TheSubstitute
TheSubstitute
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Gen repair perks, toolboxes with Built To Last, more survivors focusing on gens since it's harder to bully the Killer without Dead Hard.
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What @Akumakaji said. Also, equip Deja Vu. It shows the three generators in the closest proximity to each other; not you. Unless a gen is on a different floor or otherwise a pain to patrol, hammer the gen in the middle. Repeat. If successful, you'll never see a 3 gen that's good for the Killer.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088217#Comment_3088217
Yeah but YOU'RE not playing the survivor. You can give an opinion, but it isn't supported with the played experience survivor players have.
I do play solo and I agree with him. Don't get me wrong; people who are having their MMR adjusted through loss after loss since the perks they used to help them don't work the same way anymore are having a terrible time and further things could be brought in such as a 10 second extension to hook timers at each stage but I really like the patch. DCing survivors and survivors suiciding on hook has a far more negative impact on the survivor experience than anything the patch did.
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@Laluzi said:
What perks are problematic at this point? Just hook people, dude. You can't complain about getting tbagged if you're going to turn around and BM survivors as well.
As for hatch, that's usually why killers down people and carry them to hatch - to make sure the survivor knows they're being nice and they didn't just GeT OUtPLayEd. Meg had no idea you were allowing her to get hatch if you didn't blatantly allow it; it just looked like you made a poor decision.
True and the OP should recognize that the teabagging Meg is only representative of that one teabagging Meg but I do understand why the OP is annoyed.
A few months ago I had a David with No Mither so I dropped them a few times (4 or 5) and only hooked them twice since I assume anyone running No Mither is probably doing an achievement or Rift challenge. The David teabagged me at the Hatch and said gg ez in chat.
I just responded that we were on the Game and he left on death hook through Hatch with three gens up so there was really nothing to be proud of.
I was annoyed and I think that's understandable. For good survivors it should be apparent many times when the Killer is easing up. I don't blame the OP for being annoyed with the Meg.
The fallacy I think the OP is making is generalizing the Meg to all survivors. That and the last paragraph in the original post is pretty cringeworthy.
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@Taxman232 said:
I know everyone is sick of hearing about the meta-rework but I feel as a console solo queue survivor I have sone legitimate complaints. Of the five games I have played post-update i have gone against 4 tunnel and camp killers and a thana edge-lord legion with no survivors escaping any of these games.
Behaviour have gone too far with the survivor nerf and killer buff. It is not fun to sit on a gen longer and have few perks at your disposal to extend a chase. I dont use DH so dont care about this but the rework to Iron Will and SpineChill are huge.
The Spinechill change makes the game less accessible for hearing and vision impaired players without an actual solution being provided by Behaviour - this is not ok.
The new skins are fine but the Devs really need to refocus themselves on rebalancing this game because as it stands it is unbalanced, not fun and not accessible.
I've found that builds centered around OTR and SB work very well against tunneling. I did throw in DS for a bit but I never got to use DS (except for once when I let a Pig down me specifically for DS) since I wasn't downed quickly enough the second time to use it.
Some other perks I've found that help when I experimented with different builds are Deliverance, Deja Vu (for mainly preventing a 3 gen but also taking 4.5 seconds off of each gen), Prove Thyself, Built to Last with really good medkits and, in case slugging seemed to be an issue in games, Unbreakable with Soul Guard.
Hopefully if you try those out you'll find greater success combating tunneling and camping Killers. It worked for me so I'm hoping it could help you out as well.
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I personally like Prove Thyself, Deja Vu, Built to Last, OTR abd ideally with a Commodious Toolbox with 56 charges (32+ 16 from yellow + 8 from brown) for my gen build. 5% from Deja Vu, 15% from Prove Thyself, 50% from the toolbox for 56 charges and then you can recharge the toolbox a couple of times with Built To Last.
When the pressure is on you can do gens super fast. The downside is that Franklin's hurts this build badly, ideally it has a green item which you may have or not and you don't have any chase perks to help you (unless you consider OTR to be a chase perk) but if you get left on a gen you're a gen repair machine.
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@thisisntmax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082758#Comment_3082758
I play for fun and to give people MMR they don't deserve so I don't have to play with them and can go lower and lower and mess about as much as I want to. :)
Can you at least get the gates open and everyone out and then sacrifice yourself to the Killer so you don't shaft the other survivor players?
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/336417/survivors-are-literally-throwing-games
This really sounds like an attempt to throw wool over the developers eyes...
"Killer's weren't over-buffed, but instead, every single survivor player has hatched an insidious plan to throw games!"
It's not a planned, deliberate attempt to throw games; it's like just upset people trying to throw games.
I do like it because it is possible to escape and you can actually do more against tunneling and camping killers than you could pre-patch if you bring OTR (and possibly an exhaustion perk. Also, if you don't want to rely on other people that much Deliverance).
The people who DC or suicide on hook are just hurting their teammates and not accomplishing anything. BHVR doesn't include matches with DCs in their kill rates and I'm pretty sure they can figure out someone who dies on first hook in 20 seconds is throwing the game.
The only thing that is being accomplished is making the game harder for the other survivors who are trying. In the case of a DC or suicide on hook, I don't blame BHVR or the Killer for the less pleasurable game; I blame the DCer.
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I've been doing better against tunnelers and campers with OTR. I last longer and I've gotten escapes where pre-patch the Killer would have gotten a 4K.
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I have noticed an uptick and I really, really hope so. One of the largest problems pre-patch is that survivors wouldn't stay on gens. When hooked I would often see two people crouching being scared to go for a save and the one person doing gens leaving since they thought nobody was going for a save. I appreciate the concern for my welfare but just risk the hook trade so we can all get out. Three people is better than zero people for a hook save but it's still too much.
Another issue I also frequently saw was multiple survivors harassing the Killer and going for flashlight saves. Stop clowning on the Killer and just do a freaking gen since I want to escape instead of bullying the Killer.
Also, the most efficient way to escape is for each survivor to do a different gen while paying attention to potentially three genning but, since it's more BP or comfort or whatever reason, survivors group up on gens. I do it as well for the BP so I'm not criticizing; just stating and Prove Thyself turns that into a good strategy
Since Prove Thyself actually incentivizes survivors into doing their actual objective I really, really hope more people bring it.
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So you often get bad teammates in solo is what you're saying?
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I play 4 to 6 games of solo daily and I think it's fine.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078847#Comment_3078847
OTR helping with getting camped makes a lot more sense then it being "anti-tunnel", since it actually does help a lot in those scenarios, the problem being, why run OTR when BT already does what it does but better? the 10seconds of extra movement speed and endurance is a lot more practical and useful then 80 seconds of endurance, and being silent and invisible to aura reading, those last 2 parts just encourage survivors to play like immersed blendettes for 80 seconds, any quite frankly, anything that encourages playing like a immersed blendette for any length of time should just not exist
I get chased for longer than BT lasts if the Killer doesn't smack me straight off the hook and I don't have to chance the unhooker having BT or not having BT. If they have it great; it'll help me get away faster. If not, I van still get away.
Those people you're describing aren't using it effectively; OTR is to help you get away or buy enough time to do gens. If a survivor is not being chased they need to do gens (after bring healed if that's the right call). The survivors you describe are throwing the game in favour of the Killer and should eventually lose enough their MMR drops.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078730#Comment_3078730
Wait, why is the nerf to Iron Will relevant? OTR gives you the old Iron Will effect, you don't need to pair it with IW. You already have it.
As for your example, if they chase you the perk is not wasted because it's already done its job. It's already prevented you from going down immediately, and it's given you the opportunity to play out a regular chase with the killer, albeit with Deep Wound. That's if they hit you straight away, too, which isn't a guarantee; most killers are gonna wait out the five second basekit Endurance, which means there's a decent chance you've reached a loop and can eke out a little more time before that hit even connects.
Yes, the post-hit sprint is shorter, but that doesn't stop this from being a far better anti-tunnel perk than DS ever was. It actually lets you play out the chase normally, instead of just losing the chase and getting to stun the killer briefly.
This patch did not buff tunnelling. That take is very very silly.
What you countered with your argument is also what I don't understand from some people's takes. OTR is not supposed to make you invulnerable from tunneling; it's supposed to give you a chance for a second chase when someone tries to tunnel and camp you.
On that, it succeeds admirably. Before, it was get hit nearly immediately off hook. Now, it's if I get hit I still have a chance to get away with a built in IW and I get to do something. The odds of escaping a tunneler off hook just increased significantly.
I really don't understand either why some people are claiming tunneling was buffed this patch.
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I ran into a few lag switchers. There was also one person who got distance when they Dead Harded.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3078602#Comment_3078602
A great anti-tunneling perk would be pre 6.1.0 DS, current OTR is laughably bad in comparison to that
even when combined with current DS, OTR does not do enough to discourage tunneling, if anything it encourages it because you'll stuck in deep wound with no other endurance perks to help you, and as i said, if you use it for anti-tunneling and they have STBFL, you are giving them free stacks if you're not the obsession
in what world does a good anti-tunnel perk not only give the killer zero incentive to not chase you, but also gives them free perk value?
I've used both pre 6.1 DS and post 6.1 OTR. Post 6.1 OTR is miles better.
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OTR is amazing when used as an anti-tunneling perk. The things you mentioned only occur when people throw the game to harass the Killer. That doesn't mean the perk isn't a great anti-tunneling perk.
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I suspect anyone who is saying 90% of their games are escapes is probably cherry picking data unless they're Ayrun level players. As an example, some days I'll escape 3/4 of my games. The next day I'll escape 1/4 of my games. If I said I escaped 75% of the time that would be false since the next day will bring me down into escaping just over half of the time.
If you're concerned about tunneling or having a hard time with it try out OTR, SB, DS and something else (maybe Deliverance if they're hard camping). I've had a lot of success with that.
Currently, my escape rate is about 55 to 60%. That's consistent with pre-patch. However, pre-patch I only used DH when I was at Iri grade and was having a tough time pipping up for some reason as DH made my games much easier. If you did use DH a lot it could be your MMR is adjusting and things will be better once it stabilizes. If you're running the exact same build as before you might want to look at changing it as well.
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DH was a crutch. I only used it at Iri grades to help pip up faster to Iri One since it made my games so much easier. It was busted and deserved a nerf.
OTR is far better than prepatch DS for anti-tunneling and can be combined with DS if you want. I tried that out but found OTR and SB meant the Killer usually couldn't catch up to me in the first minute anyway if they tried to tunnel me.
Now that I don't have to spend a slot on WGLF unless I actually want to I have a lot more freedom to try out different builds. As well, I'm definitely noticing I last longer against tunnelers and campers.
Overall, this update is definitely a success.
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Killers will end up tunneling and camping less once more survivors have their MMR stabilize and try out new combinations.
So far, out of the tunneling and camping Killers I've run into there was a 4K one game, there was one 0K game and the rest were 1K instead of the 2K to 4K they would have been prepatch.
It'll just take time for people to adjust their strategies.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3076487#Comment_3076487
Genuine question
I thought the point of the change was to make it so that we don't need to equip perks anymore?
One of the points of the change was to address gens being done too fast and to lessen the effectiveness of tunneling and camping. Another point was to shake up the meta.
To address the issue mentioned specifically, the effectiveness of tunneling and, indirectly, camping has been addressed. You get a base haste and 5 seconds of Endurance. If you are concerned about reaching a tile in time I would recommend equipping SB as with Endurance you should be able to outrun a chainsawing Bubba.
If people are concerned about being tunneled after that time equip OTR. If after OTR and especially SB if you have that equipped you still can't get away then that's probably an MMR issue since the Killer has far better chasing skills than you do.
If people prefer stuns, try DS and Parental Guidance. If you want to be a complete pain equip all 4.
Other potential anti tunneling builds are OTR, exhaustion perk, Deliverance or OTR, exhaustion perk, Slippery Meat and Ace's luck perk, or OTR, exhaustion perk, Renewal or Inner Healing or Built to Last with a med kit. Or maybe you want to pair WoO, etc
Nobody ever said that running without perks would be as effective as running with perks. The devs did say they were reducing the effectiveness of tunneling and I think they've been successful. How effectively it's been reduced nobody knows yet because all the people that relied on an op perk, DH, have to get used to playing with other exhaustion perks instead.
If it helps, I never ran DH and my gamers so far have felt like I can do more against camping and tunneling than I could prepatch. However, if you did use meta perks before, especially DH, you're unfortunately in for a rough set of games before your MMR settles. Once it does, it should be better
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Equip Off the Record and SB.
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@BenZ0 said:
First I just played like I did to win and I had a kill rate of 3,7, its mixed with all kind of Killers cuz this is not a data analysis and I didnt seperate everything now. Its just to showcase the difference here.
Today I decided to try to play "nice". I put on make your choice and played with "hooking" builds like make your choice, pop, call of brine etc. All kind of perks that promote me to go to gens and play in a "nice" way.
I had a MUCH harder time, I struggled hard and barely got the same results as from yesterday with my normal gameplay. I got a killrate of 2,2 on average. Keep in mind I played roughly 30 games in both days.
I got even teabagged and laughed on cuz I am "bad" btw how nice of survivors :)
I was hoping that with the update it has been easier but somehow it is even harder to win now with a nice gameplay mindset. Idk what exactly causes that or maybe I just had a bad day and played in general worse today than yesterday.
Anyway I have the feeling you still are forced to slug, tunnel and camp to win in most games which is sad and boring.
I don't think it's that. What I think it is that tunneling and camping increased your kill average overall and put you at a higher MMR than you would have been without tunneling and camping. I'm not saying you were wrong to do so; I'm just stating tunneling and camping was very effective pre patch.
Now that you're trying for hooks you're going to have some rough games until your MMR stabilizes at a level where you can do multiple hooks.
As an example, pre-patch when I hit Iri grades as survivor I would equip Dead Hard if I was having a rough time pipping up. As soon as I hit Iri One, I removed Dead Hard and nearly always had a string of losses until I went back to an MMR where I didn't need Dead Hard to escape.
I think that's why I'm having a blast with survivor post patch. I ran non-meta builds so my gameplay experience has improved as OTR is so much more effective at countering camping and tunneling than old DS. Survivor players who did use DH regularly prepatch are generally struggling since DH was so overpowered.
For Killers, tunneling and camping was incredibly effective before and is now less effective (it's too early to say how much less effective but my experience in survivor games is definitely better against tunneling and camping). That will make some games rougher if tunneling and camping was part of your playstyle before.
In my opinion, just stick to multiple hooks. After a short period of time your MMR will settle and your games will be more enjoyable and give more BP
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My solo games are good.
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I took BBQ off of most of my Killers. It's not the optimal option for many of the Killers anymore.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Did you feel that teammate skill was more in line with your own than before the patch?
I think the skill levels were about the same as before. The Oni could have been a 4E but a survivor with no hooks, instead of leading the Oni away from the 3 gen, led the Oni to me but that type of thing also happened prepatch. Overall, some good plays, a few OMG why did you just do that, and pretty typical for my experiences in solo.
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Did you actually try or did you just run to the Killer and give up like you advise people to do?
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I give both free escapes and kills. I've also gotten both in about a 60/40 ratio. I don't view them as pity escape/kills but rather good sportsmanship and helping another player. For brand new survivors it completely sucks trying to get BP and 5K for survival plus however much they get hitting my Killer with plywood definitely helps.
For Killers that show good sportsmanship but are struggling I'll give them a free hook or kill as well. I think the gesture is misunderstood a lot of the time because some, not a majority but some, smack me on hook after.
I also only two hook as Killer unless BMed if a survivor plays a group 2×BP offering. With how scarce BP is I'm good with letting survivors go as that's at least a potential 10K BP per survivor for the escape and only 3 or 4K for me if I kill them.
Anyway, I don't view it as a pity thing and more of a sportsmanship and I'm trying to help out a fellow player thing when I do it.
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Put in icons to let people know what each other is doing. Don't use voice chat.
As an example, they have voice chat in VHS. Many players don't use it (most don't now that the game is in Early Access) and, frankly it was only 20% useful and 80% annoying in closed beta. It's almost 100% just annoying now.
Pings could be used but that kind of invalidates Bond, Empathy, etc. Kindred would still be useful but I'm in favour of Kindred being base kit anyway. I'm not saying we shouldn't have pings; I'm saying survivor perks like Bond and Empathy should be considered for buffs of some kind so as not to be useless if there are pings also.
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There are more options available now since the really powerful regression perks got nerfed. Ruin could work with certain Killers (stop 99% gens with Pig, pair it with Surveillance to get info especially with Nemesis' zombies). Jolt will be seen more but relies on downs as does Eruption.
Pop no longer pairs as nicely with other kicking perks and Overcharge is of very low utility again. Call of Brine will become more used which gives opportunities for more Blast Mind Residual Manifest shenanigans (kick and lose aura reading for 30s for the Killer).
Pain Res no longer gives info but Sabateurs will no see which hooks are Scourge hooks and can counter that perk.
With combining OTR and Sprint Burst Bubba's saw can be outrun. If somebody doesn't want to risk another survivor take Deliverance or Slippery Meat paired with Ace's luck perk and Vigo's Salty Lips.
Thana got a minor buff but it only works well with Legion or Plague and paired with Pentimento and/or Gift of Pain (both of which can be played around).
Lightweight might be interesting for stealth now.
The people who will be hurt the most are the hard core tunnelers, NOED users and Dead Hard users. They're will be a big shift that way but there will be a lot of new ways to play now and a stronger variety of builds
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I don't use meta perks except for possibly DS until I hit Iri grade. It then becomes exponentially easier to pip up since my MMR is lower from not using meta perks. As soon as I hit Iri One I unequip meta perks and go back to fun builds.
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The Revenge Of The Rodents Chapter is coming! All bow down to the Woodchipper!
For reference so you know what I'm talking about
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/334348/the-most-horrifying-killer-bhvr-could-do
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066464#Comment_3066464
Four stacks of Thana should make gens three minutes. Agreed.
How can four stacks of Thana make gens three minutes? If you're complaining about Pentimento stacked with Thana stacked with Gift of Pain there are a couple of issues with that.
First off, to get Pentimento a totem has to be cleansed and the Killer has just used three perk slots for Thana, Penti and Gift of Pain which leaves one slot for a hex perk that will get survivors to cleanse. The most likely choice is Plaything. So, there are two options here and both of which are better than having Penti up with many gens remaining:
(A) Cleanse the Penti totem
(B) Rotate your camera angle to watch for the Killer and don't cleanse Plaything
The other stack that is necessary for those gen times is Gift of Pain. If this is in play this means you cleansed against Plague or healed against Legion. If so, the survivors are throwing the game for the Killer. Don't cleanse against Plague and don't heal against Legion.
Now, of course, people will say 'But my teammates!!!' for solo queue which, of course, will happen but what you are describing is something that already happens. The stacking I just described already exists in game pre patch, there are counters to it, and the 10% buff to Thana is literally only 1.8 seconds more per gen solely from the buff. The 1.8 seconds extra is not a major issue.
It's a strong combo for Legion and Plague but the downside of it is the best way to negate it is to play efficiently against Legion and Plague. Legion and Plague want to see people heal and cleanse respectively since it makes their game stronger and all Killers want to see people cleanse Plaything if they have Penti because it's a guaranteed slowdown either from Penti or from having to cleanse a Hex totem.
Don't do what the Killers want you to do if you want to escape; do what helps you.
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5K for survival. Unless the survivors know the Killer is just going to farm with them why risk the 5K reward for 1K or 2K from chase?
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I 100% support the cause! In order to make a bigger impact I suggest we pick certain hours and then ask, nay, we demand all survivors do this!! As soon as it hits 6 PM PST all survivors need to throw off their chains and show unity by doing nothing but Self Caring all night!
PS. If you try to reach me after 6 PM PST I may not respond but I'm not ignoring you. It's just I start playing Killer at that time but I'll get back to you as soon as I switch to Survivor after work and up to 6 PM PST. However, I will be supporting you all in spirit!! (and possibly while playing Spirit)
For The Cause!!!
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@MaudetteClorel said:
The ones leaving will be the ones relying on their crutch and meta perks way too much. A good looper will still be good without DH and iron will, a bad killer will still be bad with built in STBFL and brutal strength. Or even better, a good looper will time their new DH perfectly and get away, as always.
My old build was DH, iron will, BT and CoH, but after distancing myself from the "meta" I feel like I'm enjoying the game much more. Believe it or not, now I can be proud of myself for escaping a chase because I know I did it because I just used the tile/environment to my advantage and not because I had dead hard.
I agree. There are a lot of people at their current MMR bracket because their perks for Survivors and, for Killers, camping and tunneling and/or NOED put them there.
Since a lot of people (understandably) don't think about the long term effect of game mechanics there'll be a lot of people affected. I only played meta perks as Survivor when I hit Iri grade to help with pipping and then removed all meta perks but DS once I hit Iri One and I don't camp or tunnel as a Killer.
Why? It's more fun if I don't and I settled at an MMR where I don't need meta perks or camping or tunneling. When I used meta perks my games got tons easier but I removed them as soon as I hit Iri One and suffered losses so I didn't require them in the future.
Looking at the whole picture helps but some people don't due to their bias. We've seen arguments that BHVR is killer sided to survivor sided to you need to camp and tunnel to win to no, you don't and even to such lengths as attempting to claim that multiple hooks are feasible after all gens are done and the only thing left for the survivors is open an exit gate and walk out. All of these incompatible positions are claimed by someone at the exact same time.
Players can't change game mechanics and can only adapt to them. I know it'll be rough for some but I think if people stick around, try to adapt, and don't feed into their biases but rather try to figure out how to adapt they'll have a more enjoyable time playing in the long term.
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I think OTR, DS, Renewal and Sprint Burst sounds really good for punishing tunnelers if you know you'll get unhooked. If they hit you straight off hook then Renewal will get rid of Deep Wounds. If they don't hit you off hook since, well, Sprint Burst off hook makes that a lot harder then Renewal kicks in and, unless Renewal counts as a conspicuous action, you'd still have Endurance and be fully healed for roughly a minute after Renewal while being chased.
Scott Jund also suggested Sprint Burst because, if you do get hit, the speed boosts and Endurance state before the hit make it possible to outrun Bubba's saw.
His recommendation for a build that doesn't require a survivor to unhook on the first hook was either Deliverance, OTR, SB and something else or OTR, SB, Slippery Meat and Up the Ante.
Personally, if I were to use Slippery Meat, I'd also bring Vigo's Jar of Salty Lips as the trade off is Slippery Meat isn't a guaranteed unhook, and if you don't you're probably shafted, but it doesn't require you unhooking someone first and no broken state vs Deliverance's conditions and the free perk slot on the build.
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Too much effort and his scream is too loud. I can turn down the sound (and then miss survivor footsteps and breathing) or I can play at normal volume and help support the hearing aid industry. Or I can just not play Hillbilly. I pick option 3.
If his curving were better, I might consider Hillbilly despite the sound issues but currently way too much effort for too little return.
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@Sepex said:
Clown OP thread. I can safely cross this off my bucket list.
I've seen two Clown is OP threads in the last few months. It's probably still safe to cross it off your bucket list.
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I like it
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061565#Comment_3061565
i see a lot of twins mains too
I was considering throwing Oni in there as well but someone on the forums said they were an Oni main six months ago and I'm assuming they're still playing. Otherwise, Oni mains can join in as well.
Someone saying they're an Oni main is sort of like the 'spouse of my friend's sister's cousin does this' situation but it is theoretically possible.
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063405#Comment_3063405
I'm wondering what perk that specific type of survivor will switch to. Because the hyperaggressive clicky-clicky types that won't leave you alone always 100% had DH
It'll be harder for them now without Iframes or dead harding for distance. Maybe Off the Record for the Endurance since the hyper clicky types also seem to be allergic to doing gens but that requires a hook state which brings the Killer closer to removing them from the game.
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It's a good change. Any survivors who are cognizant of how it works will now just look for the totem, cleanse it, and unhook as normal so the Killer will get one easy down at the cost of an entire perk slot. I'm good with that trade off. It becomes really dangerous if you're on death hook but, other than that, Rancor is superior. Many habitual NOED users are, right now, only in their MMR bracket because of NOED so, until they go down to a more appropriate MMR, will still have 3 or less hooks before end game.
I still prefer @Laluzi 's token idea but the current change is at least a step in the right direction. The only problem with the current change is that NOED becomes even more relegated to noobie killer (small k, not large k) status while a token based system would make it more of a reward for good gameplay and multiple hooks.
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An alternative title for the thread is 'Who are you going to date and why is it Spirit?'
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062258#Comment_3062258
That's your opinion and more assumptions. Does everyone have DS and DH ready during the end game? Does DS automatically teleport you to the exit gate upon rescue? That's the issue, is this assumption that DS and or DH is a guaranteed escape. It isn't!
My point continues to stand, I understand your opinion but it changes nothing.
And on your final point, it was very clear we were talking about the five generators completed mark. It's unnecessary for me to have to repeatedly reiterate that. I don't see any ambiguity but now you understand.
That's fine. Your point wasn't factual but an opinion anyway and people don't have ti agree. Just as a side note, it also weakens your argument to make facetious comments that weren't said such as you stating that I must have to camp and tunnel to get kills when I didn't say anything implying that and a review of my posting history will show quite clearly I don't camp or tunnel and think both those practices are unhealthy for the game. Generally, good faith arguments avoid tactics such as those.
In any event, I look forward to the patch which I believe will improve my solo survivor experience. In a month or so, possibly two, it should be possible to see which argument is correct.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061833#Comment_3061833
I was wondering the same thing like did I miss something where it said only one gen can progress at a time.
Exactly, I also think solo survivor will be better unless the only reason the survivor is at their MMR was because of Dead Hard.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062041#Comment_3062041
A newly rescued survivor wasn't always the most optimal choice because there was the risk of DS. Sometimes, the killer is incentivized to go after the rescuer. Now that incentive is instead shifted to focus on the tunnel. That was my point, you can invent any scenario you want, and people can discuss it ad nauseam. Still, it doesn't change anything about what I stated very plainly, that the killer is now highly incentivized to go after the newly rescued survivor independent of anything else in the match. That wasn't always the case.
No, I just think the beneficial changes to survivor that will allow survivors to play longer are far more important than losing the ability to DS the Killer and DH out the exit gate. It was, if the Killer thought the survivor had DS and would make it to endgame, usually better to tunnel to avoid the free escape of DS. Endgame should not be an automatic escape but the game is more fun if survivors make it to end game; both of these the update helps with.
By the way, here is your reply where you are not clear about what you're talking about even though I was discussing end game.
@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062041#Comment_3062041
A newly rescued survivor wasn't always the most optimal choice because there was the risk of DS. Sometimes, the killer is incentivized to go after the rescuer. Now that incentive is instead shifted to focus on the tunnel. That was my point, you can invent any scenario you want, and people can discuss it ad nauseam. Still, it doesn't change anything about what I stated very plainly, that the killer is now highly incentivized to go after the newly rescued survivor independent of anything else in the match. That wasn't always the case.
Before saying people are confused it's better to actually be clear in your communication. The match is much longer than just the endgame.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062200#Comment_3062200
The Killer has more incentive to go after a newly rescued survivor that is guaranteed to not have DS. Your argument is based on the wrong assumption that the only way the killer can get a kill at five gens is to tunnel. That isn't true but I don't know your skill level as a killer, so perhaps that might be the case for you. I can't help you any further.
Are you discussing end game or while gens are up? You keep on changing the goal posts in the argument.
@TheSubstitute said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061910#Comment_3061910
If, after five gens have been completed, the Killer doesn't go after a newly unhooked survivor isn't the Killer purposely not trying to kill any survivors?
I can definitely see, and agree, that Killers can be better off to split pressure quite often when gens are still up but, if a Killer doesn't go after a newly unhooked survivor in the endgame, how are they supposed to get any kills?
This is a quote of my first reply to you. It doesn't appear you read it
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062077#Comment_3062077
You're not reading. I'm specifically talking about when the five generators are completed. DS and OTR are not at play at 5. The incentive is now greater because the killer is guaranteed not to have to deal with DS. You have someone that is injured, you can down them and pick them up. I'm not confident that 5 seconds of BT and haste is going to accomplish what 12 seconds of BT and 8 seconds of haste doesn't currently achieve. I never said it was the most optimal or would necessarily be successful, but the incentive is certainly there to tunnel.
So your argument is that, in the end game pre update, when the only chance the Killer has of getting a kill is tunneling or downing someone on death hook, will tunnel more post update now that their only chance of getting a kill is tunneling or downing someone on death hook?
Yeah, that's not a solid argument. Arguing that, despite all the improvements to make it more likely the survivor will make it to end game, somehow makes it even worse overall for survivors is even flimsier.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062041#Comment_3062041
A newly rescued survivor wasn't always the most optimal choice because there was the risk of DS. Sometimes, the killer is incentivized to go after the rescuer. Now that incentive is instead shifted to focus on the tunnel. That was my point, you can invent any scenario you want, and people can discuss it ad nauseam. Still, it doesn't change anything about what I stated very plainly, that the killer is now highly incentivized to go after the newly rescued survivor independent of anything else in the match. That wasn't always the case.
How is the Killer more incentivized to go after the newly unhooked survivor now with a haste buff, guaranteed BT, probably OTR and possibly a DS as well except for in the end game?