TheSubstitute
TheSubstitute
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680585#Comment_3680585
Its not rare its easy. It stutters plenty of times killer is just so easy it doesn't effect anything. 3k is the easiest thing in the world to do.
You keep on doubling down all you like. Just don't expect anyone to take your claims seriously.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680541#Comment_3680541
That's good see I keep telling everyone killer is to easy. Sounds like you're winning a lot of games to me keep it up. Why would I need to buy you equipment is your pc as bad as mine or can you actually use the equipment your talking about? Everything can be doctored over the internet so even if you recorded it I wouldn't believe you only someone who is insecure with their own performance in the game would ask for proof.
I said survivor escapes, not Killer. However, I'm not seriously claiming that and you're saying you have a rare win streak that goes against the experience of many Killer players while none of your posts have ever indicated an understanding of how to play Killer and what the game play is like as Killer.
As well, in a game where a second hesitation can change the trajectory of the entire match, you've gotten this streak using a console or PC that is so bad it can't record anything but somehow has also never sputtered, hesitated or frozen at a crucial moment while playing one of the weakest Killers in the game. Perhaps you have Schrodenger's console?
You're just saying the exact same things everyone else with these amazing win streaks has said who also coincidentally have also not been able to provide any proof of anything. It's the same old, same old.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680528#Comment_3680528
Yours is? Good for you see told you killer was easy.
I'm at a 3,000 solo queue escape streak. No, I can't provide any proof because I don't have the equipment to record it and don't want to use any of the tools available so just take my word for it. Buy me the equipment if you want proof.
See how it sounds?
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680360#Comment_3680360
Well buy me some equipment to record then. Until then don't worry about what I do.
That's been the standard response from everyone who's made less than credible claims about their win streaks.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680355#Comment_3680355
Nobody is unironically claiming that you need to quadruple-count the survivor wins, at least as far as I've seen. It's only the "survivors are worse players" that people have said unironically. That's why I said I didn't care about the reasoning, because I don't think anyone is seriously making that point.
Okay, if you haven't seen it then it's just a misunderstanding on our part.
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@Mr_K said:
Fun for who?
Hopefully both. Killers get passive gen slowdown and survivors get a tactical choice. A lot of games are too fast paced and gen regression and blocking is fun for the Killer but not for the survivors since they can't do anything to counter it or stop it.
If Killers get slower games because of a secondary objective that's helpful and fun for Killers and survivors getting to do something as well is a lot more fun for survivors than just waiting for a gen to unblock or redoing the exact same gen progress you already did because of a gen regression perk.
If you play Killer would you not like something to slow down the game so the gens don't fly super fast? If you play survivor would you rather sit and watch a blocked gen and/or redo what you just did or would you rather actively do something to make the Killer weaker in the endgame?
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@jonifire said:
They should just bring back rank.
While the matches were more lopsided with ranks one of the big pros of ranks is that if you tried to 4 hook 4K you didn't pip up so people were encouraged to play healthier gamestyles than now. That's a nice benefit.
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@Clee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680084#Comment_3680084
I like the build, good for playing injured and pumping gens. I'm always happy to see pallets restored.
Currently my build is Windows, DH, Deja, Vu , Distortion
That's a good build. My most recent was OTR, Deja Vu, Built to Last, Prove Thyself. I bring a Commodious with extra charge add-ons. It's one of my stronger builds (I play several builds) for escape rates. I'd guesstimate 45 to 50% with that build.
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@Bafugaboo said:
I have been doing the 8 hooks and have fun method. I still pip and everyone has fun. It has made the experience completely different.
I do that on certain Killers as well (so as to not mess up MMR on individual Killers). It does show there is an issue though when playing like that is so often more fun than playing as intended.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679872#Comment_3679872
Yea I say the same about klller I'm on a 70 kill streak right now with Freddy using no slow down killer is easier then it has ever been.
If you make a claim like that and don't post video proof it comes across like 'I always 4K on perkless, addonless Clown while I play blindfolded!' levels of credibility.
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@Sandt1985 said:
Ok, i gotta ask, what constitutes a "win" in these win streaks. It seems like its different from person to person
What's a survivor team win, and whats a killer win?
It is different because there is no clearly defined win objective. There are things that will give you pips and there are things that will increase MMR but they can work against each other (eg 4 hooks 4K probably a depip but MMR rises: 8 hooks OK pip up until far into gold or iri but you lose MMR).
It's more like a personal challenge and people define the terms of it differently.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679806#Comment_3679806
That's still not a survivor win streak of 684, though. It's just up to four win streaks of 171. If the 171 is just the number of 3Es, then one or more of them likely didn't reach 171, potentially even none of them.
There's no way to count Blight's streak as 1947 while counting the survivors as 684 that isn't a misinterpretation of statistics.
Either you count the survivors as a group, in which case it's 1947 vs 171, or you count them as 4 1v1s, in which case it's 7788 vs 684.
The 4 win streaks of 171 is my opinion. In my first response I pointed out I didn't agree with it but this was the rationale the people claiming it was 684 were using. The person I responded to didn't seem interested in learning their line of reasoning though and ignored the part where I said I didn't agree with it so I dropped it. If somebody doesn't understand the line of reasoning of another person you can't have a productive conversation but, as I mentioned, the person I responded to wasn't interested in learning about that.
The 1784 v 684 does have a basis for argument (albeit one I already said I don't agree with) but the fact they have a basis shows how weird (my opinion) the MMR system is. It should be measured as a 4v1 and not 4 individual 1v1s in my opinion to be more accurate. Right now, a completely mismatched survivor can carry a team to victory over a new Killer and I don't think that's fun for many survivors or the Killer. I consider myself mediocre at survivor and I even had one match similar to that. It wasn't a fun or engaging experience and I don't imagine it was any more fun for the baby Huntress. However, if you're altruistic you can help get a 3E and that means the system thinks you're a worse player? That's pretty counter intuitive.
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@EmpireCity830 said:
Honestly I think the game today is way too fast. I play killer mostly and even in games where I play well gens are popping left and right or they are about to pop. Therefore I am forced to tunnel to create enough pressure to match the gen pressure survivors put on.
I do think this game is in a very bad state at the moment though. Solo queue is still very unplayable with a couple of games where it is decent. Killer for me at least has been near unplayable. I'm just not enjoying it. Nearly every game for the last 3 weeks i've gotten my ass kicked. Regardless of what killer I play. Some reasons for this I think are: I've gotten worse at the game, my MMR is way too high and survivors in general have gotten better.
Anyone else dealing with this as well? Like their matches are really bad and have been for a while?
I posted this because of what you described so I would say yes.
@TheSubstitute said:
I just came back to survivor after a few months break and it seems pretty gruesome. I'm not talking about the escape rate; that's super low for me (5% so far) but I expected that after a lengthy break but rather the tactics.
In 20 games, there were 12 Killers tunneling and 3 going for a 4 person slug. Prior to my break it was roughly 30 to 40% tunneling and I saw a 4 person slug attempt about once every two weeks with an average of 4 survivor games played per day (so roughly one 4 person slug attempt every 56 games or so).
It's obvious that a game played where hooks matter more than kills is more enjoyable for most players than one played where there are few hooks. Currently, however, the majority of games I've experienced are not played that way.
Granted of course I'm one player and I'm using only 20 games as my sample size but you (BHVR) might want to look into this more to see if this is a common experience. I don't think having the majority of games be hard tunneling and 4 person slugs will be good for player retention (especially new player retention who have very little invested in the game to keep them playing.
Incentivizing hooks over kills would be a better strategy in my opinion. You also might want to consider if your MMR changes are taking fun out of the game. MMR, by definition, encourages the most meta tactics available and by tightening it that encourages more meta. That could be a good thing if the meta is fun but when the most efficient tactic available is something that is very much not enjoyed by the opposing side it's not a good thing. Balance is a tool to acheive fun but it is completely possible to balance the fun right out of a game (eg VHS had an almost perfect 50% win rate for high level play on each side but ignoring how miserable it made one side overall killed the game).
DbD is a good game and you're a pretty responsive dev team but, from my experience, things are not going in the right direction. If my experience is the norm you need to incentivize hooks or do what you need to in order to make it so the game is fun for both sides.
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@Seraphor said:
It would need something to make it worth running with the near certainty that it won't trigger at endgame, something besides just "survivors have to do totems", you can get that and more from Gift of Pain.
I'd suggest: instead of just telling survivors you have it at the start of the game, each completed gen activates NOED for increasing periods of time. 1st gen = 10 seconds, 2nd gen = 15 seconds, 3rd = 20 seconds, 4th = 30 seconds, 5th = 300 seconds.
This way, you get a small window to capitalise on the Exposed effect before endgame, but if you do, you alert survivors to NOEDs presence.
I like your idea; it adds more to tactical decisions for the Killer as well. Deliberately waiting for a longer NOED effect also reminds me of when Otz user Plague's red vomit to down people during a tournament until he had a 5 stack Devour Hope so the survivors were taken totally off-guard.
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@Krazzik said:
With the aura reveal it doesn't need any further nerfs. The only current issue with it is if a survivor gets hooked next to it but you're suggestion doesn't really fix that.
My suggestion said the developers could take out the aura reveal. I do think it fixes the survivor hooked next to it issue as, if survivors know it is in play and choose not to cleanse totems, then that's the survivor's fault.
Right now it's completely RNG as to if a survivor gets hooked next to it. There is no incentive to cleanse totems when you could do gens instead. If the Killer doesn't have NOED it's detrimental to escaping if totems are done. If the survivors know that NOED is in play, don't do totems and then get caught next to a totem that was the chance they took.
If NOED were revealed to be in play at the beginning of the match the choices would be do I do bones (which slows down gens) or do we risk it at the end? There is no clear cut right answer as opposed to now where the optimal choice is to ignore totems and then take out NOED due to the aura reveal.
I'd argue this is a buff as I'd rather have passive slowdown from a secondary objective than get one surprise down at the end of the match before NOED gets cleansed.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679659#Comment_3679659
The win con was a 3 escape, and I was laughing about the "survivors are just worse players" bit
Also, practically speaking nobody treats killer games as a set of individual 1v1's for killer win streaks, why should they do the same for survivor team streaks? Unless you wanna argue the Blight streak in question was actually a 7788 win streak
I'm not arguing with you; I'm explaining to you how the MMR system works and how the people who count it as 4 individual wins have a basis to make that claim.
For Killer win streaks, 3 and 4E is a loss, 2E is a draw and 1E is a loss. That's how the system measures it and why your edited argument is wrong in the context of my post. As it's an asymmetrical game the win conditions are different for each side. From the survivor perspective for MMR there are 4 individual 1v1s and, from the Killer's perspective, there is a singular 1v4.
If you don't understand that you can't talk about the context of the MMR system until you do.
So, the Blight streak was treated as 1,947 contests but the Survivor streak was treated as 684 individual contests. That's how the MMR system works and why the people claiming it was 4 individual wins per escape have a basis to say that.
If you don't like that then you should argue for changes to how MMR works and not argue with a factual explanation of how MMR works.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679757#Comment_3679757
Tbh I never felt like cleansing all the totems to avoid noed was a good use of the survivors’ time anyway and it was usually better to just try to deal with it in endgame. You can only stop noed before endgame if you get all of the totems. I’ve often seen it where survivors get 3 or 4 of them but can’t find the last 1 or 2 that are well hidden, and that’s where noed ends up and they didn’t accomplish much other than getting some extra bloodpoints. And in the process they removed opportunities for boons or for other survivors to use other totem-related perks (ie. Inner Strength).
Additionally I think having noed be known about prior to endgame would make endgame builds a lot less interesting if survivors know they can hard-counter a large portion of it before then (ie. you know the killer has noed but haven’t seen any other perk, you can probably guess what they’re doing).
That's a fair point. I was just thinking of ways to add a secondary objective to the game.
For endgame builds, I never run NOED because I think Terminus has much better synergy with Blood Warden and punishes Killers less (even with glowing aura wall hack you can pretty much tell who has NOED still since they generally struggle in chase. Terminus users seem to do better which implies in the long term it doesn't crutch up their MMR as much. Or at least that's been my experience and having games where you struggle most of the game to only be fed a couple kills at the end due to one perk sounds pretty miserable over the long term).
I'd love a secondary objective for DbD though.
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@Huge_Bush said:
No, Survivors don’t need anymore handholding when it comes to NOED. They should be expected to use their brains and deduce what perks the killer is using and if they don’t bother they should be punished for it.
It’s a Hex perk, high risk/high reward, part of its reward is it being unexpected.
Now, if you wanna make NOED basekit, that’s another story.
Basekit would be interesting as it would provide the secondary objective and game slowdown on every game. The devs would probably need to reduce gen repair times to keep the kill/escape rates where they want though. However, a secondary objective to change up game play more than just nerfing the most used perks would be awesome.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I don’t think noed is a major problem anymore now that the aura reveal exists. The only thing I would want to see changed about it would be the specific scenario where a survivor is hooked near the totem because there’s not really anything the survivors can do about it then. Old noed was extremely unhealthy though.
NOED isn't a problem at all but it would change the survivor being hooked by the totem to being a possible tactical choice of the survivors. Do the survivors stop the perk by giving the Killer passive slowdown by cleansing totems or do they risk that scenario by rushing gens?
The survivors get more control over if it activates and can avoid those scenarios but the Killer gets passive slowdown if it's respected as well.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/408527/would-this-improve-noed
My question is. Why?
There are tons of perks in the game that exist and are really strong until people know about them. The same could be said about coup, or dead man's or perks that give the killer undetectable to go for gen grabs.
Why not just show the killer's whole loadout.
That's kind of apples to oranges. Coup, Dead Man's, etc can't be stopped by survivors and don't provide a secondary objective.
My question had to do with providing a tactical option that let survivors choose to either cleanse totems or try to find NOED without the wall hacks after.
There are no tactical options involved or new dynamics for gameplay if survivors knew the Killer had Pop for example. What would change with Pop? Nothing. What would change with my question about changes to NOED? The game strategy.
That's why your comment is apples to oranges.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679469#Comment_3679469
you joke but I've seen people say this unironically
I'm not saying I agree with the system but that is how BHVR's MMR system measures it. It's not a 4 vs 1 it's 4 separate 1v1s with the Killer just being the one the other 4v are against at the same time.
To be consistent with the system it would be recognized as 684 wins (171 times 4) and, unless the final match was a 4K, any survivor that escaped would still be on their win streak.
The SWF can set whatever conditions they want of course to calling it a win streak but, assuming it wasn't a 4K, a survivor who escaped through the hatch had a draw but if they escaped through the exit gate they won even if the rest of their team died.
If you see a problem with that then you understand why I say a 'Kill Escape' basis for MMR is too simplistic for actual game play. It's also why really good altruistic solos end up with low MMR Killers; they carry their teammates but die at the end after ensuring a 3 out. Their MMR should go up but BHVR's MMR system doesn't recognize that.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679132#Comment_3679132
You know I was just thinking about this while watching a certain nurse win streak steamer Sunday. I wondered if the crazy 500+ streaks would be possible if mmr wasn't so lazy or lax.
I mean the streaks are impressive in their own right I guess, but to me unless I know I'm going up every match against the parallel of my skill a win to me wouldn't count. Meaning for me if I'm facing solo q teams with at least 1 person below 2 k hours the win can't be attributed to the streak ( yes I know that you can't always see hours). So since theres no way of definitively telling who your getting each match the streaks would be invalid anyway.
If I'm at the top of mmr you know that <5% of all players and I only vs other people in my bracket every once while then it's totally possible to attain those super high streaks because it might be a seal team comp squad once every 500 or so matches( could be wrong here didn't watch all the streak matches so they could've faced comp squad way more often). I've never given the streaks much credit due to this fact. I see them as more of a click bait thing and community viewer thing.
I wasn't around for the super strict mmr days, and you're the first that I've seen mention it with regard to these streaks as well.
If MMR weren't so lax then the win streaks wouldn't be possible unless there were huge balancing issues. They're just click bait like you said and anyone who's saying that they mean anything lacks a understanding of the basics of an elo system and data collection. It's a completely uninformed opinion to say they actually mean anything.
When MMR was stricter not only was it not possible to get those super long win streaks but, as an example, Dowsey when he played DbD took 45 minutes to find a match.
Matches also felt miserable at higher MMRs for many players as the focus needed was intense and, for people playing just to have fun, not sustainable. As such BHVR relaxed MMR.
Unfortunately a lot of people don't understand how the system works and blame win streaks on game imbalances when it really shows nothing by and of itself. For example, in chess a 2600 MMR player will beat 99.8% or so of all other chess players. A 2300 MMR player will beat 99.6% of all players but will also lose to the 2600 MMR player over 99% of the time. That's how tight MMR is and yet DbD will put people with up to a 200 point difference against each other regularly. If you're at the soft cap or over it could be up to an 800 or more point difference.
Unfortunately, many people in this thread don't seem to want to take any nuances on this and would rather complain about 'but this side!' instead of admitting they don't have any valid points from winstreaks existing and focusing on issues they do actually have points for and evidence for.
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
LMAO at the difference between killer and survivors streaks.
Nurse is my most played killer and I enjoy Blight but these 2 streaks prove how broken they are if played by the best players - no one should be able to win 1000+ in a row in any game, ever, no matter how good they are
If Mike Tyson in his prime went around fighting 1,000 random high schoolers taking boxing classes would you be surprised if Tyson won 1,000 of those fights?
That's essentially what BHVR's MMR system does with players. I see nothing in these win streak numbers that show anything but DbD has an elo system and loose matchmaking that favours queues over strictness.
Unless it's people at the same MMR competing saying a 2400 MMR player or higher can't get win streaks in the thousands against primarily 1600 to 1900 MMR players is showing a lack of understanding of how the elo system works. BHVR won't tighten up the MMR since if a 2400 MMR player were to go only against a 2400 MMR player they might not ever get a match.
Instead of recognizing this I just see a lot of us vs them in this thread. Win streaks by people above BHVR's soft cap mean nothing and are statistically the expected result of how BHVR's MMR system is set up.
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It gives me some sacrifice BP but not very much chase BP.
Oh, I'm sorry. You meant giving the survivor BP. Yeah no, it's just a way for the survivor to throw the game.
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No tengo ni una idea pero aquí casi toda la gente se habla puro íngles. Problamente tendrás más exito con el foro de español.
Aquí está la enlace
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/categories/spanish-discussions
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677852#Comment_3677852
Nope, this is just the same gaslighting as comments like 'why you getting mad at me repeatedly pressing a (CTRL) key bro?'
Or 'it was just a friendly teabag, wasn't meant as BM' when it clearly was.
In my 4k hours since Jan 2019 I have played a lot of killer even if I am a survivor main myself and I have versed many a 6 second switching lobby and not one of them was a pleasant experience.
If you start off our initially neutral interaction with deception/BM, then YOU have set the tone of our future interactions and you cannot complain about that. You already destroyed any benefit of the doubt we started out with
I don't take switching as BM. I do take teabagging at pallets as BM but I've quite often been checking challenges and, if I've missed something such as a medkit, toolbox or flashlight for a challenge, I'll switch up.
Unless it's a group of 4 that switches to flashlights at the last second I just assume it's something like that.
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You angered the Bubba. Well the Billy in this case but same principle.
I included a video that has six helpful tips to avoid this. It's older now but still applies to your match.
https://youtu.be/n18RuMRmTvc?si=QtEJ6gl-eJjDE6WOYou broke nearly all of these rules. Silly Claire.
This video will help explain why all these things happen. Enjoy.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
The depth people get into this baffles me. People can set their own win/loss conditions, but they're just personal conditions. BHVR has their method. It sucks, but its there. I honestly wish they would change it, evolve the game a bit, and see how many problems melt away.
I truly feel their 'Kills vs escapes' system is what most of the issues players complain about arises from. Might be weird, but I think it would even fix tunneling lol.
I agree because it's too simplistic and people did have other 'win' conditions that didn't lead to tunneling and camping. As an example, when BBQ tied its BP bonus to hooking each survivors once some Killers felt their personal win condition was hooking each survivor at least once. The Killer might see a 4E but still felt like they won because they fulfilled their personal win condition.
That created less tunneling and camping because their goal was different than get a 4K by whatever means. It wasn't by any means the majority of Killers but it was enough that there was less tunneling than now.
Incentives will modify behaviour.
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The issue isn't that one side has perks that are worse than the other's. Both sides have enough decent perks to fill a load out.
The issue is that both sides have a lot of perks that are useless for either meming or winning a game. A lot of perks need changes to make them better and/or more fun.
It's why I've quite often posted against over nerfs to both Survivor and Killer perks. Neither side needs perks that they just scroll through but would never actually equip outside of Adept and Tome challenges.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676614#Comment_3676614
Well I suppose my point really is that trying to compare these perks is a fruitless endeavour.
- You compare Deja Vu to Pain Res in terms of time saved, Deja Vu looks incredibly weak.
- You compare Lithe to Pain Res in terms of time saved, Pain Res looks pretty damned weak.
We know that isn't true, but mathematically we have to drastically simplify the equation to try and establish any objective truth, to the point that it almost becomes pointless to argue.
I would argue that the top 10 perks for survivor are just as good as the top 10 perks for killer. Every 10 seconds you buy as survivor multiplies in value to anywhere between 1 and 3 times, depending on what your team is doing, because that time you saved doesn't just affect your time, it affects your whole team.
E.g. that 25s that Pain Res gets back for the killer on 1 gen is dwarfed by the combined progress made on the 2 other gens by however long that chase smd hook took.
Deja Vu also has an additional value that can’t be quantified as it shows the closest three gens every time a gen is completed. That's very valuable info. So, to just bolster your argument, it makes it even harder to compare Pain Res to Deja Vu as having a spread out final 3 gens makes escaping that much more likely. That can’t be measured in time saved.
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To those questioning the seriousness of this and whether action should be taken I have a different perspective. Transsexuals are the people who have the most experience with this and we should trust their judgment. There have already been people using throwaway accounts to mock and insult trans people in this thread and the only reason the bigots aren't seen more is because the mods removed them quickly (as in under five minutes so it was kind of a blink and you'd miss it). That alone should speak to the hate that transsexuals unfortunately have to deal with and people should acknowledge their experiences.
If you're in a minority group and you're not taking what was stated as a serious concern then you would be doing what was most likely done to you at one point when you voice a concern and somebody says 'I don't see that', or 'maybe you should have done this instead', or 'you're overreacting' etc.
If you belong to just majority groups and you don't take this seriously then you should consider that nobody can speak to what somebody else experienced so it's better to listen and acknowledge their experience is different from yours.
I'm just mentioning this because I see some posts implying or stating 'well maybe that wasn't what happened' but I think the people who do experience hateful and bigoted comments are much better suited to say what actually did happen than anyone else as they were the ones to experience it.
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@xEa said:
Lovely, heartwarming playerbase....
It's more the asymmetrical playerbase as a whole. It doesn't matter if the player is black, white, Asian, etc a character being black is enough for the racists to let their hate out. There was even a thread in the reddit for TCM where someone posted that people using racial slurs should be banned but some people were actually disagreeing and saying people should toughen up, it's just a video game, etc and all the other bs arguments used when people talk about in-game harassment and attacks. Gun stated quite definitively that racial slurs have no place in their game but how do you prove a racial slur with voice chat and no recording?
It's horrible that the Unknown is being used like this. It also higlights the stupidity of the transphobes as the Unknown is genderless and may not even have the capacity to understand gender in lore.
I don't think BHVR saw this happening at all because people tend to assume people think like they themselves do so but unfortunately it did happen.
The best thing to do is to just outright lifetime ban anyone being transphobic, homophobic or bigoted. That's why I wish the reporting system would be improved so it's easier to get players like that banned. Dbd as a whole would be greatly improved if transphobes and racists were just shunted out of the entire community instead of removing cosmetics. Get rid of the problem instead of brushing it under a carpet so nobody sees it.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662910#Comment_3662910
Yeah, it is. And the friends I meet in other games are like “I’ve heard of that game, I’m good lol.” It’s tough to get new people into it and even harder to convince them to stay (as survivor at least. Dunno about killer)
I've tried to get people to play Killer but they don't want to put up with the harassment and BMing. So I've tried both ways (Killer and Survivor) and neither has worked. DbD is not really new player friendly.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671597#Comment_3671597
Which is still a draw according to the game…
It's seen as a draw from the Killer side but it's seen as two wins and two losses from the Survivor side. The only draw condition is Hatch for survivors.
I'm not arguing that's how it should be but the developers view it as 4 individual 1v1s for the survivors and a 4v1 for the Killer. That's how their MMR system is coded so if you try to make sense of it from viewing the survivors as a team nothing will make sense since you'll be viewing the rates from a different point of view than the devs.
It leads to weird outcomes such as although a tunneling Killer will often hurt themselves by raising their MMR to a level that they can't compete in an aggressive Survivor who can run the Killer for three or four gens will effectively carry their team but die and thus lower their MMR to go against less skilled Killers?
That last point was a side tangent but if you do want to make sense of it from the devs' point of view the devs don't look at survivor as a team effort. If you want to make it out of low MMR it 100% is until at least the gens are powered but that's not how it's viewed.
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@katoptris said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670630#Comment_3670630
Didn't realize we can emote as killer in this game.
It could be humping. That doesn't require an emote.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671194#Comment_3671194
If someone manages to lose on gideon against an m1 killer like pig I would seriously think they are trolling or probably bought the game yesterday.
That's more of a reference to the movie than a gameplay reference.
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When I have a pallet challenge I play Gideon as Hillbilly with Lo Pro Chains, Enduring, Spirit Fury, Hubris and Hex: Two Can Play.
Unless I'm BMed I normally just complete my challenge in one match and let the survivors go as it's so easy in Gideon with that. That build being possible is definitely one of the multiple reasons you should be apprehensive as a survivor in Gideon until you figure out what you're facing.
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I occasionally run Low Profile, Unbreakable and Distortion for this. That's not a solution of course. A real solution would be a bleed out option if all survivors are slugged but we'll have to wait for that.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671083#Comment_3671083
The problem is here, maybe they don't like to play killer and they don't wanna use money / shards for killers.
True and that leads to scenarios like you described in your OP where the bot played with more intelligence than the human they replaced. But it is a solution if anyone is having issues and the likelihood of BHVR putting out a detailed tutorial against every Killer is rather small.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671083#Comment_3671083
Unless you’re me, who liked to play Trappi Boi and still managed to attract every trap on the map, thinking I was being smart and careful.
I've had that feeling with Trapper before as well.
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Playing both sides really helps. Encouraging that may be a more feasible solution than BHVR creating tutorials. If someone is having problems against a Killer playing that Killer does wonders for their counterplay.
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Win streaks is what would be expected with an MMR system and how loose BHVR's matchmaking is. It's math; there are no surprises here and win streaks by themselves prove nothing except that BHVR uses MMR and the matchmaking favours queue times over strict matchmaking.
If you don't expect win streaks from how BHVR has its system set up you're not understanding how the probabilities involved work.
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I don't think it will be it worth it even after the buff. It's too much time versus only five gens are needed to escape; not seven so those two gens affected don't provide a benefit.
Being Broken is a super hefty downside so not only is there a time loss but there's also the time the Killer gains when downing you as instead of being in chase because it's harder to escape while Broken.
And, if you get caught, you're in the most dangerous spot to be hooked.
If I were to break a 3 gen Potential Energy seems a lot more useful.
Against Plague and Legion it would be more useful as I'll be down a health state most of the match anyway but since you have no idea who you're going to get that's not a bet to really take. On the other hand, if you get Trapper you're completely shafted and a Bubba or Huntress who proxy camps you means you're probably shafted as well.
On the other hand, if I'm playing Dredge with Darkness Revealed (or any Killer with Darkness Revealed) please feel free to ignore everything I wrote and try it. Just please don't do it if I'm playing survivor.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/407321/survivors-need-to-improve-and-get-better
Too many survivors complain that the game is unfair but they don't work to improve their game
The idea that these complaints come from the same people that barely know the game is flat wrong. As a quick reminder, the lowest escape rate is actually at the highest MMR. The game is the most killer-sided at the higher MMR ranges. These complaints aren't coming from bad survivors that sit in a corner and do nothing all game.
Main issue I see with survivors is they are not proactive with gens. They consistently go for easy far-off gens and 3-gen the team. Survivors have got to start learning the maps and being proactive about identifying and pressuring 3-gen locations early in the match, or in the event that there is a 3-gen, proactively identifying and helping the team to pressure different gens and force the killer to have to patrol all 3 gens. There are perks available to help out with this so "I don't know where the gens are" is not an excuse. Running around doing gens blindly is not doing you or the team any favors and in most cases you are handing the game over to the killer.
I don't know why you are bringing this up. No one complained about survivors creating their own 3-gens, except for killers. The 3-gen complaints had nothing to do with survivors 3-genning themselves, but with certain killers (Specifically Knight and Skull Merchant) permanently locking down the three gens closest to one another from the start in order to force a 3-gen. The wrong killer design, as proven by several showcases, can blast this issue into the stratosphere to the point where the most favoured tactic for Skull Merchant was getting the match to time out.
This is not okay. This is extremely obviously not okay. But it also has nothing to do with what you are talking about.
This brings up the second issue: Many survivors don't pressure 3-gen locations because they want to hide and are afraid to loop a killer. Survivors have to learn that each player in the team has to take their turn wasting the killer's time, and in addition survivors need to be taking hook states during the game, everyone needs to do this. No one is expecting you to take the killer for a 5-gen chase or 360-tech like a looping god but be proactive and learn to use tiles to your advantage, there are myriad youtube tutorials on the types of tiles and how to use them effectively as well as aura reading perks and items to help you see the killer while looping and evading. Time wasting perks like head-on, blast mine and others are also at your disposal.
Again, this is not being complained about, except by killers. This is argumentation killers bring up to try and get Distortion nerfed, not survivors.
Third, Too many survivors complain about being tunneled out too often, but aside from learning to use tiles better and improving your map sense and knowledge, are you also running any anti-tunnel perks? do you also take protection hits for your teammates or do you use perks or items to deny the killer hooks when they are being tunneled or do you hide in a corner?
Band-aid perks are never the solution to overarching problems with gameplay design, and they take away from depth of gameplay by crippling non-meta builds. Survivors shouldn't have to equip band-aid perks and sacrifice their loadout variety in order to resolve an issue that should naturally not exist. Additionally, while taking protection hits for your teammates may improve the tunnelled player's experience somewhat, it's also much more likely to give the killer the win by rewarding them with free pressure and slowdown.
Yes, it's true that hook denial is a way to slow down a tunnel, but that firstly requires a ton of coordination which makes for a deeply unfair effort balance between the survivors and killer (Which may be why high MMR 4-man squads have the highest escape rate, though still not hitting 50%), but secondly, this also encourages what is honestly the worst gameplay experience for killer. Often referred to as 'bully squads'.
Survivor complaints, by and large, have also not been about balance as much as they have been about quality of gameplay. You can improve as much as you want, getting tunnelled still means that you'll be kicked out of the match with roughly 8K points and a depip because you only got one fragment of survivor gameplay. And the rest of your teammates got to experience the joy of M1 and nothing else. Camping is much the same. Bleedout slugging is much the same.
The biggest thing survivors are asking for, is for the game to focus more on breadth of gameplay instead of constantly being flattened to a 1v1 with three spectators.
If survivors were truly concerned with the game's balance, we'd have seen far, far more clamouring for survivor buffs/killer nerfs with the release of the latest stats that just flatly prove that the game is killer-sided at the moment. But by and large, the survivors didn't care about the balance.
They just want the gameplay to be addressed.
So I don't see what the point of this thread is, other than to gaslight people into thinking that any survivor complaint must come from lead-ELO, sub-10 hour Blendettes.
That's a very succinct and well thought out response. I'm not adding anything; I'm just giving a compliment as everything you said was completely true and well spoken.
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Some solutions that were previously offered in different threads were (in summary)
A) Provide a repair speed debuff for each living survivor that is replaced by a repair speed buff for every dead survivor. Tweak the numbers so that the best way (or at least equal to tunneling way) to get a 4K is to get as many survivors on death hook as possible and then start killing. Also, this slows down the early game so that two or three gens aren't lost in the first two minutes and also makes it so that it's not an automatic win for the Killer if a survivor is lost while there are more than 2 gens left up.; or
B) Have the survivors share hook states so nobody dies until there have been 9 hooks. This keeps the tunneled survivor in the game for longer and may give more motivation to the player's teammates to help save them; or
C) Base MMR off of hooks where 0 to 4 hooks means MMR goes down, 5 to 8 hooks means it stays the same, and 9 to 12 hooks is an MMR increase. Kills only is really simplistic and adds to the desire to tunnel so people can feel they're higher MMR. If MMR were also visible it would add to psychological pressure to spread hooks as many people would want to brag about their MMR and they couldn't if it went down because they tunneled. As well, content creators couldn't be 'I'm top MMR!' unless they could show it. I do think that's why there were more hooks spread around in the Emblem days as you needed multiple hooks to increase, matches were lopsided more often (the con being they were less fair, the pro being off meta builds and tactics were more viable), and people could show they were Rank One.
There are potential solutions out there. I think BHVR should test something to see if it would work as it is a major issue for player enjoyment.
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Before the generators are done yes. The bot can distract the Killer.
If the bot ends up on a hook after the generators are done the bot has successfully distracted the Killer. Mission accomplished; I'm out. Enjoy the BP from the bot Killer and I'll enjoy my escaping BP; win win for both sides.
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Your kill or escape rate over several months should be able to give you an indication. If we look at WoW arenas which also use MMR (all elo systems are similar) roughly one third of all participants are ranked at 1600+ or above (the previous soft cap for DbD). If only 5% of the playerbase is high MMR then we're most likely looking at 2000 to 2100 MMR.
If you're consistently winning over 80% to 90% of your matches then your MMR should be pretty high. Whether or not that puts you at the softcap that it is now is debatable because if the softcap is 2000 or higher you'll probably need about a 95 to 98% win rate to win there.
However, if they're throwing in 1600 MMR against 2000+ rated MMR BHVR is throwing the 1600s to the wolves as there's only a fraction of a percent chance the 1600s would win.
To get back to the point though if you're winning a significant amount more than the average you're at a higher MMR than the average and, if BHVR is throwing 1600s into a meat grinder by putting them against 2200s, it's very possible for one third of players to be facing high MMR opponents while they themselves are not high MMR. That's why I'm hoping the soft cap is at least 1900+ because if you have an idea how much 200 points difference in MMR can make in odds of winning from any MMR system that does have visible data you'd realize how much that would be just throwing players to the wolves.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666992#Comment_3666992
You're right, we should only consider the balancing rammifications of if the players use new features mega casually instead of competitively like the playerbase does with every other aspect of the game. /s
I understand the idea to mimic some of the fun that F13 had with its voice comms, but that's absolutely not how they would be used in DBD.
Exactly. The issue is how would voice comms actually be used? The abusive and toxic messages sent in end game chat or through console services helps show exactly how voice comms would be used and it wouldn't be in a way that increases fun.
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I think Sable's perks are BHVR'S new attempt to buff Trapper's kill rates.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666679#Comment_3666679
So let me get this right... Your personal experience is exactly accurate and randomly describing the truth about the community, and that is that those people are all racists and immature impolite brats that do nothing but spout nonsense? ^^ Seems hardly believable my man... What is more likely... That the villainous scum of the earth all play asymmetrical horror games for some reason or that you got really unlucky with your teammates or ended up in some bracket where only such people get matched with you.
Why exactly is a mute function not good enough? If you can just filter out those people you will be completely fine and if you don't want to use it altogether you can just disable it, so those people who want to use it and or have better luck with their teammates can still use it? I think not only a few would use and also it would a nice way to bridge the gap between solo and swf... So saying if you want voice chat go swf is exactly the issue why people complain about swf... They have more information that solo does not have...
I think there are plenty of reasons to implement such a function, close the gap between solo and swf is one of them, therefore be able to balance around players having that kind of information is the next one, because otherwise you would have two groups of players, those who do and those who don't have these informations and that can bring forth issues where certain mechanics disproportionately affect one of those two groups. And I think those are quite good reasons in favor of such a function ^^
Because my experience is mirrored by multiple other people who report the same. What's stopping you from getting you into a group and using voice chat among yourselves? You dismiss the experiences of all the people who you can see by just googling tcm chat, you dismiss my personal experience and yet nobody is calling your fps experiences with it into doubt. However, you don't return the same consideration.
It's not worth continuing this back and forth as you're too obstinate to extend the same consideration to others that is extended to you. As such, please don't tag me anymore as I'm not going to respond any further as you're not bringing any worthwhile points. Repeating 'I don't want to believe you' over and over while there are other people who corroborate my story (once again, do a Google search and read what other people have read) is pointless to continue in a conversation so I'm not. Have a good day.