SpringMyTrap
SpringMyTrap
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
BHVR will be fixing it soon. Let the killers strike. The updates coming whether they want it or not. Survivors are long due for an anti slug/tunnel and camp. The current camp system in place is worthless and the bar needs to fill up just as fast if they proxy camp.
oh yea, please, ask for it to happen, you totally wouldnt make things worse for yourself
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/457965/heres-a-thought
or learn to counter it? apparently its toxic to play the game in a way that you dont approve of. maybe i dont approve of people using pallets? that make them toxic because i find being stunned or going in a circle boring?
the killers that use tactics are playing the game, they are not doing anything against the rules, they are not griefing. Not everything is toxic and griefing just because you dont approve of it and you dont find it fun.
recently I thought about that too and I had a pretty sound explanation for that.
See, they don't actually realize they are playing a Player versus PLAYER game. They can acknowledge that on words, nod their head and whatnot, but in reality, in their mind, they do not perceive the other party as an actual player. They believe they're actually playing a Player versus ENVIRONMENT game like lethal company, helldivers, alien isolation, prototype, whatever depending on the role.
If you make this simple assumption, suddenly every insane take they have begins to make sense.
Like, imagine you're playing some party game like aforementioned Helldivers and the enemies you're meant to beat, avoid and counter suddenly begin to show signs of self awareness.
The bots dont just get insane accuracy, damage boost or unit number increase or whatever, but they actually begin to TRY TO WIN.
They SCATTER when you launch your aoe attacks, they implement actual tactics in their warfare, they begin to bait your attacks or even go as far as to show awareness of the IN-GAME RULES. Like, they know which objectives you need to complete and actually begin playing to DENY you these objectives, they coordinate their tanks and units to hardfocus people out of position, they begin to camp your stratagems you drop on death, making you wait the cooldowns and so on.
Or like if Xenomorph in Isolation just begins playing around the backend mechanics that hint it where you can be and begins to meticulously check every hiding spot in the room it KNOWS you're at. Or it outright just camps your only objective.
You'd be very ######### upset, wouldn't you? Because the BOTS that are MEANT TO LOSE are NOT LOSING. But they arent just trying to win, they're METAGAMING. They show awareness of the ways in-game mechanics work and PLAY AROUND them just like the players would and that is simply unforgiveable.
Good news is that the main game in question (Dead By Daylight) is ALREADY DESIGNED around either side METAGAMING. It could not be perfectly balanced, but as a matter of fact, and as proven by some people that are unironically enjoying competitive gameplay, it is DESIGNED around metagaming.
Not perfectly, but the game provides ways to play around pretty much any "optimal" metagaming strategy survivors and killers can throw at each other. There is a perk, strategy or killer against every "toxic" thing the other side can do. You hate predroppers? Play a killer like kaneki. You hate looping? Play any "antiloop" killer. Hate sabo? Pyramid. Hate camping? Reassurance / Deli, trade last second. Hate tunnelling? DS/STB/etc, pull last second. Hate slugging? WGLF/UB/reset perks, stealth, split after picking if killer is close or reset, etc.
People mald about the other party trying to win and showing awareness of the rules of the GAME instead of just playing their in-game role and "going easy" on the player and that stems from this delusion they are the main character(s) in a PvE game where the other side isn't meant to win unless THEY make such blatant mistakes they themselves can't deny that.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010215#Comment_4010215
No I'll find it comes to badly made killers and perks
Survivor gameplay hasn't changed at all LMAOobviously you only care about badly made killers and perks.
if you played both sides enough, you'd have noticed that it goes both ways and neither side gets their experience really improved, it only gets worse because they keep catering to bad players :)
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OP blames comp players for the game getting worse when in reality comp players' worries are only considered from the perspective of "you can turn this massively invasive system off in your isolated custom lobbies".
Most of the bad changes in recent years happened because casual survivors and killers had a skill issue they refused to address and devs catered to them :)
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There's not much they can do about that except making him harder enough to not be a balance issue in the skill level they balance for.
Though either way I disagree that blight (or other similar S tiers) are truly choking or bottlenecking dbd.
They arent even remotely as easy and accessible as killers like Krasue or Kaneki.
I can't help but notice that all these weird pallet changes and systems buffing survivors happened in a cascade right when these two showed up.
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FPV as killer all the time.
3rd person view is distracting, detrimental for a lot of FPS-like powers and breaks one of the core dynamics in the game, giving killer as much positional awareness as survivors have.
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yea, she was, alongside 2 massive nerfs to killers' main sources of pressure that she was designed and balanced around.
who would've guessed that when those external bottlenecks to her power arent there, she will be unbalanced ontop of being unfair.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
I fail to understand why she even has broken in first place…
well Mary Sue of the killer roster can't be caught lacking
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@ArkInk said:
I wish Springtrap could use his different knives without swapping skins at least, as I really like the texture error on Glitchtrap's knife despite wanting to play as base Springtrap the majority of the time.
From the little image they showed off, it looks like Blightrap is taking inspiration from the Nightmare Animatronics, which is a really solid choice imo
Hopefully there are no clipping or audio issues
worth noting that the "nightmare" part isnt the costume, but the afton himself.
the springbonnie costume seems to be largely unaffected and just peeling off more
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yes
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plague / ghostface are still the best users of it imo
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so just give everyone map offerings basekit?
you do realize the first thing the majority of the totally not sweaty players will do is vote for the best map every game?
every game will be split between haddonfield and whatever 4 survivor sided maps people think there are right now.
if we go down this route, it's better to introduce a ban system. killer picks 2-3 maps, each survivor picks one map, they will not be picked for the trial. way less abuse potential because people will ban cringe maps instead of picking them.
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roadlife should get nerfed to like 60-70% and unlock self care option so it's another self care sidegrade that you need to earn by hitting greats on gens.
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I dont think she can reasonably be buffed apart from maybe addons basekit or smth like that.
She is balanced as is, just slowly getting powercrept by the buffs survivors accumulate in response to newer stronger killers.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009553#Comment_4009553
That's fair. I mean players are quitting anyway by punishing it. It's unavoidable.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009556#Comment_4009556
Those are the ones that usually exhaust me the most.
I got very lucky with a solo group where we all had great synergy against a Spirit that was aggressively tunneling and slugging all trial and we all got out. I did enjoy playing with the other Survivors, but it was deflating to see how far a Killer could get with such a cheesy strat and how screwed we would've been had MMR not have given us a golden ticket.
Naturally, I got to see how screwed the trial after. And the trial after that. 😛
I think these games are the best. DbD is at its most memorable when you clutch those impossible games and that is often accomplished when MMR DOES in fact happens to WORK for once and not just put you in a lobby with 3(4) weak links cuz killer is marginally better to the point there's no competition or vica versa.
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It probably should work, but good thing it doesnt because then he'd get like 10 second of aura reading on the whole team. Might be a bit too good even for a mid tier killer.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009254#Comment_4009254
I have too, but it really depends on a lot. Lose enough of them and you start to lose hope and that leads to giving up/begging the Killer for an out.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009463#Comment_4009463
We did have that option before and it was removed. If DCing was considered more of a white flag (since you're replaced with a bot), I don't think it'd be as bad. As is, you have poor balancing and low morale plus harsher punishments for not committing once you've queued up. The grip has to be loosened somewhere.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009484#Comment_4009484
100%. That's why I say I haven't noticed an uptick in the quality of my trials so much as I've been forced to stick out bottlenecked trials until the Killer decides to down all of us.
Yeah, but at this point I consider taking a break. Plus I remember those that I did win and it gives me hope instead.
I once had fallen refuge pub blight tryharding with 5 slowdowns and getting a tunnel out at like 4 gens and we popped all of them in 3v1 cuz randos locked in, held the chase while blight was clearly shaking for this $20k tournament price pot and refusing to properly commit, ending up running out of kicks and losing the gens.
I dont really know how the match ended, he killed me in endgame and I didnt really care to see how it ended, I think he did get outed cuz one of randos was on gates, while me and other teammates were distracting, but it was a good proof of concept to never stop trying.
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>complains about lack of killer variety and people playing same 6 killers that happen to be hardcoded to be viable when played in a "fun way".
>complains about strategies that make wider variety of killers viable
infinite wisdom, im sure if devs just reworked every killer to be like these 6, the variety would def be better, except they would all play identically xd
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@UnicornMedal said:
I hate to say it, but if the trial wasn't cooked in the 3v1 there might be less desperate attempts to barter with the Killer.
ive won a plenty of 3v1s if there arent like 3+ gens left to do.
all it takes is a few good chases and people sticking to gens & not dying on them.
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@Massquwatt said:
I mean I'd be more than happy to pay for Xeno's PTB theme. I actually like it a whole lot.
I think it would need the chase part to be reworked a bit to be not as repetitive, but otherwise i'd love to pay for it too
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the only thing they suggested was taking protection hits and they werent joking when this was the only thing they mentioned
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@ArkInk said:
Not dissing anyone's opinion since I like some PTB arrangements more than live (PH's is fire), but certain arrangements like Xenomorph's were initially lambasted by the community at large and compared to a washing machine.
I have no issue with a toggle for PTB arrangements though, sounds like a good way to give everyone what they want.
yeah, most of them were bad, but what's disappointing is that the actual release version sounds nothing like the placeholder theme.
xeno's chase theme had a really good idea and vibe behind it but what we ended up with feels way more bland and generic
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@Mandy said:
As everyone on this thread has already said, this Bugfix patch is the first of two for Krasue - there's some more minor fixes in this one, but the ones that should be more impactful are included in the second Bugfix Patch which should be next week.
Unfortunately, there's only a very short time after release before this first patch has to be locked in so there is not time to get everything in the patch, get it tested, certified etc. That's why we do two Bugfix Patches after a release.
sure, but whats the point of buffing her with the first half?
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@ImWinston said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009073#Comment_4009073
- You're 100% right, but if a teammate removes the biopod while you're in a chase with Singularity, you can breathe for a moment🤣
it doesnt matter, this is not only useless 90% of the time, this is actively detrimental.
spamming EMPs in chase only works if you're comp team and singularity has been hit on the head. or you run into that exceptional lineup when you can actually avoid being insta infected and then yea, it does something, yet it's not even secondary counterplay.
main counterplay to singularity in chase (and in the match overall) always boils down to personal skill and interaction with the killer.
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@ImWinston said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009060#Comment_4009060
- yes, Krasue and Singularity are similar from this point of view, both need a constant teamwork : one is in chase and another surv acts as support, facing her alone effectively (also considering some perks like Dissolution) is practically impossible
no they dont, not even remotely.
singularity has insane amount of counterplay in chase that doesnt rely on chase - using windows, pallets, there like 4-5 different ways you can interact / outplay chainball / TPs in loops, m1 interactions, breaking LoS/using EMP to preserve distance, etc.
meanwhile krasue's counterplay is "pray for bodyblock"
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in other words, the only counterplay is elaborate teamwork, best evidence she's not okay.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008576#Comment_4008576
not run into the killer in the first place
Killers have a zillion aura perks and add-ons, and Distortion is trash. Even the basekit BBQ idea was meant to give killlers free reads on survivors. Not to mention that now that survivors spawn together they're easily found immediately because the spawn is almost always obvious. You don't even need Lethal anymore. If I use a high-mobility killer, I'm on top of them ten seconds into the match.
At this point in this games existence, survivors are clearly meant to be found.
and that is why Ive been always saying that anti-tunnel should involve removing aura reads
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008576#Comment_4008576
not run into the killer in the first place
They deleted distortion and introduced "anti hiding" measures.
They specifically and deliberately want survivors to be easy for the killer to find.
yeah and I have always said (at least on other platforms) this is a terrible idea.
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@SweetbutaPsycho said:
Lets be real: Noone buys a killer that gets absolutely destroyed and then tbed at the exit Gates. Thats why killers always release in a broken overpowered state and get nerfed as soon as enough people bought the chapter. She probably even more overtuned since fnaf brought a lot of new players who dont have 10k hours and struggle playing killer. So she also has to appeal to that group.
Just wait a couple of weeks and she will be nerfed to the ground
lets be real: if you cant be bothered to learn to play the killer and already get your ego bruised by losing on a character you're bad with, you shouldn't play PvP multiplayer games.
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The only excuse they could have is that they didnt expect new systems to not go live with her and even so her design is depressingly boring.
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Threat of anti tunnel is not something killers should have to worry about either.
Best designed anti tunnel is the kind of anti tunnel that makes tunnel out not run into the killer in the first place.
edit:
already multiple replies "well actuwally killers have gazzilion aura perks and thats why we must have aggressive anti tunnelling" has it ever occurred to y'all that this is why anti tunnelling should hide auras??
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008553#Comment_4008553
Well, like I said, if gen times are a problem, why not reward the Killer with gen regression for not tunneling? Hell, Pain Res has been an "anti-tunneling" perk for ages now, so why not make it basekit?
I agree that it's generally better to use the carrot than the stick to get Killers to play in certain ways- Killers usually tunnel simply because the rewards for not doing so aren't enough, or they require a lot more skill to properly take advantage of.
I think we'd see a lot less aggressive Survivor play if we only punished hard tunneling. If the Killer was only punished if they literally just hooked the same person 3 times in a row, and no one else.
Because that really doesn't leave much room for an unhooked Survivor to play aggressively- all the Killer has to do is win a chase after they leave the hook and they can tunnel the surv out just as before.
Another issue was that the anti-tunnel was introduced alongside the anti-slug system, which had plenty of problems of its own to say the least. The anti-tunnel in combination with the anti-slug made it very easy for Survivors on death hook to create "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations. If you hooked them, you'd be punished for tunneling. If you slugged them, they'd get right back up.
The problem I see with Elusive and just hiding information from the Killer is that it's inconsistent- on an outdoor map, the Killer might still be able to see the unhooked Survivor and run them down just fine.
>Well, like I said, if gen times are a problem, why not reward the Killer with gen regression for not tunneling? Hell, Pain Res has been an "anti-tunneling" perk for ages now, so why not make it basekit?
because that spawns a helluva lot of issues you can summarize as "killers dont have to take gen slowdown anymore". there is a very good ######### reason why killers HAVE to take gen slowdown if they want to stay competitive - everything else is cheap, skillless and marginally less healthy.
imagine all those cheesy "fun (to use)" builds that killer could bring that would no longer have a downside of "you can get genrushed". remember hex meta? imagine it alongside killers getting basekit slowdown (and also info and haste btw). or endgame build. or full chase builds like haste perks stack / coup+blood favour+dissolution kind of cheese builds.
this is not going to create good gameplay, same on the survivor side if they dont have to bring mandatory second chance perks that do nothing if killer doesnt play mean.
>Another issue was that the anti-tunnel was introduced alongside the anti-slug system, which had plenty of problems of its own to say the least. The anti-tunnel in combination with the anti-slug made it very easy for Survivors on death hook to create "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations. If you hooked them, you'd be punished for tunneling. If you slugged them, they'd get right back up.
yes, but I wouldn't really separate them, considering slugging and tunnel often come hand to hand - main counterplay to DS was slugging, which is why small pp combo was even a thing, for example.
>The problem I see with Elusive and just hiding information from the Killer is that it's inconsistent- on an outdoor map, the Killer might still be able to see the unhooked Survivor and run them down just fine.
and you will have to pick between inconsistent and utterly flawed solutions, this is how it is.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008119#Comment_4008119
I think some sort of anti-tunneling measure is justified. Survivor players are correct, to a certain degree- there's a lot of braindead Killer players out there who use tunneling as a crutch. I recently ran into a Freddy who barely landed his power, hard tunneled someone out of the game, even brought NOED. Certainly didn't feel good to die to him.
But any anti-tunneling system needs to be a LOT less heavy-handed than what BHVR had on the PTB. Like, keep the rewards for fresh hooks (Though I'd rework exactly how you reward Killers- like, give them a basekit Pain Res instead of Pop), maybe punish the Killer if they literally just hooked the same Survivor over and over until they're dead, but beyond that? Ehh… it'll have to be handled pretty carefully.
yeah, they're right, but see, that's the problem.
bad players NEED their crutches, because devs are making the game FOR BAD PLAYERS. they aren't making the game for good players and OF COURSE they aren't making the game for "bad survivors good killers".
so if you take away this crutch that gives survivors more balanced killers and reasonable gentimes, you will get krasues, because just like survivor players cant be told to "get gut", killer playes won't listen to that either. people want their casual game, so there it goes.
there will always be something that "feels bad to lose to" because that's the nature of the "balancing for bad (actually average but we all know what that means) players".
it doesn't mean you can't make these crutches harder to do, but this is the key difference - harder to do, not weaker if you do implement them in your gameplay.
on an unrelated note, another thing is that the anti tunnelling systems are FUNDAMENTALLY flawed, not just in execution, but in idea. You cannot PUNISH people for doing their job as a killer, because that would IMMEDIATELY cause the gameplay loop to fall apart or become narrowed to a chase simulator with little nuance to it.
We saw that on PTB where survivors' first instinct with the system was to play aggressively because the killer couldn't punish them for that anymore. Survivors always need to be threatened by a possibility of being tunnelled / slugged, this cannot change because then they would be greenlit to make all kinds of unsafe plays to win the game quicker that would normally be punished by aforementioned strategies.
The correct way to approach tunnelling issue is to identify if it actually is too easy to implement (it is) and look for ways to make it harder without just giving survivors more umbrella shields.
Elusive status effect was like that. !!Not!! the 30 second endurance part, but basekit "no blood, scratchmarks, sounds of pain, aura" part. Passive purely defensive effects that make it easier to leave hook and do the correct play of avoiding being found and tunneled in the first place.
Removing loud noise notification for unhook was a good idea, I think removing hook aura as well.
The whole "concealing hook progress and delaying the notification" part was a terrible design though that should make BHVR's head office question the competence of their game designers.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007769#Comment_4007769
Nothin of this has to do anything with bad players.
you can keep telling this yourself
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@Monlyth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007682#Comment_4007682
The direction DbD is going in reminds me of VHS- if you've never played it, Monster (Killer) was extremely difficult to play. Almost everything about the game was skewed in the Teens' (Survivors) favor.
Teens could build weapons to turn the tables on the Monster (And the objective was for Teens to kill the Monster with 4 different weapons), there were powerups for Teens scattered all over the map, camping and tunneling were both disadvantageous (If you only focused on one Teen, the others would be free to build weapons- plus, you could only down Teens, not hook them, and they could pick themselves up after a fairly short amount of time), and the optimal strategy was for one Teen to lure the Monster around a corner while multiple other Teens laid in wait with weapons ready.
Any new player trying out Monster would get creamed over and over- so in the end, the only people who willingly played as Monster were people who were willing to suffer through countless crushing defeats and were really good. So Teens still ultimately lost games at roughly the same rate as in DbD, except the Teen queue times were way too long because nobody wanted to play Monster.
So yeah, there's no version of this where Survivors come out on top and get 4 escapes every game. They're gonna keep getting killed at roughly the same rate- the question is, do they want low-tier Killers to be viable, or do they want to play against nothing but Blight/Ghoul? Do they want queue times to be reasonable, or do they want to play one match per hour if they're lucky?
Almo, the ex-dev people remember for really controversial things like saying we wont get accessibility because we're being annoying about it or nerfing huntress' lullaby bc of doctor's skillchecks, said a really based thing about this. You can read more here, but what it boils down to is that a big mistake these games made was creating a dissonance between the fantasy of the game and the actual gameplay. Killer was supposed to be scary / unstoppable, but ended up being the hunted one due to the means of protection survivors were given.
While I dont think DbD is going in this exact direction, I think they lean too much into "make killer scary" and end up killing the gameplay instead. Inadvertently, since they do have to balance these "op scary killers", they end up introducing the mechanics that DO end up creating this dissonance - killer is not allowed to kill survivors or be the intelligent hunter the game promises you can be.
They try too hard to sell the fantasy of an unstoppable killer that they forget this game is about outsmarting and outwitting the opponent. The way dbd accomplishes it is through strategies of applying pressure and being smart about who you chase, who you hook and who you kill.
What they end up accomplishing is a dumbed down husk of a game which looks glittery on surface, but is completely shallow on the inside.
It feels like DbD is experiencing a mid-life crisis and is trying to go back to its youth when it was still scary and immersive, but in doing so just destroys everything that made it such a good game. And no matter how hard it tries, it won't pass off as a what it tries to be. It's too late and it should move on.
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@thedeafmime said:
It’s clear that Krasue was made to counter the “bully squads” or high MMR SWFs. What about the solo que players?
This killer has ALOT of tweaks that need to be made. Mainly cooldowns just need to be added to:
-when she switches form,
-m1 after m2,
-after she uses her dash in head form,
-and probably more.
Another suggestion would be to make the auto-aim on her spit as an iridescent add-on instead of base kit (or just remove auto aim altogether ← preferred). The only way to make chases longer is to not get infected! Once infected, this killer can chase in head form for guaranteed hits, since she does not apply to the majority of killers when it comes to hugging objects. There are no 50/50s, 50/50s only waste another second before being downed — making these no longer 50/50s.
Also, Why is it that she can now put a survivor into injured state when carrying a survivor in head form instead of applying leech?! Makes no sense as she can only apply her infection to a healthy survivor. If that were to change, Krasue can easily counter this by switching forms to carry a survivor in her body, easy.
Another change to make would be to NOT make the mushroom cure last 7-10 business days. An add-on could make it last longer, or the cure can last longer while in chase, but not while a survivor is off in the corner to grab a mushroom then hopping onto a gen while the killer is busy on the other side of the map - only to to be yanked by Krasue in head form with a free injury hit. So silly and unnecessary.
I dont think she was made for that purpose. She only fulfills it because she is absolutely unbalanced bc she exists in the environment where she can slug/tunnel.
if she went live with the systems, she would've been a killer that destroys solos without chance, struggles to bully squads and loses to genrush SWFs, because the only counterplay to her is playing as a team, dying in good spots, playing for bodyblocks and being as efficient on gens as only possible.
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@kermit_snacc_choke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007690#Comment_4007690
I disagree. For the first time in a while playing killer wasn't a chore and I didn't have to run regression perks like scourge hook or pop. I could actually use other perks like oppression or something if I didn't tunnel (which i try not to, unless someone clearly wants my attention). Obviously there were some glaring issues but those could've easily been fixed.
And regardless if the update was released alongside krasue or not, krasue was a decent killer on the ptb. I think everyone prefers a killer that is slightly underpowered than the ghoul x nemesis crap we have rn.
playing killer with this update was the most boring and mindnumbing experience i've had.
i had to do pretty much zero management, just run to red aura and monkey brain chase because that was the only real option I had.
it got mildly interesting only if I played old designs that took some skill in chase at least and were underpowered because of the restrictions.
playing the killer balanced for this update didnt even make chases interesting.
im glad you enjoy it, but I would've quit the game (at least playing public matches) if it went through because it is miserable. I would've lost maybe 5% of my killrate, but the enjoyment from playing would've gone down by 100%.
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@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007669#Comment_4007669
Stop with this stupid argument already. Krasue doesn't even require actual money to be purchased.
- Shards being spent on a character mean they arent being spent on skins that the person might still want
- Not everyone spends shards on DLC characters when they can spend them on skins
- Shards take time to grind, shard sinks like that make people play more
- People who bought the character they otherwise wouldn't will likely spend more shards / money for the skins for this character which leads back to point 3.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007727#Comment_4007727
bad players doesnt matter.
they do apparently otherwise we wouldnt be seeing this kind of anti tunnel/slug or killers like krasue
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005350#Comment_4005350
When did anyone found counterplay way later then release? This never happened. People are not stupid and can comprehend this gameplay pretty easily as it isnt anywhere complex to begin with. So can we stop pretending something like this will miraculously happen?
to be fair, it took months for bad players to figure out how to use EMPs or Turrets (or counter the former as the singularity) but even so good players very quickly figured what exactly to do.
here however we have even big comp players say the killer is ridiculously unfair.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007682#Comment_4007682
Agree. And I think future MMR changes, if it will be truly good, will make it even worse. Currently you lose some insanely easy matches due to insanely bad survivors in your team, but also win some matches, because killer is new player and you are somehow in lobby with 5-8k hours comp Aces and Renato... Against 40 hours Huntress. And it kinda balances out all other problems, because ON AVERAGE game is fine. If even me, pretty bad survivor compared to top players, but good compared to average level of players, can escape 50% of my matches in soloq with current MMR, I can't imagine my escape rate with all 4 survivors near my level every match.
Put players with and against players with their skill level and it will be completely different game. We will see how truly broken survivors on top level with all free-time stuff they have. I assume even new survivors will be fine going against new players only, especially with 20 pallets on every map with killer trying to understand why he is punished for every move he takes. And even on average level I believe it will be easier to play against average killers, because if you are on average working MMR level, I think it means that nobody afraid of gens in your team. And I simply don't see where you can add another gigabuff to survivors here on top of this.
That's why I think MMR changes should happens before any other major change in this game. Because bad MMR is where most problems come from. 4 slowdown tunneling Blight going against run-to-yellow Sable is not game balance problem, it's matchmaking problem.
yeah, people dont realize even remotely how much they benefit from the broken / unfair things in the current game.
I dont think MMR change should ship with any fundamental changes though, it should've been the first thing to happen and it should've worked on its own for a while before they actually make any sweeping changes.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
That would be a fun anti tunnel ability, my only concern is hyper mobility killers + small maps
yea, hyper mobility killers are better, we have established that years ago, there is no solution that affects all killers equally.
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anti tunnel update shouldnt have gone through, alongside any balance changes done in relation to it.
it was a fundamentally flawed update that immediately gave birth to a slop named Krasue (who wasnt a good killer on ptb either, y'all just glanced over her power level or absurd lack of interactivity because it used to take time to get used to her power and the power dynamic was drastically different thanks to these flawed systems).
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007640#Comment_4007640
Yeah, many survivors believe that they will get omega buff here and now and it won't backfire with anything in near future at all. I mean, it's about how many players truly understand what game they are playing.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997242#Comment_3997242
this is what playing one side does to a person.
they really forget that as far as devs are concerned with their balancing mindset they are NOT changing in the foreseeable future, the game is already pretty balanced. average killrates are about 60%, even below that, actually, except for like all MMRs solo qers.
so any big change like that will be compensated and accounted for in the future killer designs.
yeah, it's likely that the majority of the roster will be in fact nerfed, but most of these killers the changes are targeted at will just migrate to the newest accurately "balanced" thing.
and even if none of these changes happen, there is still MMR system that does work to a greater degree than people like to think. Even if devs miraculously do give survivors this gigabuff, this will just artificially boost survivors way above their skill level and they will be matched with killers that can keep up in spite of that. Of course, that would also mean that most casual killers will most likely quit, so this would also lead to very long queue times on the survivor side which is not something you'd expect to happen for a role that is supposed to have higher demand.
There is no conceivable scenario for toxic casuals where they win. There are only those where they lose the least and, ironically, this is the scenario that involves developers balancing the game around fair and interactive killers, rather than putting killers on rails and giving them ultra op chase to balance or eradicating their casual killer playerbase.
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@Firellius said:
Because we went from 120% of what was needed (Or whatever the figure was) to -30%.
There was no effort to adjust and put in anything to improve the situation, and now it's all reserved for 'a future patch', while in the meantime, they gutted OTR and Tenacity.
We went from "This is too strong" to "We somehow got less than nothing" with no commitment to fixing it. Could be years before they try again, for all we know.
It was more like 300% if you aren't biased.
The only good faith change was the elusive status effect, everything else wasn't a quality of life, but badly masked nerf and core design / balanced shift that immediately backfired in form of Krasue.
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kaneki sold so well they realized there's no point in making killers require skill to use so that casual andies can just pay money and "have fun".
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Because BHVR reverted the changes and still released the correspondingly balanced killer on LIVE.
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Liking the character, skill flexing, self handicapping.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007440#Comment_4007440
In this sense, yeah, with short chases casual players will be forced stick to gens harder. Soloq will be even harder and SWF will be even more chill experience, with soloq < killer < SWF gap will be even bigger.
So yeah, it's great that at least someone talks about it now, before it's too late.
Edit: But by watching replies, it seems people completely missed what this post about and probably didn't even read it.when i talked about it on reddit some bozos accused me of making ######### up and said this isn't related.
they genuinely believe it doesnt come at a price.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007356#Comment_4007356
It won't be more competitive, there won't be any skill on both sides. No need for survivor and killer be good in chase, because chase only limited by killer's cooldowns. No need for survivors make decisions or risk something, because their butts are always safe due to 500 mechanics, no matter how many mistakes they made. Competition of what, who press m1 button faster and bring stronger perks?
It will be another F13, extremely casual rainbow poop party game, where at some point you need to accept that you are dead on timer, if killer sees you. But hey, killer can't tunnel you off hook, can't left you on the ground, can't defend hook, can't defend gens for too long, can't punish your mistakes, can't create any risk situation, can't defend himself in some situations.
Literally survivors' dream they asked for years, isn't it? Sadly in reality it will be DBD's end, because this is not what we play this game for.well competitive in a sense there won't be "chill" gameplay anymore.
people will be forced into playing efficiently.