from the hook then it either a camping problem or a bad unhook from your mate. If i get the notification and come to the hook and you guys sit under the hook for sure I go for the injured one why should I go for the healthy one that needs two hits and give you time to heal up? Do you guys do that with gens to? Do you walk past a 80% done gen and say nahh?
All the other things are toxic I'm totally with you but I think people come up with tunneling way tu quick when it's just the smart thing to say hey I see two guys but I kno if I catch nea she's out of the game
Tunneling is all about the instance.
First off - if it's been a hot 5 seconds, you're not tunneling off of hook.
If you're forgoing injuring teammates and bulldozing to get to the unhooked survivor - yeah, you're tunneling. And, honestly, the game should probably slap you across the wrist.
If your prime example of apex killer gameplay is placing a survivor on a hook within 30 seconds of their ally unhooking them, that's not just pitiful, it's reckless.
Also - if you're making the judgement call to chainsaw someone to the ground as they are pulled off hook and put them back on there, BT and DS be damned... then you should probably be willing to eat the -600 BP fine. You're walking away with thousands, you can't take 600 off the top?
And that 600 won't be a big deal if you just DONT keep doing that all the time.
It's seldom that the person being unhooked is the greatest priority in the match bar none - especially with the perks in play with the meta where it is.
You try swinging for the unhooked survivor - you ready to eat BT, DH, DS, or another flashlight save? You realize that it's more efficient to kill momentum if you hit the unhooker, right? You're getting a health state without having to worry about the 3 most common perks working against you.
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I believe the old form was bad enough. It should never, EVER be sent back to where it was.
Gotham deserves a new breed of criminal - and we're going to give it to them.
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Grunts of pain and breathing sounds of healthy, injured, and dying survivors are increased by 30/40/50%.
Your breathing and vocal sounds are decreased by 30/40/50%
Survivors within your terror radius do not recover from Exhaustion or Broken status effects.
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By making the perk directly better than before, it becomes much more attractive for those who benefit from audio cues to find survivors - especially in chase. The secondary benefit is the cherry on top. The ability to have lower breathing and vocal sounds greatly boosts the stealth aspects of many ambush killers, and can throw off many veteran survivors that rely on such contextual audio to pinpoint the killer’s location. But the creme dela creme that makes the perk attractive is the ability to juggle and float debuff timers on exhaustion and broken - making it much more difficult for survivors to make plays without recourse. Limiting the use of powerful perks and keeping survivors unable to recover from brokenness makes this perk incredibly strong to quell perks that would otherwise punctuate chases in the survivor’s favor. Survivors themselves do not necessarily rely on the recovery of these statuses to continue in the game, which means that broken and exhausted players will be forced to retreat far and away from your sphere of influence if they wish for reprieve. The discovery of this perk will make survivors think twice about using their perks - as the recovery on choice selections will grow quite punitive in nature.