TieBreaker
TieBreaker
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All BHVR has to do is bring back the variable gen speed mechanic from 2v8, and appropriately tune it. Even if it only kicked in during the most one-sided matches, it would be a huge win for the game's health. Solo survivors would disproportionately benefit from the system, which would also be a massive victory.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914657#Comment_3914657
If you don't want to play, don't. I mean if survivor is so miserable for people that they know they'll want to go next multiple times, what are they even doing queuing up? Are they masochists?
It's just mind boggling how many people cry and wail and whinge about how playing surv is worse than being waterboarded, but yet they still queue up in survivor, just to go next and perpetuate the cycle of dumbassery. The solution here seems pretty straight forward: don't play at all.
And I play both sides extensively, and in my experience, the vast majority of people bail in the first minute or two, and without clear cause.
I think when it comes to survivors giving up, it's less about what happened in that match, and more about what's happened in the matches prior. Players that have a string of bad matches, tend to be more prone to giving up due to small things. That's why it's hard to understand in the moment sometimes.
Some players are just bratty and entitled. But I tend to assume that a survivor who goes next immediately, probably had some lousy matches before, and just doesn't know when to stop playing, and go do something else.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
This isn't feedback on the perk, because I'm not playing the PTB on account of there not being any content that interests me that won't inevitably be changed from PTB to Live. But I have been seeing a good number of people going "Duty Of Care is abusable and OP", and quite honestly? I don't really see it.
Now, to be fair, I do agree that the perk can be really obnoxious against a 4 man with comms. But the problem I have with that is that it runs under the assumption that a 4 man with Comms is particularly common, which, contrary to what people who have never played Survivor in their life might think, is just fundamentally untrue, SWF, especially the 4man comp boogeymen, are not that common, and quite honestly I don't think I've actually gone against a 4man SWF that had the express intent of winning and humiliating me in actual years, most SWF are just 2 dudes chilling in a Discord call, not a 4 man goof troop intent on ruining people's days.
The second point I have is just asking you to really think on it, how frequently do you, as Killer, get body-blocked by a survivor, or how frequently do you see people taking protection hits? At most I see it happen like once, maybe twice, and I end up downing the body-blocker like 20 seconds later anyway. Body-blocks really do not happen that often, and sure a perk that requires protection hits might encourage more people to go for them, but if we really want to go by that logic, why don't more people run Mettle of Man? Why don't people run more perks that enable repeat body blocks? Simple reason, it ain't worth it.
Like lets really think about this critically for a second, lets say someone runs Duty Of Care in place of one of their existing perks and gets value from it, the killer in that case is just going to chase them. If that's the user's intention then great, the perk's done its job, but what if the user is running a build designed to make the perk as obnoxious as possible? Quite frankly that's a indirect buff to the Killer, because that's one less person running a Meta build, and, more importantly, one less person actively doing gens. Like really think about that, if you're running a build designed to get you healed up quickly and get repeated protection hits, you're probably not going to be on gens, you're going to be in a corner healing, running to teammates for heals, or be in the killer's face going for a body-block. You're not doing the objective, you're not really helping the team progress the state of the match, you're being a annoyance, an effective annoyance probably, but still a annoyance, and honestly I don't really have much issue with that, I'd rather play against a goober not doing gens then a team that wants to do the gens as fast as possible. Interactions between both sides are fun, and this perk means more interactions, which is fine by me.
And the final reason I don't really see the perk being a issue is that a good chunk of killers and perks can either completely ignore it, or render it completely ineffectual, Mobility killers are not going to care if you give someone 6 seconds of Dramaturgy speed, and every killer with a insta-down power or a Exposed perk is just never going to notice it, hell even Legion to a degree can completely negate Duty Of Care by virtue of keeping survivors injured most of the match. Even in a 4-man squad this perk has plenty of counterplay, and that's why I don't feel it will be a issue, you as a Killer have options to counteract it, it forces Survivors to interact with the killer to get value out of it, and the majority of players simply don't play in a way that would make the perk particularly obnoxious. Annoying in a 4-man when you're playing a killer with no insta-down or Exposed perks? Sure, but we shouldn't be concerned or cry foul about perks that might be obnoxious in a literal 1 in a thousand scenario, we should be looking at how something is used by the majority of the player base, and if the majority of the player base either doesn't use it or only uses it in a couple of scenarios, it'll probably be fine.
I said this when Shoulder The Burden released and consequently fell into near irrelevancy less then a month later, don't overhype Niche perks and act like they'll lead to some new insane strategy that'll make killer incredibly unfun and therefore needs to be nerfed immediately, it's 6 seconds of Dramaturgy speed, I think most killers will be fine.
G'night
Sorry man, but Choy's already released a video saying things are so bad he's probably done playing killer.
Let the hysteria begin.
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@NebulaArcana said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3913883#Comment_3913883
Could I ask who "we" refers to? Also, I personally believe that if Ghoul had the range back, that would be a lot more fun than if his pallet vault was nerfed. To me, the appeal of Ghoul is his mobility, not so much his ability to jump over pallets.
They've found something unbalanced that they can crutch on. They'll kick and scream till the end to hold onto it. Just like Xeno at launch. Some players thought it was balanced to be able to miss an M2, walk right behind the survivor due to the lack of slowdown after whiffing, and just M1 for free a couple of seconds later.
I genuinely don't know why BHVR keeps repeating the same mistakes. OG scamper was just dumb. It caused a ton of problems, and yet they gave it to another character, even buffing his vault from the PTB to live. BIzzare.
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
It would be so cool if you could use his power at loops. At the moment he can´t attach to stuff close to his location which makes him ckunky, but more importantly doesn´t allow to use his power at loops. It would be sooo cool if you allowed him to do some crazy outplays at loops with his power.
He used to be able to use his power as a pseudo-anti-loop. It required skill.
It was on the PTB. He could hugtech around windows and pallets if there was something he could latch on to on the other side. You would latch on to it (a tree or something) and quickly look to the side, so that you don't vault the window/pallet. This would cause you to slide against the obstacles and arrive at the other side. You could easily counter Killer Shack by doing this from the outside and slide straight inside.
They removed this tech when they pushed him to the Live server. They strictly do not want the power to be used during loops in a conventional sense because they were afraid of it being overpowered because of the easy injure. If they were to keep the hugtech, Kaneki would have had to lose the injure and just be a pure mobility killer instead. Now he's something in between. His power is nonlethal, but can be used intelligently to cut off a survivor's path, while still having an easy injure. After the latest round of nerfs, the character overall feels perfectly fine. No further changes are needed, really.
The nerfs that I don´t like are his range nerfs, it makes attaching to stuff without getting the above mentioned cooldown and crosshair disappearing more annoying.
I agree that the dash range didn't need to be nerfed. That just seemed unnecessary (the power is already nonlethal and can only be used for mobility - why nerf the range?) The only range nerf that was needed was the range in which he can grab onto Survivors. Nerfing the range holistically was not necessary.
Everything else is fine. Character feels well balanced in my opinion.
I struggle a lot with knowing where the crosshair will pop up before activating his power. There should be an option to make his crosshair permanently visible and please not as addon.
It's the center of your screen. Just visualize the center of your screen. I don't want a crosshair permanently in the middle of my screen when I play this character. "Bro just make it a toggle" no, it's unnecessary and will use up dev time for little gain. It's the middle of your screen and it doesn't require that much precision.
I dont know how to describe the next point well. When using his power and failing to aim at somethging or being too close to something, makes your Crosshair disappear and puts it on a short cooldown. This is very frustrating and annoying. Please remove that.
I wouldn't be against this. But the reason why it's currently implemented is because they want you to think carefully about where you want to dash. That's just how they wanted to design the gameplay experience as The Ghoul. They don't want you to spam clicks. If they don't change this, in the meantime you can just adopt a more methodical playstyle when using the power.
People are now complaining about the enraged vault.
Let's get into that. I believe his vaulting speed is fine and shouldn't be changed.
Let's take Wesker for example.
Wesker can down you with M2, Kaneki cannot. So the compensation Kaneki has is a faster vault in order to M1 you since he can't M2 you at loops. It just takes time to adapt and learn which loops he can catch you at by doing this and which he cannot. It's actually quite binary unless he's Hasted or you're Hindered. It takes time to map it out.
As I said, it just takes time to learn where to kite him towards. If the enraged vault means he can catch you with the M1, that just means you can't run that loop while he's enraged and while he can see you to vault at you.
There ARE loops wide enough where his enraged vault does not lead into an eventual M1. My point is just that it takes time to figure out which loops you should or should not run while he is enraged. The vault speed is the way it is because he needs to M1 you. Wesker's vault is slower because he can M2 you, so they slow down his vault to prevent him from just abusing it to catch you with an M1 if you're outmaneuvering his power around a pallet.
It wouldn't make any sense balance-wise if Kaneki's enraged vault was too slow because you'd just play Wesker instead. There are fundamental reasons why Wesker's vault takes longer and Kaneki's is shorter.
The character feels perfectly fine now. I think it's fair for both sides and no further changes are needed.
You're misrepresenting how effective, counterplay against his enraged vault is.
You say that it only grants a free M1 at SOME loops. It's not some, it's most.
You make it sound like as long as survivors are smart, and choose their loops carefully, they can counter his vault and deny the free hit. As though survivors can choose where to loop a killer that can cross most of the map in seconds. Survivors have to make do with whatever is nearby. There's no luxury of choice.
Let's be honest, just like Xeno's tail recovery at launch, and Chucky's OG scamper, the vault is a crutch to brute force hits without exercising skill. It requires no technical execution to pull off, and it completely invalidates a massive amount of loops. I'm not shocked that you would want to hold onto that.
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I'm just left wondering why would you join a PTB, just so you can sit in a house until the server craps out?
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There goes another one 🥀
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I mean realistically the only other killer (besides Ghoul) that this would make sense for is Blight. None of the other dash killers are strong enough to warrant that nerf.
Don't forget the other top tier dash killer.
#NerfPig
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I'm not in favour of removing any type of stacking. Having less creativity is not a good thing. If the devs want to address over-stacking buffs, then they should impose hard caps. Let players stack perks and add-ons, but place a limit on how high those buffs can go.
Although, I think the devs are trying to streamline the game by removing variety (stacking and map variants so far), so removing options might be the ultimate goal and not just a byproduct.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911419#Comment_3911419
I personally don't see an issue with slugging for hatch. It's not his fault that's how they designed hatch.
I probably should've added that to the exception list though. I'm more just talking about slugging in the match for this topic, not really the end. Do you take issue with slugging in the match?
I don't blame killer players for slugging for hatch. I blame the devs for not finding a solution for it lmao.
No, slugging is fine as a mechanic. It's much like other things in this game, where it only becomes problematic when pushed to it's extreme. I've been slugged by many Oni players, and I always wish them well as they leave me bleeding out, to go find someone else to flatten with his power.
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I have no problem with situational slugging. Sometimes it's beneficial to do so. Sometimes survivors force you to, by going for sabo plays. That's all fine for me.
Slugging a survivor to stop hatch spawning feels cringeworthy though. The match is already won at that point. So is it necessary to have someone bleed out for four minutes just to avoid losing one kill? I get that the game lets you do a bunch of unfun things to secure a victory, but it's kind of down to us to stop matches from degenerating into a miserable slog, seeing as BHVR is slow to address the game's most problematic issues.
Bleeding a full team for the lulz is just sad. But at least there's a way out now for those of us who are too busy travelling the world and kissing attractive women on the mouth, to lie there for four minutes doing absolutely nothing.
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Isn't there some bug with the Elk skin, where her lullaby doesn't play? I've seen a couple of them running Elk with iri hatchets.
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Head On + Flashbang is a counter. Slow vault into a locker and wait for them to come for you. Stun them, blind them, and then cheese it away.
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You want THAT lock on system added to every killer? That's nuts. Are you sure that players want auto-aim, instead of having skill expression? My guess is that if BHVR did what you suggest, Huntress and Slinger players would quit en masse.
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Why do people act like the devs have a bunch of nerfs ready to go, and are just waiting for people to complain enough before they go live? It takes time to theory-craft a fix, it's gotta be programmed and tested. Then it has to be approved for release by platform holders. It takes time.
There's consensus that the Ghoul needs nerfs. But stop expecting the devs to instantly fix things. It's as though you have no idea how long it takes to get things done, and think the devs can just shart out a round of changes in a day or two. Let the devs fix the Ghoul properly, instead of rushing out a bunch of bodged changes.
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It's true that removing haste/hindered stacking will be more healthy for the game, but it will also remove a lot of creativity at the same time, which is a shame.
Hopefully whatever positives come from future updates, is enough to offset the interesting things we lose.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/442450/harmless-anti-tunneling-suggestion
Ok, but when will we get anti genrush and anti swf?
If you want to give feedback on your problems with the game, go make a thread about it. OP should be able to give suggestions without you coming in and trying to make it about you.
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I'm not sure where the Ghoul is on the tier list, but I am disappointed that he turned out like this. The devs created a really fun mobility power, then added the ability to get hits constantly and inflict deep wound as basekit. I don't know why the devs decided to add the most hated part of Legion's kit to a brand new killer, then amplify it.
We now have a killer that is incredibly fun to play due to his mobility, who also does two thngs that survivors hate, getting an injury with no counterplay for the survivor and inflicting deep wound. I don't know if he needs to be weaker overall, but I think he needs to be less obnoxious to go against.
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Nothing compares to OG Skull Merchant. There was absolutely nothing solo queue survivors could do against her. Without communication, beating a mediocre one was almost impossible by design. Easily the cruelest thing that the devs have ever inflicted on solo players. .
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441867/question-fr
- No one asked for it
- Auto aim (and aim dressing) in this game hurts better players more than it helps
- I'm pretty sure almost everyone here has played an FPS before
Yeah, I don't get threads like this. Pretty much everyone wants a smaller hitbox on his M2. That's both people playing him, and against him. Honestly, I don't even know who OP is talking crap to. Like you said, the players didn't ask for the massive hitbox.
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You asked for his flick to return.
You kind of got what you asked for. Sort of.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905057#Comment_3905057
I mean even if that's gone it would be okay, I even gonna admit that it's really insane what hits you can get - the only thing that has to stay for me to keep him fun is the slide-canceling. Without it he would have the same issues like legion - of course he would be quicker to move around the map, but his power would still be useless in chase as soon as I injured everyone.
If he gets nerfed, it will likely just be his recovery from certain actions. For instance, his ability to vault a pallet into an M1 might be too close to OG Chucky, so he might get more recovery frames after a vault to weaken that a bit. But his ability to traverse the map and injure survivors will stay intact.
Even if he ends up on the weaker end of the killer roster, he'd still have plenty of players due to how fun and skill expressive his power is.
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His core power isn't going to get reworked, so if you enjoy web slinging then you'll be fine even if he gets nerfed. If you like getting hits through walls, then I'd hold off. As that part is unlikely to stay.
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Imagine how many nerfs the killer role would need if solo queue was the only way to play. The average kill rate would be about 90%, and every killer including Miss Piggy would end up having their kneecaps removed lmao.
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Wait, Devil got sent to the shadow realm too? I wonder how many more have gone without me noticing.
RIP gentle soul.
🎉
If the dude who makes the funny art is also dead I'm gonna be disappointed.
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Crap, we lost one of the good ones.
Rest in peace good sir. I did enjoy our occasional exchanges.
🎉
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So they're adding a new variant to the Eyrie of Cows, and removing variants at the same time?
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903208#Comment_3903208
yeah, its the Run of the show for tomorrow's live steam.
Ah nice. I appreciate the info 👍️
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@Emeal said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D6P9171GJFU0/image.png
@TieBreaker You might actually get your wish tomorrow.
Is it a livestream or something?
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@terumisan said:
or just keep going against her till you understand how she works. it's how you get better at the game
That would be great if that seemed to work. But we have a game where Trapper has a balanced kill rate. It's been years, but new players don't seem to figuring out the game fast enough. The devs might as well add more resources to help speed up the process.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441352/vile-end-game-chat-why
Thankfully my son laughed it off but what If he didn't?
Then he'd be like you, unable to understand he's on the internet. Your son is leagues ahead of you in the social sphere of the world. Be happy. He's also playing a game about murdering other people. How mad can you really get about any of this?
Oh come on. You can't talk crap about someone's social skills, whilst failing to understand why they might be pissed off that their child was told to off themselves. It's an incredibly natural response to be angry at something like that.
If you have no feelings about to being told to off yourself, that doesn't mean you are ahead in the social sphere. It means you spend too much time surrounded by garbage people and those kinds of interactions have become normal.
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I want the devs to take controversials ideas and test them out as game modes. Not so they can exist alongside the main mode, but so they can be implemented into the core game. Build modes to test certain questions. What would happen if this game had a mode with the CoD style points system suggested by Choy? What would happen if players had access to five or six perk slots?
I want more things to spice up the regular mode. Things have felt kind of stale for a while now, at least for me.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
the in game demonstration you're asking for is the PTB, this is a non-committal way of portraying an idea without dedicating resources to it.
But most players don't play or even watch the PTB. Every time a killer gets reworked, there are a large amount of players that don't understand the changes. As a result, survivors do poorly and weak killers get high kill rates. The reason I suggested this is because if the average player were more informed, BHVR would have an easier time balancing killers, and we wouldn't end up with killers getting reworked because players can't figure out the counterplay.
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He has strong chase, but absolutely nothing else going for him. That's how he's been balanced by the devs. If they nerfed his bottles, then he'd need an Uber so he could get around to pressure gens better. As his map presence is practically non-existent.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901897#Comment_3901897
thank you so much for adding this in for me! I really appreciate it.
No worries 👍️
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Survivor Bloodpoint Balancing@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901833#Comment_3901833
Survivor Blood Point Rebalancing? Such as the cost of certain items and offerings?
Could you elaborate on the deep wound changes?
- Increased Safe Hook Rescue score event to 1250 (was 500)
- Increased Heal (no Med-Kit) score event to 750 (was 500)
- Increased Heal (Med-Kit) score event to 1000 (was 750)
- Increased Heal (self) score event to 750 (was 300)
- Increased Dull Totem Cleansing score event to 1500 (was 1000)
- Increased chase escape score event to 750 (was 400)
- Increased Repairs score event to 2000 (was 1250)
- Increased Gate Open score event to 2000 (was 1250)
- Increased Chest Unlocked score event to 750 (was 250)
- Increased Killer Grasp Escape score event to 1250 (was 500)
- Increased Obsession Escape score event to 2000 (was 1500)
- Increased Chased score event to 50/s (was 40/s)
- Increased Good Wiggle Skill Check score event to 50 each (was 25)
- Increased Great Wiggle Skill Check score event to 100 each (was 50)
The following score events have been moved to a different category:
- Dropping a pallet now awards Survival points (was Boldness)
- Stunning the Killer now awards Survival points (was Boldness)
- Cleansing a Dull Totem now awards Survival points (was Boldness)
- Cleansing a Hex Totem now awards Survival points (was Boldness)
- Decreased the time it takes to Mend your own Deep Wound to 10 seconds (was 12 seconds)
- Decreased the time it takes to Mend another Survivors' Deep Wound to 6 seconds (was 8 seconds)
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Surrender option, survivor blood point rebalancing, exit gates are visible for twelve seconds instead of seven, deep wound changes, TR changes, scratch mark improvements, and some bug fixes.
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Nobody is going to "beat you up" for using a translation tool. It's just that the translation made it impossible to understand what perk you were talking about. So people were confused.
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I think that completely reworking Skull Merchant at this point isn't really acceptable. Her first incarnation was an abomination, and easily the most miserable thing to play against, but that version of her hasn't existed for a long time now.
Are there really no ideas on how to make her less convoluted to understand, without completely reworking her? Lazer tagging was an interesting mechanic. Something unique to her. Why not put time into making that mechanic better? You can cut the complex parts of her counterplay out, and give her a simple, yet skill expressive power. Something that provides interesting gameplay on both sides.
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Based on how they communicate, I'm guessing you were talking with a kid. No matter what you say, they won't back down. They're too dumb to understand your reasoning, and too stubborn to admit when they are wrong. It's a complete waste of time engaging with idiots like that.
That being said, I'm sorry you encountered a twirp with defective social skills. Hopefully it didn't completely sour your evening.
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@Thesevenspirits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900373#Comment_3900373
Last time I checked, some of these games where rated matured and you had to be 17 and above to play. If a player is immature and can't handle a message then they should not get the game, jeez this is not Minecraft or fortnite
Telling people who get harrassed online that it shouldn't bother them because they're playing a mature game, is so silly. Imagine if your mother played this game, and people started calling her disgusting names. Would you call her a wimp for turning off messaging? Based on how you communicate, I'm like 50/50 on whether you would or not.
The fact you can't understand why a person who chooses to play a horror game, wouldn't be fine with receiving for example, racial abuse or death threats, is very weird. That's not how people behave in the real world.
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It would be amazing if it launched with voice lines. I'd pay money to hear a drag queen viciously sassing survivors. It would be Houndmaster cranked up to a thousand.
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@Thesevenspirits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3900331#Comment_3900331
Never said anything about entitlement. Why are you afraid of receiving messages? Shouldn't you should be playing against bots instead since you want to avoid human interactions?
Heavily online people are terrible to interact with. Most of them are children with absolutely no social skills and explosive tempers. Why would anyone be eager to interact with that?
Being rude and obnoxious doesn't make people afraid of you, they're just annoyed by you, and would rather ignore your existence entirely.
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As fun as it might be to climb out of that well and scare the hell out of everyone, I wouldn't advise going down there. Plus you gotta wait for seven days before climbing back out. That's gonna suck.
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https://youtu.be/NlVmdJutkps?si=UvxLQq4zAxzYI1Gs
I don't we'll ever see a system like this in the game. Would be interesting though.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899674#Comment_3899674
Not even simple and elegant, his power is a speed mult based on his base speed not a flat value added, to make him 110 you also have to adjust his power speed, adjust his 4 of his addons added speed, adjust his lunge speed out of power, and even for fun you have to adjust his meme addon and make sure that any speed increases from the 99 speed bonus perks they want killers to have work properly with it. That would still take a few days to make / adjust / test. Which could be time spent making a better fine tuned change.
unfortunately its not as shrimple as that
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Probably Ghost Face. I'm not great with him, but it's always fun to turbo bag around the map.
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@chickendrumstick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899506#Comment_3899506
Yeah, they will. They did it before and they'll do it again.
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
I find it ridiculously backwards that if the survivors don't do a gen for 10 minutes, the Killer can choose to lose. I really hope someone in the dev team elaborates on the thought process here.
While keeping in mind the fact that it only takes one crow to give noise notifications, shouldn't time be on the Killer's side conceptually? The Survivors need to GTFO, ASAP. That's kind of the point, isn't it? Why give the Killer the option to lose when the Survivors aren't playing the game? 10 minutes is an EXTREMELY long time to be avoiding the Killer, and since it's a Killer loss if they surrender, it's incentivized.
This needs to be looked at. As soon as possible
The reason the killer has to surrender if no gen is completed within ten minutes, is because you could just hold a tight three gen, defend them for ten minutes and win the match. The devs clearly don't want killers doing that, so they won't make it a win conidtion for the killer.
Not only that, but survivors who don't progress the match will be revealed to the killer when that specific part of the roadmap goes live, so survivors won't be able to hide to stall out the match anymore.
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I don't think it's the perks that are the issue. More that due to how interdependent many perks are, it's almost impossible to get a loadout that functions well based on RnG. I think Chaos Shuffle doesn't work well in this game. Instead of getting fresh, new loadouts, you get perks that either don't work well together, or combos like Self Care and No Mither.