TheSubstitute
TheSubstitute
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@Nicholas said:
I'm going to give it a try but I'm not super optimistic about the changes. I got to experience it on PTB and tunneling and camping is so powerful. The timing to get off a rescue with a face camper is extremely narrow, twice I got grabbed in a weird way. I baited the hit and then immediately initiated the rescue and it was successful. But in the same millisecond that the person was dropping to the ground my character hunched over and I was grabbed lol The 5 seconds of BT and speed were negligible, and The Killer is highly incentivized to go after a newly rescued survivor after five generators have been completed. I definitely feels like they are trying to placate killers, but people often forget that you need four times as many survivors as killers and the conversation is always, but people don't want to play killer. You also have to consider the fact that maybe people aren't going to want to play survivor.
If, after five gens have been completed, the Killer doesn't go after a newly unhooked survivor isn't the Killer purposely not trying to kill any survivors?
I can definitely see, and agree, that Killers can be better off to split pressure quite often when gens are still up but, if a Killer doesn't go after a newly unhooked survivor in the endgame, how are they supposed to get any kills?
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@Nos37 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061873#Comment_3061873
It's not like Dead Hard is leaving and taking half the pallets on Gideon Meat Plant with it
Due to all the safe pallets I think the scariest Killer BHVR could come up with would be called the Woodchipper. Definitely S-tier for sure.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061833#Comment_3061833
Then it’s more than 50 secs
How does an extra 10 seconds per generator translate to more than 50 seconds if two or three survivors do gens at a time? Is only one generator allowed to progress at once?
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061617#Comment_3061617
Because killers have 50 more seconds to camp?
Is only one survivor allowed on gens at one time?
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BBQ and Chili will probably see a huge decrease in use with the BP bonus gone. Artist, Spirit, Blight, Nurse and possibly Huntress will still see benefit. Sadako and Freddy might get some use. Darkness Revealed synergizes far better than BBQ with Dredge.
BBQ and Chili, though, is just outclassed by the other information perks for the other Killers. Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed, A Nurse's Calling, etc will show you where survivors near you are which is more important for low mobility killers. 40 meters is a long distance for low mobility Killers.
For gen defence, Tinkerer and Discordance are better than BBQ and Chili for telling you where to go.
I can see BBQ being used as a secondary info perk but then it still needs to compete with chase perks and gen defence perks for that slot so, unless the Killer is one of the Killers it's still really good for, I'll probably stop playing around it. I don't think it'll be seen that much.
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059071#Comment_3059071
i came to the forum in the hope of an doctor main or a games tester, guess the killer is so dead that no one cared..
I have included a picture of all the Doctor mains so that you can find them more readily. They're currently talking to all the Clown mains as well.
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@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061217#Comment_3061217
You will be surprised.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YRHPVWB3GBJX/image.png
It's 11% (and it's for only one kobe for three attempts, missing mathematical chances you'll get 2 or even 3, but it adds less than a percent so basically it's still 11%).
Kinda near 12%, you know. Still don't wan't to try?
It's only worth it in niche situations such as you're hooked and the other survivors are all slugged. Otherwise you'll probably just second stage yourself and diminish your chances of winning.
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@Rizzo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061127#Comment_3061127
Games with a DC (or more) are not considered when collecting data.
Thanks for letting us know. That clears up that.
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If they removed the games where a survivor DCs from the aggregate data I'm going to bet the kill rate would be significantly less than 50%.
Ragequitting doesn't hurt the Killer; it makes their job easier and gives them more BP. It does severely hurt the other survivors though.
Regardless, BHVR shouldn't balance around a 3v1; they should balance around a 4v1. Killers shouldn't be punished because some survivor players shaft their team by doing a rage DC.
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@LeeONE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059981#Comment_3059981
What about nurse mains that i mentioned? Do you think they wont be at top mmr while winning 90% of the games?
If they're at top MMR then they are facing top MMR survivors. I'm sure Team Oracle, Ayrun at 96 escapes in a row, and WimaTV at 350 escapes in a row actually faced some Nurses. They did it. There will always be outliers with higher escape or kill rates than the average. In any event, you're not at top MMR and I'm not at top MMR so neither of us can say what happens at top MMR.
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@LeeONE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059964#Comment_3059964
This doesn't make sense, if i beat, i good, if not, i bad, what about if i am only one that managed to escape, maybe even hiding while game? Am i better?
What about if i get farmed, tunneled, being left or chased for 5 gens while 3 teammates escape, am i worse?
If the Nurse is consistently getting 3 or 4K at your MMR they will go up to a higher MMR. If not, then some other survivors were able to escape against that Nurse but you couldn't.
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@LeeONE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059957#Comment_3059957
Even if we will take that there are more swf than solo, does it mean its impossible to win as killer? How does otz (and others) had such high killrate in his challenge? How does a lot of content creators have overall high winrate?
'Usain Bolt can run fast. I should be able to run fast too.' Is that your argument? I'm not as good as Otz and neither is the vast majority of the playerbase. It's a mistake to assume that killer main streamers represent the player base.
Besides, as I mentioned above, if you can't beat a Nurse that just means the match making was flawed (too much of an MMR difference) or that the Nurse player you faced has been beaten by other survivors at your MMR but you, for whatever reason, had more of a struggle against that Nurse. If not, the Nurse would be a higher MMR.
That's fine. Just because Player A beat Player B who beat Player C that does not mean that Player A would automatically beat Player C. People have different playstyles. What it doesn't mean is that Nurse should be nerfed because you have a harder time against Nurse.
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@Gratxla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059872#Comment_3059872
Whos "we"?
Your experience doesnt Match the others
We refers to solo queue casuals who have taken the time to learn Nurse's game mechanics and how she plays in practice so that it's easier to avoid Nurse. If you're facing Nurses you can't beat that means either other survivors at your MMR have beaten Nurse but you can't (which is a not every player is as good against each Killer issue) or the Nurse match up is a matchmaking error.
Neither of those implies a problem with Nurse.
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@LeeONE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059940#Comment_3059940
No, i claim that high mmr survivors are not always swf, because if you were high mmr killer and only swf could reach high mmr, then your queue time would last ages.
A better assumption would probably be that the coordination and information advantages of being a SWF allows them to hit high MMR more and there are more SWFs in high MMR than solos.
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So your claim is that high MMR survivors are made up of solo queue casuals instead of SWFs? Something seems quite wrong with your assumption.
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I'm a solo queue casual. I escape against Nurse a lot. Solo queue casuals aren't going against these super Nurses you describe; we're up against low and mid tier Nurses. If we end up against high tier Nurses that's a matchmaking issue and any high tier Killer would wreck us anyway. Sorry, your logic is flawed.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055546#Comment_3055546
DS is literally the most counterplayable perk. In order to get hit with it, you need to chase down a target that has just been unhooked, down them within a minute, without them doing anything to help the survivors, and then you need to pick them up.
So you have the following counterplay options:
1) Go for someone else.
2) Stalk them until they do something that disables DS.
3) Don't press spacebar.
DS requires an astronomical amount of work from the killer to fire. What you are arguing here is that the killer has zero accountability, and should be able to hard tunnel into a build with two or three anti-tunnel perks, without being punished.
Guess what? 90% of your problem goes away if you just go for the unhooker, instead of the unhooked.
Now, OTR is absolutely worse for both killer and survivor gameplay, but DS deserved some serious buffs to offset the EGC nerf. It's one of the worst perks in the game already, and it's up for a double nerf. There'll be zero reason to run it, even if OTR didn't exist.
Inconceivable!
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I'd pick Zarina over Mikaela. New killers can't track well even with scratch marks so the new survivor would have a better chance of getting away. Mikaela's perks requiring finding a dull totem and most new survivors don't know what a dull totem is let alone the spawn locations.
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The best way to notice how prevalent it is is to run Surveillance. However, my preference is only tell the survivors I'm likely to play with they can do another gen. Leave the survivors I play against when I play Killer in blissful ignorance (well, it's blissful for me that they don't go to other gens anyway).
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Those are some pretty good ideas in this thread. On another note, the whole 'but SWF' argument falls apart to me because it assumes that more than a small portion of the Killers are even viable against a high MMR SWF. Other than Artist, who was the most recent Killer put out that could contest high MMR SWFs? Spirit?
The Thing would be super fun to play as. That sounds like a pretty important factor.
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Why shouldn't survivors with a good reaction time be able to use it as a counter?
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I'm 100% in favour of survivors being able to kill each other. Couldn't walk 10 meters to unhook me while the Killer was on the other side of the map? Bam! Spent more than half the game in a locker? Bam! Tried to farm unhooks on me and never even attempted to take a protection hit? Bam!
Now that would make my games a lot more satisfying and the survivor kill rate would definitely go up.
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I've maxed out on Objectives, Boldness and Altruism while the game is going on but never in all three in the same game, virtually never in two categories and it happens but it's not common in one.
The bump to 10K will help but I don't think any survivor games will hit the 40K. The only times I've seen 32K survivors is when I've been farming while playing Killer (and I did it once as a survivor with, once again, a farming Killer).
The extra points might encourage more Killers to not camp though as camping as a Killer is a great way to tank your BP gain and that might indirectly help survivors. Hard to say at this point.
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I'm 100% in agreement with DS getting two uses per match and getting rid of the skill checks with DS deactivating in end game. If someone 59 second DS's me they just wasted close to a minute to stun me for a few seconds; thus taking the survivor out of doing anything to help their team win for the majority of it.
BHVR also wants to disincentivize tunneling and camping and two uses would help. If you're worried about it, slug the survivor and chase the unhooker. That way, three sets of hands are for sure off gens (one doing a pick up, one slugged and one in chase).
That way, it's a more satisfying gaming experience for everyone and BHVR's job is to make the game entertaining for everyone; not just the people in one of the roles.
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If only I were able to LOS the Trickster with walls, trees or moving from room to room I'd be able to delay the chase. If only these features were present on maps instead of maps just being wide open areas with nothing to hide behind then I could plan to do gens around LOS blockers and weave in and out of trees to slow down my laceration meter. If only...
No, seriously, the Trickster is a far weaker version of the Huntress. The only thing that's unhealthy about the Trickster's power is that the only way to improve it would make the Trickster a complete clone of the Huntress instead of a completely watered down version. There's more than enough ways to slow down the Trickster already to make a chase last a long time. This is an asymmetrical game; if the Killer can't catch a survivor eventually the balance is broken and a survivor can slow down the Trickster enough that gens can get done. The only issue is that the Trickster needs a buff that's hard to do without making the Trickster even more like Huntress.
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Hatch An Escape would like a word with you (unlock the Hatch with a key twice). I got Six Feet Under on my second try with a basement Trapper. I'm literally past over 100 attempts on Hatch An Escape. With the change to Hatch, Hatch An Escape became worthy of being mentioned as part of the Ninth Circle in Dante's Inferno.
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Has anyone taken a look at this yet?
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Die hundreds of times in a vain attempt to actually get it. At least that's been my experience with 'Hatch An Escape'. The worst part is that, if the exit gates are open, the other survivors won't just frickkin leave so you can at least try during EGC.
After a few dozen rounds of that I started hoping BHVR would give moris to survivors so I could turn the game into Grand Theft Auto if the other survivors won't just go out the exit gate.
I despise that challenge.
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Killers: Dredge, Artist and a three way tie between Huntress, Nurse and Twins
Survivors: Claire Redfield, Mikaela and Kate
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I do this quite often with Artist. As soon as my Artist games begin to feel like they should be preceded by a training montage with skipping rope, guzzling energy drinks and 'The Eye Of The Tiger' playing in the background I farm with the next 5 to 10 groups to get my games back into the non sweaty level.
Unless I'm BMed or have to do a Kill 4 survivors in one trial challenge nearly always let the last survivor go.
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@LeeONE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3052509#Comment_3052509
So my assumption that I am at the bottom of mmr because the survivors i am playing with hides in locker as soon as they hear heartbeat, is that good assumption?
Hard to say. I know I can see definite differences between the MMRs of survivors. When I'm playing survivor and my Tome challenges (eg. usually Hatch An Escape) means I die a lot I see a lot of all hands off gens, unhooks become more of an RNG than a given, hiding in corners, etc.
To bust out of that I generally go full meta (the only meta perk I normally run is DS) until I'm back in an MMR where survivors will actually try to work together for saves.
Maybe that will work for you?
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@KerJuice said:
I would love to see a full match of these advocates juking a gawd tier Starstruck/Infectious fright nurse. No body blocking. Just witnessing them using her “counterplay.” Actual GOOD nurse players with over 1.5K hours.
Why? That's a small percentage of the playerbase and more people than that like to play her. Besides, if we're going to balance around a small portion of the playerbase why not balance around Team Oracle or WimaTV with 383 escapes in a row. I'm assuming they played at least one or two Nurses and still lost. If we're going to balance around a small percentage, let's make Killers able to get a 50% kill rate on them.
Or we could just admit that balancing around a small percentage is a great way to ensure that the game is incredibly not fun for most people.
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@Nikatara69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050733#Comment_3050733
Wow, OK, how u can explain that after tunneling match some off them trying to abuse me in DMs on discord or Twitch???
Sending post game salt is a behaviour that is separate from tunneling. You're conflating the two which is wrong. I see a lot of tunneling killers and I've received salt from a Killer a grand total of one time over the last year. I also receive salt from survivors about two to three times a month. The only thing I can say is that they were tilted from a video game.
Trying to conflate separate behaviors into one isn't helping your argument.
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@Raccoon said:
As an aside, sometimes I worry about getting sent to THE LOW MMR ZONE when I'm throwing for 'tomies over homies.'
I would upvote you a dozen times for the phrase 'tomies over homies' if I could. I can't believe how many games I've died from trying to complete Rift challenges.
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@Nikatara69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050262#Comment_3050262
Listen, I don't want to be one off "them" unhappy tunneler, who doesn't have happy real life, you know.
Just a hint: Attempting to get a constructive discussion or people to listen to you seriously generally precludes making facetious comments. Tunneling in a video game doesn't say anything about the real life of the tunneler; trying to make that connection makes you come across as just salty.
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Tunneling and camping is also a trap. It's too effective of a strategy until it's not because it placed the Killer in an MMR they shouldn't be in.
The arguments that tunneling and camping are necessary are only situationally true; if you don't tunnel and camp you'll be at an MMR where you don't need to tunnel and camp. You just need to be willing to lose games you could have won if you had tunneled and camped.
That's the hard part since most people playing want to win and, especially if the survivors are teabagging and being toxic, it's hard to forego the short term satisfaction in exchange for keeping your MMR at a reasonable level.
Fortunately, the devs do realize that and are trying to shake it up. The initial days are going to be hard for a lot of people in both roles since a lot of players have been using tunneling, camping, NOED and the current iteration of Dead Hard to get themselves at a higher MMR than they would be without those perks and strategies but I think it'll lead to more enjoyable games in the long run.
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Jeff Bezos is the Entity. Ask anyone who worked at Amazon.
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@Archive512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049151#Comment_3049151
usually they arent terrible, but recently i dont know what it is but every time they have just been sat on the hook. ive been camped out of a game 4 times in a row tonight so thats enough for me, i'll play something else or watch a movie or smth.
95% of the Huntresses I run across do that. I have no idea why. At least it gives us a chance to escape. Then, every so often, I run across a non tunneling or camping Huntress and then my best chance of surviving is generally Hatch. Huntress has an amazing chase power.
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You've seen a non-tunneling Huntress? For real?
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It's because they would prefer to go against a facecamping Bubba and you ruined their chances by picking Clown.
No, seriously I have no idea why anybody would hate on Clown. Clown's one of the weakest Killers in the game and unless you have a phobia about being chased by someone with emphysema there are Killers that are far worse to face.
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@Viridyan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3044594#Comment_3044594
I'm not here to argue. If you get facecamped, you deserve it for being bad. Whole point is to not get sacrificed. Be mad at yourself. :)
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3044875#Comment_3044875
A win is a win whether it's deserved or not. If every survivor DCs, it's a win. If everyone dies on 3rd hook, it's a win. If everyone dies on 1st hook, it's a win. Hell, some killers are happy with ONE sacrifice. Who made you the referee? You don't get to decide what a win condition is. Keep telling yourself whatever you need to. If a facecamping killer isn't good and you die to them, what does that make you?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3044885#Comment_3044885
I'm not ashamed to say I've been outlooped, outplayed, and outsmarted by a slippery eel of a survivor. Some people are just good. Others get facecamped.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3044878#Comment_3044878
Good survivors never get hooked. Great survivors never go down. Exceptional survivors never get hit. Where do you fall?
Your post made me think of this.
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It sounds more like you got outplayed or your team outplayed themselves by letting the Killer get a good 3 or 4 gen set-up. There's a macro strategy as well and part of good survivor play is not letting the Killer get an easily defensible 3 or 4 gen.
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I'm looking forward to the OTR buff as well. It should make tunneling a lot less effective and incentivize going for the unhooker. I'm thinking of pairing OTR with DS and then bringing BT and Kindred just to help out my teammates and see how that goes.
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Win or lose I always end up with a lot of BP when playing against Legion.
I find playing as Legion fun running around going stabby stabby and vaulting pallets. I generally play as Frank if I want to pip, Susie to farm, Julie very occasionally if I'm undecided what to do and then there's some other guy but even the other members of Legion forgot his name.
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Roleplay as a Weeping Angel from Doctor Who. You can't move if anyone can see you.
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Complaining about the Hatch not having counterplay kind of gives me the same energy as standing around in the exit gates. You won already; take the win gracefully
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3047375#Comment_3047375
Don't say gaslight for one hour challenge. Go!
Almost there!
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@drakolyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3047389#Comment_3047389
Toxic intentions are toxic intentions.
Also i disagree with the fact that i get more toxic killers since the past months than survivors. So its a thing that everyone experiences different.
And of course, since killers often defend their actions, even tho its toxic (i mean, just because the guy was annoying, doesnt make it better that you are toxic too...), is kinda meh.
And my point was, you cant say "PUNISH TBAGGING", when killer can do toxic things aswell and thats okay? Sorry no.
That's a fair point but I'm not saying punish teabagging. It can't be punished because people need to be able to crouch to avoid attacks. The most I could see is if BHVR put a half second delay on it so it looked stupid.
I think BHVR should do something about toxicity such as teabagging, hitting on hook, etc and unnecessary actions such as that as it does drive newer people away from sticking with the game. I'd love to get some of my friends into the game but the minority of the community that is unapologetically toxic drives them away.
My point was simply toxicity is a spectrum though. If I were to rate from most toxic to least I would go slurs and insults in post game chat to teabagging to a tie between flashlight clicking and hitting on hook. Someone else might have a different order and that's perfectly fine and valid; I don't get to dictate other people's emotional reactions.
They're all unnecessary and toxic though as the only reason why they're done is to upset another person so, yeah, I'm in favour of all those behaviours being treated as such.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3047389#Comment_3047389
t-bagging in dbd is not even t-bagging, it's spam crouching, actual t-bagging is doing it ontop of the dead body of your opponent, and comparing either of these things to actual t-bagging is comical and in totally bad faith as you are fully aware they aren't the same things at all, what an embarrassing comment to make.
Not really; I'd find it embarrassing to be totally cool with using a gesture whose root is simulating a sexual act performed upon a person without consent but you do you.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3047375#Comment_3047375
I'm offended?
The fact you made this argument means you truly don't believe that t-bagging is offensive as you're implying I shouldn't find anything on the forums offensive, you've killed off your own argument if you wish to go that route.
also again, not offended just humoured by the dbd community who are the only ones who could find spam crouching offensive
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UL299ZH16G0P/dbd-dead-by-daylight.gif
Nah,I'm just pointing out you don't get to choose what other people are offended by. It's literally not your call and you're the one who said you're planning on changing your behaviour due to a forum post.
Also, that's not an offensive picture or what I consider teabagging; it's people having fun.