TheSubstitute
TheSubstitute
About
- Username
- TheSubstitute
- Joined
- Visits
- 6,661
- Last Active
Comments
-
@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501869#Comment_3501869
I even said it shouldn’t be tactical but you can’t deny that it can be. On a side note, had a Ghost Face teabag at me while I was on death hook. I don’t remember teabagging him first so I guess your entire theory falls apart.
Not really. It's sort of like humping which is just as detestable as teabagging. There are people who are 12 or have the mentality of 12 year olds who BM. If you read posts instead of just skimming them then you would have read that I said being abrasive to people provokes other people to be abrasive back. Unless, of course, you're attempting to argue that's not the case. Are you? If so, then which part of being insulting and BMing other people causes other people to insult and BM back do you disagree with?
-
@DavidHypnos said:
I had a match against a Legion today. They continued to slug Mikaela and hover over her body and follow her as she crawled and if we got her up they went right after her again just to continue doing it.
Her crime? Beats me… maybe they just hate Mikaela. Maybe it’s because she played the Red Forest offering and they didn’t like that. Maybe she outplayed them at one point and they got upset. None of those are good reasons. People on both sides are always going to do things you don’t like, but for some reason everyone wants to take everything personally and feel entitled to make others miserable because of it. That’s not okay.
There’s also just a chance that the Legion was just awful and wanted to single someone out. Some of you might not see slugging very often but some people see it all the time and very often the reason for doing it is either a) they’re trying to get an easier game or b) they want to ruin other people’s fun.
I’d also like to point out that:
*While I don’t teabag, there can be a tactical advantage in doing so. You can use it to distract the killer especially if they’re tunneling someone. Probably shouldn’t be tactical but given how offended people get it can be useful to take the heat off of someone else.
*Survivors don’t have a lot of ways to communicate. I’ve thanked killers the same way I’ve thanked other survivors - by using the crouch button. In most of my cases the killer was able to understand me. However, you could very well be griefing someone who wasn’t trying to be rude.
*It’s not okay to grief someone because they’re running a certain build or perk that you don’t like. Sabotaging hooks, blinds, stuns, etc. are all integral parts of gameplay for survivors. If you feel the need to tunnel and slug me because I was able to get value out of Head On, Blast Mine, Boil Over, etc. then you’re not only oversensitive but being unfair. What it sounds like is that you just don’t like losing or being outplayed and instead of wiping your shoulder and moving on you feel the need to protect your fragile ego by trying to make an example out of someone.
*How would you like it if I went out of my way to bully your killer just because I don’t like playing against them? Or if you had a perk I really don’t like? First of all, you wouldn’t and second of all, outside of a SWF it’s near impossible to actually “bully” a killer due to the imbalance in power. Losing a survivor because someone else blinded you is not being bullied; if everyone just ran around with flashlights trying to blind you while ignoring their objectives… sure, but even then you stand a better chance of doing something about it then a survivor would against a killer.
In short, slugging can be tactical if you have to stop and chase another survivor away especially if they have a flashlight or the like but I wouldn’t consider that “slugging” in the same way that running into the same survivor by chance isn’t “tunneling.” Slugging is pure griefing and saying it wouldn’t happen if ppl didn’t teabag is not only false, but stupid.
It would happen less. Saying teabagging is tactical is both disingenuous and stupid as it only works on brand new Killers. It's griefing as is slugging for no reason. It is completely possible for two actions to both be wrong.
-
Unless you have Sprint Burst Bubba can still drop you through Endurance with his chainsaw even with the unhook and being hit speed boost. It does mean survivors will be more likely to stay on gens (unlike Gabriel above so A for effort D for practicality) so that's an improvement but getting camped by Bubba will still suck.
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487163#Comment_3487163
The dev’s emphasis was that it’s super important for survivors to have good player experience….. and killers just get promised a decent kill rate.
Being a top 1% killer in VHS didn’t fix any of the player experience issues that killer had, it just meant that it’s possible to have miserable player experience and still win a decent percentage of games.
This is very similar to what BHVR seems like they are doing. We get announcement after announcement for BHVR creating some solution to help the survivor player experience, but after all these years the only thing announced primarily for killer player experience is something involving FoV. And BHVR states multiple times that if the survivor buffs move the kill rate too much, that BHVR will fix it, which means that it’s ok if the killer player experience is awful as long as the kill rate is where it should be.
So survivors get an entire HUD, visual heartbeat, removed hook grabs, a future anti-face camp mechanic, survivor bots that were primarily added to help survivors, and a future anti-3 gen mechanic, and increased map clutter and increased line of sight blockers to help survivors hide/escape chases/avoid killer powers….. and killers get something involving FoV, and they partially benefit from survivor bots? And that’s it after all these years? Where are the other player experience buffs that are primarily focused on killers? Why is there such a huge imbalance regarding which role gets the player experience buffs?
I'm not saying Killer doesn't need more. Trapper needs some sort of buff if anyone but new players are to main them, the most original and coolest Killer concept in my opinion (the Singularity) is almost never seen despite being new and I often make jokes about the Twins asking who they are and if they've been added to the game yet as examples.
My only point was that VHS stands as an example as to why games can't balance exclusively for the top. While the best players' experience is important if a game is so miserable at the lower ends that people don't have fun then player numbers drop and the game dies (but devs don't want all the experienced players quitting en masse either if they want a successful game).
Personally, I think the VHS devs lost the forest for the trees. Balance is a tool used to acheive fun; not vice versa. The most important item for a successful product is do people want to use it and VHS focused on is it balanced instead of asking do people want to play the game. Perfect balance at any skill level means nothing if not enough people for the game to survive want to play.
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485172#Comment_3485172
VHS was destroyed because the devs wanted to much for the game to be fun for survivors, that the survivors got pretty much every player experience buff that DBD survivors wanted, and killers were usually ignored so that survivors could have more fun.
That's part of it but not the whole story. The dev's emphasis was on balancing for the top, where Monster players could perform well if they suffered enough to make it there, and they gave far more emphasis to what a few hundred people who were the best players said during closed beta.
The feedback from those who weren't at the top was given far lesser weight and often written off as 'Dbd players trash talking VHS to kill the competition'. That's part of the reason why the 'git gud' mentality was such a prevalent response instead of addressing the factors that drove off most of the new players. While a few people did well as new Monsters most would have had to suffer through dozens of losses before they got to the point that they could deal with other issues. New players with no investment in a game generally will seek out something more fun and the numbers dropped precipitously.
So while what you mentioned was part of it the balancing for the top was the overriding factor. It was at almost an exact 50% won rate at the top for high end games and doing anything to change that (eg making Monster more fun) was overlooked as that balance was the metric that lead to the game's death. A game can't balance exclusively for the top unless it's revenue comes from spectators and not participants.
-
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483600#Comment_3483600
Balancing around the top 5% of players destroyed Deathgarden. I think the devs learned from that so they’re much more cautious about overpowering killers in DBD.
It also destroyed VHS. Balancing exclusively for the top is a game killer.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3481559#Comment_3481559
Whats on the 18th?
It's not Starfield, cuz that's in September.
Texas Chainsaw Massacre probably
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478524#Comment_3478524
Generally speaking, the lower you go in MMR, the better Killer is. That may not be true anymore, but that's how it's always been.
I do agree that if you took the Clown at high MMR and put him up against people equal to his skill, he'd have a rough go of it, for sure.
But I think that if weak Killers can do reasonably alright at the top of the ladder, that's a good sign that the game isn't Survivor-sided. Of course, that doesn't account for ######### matchmaking putting players up against people they have zero business playing against.
The game's definitely not Survivor sided. I 100% agree with that. The match making, in my opinion, kind of favours Killers since Killers don't have teammates bringing down their efficiency once they're past the soft cap. Just as a side note, I don't think it's sided mechanically to either group in general. A specific scenario can be sided to one or the other but with all the RNG, match compositions, etc there are too many variables for the game to favour one side or the other regularly in its current state.
-
@th3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478501#Comment_3478501
20 games of not getting a single win is the definition of a skill issue. You're definitely not doing something right especially with how easy killer is now.
That's not a foregone conclusion since it's entirely possible that a perk carried them up to a higher MMR than they should have been and now it takes time to adjust. That happens in DbD. A similar situation could be seen in 6.1 when DH got its first nerf and it was a bloodbath for a few weeks. The survivors who had to adjust weren't bad players; they just needed to readjust their MMR and relearn their tactics.
We don't know their MMR or anyone's for that matter. We don't know their playstyle or which Killer they use. We do know that gen defense perks have been nerfed heavily. Since we don't know so much and the only thing we do know is that gens are going much faster jumping to a 'get good' comment isn't helpful in the slightest.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3478446#Comment_3478446
It proves that either
A) Despite there being good teams, if you're good enough with a Killer, you can still win.
Or
B) The teams people claim to be getting that are "high mmr perfect swfs" are so uncommon it's not even funny.
It's not a surprise to me at all with how MMR works and the softcap. If, in chess, a 2400 MMR player squares off against a 1600 MMR player the 2400 MMR player has about a 99.6% chance to win. If I'm extrapolating data from WoW MMR to get a vague idea about how many players at each MMR in DbD (since they're both video games with MMR and a large population) roughly 30% of DbD could be at 1600 MMR but less than 1% is at 2400.
Since there are so many more players at the beginning of the soft cap than the top any Killer, if high enough in MMR, could get a good kill streak going even if their mechanics give them a handicap. It's similar to the reason I've been saying that camping and tunneling is not necessary to get a good percentage of wins; in pub games the MMR system is just too loose to force the most effective tactics to be a necessity. A player can handicap their chances and still win a lot once they're experienced just because of how matching works. It's easier for Killers to take advantage of MMR mismatches as well since they only rely on themselves.
I don't think it's useful for balancing though as what would be more important for keeping newer and intermediate players is how do the Killers stack up at comparative skill levels. Like with the recently deceased VHS game Monsters could do well with a lot of experience but who's going to sit through a few dozen losses in a row just so they might be able to do well in the future?
But, yeah, I'm not surprised. The very top ranges of MMR (eg 2700+) probably would have to go through about 1000 games or so before they even found one game that could be a challenge (and they'd still have a chance to win that as well).
-
@th3 said:
Or maybe after 20 games of just losing, you maybe aren't that good. Best of luck with nurse tho
Or, alternatively, gens can pop pretty fast since the gen defense perks got nuked and unless you're playing an A-tier or S-tier Killer it's hard to keep up. It is possible but rather than just disparaging somebody you can acknowledge there are issues.
It's sort of like with solo queue; I can still escape close to half the time but that doesn't mean there aren't issues in solo queue for BHVR to address.
-
I don't think it's for me. I had considered it when I had about two months or so of Artist games (I try to play Artist once a day) without a single loss just because it didn't feel challenging at all but I took a break from DbD instead. The deciding factor for me was that there are a lot of over-enlarged egos in the comp scene and, based off my interactions with at least one poster here who played competitively, that's not the type of energy I want around me.
I also don't think I would enjoy it as people can get super dedicated in a comp video scene. Seeing that always reminds me of when Arena Junkies was around for WoW and, when one gladiator was announcing their departure, another gladiator poster asked them how they felt about having spent so much of their life into something that had no benefit at all for them in their regular life.
That's kind of how I view it as well. Video games are entertainment and fun and nothing else (barring content creators and professional eathletes). There are people who like climbing ranks and are attracted to things like league rankings and that's good for them. They find it entertaining and that's great for them that leagues exist but it's not what I find entertaining.
I also don't watch competitive DbD. I might be curious enough to check out a game and probably would watch a game I knew someone playing in or a match-up sounded really challenging in but other than that why? It's sort of like when I watch content creators like Otz, SpooksNJukez and CoconutRTS. I occasionally watch their stuff because I find the content creator entertaining but not necessarily the game. But a game of people I don't know just playing DbD led by a host who I don't know is entertaining? That's not my go-to option.
-
No Mither, Inner Strength, Renewal and Reactive Healing for survivor.
Beast of Prey, Bloodhound, Hoarder and Hex: Undying for Killer.
No, I'm joking. I didn't take screenshots unfortunately but my Killer wasn't completely horrible with Nowhere to Hide, Lightborn, Overcharge and Hex: Undying. I satisfied my curiosity about if Hex:Undying is cleansed but there are no other Hex perks does it transfer to another totem. (It does not).
My survivor load-out was Bond, Leader, Mettle of Man and Troubleshooter. I was playing Dwight so the two Dwight perks stuck out.
-
@ARTRA said:
Let me give you a bhvr response.
"We are aware of this situation. We are looking on it and have plans for the future. Stay tunned."
(Look at Twins)
Or
"Our data says SM have a propper killrate, but some tweaks may come in a future."
(Looks at trapper and mostly every old killer)
Pick your favourite one.
Jokes aside they say that they are going to change SM in a future in last AMA. Nothing about when, where or how.
Twins? Is that a new Killer? Never seen one.
@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456884#Comment_3456884
They most certainly don't want Wesker, Oni, or Blight who get complained about frequently for being played TOO MUCH.
Billy's fine cause he's not really much of a threat to anyone these days. So it is understandable for people to be confused with what survivors want because basically every type of killer gets complained about unless they literally are too weak or kit hindered to be a threat. Like no one complains about Sadako unless she does condemned cause outside of that one playstyle she's dog water for a number of reasons.
Killers want to know what survivors actually and what devs actually expect. Like we're working with the same stuff as y'all and while bad actors will purposely do aggravating things no matter what, the majority of killers literally are just trying to make killers work for them and viable methods are actually quite limited.
We get hate for chasing, we get hate hit and run, we get hate for gen defense, we get hate for anti-loop, we get hate for tunneling, we get hate for camping, we get hate even when we just let y'all have the game. I can't count how many times I've been nice enough to farm when survivors clearly wanted it only to turn around get hate. So what do y'all really want and do the devs expect? Cause we don't freakin know and every release seems to just be Mixed Signals the movie the game starring Nic Cage. Can not stress enough how mentally ill trying to understand what y'all want makes me sometimes.
Killers are just as infuriating for a lot of the same reasons, but the game doesn't pit me against other killers so that's why this focused on survivors before anyone wants to have a go. That's like survivors asking for SWF nerfs y'all on the same side and not saddled with playing against them so while the pseudo-solidarity is appreciated it don't make sense.
With a population the size of DbD's playerbase it's kind of like posting on the Internet. Somebody somewhere will find fault no matter what you do.
-
Cool, thanks for sharing
-
You can't really assess fault on the survivor being tunneled. You can make arguments for everybody else. The developers for not implementing more anti-tunneling measures (albeit that's hard to do because in any team the most effective move is to remove a member of the opposing team), the other survivors for not bodyblocking enough and getting in the Killer's way (this is a team game) and, if you want, the Killer for being sweaty when it's unnecessary (but that's a pretty debatable point since the Killer is just using the tools the devs have allowed). The survivor being tunneled though? They're the only party here with no agency in this situation.
Tunneling is baked into any PvP game with a team. Even in symmetrical games (eg WoW arenas) the most efficient tactic was to remove an enemy ASAP and that almost guaranteed victory. If you had two teams equal in every way the team that used focus fire would win over the one that didn't.
Of course, that's even less fun for the multiple person role in an asymmetrical game. Personally, I think if a survivor is eliminated the remaining survivors should get a repair speed buff and, prior to that, the Killer should get an effect basekit to Dying Light that slows down gens based on number of hooks on survivors active in the match and deactivates each individual debuff as soon as the hooked survivor dies (so the Killer wants to keep each survivor in the match until it's time to clean up and end the match).
That way, Killers who tunnel someone out early are punished for doing so (with a gen repair buff) and are rewarded for spreading hooks around (with gen slowdown) as long as the hooked survivors are still in the match. If you also make it so the survivors don't get the repair speed buff if the survivor who left the match DCed it might also help discourage DCing.
There's potential for abuse such as suiciding on hook or leaving a teammate to die for the buff but that's discouraged by now being short a person. Being down one person means gen progression generally comes to a crawl if the Killer can keep getting downs (one being healed, one unhooking, one being chased means nobody doing gens in a 3v1) so that should discourage abuse. I think what I mentioned could lead to games with less tunneling and more spreading hooks around (which are the more enjoyable games for most)
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
BHVR is company and Feng costumes sells like crazy. Do you really expect them to stop make Feng costumes? For which character?
I mean there should be good reason to not make Feng costumes.
This is a joke based on how many Feng cosmetics BHVR puts out.
@ReikoMori said:
There is only Feng Prime and Feng Variants.
My personal favorite is currently Nerd Witch Feng
That is quite true. That would explain why the survivors are all getting voice acting lines in whic the survivors chant 'We are Feng' in a monotonous voice like the Borg in Star Trek.
-
I love Surveillance. Knowing where to go and when is so helpful.
-
@Veroles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452533#Comment_3452533
Do you read your own sentence at all? You said it again, you wanna control a reaction. Action or reaction doesn't matter. It is still manipulation because you wanna control someone.
Attempting... to... control... What is an attempt to control? You wanna control something. You wanna control a certain situation.
You can not know something what makes people upset when you do not know this person at all. You just can guess what happens, nothing more.
I'm absolutely stunned how people can't see this.
Probably because you're completely wrong and the person who can't see it but you do you. As a direct analogy if I said people shouldn't give other people the middle finger because it's offensive to many people is that attempting to control people? In case you still don't get it the middle finger is teabagging in this case.
-
@scoser said:
It'd be fun to play if every single time I tried to use my power it wasn't insta-EMPed.
You do get EMPed a lot. I put them on loops and in places facing a large area at once. As an example, I always put one in shack. Why? Survivors love looping at shack since it's such a strong tile. They go in, they get zapped. Or at gens with wide spaces such as RPD atrium I put one by the gen and another far enough away an EMP at the gen won't hit it. The survivors are now forced to either waste time with getting additional EMPs.
I think of it like Trapper; put them in areas where survivors are likely to go and then I can zap them. It takes time to get EMPs so get survivors to waste a lot of time. It's very much an attrition battle so I find wearing them out gets me to keep my power.
-
@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452354#Comment_3452354
There's more tbagging than bleeding out because they're not equivalent in any way. Tbagging is literally pressing a button and doesn't have any consequence, bleeding out someone not only requires work but it also wastes 4 minutes of the killer's own time. You can't bleed out someone mid-game without basically giving up the game.
One is a taunt and the other is a 4min time out for both players, most killers don't bother punishing tbaggers this way because it's not worth it.
Of course if people stopped tbagging the number of bleed outs would diminish (and I agree it would be good), but the ones getting bled out less would be the ones who deserved it in the first place. Survivors who get bled out for no reason would still get BMed as much. So like, I don't know who your post is aimed at because survivors who tbag don't care enough to stop, those who don't can't do anything about it and apparently you don't want to stop punishing survivors (which is fine, you do you).
Also, everyone's experience is different. I've personally experienced more BM from killers than survivors for at least a few months, and I get bled out way more than 1/100 games. On the other hand I rarely get tbagged (even at the gates).
Finally, I'm not sure how survivors tbagging at the exit gates relates to this, considering if they're escaping you can't bleed them out, unless you take it out on the next innocent batch of survivors or bleed survivors out preemptively. But then it's just the chicken and the egg, survivors BM because they assume the killer will tunnel or slug or whatever and killers BM because they assume survivors will gloat if they win (and it'd be silly to argue about which side started it first).
I already covered your arguments in my original post.
-
@lifeisstrange said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452288#Comment_3452288
Woopie for you , you cant speak for everyone else, as with me both side is toxic in the same and everyone gets different experience for my swf and I arent toxic and we dont t bag or click unless the killer was the first to BM =which is hitting multiple times just cause they got looped or initially tunnel. I seen in solo q if doing solo que a personrun the person didnt t bag but the reason they start to DO it is simply because the killer came back to the hook to tunnel. Do not act if killers do not initiate bming first. Some people will t bag when the killer insists to tunnel.
Also people just need to let go of their ego for a silly video game, killer bm me oh cool am laughing that means I made you angry, and your wasting your time while then (gen rushers) slams the gens. survivors t bagging oh well i just go around and break drop pallets or what not and not even go to the exit gates lol or if am ghosty I do it back and get a kick out of it really. As a final meme=please hit me on the hook and I have calm spirit on LOL.
You need to reread my posts so you actually understand what I'm saying.
-
@Veroles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452354#Comment_3452354
That's good you apologize but you don't get to control how people react.
That is absolutely true but do you know what? I do not even want to control how anyone acts because that's manipulation.
I'm not controlling how anyone acts. I said react and that's what you're attempting to control. If you know something upsets people it's common human decency to not do it to them and, if you don't know your audience, not to so something that is likely to upset someone.
-
@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452228#Comment_3452228
lol well i guess if you only BM because you were BMed first surely it's what everyone does.
For real though, if you play only or mostly killer I'm not sure how you know how other killers behave, and if you do play a certain amount of survivor I can't fathom how you would actually believe this whole "survivors are toxic and killers are only responding" bs.
Finally, you are right: there are no sides. The same people BMing you on one side are most likely the same people BMing you on the other side, so it's clearly not a question of who's worst, who started what and 'if this side stopped surely the other would' (they wouldn't).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452287#Comment_3452287
Welp, lucky you lmao. I don't get slugged very often but it's probably between 1/20 and 1/30 or something if I had to guess. On the other hand i don't know if it's because I play Demogorgon and play nice or if I'm just lucky but I genuinely very rarely get tbagged. Like, I get tbagged more often by survivors offering me their items or for other non-toxic reason than I get tbagged at the exit gates or mid-chase or whatever, and by quite a margin. I think these things probably also depend on MMR, server and time of playing (and also way of playing probably, I'm a chill killer so survivors rarely get very competitive against me).
I've posted a lot of survivor play and, from my posting history, it's clear I do play a lot of survivor. I also don't BM on either role and one of the common experiences of people that play both roles is that Killers experience more BM than survivors.
You're also not comprehending my entire argument. I'm not saying there's aren't toxic Killers; I even stated I get bled out by somebody being toxic about one in a hundred games. What I'm saying is that if survivors stopped teabagging Killers then the number of bleed outs would diminish.
How many times does a Killer bleed out survivors just to bleed them out without provocation? Very little. How often does at least one survivor teabag a Killer at a loop or at the exit gates? You know the answer to that.
If people want less bleeding out as BM then start respecting their opponents and don't initiate BM and stop gloating at the exit gates.
@Veroles said:
I just can say you never can be sure 100% what does trigger something in people and what not. It is impossible as long as you do not know people that good that you can understand why things trigger so much.
Not in a video game nor in real life. When people seem to think they do know what does trigger something in other people and what not, that are liars in my opinion, because they really seem to think every human on this planet has exact the same feeling world and that is absolutely selfish and blind.
I do not use CTRL for being toxic to others and when people really think that is not true they do not deserve any of my respect until they think twice about it. I can not describe how much that makes my brain hurt reading such a nonsense.
The much better question is: Why people get affected by it so much and why this is so a big thing at all for some people especially in a virtual world?
I do understand that that can trigger things in others, but people can not expect that I can act in a way what makes it avoiding to trigger something in others without blocking myself all the time, because I am simply not the same person. Things what triggers myself doesn't mean that has to trigger others. I will not start blocking myself just because there is a possibility that something goes wrong. I am a person who loves acting free and that would prevent it. Forget it.
I t-bag sometimes but never with the intention to harm anyone in anyway. That's always relating to the gameplay and I do not aim onto the player behind the character. It is more a way to show "I am ready for a chase" or it meant like "I have no fear, no matter if you chase me or not".
Besides, I always try to apologize when I have the feeling something went wrong because of me, at least I try to.
That's good you apologize but you don't get to control how people react. If I do a thumbs up that means that's great where I live. In Greece and the Middle East it means 'up your'. I'm not going to argue that people in Greece or the Middle East should accept my interpretation as that would be ridiculous and selfish. What I would do is not give a thumbs up to anyone from Greece and the Middle East as that's basic human decency.
It's the same thing with teabagging. You do not get to control how the other person interprets the action. It is offensive to many people and by doing it you would be arguing that your desire to do it is more important than how the other person reacts. That would be selfish and entitled so just don't do it if you truly don't want to upset anyone.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3452248#Comment_3452248
You even mentioned there are non toxic reasons why a killer will hit on hook and it's the same with tbagging. For example if I'm in a game at everyone is on death hook at 4 or 5 gens, I'm injured and the killer is chasing someone else I'll often run out and tbag not to be toxic it's just my way of saying I'm here come and kill me and let's get this over with.
That is true. I'm defining teabagging here as the 'you suck and f off' expression. Unfortunately without many emotes crouching repeatedly is the easiest form of expression but it can also mean thank you, good job, please show mercy, please heal me, etc as well as the f you usage. I should clarify that whenever I bring it up. I'm referring to at pallets in a chase and that type of teabagging when it's done specifically to taunt the Killer and make the Killer feel bad.
-
@lifeisstrange said:
Another bias topic and wrong both sides are just as toxic equally and people need to stop saying its mostly survivors, how many games I play and I dont t bag or click at the killer but get tunnel/camp/bm on hook for doing a good loop or mind game and specially cause am a streamer which we KNOW killer mains are one of the most bias people towards streamers.
Killers do not slug only for being t bag, there are reasons like bad hook spawns totally legit I get that. There killers who are just plain sweaty and has a kit that purposely is use to do slugging(nurses/twins/wraiths/spirit). There is the common and most annoying slugging where its just 2 survivors and killer slug third person and tries to find the 4th one for their 4k
I can ask why must killer smack on hook/face camp/tunnel or even bleed out the person that mind game them and its not like there being toxic, they are just doing what to do not be killed?
But there is more BM from the survivor side (Killers shouldn't BM either) and it's normally (but not always) started by survivors. There is no reason to hit someone on hook more than once (the once is usually just to stop the screaming) or bleed them out just to be a jerk but there is also no reason to teabag at the exit gates or at pallets. How many times does at least one survivor teabag at the exit gates versus how many times does the Killer hit on hook or bleed out just to bleed out?
I'm not saying there's a greater percentage of people in either role but there is objectively more BM coming from survivors than Killers. There are four times as many survivors as Killers in any one game. How could there not be more BM from the survivor side?
Also, I don't refer to one side or the other as a side as, ideally, players would play both roles. It would increase their empathy for what the other side experiences and benefit them by improving their gameplay as well.
-
@CatnipLove said:
So everyone's debating whether teabagging is almost wholey responsible for scenarios where they get slugged, based off one person's personal experience?
You have no clue why individual killer players are slugging. You just assume it's because survivors are being toxic. Why? Why are survivor players inherently toxic but killer players are all good natured, lovely people, who only ever behave in an antisocial manner when provoked by a survivor?
You also mentioned gaslighting, right after you asserted that the primary reason survivors get bled out by killer players is because they teabag. And if survivors were not toxic to the killer then it would almost entirely stop. That's litterally gaslighting.
You shouldn't be offering people advice on how to not get griefed based purely off of a personal hunch. Especially when your personal hunch is that the person getting griefed probably deserved it.
While I am one person I have played over 2.5K hours on both sides. And it's not a hunch. If you are rude to a person the other person is more likely to be rude back. Are you attempting to argue that?
-
@burt0r said:
While it is correct that taunting will cause a reaction and therefore nobody that Tbags should ever be surprised or complain about gettingcamped/tunneled/slugged, saying that i"f you don't tbag, you won't get slugged" is false and naive.
It's the hen and egg cycle. One will increase the odds of the other but both happen on their own no matter of circumstances all the time.
I played explicitly friendly (no camping, tunneling and slugging only to avoid an early kill) and still got a hefty amount of tbagging and other BM.
And it is probably the same for peacefully playing survivors that don't taunt and still get camped/tunneled/slugged for whatever reason.
But I'm not saying if you don't teabag you won't get slugged. I'm saying being bled out just to be bled out will be significantly reduced if you don't teabag.
I also didn't refer to Killers as Killers get BMed far more than survivors. When I play Killer I also don't camp or tunnel and slug mainly to keep a Survivor in the game for longer just to avoid killing them early. I also get BMed but less than I would otherwise.
My point is that negativity breeds negativity. There is no reason to initiate BMing. Everyone is just playing a game to have fun and people can (and should) respect their opponents or, as a bare minimum, treat them as they would anybody else.
@Annso_x said:
I've never Tbagged (intentionnally at least), I get slugged as much as the next survivor.
Thinking one side is toxic for no reason whatsoever while the other side being toxic is justified 90% of the time because "the other side surely started it" is absolute baloney.
Except you're incorrect. When I play Killer, unless BMed, I don't camp, tunnel, and alternate hooks to make sure that nobody goes out early. Although it was on a different topic than BMing I've even posted videos of gameplay here where I've deliberately kept survivors around longer just so they could have a decent game. I still get teabagged and BMed.
There is more BM from survivors than from Killers. It's easier to do (teabagging can be done from the start while bleeding out requires a chase and downing a survivor first), people who are the type to BM are more likely to do it in a group against an individual, and while almost nobody defends things like bleeding out just to bleed out there are unfortunately many people who will attempt to defend survivors BMing or minimize it which makes it more acceptable in their minds.
There's also no reason to BM. There are no sides; everyone here is just here to have fun playing a videogame. Something that would go a long way to reducing BM would be not starting it in the first place.
-
I thought that was a given and a good thing. Nuke camping and tunneling from orbit and then buff Killers. It'll make for a far healthier game.
-
I did it as a newer player just to learn. I needed to learn the maps, learn how to track and how to mindgame at tiles. When I became experienced enough to be comfortable with all that I stopped doing it and focused more on actually winning the game.
That's a possible explanation. From playing survivor I'd say ego can be quite a good portion as well from when I get hit on hook multiple times after long chases (not a frequent occurrence but it does happen).
-
If the other survivors are at the hook then yes. If not, I try to find other survivors and pressure the exit gates. Standing around a hook is boring and I'm here to have fun.
-
@James4125 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448521#Comment_3448521
Agreed its a user issue but if devs would stop including these types of achievement and instead include achievements that reward and promote teamwork and interesting mechanics instead of pointless grinding there would be no issue.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448585#Comment_3448585
I don't see how thinking a number that shows you're the best in the world at a game is more valuable than a number that shows you bought a game that gives you a number for pressing a single button many times in specific circumstances is in any way elitist but this is completely off topic at this point anyway so I'm going to discontinue this.
If you want to debate it though I'm happy to continue in a separate topic.
That would depend if you can explain to me, outside of being a content creator (which is both PvP and PvE) or winning a competition with a cash prize, how either number brings any value to your life other than personal satisfaction and entertainment. On their own, absent of the above, neither number brings anything and it's elitist to look down on somebody else's entertainment.
-
@betelgeuseyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448771#Comment_3448771
I understand that, it has been discussed and I've addressed it. You don't understand. Good or bad survivors, makes no difference. Slugging for bleedout works at all levels. The fact it's even possible is bad enough. It doesn't matter if it's against the toughest survivors or the weakest.
As @Seraphor just mentioned you're still showing you don't understand because you keep saying MMR should stay the same or go down. That would reward the Killer who's slugging. The Killer should get progressively harder opponents which is accomplished by MMR increasing. Having MMR stay the same or go down rewards Killers for slugging by giving easier matches; having MMR go up does not reward the Killer.
-
@betelgeuseyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448614#Comment_3448614
It doesn't matter how good survivors are, they're at the mercy of a four slug bleedout regardless. It should be clear to all who's perception isn't clouded. MMR should stay the same or go down or make unbreakable basekit or something, all the current system does is tell killers to forget about hooks entirely if you don't care about rewards and just want to troll those teabagging survivors.
You still don't understand. MMR is correlated to the skill level of your opponents. If your MMR goes up it's supposed to give you harder opponents. Why should someone who's slugging every survivor get easier opponents so it's easier to bleed put opponents (which is what your idea suggests)?
-
@betelgeuseyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448335#Comment_3448335
It is clear I know it's not a reward system.
It's not clear. It's the opposite of clear. Do you want Killers who try to slug all 4 survivors to have an easier time slugging all 4 survivors (MMR stays the same or lowers) or to have a harder time slugging all 4 survivors (Killer MMR goes up)? If you want less 4 person slugs then you want the Killer's MMR to go up.
-
@James4125 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448004#Comment_3448004
Nor exactly. See if you're playing a game that shows your skill based rank that's you saying "yeah I'M that good and you better be prepared for someone of my caliber". That's an accomplishment.
In the case of something like DbDs visual ranks its more of a "I'm this experienced" doesn't prove you're good. Doesn't mean you're bad. Not so much of an accomplishment but it shows you are experienced.
Now in game achievements on the other hand? For every LASO there's a press start at the main menu "achievement". For every finish with a perfect score there's a die once "achievement" and more specifically where DbD is concerned for every master X killer/survivors adept achievement there's a ruin the game for the other players achievement.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3448013#Comment_3448013
We're it that straightforward I'd agree with you. But the problem lies when those achievements are simply not fun to achieve. Going for the RPD achievement encourages sending yourself and 4 others to a highly unpopular map (that the achievement hunter very likely also dislikes thus ruining the match for themselves also) then potentially screwing over your entire team for a miniscule amount of happiness.
I like the concept of achievements when they are actual achievements. When it's just grind menial task and feel frustrated while doing so those achievements should be changed or removed.
It's still a worthless number that has no effect on your life outside of the videogame. I'm not saying this to disparage anybody but to rather bring it into perspective. Having a PvP rating is an acheivement on the same level as getting all the acheivements in DbD. It doesn't make either better than the other and neither do anything for the person accomplishing it than a sense of personal satisfaction. The exact same reason why some people chase acheivements is the same reason why people chase PvP rankings and neither should look down on the other; unless you're a content creator or your job is esports having an MMR ranking (visible or not) or having all acheivements in a game does nothing for you except for any personal satisfaction that you derive and, quite frankly, it's something that nobody outside of the video game cares about (and many in the video game don't care about).
If you're going to call getting acheivements in a game worthless then, by the same criteria, any rating in a PvP game is worthless. It only shows how that individual likes to be entertained and nothing else.
TL;DR: A PvP acheivement in a video game is not more real or worth more than doing acheivements on Steam as an example. Don't be an elitist and act like your version of entertainment is somehow better than another person's form of entertainment.
-
@James4125 said:
RPD gets offered up a lot because of that one achievement. No idea why people would willingly try to do that for a meaningless icon and a small increase to a worthless number but there it is.
Didn't you just describe every PvP video game (especially ones that show their ranking) that ever existed?
-
@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446077#Comment_3446077
Well that's a bit sad. Now I wasted 2000 Iri Shards on a useless perk 😅
Which perk was it? WGLF, CoH or MoM?
-
Pre 6.1 I used a MoM, WGLF, Empathy, and CoH build. It was quite fun but neither WGLF or CoH work for those purposes anymore and I haven't come up with a suitable substitute for it yet.
-
Rancor is the best 'Just Leave' perk we have.
-
If you stay within a certain radius of the hook you lose Emblem points. If that's not it, then Plague, as an example, loses Merciless points anytime a survivor cleanses. If it's not something similar to either of the above I have no idea; sorry.
-
@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444123#Comment_3444123
I don't disagree with you, there are survivors who don't wanna trade their hook states and that can become a problem later on because they never use them up and if killer sacrifices them last they just died on their first hook anyway.
Exactly. If survivors don't force Killers to spread hook states they'll lose. One of the issues I find with tunneling is that the skill floor to tunnel is a lot easier than the skill floor to counter it. That's part of the reason why I always argue the game would be better off if camping and tunneling were made extremely difficult and then Killers were given buffs to compensate. I think it would be healthier for the game overall.
-
@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3444032#Comment_3444032
No killer will leave their injured survivor. Bodyblocking might do the trick, but not always.
They will if you make it impossible for them to get to them and, if the Killer won't even swing at you, you and the injured survivor have wrecked the Killer's pressure. The best counter to tunneling is forcing the Killer to spread out hook states. What most of my 3 or 4E games have in common more than any other factor is multiple hook states spread out over the team. What most of my 4K losses have in common is the last one or two remaining survivors with no hook states until they get killed. Hook states are a resource to be spread out and part of the macro strategy of the game. It's far more reliable to bodyblock to get Killer aggro than it is to teabag which is a crappy BM thing to do and only really works on Killers new to the game.
-
@TheWheelOfCheese said:
Maybe the tea bagging survivor at exit is actually trying to say "gg killer, hit me for some free points at the gate!"
LOL. 9 times out of 10 they run out of the gate before I can land a hit, so no, that's definitely not it.
I'm not saying this applies to all but it's not super easy to see the line where you're one footstep away from leaving the match and one where you're leaving the match. It is possible to want to give the Killer a hit but accidentally step just a little bit too far. I don't blame anyone I see being overcautious as, on the Survivor side, I have had Killers (albeit rarely) try to angle the hit to force me back into the match so they can pick me up and hook me.
@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3443910#Comment_3443910
I sometimes tbag if I get too into the game, but when I see in the end screen that the killer is new I just apologize. I just tbag to goad the killer to me but overall It's not something I think to do the majority of the time.
In my Demogorgon game I brought MoM, that I bought in the Shrine and I see Felix getting chased and I am like "ok I can take a protective hit", then Felix slams shack oallet in my face although I was right behind him 😅
And then Demo switches to me and he starts camping me and hitting me, like what did I do?
Rather than teabagging to goad the Killer you could just make yourself seen and/or bodyblock so there's no BM. Less inexperienced Killers are far more likely to fall for that than experienced Killers so why BM and make their day worse if they're not BMing?
-
The part that worries me about TCM is that one of the designers said there was too much doom and gloom in the subreddit about the Family feeling weak.
While it is too soon to really figure that out the designer dismissing the possibility out of hand without considering it gave me schadenfreude about what happened in closed beta with VHS. If players feel the Killer role(s) are a joke player retention will suffer.
On the bright side the designers have said they're happy with a 60/40 win rate for the Family/Victims so as long as the new player experience is kept in mind it should turn into a good side game with DbD. It's just after seeing what happened with VHS I'm a bit cautious in my expectations when I hear devs make statements like that.
-
@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442903#Comment_3442903
But then the solution is easy: Let survivors know what killer they go against, and let them lobby dodge.
Result: slightly longer queue times, but no more ruined matches. Also, since a lot of hard counters from killers are now removed (calm spirit and doctor might be left, and plague and/or no mither might be an issue), there is not too much to do with that information as survivor. Thus, parity would be restored.
btw, wouldn´t it be entitlement to demand that other players to remain in a match with you, no matter how boring, unfair or whatever you play?
It's not the Killer as to why the survivor should stay in the match; it's the other survivors. They get shafted by the survivor giving up and, as part of a team, being a good teammate means you don't just give up and sabotage your team. Being considerate entails, if other people are counting on you, you do your best to follow through. Not caring if your own team is wrecked by your actions is the entitled attitude.
-
@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442495#Comment_3442495
I did! Apparently one of the twins is diminutive in size. Can you imagine all of the potential creative cosmetics he and his sister will have?! I don’t have any idea for the release date, sorry. I’m sure BHVR is taking their time to perfect their mechanics and the many outfits before they release them.
That would be amazing. Surely nobody would pass up all of the outfits such a small character would have.
-
@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442495#Comment_3442495
Probably a scrapped concept. Just imagine all the bugs that a twin character would possibly create in this game!!
That's true; it's probably better the Twins has never been seen or used.
-
@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442436#Comment_3442436
Oh, that makes sense. I thought it was a leak for an upcoming character.
Speaking of leaks, have you seen the screenshots for this character called The Twins? Any idea when BHVR will add them to the game?
-
@SirCracken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3442140#Comment_3442140
Yep. That was me.
I could have worded that post better. As it wasn't supposed to be directed at everyone who was struggling to learn the game. Just specifically the people who played the game for a few hours, got stomped on, and left a rambling post on the forums demanding the game be changed because they refused to even try to learn it. Which there was an abundance of when the game released on steam. So I'll take accountability for that.
I feel like you're being perhaps a bit too judgemental though. "You would have a past history of really poor takes on games and a definite lack of empathy..." You really going to look at a forum post I made about people bitching about video game balance and make a character judgement of me because of that?
I only hope you do the same for everyone you argue with and aren't making exceptions when it suits you...
Regardless, DbD isn't alive right now because BHVR listens to players, (Which they do rather inconsistently at best), it's alive because it had a promising and unique concept with it first came out and then got various popular horror licenses to maintain it's spotlight. Even though the balance of the game has technically gotten better over the years, it has also gotten very stagnant. And the content cycle is so short that good chapters are less common than the bad ones.
I've had so many people ruin my games because they don't like Knight, and at this point it's happened so much I'm basically used to it, but that doesn't meant that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions.
I hope you run into less people like that; it does suck for everyone involved. Good luck with your matches; I hope they go better.