SuperMunchkin95
SuperMunchkin95
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- SuperMunchkin95
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@Xernoton said:
I'm not sure this really qualifies as a mind game. You hope the killer has a rough time and try to annoy them so they'll go for you instead of your team mates. It's the same as the killer hitting you on the hook: Unnecessary.
Also, most teabags don't happen until the survivors made it to the gates. Is that a mind game as well?
Yes.
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@Boons123 said:
It seems like a more profitable way to make skins for the thirsty to buy than to make skins that fit their story, and this is evident in the latest killer we got.
And what next they might make a killer who wears nothing but ripped underwear and with a sexual appearance and then call him "wild - ruthless - and others" and this is the worst way to explain the horror of any character
Well, the majority of the community was clear, "We want more terrifying killers," and in my opinion, they should be terrifying in their appearance as well, and the way they move is frightening, and not just their story.
This is absolutely not an attack on the developers
I want to show how much I resent thirsty people who change the identity of the game to satisfy their desire
well I can agree if their just adding it for the money, but if it actually fits in with the lore, I wouldn't mind at all... Because I don't like when they send that obvious, "Look at this skin, oh and she's sexy!" I would like it if they make the lore so her outfits would match up, then it doesn't feel like a thirsty cash-grab. I think I speak for almost all of us that sexy isn't bad, just when there's no other reason.
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@fisticuffs said:
unnerving presence benefits survivors keep giving them great skill checks for gens and bonus progression
septic touch is nonexistent
distressing is so trash why even exist?
overwhelming presence is underwhelming
dissolution
remove these perks or buff them
Doesn't the infamous Impossible skill check Doctor need Overwhelming Presence?
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417469#Comment_3417469
Except you can't kick it if they are working on it.
2 Survivors on a 90% gen and the Killer literally has 0 power to stop it. Nothing.
That should not happen in a game where the Killer is supposed to be the power role.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417524#Comment_3417524
It's not a nerf. It's a change to make it more fair.
It is fair you had at least 90 seconds (A full generator) to do something.
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@leviivel said:
wanted to quickly talk about exhaustion perks and how Lithe and Overcome need nerfs/reworks.
I think it should be clear as day as to why Sprint Burst is fair but Lithe and Overcome aren’t:
SB can partially handicap you due to your higher amounts of walking around to save it. Ntm, the 99-ing SB tactic still requires you to recover from exhausted and then keep at that without interrupting it (making you possibly indirectly do gens less). Sprint Burst has actual skill and balance attached because it isn’t like old DH which was on command ready when necessary.
Lithe on the other hand, is BS. There’s very little skill attached to it due to it barely handicapping you (if it all). One vault and boom, you get a 50% speed boost. Always during chase which means that a killer has already spent time chasing you and then you cuck them over and punish them by vaulting once, unlike SB which usually starts before/early (unless you 99, but as mentioned, that requires more effort).
Overcome just needs a complete overhaul because it encourages hit and run gameplay with less commitment to chases (which people find boring as 90% of the community has told me). Also, zero disadvantages. Z E R O. Unless you count the exhausted effect, it has zero downsides as as soon as you get injured, you get a speed boost, making it effective in coordinated play if the killer leaves since they can just get to an ally quicker.
the other exhaustion perks currently are fine, Smash hit and Head on have fair conditions. Balanced landing is a bit on the rocky side because it so extremely map dependent, but it’s passable.
TL;DR:
SB is fair and Skillful, Lithe is more problematic, Overcome encourages boring play and should be changed. Other exhaustion perks are fine.
So Lithe is an exhaustion perk, but your issue with it is that it too easy to use, but you said that you chased a survivor for a while then boom, Lithe. That doesn't add up because if the chase lasted a minute, no doubt they had to use at least one vault or pallet vault, which Lithe wouldn't be relevant because the survivor is exhausted, or did they use nothing for the entire time then decided to Lithe outta there? Just doesn't make any sense.
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@NoHookDC said:
First, Gen Kicking:
It's annoying when you go to stop 2+ Survivors working on a 90% gen, and you, as the Killer, literally can't. You hit or grab 1 Survivor, and the others just keep working. Nothing you can do, even though Killer is supposedly the 'power role'.
So, my fix:
If the Killer does the Kick generator action; It forces all Survivors off that generator.
Naturally, any Perk that applies effects outside of the kick itself DO NOT ACTIVATE.
- You don't get Ruin's effect.
- You don't get that perk effect that blocks a gen if Survivors leave it.
- All you get is whatever is applied on kick, be that base regression, or Pop, or whatever else is applied via the 'damage generator action'. NOTHING ELSE.
This needs to happen because it's BS that the 'power role' can walk up to a generator and Survivors can point and laugh while they finish it, because currently, Repair Generator has higher priority over Damage Generator.
Now, to fix Gen Tapping:
- If Survivors start working on a kicked generator; Regression is paused and repairs go as normal.
- Within 4-8 seconds, one of the Survivors working on the gen will be given a skillcheck. If they hit it; regression is stopped for that gen, even if they now leave. They also get all the perks of hitting that skillcheck, as per normal.
- If the Survivor fails the skillcheck; they are punished as per normal. And, within another 4-8 seconds, another Survivor working on the gen will be given another skillcheck to hit.
- If all Survivors stop working on the gen before succeeding at the skillcheck, either by leaving before getting it, or after failing it; The gen resumes regressing.
This change should happen because gen kicking, on its own, is weak and almost useless. And Survivors can, literally, sprint past a generator, hipcheck it, and keep running. Why does their half-second animation end regression, but it takes Killers 3 seconds to apply it?
it's the strategy in the game, if your complaining on this specific scenario, then get to the gen BEFORE 90% I don't we should nerf this because you showed up a minute late, that's a little bit ridiculous.
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@pseudechis said:
I enjoy the game of cat and mouse.
If survivors are hiding scared it means you are doing something right as killer.
Cocky survivors whom get in your face is fine too but it can be so un-immersive.
This game shines when it resembles a genuine survival horror and that requires survivors to be running scared for the most part.
well I wouldn't consider it un-immersive because the game is around Trials, there's horror but in a world where you know what's going on that this is some hunger games? and they're aware what happens and what to do? That's the kind of immersion I like, everything in the game is exactly what's in their world... (Like how Dark Souls has an excuse for every game mechanic in their lore?! THAT INCREDIBLE)
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@Akumakaji said:
Because the Empathy for the other side in the killer population is WAY more higher, like in order of magnitutes, then the other way around. Usually when the killer is winning the last survivor will over their item as a last ditch effort to wave the white flag, show that they give up and ask for mercy and they still have a decend chance that the killer will accept this.
On the other hand, when the survivors are totally dominating and the killer got no chance of completing their own objective, the survivors will rarely shrug it off, quietly do their objective and just leave. At the very least there will be constant vaults in order to provoke the killer to move or flashlight clickety clicks and very often at least one survivor who stays in the game till the very last second, for no reason at all. The number of mercy kills I got are in no proportion to the amount of hatches I have given or BM I recieved when I gave up.
But eh, this turned more into a rant then anything else ^_- Its my honest opinion that way more killer mains also play survivor at least at a 70/30 rate, then survivor mains playing killers, and it shows in the way most of the player base threats the other side and can empathise with them. Unless I played some really toxic players, I nearly alway accept a surrender and item given and let them escape either through the hatch or open the exit gates in peace, unless I try for the adept achievment of a new killer or got some "destroyer of hope - hook survivors during the EGC" challenges. And I would wish for general survivor population to at least just leave, instead of wasting hours of everyones life at the exit gates. Maybe BHVR should give the killer an option to lay low their weapon?
It's just a gesture toward the killer, like teabagging but it doesn't send THAT type of message. but it sends a message, unless he's running Franklin's Demise... then he don't care, he hook.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
How is it possible considering:
- each gen takes 90 seconds
- there is walk time and time to find gens
- Hex Ruin and Thana were slowing gens
- killer was disrupting survivors
- a survivor was slugged half of the time
- survivors were doing tapes
- Only 1 BNP and toolbox
I'm not a professional, but it looked like he was doing a lot of hit and run, which is fine considering he has Thanaphobia, but it seemed like the survivors knew he was doing that so instead they just did generators.
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@Sharby said:
I personally find it to be extremely unfun to play vs, especially in an uncoordinated team. And I've hated it even during the gen-kick meta. But I've seen several praises for it so I thought I'd have a directed conversation about it.
Before the dead-hard nerf, anti-healing builds centered around this playstyle were tolerable because if I had good timing I could force a 2-healthstate chase anyways. I know how to play injured and can usually hold my own even without DH.
After the nerf though, on certain maps, it feels so tiresome having a 0.1s window to react to a silent bell wraith 1-tapping you from around the corner. And its gotten to the point where I usually just go next after they hook me.
The only counter and probably the reason why the strat isn't viable in a competitive setting is just to have all 4 survivors spread out and communicate when they see the killer. This obviously rarely ever happens in solo-queue. And its super frustrating to just watch a team bleed-out from everyone being too scared to touch gens.
I do think the strategy should be nerfed, but only after killers are given an alternative meta. Which at present there isn't one, so I'm very understanding.
Thoughts?
As a survivor, Wraith hasn't been a problem for me, simply call when he is uncloaking (Almost guaranteed if you are at a pallet or window) and gain distance. He'll catch up quickly, but you just negated his speed boost, not allowing him to hit and run.
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@NoHookDC said:
Survivors: We need something basekit to combat tunneling!
BHVR: Here's Borrowed Time basekit.
Survivors: Cool! We'll use it to body-block the Killer & prevent them from going after our unhooker!
Killer downs the bodyblocker.
Survivors: What!? BT did not work; I'm still being tunneled! Give us more basekit perks!
Honestly; I'm so frustrated with being screamed 'TUNNELER!' at because the unhooked Survivor literally prevented me from switching targets, then thought they still deserve to run away.
Like, why would I hit Mr. Bodyblocker, then let them flee so I can 2-hit someone else...instead of just hitting them again so I can put them right back up on that hook. How does this logic work, Survivors?
well they have basekit BT which I think is what you're saying, bodyblockers get toxic becuase they bodyblocked you just enough to wait out BT, so why go for the healthy one? I usually don't do the bodyblocking because I would rather hit the bodyblocker so he would be in the same boat (as the unhooked survivor) The bigger question is are YOU toxic for doing that? no, many might consider that tunnelling. But they're the reason why you were able to down them.
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@BooperDooper said:
There are many changes needed right now to address the extremely unfair/unfun parts of the game right now. The state of this game currently just isn't it.
- Wider doorways and/or more exits near hooks. Killer's should not be able to block people from getting saves. This is an issue in places like basement, the stairs aren't wide enough depending on the killer and can just stand in the doorway to block anyone from going. Another place is the outside front area in RPD, there are only two entrances and the killer can stand and block anyone from entering to get the save, this area wouldn't be a problem with a swf and two people can come from either side but in solo q, that person is doomed. I'm sure there are more examples but these are the 2 I thought of.
- Hooks should not be able to spawn on the second floor of eerie crow, killers especially ranged killers or 1 hit down killers benefit from spots like this when camping, they get a top view and there is only two way to get to the hook, this makes it an extremely difficult spot to get a save from someone like huntress.
- Gen progression perks. Since some gen regression has been addressed, it would be great to address the opposite of that. And just make overall gen regression and progression less prevalent and overwhelming for either side.
- A SEARCH BAR for perks.
- Debuffs for Swfs, depending if it's a 3 man or 4 man, the bigger the debuff on gen progression, nothing crazy just a little base debuff to make the match a little more tolerable and possible for the killer.
- Base anti tunneling and camping mechanics and/or incentivise not tunneling & camping and/or bigger punishment to bloodpoints and xp earned for tunneling & camping. Another possibility is removing the killers power within a small radius of the hook.
- Healthy hook grabs are a no. Was a mechanic made long ago that should not happen anymore with how the game is currently. If a killer is camping hook, you should be able to definitely get the save and trade instead of getting grabbed and dropped, then the person dying on the hook.
- Slugging... survivors should not be able to be slugged for 4 minutes being bled out by a toxic killer or a stubborn killer looking to get a 4k. Survivors should have a base unbreakable after they've been slugged for half their bleed out timer, so the killer is either forced to hook in that time or deal with the survivor getting up. The opposite of that would be a bleed out button after certain time of being slugged, so you can quickly off yourself if you are waiting a while or want to give the other survivor in a 2v1 a chance for hatch.
These are just some of the things that came to mind, I'm sure there are more urgent things needed. Feel free to add to the discussion.
Why don't they just make the bleed out timer 3-4 minutes long, and reset it when they get picked up/hooked. and for hardcore slugging, have it if they bleed out the killer doesn't get any bloodpoints.
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@Agent_Himbo said:
Stop telling tunneled and facecamped players to just be happy they bought 3 random strangers time. They won the game at your expense, you get no reward, you're not given some medal for looping the killer for 5 gens but dying to NOED, BHVR doesn't send you a pony because you sat there being held hostage while a face camping Bubba stared into your soul.
I'm sorry you're so bad at the game the only way you have of winning is to take advantage a teammate is being tunneled and that's why you got a free escape, it's beyond disgusting to tell the player that got a loss, barely any bloodpoints and had a bad time to just be happy that You escaped.
If you think people play videogames to see random strangers win and get a defeat screen, then why don't you play killer and let all 4 survivors escape all the time? Oh right, literally nobody tells killers to enjoy losing because 4 random strangers won, nobody tells the crying baby killer to take pleasure on the wins of random strangers.
I don't play videogames so other people win while I lose, i don't live vicariously through other people's victories, i feel bad for people who do.
I understand this is a game, but if that's how you'll act to a team, it sounds like you have the problem. I'm not justifying random survivors, but I would be cheering if my team got out except me. I don't measure my team's success by my own. You look at the leaderboard and if your dead, you write it off as the worst game ever. And besides the fun is in the chases. I'm a maniac in DBD and that's what I love doing. So if I get tunneled, who cares? no one else is getting downed then I count that as a win. (But I do agree that you should get a bit more Bloodpoints for each survivor escape.)
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
Myers has generally been one of my mains for a long time but I never tried Ghostface. I finally tried him and it seems like he does most of what Michael does...but better. Anyone else feel this way?
I really hope myers gets tweaked up soon though
I play on console so ghostface looks and feels awkward with the leaning. Myers is a little easier because he just has to stand there and stalks.
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@Nos37 said:
He shows up out of nowhere, uncloaks, wins the chase. Cloaks, catches up, uncloaks, wins the chase. Repeat until all the survivors are dead.
Pallets don't do anything. Windows don't do anything. Hiding doesn't work. My team just loses.
Some Wraiths would try to mindgame you on loops so run away from them right as they uncloak and he'll waste all the speed boost re-catching up.
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I wouldn't mind this, but I like the storytelling they've got going on here. For We're Gonna Live Forever, it says "Your few friends deserve the best protection" I know that is super small, but that shows the developers care for even the smallest detail.
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@avoidsaten said:
Making it when u reach tier 3 makes every lockers blocked by the entity making it fair for people trying get that hard trophy..
I love achievements, but I don't think we should rework Myers over a trophy.
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@SheKimochiTTV said:
I was thinking of the idea of a survivor perk that is similar to the reassurance but in this case it depends on the game play of the killer. This will get rid of killers that camp on hook. This could be a perk that can be activated by completing a task, and in turn the killer won't be able to stay in a certain radius or the survivor will get automatic reassurance until the killer leaves to a certain radius. The killer can however counter play this my bring make your choice, which will in turn stop them from camping, but they may lead to slugging instead which will probably drown out some games but with the disconnect timer it should not be a problem. What do you guys think?
I like the brainstorming but the last thing BHVR should do is solve the meta by adding perks to specifically counter that strategy. Reworking perks are fine but if this did happen, it'll feel like Yu-Gi-Oh! with the overload of cards that just counter each other.
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@Cleverotter said:
they want balance in their game
Yes
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@AdaWongSpy said:
Dear behavior I hope you can patch this where killers are required to pick us up . Because they can just drop and down us all and let us bleed out and we can’t counter that . Totem perk they breaks it and unbreakable is only one time thing so then what ?? It’s nothing we can do after that we’re done for could you please fix that because it’s annoying and immature and childish all because they’re about to lose that means leave us down ?? Why can’t we be upset because they have iron grasp or agitation ?? We literally have to pair 4 perks plus offerings to counter atleast one killer perk. Boil over , flip flop , tenacity , breakdown . Just to counter iron grasp yet along with someone else using breakout to even get down and also petrified oak as well . Please do something about this ASAP they shouldn’t be able to do that how is this not problematic?? Also what about Michael and that mori idk how many times I get killed without even being hooked and all he has to do is expose one person and he can kill everyone and end of the match like that .
if all of you nearby then that's kinda on you, killers aren't just gonna pick up with other survivors around, and if they're going for a hard slug, then they either have to stay around the downed survivor, or go check the gens. I don't have a problem with slugging, even when it is devastating. Only thing that I can see is the killer simply isn't just going to pickup immediately if your near.
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@That_One_Friend said:
Help. No Mither sucks
I mean Dead Har- oh.... yeah u right it suks
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409764#Comment_3409764
Medkit = 1 use, 2 max
Self-care = game duration
32 seconds would be basically equal to altruistic healing.
So there was self-healing nerf, just to buff different self-healing perk? What's that logic.
The healing changes were needed, but now it's easier to just get a brown med-kit, the value of this perk now is irrelevant. I think Self-Care should heal faster than the med-kits, if not then make it special it it's own way. A perk can be bad but there's almost zero reason to run this perk.
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@Dennis1242 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3409610#Comment_3409610
I don't know how am I supposed to adapt to this. There is no fun in sweating and playing dirty to win. Where did the casual killer matches where I didn't need to stress too much about gens being done fast? It is almost impossible to be in a chase longer than 20 or 30 seconds and not have a gen or almost a gen done. I don't get it, everything was better before this update.
I understand if you don't want to sweat, but your a single killer, you can't just have a "low stress" game. There's a lot the killer has to take care of. besides you power and you perks, you are the one who judges the Trial's pace, now survivors have their little way of setting the pace, there's four of them. I could understand if you love playing killer, but if you are looking for "low stress" games, stick to survivor. They're expendable, not everything is on you, and the team shares some of the torture and the gnashing.
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@liamdicaprio said:
most of us prob know that dead hard went extinct since the last patch. now what i dont get is that dh has one of the most powerful counters of all time and can be explained in 3 simple words... WAIT IT OUT, the only thing you need to do as a killer is to have some patience, now not only do you get a kill you also learn more about playing as a killer.
if you are complaining about dh you are prob not that good at the game and heres why. if you are a good survivor main and knows how to play dh really skillfull you can pull many dh in a single game, but if your not a skillful surv. chances are you are not going to pull it off cause you dont know how to bait/time it right a dh if you are in a dead zone as an example. i would argue that dh has prob the biggest learning curve in the game and that is a perk that actually shows of your skill, how good you can read the killers thaughts and next move. but again at some point you use your dh even if you faked it 11 times and if you as killer have patience you can get an easy down, now back to the present not being able to have dh at the start of the trial is just dumb, and to restrict it to 2 times 70% of the times you dont even pull it off, you see people have learnt the biggest outplaying to dh is wait it out, so they still do even after the patch, i think its dumb and ofc sb also has a learning curve but not nearly ass hard to learn as dh.
now after you read this essay about dead hard i would appreciate your thaughts of what i just wrote.
ik now my english is not the best but if you are wondering about anything just respond and ill try to make it clearer:D
in this situation, yeah I could agree with you, but I think most killers would say its the forcing your move that's annoying. in a deadzone you simply wait for the Dead Hard, but trying that on jungle gyms are a bit harder as you have to be certain. you can't wait for him to use it, you have to swing if they are going to a vault/pallet no matter if they do have it.
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@MSX_exe said:
I wanted to start off with the meta shift back in 6.1.0 where you made a bunch of changes to many perks, and overall you did a good job, but I feel like when you make changes to perk, you make bad changes for the wrong reasons.
When you make perk changes, you have to take these things into consideration:
•Is the perk unfun to go against?
•Is the perk necessary to bring?
•Is the perk too powerful?
•Is the perk easily accessible?
Looking at stats alone is a horrible way to make perk changes, just take a look at Spine Chill. What is the actual point of that perk even? Now that the visual terror radius is an accessibility option, there's no point in Spine Chill being a perk at this point. Literally whispers for survivor. The old Spine Chill was FINE, you should've just removed the vault bonus, that's it, because people at high level used it just for that, therefore, let's ask these questions and let's pretend that it's old Spine Chill:
•Is Spine Chill unfun to go against?
-Yes when it affected the vaulting speed
•Is the perk necessary to bring?
-Not at all
•Is the perk too powerful?
-Far from it
•Is Spine Chill easily accessible?
-Yes, it is free
So why did it even need a change in the first place? That perk was actually killed. Don't get me wrong, some of the changes you did were good, like Ruin, Corrupt, Iron will, etc. but the perk changes that don't sit right with me are Decisive Strike and Self-Care.
Let's talk Self-Care first and get it out of the way. The reason why Self-Care was used so much because it was accessible, a starter perk, and new players wanted a reliable way to heal, but at a slower speed. If 32 seconds of self healing wasn't bad enough, you for some reason decide to make it 45. The reasoning being: "This perk is powerful if it's used in the right hands". Behaviour, that's true of EVERY perk, not just Self-Care. And let's not mention the fact that you changed Botany Knowledge JUST because Self-Care was nerfed. These are, I'm sorry to say, bad changes.
Now, Decisive Strike. Oh boy, what were you thinking? I'm not going to mention the change that it deactivated when the gates are powered, that can stay, I agree with that. But the stun??? Why? That stun time is so bad that you literally incentivised tunneling even more than before. Nobody's afraid of a 3 second stun from Decisive which isn't a 3 second stun anyway, you have 1.18 seconds of fall stagger before gaining momentum, that's horrible. The choice of the stun time is absolutely horrible, many killers can catch up right after a stun, the stun is so bad, that I really don't know what went through your guys' heads when doing that. What was the reason for that? The statistics? Can you get opinions from people who are really good and unbiased for perk changes?
Take a look at this: https://youtu.be/lU-3xoUeOiE
Watch that video and try to convince me that the Decisive Strike stun should remain at "3 seconds". Out of all of the changes to perks, that might be the worst one you did. That is borderline useless. And you gain no distance whatsoever after the stun that you're ALWAYS the main target. So much for an "anti tunneling perk". REVERT DECISIVE STRIKE TO A 5 SECOND STUN!
Let's quickly mention Off the Record. How can you change Pain Resonance and Circle of healing because they were a jack of all trades, but then make Off the Record exactly that? It doesn't make sense. Another horrible change, Off the Record should NOT have Endurance. Also another bad change, Dead Hard. The most problematic things about that perk was that you had to wait several seconds for each down, and DH at pallets is nearly uncounterable. What did you decide to do? Not make it work first chase. It's still the same perk, you haven't changed the perk at all, it STILL retains the problematic aspects of it, you just made a lazy change to it instead of reworking it fully like the perk deserves. Give it 2 months max, it will climb back into the meta AGAIN. Meta for another 2 years because why not?
With all of these changes to gen regression perks and the change to Decisive Strike, you somehow made people "genrush" so much easier, but also made tunneling more frequent than it's ever been. Behaviour, for your sake, I really hope that you make meaningful changes to the meta, because some perks, despite their high usage rate, need to stay.
I'm done for now, please take a look at the perks you changed, and revert some necessary changes to them.
I agree, Self-Care right now has been nerfed because of self healing... which self healing needed the nerf, but on the other hand it's still a perk. I took up a perk slot for this and it would be better to heal with a brown med-kit? I think Self-Care should heal you in 32 seconds.
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You can't nerf a literal brand new part are you guys dumb if you know how to put it in then it should fix alot of stuff
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@utm said:
To start, I will say that I have been playing dbd since 2019 and have nearly 3k hours in game. I mainly play solo queue survivor + some killer and swf. I'm here to provide suggestions to improve the game.
I was motivated to make this post because I will likely not be playing anymore due to how the game design has been directed in the last year or so, and how what was a fun game for me turned into something disappointing.
There are 3 main reasons for this:
1) tunnelling being the optimal strategy for killers
2) matchmaking & the swf / solo queue imbalance
3) poor timing of in-game events
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TLDR: incorporate a simple mechanic that rewards killers for unique hooks / rewards survivors when their team experiences tunnelling
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Problems:
1) It is clear that tunnelling is the best strategy to win as killer. As a survivor, it is not fun when you get tunnelled, particularly when your team is winning, and a killer decides to tunnel to get an easy win. I can understand that it's nice to have an easier way to win against a good team, but this ties into matchmaking issues (see pt. 2).
Mechanics that encourage players to be eliminated early from a game are avoided/ameliorated in other games (think among us, most online shooters, board games, etc.), precisely because they don't allow a player to participate fully in the game. Nobody likes this in any game, yet it's been encouraged by game mechanics in dbd, especially in the last year. See the (second) DS nerf (the main thing that survivors had to prevent themselves from getting tunnelled).
2) The steps to improve the balance between swf / solo queue were a great step for dbd. Still, the imbalance between swf and solo queue is present. This is exaggerated in solo queue, as teammates in a single match have a wide variety of experience levels. Anyone who has played the game, killer or survivor, knows that variability in match skill is very high. I've seen BHVR employees on here saying that most matches feature MMRs that are close. This suggests that there is a problem with MMR calculation (or not enough people playing the game). MMR should reflect abilities in chases, gen pressure efficiency, and general high level strategy (which is likely only loosely correlated with kills/escapes, due to tunnelling meta). Playing against killers that are not experienced in chases / gen pressure but still win due to tunnelling is demoralizing, and likely imbalances matchmaking. Improving MMR calculation should help with this.
3) This point features a number of design choices - namely hook state, healing, and gen times. Firstly, hook states are short given gen times + healing times. Killers can choose to face-camp the first survivor and will be guaranteed at least a 2k if played correctly (especially with the increase in gen times last summer - the math is straightforward). This isn't an engaging way to play for either side... This is exacerbated in solo queue, as doing gens / working together on unhooks is hard to coordinate.
The updated healing changes are mostly healthy for the game - COH was too powerful. The other changes were certainly interesting, given that kill rates are well above 50%. It will certainly be worse for solo queue players that have a hard time finding other teammates to get heals.
Finally, gen times - they are too variable. On one end of the spectrum, survivors can bring gen rushing perks and toolboxes / brand new parts, and on the other end of the spectrum, killers can multiple passive gen regression perks. For game health, the amount of variability in gen progression should be mainly affected by pressure from both sides (not items or perks).
There are other things that could be improved (killer imbalances, map rng, some perk combos, etc.) but I'm sure they've been discussed elsewhere.
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Solution:
There is a very simple solution to greatly improve game health, and it's very easy to implement!
1) Decrease gen speed for each new unique hook (maybe 10% each)
2) Increase gen speeds greatly for 2nd and 3rd hooks on the same survivor (maybe ~10% and 45%, respectively, non-cumulative)
3) Finally, to ensure face-camping doesn't become meta: increase hook state times if killer is near hook
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A mechanic like this would provide multiple benefits:
1) Killers are rewarded for spreading out hooks early to prevent gen speeds from increasing (i.e. early game tunnelling is naturally less effective / discouraged)
2) Survivors will be less effective at completing multiple gens early in the game, but more effective when a survivor is sacrificed (whereas currently, for example, escaping a 3v1 with 2 gens left is very improbable). This gives both sides a better chance at turning the tables throughout the game.
3) Matches will be less lopsided by weaker teammates, as consecutive hooks will increase gen speed.
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Consider this scenario with realistic (no tunnelling) hooking:
Initial gen speed: 100%
i) Survivors complete 1st gen when killer gets 1st unique hook (gen speed: 100%)
ii) Survivors complete 2nd gen when killer gets 3rd unique hook (gen speed: 80%)
iii) Survivors complete 3rd gen when killer gets 6th hook, two non-unique (gen speed: 90%)
iv) Survivors complete 4th gen when killer gets 8th hook, one survivor sacrificed, two 2nd stage (gen speed: 135%)
v) Survivors complete 5th gen when killer gets 10th hook, 2 survivors sacrificed, 2 2nd stage (gen speed: irrelevant)
Here, killers will have a large advantage in early game, making it easier to get hooks before gens are completed. Once many hooks are made, and a 3v1 is reached, survivors will have an advantage compared to the current 3v1 scenario. While this is a big speed increase for 3v1, the initial decrease should balance this, especially since a 4v1 has ~2 survivors on gens at all times, while a 3v1 usually only has 1.
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Now, consider a scenario where the killer tunnels one survivor:
initial gen speed: 100%
i) Survivors complete 1st gen when killer gets 1st unique hook (gen speed: 100%)
ii) Survivors complete 2nd gen when killer gets 2nd hook on same survivor (gen speed: 110%)
iii) Survivors complete 3rd gen when killer gets 3rd hook, one survivor sacrificed (gen speed: 145%)
iv) Survivors complete 4th gen when killer gets 6th hook, one survivor sacrificed, 1 2nd stage (gen speed: 125%)
v) Survivors complete 5th gen when killer gets 10th hook, 2 survivors sacrificed, 2 2nd stage (gen speed: irrelevant)
In this case, survivors get a speed boost on gens when a killer tunnels, instead of the decrease they would experience when a killer does not tunnel. Here, when there are 2 gens left in a 3v1, the gen speed is now 145%.
___
I think implementing some sort of mechanic like this would greatly improve game health. Some notes:
- Of course the numbers I suggested are just guesses - they'd need to be optimized to make the game balanced.
- Matchmaking based on kills / escapes would be more reflective of ability to down survivors quickly / evade the killer, rather than your ability to tunnel one survivor / stop a killer from tunnelling (but matchmaking should still take into account efficiency)
- This would naturally lead to more balance between solo queue and swf
- The 3rd problem I listed would still exist, but would be much less exaggerated
___
Hope people like this idea! Suggestions / comments are more than welcome!
I have to give you credit for how in-depth this is. On paper this sounds amazing to solve the problem, but I feel like a massive rework to gen perks has to happen.
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Maybe have it work like Bloodlust, but give hindered or something.
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@Robotfangirl67 said:
I hate to sound hypocritical right now. But I get kind of annoyed by what feels like I’m the only one getting mori. I mean I know that people can be jerks and I know others had dealt with I dealt with. I guess you can say I’m just tired of entitled people since that all I’ve been dealing with a lot lately. I know this weird of me to complain about solo survivor experience over then killer. I But yeah I can see why solo survivor can definitely suck sometimes. Sorry for ranting and rambling again. I appreciate those who have read this post.
Edit: I was just rambling for the sack of rambling. I’m trying not to do as much so I will try to be better not to that especially for certain subjects.Sorry for wasting all your time. Thank you for your patience and understanding and hope you all have a great rest of your night.
I've noticed that some streamers are kinda dumb and put their entire Twitch address as their username... and sometimes it isn't sniping but people would do that to you just because they can see your a streamer. (I don't hate streamers just it is kinda dumb for them to complain about how people won't leave them alone yet their username is the Twitch address)
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I think Left 4 Dead would be an awesome chapter... having a Tank as a killer with his theme blasting throughout the Trial
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405638#Comment_3405638
If survivor use it, but if he didn't you can't lunge. It's free DH for survivor.
You need to get close and try flick your camera or something to bait it.
That makes every chase longer than needed because of perk survivor don't even need to use.
Or just attack and hope for the best, but if survivor DH you just made this chase +/- 20 seconds longer.
most survivors are jumpy... sometimes you'll run into survivors who won't fall for that but for the 0.5 you can't really predict if the killer is gonna swing, unless they know for sure like if they can't make a vault or pallet.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405464#Comment_3405464
What the hell?
You think that using deadhard is some peak of skill?
It's random gamble if you can't react. So killer can't use lunge and waste 4 seconds each chase, because of this perk.
But there is not much extra value for the game.
You can still use it, when you need it so much. What you want is still same, you just won't use it so often, but that shouldn't matter for you. Unless you want it simply because perk was really good for survivor.
you could wait the 0.5 of a second that Dead Hard is active... it works for me and I started to play killer a few weeks ago
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@RedSonSuperman23 said:
I was hyped for the new update and all of a sudden I fooled myself. Its been 8 games n ive tried adding different perks and add ons. I used onryo, hag and ghostface and all I gotten was between quad n 1 k. Why? Ill tell you why.
Survivors buffed perks ive been seeing a lot lately which are:
1. Well make it
2. Resilience
3. Prove tyself
4. Windows opportunity
5. Balance landing
6. Sprint burst
7. Off the record
8. Unbreakable
9. Lithe
10. Breakdown
11. Hyperfocus
12. Reasurrance
Every game i get gen rushes, lots of swtfs, survivors looking and chasing ghostface while stalking, body blocks a lot, hags traps interupt im groups, long loops with pallets in middle harder enough that bloodlust doesnt show up till last min. Most of killers r completely nerfed n weak that doesnt last stopping from gen rush. Im so upset with this. Dont get me wrong I like playing both sides but if Im seeing survivors winning most of the time due to that, then its clear that killers r not same as balanced w survivors. I think this game its too survivors sided probably since the day they reworked ghostface n legion but then after things have gotten horribly to me. I felt like I wasted my whole time and money hoping devs come up with better balance, better perks even comunication but as far for 2023, I dont find this game fun and enjoyable at all.
You've been getting games that ended between a quad and 1k? well that just sound like a bunch of normal games...
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@jamally093 said:
Okay I could be running the killer around for let's say two gens that's my record of gen running I end up on hook and so on I get rescued and healed and start having to run the killer again now here's the kicker a teammate could see I'm injured and just turns a blind eye completely healthy but they still turn a blind eye. Now if I'm playing killer the complete opposite happens even if it isn't the survivors will protect even then it could be two separate SWF or just four random people. Why do I always end up with players who don't protect me or is it because I'm solo q so I'm not priority.
It's probably that the gens were the priority, some cases survivors choose to heal rather than finishing the objective, and that could be the game if you don''t see it.
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@MichitaRoyal said:
What is with this game and making it so freaking difficult to survive a game if you have no friends to play with? If 1 survivor dies too early in the game, say 4 gens, then you might as well just give up because it takes no time at all for the killer to patrol and too much time to finish the rest of the gens as 3 survivors. Only time I see it working is if 1 survivor is some god at running away and even then it's super slim because we're not all pros. Killer I have no issues winning and losing games every now and then, but man after playing survivor I almost feel bad playing killer. I feel there's lots of players like me who are newer at this game and it just seems ridiculous how hard it is when just 1 player is fairly new. Aka, scared of the killer so messes up running away and gets tunneled out of the game really early.
well survivors are a little but more expendable. Don't be so hard on yourself... you think people in Mortal Kombat learn how to play the game in a few days? Not only that but your said yourself that your making mistakes... so don't worry too much.
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@GgamerG said:
Predicted this would happen. The last thing we needed was to buff SWF. I know many survivors will say "but statistics..." SWF can use callouts to their advantage by where to find a totem, the best place to put it, and when to call for a buddy to run over to heal them INSANELY QUICKLY. I thought we were trying to get rid of the healing meta.
I don't expect any changes for a while, seeing as how CoH was just nerfed for solo, and I still remember how long it took BHVR to change OoO 🙄
Before the nerf, Circle of Healing was never FOR solo... I mean, the perk has a range for multiple survivors
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
Im not advocating for it to be nerfed. Lithe has been my main exhaustion perk since 2021. Used it over sprint burst and old dead hard. Now its gonna be used more and i have already seen people complaining about the perk. So when are the gonna nerf it? Im gonna miss it being under the radar
no matter what perk is at the top, people gonna complain about it... Lithe is a strong perk that everyone else should accept. It's that or something like Dead Hard...
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@PhilipJFry177 said:
I really don't care about the medkit changes. CoH should have remained with a penalty. The killer can use shattered hope of they really want to eliminate the boons. Playing solo without CoH is hard when you can't communicate with other players.
I guess pallets are broken because the killer can just Spirit Fury, Enduring. Or I guess Fearmonger is broken because you can't use any exhaustion/aura perks... what I'm saying is you can't simply rule something out because the killer can counter with a perk, of course they could man.
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@NerdyK said:
I was a strong survivor main for the longest because I always found playing killer to be mundane and unfulfilling. Playing as the killer isn't necessarily easy, mechanically it's difficult -- you're in FP view and have to traverse around the map playing hide & seek against four other people. There is no killer who was good on their first time playing, even against noob survivors. But after awhile you will get use to the movement, the anticipation, and predicting how to beat the survivor who simply can't outpace you, only misdirect you.
Playing as survivor is remarkably more challenging, and to me it's exhilarating. In a 1v1 we absolutely do not stand a chance, we can do the longest run in history with a killer -- but it doesn't mean you'll escape, without teamwork. Communication-less teamwork. If your teammates are not working on a generator everything you do is in vain. If you're running the killer around a critical generator, or maybe a healing survivor, everything you do is in vain. I'm no pro looper either, it's actually insanely difficult to reach the level of some survivor mains who can genuinely loop a killer indefinitely with just vaults. Because it requires near perfect timing and decision making.
Killer has just been so easy, "Oops I missed, I'll just swing again since it only takes .5 seconds to recuperate." Against non high level survivors its genuinely not fun, or fair -- I just feel bad. I'm truly in shock by the amount of killer mains who resort to underhanded tactics like camping, tunneling, slugging as if it's not already easy enough -- then try to justify it saying "There's nothing wrong with this style of play the killers job is to kill." it really is just sad and unbelievably toxic.
When I'm playing against really good survivors who loop the ######### out of me and blast through generators, it's so much more fun -- cause I'm forced to strategize more then just use my brute strength and speed to win. And I know what they're doing might look easy, but it's actually really difficult to pull off cause their margin of allowable error is miniscule.
But I write all this to point out I'm done being a survivor main, because the devs are making it painfully clear the only issues they're willing to tackle are killer related. They will do almost anything to make the lives of a killer, EVEN EASIER. They will nerf anything that gives survivors a competitive edge, where their only hope is banding together in silence to complete a task that takes a bare minimum of 7 mins to complete. A killer can end the entire game in literally less then 30 seconds. Killer complain and complain, "This is too hard, this is unfair, they have this and it's too much for me to juggle." OF COURSE ITS GOING TO BE HARD. You CANNOT expect every single game to go in your favor just because you are stronger and faster. You ARE NOT suppose to be able to beat 4 people. That is literally THE POINT. But devs continue to go weak knee, because a small pool of survivors are incredible at what they do -- so all the other newer noob survivors have to suffer. Pro survivors on their team also have to suffer because now the bar has been raised even higher for survivors, and it's already pretty damn high. They're no ranked matches either, you can't even join a lobby with other players of your caliber -- Ik the ranking system is just BS. You can get to Iri just but playing a lot.
At this point, I don't even see a reason to rework my build and strategy as a survivor. The devs won't even address real issues like hitbox after swinging, striking someone after they've vaulted and sprinted 5 meters already. Once I got just randomly got hit when someone took a protection hit for me, and I guess I was so close to the cell the game just said fock it, he's hit too. These are serious playability issues that just make the game very unfun for survivors, but I realize they will never be acknowledged even. So I'll just become the best killer I can be and continue to dwell in unfulfilling boredom.
[end rant]
For what I've read I feel this explains how balanced the game is... the first piece you've said that survivors need teamwork to succeed, even in their longest chase. Same with killer most don't see that .5 seconds after a miss... I don't sometimes but that looks to me that may show a lot of toxicity, but it also shows we're a little bit unclear with the overall power of both survivor and killer. And what happens if we are unclear who's broken? WELL NOBODY! (hitboxes are an issue though)
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@AnchorTea said:
Title. Killer is such a high-pressure experience that I am completely drained after 5 or so matches. To try to prevent this I make things manageable by having gen-regression builds but I hate how I need them to feel like I have a chance of winning. I start to feel so resentful to survivors that I'd BM sometimes. I had the urge to facecamp someone during end game.
I don't want to play a game out of hatred/spite. How can I manage this?
I just got every survivor perk in the game so I've been getting the killer teachables. I had to understand that I'm only one person If I stop, the entire game stop. Verses the survivor side were you can be a little bit expendable.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
This needs to be changed. Please make it so that when you get 1 Prestige on ANY character, the auto bloodwebbing option gets permanently unlocked for all current and future characters.
If you make it so that we have to go through bloodwebs manually, node by node on EVERY character, until they're Prestige 1, this is gonna frustrate a lot of people. And it is totally unnecessary. Imagine a new chapter comes out, they are 2 or 3 new characters, we have bloodpoints saved up, and we have to put them in ..... node by node. What a damper.
I'm sure this is just an oversight. Getting first Prestige 1 on a character in the game by manually doing the nodes is all new players need to familiarize themselves with the bloodwebbing.
I think the auto-bloodweb system is ridiculous, for me I don't play much killer so this system is alright since survivors only need perks and offerings (i go for items but they're not the most important) but for killer, I feel like it would matter more... and I would't like the game choosing a perk over a fun add-on. I do like the fact that you can go right for a node instead of the usual one node after another.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3402409#Comment_3402409
If all gens are done then it's deactivated, for a good reason as already stated several times in this topic.
I said all gens but one...
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@HungrySnek said:
So, yesterday I had the same scenario a few times and it's absolutely stupid. I am playing a bloodpoint build because I want to hit the 2 Millionen Mark before the new Bloodweb Update goes life.
So I bring Decisive Strike, Deliverance, Prove Thyself and Kindred
The gens where completed pretty quickly since the killer chased one survivor for the whole match. So the end game starts and the survivor get's hooked, I trade with them since the killer Camps him. Then I get unhooked and.....Decisive Strike is deactivated because it's the endgame and I get tunneled again.
I don't understand how this change is fair. So the survivors gets punished because the killer wasn't able to spread pressure or hook me before?
Decisive Strike works only 1 time, is only activated for 60 seconds and deactivats itself anyway when you do a Action. Why this stupid "It's the end game so your perk is worthless" crap?
I feel like Decisive Strike should get less stun for each generator... so if all generators but one are done you get 3 seconds. I dunno... maybe
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@Rickprado said:
Hi guys! Hope you are doing fine!!
So, i've been wondering something about our DBD Community: why when people say some changes will affect "casual players" most of the time they are making reference to casual survivors? There is no casual killers?
Whats your thoughts? Can killer be casual?? Or playing killer requires a hardcore mindset??
I wouldn't say hardcore but some killer gotta keep in mind that there's four survivors.. so I think killers can be casual, just not compared to survivors casual.
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I think Vigil should completely get rid of all status effects except exhaustion and cursed, within the 8 meters anyway. if there's a continuous effect in play (NOED, Plaything) once you leave the zone the effect is re-applied.
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@Mystic_Mizu said:
Wow I actually don't like these. I'm disappointed.
I do like that Mikaela outfit and the last Skull Merchant one though. Those are cool.
they do look good... and the Mad Max ones too :)
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@BigSwood said:
I'm not talking about stuff like the Holiday Sweaters you can only get around Christmas, I'm talking cosmetics where once they're gone, you can't get them again, ever.
When I started playing in 2018, I unlocked the Free Songbird shirt for Kate during the Summer BBQ event. It didn't look great, but felt special because it marked the time I started playing with a simple token for a Survivor I liked. Fast forward a year or so, BHVR had a little back and forth where they said they would, then wouldn't, then would release the event cosmetics to all players. I don't have a source, but I also felt like BHVR said somewhere that they wanted to move away from limited cosmetics. I was fine with all of this.
There were a bunch of crowns added at the various Anniversaries, which never returned. It made sense since they were themed around those particular events, and I was ok with this since they were each just a pretty basic halo to mark the occasions.
Later in 2022, BHVR announces the Deep Rift, special levels added onto the end of each Premium Rift Track with retextured and recoloured cosmetics that would never be available again. This was the point where I realised BHVR were gonna be intent on capitalising on FOMO. Other rifts did have limited items, but in the form of charms, which felt more fair and less like I was missing out on something unique for a character I liked.
It feels sucky for me, since what was special to me was given out to all players, and it seemed like BHVR was taking steps to make sure there were no more limited cosmetics (like with things from the rift returning to the shop after a year). And now they're clearly back. With the upcoming Tome, the limited Deep Rift stuff will also be more visually distinct instead of just recolours and retextures, meaning players could miss out on something very cool and unique. Wondering if anyone else has thoughts on this.
(Made some edits based on discussion)
I agree, Holiday cosmetics are acceptable, but the event outfits?! Why even if your just gonna to give it away?
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@lollllll said:
Can someone explain to me how you’re supposed to counter wraith? i’ve been going against a lot of wraiths recently and they all chase me for no more than 20 seconds then leave so of course i go do a gen and they come out of no where and before i can get to any loop or anything they’ve already uncloacked and get a free down. What are you supposed to do? a 360 and hope it works? most also bring fearmonger so no dh or sprint burst, it’s even worse when they bring the add on that makes their bell silent. the only counter i can think of is being healed all game but even then you have to keep finding survivors to heal you and it’s bad when it’s down to 2 people.
Some Wraiths try to abuse the wind storm at a pallet, Just run away if they attempt to do that.
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@RareFantom47 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399527#Comment_3399527
I think some Hexes should be made weaker, such as Devour and NOED, while others are buffed, such as Retribution and Huntress Lullaby. I believe Hexes could act like Boons, the killer can ignite totems around the map, but only once per hex perk. So, in order to activate NOED, the killer has to go to a totem and activate NOED. But for things such as Plaything or Face the Darkness, those are really good as to how they activate.
So, if not base kit shattered hope, a thing I think should happen, is that in order to get rid of a Hex, the totem needs to be cleansed, not blessed. Blessing a totem can deactivate the perk, certainly, but when the boon is snuffed, the hex should reactivate. The Boon can act as a shield against the Hex, and the Boon can even be empowered by the Hex, making the Boon stronger
That sounds like a good concept, Blessing a hex totem would deactivate it until the totem has been snuffed. Cleanse the totem if you want to get rid of the perk.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399488#Comment_3399488
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399503#Comment_3399503
Most boons already have weak effects that do not provide a substantial advantage; there is B: Circle of Healing, but it is getting nerfed/reworked in the next update anyways (check Developer Update for more information).
B: Exponential is strong but also weak, since it entirely counters slugging to snowball but it requires it to have good placement (which means it can easily be snuffed out) OR a spot where the Killer will not snuff it (but you have to spend a long time crawling, which means you just just be bleed out much easier).
B: Shadow Step and B: Dark Theory have the issues where you have to lead the Killer to your Boon to get value; this leads to the Killer just being able to snuff it out before providing any form of value. And also while B: Shadow Step has a decent effect; most people think that B: Dark Theory's 2% Haste is laughably bad... it kind of is, youre better of running Hope... coming from a Hope enjoyer.
This would nerf already weak effects.
Instead. I think Hexes should be buffed, as a lot of them are mediocre, and since Hexes are by design suppose to be "glass cannon" perks, they should be strong.
Snice killers can't choose their location of their hex perk I could see making hex perks more powerful. But I actually run with Dark Theory and Shadow Step. The value to me is just enough, you run over to your boon, the killer clearly sees that there is Shadow Step in play, if he goes for the boon simply run away. The scratch marks are hidden and if you really want to you could just reboon if you stay... he wouldn't know unless your injured.