Talmeer
Talmeer
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@matt6996 said:
Old legion was cancer to play against they literally had no counter play which made facing them hella unfun to play against thats what caused the re work. Also including all the exploits that they had plus how Franks Mixtape stained DBD history as one of the most OP add on's at the time. But they could give back some of the power that old legion had while keeping some of the things they have gotten from the rework.
Why people always need to use real life ilnesses for something they dislike?
Have you ever see someone die on cancer? It's not a fun game, so please stop using it.
Btw. for some people the Legion was really unfun and unfun to play against.
For others it was fun and fun to play against.
If you ask 100 people, you get 100 opinions (inclusive opinions you dislike!) and that is good so, because we are humans.
Btw. the Legion was not op. She was weak and far away from "no counterplay". Every other comment shows just how little someone knows about the Legion.
The thing that has made the Legion op was the addons. You favorite streamer/YouTuber that has rant behind his desk are the best prove for that. Because if they had start to show their audience how op the Legion allegedly was, they showed it with Franks Mixtape, or the few other purple addons.
I wonder why?
Because maybe, the basekit of the Legion was pretty weak and they could have never shown his "opness" without those addons?
Yeah that could be the answer...
Since the addons were the problem, I have never understood why they have jump on the basekit, this extrem.
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I am a pre patch Legion main and I have talk also with many other pre patch Legion mains via the forums, or the steam friends messanger.
The honest answer is, that the most people just miss his playstyle and that is a legimet reason, since the old Legion had a unqiue playstyl.
For me as example, it is the only reason why I complain about the Legion patch.
But on top of that, comes the frustraion why the Legion got nerfed - or why many people think that the Legion got nerfed.
The most people believe that the Legion got nerfed, because she was very strong, but that was not the case. The base Legion without addons, or only low addons was really weak.
What the Legion has make strong and in my opinion op, was the addons.
You would think, that it would be the best to nerf then the addons - but bhvr had decided to go even beyond that and with that they have anger many people.
Now we have a Legion that has a ton of drawbacks and let us be honest... Which person enjoys playing a character, with a ton of drawbacks?
Imagine, that survivors would be autostunned after every pallet/window vault... The forums would be full of threads because of that, because no one would be able to see a reason in a rework like this (I at least not).
And so it is with the Legion.
Sometimes those complains start even to be stronger and are sometimes overdrawn, but here you need to see that pre patch Legion mains still have to struggle with the same complains of some very loud, but also incorrigible survivors, that talking from op and so on.
Under this conditions, the used arguments can be going more extrem and overdrawn as before, because you don't reach the people with other words since they have all made their picture in their head and are not able anymore, to listen to people who must have known it best, because they spent an incredible amount of time with the Legion - aka. the Legion mains.
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@lindenis said:
Now suvs can't use those perks because some killers can have a mental break?
Survivors can be also toxic. I had 2 times facecamp (1 person/match) in my time in dbd and oh boy... The endgame chat after that... Luckily the endgame chat after those 2 games whas nothing I have care about.
Sometimes you are just in a bad mood, killers like survivors and when then something assumingly unfair happens, this person puts all his frustration just into that.
The end of it, we see then in endgamechats like those :).
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I understand your frustration, but I know not one companie who would do that, besides maybe old Blizzard, but even they don't give any free stuff out since they got swallowed from Activision.
But at least, It is an experience from which we can draw our own conclusions.
Besides that, we can still hope that they doing something good with the Legion. They had already confirmed that they will watch at the Legion again (sort of). Just without a timestamp and that is ok imo.
The next rework, or what ever is hopefully also with the Legion players in mind - aka the player that spent the most time with the Legion, as any other typ of player (obviously) and if they need for this more time, then they should take it for it.
and what refunds matters or any form of them.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601712#Comment_601712
I guess you are right, I'm simply sad that I cannot seem to be able to play the role where I spent so many BP for so long.
I think my major concern is thst I am on my own and I feel the controls being so clunky sometimes.
At the same time, stopping playing killer will make me even worse.
But yes I'll play some survivor more
@Talmeer I also used to like the chase more, and Ive always considered a good game just to get my bbq stacks. But now if I think about playing killer I feel like going to work on a Monday morning. There's pressure and I don't know how to reduce it
Well then maybe, it is the right time to take a break from being killer.
What ever you do in your free time, it should make fun. The only other solution would be to watch tutorial videos, as others said before, but if even that not helps, the only solution is sometimes to take a break.
After my experience, it mostly pays off and you are better in your next games, after you have taken a break.
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I have me never feel bothered by the waiting times. Just use this time. Make in this time yourself a coffee. Take a chocolate on your table, read forums/newspages, watch something on your tv, or do work on your pc if you are on your pc.
I work very often on my pc. So I have always something to do, or to read about. As long as the waiting times are not directly a half hour, I wouldn't complain and I had never those waiting times, to the time were I had play the game.
Aka. just try to be chilled out.
What the pressure matters... Well playing killer is always playing against the clock, can't help you there, but maybe you can find fun in the chase of survivors and less for killing someone. That could take some steam off.
For me was the chase always more important as to have my 4x kills and it was mostly nice, far as I remember.
What the "clunky" playstyle of killers matters, -I bet many things are so clunky to give survivors an advantage. That is ok imo.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601499#Comment_601499
Funny you use WOW as an example. Druid used to have 3 specs, now 4, that was a significant rework. Shadow priest is drastically different than before. Remember when DKs could tank in all specs? Those are serious REWORKS
I don't talk here about the question if you are strong or weak with a character at the end.
I talk here about the question, if it feels still the same, to play your class, or not.
The arms warrior as example was also a long time never something you have go in a raid with, still he has feel the same over the years.
Nerfs and buffs have the power to make a class/character strong or weak. The druids, dks and shadowpriests have still the old abilites - like every other class far as I can rember. They just got nerfed/buffed for balance or to make them viable.
Reworks do that also, but they going beyond that and change even the feeling and that is something what should not happen imo.
And with all honesty, it is something that drives (potential) customers away.
If you like to have a apple, you buy a apple. You don't wanna have from the vendor a pear.
You are maybe ok with that your apple has some pressure points, but I can't imagine someone who would be ok with that, if get instead something different on his table.
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@johnmwarner said:
Games do this all the time, patching or changing things. They also addressed your pre rework suggestion it would require maintaining and balancing two characters
You are right that multiplayer games patching always their characters and classes with nerfs and buffs, but a rework is more.
As example, I play in wow a warrior (def and arms spec) since the end of classic, a frostmage since the end of wod and a holypriest since the begin of bfa.
All those classes and specs feel still the same, as they had in the years back than and of course, all those classes and specs have got their nerfs and buffs over time.
Nerfs and buffs are common and the way to go. Reworks on the other hand... They are just a no go.
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Things like that can happen, if you have longer not log in? I should check my dlcs then too^^.
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@IamFran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600819#Comment_600819
So Legion mains don't know what argument have to use for defending that unbalanced and badly designed mess which was Legion and the new argument is a massive conspiracy of experienced players who only want to please their youtube suscriptors, blaming about Legion... Ok...
Legion had the dubious honor of being designed considering the only the fun of playing him/her without considering the fun playing against him/her. The most unfun to play against for me, over the top, worse than Doctor or Hag, which is saying something.
I have always say, that Franks Mixtape was op.
The guy in this video plays with Frank Mixtape. I wonder why? Why hasen't he play the Legion without addons?
Maybe that would be a totally different experience?
Maybe because the things he had show in this video, would he never be able to show without addons?
In the 15 minutes he had in this video, he said not one time... ->not one<- time, something useful and that is my point.
Videos like that helping nobody, besides the people that have already their opinion made.
They don't teach someone how he can be better. They also say nothing towards devs, how they should change the character on a healthy way.
All he is able to do is, is repeat himself a feeled thousand times in 15 minutes, with "owww my goad, such a bad design"-
Again, that's helping nobody. You can decide to stay crying with tears behind your screen, or you can be doing something usefull.
He has decide to do anything, just don't being usefull.
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600754#Comment_600754
I am not impressed by the Freddy rework, so probably not the best example. Or Wraith. Or Trapper. Or Myers. Or Huntress. Or Billy I have more positive things to say about Doctor, Hag and Spirit, but with caveats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oy7ZmFrsIE
Regarding Legion, I have looked on Youtube as @Talmeer suggested and the top video for 'dead by daylight playing against legion' is from 8 months ago, 318k views, by Monto. He directly challenges the idea that Legion is 'not under-powered', and he's sure Legion is(and probably still does after the changes). In his tutorial he uses what were standard meta perks for survivors at that time: BT, BL, SC and Adrenaline.
His 3 pointers:
- Do not stick together
- If he hits you and goes away, mend
- When he jumps over pallets, don't run, just jump back. Does not work on windows
I remember this from when Legion was released. More than half the time that third one works, because Legion's view is locked forwards until the animation finishes. If they attack to early, it's queued and they attack straight ahead of them as soon as they are off the pallet. If they attack late you could be too far back over the pallet for them to hit; they have to turn round first. The time-window for Legion to do this is very small and they land off the pallet slightly further than survivors do.
On actual windows it doesn't work because the interaction-zone for them is much smaller; Legion will be blocking it. Much of this was discussed by killers when Legion was released, but survivor-mains don't make a habit of going into killer threads to just listen.
Monto's video isn't just trying to demonstrate 'look at how I won'; winning really doesn't mean anything in a scenario that's meant to show specific facets of gameplay and the emergent dynamics of them. For weird people who do think the actual escape-kills matter, well anybody could just cherry-pick the examples where that did happen, but it's not very informative about specifics. I excuse him his e-peen swinging about his LEGACY SURVIVOR because he demonstrates and explains what he's talking about, he understands it.
I'm watching his later videos now to see if he changed his mind about Legion and if so, why.
That's actual a good video, but I guess "the no counterplay guys" will write now a one liner why that video hasen't any use for them.
I for myself watching the other video at moment as said before and I listen to a guy who is constanly! ranting about the Legion. I am now by 11:20 and this guys is not be able to say 1 time something usefull. Just stuff to bring people on the hate train.
Well, he has still 4 minutes to say something of value that could actual help players, but I think he will be a disappointment.
It's always so easy to rant about something, but to do just 1 time something that would be a help for someone, seems for some guys to difficult.
Edit: The video is finished... Finaly... 15 minutes of ranting without a single tip that could potential help someone, of a guy that plays with a op addon. That has nothing to do with the real Legion. I can only shake my head.
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Edit: If you watch already the first 0:25 secounds of your linked video (exhilration...), you can already listen how this YouTuber wastes no time to rant about the Legion.
That's nice... For people that have already made their opinion.
But tell me how someone can learn something from that video, besides to jump also on the nerf train?
I will watch the rest of the video, but I bet already yet, that this YouTuber is not able to tell 1 time!, someone something about the counterplay for the Legion. All he will do is show video-material that proves his point (at least in his opinion).
Should I be wrong, I will edit this posting again.
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I was a pre patch default Legion main. So I know there was counterplay i've seen it in the game.
I don't say that the Legion was not op - with certain addons loaded, but not every Legion had play his character like that and if the addons are the problem, why looking for more?
I usually tend to watch YouTubers that are a help for me and with that I mean, that they show me how I can do something.
To listen to someone, who's not explaining how to do something and is instead just arguing about something he finds unfair or op, is just a waste of time, because it didn't help anyone, besides the people that have already their opinion made (so that they can say "here look that guy says exactly what I already said!").
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Yeah, I had know from those crying streamers/YouTubers before.
The point is, the most of them do it because their audience want it so and it doesn't help anyone.
Not the Legion players of course, but also not the survivors. If you always cry at the dbd devs in awaiting that they nerf your problematic killer X, you give yourself never the chance to grow with your character.
Imo, everyone should prefer to stick to the YouTubers that make tutorials videos, because they are really helping.
But the named counterplay from you was also pretty common in higher ranks, to the pre patch times. It had help survivors sometimes in certain situations. It was of course not the only avaible counterplay.
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@deadbyhitbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600745#Comment_600745
Enlighten me on his counters. Please. I would absolutely love to know them.
We both know that I could nothing write, that would persuade you and that's why I am done with helping survivors in the forums.
Nobody can help someone, if he does not want to be helped.
If you really like to see the counterplay, search at YouTube. The tutorial videos are not hard to find. Knowing that because I searched them one time by myself.
As said before, the Legion had problems, but please try to not overstate it.
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@deadbyhitbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600628#Comment_600628
Missed a hit, whoops guess I'll just swing 55 more times until I hit him
Vaulted a window? Guess I'll just vault way faster.
Dropped a pallet? Guess I'll just vault the pallet and hit him.
The point is, pre patch Legion had 0 counter play. There is literally no defending him.
It had. Just use the YouTube searchengine if you are interested to know the counterplays, survivors had against the Legion.
It's anyways better as to write a long text again, that then not got readed.
I am maybe done with giving survivors tips in the forums, but I don't let stay a lie.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600650#Comment_600650
@GrootDude Sorry to miss out on the thrilling fun of one shot hatchets, Prayer Beads, and 5 blinks. I’m not gonna stay in a match when two people already DC’ed. I rarely DC as it is, I stay and torture myself against Billy and bore myself to death against Legion.
I really don’t care what anybody thinks about DC’ing. I won’t stay in a match with OP add-ons while my entire team is DC’ing. Everybody DC’s from time to time.
Well, if the killer is a nice one, he let you farm then.
Many killers let survivors farm if 1 or more dc's - depending when that had happened.
You miss a 30k+ bp chance then (without survivor dailies).
I also think that nobody should ever dc. Have it also never made by myself, besides 1 time were I have land because of some weird bug with a Pig in the same match and so I have dc then, because I don't wanna get banned for playing a 3v2 game^^.
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@MegMain98 said:
@Talmeer Legion could tunnel down a survivor and down them in three hits with Frank’s Mix Tape and NOT have to wait for their power to fully recover. It was broken. All you could do is hope the Legion player was boosted a missed their swings.
Legion was not good for getting 4K’s but good enough to tunnel one survivor and kill them and make the game super unfun for everybody. The reason people played him was that it took zero skill, you got a lot of bloodpoints, and Legion still SOMEHOW pipped even when you killed only one survivor.
New Legion is also bad. They are so bad that all their power does is give you a Borrowed Time effect and a Sprint Burst upon a successful hit.
I just hate Legion gameplay wise. He isn’t good and also isn’t very fun to play as or against.
I agree with you, that Franks Mixtape was to strong.
The thing is, although I was a pre patch Legion main, I had never use this addon, or purples in general. Just 1 time each, to test it and the difference to the default Legion without addons and it was just boring.
On the other hand was the default Legion exactly what I wanted to play. So was the choice for me very easy -> I had play hundrets of games just without the addons, or sometimes a brown one.
I wish survivors could better remember the default Legion, without addons as that they always remember that op Legion with Franks Mixtape.
Many people have play the Legion without it.
Survivor's exploit sometimes or use op perks, but not everyone of them, hm?
The truth is, if someone exploits, he is toxic and toxic people you find everywere.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600614#Comment_600614
STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB
cooldown
STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB
the counterplay was hoping the Legion player was bad enough to miss the attack several times and wait for the power to run out
and he could just do it again so it wasn't really counterplay
but surely, you're right. Sorry.
sighs there was more counterplay.
The way how you argue shows that you event don't know what is was, but as said before, I don't see a point in writing now a tutorial for it, because I know, you will find some short words as excusment why you have not read that tutorial, or why that can't be the truth, even if it got written by pre Legion main - aka. the person who should know its best, since mains spent the most time with their favorite character.
Think, what you want, but this mindset will you always lead to killers that are op for you.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600605#Comment_600605
Dude, the overwhelming opinion of the community was that Legion was unhealthy. What you present is anecdotal.
Erasing individual skill from the game is unhealthy. Being literally unable to lose chases is unhealthy.
A chase is an interaction between two players. When that interaction becomes essentially a PVE game (because Legion required no skill to win chases) it's bad design.
Also, I celebrate whenever I think the game is going to a good place balance wise. I celebrated the hell out of MoM and DS nerfs for example. I want the game to be good, I'm happy when things that will make the game better happen.
1-The Legion had counterplay, but I will not waste any words here to that, if not absolutly necessary, because of what I said before.
2-The Legion had need not more or less skill, as any other character in the game.
If you really like to show skill, start watching counterplay videos to the killers you have a problem with. That would be the first step to show skill.
Besides that, dbd is not Stacract Broodwar, it is also not Counter Strike, or Battlefield. Dbd is a game that has a easy learning curve in some way.
You just need to spent enough time with your favorite character and you are good enough for the most situations and that is good. I don't need the time back, where I needed to play 8h+/day to be good enough to play with someone that calls himself a "pro", nor I would have today the time for it.
Dbd has its errors, but the learning curve is it definitely not.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600545#Comment_600545
Exactly.
And the devs already said they ain't planning on changing Spirit. As much as I wish she had more chase counterplay, she doesn't NEED nerfs and she doesn't compare to the Nurse in terms of overall power (Nurse lacks counterplay AND has better map pressure AND ends chases faster AND her power has no cooldown).
I wouldn't worry about base Spirit. I wouldn't worry about anything other than Prayer Beads really, that's the only thing I see seeing actually nerfed.
Legion is such a bad design it hurts. This killer was always bad if you didn't cheese the chases. Hell, they were even worse. (I do count the previous deep wound reducing timer on hit mechanic as cheese because it required no skill and I doubt they saw through all the consequences that design had when they made the killer). It's sad that they need to be held down to not be unhealthy, but I honestly prefer Legion to be bad than to ruin everyone's experience like before.
1-The Legion was one of the few good designs in dbd. A good design is not copy&paste from one character to another (looking at you m1 killers, basicly) and a good design let you choose how you want to play your character.
Further then that, its design introduce thes archtype of a fast stabbing killer into dbd. Something the game hasen't before and that was something that has also many people join the dbd community (me included). The Legion advertisment video had exactly promiset what many people had look for.
2-Surviors tend to say that we killers should look at the things differently. That is a legit argument. The thing is... Survivors prove always that they can't do the same in return.
If the Legion was so unhealthy to the game, why I had in my endgame chats people that had thank me for a challenging game? Why was the Legion the only reason to buy dbd?
That sounds for me pretty healthy^^.
Imo, the survivors in the forums have just their personal hatred. You see it even on the arguments. Mostly they start then to talk about exploits, or no counterplay, aka. they forget that also survivors had play with exploits and they resist to read tutorials, or watch videos that could help them.
In every other game, that behavior would not even worth mentioning besides a "rofl", but here it leads to nerfs :|.
The truth is, while many people accept that the Legion had darker sites, some people are not be able to see the other site. The site were people have enjoy playing the Legion and playing against the Legion.
Besides, I have seen in the Legion and Nurse nerf threads a behavior what I really find disgusting.
It is ok to be pro nerf for Legion, or Nurse, or to be against it... We all have our opinions, but... To go then in a thread and celebrate the nerf, just to put more salt in the wounds of the playerbase that has now to struggle with the nerfs and has lost more interest in the game they had like to play?
No thanks... I have never post in a survivor/perk nerf thread and I will for sure not celebrate if surviovrs got nerfed. Not important if we talk then about a nerf I can understand for them, or not.
My experience with survivors is totally different when I look at the game and then in the forums and I at least can see the difference.
Why survivors see always and only the exploiting killers, or op addon using killers? I don't get it.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600281#Comment_600281
Copypasta?
The average playerbase of the game is extremely one-sided and can't see nuance on anything, That's especially true for this game because of its asymetrical nature.
It's very hard to have constructive opinions in this game without playing both sides, and most people don't. And even some who do are still biased because they like one side more. The Nurse issue is actually one of the things that some killer mains were complaining about, and in my experience, if killer mains complain about a killer-specific issue being too strong it's because it's legit busted.
And because the average playerbase is extremely one-sided, the only whay you have for your voice is to be loud. It's a devils circle.
It's sad, but that's how the things running. Besides, this thread isn't better as any "nerf killer X", or "nerf survivor perk Y" thread.
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@PickCollins said:
Yeah I'm a Nurse main and thank God for this rework. Killers and Surviviors have been bitching since the dawn of time about how she ruins the game for everyone so maybe with this they'll finally shut the ######### up
:)
The nerf cryers will never shut up. They only move from the assumed strongest killer for them, to the next. If they have cry loud enough, so that everything got nerfed, they just start again with it and then the nurse would be again under fire.
This, you can see in every multiplayer game, with more or less success.
The difference from the common game, to dbd is just - if something gots nerfed in game X, they nerf a abilitie... They don't do a rework, just because a addon is to strong, or some other minor problem. With other words, they usually don't over nerf something.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/599084#Comment_599084
Sprint burst got fixed, I played old legion a lot but I didn’t use FF to down because it felt cheap imo. I didn’t use add ons much because back then I didn’t bring any. Old legion didn’t bother me aside from moonwalking but it honestly didn’t require much effort to vault pallets and windows and stab the survivors with FF.
I had also mostly play without addons or sacrifices besides the ones for more bp.
The purple addons were just to op after my opinion and it had feel just boring to play with them. I miss the old default Legion.
I hope actual that the nurse changs are good ones. Aka. changes that don't change the killer too much, so that the nurse mains still have the same feeling when they playing her.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/599064#Comment_599064
Because moonwalking legion had counter play....
Survivors had in the past also the abilities to exploit (btw. is that latest survivor perk fixed? Just asking because i'm curious).
Does that mean survivors should be now reworked?
Maybe, -20% speed and a stun after every window vault?
No?
Yes, you are right. A few idiots have exploit, but that doesn't justify a nerf that has punish every player, even the fair playing ones.
So please stop using double standards.
Btw. when I say default Legion, I mean a not exploiting, no addons using Legion.
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@Omans said:
Is that a bad precedent? Fixing things badly broken and things that remove skill from the game? Legion was a cancer to this game, and nurse is a plague at high ranks.
Stop acting like the sky is falling or that this will snowball into nerfs for other killers too. If they do a good job with nurse, and actually give counterplay against good nurses, then next on the agenda should be a HUGE map overhaul. Maps are becoming increasingly larger and harder to keep pressure around the map for killers. Once that is done, balance can be looked at further for killers and survivors.
Of course, there are things like prayer beads, insta-down hatchets, insta-heals, moris, that need to be looked at.
The main goal should be a game where survivors have as equal a chance at escaping as killers do at killing them. That's something that all these nurse mains crying on the forums don't seem to realize. A good nurse who doesn't want you to escape effectively removes any chance of that. That's not a fun or fair game experience. Counterplay is basically non-existent against good nurses. That's why legion was changed, and that's why nurse is being looked at now.
It's been a long time coming, and nurse mains who can't keep up will finally fall down to the ranks they belong in. It had become tiring facing nurses who didn't belong there. And believe it or not, if you are actually a good killer, staying at rank 1 with every killer is not difficult.
1- Stop using real life illnesses in this context PLOX.
2-The default pre patch Legion without addons was weak and whoever had problems with her... Serious... read, or watch some tuotrials. That's why tutorials exist. That would also show skill (you know, that one word what survivors love to say towards others... as long as they are not in the ironsight...).
On the other hand, the Legion with certain addons was to strong. Usually you would think, that this leads primaly to addon nerfs (or just removing them), but no, no... They doesn't have stop there.
3-Would I be a nurse main, I would be worried now too. Even not just because the Legion patch, also because the pig nerfs and I know, that the devs have tell us, that this all will take a good end, but before I not see in the patch notes something good, I am not persuaded. Imo, maybe the nurse get some good changes... But with the history bhvr has, it shouldn't be surprising that some guys are worried.
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I have one time see a thread with all the killer nerfs listed in the steam forums. That thread should be also exist in the dbd forums^^.
Was a pretty long thread...
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@MegsAreEvil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/598650#Comment_598650
I never said anythin about loops. Thats just your false interpretation, i dont have anything to with. Nurse breaks nearly all mechanics. pallets, windows, walls, distance. You literally cant escape. thats why she gets nerfed. for gods sake gamebalance.
To be fair, if a survivor complains about something in a discussion like this, he usually means looping. So I don't think its surprising, that this got assumed first.
The stealth and gen rush guys are usually like their playstyle... aka. very silent :).
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@shalo said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/482/JP5LYHSSQ2MD.jpg
Who DCs against Trapper! What if they face, you know, an actual good killer?
Good on the top two lads for fighting to the end.
<irony We all know that the Trapper is a op killer, with no counterplay at all! </irony :P :D.
Nah, people act like people act, if they don't have to be afraid for some serious punishment.
I had also people dc in my matches while I was playing the Clown. I think that says already everything -_-.
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@Rademenes16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/598323#Comment_598323
We should ask for better matchmaking then - based on K/D and average bloodpoints per match. It would make dbd a better place without smurf accounts, elite killers or godly survivors. Everyone is on the same level.
I would love to see in dbd a better matchmaking and I also think that this would solve many problems, but I think it is not possible with the current player numbers.
As long, as people complain that they have to wait, too long for a match you know imo, that not enough people are playing the game.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/597499#Comment_597499
Why do not very good nurses think they should be able to challenge elite survivors? If the devs are "mainly" touching her addons, then elite nurses will still have no problem at the top.
You can turn this question around.
Why do not very good survivors think they should be able to challenge elite killers?
Imo, we all should less ask for nerfs and max. for buffs. That would be less toxic and not so many people would be annoyed at the end.
If you have a problem with the nurse, ask for better perks against the nurse. Voila - less trouble.
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Some Legion mains have maybe say that he should be nerfed, but the majority not and can we please listen to the majority. I mean that is not north corea here, or what?
I can just laugh at anyone who had find the default Legion without addons to strong - with addons sure, she was, no questions here, but that didn't justifys the mega nerf.
And yes, the nerf cycle seems indeed alive.
That's why the killer community as a whole need to be vocal, at least more vocal as the nerf crying minority of survivors. In the game, I have often meet different survivors to the survivors in the forums.
Those survivors have liked to play games where they got challenged, but of course those survivors post not very often in the forums, if they ever look in one, that said.
For the health of the game, we need to be loud.
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@marching_hyena said:
I'm kinda disappointed that it seems like the devs were like, "the players are using the Killer's ability differently than we expected,,,, WE MUST NERF!!!". Legion honestly used to be fun to play against when he was first released. They were a genuinely scary killer to play against and I felt accomplished whenever I survived a match against them. It's disappointing to me that devs are making some Killers useless because of genuine player strategies that the devs didn't consider when making the chatacter. Having Killers that could be played in a few different strategies added diversity and uniqueness to each match played. Not to mention, it's equally disappointing and frustrating seeing, for example, players who played an end-game based Piggy get punished and nerfed when camping is still an issue that literally has no counter play and nothing major is ever done to fix that.
My thinking^^.
A really good killer and killer design lets you enough space for your own way to play the certain killer.
Bad designs try to press you in a role, that in the most cases make no fun.
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@thesuicidefox said:
I don't see them changing her base kit. If anything they nerf her SLIGHTLY so that she will need to use white add-ons to be the same as before (but will still be very strong).
Addon dependence should never be the way to go for killers and survivors.
The base abilitys should always be strong enough, so that the killer, or survior can fulfill his role.
Imagine survivors could only repair gens with a certain addon... That is just meh...
Wish you luck Nurse guys. After the Legion mega-nerf, Pig nerfs and killer perk nerfs, we know you will need it^^.
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@lindenis said:
Yaaass nerf her uwu
"Yeah, take the fun for them away, WUHUU!!!1111111".
Don't like to say anything about the nurse here, but this survivor behavior is really well... Can't find a polite word for it, so I let it.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/595742#Comment_595742
We've mentioned this a couple times already, but we are still keeping an eye out for feedback and we'll make changes if necessary when we get the chance. We have not forgotten about them, we just have a lot on our plates at the moment.
Regarding the Pig's change, this is part of a series of changes designed to standardize what a basic attack is. There's a lot of confusion surrounding what is a basic attack and which perks work with which attacks (with some perks with an attack while other perks don't). We're working on cleaning this up and should have more info to share in the future.
Thanks for your response. On a answer like yours now, I (and maybe also others) have waited for.
I guess, nobody assumes, that changes to the Legion, or the Pig can happen from one day to another, but the communication... The knoweldge that we are not getting ignored are important imo and that's why I am thankful for your answer.
When the time has come for the Legion, please throw as first that stupid missing hit stun out. To make it short, -drawbacks are no fun at all and a change like that would also not destroy the balance of the Legion, I believe.
@Peanits
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@Thelzxx said:
bhvr is actually nerfing killers?
wait..where is nurse nerf?good to know that, though all i recognize is they literally nerf everything about survivor, like how they broke m.o.m and d.sJust read the complete patchnotes then.
Also just because the nurse got not nerfed yet, didn't mean that other killers got not nerfed. Infact I would bet on it, that survivors face so often nurses, because other killers got nerfed.
That happens when killers go trash tier. Then some of them change their mains and in the moment, the chances are high, that this new main is called "The Nurse".
Maybe the killer nerf cryers think on that, before someone of them writes again a new killer nerf thread^^.
... Unless of course, survivors like to see the nurse over and over again, -then I have nothing say :P.
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@OMagic_ManO said:
Next thing we know, her crouching does not suppress her terror radius anymore and just makes her a little more stealthy, and she gets only 2 traps now.
When the traps trigger, instead of killing you, they give Deep Wounds.
1 day for the Legionpatch day, I was playing with the idea to buy a new Legion skin and the Pig, because she had make fun (I could 1 time test her with a red killer addon before).
Then bhvr had release the disastrous patch that nerfed the Legion and also one of the first nerfs for the Pig was in it.
TL:DR They had make me safe my money :).
Its just sad what happens here :(.
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There was counterplay. But it needed skill to do it, so... I don't know how to say it on a other way (trying to be polite)... If someone... ahm... has liked to play just how he plays in every other match, by ignoring who he is up against, then... he had a hard time and under this conditions... So with that in mind, there was indeed no counterplay...
And to play the Legion was also more, or less "skillless" as to play any other killer, or survivor. The whole learning curve in this game is, that you just need to spend enough time with a certain character, to become the necessary "skill".
That is good imo, because it makes it easier for beginners and also for people that like to change their mains.
But, btt:
I would also appreciate a discussion. The killer nerfs in the last months show clearly that it would not be bad, if also killers can voice their opinion.
How I heard was that already that 1 time already the case with the changes on the hag. Everybody is happy today with the hag... So it can only be good, if sometimes, killers get also asked.
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Edit: And sorry devs for sounding "bitter", but it is hard those days to be not a bit upset as pre patch Legion main.
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Bhvr has already give 2 comments to the Legion situation.
Comment 1# was mainly just copy&paste the patch notes and some sweet words around it, as would Legion mains not have read the patch notes or understand them.
The problem is; -we have understand them -_-... And thats why nobody was ok with that comment.
Comment 2# had more a individual writing style and mainly they said, that the Legion is not on their map for the moment.
That's ok, but hopefully they don't forget us. At least that should be really hard by all those threads.
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I have only 2 times camp in hundrets of matches, but...
Would I still playing today, I would camp in nearly every match.
Why?
With every nerf that comes in for the killer I like to play, I would feel me more and more pressed into "despaired tactics".
And I am not ashamed of having this mindset... Afterall, the survivors coming mainly with the nerf threads to killers up, not the killers shrugs his shoulders.
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@prayer_survivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/596004#Comment_596004
Rank 20 survivors of today are the future of this game. No players->dead game
You can say something similar to nearly every other multiplayer game and still those games have their learning curves, are sometimes difficult, maybe unfair and depending on the situation you are in - op.
Just because a game is difficult, doesn't mean that everybody is running away.
Imo, the opposit is true, because many people search a challenge. I have even seen those type of players in dbd. So not everyone goes for the easiest way possible.
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For esports, dbd first would need to be balanced and the best would be, balanced with swf in mind, since swf is the "highest" teamplay in dbd.
The killer nerfs in the last months should anybody tell that bhvr don't aim for esports, since the devs nerf more and more killers, so that they are no danger for good swf teams anymore.
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@prayer_survivor said:
In low levels challenges for killers is not get 4k
And since all players only play at rank 20 and also the matchmaking let you only play against rank 20 and not already red ranks if the engine just search long enough...
Oh, wait! I have make there a mistake!
In dbd is more as just rank 20 and you get also in low ranks matched with the red ones :).
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I can not see any rational reason anymore for those nerfs. Especially the pig nerfs, but also the Legion ones. Maybe all killers are in danger now to get nerfed, everytime a good killer main stomped the guy that is responsible for the nerfs.
Poor nurse then, if they ever meet a good one. They will stomp here so deep that she will come out on the other site of the earth after that.
Someone really need them to explain the concept of "challenges in games"^^.
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@Condorloco_26 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/594628#Comment_594628
You're talking about robbers, rapers, child abusers, real life serial killers and such, right?
I would have bet on politicans and american game journalists^^.
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@Jonathanskilz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592810#Comment_592810
I dont think there was any counter to old legion yeah sure you can drop pallet on him but if you are still in frealzy the timer went still down and the legion could just look away and eventually you go down or just keep m1 even if he missed... I dont personally watch any tutorials cause i found it really booring i never did the dbd turorial untill after like 1kh into the game cause i found out dbd mobile tutorial had a rewrd xd but i appriciate people doing tutorial incase. I always liked when the killer was meeming around a bit and when they gave you hatch and stuff like that it was very nice of killers who do that :P going to rank 1-4 is something i never really like to do cause you just go against the same people over and over agian @Talmeer btw tag the name to the person cause otherwise they dont see a respong :P
Uh, is that so? I thought, to quote someone would already enough for this... @Jonathanskilz :P :D.
But you never learn out...
There was more counterplay but on the other hand, what makes it sense now, as long as the old Legion not comes back? The counterplay before was just something for people that have exactly know what they are doing. It was for sure nothing for someone who just liked to have a quite and more chilling, maybe more forgiving match.
And there is nothing wrong on it, but imo a good game should be able to satisfy both type of players.
I still hope that they undone the patch, or parts of it, so that I can have fun again with the Legion and also survivors who had like to play matches with that... little "extra pressure" :).
Sounds almost like advertising from the Fallout companies:D. Still I mean it so...
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@Jonathanskilz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592593#Comment_592593
@Nobu I did cinda think that aswell on what you said. The bad players moved away from legion and good ones started just dident wanna say that to be rude to other who used to play him xd.
I think he is fine as he is right now i see Devs playing him on their life stream and they are really enjoying him pesonally i think he is more fun to play against and vs against because he actuelly has as counter now.
The default Legion had already before counter. But I will not write a tutorial again for that, nor link to tutorial videos. If someone really wanna know this, google, or use the youtube search, or even the searchengine in this forums is your friend.
I have make 1 time the error, to waste 30min+ for a survivor, to write him a tutorial and to search for another one a tutorial video, just to get the sentence back like this: "I have only read the first sentence for now and I will not read more, because I don't wanna do this."
Imagine you are in a wow progress guild and you are staying for a boss and a new guild member says: "I don't wanna read tutorials about this new boss".
The reaction of my guildleaders was always to show them the door if they not ->immediately<- start reading the freaking tutorial, or view a tutorial videos and it was good so, because the people that write tutorials take their time to help someone. If someone just denies the work of someone other, on this way is sort of offensive imo. Fire with fire, end of story.
What me matters, -> I don't know if I was good or bad. I have not even ask me that myself, because my aim was to have fun in a match. I was the sort of "killer" that grabs someone up and walks with him to a hook, just too move then further to the gates.
I have most times no one kill, on purpose. Of course sometimes I had someone killed, either because I wanted to, or by "accident".*
*Accident as example if it was a 2v1 and I had hook one survivor up, because I thought that the other survivor would safe this hooked survivor then, but the free survivor refuses then to do it.
I believe the highes rank I ever was, was rank 4-6 if I remember correctly, but I had most time hang around at rank 15 because it turns out... Letting survivors survive on purpose is pretty bad for your ranking :).
I don't if that makes me to a good killer, or a bad one. Personal I had never thought of this much and I honestly don't care since the matchmaking even on rank 15 let you play against red ranks. Imo the ranks doesn't matter as long as it is like it is now (that is not a rant, having a red one in a match is fun, because of a challenge).
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@Jonathanskilz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591799#Comment_591799
@OKUL_COCUGU he was changed for the health of the game and he is going to stay like he is. Also there is proven stats by the devs that the killer aka how many kills he got more kills on new legion then the old legion.
For the health of the game can't be a true value because its a argument we can see from different angles.
As example, it can't be from a other angle healthy for the game, when survivors complaining that the Legion is no challenge anymore. It can't be healthy to the game, that people have stop playing the game after the patch (like me) and it can't be healthy to the game, that potential new customers don't buy the game, or the Legion dlc, because they read, or hear about the difference between as what the Legion is advertised and what she is today (like my friends).
Besides, -I don't care if I kill every survivor, or non in a match at the first place, but for what I care is having fun in a chase and I don't have fun in a chase when I see a Ace Visconti running away for me, while I as a young adult in a frenzy state and I also have no fun, when I get stunned for a freaking miss hit, no matter if that missing hit was on purpose (to be a more stabby stabby like in the movies), or not.