SquirrelKnight
SquirrelKnight
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- SquirrelKnight
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Killers: Why can survivors hold the game hostage by hiding.
Survivors: UGH STOP TUNNELING CAMPING PROXYCAMPING GEN-CAMPING EXITGATE CAMPING AND JUST SEARCH FOR US, BUT DONT SEARCH FOR US IF YOU HURT US RECENTLY OR ELSE YOU ARE A TUNNELER AND CAMPER!
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People say these forums are killer biased, but holy crap some of these DC excusers are disgusting.
"You did too well, I deserve to have an easy game and escape, why should I have to wait"
Most team vs games have DC penalties because it screws everyone over. Try playing LoL or Paladins or Identity V.
These games have DC because rude people dodge the game because someone gets mad and doesnt want the other side to have fun.
Thats ultimately the reason for DCs in this game (With exceptions of system errors and outages.) Its ok for survivors to DC because the killer was having fun and they got mad
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Reading this thread boils down the question nicely.
Survivors should get free 4 escapes
Killers shouldnt be allowed to 4k because its mean.
If survivors do 5 gens then the killer has to sit there and do nothing because survivors DESERVE THE FREE BABYYY WIN
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I love the gameplay, love the design and the killers are super cool
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We gotta remember, people screamed and ranted about how billy was so broken and op even when the devs said he was in a good spot, then they caved and nerfed him. So naturally they will go from one killer to another because killer is an unfair role
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1585170#Comment_1585170
Two things.
- I think killers get stronger as the match goes on, not weaker. The farthest gen usually gets done first which shrinks the amount of area they have to patrol. And even if the survivors space the gens out, patrolling 3 or 4 gens is a lot easier by default than patrolling the 7 that start on the map. Plus pallets get used early so some places that would be good loops in early game simply become extra dead zones later in the match.
- I'm not sure if you meant BT or Unbreakable at the end of your post because Unbreakable + DS is usually the combo people complain about.
My bad, it was early i was thinking unbreakable. And it kinda depends on who gets stronger. If survivors stealth and have more pallets and crap id say they do better later.but i get your point 👍
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Gonna make this a shorter post.
Killers and survivors both have resources to manage.
Survivors: Pallets, Windows, Loops
Killers: Time
Survivors have to know how long it takes to get to loop or window or pallet and keep track of how many pallets they have left.
Killers have to be able to manage their time efficiently or they lose the game, the faster the survivors go, the worse the killer has it.
DS (especially with BT) wastes the killers time, either the killer eats the DS wasting minimum of 20s just to redown his last survivor, or the killer has to wait 60 seconds before picking up the person he downed, possibly even picking themselves up and running off.
With more than one of these the killer loses at minimum a full minute of progress in a game where normal matches take between 5-10 minutes. Survivors time pressure on the otherhand is lessened by the fact that excluding endgame builds, killers grow weaker as the match goes on, as the gates open up, as the hatch becomes available.
Most matches end between 5-7 minutes and with thise short time frames, yes DS (In its current state) is extraordinarily powerful and the only ways to keep it from activating is to simply not play the game and let the survivor go.
TL;DR DS in itself wouldnt be a problem but with BT and with the game.in its current state it is tremendously strong, and when combined with BT has no effective counterplay. The only thing you can do is take the punishment for them having it or not play the game.
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The ability to hold games hostage has (to my knowledge) always been a "survivor strat" to make the killer DC. Its a problem i used to run into about every third game.
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"I dont get it, i teabag at pallets when she isnt moving and I went down. This is obviously overpowered and should be removed from the game."
"Its wrong that i should have to be quiet, pallets and windows are useless because i cant loop her indefinitely at them"
"UGH SHE HAS NO COUNTERS SHE PUTS ON STRIDER AMD IT GIVES HER ONEHIT DOWNS INFINITE WALLHACKS AND THE POWER OF FLIGHT THIS IS SO UNFAIR"
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Escape attempts are fine, i dont see why thats a problem really. Suiciding on hook on the other hand really isnt cool. Being able to screw your team just sucks, it denies killers the hook points, and yet, somehow is even abused so when 2 people are left, it lets the fourth person get the hatch.
Again, i dont mind escaping, but the fact that suiciding has such a major impact at every stage of the game is awful
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569582#Comment_1569582
As is literally every survivor nerf for "killer fun", of which there have been and will continue to be much more of for obvious reasons.
Not quite true. A lot of the changes for survivor over the years have been because of insane gamebreaking abilities. Superfast healing, no window blocks so infinite vaults, Old flashlights. All of these were labeled as balance changes. Killers are the main group to get changed for "fun" not saying that nerfs arent deserved or anything, but wording and intent is important.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1569448#Comment_1569448
You do realise that this is not, in fact, a competitive game and, as such, requires it to appeal to the widest range of players because, as we all know, there is some absulutely laughable crap that both sides can utilise.
Please take your competitive mindset back to the competitive gaming world. This is DBD, where losing is absolutely fun if you had an enjoyable experience because it is low stakes. However, amongst other things, killers with uncounterable chase mechanics are not actually "fun" for anyone but the killer and those rare masochists who call themselves "competitive gamers."
Also, the Devs do in fact take balancing tips from people that want to enjoy the game. This is something that they constantly reiterate in every balancing discussion or announcement.
BHVR does take a lot of consideration into fun. Its why most killer nerfs were labeled as needed for "survivor fun"
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I watched a video basically saying "If i cant t-bag and rofl stomp a killer by going from pallet to pallet mindlessly they are boring unfun and op
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As long as the placement is forgiving for totems this is an amazing idea, bravo 👍👏
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If totems were actually hidden, it wouldnt be as bad. The problem is "hidden" means placed in a corner or against a wall. Not, in a box, covered by brush, or obscured
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I cant see myself ever running this hex, its so specific in how it affects survivors, it has a cooldown which means at hook defense it is useless, heck a body blocked hit and suddenly its on cooldown in a bad spot for you. Definitely on certain maps its..... Useable...... But this is one that, in its current state, i am going to be ignoring on the bloodweb
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@RakimSockem said:
It's wild that people complain about the current "meta" perks for survivors but are also so opposed to survivors getting new perks that are actually good and usable.
Why do you think the meta isn't changing????
People keep hyping Soul Guard as the best survivor perk survivors got in the last year (it's trash outside of a SWF game with coordination) Inner Strength and For the People are much better. Hell Repressed Alliance is a much better perk playing solo.
Everyone should want new strong perk introduced on both sides. Killers actually got perks this chapter than can become meta and replace current meta perks.
Survivors got ######### and these perks will literally never be meta and will barely get any use so you're just going to see the same things you've seen for years.
The meta isnt changing, not because new perks are all bad. Its because the big meta perks for survivor are SO overwhelmingly good that it makes all new perks seem bad in comparison. "Is this better than DS+Unbreakable? No? Then its trash."
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@Goldwheels057 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1105052#Comment_1105052
I guess me being brand new to the already pretty much dead game getting 2 rank 4, a 6 and a 19 survive with friends and getting looped all day long and me leaving warrants me being punished as well huh.. GREAT game.. get stuck on rocks, ######### matchmaking, and get punished for getting people I should not even be playing to begin with.. refunding this pile of garbage
Wow, one post brand new and already acting entitled as hell, Gj
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@Iceman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1552844#Comment_1552844
That don't seem perk worthy lol
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1552849#Comment_1552849
huh?
What i mean is that they will remove rooms with breakable walls, or make them easier to amneuver. Sorry i didnt make that clear thats my b
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They wont be able to "break doors" but they will just make no room that doesnt have 2/3 exits. Killers could bodyblock and prevent people from leaving and survivors will scream once someone gets stuck in a room and has to go down.
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Survivor seems like fun for me actually. I just dont depend on my teammates. I do whatever i want. Then again i didnt get the game to play survivor so outside of missions j basically dont play survivor
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@IMilkNobody said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1545960#Comment_1545960
you are right but it is very rare you will ever see a marth 88 depip squad
Eeeeehh you dont see the depip squads as much but the new strategy "meta" seems to be, ignore everything but gens, during chase dump pallets, leave. Nit that thats all "bad" cause it is a part of the objective. It just doesn't leave a lot of room for survivor killer interaction, at least that isnt pallet stun, pallet stun, pallet stun, smack.
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@IMilkNobody said:
Do you know what gen rushings is? If so please define it
When survivors build specifically towards rushing gens as fast as they can and nothing else. Often matched with 4 toolboxes, but it involves never opening boxes, not doing totems and in a chase dropping every pallet you see.
It is frustrating to play against, nit because "we cant 5 gen curb stomp" but because we have to play as hard as we can to get a tie in many of these matches.
There is minimal interaction, the survivors get furious when they get downed (in come all the NOED complaints) and it is unpleasant to play in. While it is fully possible to win these games, killers have to play a far more difficult game than survivors.
TL;DR Gen rushing is ignoring literally everything to run gens, including totems, unhooks, chests etc... And its a pain to deal with unless you are a real great player, but for average players its frustrating and annoying
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1543919#Comment_1543919
Traps still activate in the gate, if they are active.
Ooh okay, thats.. still less interesting but i guess works
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I dunno if the engine could handle it, also opposed skill checks are weird. That being said fk yeah thats kickbutt
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As far as Im aware, the only reason people took issue with the pig was becauze of her traps. Traps that when gens were done started ticking down till death. It is literally to discourage gen rushing.
Problem is, since gen rushing is the favorite tactic (by gen rushing i mean ignoring totems and even igmoring unhooks unless overly blatantly safe) survivors have a tendency to get angry when they cant do a generator and instead have to remove traps.
This led to her biggest (and in my opinion uncalled for) nerf. The traps not activating when people leave through the exit gates with them. I understand it being bypassed for tje hatch, i disagree with it but i understand it. Making her traps not go off by the exit gates was a TREMENDOUS nerf and it makes the pig much less fun for me to play. The traps are supposed to be timewasters yes, but also they are supposed to feel urgent, threatening, something to that affect.
If noone has a ticking trap on them while there is only one gen undone the traps may as well do.nothing because after opening that exit gate theres no consequences for being lazy in removing traps.
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@Pipefish said:
Lmao I hope the devs implement this as a killer main so we can get pages and pages of butthurt threads 🤣
As bad as these changes are, you gotta.look.on the bright side. It'd be a hilarious balance, and totally not backfire at all
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DS in its current state is a highly abusable perk, and shiuld be changed, at the least to not work once you are on a generator or in a locker.
That being said DS wont get changed because it is considered in a good state by the devs. Granted so was Billy pre-nerf but there is a history of going easier on survivors than killers.
Before anyone comes in with "BuT sUrViVoRs GEt nErfEd tOoOoOooOooOOoOOO," im.not saying that noone gets nerfed. Just as far as balance goes, survivors have been kn the higher end of power since the games inception, its closer than it ever has been buuuuuuuttt... That still doesn't mean that we are "balanced"
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@BabyDweetMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1542887#Comment_1542887
LMAO I'm entitled while you're the crybaby complaining about perks that make it harder for you to get kills. You arent entitled to get kills. Maybe you're the one who needs to get good mate.
I play both killer and survivor. As someone who's been playing on PC for years and recently picked up console, I can say for a FACT that 75% of killers tunnel and camp wether you are man enough to admit it or not.
DS is literally made as a anti tunneling perk and can only be used once per survivor. Most of the time, only 2 or 3 survivors per match would have it, and that's even saying they hit DS. Make it a goal as a killer to focus on all survivors equally. Then you'll be constantly applying pressure to the whole team, not just one person. And you'll get kills faster and more frequently.
Drop the entitlement. You arent entitled to an easy kill so stop crying about having to play the game.
Killers dont get easy kills, but baby survivors get free escapes all the time, DS, borrowed time, adrenaline, SO MANY free chances to walk away like nothing happened. Imagine if a killer had a perk that made it if you swing within 10 meters of a survivor during a chase, it would register as a hit even if you missed. Or a perk that if a survivor was rescued, would remove the second hook state so next time they get hooked they die?
That is exactly what survivors get and at the end of the day it is babying players. Why should anyone have to learn to play the game if you can just slap on DS/Unbreakable and remove interaction and consequence
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@Masochistic_Killer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1541756#Comment_1541756
Why? If I spend more time reading the forums of a game I don't play I know it's time to play something else. It's been this way countless times. I don't get the lurking for something you never play though.
Mainly its cause i am still interested in it and want the game to get better. Its just i get tired of some of the stuff in it, most of my friends dontnplay any more soooo
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I mean..... I havent played in a while, i dont really play much anymore, just read the forums. Sorry broski/brodette
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Sorry but no, DCing isnt okay to do. That being said, if you dont wanna olay it, go sit in a corner and make.a sandwich,. Watch youtube. You dont have to play, but DCing isnt the answer.
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@ Antares2332 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1540420#Comment_1540420
The SWF should only be nerfed when they are a group of 4 people. If it is nerfed with a group of less people it will affect the solo mode, I don't like the idea of the killers being buffed instead because that will affect other games where the survivors are not in SWF
Id say 3-4 people. 2 man swfs are usually pretty chill. 3 mans screw over solo and killer. 4 man is what is brutally unfair for the killer.
SWF is needed and totally fine in concept. But the game really REALLY needs to be worked on in terms of 3-4 man swf
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Its funny that every killer should have these weird or unfun drawbacks when using their powers that go above requiring the ability to be used well. Imagine jn skyrim if you missed woth a dragon shout, the cooldown was tripled because you "missed" or if in mortal kombat you got stunned because you got blocked mid combo.
Instead of being able to play and use your abilities and have some room to breathe with them, so many killers are being put in situations where people dont want to use their powers because they are a hindrence or flat out annoying to use.
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@RakimSockem said:
Did all 4 of them have Slippery, DS, and Unbreakable or just like one or two of them.
Also good job at discouraging a meme build. Guess it's back to the meta for them. You showed them. Last time they'll ever try to meme..... -_-
Why are people so anti-fun???
They didnt go a "meme" build they used a meta build with luck offerings, having 1 non meta perk (slippery meat) does not mean that they arent running meta
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Im not good at skillchecks but i can usually hit the basic stuff. But if i actually took the time to practice i cant imagine it being too hard
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@MrDardon said:
Well, I am doing a 100 Matches each Killer at the Moment. Starting with one of the weaker Killers (Trapper) and for now I am being pretty successful so far. Out of 13 Matches, 12 were a 4k. I do not count Matches were Gens fly in 3 and a half minutes where you don't get the chance to do anything, because against those People even Spirit would've lost so that's not Trapper himself, and Matches were People dc right at the start of the Match, because counting that as a 4k would be stupid.
And still, like I said, he is one of the weaker Killers. If you play each Killer as efficient as possible you will win most of your Matches. Killer requires more Brain Cells than Survivor but it's not as unfair as it seems when you reach a good Level.
Being bad at Killer is frustrating, but so is Survivor as well so it's not really proving anything.
Wait a sec, so you are ignoring the two biggest complaints? Gen rushing and hook sacrifiers? Im glad you are doing well otherwise but those should be accounted for as well.
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Coraline? I think so. The Other mother? Terrible killer. Heavy camping play style that would get her nerf, plus most supernatural killers feel off in the DBD lore
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To mention some psychology into the game, we are taught (most of us anyway) from a really young age to hate the "bad guy". In other games there isnt a defined "bad guy" Red v Blue, Coke V Pepsi. Neither of these are inherently bad. DBD however, does have a defined "Bad guy" The Killer.
Because of that it enables a lot more toxicity than you might normally see because through the minds of 4 of the people playing in a match, there is a "Bad guy" who is ruining their fun. They can be mean to them all they want and make them suffer because its ok. In return they start to be toxic back.
Of course this could have been fixed early on but instead of that, the devs said that salt and toxicity is part of the game and if you dont like it go play civ. Ill admit, besides forum surfing i basically went back to skyrim.
TL;DR Players started being toxic cause game encourages targetting, devs laughed and said deal with it or leave.
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Because hatch is a free win with the only requirement being that everyine else dies first. Because to quote family guy "Only dicks dont let babies win"
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1511268#Comment_1511268
It receives just as much flack if not more than NOED does. People really hate the combo.
Wouldnt say it gets as much flak. Id say it gets close to it but the biggest difference is DS/UB, while a hated combo, never got the stigma of only being use by "bad killers that cant actually kill anyone otherwise"
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I have always had mixed feelings on this. On one hand invisible traps are really annoying and kinda cheap feeling. On the otherhand..... Without the darkening addon they stick out like a sore thumb wherever theyd be useful to place. Even with the darkening addon some maps just are really unfriendly to his traps. Honestly without this "bug" i dont really see his traps working out half as good as they are now.....
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2017 Dbd was so incredibly dumb that i had to drop the game for a year and a half before even thinking about coming back to it. Still not super impressed but at least they are making a playable game.
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I feel like people see a killer that is frustrating and rather than understand how she works, how her phasing works and rather than thinking about what she has to give up she gets a catchall OP term slapped on her
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Anything that advantages the killer is something that the devs dont really want to implement. Thats what the worry is is that auras will be super easy to read and op.
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It would be less of an issue if killers werent the major way to counter certain playstyles
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These changes make perfect sense if we assume the community wants killers underperforming across the board.
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Thats a massive fade and too close to the map color. Dats a hard nerf to every aura perk
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1472775#Comment_1472775
It's only a few killers fault. Because Freddy, or Billy can deal with it easily. It was the go to answer whenever someone took issue with it. Just play Billy. Just play Spirit. You don't see the correlation between the two?
They'll have to focus on it with a dwindling number of characters who can deal with it.
I've questioned it before and survivor players don't want a mechanic that punishes them for doing well, and neither does killer. So where does the compromise come in?
So far the only "compromise" ive ever really seen is that killers should be giving up more because it impacts fewer people
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Nurse is a broken killer riddled with bugs. Gen rush is not the killers fault, its another hurdle of the several safety nets that survivors have. Gen rush the game, cant genrush? Just run pallet to pallet and drop them mindlessly because they are everywhere, still got downed? That's fine, just use DS, SB, DH, and once the last gen is done reap your Adrenaline crutch and t-bag out the door.