TheSubstitute
TheSubstitute
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Dead Hard and NOED have been debated dozens of times more than Distortion. Distortion is great as it makes stealth play more viable.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3730015#Comment_3730015
Vecna isnt even fantasy horror hes a wizard who casts funny spells lol. And what genre of horror is rainbow six siege again I forgot
You should familiarize yourself with Ravenloft and Vecna's DnD lore before making that claim.
Edit: I'll add a screenshot.
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When I play survivor I only play solo queue. My schedule can be unpredictable so it's easier if the only person I'm relying on is myself.
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The issue I have with saying 'fix the game' or 'make it more fun' is that roughly 1/2 of the games I see survivors hook DC in would have been winnable if the survivor hadn't killed themselves on hook. Some of those games weren't even a speculative win but a definite win as 2 or 3 people escaped even with a hook DC even though we only had three survivors to work with.
What I would like to see would be something like what @Reinami has suggested before or my own suggestion where, roughly stated, gens are slower while all survivors are alive but speed up as survivors are killed so the best strategy (or at least a very viable strategy) is to get all survivors on death hook and then sacrifice them.
While a lot of people give up too early their frustration stems from how DbD is tons of fun when played as intended (multiple spread out hooks) and sucks when played as efficiently as possible (tunneling and possibly proxy camp).
If the level of frustration went down then I think a lot less giving up on hook would happen.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726876#Comment_3726876
It was so funny to watch VHS drop, have hype for about a week, and then slowly die, all because of this one thing that I knew was gonna kill it. From the very first gameplay I saw of it, what was the biggest thing I took from it? "Doesn't look fun. Looks like the killer's getting stunned over and over." It's the exact same thing with DBD, but it's just subtle enough to where people don't perceive it that way.
What made what happened worse in my opinion is that the devs were told by play testers that if you can't keep at least 15% preferably 20% of the people in queue as Monsters then the game will die due to ever increasing queue times and that with the skill floor to be effective as a Teen being so much lower than that of Monster almost nobody is going to stick with Monster long enough to get to the point it is effective.
The devs could have easily seen it as every beta key wave had the exact same pattern. Keys were issued, queues were good for a week or so and then the game became a lobby simulator because so few people wanted to play Monster. This happened every single time.
I thought the game had tons of potential but it was all wasted since a very vocal segment of the playerbase couldn't accept that both sides need to have fun.
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As someone who was in the closed beta and continued playing VHS until it shut down Monster was a miserable, unforgiving experience since Teens could fight back.
Another issue was that the higher tier Monster players would rave about the 'balance' and they were correct in stating that with enough Monster play Monster could be a strong role.
The problem with that statement is that it took the average player hundreds of games to reach that point and, in the meantime, the Monster player was severely bullied and stomped on to the point that over 99% of all new Monster players quit before reaching that point. Imagine a Lights Out scenario where only the Killer has the negative effects but still has a Terror radius (but not a red stain), amplify the Killer's movement sounds by roughly 300%, and make it so if you don't spot a hiding Teen they can blast you into oblivion. That's what normal VHS gameplay was like.
However, VHS was just balancing around the top end players (where it was well balanced) for 90% of its lifespan and ignored that if almost nobody would play long enough to get to that skill level on one side the game's queues would just lengthen and lengthen until the game died. The 4 would just torment the 1 in the majority of the games and it was distinctly not fun.
So no, allowing survivors to fight back would be a horrible idea. Every game that has had it has died because it's a terrible idea.
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@Mr_K said:
For 8 years solo que existed without coms. When the killer could mori without hooking. When Ruin required hitting Greats just to not lose progress. When games could start as a 1v3, 1v2, or 1v1. When camping and tunneling didn't exists.... oh wait it did, and it was worse then.
What really changed to cause the survivor role to become so pathetic?
I think the tunneling is worse now. While I can't speak for everyone's experience that has been mine.
You're not considering that survivors had a lot of busted stuff during that time period (eg full gen BNPs, pre 6.1 DH, infinite loops, etc) that also should have never existed but did and helped counter balance the busted stuff Killers have.
As well, the old matchmaking would lead to very imbalanced matches where getting a super easy 4E interspersed the being obliterated 4Ks.
You can't bring up one side (the buffs for survivors) without also talking about the impact of the nerfs and changes in matchmaking on the solo queue experience.
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It's silly. Give the 2nd last survivor a bleed out option and give the Killer the same BP and pips as a 4K regardless if the last survivor gets hatch or not if there are gens left.
If there are gens left and the hatch is open the Killer has decisively won. There's no need for someone to spend up to 4 minutes on the ground since the Killer has already won and there's no need for the Killer to not get the BP and pips reflecting that they won.
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There's no point in making a Killer perk basekit for all Killers until the delta between strongest and weakest Killer is addressed.. As an example, when you play Trapper even semi-consistently you'll need Corrupt Intervention and Deadlock to ensure there is more than 1 gen left by the time you set up your traps. Giving Trapper Corrupt Intervention would be welcome.
Giving Corrupt Intervention as basekit to Nurse would be just a 5th perk slot and disproportionately benefit her.
It's different with survivors since they're all just skins anyway. If there were individual advantages to playing survivors (eg Claudette healed faster just for being Claudette or had all the rocks highlighted to go hide and self care against Sloppy Butcher behind; the second part is a joke for anyone that didn't get it) then giving basekit stuff for survivors would have to consider it. It doesn't work that way though so it's not a consideration for Survivors.
Killers, though, need buffs on an individual basis because they're not just skins.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715187#Comment_3715187
A game that can be balanced towards a broader, more engaging gameplay experience, without the constant threat in the background.
This is the ideal outcome. There are people who are mocking the Killers will tunnel more statement but it's true. It might not be true to the degree they're implying but nerfing gen regression always leads to a few more people tunneling everytime. It's not like buffing gen regression will lead to significantly less tunneling either though.
The best solution is making it so tunneling and 4 person slugging are the least efficient strategies and then rebalancing the game after.
People say it won't be happening but why not? Dbd played without tunneling, camping and 4 person slugging is far more enjoyable than played with for most people on both sides so why not do something that will make the game better overall?
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@ratcoffee said:
Every single patch I've seen, there's been at least one person *insisting* that slugging would increase in reaction to [killer nerf or survivor buff]. That trend of slugging has always failed to materialize.
I don't think there will be more slugging; I think there will be an increase in tunneling. It won't be a huge increase but, unless the unannounced changes include something that affects this, there will be an increase.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3709707#Comment_3709707
I only want to hook one.
The whole point is to get a 4K with one hook on one Survivor that activates 60 seconds of Blood Warden when there is less than 60 seconds remaining in EGC.
That way they all think they're home free only to be blocked with no possible escape.
I understand. I was just mentioning that, no matter what, it's really, really hard to get a 4K by relying on Blood Warden. It's awesome if you can pull it off but it's really rare. Good luck with it though; I hope you get better success than I've had (or not had in this case).
Edit: You might want to try Knight with the add-on where a survivor chased by the guards can't leave through the exit gates. It complements it well for the pro. The con is, well, you're playing Knight without one of Map of the Realm or Dried Horseflesh
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No Mither could be removed from the game. It's done mostly for challenges (which isn't fun for the person doing the challenge or their teammates), sometimes to troll the Killer and exploit bad hook placement with SWFs, Exponentially, etc or a very few times done for an extra difficulty setting or as a meme with Resilience, etc. Alternatively, replace all Tome Challenges involving No Mither with something else and let No Mither users pick themselves up once.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3709692#Comment_3709692
Oh wow. Yeah, I'm just reading the perk description again.
I thought the gates had to be open and someone had to be hooked for the aura reveal to activate.
You're correct that it would activate their Distortion.
This is really depressing. I really wanted to pull this off.
It's possible but extremely hard. Also, even if you down all of them in the exit gates and are trying to hook them all how many hooks can you realistically reach before someone is on your shoulder long enough to wiggle off?
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@AceRaySurvivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664860#Comment_3664860
People are always gonna have bad experiences that's the point of a mute option but people will also have good experiences and make friends in the game they love. VoIP is easy to add so many games have it, its 2024 and most would welcome it. if you dont wanna VC just disable it but those of us that do will keep it on. ;)
And those that feel like they're missing out on a feature or don't want to have to disable a feature so they don't have to listen to racial and other slurs will just move on to another game.
Or, instead, anybody who wants voice chat can use Discord instead of saying other people should have to listen to slurs.
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I'm indifferent myself. There are pros and cons to both Emblems and MMR.
MMR encourages more sweatiness, tunneling and hyperefficient strategies while discouraging off meta and meme builds. However, the matches are a lot more balanced and the data provided by matches is more useful.
Emblems would give less balanced matches than now and provide worse data but the most hyper efficient strategies would be discouraged more as they would give less pips. Off meta and meme builds would have more room to be fun.
Realistically, the issues would be better solved by reworking the game mechanics so spreading hooks becomes the best strategy but who knows if that will ever happen? In the meantime, the choice between MMR and Emblems is sort of a pick your poison situation. Both have pros and cons.
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I don't consider it tunneling if the survivor has a chance to heal up, someone else is chased and hooked after the first survivor has been unhooked, or if the survivor does something foolhardy like doing a gen immediately after getting unhooked.
That said, I do see tunneling in the majority of my games. Tunneling is an issue that should be addressed.
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I would be fine with old ranks but I think it is nostalgia pushing a lot of it. Off meta builds become viable again with the old rank system but unbalanced games would also be more common.
It's your own preference which one you would have more fun with.
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Not shafting your teammates? Not giving the Killer an easy win?
(Unless, of course, you're less effective than the replacement bot. I'm not saying you are or are not as I have no idea how good of a player you are but the bot is more effective than some survivors. If that is the case DC away but if not you're shafting your teammates and rewarding the person you're actually mad at).
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I mostly agree with the skill expression point. Lightburns were a lot of fun as well.
MMR, by definition, leads to optimization the tighter it is. If you want more than just meta to be encouraged or a viable playstyle you cannot have a tight MMR. That said, the MMR match-ups seem pretty loose a lot of games.
Reworks and Priorities: It is possible to balance the fun right out of a game. It is also possible to have unbalanced stuff suck the fun out of a game. It's a balancing act and it's subjective where that point is.
Content creators can have all the Twitch cosmetics they want.
Anonymous mode could potentially be used as she described but, as long as BHVR can track who the person is I'm not sure how it would be used that way.
The community point seems like a really, really bad take. If you're insulting a person after a game or calling them names you probably shouldn't be playing video games with other people until you grow up or take anger management lessons. Being immature or having anger issues isn't something that gives anyone the right to take it out on other people. If you wouldn't say it in real life to a person's face you're a hypocrite to do it online.
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I'm throwing in another vote for PTSD. DH hasn't been an issue for a long time now but dealing with it with hit validation and old COH was so miserable it's hard to put it into words.
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@arcaneGospel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695558#Comment_3695558
I usually bring a commodious toolbox with two charge addons to do the job myself, yeah. I really wish I could ever succeed in beckoning survivors off gens that aren't good to do early but what can you do, right?
Unfortunately pretty much. I've tried Better Together and it got ignored so much I just switched it out for Built to Last and got more success.
The other one that I find annoying is, on one of other builds, I bring Exponential and sometimes players will just lie on the ground in my boon radius and not even try to recover while the Killer chases someone else. It's like stand up already; if I just wanted to benefit myself in case of a slugging Killer I'd bring Unbreakable.
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That's why my best escape rate in solo is with a Deja Vu, Built to Last, Prove Thyself build (with OTR due to the ubiquitous tunneling and a Commodious with charge add-ons for BTL).
I'm mediocre at chase but I understand the meta strategy very well and stopping the three gen yourself works very well in preventing aggravation.
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If he two hooked everyone, sat in a corner, and let everyone go the player was either farming (which lowers MMR over the long run) or was a back fill into a lobby and took mercy. In either event that's not an indication of how strong (or weak in this case) Freddy really is.
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It's always Ash IV and it appeared on April 1. That speaks to me about what the intention of it probably is.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691209#Comment_3691209
Lol 1700 hours on the game and you're really trying to explain basic terms to me just because you're not happy with the response?
Bodyblocking the killer after you are unhooked is a tactic just like camping, tunnelling and slugging.
You want killers to be buffed yet you don't want survivors to be buffed in retrospect. Flashbangs getting a nerf also means that survivors who use them as a whole get a nerf, it's not a small nerf either as prior to this nerf flashbangs had a ridiculously small hitbox and the timing was severely unforgiving. Reverting the clipping of the killer swinging and hitting the person who unhooked and not the person being unhooked was never an issue. Nor was it an issue for tunnelling, in some aspects yes, but if a killer decides to unhook nothing changes this, even this silly no clip issue.
Also, to make this clear, IDK how low your MMR rating is but in mine the killer comes back at least 85% of the time, so there is virtually no such thing as "safe unhooking" for me.
Having X seconds of invincibility (something I've also suggested in the past on one of my previous anti tunnelling posts (around feb - march last year when tunnelling was in a serious prime time) would only be viable if it was more than 30 seconds, 10s is way too damn short, 10s is laughable as a killer, that doesn't deter anything, and if the other 2 coming into play also means the survivor has to equip them then it forces 2 perk slots to be used up, if they are given out for free then it also means killers are forced to use up X amount of perk slots also to help counter it. Neither of them work.
"A camping killer can always get an exchange against a single rescuer. That was my point." - this statement is also false, i've unhooked without being touched and being the only person coming to get the rescue against a camping killer and both escaped before.
Bodyblocking off the hook is a tactic. It's a tactic that should go the way of the MFT perk outside of endgame. @Xernoton is correct; I'd much rather have his suggestion so that tunneling is much harder to do.
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@Doxie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689992#Comment_3689992
Again...I'm being punished for preparing for totems where I will lack in gens or some other. For the other comment, I don't need to run devour hope .... I want to actually play. Chase them off gens, chess match....not just walk up, stab them once and feel good about really doing nothing. I don't get how that's fun...that's just lazy and not playing
Bring a map or Detective's Hunch until you learn the totem spawns. If you don't have Detective's Hunch available then use Small Game. Once you have the totem spawns down you'll figure out the issues with Devour Hope. If you don't want to do that you shouldn't call anyone who runs Devour Hope lazy (which they're not anyway; it's a high risk gamble that requires set-up and often just gets cleansed).
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689549#Comment_3689549
Oh I agree that it should be addressed in the game itself instead of perks.
I disagree the problem isn't solvable without harming anti tunnel mechanics though. Something as simple as zero collision makes the anti tunnel not only stronger but also prevents this abuse scenario. Win/win.
I'd add an aura or some other visible effect to show that basekit Endurance/OTR/DS is active and collision is off. The argument against it is that you can't bait a Killer into following somebody as a strategy and it shows who could be tunneled but the counter argument is that if you take OTR or DS and it deters the Killer from tunneling you it's done its job as intended and if you have to take a perk to avoid being tunneled you'll need to take it anyway regardless of a visual effect or not.
I can't remember if you had an opinion on my thread about anti-tunneling ideas but my suggestion had been slowing down gen progress while survivors are alive and speeding it up incrementally as survivors are killed to slow down the early game but make doing all gens easier as survivors are killed so getting all survivors or nearly all to death hook and then killing survivors would be more effective. That would reduce the effectiveness of tunneling and slow down the game so anti tunneling perks aren't as needed.
Another suggestion from the same thread (apologies to the suggestor; I don't remember who suggested it) was giving a pool of hook states so no survivor died until the 9th hook state. The effectiveness of tunneling would be severely diminished at that point. I like the suggestion; the reason why I prefer mine is because gen speed can be a major issue for Killers in higher MMR so a slowdown that encourages spreading hooks hits both and lessens the need to tunnel. They're both good suggestions in my opinion.
If tunneling is less effective then there will be less tunneling and that equates to less need to buff anti tunnel perks. That'll require some changes to mechanics though. In the meantime band aid changes such as reverting DS to 5 seconds are very much necessary.
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Congratulations!
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
But… why?
Do you play Stellaris?
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Pop and Pain Res are healthy for the game. They incentivize hooks. What isn't healthy is the stacking out of gen regression and blocking perks so the entire loadout is nothing but 4 slowdowns. Call of Brine and Overcharge were healthy as well individually. What wasn't healthy was stacking them together and especially with buffed Eruption.
I'd prefer a limit on how many perk categories people can take and then reverting some of these nerfs to different perks. With the exception of the long incapacitated status for Eruption the perks I mentioned are fine on their own. It's only stacking them all together that makes them too oppressive.
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@Commander_Nefarious said:
i intentionally didnt tunnel, and even used meme perks, and ended up with 2 kills because i stayed near the hook and then all 4 of them barrage me with hate and saying i camp at endgame, you cant win with these people so im playing however i need to win, cause it doesnt matter how you play
i swear im either playing with children or grown adult babies.
Your second paragraph is probably correct; you are playing with children or adult babies if they do that. You didn't tunnel, everyone got a chance to play and the match was a draw. They were either children or had the maturity level of children to complain about that.
I would just add a 'some' to your title to show that this isn't reflective of all survivors and that this isn't an 'us vs them' post.
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I like the perk. I'd love the perk if they buffed the regression percentage but also made it deactivate once a survivor dies so if you want full value you have to hook each survivor at least once before someone dies.
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NOED is the only crutch perk listed. You can see that by how much NOED Killers typically struggle in chase before NOED activates.
The other perks mentioned are not crutch perks and might be the opposite of crutch perks as they could be suboptimal. There is an opportunity cost for perks and every endgame perk taken is one less perk slot for Pop, Pain Resonance, Deadlock, etc which will delay the game more and generally give better results than the endgame perks.
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It's a risk and you might be better off with a map offering. The last time I saw more than one cake played (the survivors played three) the Killer (who was a Skull Merchant) brought a Midwich offering, hard tunneled one person at the very start and tried to slug for the 4K. If someone had brought a map offering instead the game would have lasted longer and the first survivor most likely would have probably gotten more BP. The remaining survivors may have gotten more BPs as well if someone had played an offering.
That's only one example and I have seen more chill Killers during the event but the majority have played similar to the SM I mentioned above. It feels frustrating to play a BP offering that benefits everyone and then not actually get to play because the Killer hard tunneled you or slugged you to death. It's not going to happen all the time but extreme events stick out more in people's minds so why play something that makes a bad experience (being tunneled and slugged for a 4K) even worse?
I do still play cakes if I have them but, if a particular set of matches is going poorly, I just switch to map offerings. Video game time is supposed to be fun and recreational so if I have to play something like a map offering to make it fun instead of frustrating I do and I completely understand other people doing the same.
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Playable yes. Enjoyable quite often no. It's possible it's just a regional thing (a previous thread about the differences between AU and NA discussed thus) but tunneling has at least doubled in incidence over the last few months and that has decreased the quality of matches.
I'd guesstimate my current escape rate at about 40% which isn't too far off from the 46% I had last time I measured it. What is significantly different, however, is the enjoyability of the matches. The matches are quite often as enjoyable as stubbing your toe since tunneling is the majority of games. I'm not super competitive and I don't really care about winning or losing; what I do care about is having my free time be enjoyable and that's what is lacking in many of my survivor matches.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685632#Comment_3685632
My vhs experience was limited, found myself right backbwith dbd. Still I stand by my comment and will add this; when I get tunneled none of my chances are removed.
Its on me to outplay the killer and use stealth in order to provide myself the oppurtunity for gen repairs. If/when the killer spots me, thats because I failed my 1st chance.
Its on me to use the map tiles and knowledge of the killer to escape as quickly as possible before injury. Getting hit means I failed, got a boost, and now must try again with a 2nd chase.
Once on the hook all "my chances" are gone until teammates can provide another. Getting chased after the unhook simply puts me back in the situation of relying on myself to escape before the down. Nothing has been taken from me, whether its a constant interaction with the killer or someone else gets a chase inbetween to break it up, all my chances to play remain.
Im just not seeing where the killers actions have removed any of my gameplay.
Okay, I'll try again and see if you understand. If this were an FPS, we were two equally skilled players, and my gun did 3X as much damage as your gun would you really be playing the game? The fact is that DbD is set up so that, barring a massive skill discrepancy, the Killer will outchase the survivor. That is how it should be as this is an asymmetrical game. In my analogy the Killer is now the person with the gun that does 3x as much damage.
An FPS isn't the best comparison but, for a closer one, you sound exactly like all of the Teens that argued against Monster buffs in VHS. Here, however, you're arguing for tunneling, which is an unhealthy play style, to be perpetuated.
Saying it's an issue with skill is completely false as that would only be true if Killer and Survivor were equally matched in chase. They're not by design; the Killer is the person with the much better gun in my FPS example. Just like the bloodbath that happened with 6.1 and the people who had been crutching on pre 6.1 DH Killers are crutching on tunneling. The game mechanics favour Killer in chase.
If you're going to argue it's just skill then, to be valid, Survivors would need to have a 4.6 m/s movement rate and Killers would need to be able to vault at the same speed as Survivors. They're not. It's not evenly matched. Having game mechanics favour one side is not an even match and cannot give a direct comparison.
I'm not saying that they should be evenly matched; I pretty expressly said the Killer should beat the Survivor in chase. If not, the game wouod be broken. However, since the ability of the Killer to tunnel is much greater than that of an equally skilled Survivor to avoid getting tunneled then, for the health of the game and so people can play the game, tunneling should be nuked from orbit and Killers can then receive buffs as needed for BHVR it hit its desired kill rate.
Tunneling is unhealthy and unfun. It's not an unfair expectation for people to expect they can actually play a game they log into which they can't do anymore than if they were the Monster getting spawn camped in VHS or the FPS player with the far weaker gun.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684575#Comment_3684575
Cant say I see any tactics that remove a players ability to play the game, maybe body blocking but thats a punishable hostage situation. Even a hard tunnel at the start doesnt remove the survivor's chances since it simply groups those chance back to back. Failing repeatedly is not evidence of a lack of opportunity to succeed.
Being tunneled from the start does remove the player's ability to play the game. If you wish you can add as intended. If you played VHS before it went under from treating Monster the same way. Unless, of course, you're arguing using the Monster noise after banishment to spawn kill Monsters allowed Monsters to play the game.
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I bring OTR all the time. It often helps me to enable other survivors to escape but not always (note I said other survivors). I consider it mandatory on my survivor builds.
That doesn't change the fact that tunneling at the current level of occurrence it's at is unhealthy and makes the game significantly less fun. DbD is at its most enjoyable when played with multiple hooks which is a minority of games now.
So, in my opinion, nuke tunneling from orbit, give Killers incentives to spread hooks and punish Killers that tunnel.
The game would be better if tunneling were very much a suboptimal strategy and spreading hooks was more common.
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I had a game where I didn't see two survivors for 90% of the match and the other two were in my face the other 90%. The first one in my face died on the fifth hook and the second one died on the sixth hook. This apparently made me a "tunneling piece of trash" because I guess I was supposed to ignore the two survivors in my face that I alternated hooks on in order to go find survivors hiding somewhere on pre rework Red Forest on Hag. The other two never tried for an unhook, didn't show themselves, etc.
I also had one game where I let the survivors go and I carried someone whom I had downed in endgame to the exit gates and they wiggled free when I was about at the exit gate. I opened the gate and went to the other exit to see items dropped from the other survivors. In post game chat though the person who wiggled free then berated me saying they kicked my butt, I was a terrible Killer, etc. I asked them if they saw I passed hooks while carrying their on death hook self to the exit gates and they said they got out since I was so terrible, etc. I then pointed out I literally opened the exit gate for them and they continued like that. Other than carrying them to the exit gate and opening the gate for them the only way to make it plainer I wasn't trying to kill them would have been to do the gens for them which isn't possible as a Killer so I just left the argument.
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People like that can be very annoying but if they're not smart enough and/or don't have enough game sense to realize that you're 2 hooking everyone on purpose they're not anybody you should take even remotely seriously.
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Thanks for pointing that out. It does make sense it's a regional thing. I play in NA and most of my games are how you describe. It used to be roughly 20 to 25% of the time but now it's definitely the majority of matches. I'd say maybe about 1 in 5 survivor games are enjoyable right now which doesn't bode well.
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@DemonDaddy said:
I dont get the emphasis some survivors put on the # of gens and how that should dictate the killers actions. Its never a bad time to use effective tactics.
It's a response to poor game design. Personally I'm not going to fault players for using the most efficient tactic available but I will call for changes if it substantially decreases the fun for one side. It's not the fault of the player to expect that if they lose they at least had the opportunity to play.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683807#Comment_3683807
Because I wanted to bring it up.
I agree with your anecdote. Just today I ran across one where the survivors bought a 6th year cake, a 7th year cake and party streamers. The SM decided to hard tunnel at 5 gens and tried to go for a 4 person slug. I've seen that with other Killers but with other Killers it's a mix between Killers that play like that and Killers who don't. For SM though I can't remember the last time I saw a SM that didn't play like that.
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I've seen that happen when using a Killer I farm with and have no intention of killing anyone. There are a lot of players that just give up quickly.
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I just hook them and move on to the next survivor. If they want to feel like they got value from their perk go ahead. It's just a game.
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@Clee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680366#Comment_3680366
Damn, that escape rate is nice! I'm probably at 25%, admittedly I am a team player, which often leads me to take heat and dying to keep others in the game
Thanks but that's with that build though. Overall I get about 35 to 40% but I switch builds up a lot to keep things more interesting. If I only stuck to stronger builds on a consistent basis then my MMR would go up and my weaker but also fun builds would die too fast for me to have fun.
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There are a few factors involved that make it feel different.
One of those is MMR. The game is more balanced now but that doesn't mean it's more fun. By definition, the more MMR comes into play the more meta the tactics have to be to compete. The stricter the MMR, the more intense the match. Ranks were a lot more imbalanced but that also gave more room for non meta and meme builds to do something other than get stomped. If you're a survivor and switch from a meta to non meta build you'll get trashed until your MMR adjusts back down and the same applies to Killers.
Another factor is that Killers only have so many ways to slow down the game: gen regression, gen pressure, quick downs, camping, slugging and tunneling. Of those the most unhealthy for gameplay overall is camping, slugging and tunneling and camping has been nerfed. Slugging and tunneling are still really strong.
Gen regression, on the other hand, has been nerfed. There are only a few Killers that can cover a map effectively and the rest had to 3 gen (which was also nerfed since SM and the Erupting Call of Overbrine meta made it too strong) but now 3 genning is less effective. Quick downs, against an evenly matched group of survivors and a Killer, is not happening unless you're Nurse or Blight for the most part.
So, out of all the strategies, the only ones that remain really strong for the roster overall are tunneling and slugging. What further complicates it though is that protection against tunneling has been overall nerfed with DS taking a hit and Killers have overall lost incentives to not tunnel and to spread hooks. Ranks caused more spreading of hooks since you could hit a higher rank with 8 hooks 0 kills than you could with 4 hooks 4 kills and as a visual representation it was an incentive. Old BBQ helped with the spreading of hooks due to the BP incentive. While the incentive, in my opinion, should have been decoupled from perks it shouldn't have been eliminated but rather made basekit.
So we now have a more competitive atmosphere because that's what MMR encourages, less incentives for the Killer to not tunnel, survivors can't protect themselves as well if they do get tunneled, and the other ways a Killer can slow down a game have been nerfed overall but tunneling is still really strong.
Is it any wonder that tunneling and meta strategies have increased? The game is more competitive and less relaxed now than in the past. Depending on your definition of fun, that might not be a good thing.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680612#Comment_3680612
For Nurse, super boost the amount of line of sight breakers, and add lots of fire barrels or other things that make obnoxious noises. For Blight, super boost the broken collision objects, and the special loops that Blight can't slide on at all.
There are things BHVR could do, regardless if you think they are perfect. And it's certainly better than doing nothing.
I think it would be helpful and currently sending someone at the soft cap to somebody 200 or 300 points lower (or more) in MMR or more is essentially throwing chum at sharks with the almost infinitesimal chance somebody that much lower in MMR has to win. Just because something is imperfect doesn't mean it wouldn't be an improvement and your idea sounds like an improvement.
However, BHVR did originally loosen up MMR because they received so many complaints about how intense every game was when it was much stricter match making. Your suggestion might lead to that so I don't know if BHVR would welcome it but the lower MMR player in that scenario would have a better match.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680601#Comment_3680601
...mate, entertaining as it is watching you 2 bicker like children, they aint being jealous, your the one whos gone all defensive about it
"Well buy me some equipment to record then. Until then don't worry about what I do."
I'm trying to entertain to distract me from the time distortion I went into and got an extra 2,000 escapes as solo survivor in the last hour. I also did a 3,000 Clown win streak perkless, add on less, with Clown having emphysema and being genetically crossed with Maggie Simpson so my Clown fell on his face every third step. I almost had to stay awake for it but Killer is so easy I took a nap halfway through.
No proof though; my computer is good enough for time travel but can't handle recording a video.