SpringMyTrap
SpringMyTrap
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968494#Comment_3968494
these people unironically thinking the game will become better if they just massively nerf killer's macro skillcap like this and let it be and pat each other on heads for saying how silly killers dare demand alternatives for whole strategies devs plan to effectively make useless
Alternately, I don't believe that people are nearly as skilled as they think they are at this game. There are an awful lot of "one trick ponies" that only camp and tunnel or only slug, and haven't learned anything else.
Ideally, if BHVR does it correctly, they should be able to target the excessive uses of these strategies, and leave the situational, or end game, uses largely alone. What that looks like, no one knows yet, and we can barely speculate what that might be.
I honestly argue that this isn't lowering the skill cap, it's raising the skill floor. And to reinforce that people aren't as skilled as they think they are at this game: one of the biggest indicators of "mastery" in anything is being able to adapt. The better you are at something, anything, the more you can accept handicaps or restrictions and still perform.
they dont realize that this is going to play out exactly as mandy said then - people will drop in mmr and will end up in lobbies where they can play without optimizing hooks and pressure.
So if you think that "meaningfully addressing camping and tunneling" is going to lower people's MMR, I agree. Because people can't easily adapt and have used those strategies to boost themselves for years. That's the literal definition of a crutch.
Ideally, solving these issues will make games less sweaty for killers also, as they are facing opponents closer to their actual skill level. It will take a while, and it will take losing a lot for that MMR to balance itself out after all this time. Most people won't accept that, since losing is anathema to a lot of killer players here.
We might end up losing some people, but I've been assured (aggressively) on these forums that killers can adapt to anything, while survivors can't. So I guess we may or may not see that in action.
I'm honestly not sure where you think noob stomping is coming into play here, since people will settle into a skill bracket where they can handle whatever system is put into place in phase 2. I honestly suspect that there will be a period of "settling" as killers lose MMR to more closely be matched to their appropriate skill levels, and then things will largely proceed from there with 60% kill rates.
And, as a reminder, we don't know what that is at this point. So any "the sky is falling" is entirely unjustified yet.
BHVR are already not doing it correctly because instead of changing the flawed design, they punish people for using it. Your very premise right here is already wrong.
"this isn't lowering skillcap, it's raising the skill floor".
This accomplishes both. You can accomplish objectively less if you dont optimize stages, dont mindlessly pick, dont leave good positions. This is the definition of a lower skillcap. There are less ways in my skill can be expressed and yield results because I have less options and leverages.
You are capable of less. The game isn't offering an alternative. The worst is that the game isn't addressing the actual core issue that most of these strategies propagate - onesided hopeless matches. It tries to script killer's macro skill expression and force them into playing in a streamlined way when it should be scripting the very flow of the match, making each stage (1v4,1v3,1v2,1v1) more fair even if the circumstances around it werent. 1v4 should be tremendously nerfed, 1v3 should stay the same or be buffed depending on how many hook stages killer scored on each person before getting a kill, 1v2 should be buffed, 1v1 should be reworked.
And speaking of raising skill floor, you kindly listed numerous buffs that killers got in compensation of the nerfs. Care to tell me, how many of these buffs added to raising skill cap and how many added to decreasing skill floor? What part of, for example, +10 seconds on generators made killers put more skill for higher reward? And what part of it just bluntly gave killers more time to stomp bad players? And how many of these buffs just added to survivors having to be "better" at the game to play around this, raising survivor skill floor?
"And to reinforce that people aren't as skilled as they think they are at this game: one of the biggest indicators of "mastery" in anything is being able to adapt. The better you are at something, anything, the more you can accept handicaps or restrictions and still perform."
They aren't really adapting, they're just making up for progressively increasing amount of missing options by leaning into the only consistent gameplan they have - slap 3-4 hook slowdown perks + 1 chase/info and win chases as fast as you can. If you can't, you lose and will eventually drop where you can.
Adapting means changing your strategy. I am adapting when I see dogshit healing meta and take franklin leverage + sloppy addon. I am adapting when I switch my gameplan from hit&run to tunnelling because people have strong reset. I am not adapting when Im losing an option and have to do the same thing but worse. Im just forced to try harder (or lose until my opponents get easy).
Speaking of that, you don't seem to get why am I calling this noobstomping. The reason is that for the whole "wholesome chungus no tunnelling/slugging/camping killer that plays only for chases" ordeal to work, the killers will need to be destroying survivors in chases, the 1v1 skill expressive interaction. This can only be accomplished in one out of two ways - unfair power or massive skillgap to consistently and successfully beat survivors in chases to get your hooks.
You can't have that when you're playing a killer with fair chase power and long average chase time vs knowledgeable player because your killer just doesnt work in a way that lets you instantly get near the target and kill them with an unavoidable skillshot. So you will need to remove or dampen down one thing out of the equation. The reality is that pretty much most killers except majority of S/high A can be ran for a decent amount of time as long as you have resources. So there you go.
For the killer to keep up without optimal macro strategies they need to be magnitudes better than the survivor at playing the chase. They need to be massively more successful as otherwise they won't have enough time to get to their 60% expected killrate as they would need to win a lot of chases before they lose the game to get their kills.
A lot of killers make up for having fair chases by having macro powers that give killers extra leverage to pressure people and make up for longer chases. You can figure that every new nerf to macro skill expression hurts these killers disproportionately compared to chaser onetricks.
And of course, since that's the goal to have people beating down worse players, we impose artificial handicap on killers so they can't just >4k3 these worse players. We don't think about the games where killers aren't facing marginally worse opponents.
Exciting gameplay of artificial difficulty while effectively legally smurfing.
Speaking of my personal experience, the games where I feel like I can play 100% fair on either of my mains is when survivors are visibly terrible and get hit by most of the tricks in the book. Beating down these people is neither fun nor difficult (though of course, gens are popping as the game goes on since im not applying pressure correctly), but I guess that's the kind of "chill killer gameplay" that we want - scripted and boring.
As I said, this whole thing is already culminating into shallow victories and hopeless defeats for killers and utterly boring one-sided gameplay for survivors because the only thing that is left for killers to play for is chase,chase,chase, while survivors can just rush gens and play for resources and good dying spots.
If you think this is healthy for the game because whatever reasons, it's your opinion, but this mentality developers are having and the design approach is why we're having such a massive gap between S tiers and everyone else, chase killers and everyone else and why killer role is becoming more and more a noobstomper role.
Yeah, we don't know what it is. It doesn't mean we can't make noise, especially when we got a glimpse of it with the chaos shuffle antislug testing that they had. It's better to talk about it as early as we can so that maybe the developer finally acknowledges that band aid systems and blanket buffs make the game worse for everyone but people who enjoy feeding their ego by getting cheap wins.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968496#Comment_3968496
Why would asking people to use game sense to optimize gameplay reduce the ways in which players can use game sense to optimize gameplay? I'd love to hear an explanation for that one
why would you be against trivializing game sense when you're already planning to remove main reward for this part of its application?
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unless devs sanction it, i'd refrain from using it, though if it works the way you said, then its not possible to track and its just up to your consciousness to use it, whether you want to trivialize hook / ds / bt tracking and take away another bit of skill from playing the killer or you actually are using it for optimizing playing suboptimally.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I'm gonna say a hard no.
Third party software is pretty closely monitored, and needs to be whitelisted. Just because it's hard to detect or police doesn't mean you should try to use it anyway.
I've been opposed to showing the killer hook stages in the past and this goes way beyond that. This is basically a replacement for game sense and game knowledge in general.
I don't honestly think that is that difficult for people to remember hook stages, or who was recently hooked. This isn't that fast paced of a game, and it's completely feasible to keep track of things like that.
People are not going to learn, and get better if they just have a tool that does it for them.
But putting up timers? That's way too far.
The fact that this reads pixels means you could do nearly anything. It could keep track of each players loadout for you. It could generate a live mini map of the randomly generated tiles and show you which totems and gen spawns you got.
It could reveal the auras of gens you've passed by, and show you roughly what percentage they're at. For survivors you could literally read the exact percentage, which is basically adding several perks to your character simply by adding the "mod".
You could also, in theory, give yourself windows or just have it draw out the path you should take to loop a given tile. You could do nearly anything with "reading pixels" and "sampling audio", because that's automating the same inputs the player receives.
So no. If you don't have the game sense or game knowledge to do this by yourself, vanilla, then you should learn it. Not just install something that allows you to bypass it and never have to be bothered to learn it.
what's this, you want killers to use game sense for optimizing stages? arent we removing game sense skill expression there? why should killers be forced to keep track of stages if optimal play regarding that is going to be patched out anyways? what's this hypocrisy lol
thou shall get good at the game but thou shall not be rewarded for it
what a circus
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the replies to the thread are such a clueless circle jerk lol
these people unironically thinking the game will become better if they just massively nerf killer's macro skillcap like this and let it be and pat each other on heads for saying how silly killers dare demand alternatives for whole strategies devs plan to effectively make useless
they dont realize that this is going to play out exactly as mandy said then - people will drop in mmr and will end up in lobbies where they can play without optimizing hooks and pressure.
anyone with at least a bit of experience should know how fast chases in such lobbies can be xd
this is gonna be fun for people who enjoy noobstomping and cheap ego validation, regardless of the role, everyone gonna get their piece
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@littlehoot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968231#Comment_3968231
Maybe we're just in different MMRs or on different servers, but I would say about one in every ten games I have against a Springtrap, a survivor uses the doors in any way. So in my experience, no, survivors don't use the doors. Of all the killers who have mechanics that survivors can or have to interact with (Xenomorph's flame turrets, Singularities zappers, etc), I see the doors used the least.
Personally, I won't touch the doors because even if you don't immediately get grabbed (unlikely), the reward is not worth the time or the risk it takes.
idk about mmr, im just saying that optimal play involves using doors vs this killer decent amount of time and pretty much every usage coincidences with a timing when he is either completely unable to do anything about it or hypothetically could but is none the wiser.
like the timing to do the door grab if you are not by the door already is insanely small, it's about 3 seconds if you actually react to whichever few poor warnings the game is capable to give you because 2 seconds from 5 second traversal animation are eaten by your own entrance animation.
assuming you even know where they're going.
that's why the whole "doors are too risky to use" sentiment is people not understand what theyre talking about, unfortunately. it's very easy to avoid door grabs EVEN IF the killer is following you as long as you have some distance on them at least / have a teammate ready to take aggro for a moment.
people are beginning to catch on and it's not going to be good for springtrap. he needs to at least not outright lose the survivor and have some warning they're about to do something.
meanwhile cams are basically obsolete, all theyre good for is making sure the killer isnt going to enter the door you're headed to, literally a matter of a 2 second check if you dont know where the killer is.
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@CatFish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968350#Comment_3968350
press ctrl its not skill
pressing m2 to dashslop forward isnt skill either so who cares
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crouch tech is one of the better forms of survivor skill expression in the game adding more depth to chases.
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people's inability to tell when they need to take a break off the videogame is a serious issue
trying to smooth them up with progressively more ridiculous hand outs is an even more serious issue as it affects the quality of the game for people who still enjoy it
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968231#Comment_3968231
they can use access panel to know but access panel is garbage since it won't work if that specific door the survivor is using is connected so you throw your axe through the door and it hits nothing
yeah, access panel is the only option, but it's really clunky.
despite that, it still does a lot to give you at least some awareness.
sadly, it doesnt really help vs more aggressive door usage like using them to get away on the other side of the map if killer will take longer than ~3 seconds to reach your location.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966804#Comment_3966804
survivors already don't use cameras. I'm the only one that does in all my survivor matches and killer games.
springtraps already get angy and try to find me; how is that not interactivity? after enough reveals they are trying to guess my camera. if you want survivors to do something you have to throw them a bone. they're not gonna play a rigged game.
survivors use doors and use them a lot, you simply have no way to know when and do anything about it.
cameras can be buffed.
springtraps "getting angry" means nothing when they have no idea where you can be because you could be anywhere near one of the 7 doors which the killer cannot check fast enough.
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chucky gets to hit right away.
way easier to use and suffers from way lower skill cap.
blight is a bit too easy to get into these days and could get sidegraded to be more difficult to play like 4.4 with speeds basekit but that's about it, the killer is fairly balanced, it's not his fault he fits way too well in the design devs are enforcing on killers.
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not really, but i dont enjoy how unbalanced his kit is atm with scamper.
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@killer998 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954511#Comment_3954511
Calm down survivor main.
i mean, he is right, they're designing the game for baby killers.
they make good killers weaker and limited while autopiloting the game for bad killers and making it easier and easier to pick it up.
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@Valimure said:
He also has no cooldown where he's slowed after throwing it, whereas Anna does. In fact, he actually gets faster after throwing it.
He also doesn't have to spend time reloading, and he has one of the fastest cross-map traversal teleports in the game.
Don't think he needs any buffs; he's honestly one of the more balanced killers on release we've had in awhile.
and he doesnt get 7 hatchets to just spam them and is actually put on a cooldown.
if he was balanced properly, he'd be 115% at all times.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967735#Comment_3967735
I mean, if you want to punish killers in any way for tunneling, then you better show killer hook stages of survivors.
I would take the trade personally, it would make 8 hooks so much easier for me.well this doesnt seem to happen so far
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blood favour shouldnt be a hex and needs to affect only the closest pallet to the survivor when you hit them.
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@Shinkiro said:
If we're going to punish killers for more optimal objective gameplay then we're going to punish survivors for optimal objective gameplay right? Right?
its only killer players who are at fault and boosted for playing optimally © mandy
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967455#Comment_3967455
To be fair, the best way to use it IS to drop it when there is already some distance regardless of add-on.
But yeah, the "disappear in plain sight" is just not happening unless you bring the iri add-on, but they are still a great stealth tool regardless. Better than half the stealth perks we have in the game, I'd say.
i just think theyre very boring without that aspect.
survivors dont need more tools for sweaty optimal minmaxing gameplay, they need more fun random things and fog vials just underdeliver there.
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oh same
bug..im sorry…feature as with finesse - the animation displaces the hitbox :) -
Will there be update on the bug status?
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@mooasis said:
imo there should be a permanent basekit repair penalty similar to gift of pain after being hooked (maybe 10% or so). this would actively encourage killers to leave an unhooked survivor as they repair slower anyway and encourage spreading hooks to slow down the pace of the entire game. there should also definitely be punishment for intentionally tunnelling as well, as the problem needs to be solved by making tunnelling inherently less efficient than other playstyles
just keep in mind that in spite of all this tunnelling should still be something the killer can do if given opportunity.
at no point there should be a scenario where survivors would rather have the killer tunnel than not.
weaponizing anti tunnel system means the system has failed and was just a nerf.
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Iri addon should be basekit, but with decreased range, while the actual addon reduces opacity and increases range back.
Fog vial baseline is borderline useless for its supposed main purpose and can only be applied in boring "optimal" ways like hiding aura / prethrowing it to mess with a few killers like spirit. The main defining trait of the fog vials which is a chance for getaway in otherwise desperate situation is not happening without the addon.
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@Dadeordye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967387#Comment_3967387
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967382#Comment_3967382
I would like for all of them to get new songs each (because everybody is probably sick of these themes), but if this is not possible for any reason or it would take time, then giving to each killer one of these would at least "mitigate" this issue.
it wouldnt because they would be listening to the same theme they were listening for years except they'd have even less variety.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967406#Comment_3967406
For sure. The game wasn't necessarily balanced ideally years ago, but the balls to the wall play certainly felt better. Now players are just as frustrated, but with more restrictions and less fun.
oh yeah.
good example is the devolution of the survivor gameplay. even though it became much more balanced, the way it was accomplished is by making solo player's agency / impact on the match much less meaningful compared to good teamwork.
you have way less power to win chases, you have to rely on teammates way more and situational / optional teamwork plays are utterly devastating but only if you're doing them with your team.
another thing is "win harder" meta. it's so difficult to make comebacks in this game and every year there are less and less options for that.
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only if it rewarded me for that.
im not hindering myself just to play against same boring tryhard meta for free
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Not very high priority compared to other killers in need, but I think xenomorph's addon set is really boring.
Xeno needs more build variety and addons dont really enable it as addons mostly serve as straight buffs to power rather than enabling gameplay variety which is only done by vaulting speed, sloppy butcher and maybe keyboard.
We need more addons for stealth, addons that work like current cat carrier - a tradeoff for losing power rather than simply punishment. Acidic blood should 100% have the same trigger condition as cat carrier for example (activates upon losing power to turret attack) and cat carrier should probably be reworked to be undetectable for exiting tunnels.
Would be lovely to have an addon that gives a burst of haste for losing power to turrets, an addon that buffs crawler mode but makes it way easier to lose it to turret attack.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967397#Comment_3967397
The bulk of balance arguments for the game almost always boil down to "rules for thee but not for me".
Truly, I don't think BHVR nor the player base really wants the game to be fun and fair. We'd have to contend with a total overhaul of the game, which BHVR certainly doesn't want to do. Beyond that, a fun game from the Survivor's perspective is wildly different from a fun game from the Killer's perspective. Give Survivors too much autonomy and Killers give up. Give Killers too much power and Survivors give up. Even something as simple as bringing solos in line with SWF via implementations like comms are given the ax any time they're suggested because the thought terrifies players.
We have to think of it like this: how do you balance a game where neither side is willing to budge, where the idea of traditional PVP elements in a PVP game is vehemently rejected, and where the developer is unwilling to dedicate enough resources to improve the game beyond tweaks and bug fixes?
you're absolutely right.
people dont want the game to be fair, they explicitly want to maintain the status quo of being able to abuse unfair things for themselves but not to deal with the unfair things the opponent has.
and it's somewhat okay in a very unhealthy way when these unfair things cancel each other out in a rock-paper-scissors manner, but for the last few years we've been basically in a situation where people that main paper demand scissors to be deleted while telling rock mains that they should just git gut against paper.
they want to feed their ego beating down real people reduced to the capacity of AI. that's immediately apparent when you just get into the game and play "big scary killer" simulator once you grasp the basics and then not so long after the roles switch when you realize that you are not meant to win fairly. any of your wins are founded on survivors consistently (thats very important, one-two ######### ups arent enough anymore) messing up the counterplay, failing interactions or their own part of the one-sided skill expression. anytime you are facing off with a roughly equal or god forbid better opponent, you can only hope they throw the game.
it's really sad that this is the direction we keep going instead of focusing on making the game more interactive and enabling fair skill expression even if it remains ultimately asymmetric. devs refuse to determine a fair win condition, devs refuse to design around win condition, devs punish for playing for win condition and blame you for playing for win condition.
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See lots of suggestions here and in other similar threads that boil down to "give survivors nuclear counterplay that eliminates tunneling as an option forcing killer to play suboptimally".
nobody tries to look into why or how the game's own design encourages tunnelling, nobody tries to suggest a rework to the system to emerge a more fun optimal strategy, just blame players for playing the game in the way you dont want them to and nerf nerf nerf.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Easy role given the current state of balance + MMR, but still naturally more stressful than survivor so any losses feel particularly bad, whereas getting 4ked by a Kaneki running the same generic Friends to the End + regression + centipede combo for the 5th time in a row just makes me feel numb.
killer is a casual noobstomper role, yeah
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@Dadeordye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967368#Comment_3967368
At least it would make them unique.
There's no variety for the other killers that already have a chase theme as well.and other killers have their own personal theme, not a generic one.
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@Dadeordye said:
The chase music could be partially fixed.
There's like 5 or 6 different chase music that are shared between Trapper, Wraith, Huntress and Plague.
Just give one of those songs to each of these killer. EXTREMELY easy to do.
Freddy, Amanda and Bubba also share these, but they are licensed which turns things a little bit difficult.so less variety for them without getting a themed chase song
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Way too easy to win against bad survivors, way too hard to win against good teams.
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Not really, kinda expected I stomp most of my lobbies because im good enough with my killers and the game cant find appropriate opposition.
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True casual mode doesnt work because it's already in the game (it's the "play" button to queue up) and is utterly abused by people running broken meta against visibly worse loadouts / opponents because the game forces people of all kinds of skill level to play basically in the same pool against all kinds of ######### no matter how unfair it is.
MMR system works only on paper, on practice it consistently puts you against opponents that are not even remotely on your skill level.
Even if it did work, the loadout disparity is astounding and unfair to the point it massively amplifies or nullifies any kind of skill difference depending on who has the better loadout.
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@PigWithTvs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967016#Comment_3967016
we do, but how many do u see of them tbh
since houndmaster release i seen her twice
heck i somewhat main her and people have no idea what do against me since and she is considered A tier
its more of the factor of are they fun and rewarding or very frustrating and rewarding
kaneki is both fun and rewarding
and the other hand…houndmaster….torture and rewarding…… i dunno why i keep playing her
but i hope u see my point here
i am talking about dracula and singularity both of which are high skill ceiling high tier killers rivaling kaneki if played well.
that's the issue with him, as point out multiple times, he's way too easy to play. his power needs to be changed in a way it's hard to use even if it will be uninteractive skill expression.
one thing for sure is that they need to get rid of scamper playstyle and incentivise bodyblocking movement plays.
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@PigWithTvs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966967#Comment_3966967
i agree scamper feels so good to use, and the hitscan ain't getting nerfed (i think bhvr said that somewhere on release?)
its just this community has gotten to mid tier to lower tier releases since wesker and now when bhvr released an A+/ S tier killer after….. quick google later 5 DAMN YEARS, now we gotta have the usual, OP OP OP PLEASE ERASE, killer dies and we are back to nurse/blight, bhvr knows how to buff but they do not know how to nerf, they either slightly nerf with no effect or just kill something
and he still struggles in some maps just like any other killer, yea gl dashing around meat plant, and the best part is the people complaing about this are probably the same who are complaing about its always just nurse/blight or (insert killer that is annoying but u see them once in a blue moon)
a new killer comes out, u spam nerf, they get nerfed or reworked 4 times, they die, people stop playing them, rinse and repeat.
its such a an annoying cycle that bhvr needs to remove, let people learn to play and im not talking about ghoul here im talking about in general
we got a bunch of high tiers, kaneki is the only one who is easy enough for many people and scamper is unfortunately one of the main purpotrators of that
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Quiet mode (the version that also hides scratchmarks) and remote hooks as perks.
Would also love a perk that globally changes hook system somehow. For example, it makes survivors share hook stages together and be unable to die from being repeatedly hooked, but makes it so that getting 8 hook stages immediately triggers the entity to claim all survivors still in the trial.
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@PigWithTvs said:
you know i would agree with you if this wasn't the billionth rant about this killer
yea we got it he gets a free hit, woopty doo
"can't hold shift for distance" well that's the whole damn point ain't it, he counters one of the most boring things for any killer without a dash to deal with
i understand he can be frustarting because of how fast he can catch up and the free hit, but that's it that's all he gets a free hit, if u play right u can outplay him in loops
just another nurse year and it will be over….
and the fact you "hate the character" because of a how they are portraited in a video game is just…..silly.
the only valid complaints about him are about scamper and really generous hitscan.
people malding about having to play injured against loopable (even with scamper unless he exploits) killer who punishes playing for distance are just bad at the game.
they're literally playing against worse blight with one less chance when it comes to this. it's not that bad.
the worst part about this whole situation is that when devs eventually remember they had an april killer release, their answer would be to nuke everything but the generous hitscan and scamper. They clearly would rather destroy ghoul's gameplay identity and movement power just so they can keep the "vault pallets" mechanic they force into too many killers, otherwise we'd had it resolved months ago.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966930#Comment_3966930
Why is it ok that this killer can teleport to hooks and have no slowdown?
Alien gets slowdown if they return to hooks where someone is hooked. Dredge cannot teleport to nearby lockers when someone is hooked. Single Larry slows down heavily if he tries to teleport back to hooks. Why is it ok for this killer to have no slowdown or cooldown? Is it because its FNAF?
i'm not saying there arent stronger killers than this bunnyman, all im saying is that there are few issues that could be fixed.
because the killer gets 4-6 seconds delay for that depending on if he was inside the door already.
and if he is already in the door nearby, he should be accumulating AFC, if he isnt, that's a bug.
"Alien gets slowdown if they return to hooks where someone is hooked."
It immediately wears off when the person is pulled. You wait for the status portrait change to "injured" and exit at normal speed and accomplish the same thing as Springtrap does with preemptive teleport if he even calls out the timing, most of the time. Not to mention xenomorph is able to track people inside tunnels to know when they're approaching the hook.
Dredge is outdated and released 2 years prior to AFC system that made developers remember they dont need to implement basekit anti camp measures.
Singularity is given penalty because he can literally look right at the hook through camera and TP for sure. That penalty also wears off immediately if they leave the range of the hook. This killer was also released before AFC system and clearly not designed with it in mind.
If none of these killers had the camping penalties they have, they would all surpass springtrap in hook camping one way or the other. If they had these penalties removed the only one who would be mildly problematic with that would be singularity.
You are making an issue that needs to be resolved with clunk bandaids out of something that isnt an issue in current state of the game.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966917#Comment_3966917
Whoever bodyblocks gets the axe in the back and grabbed in 1 second. THIS is the problem with the killer. You cannot escape that grab because he becomes faster without the axe. This killers camping and tunneling abilities are too great. I see this happen WAY too much and honest im sick of seeing this overgrown bunnyman and them camping the hooks.
I think he should be slowed down like huntress and his doors needs to be further away from gens. When someone is hooked the doors nearby shouldn't work, like with dredge. He cannot teleport to nearby lockers.
if you get the axe in the back, then you just go square one and run away yourself.
you are given about 10 seconds of running in a straight line to make it to anything.
and even if you get grabbed, then you have successfully prevented a tunnel out and did a delayed trade.
it's a non issue. you are complaining about a mediocre 2 tap killer just because he does it in a fancy way. and unlike a lot of other 2 tap killers he doesnt get to do it again immediately on the other survivor, he only gets to do it once on one target.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966809#Comment_3966809
He's a pretty damn good tunneler. The lack of slowdown from successful Axe hits is a problem, but I don't really know how to tackle it.
it's not much different than huntress and arguably worse because he doesnt get another hatchet for follow up.
it's not an issue, just bodyblock if he goes for that
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no.
the community is horrible at making decisions like that.
putting the general survivor bias in the community aside, people have no idea what a good design is.
their understanding of a "fun" thing in this game is something utterly abusable and unfair that's balanced by them being terrible at the game. like nurse or shoulder the burden.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966802#Comment_3966802
as somebody who uses the cameras, I absolutely do not want Afton knowing what camera I'm on.
of course you dont, because you want to have a useless gimmicky mechanic instead of something interactive and versatile
it's like if I suggested xenomorph's turrets could be broken by the killer and had a potential to remove his power instead of applying minor slowdown on xenomorph while its in the area and you'd be arguing against that.
springtrap has great potential for an extra layer of interactivity and borrowed power and it's being underutilized, resulting in cameras being generally useless and underused and killer having no way to interact with people using them.
it's utterly boring.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/451477/so-whats-next-for-springtrap
If you don't mind me turning your question back on you, now that you've had time to dig into his gameplay (I'm glad you're liking him!), is there anything you'd change about the Animatronic?
make doors and cameras more relevant please!!
let springtrap know where survivors are using cameras or if they're TPing, make survivors sitting on cameras reveal where he is going to TP, make this whole thing actually interactive and relevant for gameplay rather than being a side gimmick
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tried matching their sweaty energy? or are you expecting devs to force them to go down to your level of performance?
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@CLHL said:
And you forgot to mention the free escape that any coordinated team has. You enter a door, a second survivor steps in front to body block and the survivor you were chasing can now be anywhere on the map, creating a situation even worse than the portals on the D&D map.
you know where they went but yeah, its a massive headstart they could get with minimal teamwork
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big issue with his adaptation / gameplay is how utterly irrelevant doors/cameras gameplay layer is.
the counterplay / countermechanic exists parallel to springtrap and is very uninteractive for both sides.
survivors have way too much basekit counterplay making cameras obsolete and to add insult to injury cameras suck at doing their primary job - countering stealth, warning mapwide TPs.
Same with springtrap's part of counterplay - he has no idea where survivor using cameras is so he has no way to properly act upon it, he has no idea if survivors use the doors / cameras unless he camps inside so most of the time he just doesnt interact with the survivors there.
the power has all the assets needed for really fun and unique gameplay but its so safely balanced that it's just not relevant.
it's like if xeno's turrets could not break xeno out of crawler mode, the beeping thing was inside control stations and xeno couldnt break turrets. they just briefly slowed it, not enough to make a difference most of the time, but enough to be annoying.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966083#Comment_3966083
Even if you play 4 meta slowdown perks most games against solid survivors will still look 1 hook at 2-3 gens done and this is effected by skill level both killer and survivor, map, perks, loop tiles spawn rng etc. Killers like trapper, mayers can be are very bad without slowdown even nemesis can be slowed drasticaly when you dont give him tier 2 and just play safe plus your team sill do gens or oni. Four slowdowns are strong but they arent guarantee for win as four second chance perk plus some exhaustion ( dead hard,ds,unbreakable,hope).
yeah, cool, but then youll have slowdowns stalling the last 2-3 gens for long enough for you to either win or tie if you dont lose your chases.
assuming, of course, we're talking about killers the game is being balanced around.