Tsulan
Tsulan
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@kamisen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986987#Comment_1986987
Then why are you trying to push me to interpret the data? I have said three times now that we cannot make assumptions based on the data alone.
Oh my bad. I kinda was in flow...
Nevermind then.
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@kamisen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986855#Comment_1986855
What is your point?
That the stats we have right now are useless, because there are a million ways to interpret them differently.
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@kamisen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986911#Comment_1986911
The following stations are en route:
- DS Station
- NOED Station
- Dead Hard Station
- BBQ Station
- Spine Chill Station
BBQ? Why?
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@kamisen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986767#Comment_1986767
I'm not claiming that. I'm claiming that we could interpret lots of things from the data (not only that low pick rate = inflated number). Possible interpretations from the data:
- Pig's kill ratio is misleading because of expert players being overrepresented in the sample population
- Pig's kill ratio is high due to survivors being killed by traps
- Pig's high kill ratio and low pick rate is due to her skill ceiling being high
- Pig's low pick rate is due to her being regarded as 'low tier'
- Pig's low pick rate is due to her being low tier
- Other killers (spirit) kill ratio are misleading because of low skilled players being overrepresented in the sample population
- Other killers pick ratio are misleading because of being regarded as 'high tier'
- Etc.
We are getting slightly off topic here but as you pointed out, statistics alone is not enough. My point is not opinions bad, stats good. It's that we need to be aware of our confirmation bias, be nuanced and stop blaming external problems for our own shortcomings.
Lastly about nurse. I think some killers are more unique than others where you cannot capitalize from general killer skills in the same way. Nurse is extra special in that regard. Probably more so than pig (but I don't play them nearly enough to compare).
The exact points you made could be used on god nurses. Yet their stats look vastly different.
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After the Update its kinda still broken. It was a double depip, because someone disconnected.
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@kamisen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986687#Comment_1986687
Or rather: following that logic, we can't infer anything from data without analyzing it further.
Well, you claim Pig has a high skill ceiling. Higher than Nurse?
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986520#Comment_1986520
I've met one or two, and am hoping to become one.
I'm gonna grind nurse even though rn I suck at her. She's fun, but I'll get better over time.
Watch out. Survivors love to bully noob nurses.
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@kamisen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986354#Comment_1986354
I agree that the data needs to be analyzed and contextualized. But seeing that all killers suffer from the same matchmaking, we can probably disregard that as a factor. If I remember correctly, the data was collected from all players over a period of time, so the amount of samples would have been pretty decent.
I've also heard that the argument the low pick rates inflates her number, but that's more of a hypothesis, no? It could also mean that she has a very high skill ceiling but that players who crack the code are more consistently successful, whereas spirit has lower skill ceiling but a generally lower kill rate. Especially when considering the statistics from red rank players. Again, I don't know but I think it adds some food for thought!
Following that logic, the Nurse needs a Buff.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986401#Comment_1986401
Amen brother.
I'm learning nurse, and she's quite fun.
If you buff her, imagine what those god tier nurses will do to those poor survivors (*shudders involuntary*)
There are no god tier nurses anymore.
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The problem with the stats are the pick rates and the matchmaking.
Pig will have always a higher kill rate, because her pick rate is low. She´s only played by her mains and since survivors rarely face her, they haven´t learned how to play against her.
Matchmaking also influences the kill stats badly, because it only shows that red rank killers have a high kill rate, but doesn´t show what survivors they faced. Right now we get rainbow matches. Where everyone is matched with and against players that have a complete different skill level.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986208#Comment_1986208
I'd say I still play more killer than survivor, I'm just too impatient to wait in queues for more than 5mins.
Also survivor can get samey after a few games where different killers really switch it up.
Even if I feel you put up with more in game and post game crap, killer is still more fun than survivor and I rate games down as killer not because I didn't have fun, but more because I was forced to play with people I often would never play with as they really are just unpleasant people online.
The clickity clickers, the BM'ers, the stupid names, the post game tantrums, none of it upsets me but it kinda breaks the immersion when someone follows you around all match clicking at you with a torch and that just lowers game experience for me.
The BM after the match is really annoying. Doesn´t matter how the killer played. If it was a 0k or a 4k. There will be salty survivors going out of their way to make the killer feel bad.
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@pseudechis said:
My solo survivor experience is really different to this.
Yeah you get games where you can run the killer for a minute and not a single gen pops or you can hang on hook and watch your buddies do nothing while you slip into second stage.
I've been camped and tunneled but not often and usually because my team mates have created the scenario where its advantageous for the killer to do so rather than the killer just targetted me. The number of times I've been farmed in the killer's face. Also to say all of one particular killer camps is kinda BS.
But games like that are the exceptions not the norm.
I played pretty much only killer for the first year of the game, but have delved into survivor for the last 6 months and now play both regularly, still prefer killer.
I'd say survivor is far less stressful, generally easier, on the receiving end of far less toxicity, I've rarely been abused in endgame by a killer. I'm often more disgusted by my teammates behaviour than the killer's.
I'd say I have a 3-5 star game experience as survivor for most games, where as, even though I prefer playing killer, I often rate games as 1-3 stars just on the poor state of survivor behaviour.
Getting slugged is part of the game and you are still in play, crawl dammit. Make that killer look for you. Best escape I ever had I crawled across the map to the hatch and escaped. I mean ACROSS the map, from one corner to the other nearly, on corn map. It still makes me smile to think about it.
I'd say slugging the last survivor to bleed out is really obnoxious, but its kinda like the survivor team who stand their BM'ing at the gate for the whole egc, just leave dammit. That's what I do if we are all there and all healed and the killer is nowhere in sight I just leave.
Survivor queues are long enough without standing around for 2 mins to button mash every match. I'd rather get back into the queue and move on, than waste my time.
I often find myself empathizing with an angry killer because they have probably had a run of really ######### matches and after I run them well they hook and smack me and I can't help thinking is this about me or is it you've just had enough for the night and I've drawn the short straw ire for the evening. I'm not condoning it but I understand where it may come from.
Also the very theme of the game is that the killer is kind of meant to torture and murder you, so I can't say I get upset when they do just that because hey its thematic. I don't mind being mori'd, it feels like an appropriate end.
I should state that I don't give a ######### about rank, but find the red rank gaming experience to often be more unpleasant than a casual green/purp mid rank game experience.
(This is all just my personal opinion and play experience of course your experience may differ).
I have the exact same experience. I was a killer main, switched to survivor and wow it is so much easier. Now i only start killer for the archives or a daily.
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@Venusa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1985306#Comment_1985306
That's a really cool idea. It adds some new elements to the game. Also I would love a totem counter!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1985313#Comment_1985313
Yeah I can see that. At least giving the warning would make it more fun to go against and endgame could potentionally turn entertaining.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1985321#Comment_1985321
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1985329#Comment_1985329
As a solo player it kind of is. I can't rely on random players to do them. So potentially I have to ignore my main objective and search around the map for minutes while not participating with gens/saves. You guys have to be realistic here... How many games have you had where all 5 totems were found and cleansed?
Take Detectives Hunch. You´ll do them all in no time.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1983341#Comment_1983341
you DO realize removing hatch will NOT solve that right?
Like they will still just hide.
Of course it will prevent that. Once there is only 1 survivor left the EGC starts. No need to slug.
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Is doing totems really to much to ask for?
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Maybe the survivor and the killer know each other.
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@Satori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1984738#Comment_1984738
Wait, but Vigil already reduce exhaustion timer
Then for personal use. Stacks with Vigil.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1984775#Comment_1984775
Of course it’s useless. In 90% of games it won’t even get any use at all. In the other 10% when it does get used they’ll just eat the DS and keep tunnelling. It doesn’t protect against tunnelling but also does nothing else.
Well, then be happy that 90% of your matches contain non tunneling killers.
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@rha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1984741#Comment_1984741
A lot of the time someone hook suicides the killer is already dominating so much that the game is already lost.
Imagine the last survivors have all been slugged and killer is hooking them one by one. Someone decides it's not worth struggling for points and he can better move on to the next game while the killer is carrying the last survivor to his hook. Total domination, survivors destroyed, 4K. Killers: „That match shall not count for stats, a survivor hook suicided!!“
What about matches where
- the killer does intentionally not kill anyone (I do this, I just double-hook everyone and let them go)
- it's a farming game
- matches where the killer has killed three survivors, catches the last one and gives him hatch, shouldn't this count as a 4K for stats rather than 3k?
Uh I guess all that is welcome to be included in the stats, why not ask for kill stats where all matches are excluded where at least one survivor was sacrificed?
So, in some matches stuff happens that benefits the killer so he gets a higher kill rate. Other matches go so that kill rate is lower. Trying to remove the former from stats and keeping the latter is not really honest.
Not on red or purple ranks. Killer is Freddy? Watch how someone runs straight to him, with 5 gens up and 0 hooks to get hooked and suicides.
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@Beelzeboop said:
It won't help.
There are like four data points that matter to the devs:
- What perks are used
- What items are used
- What killer is used
- How many survivors escape
Nothing else seems to matter to them.
Well, they clearly missed the memo on the survivor meta that hasn´t changed in 3 years.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1984555#Comment_1984555
I don’t, I only just got it the other week in the showcase. I’m just pointing out how useless of a perk it will become
It´s not useless. It protects against tunneling killers. Just like it does now.
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@rha said:
Why no hook suicides? Let’s either see real stats or none.
Someone who runs straight to the killer and then suicides, isn´t exactly playing a real match is he?
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Killer:
- Gen slowdown perk (that attempts to counter the current meta)
- Gen progress detection perk (that will be ignored like 90% of the other gen detection perks)
- Healing perk that reduces the time survivors need to heal BUT while doing so, they have a higher skill check chance.
Survivor:
- anti tunnel perk (DS got nerfed, so we need a new king)
- perk that increases the max uses of 1 time use perks (enjoy getting stabbed for 8 times)
- perk that refreshes the exhaustion timer of the teammates while being close.
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The spotlight trailer should launch together with the PTB. That way, people that can´t install the PTB, at least get some official information about whats coming.
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@Terro said:
They'll be higher cuz the DC penalties is up, more ppl are likely to suicide on hooks now or generally just give up and the patch 4.5 desync bug.
Good point.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1984402#Comment_1984402
That’s exactly why I said it, I probably get tunnelled off hook in about 10% of games so most of the time it’s gonna be pointless. It’s just not worth bringing at all with the new changes
Why bring it now?
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Obviously, if the killer chases someone for more than 30 seconds, he´s tunneling.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1984364#Comment_1984364
The new DS is far from strong, I can only see it working in about 10% of games if that. It’s gonna be a wasted perk slot but at the same time it might just be needed to have an obsession in the game
Well, if you´re not getting tunneled, then yes. It´s a wasted perk slot.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1984215#Comment_1984215
They already have. It was a topic on the last Dev Q&A. This thread is just to push the issue more. To make it seem like its a real issue.
Oh i´m sure nothing bad would happen if killers were forced to play against a sweaty SWF team or face a penalty for dodging.
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If you don´t want to get dodged, then just play killer and find out why killers dodge.
This is already the third thread on lobby dodging i see today. I wonder how long it takes until survivors demand penalties for lobby dodging.
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So... just to make this clear. You are mad at a perk, that reduces camping, by giving them alternative targets. Because you shouldn´t be punished by that.
Would you rather prefer, they remove BBQ and killers camp the first living being they find?
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As it says on my profile: You not touch totem!
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Man i can´t wait for all the threads demanding a lobby dodge penalty!
Killer just isn´t fun anymore. So unless the devs do something about it, survivors will see a lot of dodging killers.
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Killer isn't fun anymore. That's why survivors have long queues.
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Honestly, does anyone still use Undying?
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1983280#Comment_1983280
Yeah at 2 left they are not going to win, one will die so they play safer. That isn't a good enough reason to remove hatch and games that last an extra 5 minutes or even near that when there are 2 left are rare. As said last survivor hatch escapes are fine. In fact removing the hatch wouldn't even solve this.
still doesn't change the fact that it would make 4k wins wayyy too easy and what's funny is that they can't even reduce gate time to compensate for the killer you would go against or gate spawns since gates themselves are too rng and there isn't a right way to do them due to the large variety of killers we have. edit: Also pretty much all indoor maps have set gate spawns, on lerrys, the game, and hawkens any gate set up is actually too far to effectively patrol so escaping on that against certain killers would almost always happen.
Removing hatch just isn't the correct thing to do for those reasons not to mention that while it would make the killer community happy it would piss off survivor players more since as said last survivor hatch escapes means the killer won regardless. Also before you mention second chance perks or whatever it DOES NOT MATTER in the case of last survivor hatch escapes due to it's nature and the fact that not every damn player runs second chance perks and hatch effects all players.
So you prefer to keep a stale mechanic, that makes for a boring experience (survivors hiding instead of doing gens and killers slugging) just to prevent that the killer gets a 4k.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1983206#Comment_1983206
The same can be said on the survivors part, why should they barely have a chance if any at all depending on the killer to escape just because the other 3 died.
The logic goes both ways and killers don't need a 4k every time they win, it doesn't matter what they brought the last one should have a decent chance at still being able to escape.
All I'm reading off you is "I want free 4k's on won games", and you can't say I'm biased because i want there to be an actual balanced way to open hatch with keys and unlike you i presented an idea for it instead of the lazy "just remove it".
Lastly the last survivor escaping by hatch has always been and will always be fine and fair.
The hatch is unhealthy. Even for survivors. The last survivor usually isn't the one that performed well,but the one who was hiding and searching the hatch once there is only 2 survivors left.
I stopped counting the amount of times where only 1 gen was left, I kept the killer busy and the other survivor just ignored gens and searched for the hatch. This isn't great gameplay for the third survivor. It's boring and stale. Just like slugging the third survivor and searching the hatch/last survivor.
Removing the hatch would solve this.
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@SilentPill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1983216#Comment_1983216
You are complaining about survivor second chance perks, so I compare it to NOED. A key is hardly a free win in solo Q. The matchmaking is outright broken.
Even if you find the hatch, gathering up all your teammates is a nightmare and someone is bound to get caught first.
And as I said, killers still have plenty of “I win” buttons they can push. Iri head, rusty shackles, tombstone piece, tampered timer+crate of gears, alchemists ring, mother daughter ring, etc etc.
Now you're comparing addons to perks. Survivors have red syringes, BNP, etc. So what's the point comparing those with perks?
Now that I think about it. Making the hatch spawn perk dependent, like NOED, sounds like a great idea. Of course, the perk would also require a counter. NOED has totems, so the new perk (let's call it Third Chance) would spawn a red shard on the map. Whenever the killer finds it and cleanses it during the match, the hatch doesn't spawn (just like NOED).
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@SilentPill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1983206#Comment_1983206
NOED is the ultimate killer second chance perk. I don’t see too much wrong with keys in solo Q, it’s extremely hard to coordinate leaving through the hatch without communication.
Killers still have loads of busted addons to use. Why shouldn’t survivors have some good stuff? All that’s left is medkits really and those are pretty boring. Flashlights hardly work against good killers.
Don't compare perks to game mechanics unless you want that survivors equip a perk so the hatch spawns.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1982542#Comment_1982542
Sorry but saying it is outdated isn’t reason enough to convince me that it should be removed.
Also, triggering the EGC instead of hatch spawning, would be like what happens when the killer finds hatch immediately. Most gates don’t open because the gates are too close. With the right killer/perk (like whispers) it’s like we’re back to boring gameplay again.
That idea isn’t interactive whatsoever.
See message above.
Also, survivors could equip Lauries aura blocking perk (don't remember the name now) and Wake Up.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1982546#Comment_1982546
doesn't matter if the killer is meta
The team failed as a whole. Why does the last survivor need another second chance on top of all the second chances he already has? Where is that second chance mechanic for the killer that performs bad?
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1982532#Comment_1982532
Sometimes with gate spawn rng both gates spawn on the same wall or in los. Nothing you can really do in those situations.
See above your post.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1982532#Comment_1982532
not against doctor, demo, or any high mobility killer.
Doctor and Demo aren't exactly meta killers. Annoying? Sure, but meta?
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1980959#Comment_1980959
Im curious... why remove it and not re-work it to make it more fun/interactive?
As much as I am not a fan of keys atm, Im against flat out removing things. Hatch has a place in this game, it would be great if there was some rng attached to the actual key itself (for example) so it may , may not work when using it. Could even be attached to those luck offerings that just take up space in our inventories.
Hatch is a outdated mechanic. That can be easily removed, by simply triggering the EGC once there is only 1 survivor left.
They could increase the minimum distance between the gates or buff Wake Up to compensate.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1981086#Comment_1981086
Using your stupid example:
What if the last Survivor played well?
They shouldn't have any chance to escape?
Insert stupid argument about it's a team game and they don't deserve to escape blah blah blah
Having 2 gates to choose from is having no chance?
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1982037#Comment_1982037
Thing took me like 20 minutes and then at the end they wanted me to spend another 5 minutes booting up DBD and getting that ridiculously long ID code. Honestly if they're gonna start asking for your ID they need to start rewarding people for doing these surveys. Or make them much shorter
I skipped the ID part. I see no point in giving them my ID over the survey.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1981234#Comment_1981234
They also aren’t allowed to use the strongest killers in the game and there’s many other things restricted for killers so this has no indication of you’re crazy idea that this game is extremely survivor sided. Plus I’ve only watched like 1 match and the killer was getting stuck on corners and looping the wrong way and made terrible decisions. It was like green rank gameplay.
Oh survivors played similarly. Very passive, very save. 1 being on the hook and 3 at the gate with no NOED? Lets escape instead of going for the guaranteed save.
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@Afius said:
It's possible another reason they added the hook counter is if they planned to change how points are tallied in a competitive seen. From reading what you guys have posted basing points around kills seems like it leads to a pretty boring viewing experience.
I see a problem with the hook counter. It counts hook stages as hooks. So someone who suicides on the first hook, counts as 3 hooks instead of 1.
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You don´t need a special mouse for that. Just go to key bindings and change the struggle key to the mouse wheel.