Valik
Valik
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The payment.
I'm okay with the effect the perk has. I just want survivors to be forced to consider its drawbacks before equipping it.
Each perk has some sort of a price or counter, Dead Hard has no such thing - aside from that it has a shared cooldown with other strong perks via the Exhaustion status.
However, survivors must be made to weigh their options and play around things of such power - and the killer should be able to keep tabs on it in such situations instead of having to juggle timers in their mind. Players should be made to avoid using Dead Hard unless they MUST. It should not be a 'get out of jail free' card, it should come with a very real drawback that can land them in trouble down the line if they are not prepared to adjust to the consequences of the perk's employ.
This is the kind of perk that, if used poorly, can ruin your game and send you back to que faster than ever. It should also be a perk that, when a team focuses on keeping it viable, can win games - as it currently does in spades.
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I think increasing the FOV by 5 would be a nice olive branch for all of our brothers and sisters out there who are feeling such a struggle.
It's not nearly as good, but I'd also suggest... you know... BUFFING Shadowborn?
Keep the FOV change, just make it a bit more viable so that people with motion sickness don't have to play with 3 perks, you know.
Just give it a nice update in accordance with the 5 degree FOV upgrade. It doesn't have to be amazing, just a little something.
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The darkness has become your ally.
Slightly increase game brightness and lower contrast.
Increase field of view by 10 degrees – this may stack.
While undetectable, gain 1/2/3% movement speed and become slightly transparent.
Become Undetectable for 8 seconds after being stunned.
“It moves as one with the shadows.”
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There are two approaches one can take to Shadowborn. One camp states that the FOV increased is for those who have difficulty playing the game, that its visuals cause sickness and nausea – making this perk ideal for those who suffer. Another camp suggests that the increase is to counteract the tunnel vision effect that accompanies Undetectable, which may explain why it’s in the Wraith’s kit. Why not both. By increasing the viewing angle and brightness – it can quickly become a needed perk for many killer players without breaking the game. It will also be valuable for matchups against blending survivors. 3% haste while Undetectable is a solid buff to basically all stealth killers, and has great synergy potential for many perks. By giving the perk a way to reliably gain Undetectable, it remains a viable option for killers without Undetectable in their kit, or perks that support it. The primary reason behind making the killer slightly transparent while Undetectable is not simply thematic, it also allows aware survivors to see that this perk is in effect, and plan accordingly. When they see a Ghostface become slightly transparent after popping Night Shroud, survivors will know when to play loops safer. By giving killers a way to benefit while Undetectable – and giving Killer players with handicaps a means to play, it allows for more engaging gameplay without outright breaking the game.
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I like this idea, because it allows you to force the perk into effect at certain points. But, in reality, it steals a lot of the power away from you and puts the perk in the same bin as Scourge Hook: Gift Of Pain.
A lot of survivors, especially later in ranks, simply will NOT heal.
If you want to bet on a survivor healing in order to save themselves the indignity of injury, play as Plague - at later levels, survivors run you ragged and will NEVER heal.
Don't place the power of this perk into the Obsession's ability to return to full health, because not only does this make the perk COMPLETELY UNUSABLE with some killers. ( Plague... Bubba - why heal... Legion - why heal... Pig- you get the point ) But it also means that it becomes veritably UNUSABLE in many games with wise crack survivors as well. If you're lucky enough to find the Obsession, if you LET THEM get away, they're going to have their allies take protection hits for them if need be, but they will also often throw themselves in harms way, knowing you wouldn't dare assail your precious Obsession, because you NEED them to be healed back to full to see value in 25% of your perks.
You have to make the perk both thematic and practical. You want killer players to feel the burning need to PLAY with their obsession and TOY with them. You also want to give them a significant enough reason to do so - as many times the Obsession can be hard to find or difficult to pin down. You want survivors to be briefly confused, and perhaps horrified as they helplessly watch you extract the power from this perk to a deadly effect.
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You relish the chase against your favorite prey, you prefer to let them slip away before you close in for the kill once more.
Tokens grant 1.5/2/2.5% movement speed.
Gain up to 8 tokens.
Gain 2 tokens when the Obsession escapes in chase. Lose all tokens if the Obsession is put into the Dying state by any means.
Lose 1 token after making a melee or special attack.
While within 4 meters of the Obsession 2 tokens when you:
- Hit a non-obsession survivor.
- Preform a breaking action
- Miss an attack or special attack.
This perk has a 15 second cooldown after losing chase with the Obsession - during which time it cannot gain tokens.
(Change art to incorporate Michael Meyers)
"You've fooled them, haven't you Michael? But not me." — Dr. Sam Loomis
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A little convoluted, yes. But There is a method to the madness. The main problem with Play With Your Food as is lies with its stringent and archaic design that does not mix with the core philosophy of the game today. Tokens, M1 attacks, can be chewed through like candy – A single survivor can absorb 4 or more given the right circumstances, 3 tokens are not ever going to cut it – especially with killers that sport special attacks, which bleed these tokens rapidly. Without a better way to gain tokens – the most that meta players can do is either cheese the system to accumulate tokens – which lacks grace and survivors can clearly understand what’s happening – or they will simply leave chases with the Obsession in order to get a singular 5% movement speed buff for a few seconds before using it in chase. Having to lose 3 chases for a temporary 15% speed boost is not attractive, which is why this perk is dead on arrival. Meyers stalks his prey and instills great horror in them at every chance he gets – not only is this a golden opportunity for theming, but it makes for fun gameplay. We will increase the rewards, up to 20% movement speed over several weapon swings – however, the Killer must be intentional to use them wisely. For this perk to work right, the killer must stalk the Obsession and toy with them – baiting them with swings and throwing their chases, all while hurting those who are nearby. Any and all who are foolish enough to take a protection hit do not slow you, they are only kindling for your tyranny. You can play this perk like it used to be played for basically double the yield of its previous incarnation – but by truly toying with the Obsession and maintaining an Oppressive mentality towards them, the killer can become truly powerful into the late game. It is especially useful on M1 killers that rely on basic attacks to secure hits in tight loops.
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Nah. It's a mini Boon bonus.
Highly contextual - intended to be both difficult and stringent.
It's 4 hooks so that if you kill all 3 survivors on scourge hooks, you still have 1 for the final boi.
That being said. 15% regression on a hook is not supposed to be easy or free. I'm more than fine with the hooks being in odd places.
I'd rather the direction go for higher potency than greater volume.
If the extremes are 'Completely regress a generator to nothing if you can get a survivor to the ONE hook' or 'Hooking a survivor causes a little 3% bump on the generator that's so small it goes 'eep' and doesn't even explode'... I'll take the former.
Keep the effects big and the hook pool small, thank you.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892684#Comment_2892684
Keys and maps should be reworked (maybe medkits too now that CoH and new hemorrhage exist) but I don't think we need new items, even less ones that are pvp based. On the contrary I think the problem with items being redundant or worse than perks is bc BVHR wanted item diversity, I can't see weapons for survivors ever being put in the game (and if it was killer mains would riot and it would be scraped or nerfed to the ground). With so many players complaining about "bully swf with flashlights", allowing them to have melee weapons would not go well within the community, and would have too much of an impact on the game's balance.
I firmly disagree.
Firstly, any idea can be balanced if you model it around player behavior and encourage counterplay. Risk and reward. Not saying that it WILL be implemented, but variety is the spice of life.
Maps should show an actual minimap. Rainbow map should be done away with and there should be a red 'Rainbow' addon to the map that allows it to track everything.
Skeleton key should be removed and become a red attachment for the dull key. Allows for the hatch to spawn in the trial when there is 1 generator remaining. Only the key holder can see the hatch.
Toolkits should have lower repair speed buffs, more charges, and a conversion rate into 'Total Repair' - an idea put forward by Otz to give a generator repair progress that cannot be regressed. Brand New Part adds 0.5 to the repair conversion, potentially giving the toolbox 100% repair efficiency, making the progress made with it impossible to regress.
Medkits should take a few seconds longer to heal one's self and offer greatly increased healing for allies.
Flashlights need not but increased range.
Allowing survivors to use items to toy with the killer while exposing them to increased danger and forcing them to spend more time AWAY from generators to find their value - this is GOOD.
If a survivor runs to shack and spends 5 seconds finding just the RIGHT spot to place a heavy trap before going back to the gen. It's already good for the killer that the survivor is wasting their time doing something - ANYTHING other than repair. The trap can be found and destroyed, but if it works for the survivors, they may find a return on their time investment.
If a survivor runs up to the killer and begins the awkward animation to attack them - the killer can easily avoid it and answer the attempt with a condemning rebuttal from their main weapon. If a survivor tries to bait a parry, the killer can hold off for a split second and attack after to place them on the ground. Sure, survivors may coordinate to use their weapons, breaking that baseball bat against the killer for a cheeky stun when they least expect it. But the survivor searched a chest for the item - came away from a generator and had to time the swing perfectly to stun the killer when they least expect it. At that point, the killer can't be too upset. Sure, the stun sucks. But a 3 second stun to get another survivor in the chase, wasting precious time to back up their ally - wasting an item. It's a lot more fun and interesting to play with and against than a boring flashlight or medkit.
You never know, maybe Hoarder might become a good pick on killer if survivors ever had a reason in the universe to search them.
Besides.
Franklin's Demise exists.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892677#Comment_2892677
Its a thought but a lot of what you describe as toxic is only subjectively so.
Sadly it can't play a role in MMR or any real impact on your opponent as much of what gets called toxic really isn't. It can be obnoxious but that doesn't make it inherently toxic.
Without a clearly defined idea of what's toxic people will keep reporting others purely because they are unhappy, and a lot of that unhapiness stems from loss, or worse a pre-conceived idea of how someone should play the game.
Unfortunately its vindictive sore losers that are usually calling each other toxic and they will be abusing the system. Objective outcome based MMR is the only thing that works everything else is marred by emotion.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892685#Comment_2892685
You could definitely reward people with a rep systrem for props, but yeah it has no place dictating MMR or punitively stripping BP's/shard from people.
Okay, so you have said that the following things are NOT toxic:
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Killer tunneling, killer face-camping, killer kebabbing, Killer 4 slugging, Killer disconnecting after the first couple of chases.
Survivor leading chase to unsuspecting allies, survivor hook bombs, survivors that hostage the game to taunt, survivor assisting the killer, survivor disconnecting after first chase.
Players that accrue several complaints over a long period of time.
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You are saying that these things are NOT toxic.
To be clear.
You do NOT think that the ABOVE things qualify as TOXIC behavior?
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@Whoudini said:
Does anyone else agree that one of the big main (like over 60%) of the issues is map design?
I am not going to ignore any other issues but I do think that one of the biggest is the design of most maps. For example Mother's dwelling does not need to be as big as it is. It does not make the game anymore fun for survivor, but equally most killers are immediately at a disadvantage (a very noticeable one at that).
A map like badham preschool is also problematic. Not because of the size, but because of the incredibly strong structures it has. House of pain is one and the two story house requires the breaking of both walls for most killers to be able to chase in it. This is just two examples, there are many more.
If the big maps were shrunk and the maps with too safe of setups were made less safe, I feel like the game balance overall would be much better and also people would just have more fun overall.
Thoughts?
Map design is pretty bad overall. There needs to be a serious font of creativity that overtakes the studio and inspires them to make things a little more... creative.
I've seen amazing forum posts that make the game sound like it would be a colorful place of rainbows and fun if I could play the game with different types of vaults and pallets, different obstacles and objectives. But the best we've seen in the past 6 years are breakable walls... laaame.
IMO 40% of the game's issues is the game's focus on matchmaking (and a very under intelligent approach to it) and 50% of ALL problems (if not MORE) is only trash perks.
Not even kidding.
If perks were not so poorly designed and such trash, this game would be in a golden era.
I'd rather see busted survivors and killers with hundreds of perks and thousands of amazing combinations and interactions than the same 5-10 meta perks being taken on each.
When's the last time you saw someone take Territorial Imperative? Monstrous Shrine? Beast Of Prey? Third Seal? Did you even remember that Bloodhound was a perk?
When's the last time you saw someone take Buckle Up? Up The Ante? Technician? I bet you money you forgot Sole Survivor was a thing that existed.
There are 104 survivor perks, but only 17 of them get any actual screen time.
For each 'good' survivor perk that you see in just about every match, there are 6 bad ones. 6. SIX.
One 'meta' loadout holds its equivalent weight of 24 'lesser' perks. THAT IS ENOUGH TO EQUIP 6 SURVIVORS WITH INDIVIDUAL PERKS.
The next time you see a room of 4 survivors running 'meta' perks from the pool of the top 17 most used, that means that that lobby is worth its weight in 96 'lame' perks.
The lack of value in these garbage perks means there is so much lacking variety. You're missing out on amazing combinations and exciting plays. All of the good stuff in the game hasn't even been made yet, because it's still in the dead tissue of the lost and forgotten perks. Beast Of Prey could become a super good perk on killers and make chases intense. Buckle Up could make risky saves into an unexpected thrill-ride. But no, we are trapped with mediocrity.
The maps are not great, but they're mostly 'meh'. They are but the playgrounds.
To hell with the playground. Let me play with the toys that you have yet to create. For even the lowliest of playgrounds can be made interesting with the advent of good toys and a bit of imagination.
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BOONS: Yes. Boons should be a 1 time use from survivors. The first totem they cleanse becomes their boon - when the killer snuffs it. (SOUND EFFECT PLEASE! YES!) it breaks as a cleansed totem would. To compensate, totems are much quieter and actually have a gentle 'chime' sound in its radius that becomes slightly louder the closer you become to the totem. Within 4 meters, the Boon lightly emits the original 'Eternal ghost nail on ghost chalkboard' sound effect)
DEATHSLINGER: I disagree. Just bring back his normal ADS and make the shots wildly inaccurate unless he holds it down a little first. A lot more fun that way. Also - let him have a 4 round magazine that he reloads at lockers. A long enough reload animation will give survivors time to breathe, especially if he times it poorly.
CLOWN: 4 bottles of each kind with no cooldown on switch. Reload at lockers. Keeps him much faster paced with easy switches and forces him to take little time-outs between chases to cool down on his increased pressure from the volume of bottles.
TRAPPER: Oho... Nonono my friend. Start with 2 bear traps with 5 others spread out through the trial. Can 'trap' pallets with an animation to make them spring back if pulled down without being disarmed by a survivor. Can 'trap' breakable walls to make them break when walked through. Can 'trap' Hooks to turn into rope traps that restrain survivors (Break on use). Can 'Trap' vaults, injuring a healthy survivor that preforms a rushed action. Can 'trap' a locker to make it lock a survivor in for 5 seconds once entered. All traps can be disarmed by survivors.
Trapper needs more traps. More FUN ones that he takes time to set up. He needs to be the killer that can get lost setting up creative pitfalls and executing them afterwards. Survivors can always thwart his efforts - but throwing down that pallet, only to hear that 'bungie' sound and see it fly back as the Trapper flies through. Priceless. He may lose matches from setup time alone. But I'd rather have a fun killer that loses games than a boring killer that wins them. *Cough Cough - ARTIST - Cough Cough*
MAP WEATHER: I personally HATE this idea. Maps are memories lost in the lucid dreams of the Entity's victims. They should remain in that dream state. However, I wish each map had a different weather effect. I want a map that has heavy rain and a loud storm brewing.
NEW MAP SUGGESTION: YES. YES PLEASE. MAKE THIS A THING!
COMBINE/IMPROVE UNDER-USED/WEAK PERKS IF POSSIBLE:
Not bad, not bad, But I'll do you one better.
Rework the perks to be ACTUALLY useful!
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Territorial Imperative:
After a lifetime of protecting your home, you’ve awakened instincts that none would have imagined.
While within 8 Meters of the basement, gain bloodlust points passively and never lose them.
Gain maximum Bloodlust while in the Basement.
See the auras of survivors in the basement at all times.
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Monstrous Shrine:
(Pick your favorite of the three:)
When a survivor is unhooked from the Basement while you are further than 24 meters away, the Entity blocks Survivors from entering or exiting the Basement for 10/15/20 seconds and renders them Incapacitated for the duration.
This effect ends early if the killer enters the basement.
60 second cooldown.
(or)
Survivors are affected by the Oblivious status effect while in the Killer basement, and any act of altruism within takes 100% longer to complete.
For each survivor hooked in the basement, decrease the End Game timer by 18 seconds and increase Entity progress on all hooks by 1/2/3%
(OR)
When a survivor is hooked on a Scourge hook, all other hooked survivors gain a hook state instantly.
The Hooks in the basement count as Scourge Hooks.
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SYNERGIZE EXPLOSIVE DAMAGE AND KICKING DAMAGE: No. A million times no. Pop and Echoes of Pain will instantly regress the most important generator by 40%. Hard pass.
SYNERGIZE OPPRESSION DAMAGE AND OTHER DAMAGE PERKS: No, just make it re-trigger on failed skill checks and blow regressing gens for 4% with a 60 second cooldown or something. In such a case, survivors that miss will create a chain reaction of explosions and skill checks that can continue for a little while and wreak havoc. I'd pay money to see this incarnation of the perk in effect.
PENTIMENTO: LOL! Ok, I like the prison door slamming shut idea. Def a thing. But they should just make the 1st totem a taster that synergizes with protecting the totems - and make the rest of the totems accrue more power instead of starting out with the most powerful effect.
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You are skilled and bringing out the life in that which has been destroyed.
The aura of destroyed totems is revealed to you.
You can rekindle destroyed totems into hex totems.
1 Totem – When survivors are interrupted from cleansing a hex totem, the totem is blocked by the Entity for 60 seconds.
2 Totems – Repair Speed, Healing, Opening, and Recovery speed of all survivors is reduced by 5/10/15%
3 Totems – Reduction is increased to 10/20/30%
4 Totems – Reduction is increased to 15/30/45%
5 Totems – All Totems are blocked by the Entity Indefinitely.
Once a Pentimento Hex totem is destroyed, the remains are dissolved by the Entity.
~
Encouraging the killer to pick up the pieces is strong, and the most powerful part of this perk is the entity block – which is why the first totem erected should be a miniature version of this. In truth, it is next to impossible to get all 5 totems up – as survivors will target the totems and harass them to great effect. However, chasing them away from your precious totems will allow a semblance of breathing room, as the survivors are forced out and away from the totem with only a hope to return to it later if interrupted. This has strong synergies by its own merit. The other issue is that the totems had hefty penalties that started out strong and quickly faded in strength. By making the power of the hex ramp up, it keeps pressure on the killer to find more totems to rebuild. The 4 totem benefit is much, much greater than the previous 4 totem benefit because it is incredibly rare to have such an occasion. With the aid of the first totem, it may become easier – but in truth, this perk is a deterrent that rewards a surging playstyle. Instead of building up totems as they fall, the killer should leave areas that have no hexes and wait for the survivors to cleanse (Which they hopefully will – and this will be a far more viable perk if boon totems broke when snuffed). High risk and high reward mentality that makes survivors think twice before cleansing totems – or blessing them once the inevitable fix comes out.
THIRD SEAL: I wish. But the devs want all of the Hag's perks to be Hex ones - logic be damned. Unfortunately, we're going to have to make this perk work as a Hex - which means it has to be a significant threat that needs to be cleansed rather than ignored.
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A hex that roots itself in the aura-reading ability of survivors. You exploit your prey’s reliance on intuition and insight – rendering them stupefied before you.
Hitting a unique survivor with an attack grants a token up to 2/3/4 and afflicts them with this Curse.
1 token – Survivors are blinded
2 tokens – Survivors have much of their HUD removed
3 tokens – Survivors cannot see progress bars or any HUD element other than skill checks.
4 tokens – The killer becomes Undetectable.
“She touched your skin, it’s too late for you now!”
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THRILL OF THE HUNT: I agree with the dev's choice to get rid of the audio - because it was the original was a bit cheesy and could be exploited to make games endlessly frustrating for survivors. The devs put a bandaid on a bad perk. It should be reworked to make dull totems a favorite of the killer, and a priority for survivors.
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A Hex rooting its power in despair. Your totems feed your instincts, and those who interfere fall into your deadly sights.
Survivors have their auras revealed while they are within 2/4/6 meters of a totem.
Cleansing speed of all survivors is reduced by 20/25/30%
“Get back! If you touched it, the beast is already on its way!”
~
This perk has a bad rap. Similar to Undying, it is only useful as a support perk for other totems. However, by reallocating Undying’s aura read to this, it revolutionizes it into a brand new hybrid that changes how Killers and Survivors interact with this perk. Survivors will always know when this perk is active when they try to cleanse a totem – revealing its curse and notifying them that the killer has likely been watching their aura. The 30% speed debuff is nice, as it lends to the traditional intention of Thrill as an anti-cleansing perk. However, the main strength is its combination with the generous and constant Aura read effect. This makes the hex totem a powerful perk that becomes a priority for survivors in the game – once they realize its effect, they will endeavor to cleanse totems to negate the aura reading effect, while also changing how killers treat totems. The Thrill of the Hunt is about maintaining your totems – yes even the dull totems – as they are valuable assets. In high levels of play, the Hex itself is still at risk – but astute killers will always be trying to protect their assets. By bringing this perk, the killer runs the risk of having it cleansed – but while it is up, it adds an entire new level of play around totems that will shake up any match it’s in.
NO MITHER: Nonono. This perk needs a complete overhaul. Not sure how to do it right, but this thing needs to become some sort of perk that gets you broken and rewards you for staying broken.
SOLIDARITY: Too broken, and doesn't fix the main issue. Solidarity only finds value when you're 1. Injured. 2. Healing someone first. 3. Not using a medkit.
You're going to need to make it a viable pick to use while uninjured, because you'd be surprised how many times you're healing up somebody when you're the only healthy person in the room.
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While healing another survivor, heal yourself at a rate of 50%.
For each health allied health state healed, gain a token up to 4/3/2.
When there are no healthy survivors left in the trial, and you are at max tokens, they are consumed and you are restored to full health over 16 seconds.
(Damage taken during this time cancels the effect. If Dying, Restored to Injured in 8 seconds and restored to Healthy in another 8)
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LEFT BEHIND: Nonono. My friend, my friend, listen. The hatch - she aint nothing. If you're bringing this perk, you're banking 25% of your game on being the last one alive. Even if you bring this perk, you may not even be near hatch and get a bad run of RNG. Even Even if you find the hatch, the killer can get there before you. Even Even Even if you make it to end game - this perk isn't going to help you much, regardless of everything, you might as well take Wake Up.
You're going to want to have a perk that gives you a quantifiable benefit for such a situation as when you... are left behind.
~
This perk becomes active when you are the only survivor remaining in the match, or the End Game Collapse has begun.
See the aura of the Killer and the Hatch when they are within 16/24/32 meters.
When another survivor leaves the match or dies, you are instantly healed for a health state.
~
Giving wall hacks to survivors and a free health state when their friends die or get out of dodge, this perk can become pretty powerful. It can even be coordinated to a stupefying effect by numerous survivors. However, in practicality, this incarnation of the perk shines when you are at your most desperate moments at the very punctuation of the match. When you are the last one, or the forgotten one. Dying on the floor as your last living teammate leaves you for dead and another just died on hook? Congrats, you’ve been left behind - you’re restored to full health. The counter to this perk is in its own name - the killer is going to have to make this survivor the one that gets left behind. The perk, however, loses all of its potential when the opposite is true. When the killer either takes out the designated survivor before the end game arrives, or if they focus on other players during the final moments of the match. In reality, this can be seen as an ‘Adrenaline on drugs’ but can only be triggered in very particular situations. End game builds will have to contend with the healing as the final kills are mounted, but so long as the exit gates remain closed and the survivors are trapped as a group within - the perk refuses to shine its true colors, making it a true value pick for anyone who plans on making a clutch play.
OPPRESSION: I think I kinda wrote too much about this one in an above segment. I tend to do that.
THANATOPHOBIA: YES! YES YES YES! Ahhh. I'm so glad someone agrees. There are some other creative approaches that can be taken with this perk. But by simply allowing a stack (or even half of a stack) to remain after death, it would make this a valuable pick in any situation - not just Legion players and Plague mains.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk. I love having these conversations.
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Not a bad idea - but it would unfortunately ruin the game. I'll get to that part later.
First, let's talk about the economy of Dead Hard.
Let's ignore Exhaustion until later - and start talking about prerequisites.
The prerequisite of unhooking someone is arbitrary, and it DOES allow for some players to find utility with the perk - but it demands action upon action, without falling in line with the theme or true problems of the perk.
The issue with Dead Hard is that it is FREE. Every 40 seconds out of chase or so, it can be used. Survivors feel no actual impact to it being employed. As killer... if you leave the chase when a survivor uses the perk, you're doubly screwed - because the player will just heal up in a corner with CoH or a medkit and be ready to repeat the fruitless chase in a matter of seconds. In order for the killer to recuperate lost value, they are forced to double down on the chase, or chalk it all up as a veritable loss.
Your 'unhooking' approach to this is to force survivors to pay it forward in order to have the option of use in the first place. A nice approach, but I fear that it may become too contextual and clunky to find value in the survivor's hands - and ultimately leads to worse gameplay... more hook bombs and survivors sitting by hooks instead of sitting on generators - while killers will camp hooks and prioritize the unhooked one rather than the unhooker - radically undoing the positive gameplay inspired by BT. In addition, going for the unhook is risky - meaning you may find more uses of Dead Hard as the unhooker, but you are also more likely to die. They pay it forward, but it can both be an easy trade if the hook is not contested - or a lopsided trade if it is not. It's either absolute value, or a concessional value.
It's a solid concept. But it is flawed. I think there's a more eloquent solution though.
Broken.
Use Dead Hard as usual, once injured. And the player becomes Broken for 60 seconds. This perk cannot be used again until restored to the Healthy state. Cannot be used while Broken.
Bam.
Survivors get to use their precious perk, same as always, but now they can't make a quick getaway and heal back up. Now, they can't have the perk without consequences. This limits the amount used - and is very team-dependent as well as item thirsty. Survivors can still skulk away to heal, but only after 1 minute of having to live with the consequences of their actions. No more will survivors use their Dead-Hard poorly, get hooked - use Deliverance - then use DH again to evade a vengeful rebuttal to the play. No. Now, you use Dead Hard - you cant use other Broken perks. You can leave chase, but you're not going to be able to heal up to re-use it. What, no more charges in the medkit or boons? Teammates occupied? You're going to need at least 16 seconds of healing to get your perk back.
Killers in chase may even leave a survivor out of a Dead Hard sighting. They already got the health state and don't have to waste their time, they can always come back later to finish the job - and the perk will be deactivated until healed... which also lets killers know exactly when certain survivors have it or not. The perk retains its overall use, but is limited in frequency, and killers feel like they can plainly see on their HUD when they can expect it to be brought back into play.
Dead Hard can single handedly win games by denying hooks and standoffs. It is honestly one of - if not THE most versatile and useful perk in the survivor's arsenal. But by forcing players to remain Broken, and tying its use to being restored to full health - the perk demands a certain level of devotion and upkeep to utilize properly. In the hands of a poor player, the Broken status will be their undoing. In a coordinated team, the perk can still be used to great effect with sufficient foresight and consideration.
All the perks of the unhooking prerequisite without the finite limitations, the jarring shift, the toxic gameplay, the horrible backlash, or the paranoia.
@RakNieborakYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2889337#Comment_2889337
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2889343#Comment_2889343
I love this idea actually. What needs to be added that it, should require a safe hook rescue. Now it's very easy to get these unhooks safely actually, unless you farm. So, if you selfishly farm only for DH, be sure you won't get it. The issue here would be BT. And here I wouls also give an additional suggestion to a BT change. Borrowed Time stays inactive for 10 when a survivor just got hooked.
It just makes the game a lot more convoluted at that point. Safe unhooks typically grant things like Deliverance - a 1 time use niche perk.
If you require a SAFE UNHOOK to use this CHASE PERK - you're going to be going into unhooks with the wrong reasons and coming out with even worse ones. Running Borrowed Time Dead Hard will be absolutely broken, as killers will have to choose between chasing an unhooker that likely has Dead Hard who will be injured once, and then use the perk to extend the chase to around 45-60 seconds.
OR
The killer can just walk behind the unhooked survivor and wait 12 seconds to M1 them.
By giving a powerful chase perk to a safe unhook - you made the entire Dead By Daylight Killer community default to chasing the unhooked survivor.
This change would make killers hyper tunnel over night.
@Annso_x said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2889580#Comment_2889580
I mean obviously if dead hard worked with tokens (a token per safe unhook) it would be much less used and four survivors using it wouldn't be very practical considering only one can unhook at a time. Honestly way less dead hards vs sprint burst + dead hards seem like a fair trade, but I'm assuming a lot of people would disagree
I do disagree.
The one thing is - Sprint Burst + Dead Hard would not be so ugly if Dead Hard itself required sufficient payment and consideration.
As a lame example, if using Dead Hard caused you to be Hindered by 15% for 10 seconds after its use with a 1 minute cooldown, that would make it a horrible perk to run in chase, but make it excellent for last-ditch efforts and tight loops. Giving the killer a greater advantage than Bloodlust 3 is massive. If this were the case, killers really, REALLY wouldn't mind if players took Sprint Burst and DH every game - because the use of DH would be incredibly nerfed in many situations. It would not be 'free'. In truth, Sprint Burst is nowhere near as bad as many people give it credit for.
DH is 'free' in terms of what it accomplishes. I frames for exhaustion means it can be recycled through the effects of normal gameplay. It can literally be used twice in a row in the span of 15 seconds if you DH into a hook, die, get hooked and hook-bombed, then use it off the hook.
Exhaustion is a currency for chases disengagements. However, DH is NOT a chase disengagement tool - it is a powerful, POWERFUL utility that requires a completely different economy of its own. Preferably that of health states, seeing as it gives a virtual health state on correct use.
@Rezblaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2889614#Comment_2889614
I was thinking about applying it after an Unhook, but I think that wouldn't change the frequency we are seeing Dead Hards, which I think is kinda the point.
Sure, it still eliminates it in the early game, but by principle, you're still looking to hook every survivor. After you hooked every survivor once, it essentially becomes Dead Hard as it is now.
Requiring a rescue gives it a few other factors. For one, you aren't given it for free, and getting hooked yourself isn't earning you anything; you have to stay alive and contribute to be able to use it.
This also means the best way to counter the use of Dead Hard is to camp survivors and deny health states.
If the economy of the game's most lucrative survivor perk is to create safe unhooks, the killer's best bet us to tunnel unhooked survivors and camp them to ensure there are no unhooks available.
You're signing a blank check to all the toxic killers, sadly.
It's a good idea, but it has some major, MAJOR issues.
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Yeah, Devs should see this.
Although, you probably are better off posting this in bugs and fixes than in this subforum.
Thanks for the positive attention!
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Just inject bots when a player DCs.
Having a bot is a LOT better than having nobody anyhow. It's better for everyone to earn as many BP as possible with a bot than to force everyone to vote - get frustrated - perhaps quit and re-que.
Having a bot take over is a lot more attractive than having everyone go to a vote and have a miniature trial to waste time kicking back to the back of the playing line.
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I actually really, really like this idea.
I tried to rack my mind for an upgrade to this perk - but I found it quite problematic.
The best I could come up with is some way to hold 2 separate items at once. (Hold a Toolbox and a medkit) but you can only take 1 into the trial yourself. Which - may sound enticing, but I always thought it may be clunky if implemented improperly.
Seeing all survivor perks in play and having all other survivors is super good!
But, in truth, it finds limited viability in SWF - which mean's it's gotta get better.
If this perk revealed to you (and only you) all killer perks over the course of the match - it could be a game changer, especially in SWF. Just adding a "You can see the killer's perks on you HUD - every 180/120/90 seconds, one perk is revealed to you." would make this a super strong pick in both SWF and Solo.
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They really should be looking at other ways to mix up the ways that survivor items are treated and what they have.
They should also have 'Heavy Traps' which are bear traps specific to the killer - and perhaps melee weapons that can stun the killer or tank a hit if used correctly, but are very difficult to time right.
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Make a toxicity value. When players accrue these points, they lose BP and give the points to those who are negatively effected by this choice. Victims receive a small bonus at the end of the match, and the 'toxic points' go into a little bank that MMR takes into account when matchmaking the player.
-100 BP for every 10 seconds the killer stands within 8 meters of the hook after being within that radius for 15 seconds total. (CAMPER)
-100 BP for every time the killer hits a hooked survivor past 2. (KABAB)
-100 BP for Hitting a survivor within 15 seconds of them being unhooked. (TUNNEL VISION)
-Hooking a survivor within 15 seconds of their unhook is -500 BP score. (BLIND FOCUS)
-100 BP for every 15 consecutive seconds a survivor lays bleeding on the ground. (GRIEFER)
-100 BP per second in chase if the killer hits a survivor working on a generator while in chase with you. (RAT)
-100 BP for each second lingering in an exit area or next to a hatch after 5 seconds while being the only survivor remaining in the match (HOSTAGE)
-100 BP for each second T-bagging in an exit area while the killer is within 16 meters. (TAUNTING)
-250 BP for a toxicity report. (DISPLEASURE)
-1,000 BP if a survivor dies within 5 seconds of you unhooking them if the killer is within 8 meters. (BOMBING RUN)
-1,000 BP if an allied survivor is hit within 8 meters and 5 seconds of pointing or opening an occupied locker (TATTLE)
-1,000 BP if player disconnects within 60 seconds of their first chase (COWARD)
-1,000 BP if the killer disconnects within the first 120 seconds of the match (WASTED)
If they walk away from the lobby, the BP are deducted from their account, unless they already have none.
The MMR system looks at the negative points accrued by this score and creates a Toxicity value that is biased in matchmaking. Meaning toxic survivors (Hook bombing, leading killers to teammates, taunting, and Disconnecting early) and toxic killers (Face-camping, tunneling, slugging, disconnecting after a moment making everyone re-que) will suffer longer cue times, and will often get a taste of their own toxic medicine with who they get matched with - both survivor and killer.
Every day, this value is reduced by 1,000 + (100/day of not accruing>1,000 points), but is paused every day it is accrued. So if a survivor has a bad night, Hook bombs their friend, sells out another, and taunts at the exit gate - they can rack up -5,000 points pretty easily. It would take 6 days of not being toxic (or not playing at all) to reset this value to 0.
Many people may have a little toxicity on their accounts. A little taunting, or selling out a bad teammate THAT ONE TIME, but it will regress so long as you don't continue to accrue too many.
This way - people who refuse to stop camping and grieving will quickly outpace their scores. Several toxic sessions back-to-back can riddle them with thousands and thousands of toxicity points. They get to play in the special Toxic hell of MMR that puts high value toxic players with high value toxic players regardless of rank.
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Get to higher ranks.
You will not feel that Killers are always 'stronger' once you actually start playing with a good team, and start being good yourself.
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I like this idea - I really think there should be an accompanying animation, though - and perhaps a designated 'button' that lives in the basement for such an occasion.
I think this would be a nice change. But it's pretty niche.
I'd like to see the devs address their bad perk pandemic before they put healthy additions - such as this one - into the game :)
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@Reshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2888113#Comment_2888113
I think another thing that should be considered is a weaker version of the pallet, an item that you can, with good timing, stun the killer with, but it doesn't create a barrier that they have to kick. Could be flipping down a small table, chair, lamp, trashcan, thin door, or sign; or any item that would break if it lands on the ground or hit the killer.
Not a bad idea - but remember, killers view this as a MASSIVE advantage. The perk that does this - Spirit Fury - requires the killer break 2 other perks before they can even have this work!
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@Letholldus said:
I saw a post about elevators not long ago and it really got me thinking about a bunch of other old ideas I've had or heard people mention over the last couple of years that are not present in the game already in terms of map design. I honestly feel one thing that could really breathe some fresh air into the game in a way that would affect both survivors and killers would be more 'obstacles' on the map for the survivors to use and the killer to overcome or mindgame around. Now bear in mind, that these would replace some pallets, vaults, and loop locations so do not assume I'm suggesting we add all these to maps without first taking out some of these pallets and vaults first to help balance it. Some of these would be especially prominent on indoor maps or maps with buildings. The goal is to maintain balance but with a new twist to things that change the game up.
Garage doors: Garage doors, raised just high enough for a survivor to fit under. They can be crouched under by survivors with a little animation like vaulting a window, or if they are sprinting they can try to dive under it faster. They may be a bit slower than speed vaulting a window even when done quickly but are an alternative means to avoid the killer. However much like breakable walls the killer can approach one and fling it open with an animation, disabling the obstacle for good. There are already a few maps that have static garage doors where such a thing could be added to them to add a unique flavor to those maps
Doors: Just normal old doors. Doors can be opened or closed quietly by survivors when not holding shift/fast action key. Or slammed open and closed when holding the shift key which creates a noise notification. If slammed in a killer's face they will gain a mild stun, less than a pallet would cause. Killers can kick down doors the same as a breakable wall (perhaps even faster with a single fast kick?) if the door is closed when they approach it or after it's slammed on them. Chainsaws, blight rushes, and the such would still smash straight through them of course.
House Windows: Not the same as the already vaultable windows. These are normally windows that must be opened first. A survivor can interact with a window to open or close it quietly or use the fast action to slam it with a noise notification. These would replace vault locations in houses and some buildings perhaps?(Not all of course, and not things like T and L walls or other such loops), and survivors must take notice of them and open them ahead of time if they did not spawn already open. As they cannot slow or medium vault a closed window. They can however speed vault a closed window, breaking it and permanently leaving it as a normal vaulting location. But doing so can cause them to become injured, and if already injured then they will gain the laceration status effect. A killer can vault a closed window, smashing it in the process, though it is a second or two longer than a normal vault.
Pallet skins: The basic idea here is to replace pallets with other junk like shelving perhaps? Though they'd be made very obvious as a pallet type item as they will give the throw prompt, show up with aura reading that shows pallets, and would likely have the signature yellow tape and such on them that means it can be interacted with. It'd just help make maps feel a little more natural or varied with the throwable junk?
Locker skins: The same as pallet skins. Can have alternate locker skins to fit maps better. Seeing a suburban house with a bunch of red metal lockers in each room can take away from the immersion of the setting, and with map reworks like haddonfield happening that make them look way nicer and like a real house. New closet types would help too I think. Some examples would be like, a wooden wardrobe, bedroom/broom closets, etc. The yellow tape/paint could be added to them if needed to make it clear it can be interacted with if it feels like they may be overlooked if changed up.
First off.
I LOVE THIS!
These are some amazingly creative ideas! They're amazing!
Please, keep making more quality submissions like this.!
Garage doors. YES - this needs to be in the game. Having something that survivors can open and killers can close for a quick advantage would be HUGE! The only slight issue might be clipping with certain survivor cosmetics. Sliding on your back may make some backpacks look a little funky.
Doors. This is a great idea. Killers need more to break than pallets. Pallets are boring. I'd rather have doors to break and less pallets to worry about on a map, because at least there would be variety - and perhaps a reason to bring Brutal Strength!
House Windows. I generally like the concept. I think having more open/close tug of wars with the killer would become more frustrating than it's worth, though. Garage door buttons may take time to open (8 seconds) if the devs felt like it, as it is an electrical switch. But windows become much more difficult. The injured aspect especially, while creative, may make the game feel a bit more complex than it needs to be. I'd love to see it in the game, but I'm unsure how realistic that may be with the other ones.
Pallet Skins. Not a bad idea - it gives variety, but it also has a lot of confliction with the areas around it. The benefit to the pallets is that they are so incredibly generic that people turn their brains off when they approach them - and all players, even new ones, understand what they are. If you make the pallet a bookshelf, for instance, takes a lot of work to model and work... but if you put that into RPD or Haddonfield, it's going to look MUCH more out of place than the original more 'general' design did in the first place. It's a challenge, because if each map had NUMEROUS designs to choose from, it might work!
Locker Skins. A better idea! I like having lockers that fit a bit better - maybe having some that look like actual wardrobes or refrigerators. Would take a lot more effort for little payoff - but I think it would be a great quality of life improvement.
~
I love your ideas, I think they're better than mine.
The only thing I could come up with are -
Breakable Vaults. Like Breakable walls with windows in them. Killer can kick them into openings. Survivors can vault them up to 3 times, but on the 3rd time it breaks after a few seconds.
Light Pallets. These stun the killer for 2 seconds instead of 3. But they are destroyed when the killer hits them with anything - and survivors can only vault it twice before it breaks over a few seconds.
Heavy Pallets. These take a lengthy animation to drop, so survivors will have to anticipate a killer and begin to drop it long in advance - making it hard to use in a chase. Hitting a killer will stun them for 5 seconds, and these pallets take much longer for killers to break - while also being non-traversable as a survivor. Throwing one of these is a massive deal to survivors, and can be used to strengthen certain loops or close off certain passages.
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Nah - you just need to know when to lunge and when not to. If you're about to suffer from a lunge, it's your fault for committing.
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@Reshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892521#Comment_2892521
Well, regression would only happen if you're not actively opening it. Mostly, the end game for DBD right now is in a terrible state. Once the gates are powered the killer's basically powerless. The EGC timer's extremely generous, survivors know precisely how long they have, gates don't have to be committed to being open, and gates don't close if survivors take too long.
True enough.
I don't really find EGC to be an extension of the rest of the game, but a punctuation. While Blood Warden exists - I firmly believe that the killer's time is not EGC, but that EGC is a gentle 'recommendation' for survivors to hurry on out.
In truth, once the exit gates are open - survivors should cut their losses and leave. Hooked survivor or not.
Forcing the exit gates to open faster may keep survivors from playing around triggering the EGC, but it will not - by virtue - make the benefits of EGC plain, as there will be a lot less last-ditch efforts from the survivors and a lot more leaving ASAP.
However, I understand where you're coming from. The woeful truth is that the EGC is not anti-survivor, it's simply intended as a period to punctuate the final sentence of the event's last paragraph.
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110%
It would let killers synergize and make this perk a lot more attractive over its competitors - like Sprint Burst and Balanced Landing.
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THIS. PLEASE.
Being able to narrow your screen by typing into a search bar instead of navigating through buttons would be sweet.
The only downside is it's a dead feature on arrival - as only PC players would see any use from it.
The hundreds of thousands of players on console wouldn't be able to use it - by the time they even pull up their keypad they might as well have pressed a few buttons to browse for it.
A wonderful idea nonetheless.
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Sorry, man. You fell for one of the classic blunders!
Yes - the creeper would be an AMAZING killer in the game - but the man who holds the cards is... well.. an actual creeper.
Until someone else handles the IP, Behavior won't be caught dead making a financial investment in him.
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They really did him an injustice - mostly because the devs worked WAY too hard in the other direction.
Quicscoping isn't the problem, it's accuracy. Let players quickscope and keep that GOOD feeling - but make it like a huntress Hatchet, but with bloom. The longer it's aimed, the greater its range and accuracy.
Other than this, just get rid of the Mend status. He doesn't need it.
It would be better if he had a magazine of 5 shots that he reloaded at a locker with a lengthy animation.
5-6 seconds at a locker for 5 rounds in the mag with snapshot sights back? I'd pay to play that guy.
Nobody cares about the terror radius - if they can hear you or not isn't the issue - it's being able to use him within that radius that should be looked at.
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No dice.
You cannot try and change perks to circumvent buffs. It just can't happen.
Hemorrhage has been the laughing stock of status effects, but now that it actually does something - you cannot try and change perks so that they are immune to its effects. Especially since it's a relatively uncommon effect in game.
Besides, the perk has been garbage since its release - because it simply is not practical in all reality. If you want there to be a buff, you should change the way the perk works to make it better.
Here's an example that would work so long as they nerfed Dead Hard with the Broken status:
~
While healing another survivor, heal yourself at a rate of 50%.
For each health allied health state healed, gain a token up to 4/3/2.
When there are no healthy survivors left in the trial, and you are at max tokens, they are consumed and you are restored to full health over 16 seconds.
(Damage taken during this time cancels the effect. If Dying, Restored to Injured in 8 seconds and restored to Healthy in another 8)
~
For the love of God in heaven, remove the 'no medkit' requirement, that is so lame.
The biggest problem with Solidarity is its lack of flexibility in approach. It is very specific on when it works and how it works, and sports very limited returns within those circumstances. It will save the team 16 seconds after you spend 32. A very poor tradeoff. This, however, keeps the old bonus intact, while also incentivizing players to continue and heal allies at every opportunity that they can - prioritizing allies over yourself in these situations. After fully healing 2 other survivors, you gain a free health state once the tables have turned against you. However, if you are the survivor that last survivor injured, you must play your cards right or the killer will stop this perk before its main benefit triggers. This would make it not only attractive on survivors that like to heal, but a beneficial fount to use as a comeback tool that requires several seconds of side objectives to utilize effectively. The presence of this perk also makes the Broken status a lot more prominent in the meta, which makes the game more interesting as counterplay is brought to the table to combat passive healing - which, again, takes a significant time investment to preform correctly. Solidarity is supposed to grant a free health state after a survivor spends upwards of 32 seconds preforming healing actions, but if the perk does not in some way guarantee this - it is a flop.
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@Reshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892329#Comment_2892329
My suggestion was partially tongue and cheek.
Regarding gate regression, gates should regress at 1c/1s or 1c/2s. 99ing gates shouldn't be something you can do with no effort or cost on your part, if you wanna maintain the gate's progress you have to keep it from decaying. Also could be worth making gates automatically shut themselves again after 30 seconds, so you have to be more decisive about leaving or not. Home Sweet Home does this for example, it takes a couple of seconds to open the exit, and the exit seals itself after time.
I knew as much. I wasn't being sarcastic - I love the sense of humor!
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on those numbers. I really think that having a hard lock on 95% progress and 1c/8s would be plenty to nip this tactic in the bud. It would also make for an easy Remember Me buff if they added a 200% bonus regression to the gates, causing it to passively regress by 1c/2s or so on top of making gates longer to open.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892341#Comment_2892341
Who knoiws, if this gets enough attention by the devs, I will defo try to push it and write it to the devs if they do another Q/A.
I'd hope so!
But seeing as the game's been out for about 6 years and we're only now getting daily bonuses - I think the devs have a much slower digestion than many give them credit for.
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@SS007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892425#Comment_2892425
I think even using a Mori reduces your chances of getting a pip considerably too right?
It does, because you do not get the score for hooking actions - or bonus events such as 'late hook' or anything of the sort. I believe that, because they must be dead on hook, it's a lot less of a deal than it was before the change.
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I think it wouldn't be so bad if, after 2 minutes, survivors had a 'give up' option. That wouldn't be so bad.
Just make it need 5 seconds of holding the active ability button to power up.
After powered up, scream - revealing your location to the killer - and play an unstoppable 3 second animation before dying.
This counts as a Mori for the killer, not a bleed-out. (Because survivors would then use this feature to spite the killer of points, not to simply escape the match)
This would give the rest of the players time to react to the option being taken, while also not letting it be used instantly after being downed to deny the killer a final hook or any such cheese.
@Icaurs said:
So.. there is an issue of killer slugging survivors for up to 4 minutes. The issue isn't the bleed out itself but rather killers using this very toxic style of gameplay. So instead of punishing or at least discouraging this style you simply give survivors the option to give the killer an auto win so they don't have to be bored and miserable, further rewarding killers.
This is such a perfect behaviour band-aid fix.
Instead of... you know punishing killers for doing this. Like they lose 5% of the total points per every 25% of each individual survivors bleed out timer. So if 4 survivors bleed out they would lose 80% of their total points. This would also encourage killers to hook survivors more often which is the objective of the killer.
I think this is not a bad idea at all.
There should be negative scoring events for 'Toxic' styles.
If a survivor bleeds out, the killer faces a BP penalty and has something around 20% of their entire post-match score deducted.
Great! Not a bad idea!
Only two things I'd add:
- Make it so that there's a special hidden 'toxic' score that effects your MMR, and make the MMR system bias the matchmaking based on this score. Meaning the more toxic things you do in the game - the longer your cue times are and the more likely you are to be matched with other toxic players.
- Sometimes survivors are spiteful and will hide to bleed out rather than being hooked. This should be considered when taking into account the various natures that such situations can unfold.
@JaviiMii said:
How about if all 4 are slugged for more than x time (/a cumulative slug-timer) one survivor (based on rng) gets automatically picked up by the entity - with soul guard for them & potentially everyone they pick up while injured - regardless of how much they have recovered. Slugging is a viable strategy to some extent and sometimes it would even be plain stupid to deliberately avoid a slug. But having all four slugged and going "kek-troll-face" and proceeding to wait for the bleed out while looking at them is way up there on the list of styles of gameplay that no one wants. Anyone playing remotely normal wouldn't be affected by this at all (prolonged slugging of several people is a condition) while those going kek-troll-face would at least run the risk of the survivors making some kind of come-back.
I like this idea a lot!
It needs to be tweaked. But something along the lines of - When all non-hooked survivors have been in the Dying state for 24 seconds, the Entity will restore one to full health. For every additional 24 seconds where a survivor has not been hooked, the survivor with the lowest bleed-out timer will be restored to full health.
This can be countered if the killer hooks even ONE survivor - but at the very least, it would make griefing killers choose to hook at least one person.
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Hilarious!
I'd love to see a joke perk that did this for some reason.
However, there is a certain level of consistency that needs to be kept - especially in terms of POV aspects such as FOV.
This perk could literally make players sick and cause them to have a quantifiably horrible experience if they are prone to motion sickness.
I'd love to see a few tests, though, that would make for some great community content.
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It would be a bit too strong.
On one hand, it would be nice to make it a reliable place to find clemency.
On the other hand, Scourge Hooks would just become basement camp perks.
The tradeoff simply isn't worth it.
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It is torture. But to be honest - it is not at all about playing 'the perfect game' in behavior's eyes, it's about making Tier 1 killer hardest of all to accomplish.
Getting Tier 1 should be incredibly hard - so it's not that big of a deal to be a challenge.
However, the scoring events themselves and the way it looks at how 'well' you preformed NEEDS to be changed.
As it stands, it still punishes you for using exposure perks and playing the game too quickly.
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100% Agree.
Even if I have a measly 1.4k
His Chainsaw has a base speed of 9.2m/s (230%) But this could easily be buffed to 10m/s (250%) and it wouldn't be much of an issue for either side, just a nice speed buff that would make him a bit less painful to play in the long run.
They could also increase his lethality by giving him a little directional lunge that he can preform after sprinting a certain distance - which would be similar to lunging out of a Blight dash. This would make Sprinting a lot more deadly in those instances where you're only a little bit off after a long dash.
Yeah, the cooldown is egregious. Stuns are so punishing as well. Lowering it to 2 seconds would be superb for everyone involved. 2.5 seconds at the very least.
I totally agree. Although - you could also make it so that there's a scoring event for ending a chainsaw dash very close to a survivor - which increases depending on sprint range. If you use it to close the distance and end it right next to a survivor, it should say 'Hey, you used your power to engage with the survivors! Here's a few hundred BP!' - and maybe increase the reward, so if you thread a path into the Shack and chase everyone away from the generator inside - you get a little reward for it, instead of feeling like you failed.
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I think generally survivors like to see other survivors doing things. There's a lot of negative stigma against 'baby killers' that are very scared of the killer and try to hide at times that they otherwise wouldn't if they knew better.
Stealth is a legitimate style of play, but due to this stigma, other survivors can often become offended by another's lack of action.
I think the Mod response is perfect:
@Mandy said:
I think players in general never like it when others play a playstyle different to their own. So I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Sorry about your accident, I hope everyone is ok and that the car damage can be easily rectified.
If you like being sneaky. Be the sneakiest there ever was.
Don't worry about what other people think. The real objective of the game is to have fun.
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I really, really, REALLY like this idea.
Having a big open world to practice and vibe with other players with sounds like heaven.
For survivors, you can place them in one big map with resources and maybe a custom 'phantom' that acts like a killer without ever harming another player. Just teaches them how to loop.
Killers can have a giant realm with ever-respawning hooks and a bunch of dumb bot survivors. Everyone killing together and having a good time.
I 999% support this idea.
Knowing the devs, though, this would be a massive undertaking. I doubt we'd see anything for quite awhile.
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If your survivor team is getting 3 people down on the ground and nobody is getting picked up by the 4th during that time - you done goofed.
If a survivor's on the ground - 3 are up - and the killer leaves them to chase someone else... why aren't people going for the save?
If there are 4 people on the ground, where are the Unbreakable takers and Soul Guards?
We're Gonna Live Forever gives double healing speed - group healing is the current meta. Nobody has enough healing to pick someone up?
Is your entire team piled on top of one another and the killer is downing them 1 by 1? That's your fault.
If the entire team is spread out across the map, and nobody is going for rescues or heals on isolated survivors - that's your fault.
When more than 1 person is down, you should be going into damage control - either picking up one of those downed teammates or waiting in a good hiding spot to swing in for a BT unhook. If you see the killer leaving someone, always ALWAYS go to help them - even if it's far away.
You're complaining about being in a bad place when there are 3 downs and 1 is in chase - you should ask yourself how you got into that situation and how you could play around it because, in reality, you had several opportunities to prevent this from escalating.
If you're so sick of killers leaving you on the ground. Play like it matters to you and it will go away.
(Unless it's a Nurse. That's just how Nurse is played)
@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2884155#Comment_2884155
No, they do not. You are approving of one of the most toxic things a killer can do to a survivor in this game. The mere fact you say if the killer has already killed the other 2 survivors they've already won shows you're either being disingenuous or you're just bias. You should know it is not impossible for the last survivor to win if 2 are dead and 1 is slugged. I have seen so many 4th survivors finish the last gen, get the 3rd survivor up and both escape. If a killer has to play that toxic to get 4k then they didn't win anything. All they did was make the game miserable for others so they could think they got some kind of victory when really all they did was leave a survivor on the ground for several minutes at a CHANCE they would find the last one. For them to get an entire bleed out bar's time to search the map for the 4th survivor is unfair. Slugging ruins this game. Its not fun. Its not fair and it is VERY toxic.
@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2884158#Comment_2884158
If 2 survivors are already dead there is no wanting 4 escapes to happen. Its killers being extremely toxic and making someone miserable so they can have a chance at 4k. No it is not the hatch mechanic doing this. Killers always have the advantage in finding the hatch. They move faster and can go across the map a lot quicker than the survivors.
You are not owed an escape.
You are not owed an easy time.
You are not owed mercy.
You are playing against someone who's title is 'Killer' - if you give them means to kill you, they will take it. As they should.
If your team is letting the killer get away with slugging, the killer is expected to capitalize on your bad performance.
The killer is not going to allow you to run away with the game just because you personally think it should be such a way. There are numerous means to punish a killer for slugging - or avoiding such a situation altogether.
(Also, the last survivor should NEVER finish the last generator before picking someone up. When numerous people are down, generators are no longer the priority - they should have left the gen when the 2nd person was down. Popping the final gen allows the killer to use dangerous perks like Bitter Murmur and NOED to punctuate the Trial. In reality, they should have been dutiful earlier instead of mounting additional danger to the saves before going to them)
@Hermit said:
Recover to full? No, but what I’d like to see implemented is the option to suicide once your bleed out bar is half empty.
I kind of like this idea. It would allow many players to 'DC' from a bad match or grant the hatch without being penalized for it. Just having a 'Give Up' button that triggers a scream from the survivor and plays a 3 second animation would make this balanced. The killer and other survivors would understand what's happening and have time to act accordingly.
@Xord said:
A bleeding out kill is already not considered a kill in the devout category.
It should just give a significant penalty in Blood Points as well, like 5k.
It would encourage the killers to take the 3k and play for the hatch.
That being said, while I consider this absuing game mechanics to prevent the hatch from opening, putting exit gates at 99 pourcent is also a game mechanic abuse from the survivors.
Totally agreed.
There should be a 'Toxic' point base that stores negative values and grants 'average toxicity' scores to killers.
Camp the hook? Toxic. Survivor bleeds out? Toxic. Close hatch within 10 seconds of dropping a survivor? Toxic. Tunnel a survivor that was just unhooked? Toxic. Lots of complaints about bad mouthing in lobby? Toxic.
Happening once or twice won't do anything serious - so hitting a survivor or letting someone bleed out every once in awhile isn't going to make you play with degenerates, but when people always slug, always camp, always let survivors bleed out, always tunnel - it places them in a special matchmaking tier with long cue times and other toxic people.
Let all the toxic people hash it out, let the rest of us live in peace.
@Plsfix369 said:
Killers shouldn't be able to slug survivors for 4 minutes. there should be a way to prevent "toxic slugging" not just a penalty. It's an abusable mechanic specially with hackers.
Not only is it not an abusable mechanic, but it is also one with many counters.
Unless it's a Nurse, you will always have ample time to counteract such a style of play.
In addition. If the game is boring because you have to sit there for so long - make a sandwich, go to the restroom, tab out to watch a video, talk to your family for a few.
If the worst thing in the game is that you have to idle for a bit because you couldn't counter something that hasn't really ever been a legitimate problem with the game... then that's a you thing, not a game thing.
@Zarathos said:
Honestly this is a symptom of a bad core game design problem. The comeback mechanics for both sides are awful/non existent. As a survivor you are so heavily screwed at the loss of a single teammate. 90% of killers are effectively doomed if they lose three gens early. There's no equaliser or comeback mechanic to work towards.
If there are points of no returm for a prolonged period of time. Game mechanics in alternative mode could include earnable in game mori's increased healing, faster repair speed per dead survivor. Even at two survivours left the game shpuld have some kind of comeback mechanic. Same rules apply for killers of course.
So like, a miniature in born 'Fire Up' for both sides?
That's... an interesting idea.
I wouldn't mind that!
@pseudechis said:
"I should be able to get up for free if the killer decides to try for maximum objective"
How about if you can't be knocked down at all?
Or maybe the killer could just have a wiffle bat and it takes 10 hits to knock you down?
I know all survivors are invisible until the 5th gen is done
all equally ridiculous suggestions.
Nono. Not true at all.
The 'wiffle bat' idea is a good one.
@Reshy said:
I have a better idea, make the bleedout timer 120 seconds, and each second on the ground equals one second on the hook for the purposes of hook states. That way players only spend half the time slugged, and picking up from off the ground is important.
I'd love for this to be an idea - but there's one problem with this.
It would make downing a survivor more attractive than not.
Hooking a survivor can take 10+ seconds and make the killer more vulnerable than ever.
It takes survivors 16 seconds to full heal a downed survivor, but only 2 seconds to unhook.
If the bleed-out timer was halved and a minute on the ground was a total hook state, slugging would be the new meta over night. As a killer, why would I defend a hook? I just need to hold down the area and treat the dying survivor as a hooked one where they fall. No more pallet saves or flashy stuns.
By having the bleed-out timer take so long and contribute nothing to the objective, Killers know that hooking is the more attractive solution over all. 4 minutes to perhaps be picked up last second and have no hook progress? That can crush a killer. Wait for 2 Minutes, they're up - but dead on hook? Easy game.
I appreciate your creativity and your heart, but I feel like this would have the inverse effect in practice.
@fulltonon said:
Well, maybe last survivor should die immediately rather than opening hatches.
this way, they have to be more team player, it will reduce selfish hiders and help making game better place.
I'm 90% agreeing with you. But it would have two problems.
A - all killers would do this, then. It would be far more satisfying to have all survivors killed by the Entity if done correctly than to have all these hooks. It would be a 'high risk high reward' option for killers, and you'd see a lot more slugging.
B - Perks like Flip Flop and Power Struggle allow survivors to make incredible comebacks in these situations. By killing survivors in these instances, you are potentially robbing them of incredible comebacks that they may have engineered with their perk choices.
@DriplordDrew said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2886506#Comment_2886506
Lol how many times have you played survivor tried to heal the slug person for killer to be patrolling the area making trying to heal impossible cause either they will get downed or they will get the other person just downed. Then they get chased and downed. Not all are selfish when hiding it is some times the only way 1 survivor may live lol.
If the killer is in the area, what are you doing going for a risky save anyhow?
If there's 1 guy on the ground, you should be in another zip code - unless you're there for a save.
if you're there for a save, continue to wait until the killer is gone or your buddy is at his max recovery.
If you're in a different zip code, work on a gen - either the killer will leave your friend to chase someone - or they will hook your buddy. Win win.
If you're not near the killer, and the killer leaves the first downed person to chase someone else - go to your downed friend and revive them before the situation gets out of hand.
It isn't rocket science. Just be in a different zip code, or have a logical plan while the killer is nearby.
If you go for a super risky 'heal-in-face' save and get downed for the trouble, you forfeit your right to complain about slugging. You can't play on the bridge railing and complain about the fall.
@Advorsus said:
This post very much sounds like someone who plays only one side and they're very new to this side. But I like to compromise. Sure you can have your pickup....
But exit Gates now regress at 10%/s, and if survivors are within the exit gate area for longer than 15 seconds after they're powered they instantly die.
No more 99ing exit Gates or waiting at the exit for the entire EGC to teabag. There, balanced it out for you.
Comedy gold!
Although I wouldn't mind a 1c/8s regression on exit gates. That would be a healthy addition IMO.
At this rate, leaving the exit gate for 30 seconds would regress the exit gate progress by 10%.
They should probably also have a mechanic that snaps progress back to 95% if progress is halted past 95% - making the final 1 second of opening paramount. It would just mean everyone has to complete the opening animation all the way to actually open the gate.
Leaving the exit for 30 seconds and coming back would require 3 seconds to open - 2.25 with Wake Up.
That being said - the instakill option to stop T-bagging is hilarious and should be jokingly leaked as a feature next April 1st!
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She's mostly fine as is.
The only potential buff they should look at is her slowdown.
If they increase the time it takes to cleanse from a pool of devotion 1-2 seconds longer (From 8 seconds to 10 seconds or so)
They likely will not do this, because she's pretty good where she is - and the rework hasn't done much to slow her down. Pros still swear by her. In actuality - she's stronger now than ever, because Circle Of Healing is stomping the meta, and she directly counters it.
Her power is arguably the strongest in the game other than the Nurse's. The only issue is that survivors are keen not to give it to you in many cases - making a 10 second cleanse time less as useful and more of a deterrent than anything. The chanting is actually in the game for the exact reason you described. The power is STUPIDLY strong - so by having it give a light audio cue, it gives survivors a slight edge to unwary users. But - let's be clear - if you're holding one of the strongest abilities in the game and a little whisper ruins the game for you, the whispers ain't the problem in the first place.
Besides, the devs love their 4s and prefer numbers that easily are divisible by 4s, so they probably wont do 10 seconds anyhow.
That being said, she's plenty strong where she is.
I do appreciate the creativity in your approach that pools of devotion should be cumulative and absolute. It's an admirable suggestion, however the indiscriminate nature of her power means that any specificity either nerfs the power (Which isn't why we are here) or becomes so broad that it makes her unstoppable and completely imbalanced, which would make cleansing such a problem that baby survivors would be the only ones who would fall for it - making it redundant and unfun. Good suggestion! But, sadly, impractical.
Right now, the Plague is in a win-win scenario with the use of her power. Survivors are broken, and they cannot heal - and spread this corruption. This means that there isn't much concern about lengthy chases or protection hits. So survivors that do not hand you one of the most deadly powers in the game will suffer greatly from the limitations of being injured.
Making her fuel her own power, though, gets rid of this option - it makes her far too oppressive as a killer. She'd be able to tactically 99 her ability (similar to Meyers) and reap the benefits of the power of the sun in the palm of her hands... all while continuing to keep survivors in an oppressed and sensitive state.
Placing the most powerful ability in the hands of the survivors is the way to balance this eloquently.
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@CrowVortex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2891701#Comment_2891701
She is not C tier , actually ranks very high in a lot of people's tier lists.
I was unclear, my apologies.
She's A tier for chases and power. Totally. You are not wrong. You are totally correct.
Professionals have praised her for her strengths, and they are right to do so.
She's C list in the sense that she does not seem to be attractive. Not only did she not sell very well, but there's a reason it is uncommon to play against her.
While a lot of people say 'Yes she's very strong!' you don't see a lot of those same people playing a lot of her afterwards. She is simply not that compelling.
On the 'fun to play' scale, she's probably a C by the looks of it. I don't even like to get challenges for her - not because they're hard, I'd just rather be playing a different killer, and it looks like a lot of people feel the same way.
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I agree, this should be fixed!
Hopefully, this was a simple mistake - not a deliberate marketing choice, as western audiences are far more familiar with some labels over others.
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She's very unfun because players figured out how to counter her in a week or so.
By the way, the counter is 'Hold W'.
Go into a gym or a loop - begin the loop until you see her place down crows.
Lose sight of the killer
Run to the next loop.
Rinse repeat.
She's strong, but this isn't FUN.
In all reality, very few killers are FUN in this meta. They really need to take another look at where the game is and where they want it to be if they want C list killers like Artist to have any screen time.
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Too much cloak and daggers.
Best we get from the devs are some ambiguous digits and a chart that has a vague connection to performance. As if they had 5,000 numbers to choose from and they just gave us one.
They should come out with a comprehensive digest.
Almost like WE are in the board meeting, watching the statisticians explain to the executives the discoveries made in the test with various metrics, loads of numbers, and tons of compounded truths.
Even if the picture painted is larger than life, at least the community would understand what's going on and be able to draw their own conclusions.
If you hide behind a streamlined figure - you run the risk of either looking ignorant or arrogant, and that's never a good feeling for a community.
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I think it means their system is broken and they don't want us to know that they have absolutely NO idea what they're doing.
If the matchmaking system was so intelligent and profound - they'd have no trouble letting us know what it is.
@MonsterInMyMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2891416#Comment_2891416
You can't fix whats wrong with MMR because it would require a complete game overhaul and Behavior doesn't have the time to invest in such a process that would take them 20+ years, they didn't wanna even invest in fixing the grind for 10 years, what makes you think they're willing to do so in Dead by Daylight. You wanna fix MMR shut it off, admit Dead by Daylight is casual, and move on to balancing the game.
The game is too poorly designed for this to work.
In reality, All you'd have to do is make a system that recognizes past performance and takes recent performance into account.
Call Of Duty did this better a decade ago with a SPM system - which could be implemented with Bloodpoints virtually over night - and would have the hidden benefit of pushing Disconnecting players, campers, and hackers into the garbage bin over night.
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@musstang62 said:
I don't think it's completely braindead, but the amount of benefit you get for how little skill it takes... it's absolutely absurd. That goes double when it's used solely for distance. It just becomes an "I WIN" button
@EnderloganYT said:
"Press E to extend chase by 30+ seconds" is what it is. There's a reason Dead Hard for distance is popular. Getting to another pallet can be the difference between a 5 gen chase and a 0 gen one. In hindsight, I maybe should've said little skill rather than none, cause actually dodging an attack with it does require SOME sense of timing or prediction, but when it comes to distance it could not be more braindead without literally being passive. It really feels like a button that just says "You lose, I win" in those situations.
It's an absolute shame, because you are both SO right.
Pressing 'E' just to get to a pallet faster takes virtually no judgement - just lets you safely extend the chase.
It wouldn't be so bad if there was an actual downside to using it, something to balance the perk other than the pathetic Exhaustion.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2890610#Comment_2890610
All I saw was "wah wah can't get 50 wins in a row anymore, game is SOUL CRUSHING" I only won 16 games in a row, and got a 2k the one I "lost".
Dude can cry me a river lmao
He's lost streaks hundreds of times before - HUNDREDS.
It isn't not about losing his streak, it's about the sense of helplessness.
He lost streak as Clown plenty of times, but to this day he still boasts of the amazing anti-loop and high-skill-ceiling utility of the killer.
He thinks that the Shape is the weakest killer in the game, and he openly states that he did not have such a miserable experience when he lost several streak attempts on Meyers.
You're looking at a guy who has a 100+ win streak on Plague who's aim is to completely master the game as killer.
Now you're seeing that same guy unable to attain 12 consecutive matches.
And his conclusions are not balance changes, nor are they mechanical in nature - or even skill based.
He is simply saying that the gameplay direction Behavior has chosen for Saduko (and killers in general) leaves him feeling as though no matter how well he plays, he is always at a disadvantage.
This is a man who has, for the longest time, did what he could to stave off the 'survivor sided' fans in his fanbase. He's been very calm and optimistic at every turn. Seeing him voice such a concern is very unsettling, as it's very out of character for him to do.
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@musstang62 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2889629#Comment_2889629
It really just drives the point home even more coming from him. Not a great sign when the dude that's kept his sanity through borderline impossible no hit runs on soulsbourne games, he goes and plays Sadako and is eventually like "######### this, this killer is too frustrating to play"
The soulsbourne games were extremely punishing but ultimately with a degree of fairness to them. Playing killer anymore just feels straight up punishing
Seriously.
People who hit their head against games like Elden Ring until they can play it flawlessly, FLAWLESSLY, are saying that playing Dead By Daylight is too stressful and a lost cause.
Thank you for bringing that up! I almost forgot to mention his Souls content.
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It should be reworked to grant flat healing speed nerf/buffs - not random skill checks.
The major problem this perk faces is that it can actually get someone killed early on - and relies heavily on random chance to prove viable later. It's possible you can heal multiple health states without netting a positive skill check.
~
The Greatest ability at your disposal is your ability to expand your knowledge.
-60% Healing speed.
While healing another survivor, succeeding at skill checks grants a token up to 8.
For each token, increase healing speed by 15/20/25%
At max tokens, skill checks grant 10% bonus progress.
"There's no limit to what you can achieve, as long as you back with hard work." — Adam Francis
~
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2890393#Comment_2890393
Ok, that just sounds like you aren't enjoying the game as much, that sucks.
Just not the Nurse.
I find her to be poorly designed. But this is only my opinion.
Regardless of how I feel and what experiences I may have, I am glad that you can find joy where I, sadly, cannot.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2890370#Comment_2890370
'The Nurse has the greatest POTENTIAL to down survivors if her power is used flawlessly.'
I mean...That's how all Killer powers should work? They should require Killer skill over Survivor mistakes, because if a Killer power set requires Survivors to make mistakes instead; That Killer literally cannot win against skilled players who make little to no mistakes.
Yes.
. . .
This was a declarative statement. I'm glad you agree!
@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2890370#Comment_2890370
I agree with all of that except where you are taking survivor agency out of the equation. What you are in effect stating is that every time I got away from a nurse blink, it's completely because they messed up, and I just don't buy that for a second. I could be reading that wrong, I've had a very long day
You are misunderstanding my friend. I'm sorry about your long day
This is not a discussion on how easy or viable her ability is.
A survivor can outsmart a nurse. A survivor can juke, spin, and duck a nurse - giving them the slip. Yes.
My point is not her perfection, it is not how strong she is, it is of how BORING she is within the context of her power's eloquence.
If I was the nurse playing against you, and you gave me the slip - I feel bad.
If I was the nurse playing against you, and I hit you - I feel bored.
If you were the nurse playing against me, and I gave you the slip - I feel bad.
If you were the nurse playing against me, and you hit me - I feel bored.
That is my point.
Not that getting hits is easy, not that survivors cannot outplay a Nurse, nor that there isn't an exchange between the killer and the survivor. Simply that she is unsatisfying.
That the simplicity of her ability and the perfection of its design makes her, fundamentally, completely boring when used correctly - and completely frustrating when used incorrectly.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2889587#Comment_2889587
As reliably as I can aim, which after playing a lot more 1st person shooters on console, is pretty reliable... Certainly much better than the times I've tried to play nurse and consistently over or under blinked, letting the survivor get away scot free.
Midwitch has a large open field now? Are we talking the same Midwitch? The one that's literally just hallways, small rooms full of broken furniture and a small courtyard full of shrubs and garden walls?
Yes. Nurse has a very unique power that lets her handle loops more efficiently and even go through walls... I've never denied that. That doesn't make your terrible examples any less terrible. Nurse is strong, but even with practiced nurse mains, she's not unbeatable, we've literally thousands of hours worth of footage showing that. Her steep learning curve, added to the mind game that is required to use her power effectively, have kept her on the bottom of the kill rankings for a reason (even with the many, many survivors who have stated they DC/suicide on hook immediately against her, which would raise that percentage).
Perhaps if you spent some time playing as nurse, you would better understand the built in limitations of her power, and just how easy it is for survivors to get her to slip, even with aura reading perks. If you're just running away in a straight line and dropping pallets like she's trapper, then yeah, you're going to have a bad time. However if you pay attention to your surroundings, work the jukes and double back on yourself at the right time (comes with practice) she becomes the most fun killer to face. (Seriously one of my favorite things in this game is the rush you get after making a nurse blink past you)
I got two people trying to argue with me - i apologize for saying that you accused me of straw-manning, it was PlaysByShady that did this, not you. An honest mistake.
I think we got off on the wrong foot and are having two different discussions about different things. Miscommunication.
II think we can all agree that - regardless of hypothetical, paper, or practice - The Nurse has the greatest POTENTIAL to down survivors if her power is used flawlessly.
This is the point I'm going towards, and it's the crux of what I was saying in correlation to satisfactory play.
There is no killer in the game, as of yet, who can reliably begin and punctuate 4 chases - 8 hits - on survivors in different locations within the course of 80 seconds.
And accomplishing these feats as the Nurse is a simple point and click. Binary. Get the hit or not.
Killers such as Blight, Demogorgon, Huntress, Cannibal, Hag, these killers CAN accomplish this. But in these circumstances, they are using their powers, there's anticipation and skill, and - moreover- there's time between abilities.
Nurse is, by far, the killer with the greatest mobility and pressure against survivors. I think we can all agree on that. She is capable of extremely lethal blinks and circumvents many aspects of gameplay that survivors otherwise could use to their advantage. This is not a debate, it's just the truth of her power.
I am not saying that she is outright more viable than other killers. I am not saying that other killers cannot get downs in such circumstances, nor am I saying that she is easy - or impossible to play against.
I am, however, saying that she is very strong - and the feast or famine nature of her playstyle mixed with the binary nature of her ability makes it less than an accomplishment to use than other killers in contrast.
Getting 5 back-to-back Huntress Hatchets takes skill and is a grand feat. Landing that long distance hatchet to predict a dead-hard is euphoric.
Perfectly timing a doctor blast to pacify a survivor to prevent them from dropping a pallet and securing a short chase is incredibly satisfying.
Using the Cannibal's chainsaw to catch up to a sprint-burst, and hitting them with the very tip of the final swing as they approach a vault - that is satisfying.
Getting a flick with the Oni's demon charge on an unsuspecting survivor, satisfying as hell.
Bouncing around and using glides and flicks to outwit a survivor as Blight is satisfying.
Tricking a survivor into a trap as the Trapper is satisfying.
Timing your chainsaw turn perfectly to instantly down a survivor in a tight loop as Hillbilly is incredibly rewarding.
Outwitting an opponent with Night Shroud as Ghostface is satisfying
Deducing a survivor's location from the environment and sounds to exit your phase with a deadly lunge as the Spirit is satisfying.
Pointing at the survivor and blinking on top of them. Eh.
Some people say FPS games are boring because it's 'just clicking on heads' . Nurse is similar in that way.
Sure, it may require skill to do reliably, there is a bit of anticipation.
But if you land on top of a survivor that doesn't have dead hard, you get the hit/grab. It's just that simple.
Nemesis requires timing and positioning, Blight needs to be deliberate with rushes, but blinking with the nurse is... cheap.
It always feels like I didn't earn it. I didn't need to predict the arc and velocity of a hatchet, i didn't skewer and reel a survivor, i didn't time my Hillbilly dash or cleverly cut off survivors with a Cenobite chain. I just... clicked myself over to them. Sometimes I don't do it right. But that's it.
it's almost as if the Huntress had hatchets with no parabolic arc or change in velocity - always straight all the time, and the hatchets went through walls. The time held determines the distance traveled. The skill becomes binary. Cover doesn't matter, location doesn't really matter. All that matters is if the Ghost Huntress misses or not. It's completely binary. If she is aware of your location, she can place a ghost hatchet where you are and injure you from a considerable distance away. In this silly example, hopefully you can understand when I mean there is a lack of satisfaction from a 'cheap' aspect. if Huntress hatchets worked this way - going through walls, floors, roofs, and all terrain - being perfectly accurate to the pointed location. Huntress would have an ability that was binary. it would be skill based, because you'd have to slightly lead targets.; But so long as you know where people are, you can hit them. The power - in this case - is a perfect power, but it is up to the user to miss and mess up. Huntress would be a LOT less satisfying to play like this, because in this case there is no legitimate skill to knowing her arcs and charge times - hitboxes - and having precision to thread obstacles with her power. You just point towards an enemy and let it go. It hits - or it misses. Binary.
Highly potent, extremely dangerous, circumvents the conventional style of play, and is nearly inescapable if executed in all of is beautiful simplicity.
But it's a human power. And humans are flawed, humans make mistakes, humans misjudge things.
She is not held back from her ability, she is held back from her humanity - and the ability to make critical mistakes.
This is the point I'm making.
NOT that she's unstoppable. NOT that she's broken. NOT that she can get hits in the open when other killers cannot. NOT that I hate her oooh I hate her or anything like that.
Her power is SIMPLE and it is almost PERFECT. It basically cannot, by its own merit, fail.
It is a binary power. You either used it right, or you didn't use it right.
If you used it right, they are dead. If you didn't use it right, enjoy the fatigue.
Her ability isn't a complex mechanic or countered effect. It doesn't require anticipation or setup, it cannot be stopped by conventional means. It is a button.
It brings me no pleasure knowing that pressing a button correctly alone wins me the game. That there are no mind-games and only 'the button' - nothing else matters - and this is boring. And Ii believe there are many others on both sides who feel the same way.
We can disagree on many things. But Ii hope we do not have to disagree on the viability of the Nurse or the simplicity of her ability.
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That would take a single iota of professionalism, foresight, and coordination from a dev team with questionable leadership.