TheSubstitute
TheSubstitute
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592417#Comment_3592417
How is what I said an us vs them when it's the average experience of players. I didnt say anything about us vs them lol nice try rewriting narratives
Reread your first post. You literally stated something that was biased and objectively untrue.
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592408#Comment_3592408
Projection sounds like a well learned skill of yours
I'm not the one doing an inaccurate us versus them. It's okay; people make mistakes.
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591455#Comment_3591455
Descriptions don't take away from actual game experiences. I do not play with any of the 1% of killers you're describing since it's not exactly a common thread for killers to let survivors go. Also I don't believe that all these posts just consistently let survivors go and are probably just saying the one time tht did as if they do it all the time. Don't get smart with me
You're mistaken; that's all. No harm in admitting it.
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Revert DS to 5 seconds. Make it active on both hooks. But also:
Remove collision on survivors with endurance so they can't body block.
Put Ruin back to 200% but keep the deactivate when a survivor dies.
Put CoB and Overcharge back to 200% but make it so gen regression doesn't stack so the maximum regression rate is 200%.
Then monitor kill rates and buff or nerf as needed to keep the 60% target.
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Here are the big ones for me (the precondition is no obnoxious teabagging. If you teabag at pallets, etc you can die)
-Memers get VIP treatment. As an example, you set up bar in Dead Dawg or run the store in AutoHaven, well, a serial killer has got to have a drink and some snacks to pass the time
-The survivor asks for it. You stop, face me, and crouch respectfully and, hey, I don't know if you've had a bad day or need an acheivement but we're all just players. I'll help you out.
-A bunch of double BP items were played in lobby.
-A survivor plays RPD. I loathed my experience getting Outbreak Breakout and I'm assuming you played it for the acheivement. It's farm time instead and you open the gates; I won't touch them.
-You're the last survivor left alive and never BMed. Take your pick of hatch or, if there is 1 gen left, getting your Left For Dead acheivement.
-Someone teabagged me early at a pallet and I hard tunneled them out for it. I normally just farm with the non-BMing survivors after.
-I quite often slug for pressure and your teammate was willing to let you bleed out to try for hatch. You get picked up and get to wiggle off while I then kill your teammate. Same thing for sandbaggers. You try to get your teammates killed; I kill you and your teammates get to farm.
-It's a meme game for me. For example, I quite often meme with jumpscare Mikey on an indoor map or put on the winter skins and meme around with Trapper during the holidays (and with icy Ghostface for when we can jump into snowmen as well). I have Killers I meme with and Killers I kill with and try to not mix them.
A game's supposed to be fun and I don't find being really competitive to be relaxing hence my list above.
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@coco_shotz said:
You are possibly the only killer on this forum who actually has the mentality of letting survivors go at any point for any reason. Most killers just resort to tunneling at 5 gens and being as annoying as possible in making sure nobody gets away
Says this. Over a dozen people then describe how they let survivors go.
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@jesterkind said:
I'll admit to not having tried it before, but Corrupt Intervention on Trapper seems counter-intuitive to me.
If people are running away from where they spawned, they're more likely to run into you while you're setting up, and if they manage to get any gen progress it means the untouched gens are the ones explicitly as far away from your setup as possible.
Maybe I'm missing something with that, though.
Basically you're using Corrupt to set up the area you want to defend. You can either set up traps in the non-blocked gens or in the blocked gens depending on the gen layout.
If you go for the non-blocked gens then somebody will disarm your traps but if you run Iri stone the traps will reset themselves but the survivors often won't realize that since you probably won't be anywhere near the trap when it resets.
I generally use Corrupt to set up traps in the blocked area as it's tight for time but you can get a good web set up before Corrupt ends and I then defend that area. I use Deadlock just in case my target area is a mix of blocked and unblocked gens so my target area remains defensible.
Without Corrupt I've found that I'll quite often be down to 1 gen left for the survivors to finish before I finish setting up my web.
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Yes. Set-up time is better now but both are still needed.
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I don't tunnel or camp unless I get teabagged at a pallet. In those cases, I normally take out the teabagger and let the others farm.
Occasionally, but rarely, a group that escapes will teabag at the gates or talk trash in chat. However, if they mean it maliciously (the teabags at gates which occasionally the survivor doesn't mean maliciously; trash talk in chat is always malicious) and they're not bright enough to figure out that I deliberately spread hooks around before killing someone, they're not bright enough for me to pay any attention to.
I don't know if that helps you or not. Personally, I feel if they're not good enough at the game to see when somebody is trying to make the match last longer or they're terrible enough people they want their opponents to feel bad they don't warrant any attention.
If you do want to tunnel and camp, though, do it. I don't mind that as survivor because if my team won't bodyblock or hook trade we don't deserve to win.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3576975#Comment_3576975
It was good decision that they nerfed Eruption and I wasn't crying about it.
Grim Embrace and Hex Perks are trash if you want to play for win.
Overcharge & Call Of Brine shouldn't come back at 200% speed even without stacking.
They can buff both perks to 150% Regression Speed, but I wouldn't touch these perks. For me these perks are not very healthy, because Im not lazy Killer Main. I want to do something to get a value from my perks. That's why I use Pop & Pain Res mostly.
Don't forget - it's 16 perks vs 4 perks (I don't even count items) and single Survivor perk can be stronger than single Killer perk.
Good examples are Sprint Burst & Adrenaline. These perks are extremely strong - I don't find any Killer perk that can be compared to these perks with strenght. My honest opinion.
For me 3% speed from MFT shouldn't be a thing - never. If someone thinks 3% is "balanced" he is just Survivor Main and wants to abuse it so hard or he just don't understand the game.
My post wasn't saying 3% Haste is balanced; my post was saying the current proposal is too harsh and we need perks that are fun or effective and preferably both. If you're in disagreement with me then it should be against my points and post and not a point I didn't argue
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@ays12151 said:
Most of players just don't understand how free 3% speed powerful is... This type of boost needs really heavy requirement and Deep Wound is good enough. Still only Endurance Effect makes it Perk better than 70% of Killer Perks KEKW
All the Killer aura reading perks are good if you're good at chase. With the exception of Grim Embrace which has only pretty niche uses all of the blocking perks are pretty good. Pain Resonance and Floods of Rage are good (once again if you can take advantage of the situation) and Gift of Pain has some decent situational uses.
Gen regression perks overall suck (I think CoB and Overcharge should just go back to 200% and not be stackable) and Hex perks are mostly garbage (with the exception of Devour Hope and the Plaything Pentimento combo). At the very least getting a 5 stack of Pentimento is fun.
Killers do have a lot of good perks although quite a few are garbage. Do you think that the garbage perks should just remain garbage because Killers do have strong perks? If not, you can't argue the same for Survivor perks without being hypocritical.
Or are you arguing that the Endurance effect for MfT and a condition that isn't proccable by a Survivor makes it a 'good' perk? We've only seen it on paper but it sounds pretty terrible. I think you're being biased and I have a strong suspicion that if it were a Killer perk getting this treatment (like Eruption's original proposal) your reaction would be completely different.
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Did you seriously say killer perks never get nerfed? Did you start playing last week? There's a lot of trash perks I just scroll past on the Killer side too.
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Definitely over-nerfed. I like @Rudjohns suggestion in this thread for a potential change instead (but for dead survivors only instead). With the current proposal, it won't come into play most of the time and it isn't a potentially game changing effect that doesn't happen all the time but is amazing when it does that would justify running it (eg Unbreakable).
A rework to something that didn't have haste would have been better than this and avoided all of the issues that come with speed changes. Right now it won't be a fun but largely ineffective perk you can play for memes (eg Blast Mine, Head On) and it won't be an effective perk after either (other examples I've already stated are Ruin, Call of Brine, and the original proposed change for Eruption).
DbD doesn't need more perks that just take up space. A perk should be a combination of fun or effective or preferably both. Right now, the proposal is neither.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575580#Comment_3575580
man really said boons are strong perks lol
Exactly. And they totally missed my point about how I said we don't need more useless perks and mentioned Ruin and CoB in the same sentence where I mentioned they went into the scrap heap.
I don't want a perk to be just be taking up space for people to flip through until they get to something worth considering equipping.
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I favour playing Artist, Thalia, Trapper and Vittorio.
Artist is fun and she's South American as is Thalia.
There's no sound in DbD more satisfying than that of an overconfident, BMing survivor running straight into the strong loop you trapped at the beginning of the game.
Vittorio has been around since the 14th century and studies the Entity. He's just cool.
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@scorpio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568410#Comment_3568410
No, it wouldn't. Survivors just do nothing for 60 seconds so even if you downed and hooked someone else, even two other people, they'd still have it and hit you with it. Someone else being hooked should deactivate it, period.
Why do you consider survivors not doing anything for 60 seconds a bad thing? I'll gladly take a DS stun if it means the survivor stays off gens, doesn't heal others and doesn't cleanse totems for 60 seconds. They're throwing the game to the Killer's side if they do it.
Not directed at you but for the general thread I find the survivor role displays more toxicity when playing Killer than what I encounter from the Killer role when playing survivor. If we're going to discuss toxicity then we have to mention that since toxicity breeds toxicity.
I'm not excusing toxicity from either role but if survivors that bullied and BMed less experienced Killers were called out for it more that would have a positive effect. Or, better yet, people should just stop gloating after winning. Take the win and move on without BMing.
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I'd add a requirement that every player has to spend at least a few games on both sides so players could understand what the other side is like. My aim would be to decrease toxicity and increase empathy (or, at least, recognize there is another human being playing the other side in a match).
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@CountOfTheFog said:
How do you defeat the perk?
A) Don't cleanse Plaything as it's nearly always run with Pentimiento
B) Remember where you cleansed the last totem and go back there to recleanse Pentimento (so 2 cleanses per hex)
I use B with Devour Hope. Normally I just don't cleanse Plaything until the gens are nearly all done but remember where it is for when my teammates cleanse it.
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If my teammates can't make it before I get sacrificed and the Killer is nowhere nearby I'll let go. I'm not getting rescued and I'm not wasting the Killer's time thereby giving my team more time to escape.
If there's no point, I'll give up. Before bots were introduced to handle DCs I hated it when people DCed. Now I don't care because bots will focus on objectives and get chased better than many players so, depending on who left, getting a bot replacement doesn't hurt the match anywhere near as much when it was a 3v1 after.
As well, I'll have to admit I prefer having a bot over someone who's just trolling the Killer as my chance to escape is often better with the bot.
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I have to drop roughly three survivors for every hook. Then they're too busy picking each other up to flashlight me. It's not easy and you're looking at a long game since they'll probably have Unbreakable.
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Good luck; I'm too introverted with too whacky of a schedule to do that but I think it's the better way to go.
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If you're not trying to kill the Survivors then BP. If you don't care that much about BP or killing the survivors then nothing really. From how I'm reading your playstyle you don't really need to use hooks; hooks are only if you want to win (defined as a 3K+) and get BP.
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Almost. I always run OTR unless an acheivement or tome challenge means I can't but, other than that, I nearly always run a theme for the other three.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3561746#Comment_3561746
I have probably more hours on Killer alone than many other players in total. And while I would not consider myself good (I think I verse better Killers than I am myself), I win more than I lose, which would mean that my MMR should be at least above average. So saying that I dont play Killer is quite wrong.
And when it comes to mistakes - you never see people writing here that they made mistakes. They lose the game because of Perks, Maps, whatever. But this goes for both sides, the DBD-Community as a whole is unable to think "Hm... Maybe I did not play THAT well".
The second paragraph isn't really limited to DbD though. You're correct but it's more endemic to the PvP gaming community as a whole unfortunately.
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Try for 12 hooks and don't camp. That's the simplest explanation.
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The best thing for gens is to learn the gen layout and then do gens strategically to lengthen the time needed for Killers to patrol them. Survivors three gen themselves more often than Killers intentionally three gem Survivors. If you're not sure which gens to do first equip Deja Vu.
If you just leave them (albeit with the cavaet that sometimes it is a good idea to leave a gen partially done; @Akumakaji mentioned a great scenario above) then the Killer can undo tons of progress. Getting things done quickly is in the best interests of the survivors as the survivors have limited resources that run out (ie items, pallets, hook states) while Killers don't run out of resources (Myers sucking all Evil Within juice notwithstanding).
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3560868#Comment_3560868
Takes more effort to get a team together to go on a win streak. All a Blight main has to do is get on put one of its busted add ons on and win, also why make this about survivors Blight is busted end of discussion.
You can't say that it's okay for SWFs to get huge win streaks because it takes effort and then say it's not okay for Blight mains to get huge win streaks even though it takes effort. An activity is either okay for everyone or not okay for anyone if it's to be fair. If it's okay for the top tier SWFs to have huge win streaks it's also okay for the top tier Killers to have huge won streaks. Anything else is hypocritical.
Edit: I'll also throw this in here. DbD is a video game and not a spectator sport. The health of the game is not determined by the players who are outliers; it's determined by if the majority of the player base is happy and having fun. Outside of the outliers Blight has statistically normal results. Any changes to be made shouldn't affect the majority of players as balance is a tool for achieving fun. There's no point to implementing balance changes if it means nobody wants to play after since it's not fun (VHS was a good example of this).
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A lot of survivor perks are really underrated. There's a difference between 'not viable' and 'suboptimal for my preferred playstyle'. I like basing perk builds around one of the perks a survivor starts with and I've gotten some surprisingly fun and effective builds from that.
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If a Nurse has a fully charged blink on a second story map and you run straight up to her how does the Nurse get a hit? Correct answers only; go!
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3 genning is a normal and expected part of playing; for many Killers having to eventually resort to a 3 gen is last ditch option when the gens fly too fast. Any trap based Killer has to set up a web of traps in a smallish area to win unless they completely outclassed the survivors. 3 genning itself is not an issue.
What is an issue is when a Killer or perk (eg. pre-update Skull Merchant, Eruption before its most recent change with all gen regression perks, etc) is so good at it that their opponents have almost no chance to win because of overpowering game mechanics.
That said I don't see Hux being op at three -genning. If a Hux starts only trying to defend a three gen they won't be able to keep it because Hux doesn't have the power to do so unless the Hux outclasses the survivors. EMPs make it not possible. My opinion is that any influx of 3 genning Huxs will fade away over time since Hux isn't very good at it.
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I was lucky and got some teabaggers on my second try to get it. They definitely made getting the acheivement easier.
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Do that for Tombstone Mikey as well. He can't one shot kill you if you're in a locker.
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I've done that. The toxic survivor(s) didn't listen or tried to justify their toxicity but I hope it helped the Killer resist the 'us vs them' mentality and made the Killer feel better.
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Crouching multiple times quickly gives you a special form of Exhaustion that also blocks exit gates. We'll call the status 'Dontbeajerktion'
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557889#Comment_3557889
Yes.
Its not a win perk.
Its a learn perk, as I see it.
The basic math behind why its bad is pretty clear.
It can definitely be used for learning and there are situations where it is useful. It's just one of the obstacles people face is that some of the newer survivors don't realize if they don't cooperate to get the gates open nobody is getting out and, no matter your MMR, you will eventually get matched with a newer survivor unless you 4 person SWF. That, along with Self Care being on a base survivor means that the survivor who throws the match to self-heal behind a rock will stand out more than the person who Self-Cared at end game to unhook you and got both of you out the exit gates. People remember the bad experiences more than the good ones so that plays a factor too.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557868#Comment_3557868
I'm going to regret asking this...
Why is self care a problem?
If you play solo. You already know its likely one of your friends will not be on the escape objective.
If you take a hit and drop chase by taking a strong loop, you can go to a dead zone alone and recover to practice the whole thing over, against most killers.
More chances to run loops and memorize the map. I don't see why self care is an issue, when you're single player focused.
Yes, I see it takes longer to heal yourself vs having a team mate do so, but often when playing alone that isn't going to happen.
It's better many times to prioritize doing gens over getting healed. Self-care quite often encourages healing yourself over doing gens even when it would be better to just finish the gen.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556955#Comment_3556955
I don't like to look at him.
😄
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@Mr_K said:
Killers don't seem happy with the game either if this forum is any indication.
Killers aren't happy. Survivors aren't happy. It's been that way for 7 years. Any resemblance of happiness disappears in a few days on the forums.
You saw a happy person even momentarily on a video game forum? Is that happy person in the room with you right now?
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It's up to your teammates to make the Killer spread hooks out on everyone. A common thread in many of my games where there is a 4K is one of the Survivors has no hook states until the end since they dont want to present themselves as a target. Games where there's a 4E commonly have survivors trying to spread out aggro among all of the survivors and everyone has one hook state at least.
That's hard to coordinate as a solo queue but I'm don't complain about it because I could always SWF if I wanted to. I don’t want to so I don't but that also means I'm accepting less coordination as part of the deal.
If a Killer spreads out hook states they're trying to consider your enjoyment as well and they should be appreciated for playing such. It's not expected of them though so if there are two survivors with on death hook than the other two should do gens in the Killer's face so they get chased while the two on death hook take the opportunity to do gens.
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When I was reading about DbD and deciding if I should get it I read about the 'The Teacher' Killer that was either a joke or abandoned.
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Not really. I make an effort not to tunnel but if I'm getting swarmed at hook it might happen. If survivors don't swarm the hook then I'll just hook the survivor I downed and go away.
If you're asking why I try not to tunnel then it's because of the Golden Rule. It sucks to be tunneled (less BP and pips) so I try not to do it to others.
Edit: Just to add if tunneling caused you to get more BP and pips than being not tunneled does I'd probably be constantly in the Killer's face virtually shouting 'Pick me! Pick me!'. The chasing can be fun; it's the BP and pip loss I don't like.
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@Zenislev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550083#Comment_3550083
Nice to see that my objectively correct assessment of the game got under your skin.
That being said, yes, both survivors and killers get nerfs and buffs, but they're nowhere near on the same level. Survivors get entire perks that become basekit, and infinitely more information than the killer has access to. Killers get...to break pallets a few fractions of a second faster, I guess? And that was the one time killers got blanket buffs as opposed to the entirely new UI survivors got which let them know when it's safe to crank out gens, the anti hook mechanics they're getting next patch, and hey, let's not forget that the devs said that they're working on a "fix" for 3-genning, because, you know, survivors can never be allowed to put themselves in a bad situation ever.
But your assessment was not objectively correct. The main issues with camping and tunneling was the wildly divergent skill floors to deal with them. It takes a lot less skill to camp or tunnel than it does to counter camping and tunneling.
BHVR isn't considering one side; that should be apparent from the multiple 'BHVR is x-sided' posts where x is the side the poster doesn't play; they're considering the fun of the game. What is objectively correct is that facing a tactic that you can't counter isn't fun. Camping and tunneling are super easy tactics that require a lot more skill to counter than do. That's not fun for new players.
It's also not fun for Killers that camp and tunnel when they hit the MMR where survivors can counter camping and tunneling because the Killer's chase skills, ability to provide pressure, etc are horribly out-classed by the survivors.
After the new measures go through BHVR will monitor data and buff Killers as required. That's what gets done. I played M1 Killers (mainly Clown and Trapper) during the heydey of old CoH and old DH. Those perks got nerfed and Killers got buffed as that was rough for Killers. Saying that BHVR favours survivors is disingenuous especially since BHVR has stated their goal is a 60% kill rate.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550210#Comment_3550210
Don't people usually want to argue that DBD is [other side]- favored
In order to then argue for buffs to their side
I even wrote a template for it so people could save time by copying and pasting.
@TheSubstitute said:
BHVR, I need to discuss what happened. I was playing a match and I lost. This is completely unacceptable. This is why your game is dying and has been on the verge of death every day since June 14, 2016!
It's obvious from my loss that (insert Killer/Survivor/Perk/Add-on) is completely OP and there are no counter strategies. The only reason why people say there are counter-strategies is because they are a (insert either Killer main or Survivor main) and they just want to keep their overpowered crutch. That's why I always win as (Killer/Survivor) while (Survivor/Killer) is so hard on the other side!
I know because I'm high MMR! No, I won't provide any footage of my matches because (my computer won't handle it/I don't want to download a program for it/I don't need to show anything). I lost! That is proof positive of terrible balancing!
Stop favoring (insert either Killer or Survivor)! Everyone knows you're (Killer sided/Survivor sided)! If you really want to please me, which you should because it's all about me fam, please make it so only positive effects from patches affect me and only negative effects affect my opponents.
Signed,
A completely impartial DbD player who plays both sides for certain.
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@ratcoffee said:
I think a lot of people are fundamentally misunderstanding the point of this update
Face camping happens primarily at the low skill bracket, where survivors aren't experienced enough to coordinate a save against the strat. It leads low skill survivors to make bad decisions and to be frustrated with the game, and it boosts low skill players kill rates until they get into games where they're hopelessly outclassed, which ultimately gives them a bad experience as well since such killers don't know any other aspects of the game and they end up with many back-to-back no-hook games.
The point of the update is to force new killers to learn how to play without camping, and to allow new survivors who go against that strat to have an opportunity to play the game.
To that end, disabling the feature while there are still gens left would be a mistake, because you should be trying to prevent the gens from being completed. Chess Merchant is a playstyle that's based around assuming 4 gens will get done and you'll protect one tiny area of the map. I've had several games just today where the killer had 1-2 hooks in the first 3-4 gens completed and ended up getting a 4k - without face camping.
This. I have stated for a long time that camping is unhealthy for Killers in the long run for that reason.
A game without camping is also more fun. I don't want to see camping; I want to see BHVR balance the game around a scenario where people don't camp.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542882#Comment_3542882
Maybe, idk. Console players can send me messages, as well as PC players in the end game. I just don’t see this aggressive toxicity they talk about. Tbags and hits on hook sure, but nothing that’s “abuse”.
I've seen it. That one person hasn't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's been rare for me to but I've definitely seen it.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541202#Comment_3541202
It is still not skillful when the bad player wins because they get a speedboost after they failed to catch the Survivor for 15 seconds. So people should not act as if dropped unsafe pallets are fair. They are, for 15 seconds, but after that, this is not the case anymore.
And what would speak against having no Bloodlust, but only Pallets which can be played by both sides? So that the better player wins? (And dont try to use the phrase "it is a 4v1", this is such a lame non-argument)
VHS thought it being a 4v1 was a lame argument as well. It obviously turned out pretty well for them.
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The Killer was either completely new or was on a pallet break challenge. Since the Killer wouldn't hit you when repeat vaulting a pallet, would swing at air when you passed a pallet without dropping, looked like they were baiting pallet drops and hit you at the exit gates in such a way that you fell forward into the gate even though there was the opportunity to hit you so you would fall away from the gate I'm betting on pallet break challenge.
I play Gideon quite often as well when I have a pallet break challenge (I usually use Billy with Lo Pro though). It's a great map for doing that challenge quickly.
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@Nazzzak said:
I faced a Xeno who ran bamboozle last night and... it was strangely effective. He was weird though, and kept leaving us slugged. Eventually I jumped into a locker during chase to force him to grab me, but instead he stood outside the locker the entire game. No joke. I waited in there until all gens were done and exit gate was open. He downed me when i exited but then let me wiggle off and leave lol one of the top 10 strangest games I've played.
I've done that with Jumpscare Mikey when I just want to mess around. Scare the survivors, two hook everyone and then just slug everyone who is on two hook, let them get picked up (or pick them up or let them wiggle off if their blood meter is low so they don't bleed out), do gens and leave (and smash pallets on me if they want). I've even seen a survivor get 40K a couple of times when I've done that. If the Xeno wasn't hooking or going for a 4 person slug they were just messing around for fun and BP.
It's a nice way to end your playtime especially if you had stressful matches because everyone leaves happy with lots of BP. I picked specific Killers (Jumpscare Mikey and Bubba) to do it on so it didn't mess up matchmaking on games where I'm looking for an actual challenge.
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@Peanits said:
First all, wholeheartedly agree that there's no need to rub it in if you won. It's sad that some folks go out of their way to do it.
This might be a hot take, but it really isn't. When you ask around, things like teabagging in the exit gates or leaving someone slugged for 4 minutes are generally frowned upon. Usually the only people who will come to their defense are the people who are doing it themselves or their friends. Even this thread (so far at least) has multiple people saying that don't support toxic behaviour.
That said, there is also a difference between someone defending that sort of behaviour and suggesting to not let it bother you as much as it is. This is the position I see most people take. Something like teabagging, for example, has been around in games almost as long as crouching. At some point, people become jaded to it and it doesn't bother them as much. That doesn't mean they think it's a good thing to do, just that it doesn't bother them.
It's also very easy to get caught in a bubble that feels a certain way. If you go to Reddit, for example, threads where people catch and kill Survivors who decided to stick around and teabag in the exit gates are very common, and the comments are always filled with people who are against sticking around to taunt. A lot of it really depends on who you surround yourself with. If you're typically hanging around people/spaces with a lot of negativity, things start to seem a lot more negative. There is also something called the negativity bias, where a negative experience is more likely to stand out than a positive one. This can often make it seem like many people welcome toxicity, when in reality, most people do not support it.
There are exceptions, of course. There are some folks who perpetuate toxicity. Someone might have a bad match and then decide to take their frustrations out in the next one - even though those people may have done nothing to deserve it. Ultimately it comes down to immaturity or apathy for other people. The way people act when they're hidden behind a screen is often disappointing, even outside of gaming.
To touch on why we don't ban for some of these, it usually comes down to proving intent. Something like leaving a Survivor slugged could be the Killer's option if there's no hooks nearby and the Survivor is trying to take advantage of it. Trying to carry them to a hook might allow them to wiggle free. Or alternatively, if multiple Survivors are slugged, the Killer might not want to pick someone up in case one of the Survivors has Unbreakable and uses the opportunity to save the others. Things like camping and tunneling are also very tricky because it's borderline impossible to prove intention. Short of someone admitting they're doing it to ruin the fun for you, there's no way to tell what was going through their head. For all we know, they could have thought that was the best move in the situation. They are also very natural things for people to want to do at the end of the day; many new Killers think camping is the optimal strategy because they simply do not know any better. It's not unreasonable for someone to think, "I just worked hard to catch this person, I better stay here and make sure they don't get unhooked."
Bans are something we need to take very seriously. People paid to play the game, and taking that ability away cannot be treated lightly. We can't have situations where we accidentally ban people because we think they might be breaking the rules. Accidents can happen, but removing ambiguity is one of the best ways to prevent them from happening. For this reason, we stick to very clear cut cases where there can be no doubt.
The short version, more often than not, people don't actually support toxicity. But it can really depend on the types of people you're around and what you view as supporting versus simply not caring.
I'm actually quite glad this was the first thread I saw in quite some time as I was taking a break due to, well, being tired of toxicity and was debating whether or not to come back. A part that was particularly frustrating for me was the only other response I saw from a dev was in the past and it was essentially a boys will be boys style comment about toxicity and that was a contributing factor to me taking more frequent breaks.
Your perspective, on the other hand, does seem more reasonable as I understand why you wouldn't want to unfairly ban someone and intent can be hard to perceive. I would say, from a business perspective, that toxicity is bad overall even though it's hard to quantify. As an example, though, I just quietly left and didn't spend any money while I wasn't playing. Now that a dev has acknowledged that being toxic is bad, which is all I wanted to see, I'm going to try out Nick Cage and the Xenomorph. If I had checked out the forums and saw a 'Teabagging and other BMing isn't a concern' attitude I probably would have just quietly uninstalled. That would have been too bad as I do like DbD but there's a point where dealing with an aggravation just becomes something you don't want to deal with enough that players will just walk away.
I do think it should be dealt with more as I had walked away for a few months. There is a truism that if one customer leaves and says why there are tens or dozens more that did the same but without saying why. I wasn't going to say anything if I had left but that I was at that point shows there may be other people about to or having done so as well.
Anyway, thanks for saying that. I know BHVR can't control other people's behaviour but all I had wanted but didn't previously see was just a statement that playing with the intent to ruin another player's enjoyment was considered a bad thing.
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100%. Everyone is playing to have fun; there's no reason to be rude and BM.