Give Dead Hard An Unhook Requirement
Obligatory Dead Hard discourse trademark.
I think a big reason people don't like some of the infamous perks like NOED, Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, etc, but not perks like Devour Hope or Pop Goes, is because of one thing:
Devour and Pop both feel earned; the Killer earns it by getting hooks and progressing the match. Survivors know this. If Pop had no cooldown and happened, say, every time the killer got stunned, that'd be unfair, because the Killer is being rewarded way too much for playing poorly.
Dead Hard is the same way. It feels unearned and rewards the survivor for getting hit. Its become so commonplace that you have to assume every survivor has Dead Hard because the benefit it gives requires almost nothing from the survivor besides existing.
I propose, then, that Dead Hard be tied toward altruism:
- Whenever you rescue a survivor from the hook, Dead Hard activates.
- While active, you can use the active ability button to lurch forward and become immune to damage while you're injured.
This change is simple, but it already does two things:
A) Prevents Dead Hard from being a factor in the early game, which helps the killer in the early game.
B) Puts a soft cap on Dead Hards in a match. No longer do you have to concern yourself every time a survivor is injured; you can calculate and predict who has a dead hard ready based on who rescued who, and who has used it yet or not.
C) Reduces the frequency of its use, since some survivors may not be willing or able to play so altruistically throughout the match to get its full use out of it.
I think this simple change can completely shift how many Dead Hards we see without completely obliterating the perk into obscurity, giving it a place with altruistic builds. Plus it fits David King's style of play anyway, which is high risk high reward. Dead Hard currently carries no risk and has constant reward.
Make Dead Hard Fair.
Comments
Seems like a good idea but I'd imagine a lot of Hook farming would take plave if such a change came into the game
All I can think of is the insane hook rush that would happen, especially in solo queue, where playing selfishly is the best way to survive
I'm waiting for another suggestion
I love this idea actually. What needs to be added that it, should require a safe hook rescue. Now it's very easy to get these unhooks safely actually, unless you farm. So, if you selfishly farm only for DH, be sure you won't get it. The issue here would be BT. And here I wouls also give an additional suggestion to a BT change. Borrowed Time stays inactive for 10 when a survivor just got hooked.
As a solo q player i get farmed enough as it is lol, a better requirement would be "safely unhook" a survivor. Also the reason dead hard and sprint burst are "free" is because they're exhaustion perks, the same way noed is "free" is because it's a hex; if such a change was implemented dead hard shouldn't be an exhaustion perk anymore, therefore say hello to sprint burst/dead hard combos.
About an exhaustion, that's what I was thinking about. Good point.
I mean obviously if dead hard worked with tokens (a token per safe unhook) it would be much less used and four survivors using it wouldn't be very practical considering only one can unhook at a time. Honestly way less dead hards vs sprint burst + dead hards seem like a fair trade, but I'm assuming a lot of people would disagree
So you mean you would give max one token, just like Second Wind or Renewal (whoever likes one of these perk names)
Yeah, you gain a token with each unhook but can't stack them, i guess it'd activate the perk like inner strength instead of showing a token then (because being able to use multiple dead hards during a chase doesn't seem like much a nerf lmao)
Seems fair. BT still would be a bit an issue here, however:
Here I wrote about BT aswell.
I thought you were close to my idea with Dead Hard but I went the other route. Dead Hard remains the same for exhaustion/distance/i-frames but it only activates after being unhooked (similar to DS but without the timer) and once used, it de-activates.
This makes it so Dead Hard is not active in the early game allowing killers to build some earlier pressure, incentives killers taking a chase with a survivors with 0 hook states as they won't have Dead Hard, gives the survivor another protection against tunneling, and limits the number of Dead Hards that can be seen in a given match.
Even can fit lore wise as you get the ability as you get closer to death.
Not making BT activate for 10s would be making it useless for people wanting to use it properly against facecampers or basement campers by immediately going for the unhook, it would also allow BT players to farm unhooks with no safety net for the unhooked survivor. Honestly I don't think BT would be much a problem, yes there's people who would equip it to gain safe unhook stacks, but they already do for we'll make it stacks and honestly it's not that bad (or at least it's better than people farming without it)
I have an idea. Cuz sprint burst plus DH would be crucial, I would make it inactive when there is an existing exhaust. It normally is active unless there is an exhaust.
I'm not sure what you mean but if you're saying it doesn't work if the survivor has an exhaustion perk, then it's a big no no lol. If you mean it doesn't work when the survivor is exhausted from an other perk then it's the same thing as it being an exhaustion perk and if you mean it doesn't work if the survivor has an exhaustion perk but isn't exhausted then the survivor would sitll be able to use both perks in one chase easily, mostly with sprint burst where you're exhausted as soon as you start the chase. I don't think there's any way to prevent sprint burst/dead hard combos if dead hard isn't an exhaustion perk anymore.
I was thinking about applying it after an Unhook, but I think that wouldn't change the frequency we are seeing Dead Hards, which I think is kinda the point.
Sure, it still eliminates it in the early game, but by principle, you're still looking to hook every survivor. After you hooked every survivor once, it essentially becomes Dead Hard as it is now.
Requiring a rescue gives it a few other factors. For one, you aren't given it for free, and getting hooked yourself isn't earning you anything; you have to stay alive and contribute to be able to use it.
Not a bad idea - but it would unfortunately ruin the game. I'll get to that part later.
First, let's talk about the economy of Dead Hard.
Let's ignore Exhaustion until later - and start talking about prerequisites.
The prerequisite of unhooking someone is arbitrary, and it DOES allow for some players to find utility with the perk - but it demands action upon action, without falling in line with the theme or true problems of the perk.
The issue with Dead Hard is that it is FREE. Every 40 seconds out of chase or so, it can be used. Survivors feel no actual impact to it being employed. As killer... if you leave the chase when a survivor uses the perk, you're doubly screwed - because the player will just heal up in a corner with CoH or a medkit and be ready to repeat the fruitless chase in a matter of seconds. In order for the killer to recuperate lost value, they are forced to double down on the chase, or chalk it all up as a veritable loss.
Your 'unhooking' approach to this is to force survivors to pay it forward in order to have the option of use in the first place. A nice approach, but I fear that it may become too contextual and clunky to find value in the survivor's hands - and ultimately leads to worse gameplay... more hook bombs and survivors sitting by hooks instead of sitting on generators - while killers will camp hooks and prioritize the unhooked one rather than the unhooker - radically undoing the positive gameplay inspired by BT. In addition, going for the unhook is risky - meaning you may find more uses of Dead Hard as the unhooker, but you are also more likely to die. They pay it forward, but it can both be an easy trade if the hook is not contested - or a lopsided trade if it is not. It's either absolute value, or a concessional value.
It's a solid concept. But it is flawed. I think there's a more eloquent solution though.
Broken.
Use Dead Hard as usual, once injured. And the player becomes Broken for 60 seconds. This perk cannot be used again until restored to the Healthy state. Cannot be used while Broken.
Bam.
Survivors get to use their precious perk, same as always, but now they can't make a quick getaway and heal back up. Now, they can't have the perk without consequences. This limits the amount used - and is very team-dependent as well as item thirsty. Survivors can still skulk away to heal, but only after 1 minute of having to live with the consequences of their actions. No more will survivors use their Dead-Hard poorly, get hooked - use Deliverance - then use DH again to evade a vengeful rebuttal to the play. No. Now, you use Dead Hard - you cant use other Broken perks. You can leave chase, but you're not going to be able to heal up to re-use it. What, no more charges in the medkit or boons? Teammates occupied? You're going to need at least 16 seconds of healing to get your perk back.
Killers in chase may even leave a survivor out of a Dead Hard sighting. They already got the health state and don't have to waste their time, they can always come back later to finish the job - and the perk will be deactivated until healed... which also lets killers know exactly when certain survivors have it or not. The perk retains its overall use, but is limited in frequency, and killers feel like they can plainly see on their HUD when they can expect it to be brought back into play.
Dead Hard can single handedly win games by denying hooks and standoffs. It is honestly one of - if not THE most versatile and useful perk in the survivor's arsenal. But by forcing players to remain Broken, and tying its use to being restored to full health - the perk demands a certain level of devotion and upkeep to utilize properly. In the hands of a poor player, the Broken status will be their undoing. In a coordinated team, the perk can still be used to great effect with sufficient foresight and consideration.
All the perks of the unhooking prerequisite without the finite limitations, the jarring shift, the toxic gameplay, the horrible backlash, or the paranoia.
It just makes the game a lot more convoluted at that point. Safe unhooks typically grant things like Deliverance - a 1 time use niche perk.
If you require a SAFE UNHOOK to use this CHASE PERK - you're going to be going into unhooks with the wrong reasons and coming out with even worse ones. Running Borrowed Time Dead Hard will be absolutely broken, as killers will have to choose between chasing an unhooker that likely has Dead Hard who will be injured once, and then use the perk to extend the chase to around 45-60 seconds.
OR
The killer can just walk behind the unhooked survivor and wait 12 seconds to M1 them.
By giving a powerful chase perk to a safe unhook - you made the entire Dead By Daylight Killer community default to chasing the unhooked survivor.
This change would make killers hyper tunnel over night.
I do disagree.
The one thing is - Sprint Burst + Dead Hard would not be so ugly if Dead Hard itself required sufficient payment and consideration.
As a lame example, if using Dead Hard caused you to be Hindered by 15% for 10 seconds after its use with a 1 minute cooldown, that would make it a horrible perk to run in chase, but make it excellent for last-ditch efforts and tight loops. Giving the killer a greater advantage than Bloodlust 3 is massive. If this were the case, killers really, REALLY wouldn't mind if players took Sprint Burst and DH every game - because the use of DH would be incredibly nerfed in many situations. It would not be 'free'. In truth, Sprint Burst is nowhere near as bad as many people give it credit for.
DH is 'free' in terms of what it accomplishes. I frames for exhaustion means it can be recycled through the effects of normal gameplay. It can literally be used twice in a row in the span of 15 seconds if you DH into a hook, die, get hooked and hook-bombed, then use it off the hook.
Exhaustion is a currency for chases disengagements. However, DH is NOT a chase disengagement tool - it is a powerful, POWERFUL utility that requires a completely different economy of its own. Preferably that of health states, seeing as it gives a virtual health state on correct use.
This also means the best way to counter the use of Dead Hard is to camp survivors and deny health states.
If the economy of the game's most lucrative survivor perk is to create safe unhooks, the killer's best bet us to tunnel unhooked survivors and camp them to ensure there are no unhooks available.
You're signing a blank check to all the toxic killers, sadly.
It's a good idea, but it has some major, MAJOR issues.
What if the survivor fully recovered from Exhaustion when unhooked during Summon Phase, as they currently do, but do not fully recover when unhooked during the Struggle Phase?
During the first stage, they're just hanging out chiling and can catch their breath. But being spry and good to go after struggling for their life during struggle phase? Like, what?