SirCracken
SirCracken
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@th3 said:
They both work, however if you get hit with the styptic the syringe will not apply. If you run out the styptics use length then as long as your health state doesnt change the syringe will apply.
Ideally you run this combination of addons to either tank a hit, and if you dont get hit you'll be healed in 24 seconds.
No they don't.
Only the add-on you put in the left-most slot will activate once you consume the med-kit. The other one simply doesn't activate.
How wide-spread is this misconception that P100 survivors still believe it?
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@Nirgendwohin said:
Its true, but is there a reason they dont work together beside it is what it is?
Because giving yourself Endurance and a heal over time with a single med-kit would be busted.
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@Adamant_Tepig said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/58MVMUZG5Z5F/image.png
I just got to Prestige 40 as Trapper on Switch tonight. 60 Prestige levels to go, and despite all the frustrations, I actually do feel accomplished for maining Trapper for this long. I found a build that's worked for me thus far, and I hope it keeps working not for consistent 4ks, but for consistent matches I feel satisfied by.
How do we feel about my Trapper build?
Very respectable build and add-ons. I applaud you for sticking to Trapper for so long despite how punishing he can be to play.
How often do you get value out of silently setting bear traps?
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@MikeStev said:
Kill Switch until his rework going live?
This implies there's any plans to change Skull Merchant in the future.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is.
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I'm at 5.6K hours currently. And I can safely say that there's no way to really "Master" DbD. You can only keep improving yourself.
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@Pulsar said:
Not much to this.
I don't think the game can be played at an average casual level anymore. I don't think you can really come home from a long day at work and play a couple of games on either role without the game being more trouble than it's worth.
Whether it's problematic Killer designs that are unfun to play against (Legion and Twins), overtuned characters (Blight and Nurse), Skull Merchant or even just the Killer being outright better than you, the casual Survivor experience is bad.
Whether it's teams that force you to play tactically and try hard, people who abuse certain bugs, people who just like to be frustrating (Boil Over) or just plain good teams; the causal Killer experience isn't much better.
I think that should change for both roles. I don't think you should need to sink 6 hours into a play session whilst being hyper-aware and uber competitive in order to have a chance to have fun.
I couldn't agree more.
Finding the "fun" whenever I play DbD has never been more difficult. I often run dumb gimmick builds to try and make my games more interesting. But that doesn't fix the abysmal SBMM system and the regressive mindset that most players seems to have that makes them give up at the slightest inconvenience.
I really wish they brought back the Casual and Ranked ques. It wouldn't fix any of the core issues with the game. But at least people would have different expectations when going into a match. Because right now it really feels like no one is playing DbD with the intent to actually have fun.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
post translation: I play survivor badly, so please weaken the killer so I can escape playing badly.
What an unbelievably narrow-minded and reductive sentence. You might as well have said nothing.
@leowt Everything you've said is spot on. Sadako's skill ceiling has been obliterated and the most optimal way to play her is the most low-effort, noninteractive playstyle in the game. Only 2nd to 3-gen'ing with Skull Merchant.
I've tried to tell people this since the changes arrived but very few seem to actually listen. Instead choosing to argue against points no one made and responding to actual arguments with "Skill Issue" & "Survivor main = opinion invalid". Not bothering to take enough time to understand the character and what has been done to her.
It's incredibly disheartening to see such an obviously bad and unhealthy change to Sadako's kit be the subject of so much debate. Instead of asking why such a change was made in the first place when fixing Sadako's issues didn't require re-working her power in such a drastic way.
Thanks for making this post. A little sanity now and then makes browsing the forums bearable.
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I started playing just a little bit after Michael was released.
Seeing DbD change over so many years has been a ######### trip. And not always in a good way.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RJKM2E83KPHV/asdadada.jpg
Note I do Not Condone disconnecting for any other reason than Emergencies
I quite like the Survivors that came with the DLC, those guys alone made it worth it
but i just had my second almost hour long skullmerchant match and now I'm bored so here is a bad meme
I really do like skull-merchant gameplay wise when the 3-gen is not pushed so hard
I never DC from my games unless I experience a game-breaking bug or something urgent comes up IRL. Even against a 3-gen Skull Merchant.
That being said, she needs to be completed reworked. Her power is the most abhorrently designed collection of mechanics in the entirety of DbD.
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He's incredibly clunky to play and how he's designed is very unfitting for the character. I haven't played any Silent Hill games but I did some research after PH came out to get an idea of who he was.
Apparently he's the personification of guilt of the main character of the first Silent Hill game. In which there was lots of emphasis on psychological horror and coming to terms with the consequences of your actions.
And in DbD they gave him a highly telegraphed ranged attack and a gimmicky status effect that encourages tunnelling. I was very disappointed when I realized how different he was from his depiction in Silent Hill. I know that adjustments to the character were necessary to make him work with DbD's mechanics but I think they really missed the mark.
Something like having tormented survivors see a distorted version of the map that looks like Silent Hill, and PH himself behaving erratically when chasing tormented survivors would have been much more interesting than what we got.
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No it wasn't.
How does the Xenomorph's smooth, phallic head look anything like Knight's anniversary helmet?
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501081#Comment_3501081
Myers-It is not at all fair to judge a killer that was released 7 years ago by today's standards they were solid B tier on release and well liked.
Leatherface-I mean yes trolls flocked to the killer but by that logic Billy is also a bad killer and they're obviously not.
Freddy-They were good at one point but they've been bad more often than good so yeah Freddy sucked but I explained why that turned out how they did.
Ghostface-They're easily one of the most popular killers so I'd call that a success.
Demo-Sure.
Pyramid Head-The feel of them is iffy but they're one of the few comp viable killers and the status effect has had to be nerfed multiple times.
Nemesis-Sure although I've heard the zombies have been shadow buffed over time.
Pinhead-They're a strong killer and true to the source material again would call that a win.
Wesker-I actually hate wesker but can't deny they're a success overall.
Onryo-I don't think enough time has passed to pass judgement yet but I'm iffy on them but they're not bad.
Pig-They've averaged out the RNG and I don't think RNG is even a bad thing. The ambush could be touched up for sure though.
Again overall when it comes to licenses they come out good far better than they come out bad and even when they do BHVR goes back a touches them up over time.
You've missed my point. I wasn't talking about how strong each killer is. I was talking about the overall quality of each licensed killer. And there's no denying it, they're all radically different from each other. That isn't a good thing. That means BHVR can't create well-designed killers consistently.
And now that Alien is coming to DbD there's an equal chance they'll be good or bad.
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@MDRSan said:
Shush, you can't dampen this hype train. Alien, lets gooooooo!
I swear if you jinx it and Alien turns out to be another area denial killer...
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500957#Comment_3500957
Because they haven't? Like only Freddy has ended up actually bad and that was due to them trying to do two chapters at the exact same time in a very unique circumstance.
Michael - Extremely outdated and underpowered killer that only becomes useful with Tombstone Piece
Leatherface - Power is mostly used to face-camp
Freddy - Quite possibly the weakest killer in the game
Ghostface - A good stealth killer with a very awkward reveal mechanic
Demogorgon - Good chase power with mediocre map traversal
Pyramid Head - Extremely clunky chase power and underwhelming status effect gimmick
Nemesis - Good anti-loop but mutation mechanic handicaps his power at the start of a match and his zombies are often useless
Pinhead - Landing hits with his power isn't rewarded enough and his box meta-game leads to long matches
Wesker - Easily one of the best killers ever released with good chase potential, map traversal, and passive slow-down
Onryo - Recently had her skill ceiling butchered and made playing "Condemn Only" extremely easy and unsatisfying
Pig - Power entirely reliant on RNG that can either be a non-threat or gives you free kills along with bad stealth and ambush power
There's absolutely no consistency between licensed killers in terms of quality. They are all over the place.
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@Xendritch said:
Tbf they also made Wesker and while I don't like Wesker people treat him like he's the greatest thing to ever come to the game. I would add that Alien being licensed is great news for the Chapter because while the original concepts are very hit or miss BHR is generally consistent when it comes to licensed killers.
Myers-Outdated by today's standards but very true to the source material and done so well I'd argue Myers is the reason DBD was able to take off the way it did.
Leatherface-A victim of trying to do two licenses at once. Was the worst killer for a long period of time but was reworked to be a solid B tier killer and true to the source material although it was hard to screw that aspect of it up.
Freddy-The other rushed license has gone back and forth between being the worst killer to the best killer to the worst killer. Was true to the source material at the start but now has kinda lost the feeling of being Freddy so I'd actually say this one was a miss.
Amanda Young-Has needed a lot of adjustments and even if they're a bit weak I'd say they're at least true to the source material and is well loved by the community as a whole.
Ghost Face-Meme lord of DBD killers and despite the reveal mechanic being a mystery to this day with scientists working day and night to figure out how it actually works they're very popular and was well received.
Demo-Do I even need to say anything?
Pyramid Head-Top tier killer and I'd argue any problems with him is BHVR breaking what was originally not broken but it can easily be fixed if they made him feel smoother to play but otherwise they're 95% of the way there and a great addition.
Nemesis-I know some people complain he doesn't have a rocket launcher but I've always found those complaints goofy and the tentacle works just as well and they seem fairly popular. Not to mention all the zombie memes we've gotten from them.
Pinhead-The whole NFT thing aside Pinhead is a very unique killer true to the source material that's fairly strong.
Sadako-Kind of a mess before and kind of a strong mess now. It's probably too soon after the rework to really say anything about Sadako but they did have some fans before at least and probably more now. Probably the weakest licensed entry after Freddy in terms of how well it's turned out but they're still decent.
Wesker-Again I don't like him but he's by far the most picked killer for a reason.
So we have one miss and Sadako is like half a miss so BHVR is batting 8.5 for 10 when it comes to their licenses? I'd say that's a pretty good job so far. I'm not too worried because history shows even if Alien is not top tier they will feel like Alien and to me that's enough.
How can you say that BHVR is consistent when it comes to licensed chapters, only to list how every single licensed character they've ever released has varied wildly in terms of quality?
This is exactly what my point was. There's equal chance that Alien will be good or bad. And you shouldn't be surprised if they end up bad.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493597#Comment_3493597
taking tape is not nuance but learning to manage risk of the tape is nuance. survivors want to avoid getting hit by the m1 when holding a tape. there is looping nuance to the kit. when survivors pick-up tapes and they want to get rid of the condemn stacks. they need to play stealthy to avoid detection to sneakily put tapes into the TV. In old version of sadako, survivor's condemn stacks would increase as they held tapes. this means that the longer you take to hold-tape, the more you were punished. once 7 stacks occurs, the killer receives killer instinct notification of your location. this punished you for stealth. now you are rewarded for careful and meticulous gameplay when removing condemn using the tapes. there is a lot of nuance for survivor to play vs ability just as much as there is for the killer to optimize the ability to mori survivors.
Your entire comment is complete nonsense that I'm not going to engage with since you've ignored all of my points.
How about you show some gameplay, even a clip running at 30 FPS with a watermark will do, and you can tell me exactly what is happening in the game that is so "nuanced".
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@DBDFreddyK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/384813/onryos-skill-ceiling-has-been-butchered
Chill man its just a game
I am aware it's just a game. Like I am aware that your comment is just reductive to the discussion of the game's balance.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493580#Comment_3493580
there is still nuance. it is different nuance. condemn kills are easy because survivor have not adapted to the changes. it always takes longer for survivor to adapt playing against the killer then it takes killer to optimize a strategy. the killer is always playing one killer. the survivor has to play against 32 possible killers. learning to play against 32 killers takes a lot longer then learning one killer.
There is no nuance.
You want to have a tape at all times because it's the only way to stop yourself from being condemned. Sadako cannot be everywhere at once. So the threat of being condemned if she hits you is significantly less than the getting condemned every 10 seconds no matter where you are.
There's nothing interesting to learn here. It's a binary choice that you either know to make, or you don't.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493567#Comment_3493567
yes this had big problem which was that maps that were small and had double floor such as Gideon's meat packing plant were way stronger for her while big maps were struggle.
Map dependency for a killer is not good. the changes addresses that. She is less map dependant as a result of the changes.
The solution for Onryo being stronger on certain maps isn't to remove all nuance from her power. That just makes her less interesting to play on every map rather than a select few.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3493475#Comment_3493475
I disagree. the survivor has fair counter-play in looping the killer. Sadako's mori feel more earned now because they're more about capitalizing on survivors positioning errors and looping.
There's nothing fair or earned about mindless hitting the teleport button every 10 seconds.
Before you had to actually decide which TV has worth teleporting to since survivors would only get condemned within 16 meters of the teleport. Now that it's map-wide there's no reason not to teleport as often as possible.
How could you possibly argue against this change? It ruins the skill expression of the character.
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@Leon_Scott_Kennedy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/384813/onryos-skill-ceiling-has-been-butchered
Lol these posts have been split between her being severely overpowered and severely underpowered
Although I agree the change is a little braindead
The funny thing is I don't think this change made her that much stronger. Just stupidly easy to play.
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@Jangles said:
Yeah I played against it a couple of times this morning. The 2 stacks is a little overkill. Being able to put someone into a mori state at 5 gens from just spamming your power is Skull Merchant tier design failure
I couldn't agree more. What were they thinking?
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@lav3 said:
New iri tape now has her old basekit. What a joke.
They literally took an important mechanic out of her power and stuffed it into an add-on.
Imagine if you could only charge hatchets as Huntress if you used a certain add-on?
What a travesty of game design.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492088#Comment_3492088
you would not feel like your playing against Sadako if condemn was not a threat. you would feel like your playing against a spirit that has teleport. I think they prioritize the feeling of going against a legendary killer from the movies but they also need keep it balanced such that it is not too killer-sided gameplay wise for survivor. Killer need to want to play killer and Survivors need want to not d/c vs killer. that is strikingly difficult to achieve given your average dbd game.
What are you talking about?
Condemned Only is the most effective way to play Onryo. And that's a problem. Because that playstyle is extremely non-interactive and leads to bad gameplay. There's a way to balance Sadako so she's simultaneously powerful and fun to play as & against. But the dev's "rework" is certainly not it.
Why are you seriously trying to argue against this? We both want the character to be strong. But you don't understand how her power works from a gameplay standpoint or why it's an issue.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492045#Comment_3492045
The only thing she's good at, forcing kills with condemned
that sounds lore accurate character. a curse that kill you after 7 days.
The devs should have buffed her ability to chase survivors
Sure but that risk's sadako becoming too strong. like S-tier strong. She would become way to lore accurate.
You just ignored every single point I made because of... Lore.
My brother in Christ: Gameplay > lore
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3492045#Comment_3492045
They try to make gaining stacks more consistence, but slower, to make sure Sadako can get use of her basekit slowdown by survivors running around for tapes.
But the hard part is, survivors getting tapes to lose stack requires the same resource of Sadako trying to put stacks on survivors. Its not about Sadako has 3 cookies and survivors have 2 , so you give survivors 1 to balance it out. Its you take away 1 cookie from Sadako to give it to survivors.
Pretty much this.
It's so stupid that holding a tape, something that was a risk-reward with current Onryo, is now an extremely profitable and safe option that you should do at all times.
Because Onryo can't run around and hit everyone personally. So the threat of having 2 condemned stacks upon being hit is absolutely worth disabling a TV and stopping passive condemned from building up.
All they've done is ignored the core issues that Sadako suffered from and lowered the skill ceiling for both her and the survivors.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
her chasing kit is extremely weak to prevent her from becoming too strong with condemn kills. it balances her kit out. weak chase but strong passive to potentially mori survivors in the trial.
You've completely missed the point.
Sadako's kit is not remotely balanced. The only thing she's good at, forcing kills with condemned, involves playing the game an extremely campy and non-interactive way. This is the real problem that needs addressing. Not how strong the strategy is. But how interesting it is to use and counter.
The "rework" doesn't solve this problem. And just funnels players to abuse it more since Onryo is still terrible at doing anything but trying to cheese kills.
The devs should have buffed her ability to chase survivors instead of doubling down an gimmicky insta-kill that her entire kit has to revolve around because of how powerful it can be.
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- Equip Forced Hesitation.
- Proxy-camp 1st hook.
- Watch as survivors are possessed by altruism and swarm the hook.
- ???
- Profit.
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Sadly, almost no obsession perks work with Game Afoot.
- Dark Devotion doesn't activate after hitting them.
- Nemesis won't show their auras or make them oblivious.
- Remember Me won't gain stacks.
- And Rancor doesn't down the person in a single hit, but you can still kill them after they get downed.
The only perks that have any synergy with Game Afoot is Save The Best For Last and Play With Your Food.
STBFL doesn't count the first hit as hitting the obsession. And PWYF allows you to keep getting tokens as your obsession gets switched around.
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Oh yeah. People hate him. Not quite as much as Skull Merchant. But he sure isn't liked very much.
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@Malkhrim said:
Today I decided to have a few matches as the knight, a killer that I rarely play because I don't like his power very much, but still give a try from time to time. I had a few games until I tried using the add-on Iridescent Compay Banner, which has a feature that blocks an exit gate for a survivor when they are being chased.
So, remember when the Twins had just been released and, among the many bugs and flaws in their design, it became a joke that Viktor's base-kit feature that prevented survivors from leaving through the exit gates was useless, since they could leave at the second they were downed? Remember how that got fixed on the first patch? Well, the Knight's Iridescent Company Banner has the same problem today. I just tried it, a survivor got hunted by a guard inside the gate's area, got downed by the guard and escaped in less than a second.
Sounds like yet another bug.
I've used the banner a lot and every time a hunted survivor gets smacked by a guard the exit remains blocked for them for several seconds. Just enough time to either down and pick them up or place down another guard before they can escape.
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Being able to test your map knowledge and positioning. Contrary to popular belief, holding the W key doesn't counter Knight. It helps him.
Sure, whichever guard is chasing you isn't likely to land a hit. But they don't have to hit you. They just have to keep you busy whilst Knight does something else. And if Carnifex is chasing you, and all you do is run forward, you're going to do a full cross-map run before getting on gens again.
That being said, there's still lots that could be improved about Knight's design. I'm still in the process of creating a full re-work for him that I'll post once it's finished.
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Kill: Trapper
Murder: Wraith
Put Down: Hillbilly
Bisect: Hag
Strangle: Nurse
Short Circuit: Doctor
Hack: Huntress
Poison: Clown
Banish: Spirit
Shank: Legion
Burn: Plague
Pulverise: Oni
Skewer: Deathslinger
Run Over: Blight
Eviscerate: Twins
Erase: Artist
Purify: Dredge
Duel: Knight
Club to Death: Trickster
Camp to Death: Skull Merchant
Cancel: All Licenced Characters
Fck: N/A
Marry: N/A
They're all murderous psychopaths. I'm going to get off that stupid dating island and get back to my girlfriend.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
Playing as Knight feels monotous and brainless. Most of his gameplay is just dropping a Guard at a loop and cornering the survivor. It's the same thing in most loops. It's too boring. I feel like they need to add more decision making to the killer and allowing Knight to manually choose his Guards would achieve this.
I'm currently in the process of writing a complete overhaul of a Knight's power. It's going to be incredibly long and detailed because Knight's power cannot be easily fixed by just allowing him to choose which guards to use on a whim. That would only compound how un-interactive he can be to play.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3459769#Comment_3459769
Nurse deserves full rework and Blight deserves some good nerfs.
We are already talking about it, hopefully soon Blight will get what he deserves. I am hoping devs finally will see how busted killer he is.
Nurse and Blight are fine at base-kit. What makes each of them broken are some of their add-ons + perks that become overbearing when used by either killer.
But looking at this thread so far, I can't help but notice that it's been completely derailed and isn't even about MfT anymore. It seems like every argument on the forums nowadays spirals into a constant back-and-forth about which part of the game is more broken.
These arguments serve no purpose and help no one in understanding how to balance the game better.
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Honestly, this would make No Mither a pretty ok perk. I approve.
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456379#Comment_3456379
Zoning and creating deadzones is a very common tactic in high-level killer play, most videos I watch of pro killers choose a section of the map to control, particularly ones with 3-gens, and force survivors to shed blood to chip away at the objective there. Idk why you would ever want survivors to use nothing against you, I personally, am overjoyed if I can zone a survivor into using Shack pallet at the start of a match for example.
Being injured is still an issue for even the best survivors, which is why resets still happen in tournaments. Iron Will and Off The Record are mediocre perks. And being less of a risk does not mean the risk isn't there or that its irrelevant, I don't see why this is a point of contention.
Calling something unbalanced or overpowered means that the perk removes any alternatives and is oppressive to play against due to having no counterplay. 3% haste for playing without exhaustion and an extra healthstate is balanced, very strong, but balanced because there is still healthy counterplay and tons of alternative perks that rival it in strength on both sides. The devs specifically made it not work with exhaustion to make sure it didn't completely negate the desirability of exhaustion perks.
Even if that weren't the case, the overwhelming majority of survivors are not good. And unless you are playing comp all the time, you are not running into really good survivors very often, if ever. The game shouldn't be balanced at an echelon that 99% of the playerbase will never reach, it should just be a consideration when it comes to not rendering the game unplayable in a competitive setting.
Tournaments already have tons of rules regarding perks and items, so MFT absolutely does not threaten the competitive community, whereas perks like Reassurance absolutely stirred the pot since hookstages are crucial in tourney games.
If perks that encourage a high-risk/high-reward playstyle such as MFT, Resilience, and Adrenaline are being called overpowered, then there truly is no survivor playstyle left that isn't overpowered. So arguing about it becomes pointless. Permit me to be dramatic, but at this point the devs should just stop releasing new survivor perks if the only acceptable ones are the trash we got in the previous two chapters, as it needlessly adds bloat to the roster of perks.
As stated before, the perk is very likely to get nerfed, but I am of the opinion that this will be a kneejerk reaction to overblown outrage, rather than any sort of "objective" problem like your title suggests.
A good night's rest and some well cooked bacon and eggs have given me the strength to disassemble your arguments. Let's begin.
"Zoning and creating deadzones is a very common tactic in high-level killer play, most videos I watch of pro killers choose a section of the map to control, particularly ones with 3-gens, and force survivors to shed blood to chip away at the objective there. Idk why you would ever want survivors to use nothing against you, I personally, am overjoyed if I can zone a survivor into using Shack pallet at the start of a match for example."
You previous argument was not talking about chipping down the map over time. You specifically mentioned how the killer should have removed all good loops entirely by the end-game. You've changed your mind about what point you were trying to make and are acting like it was the same. As shown by one of your previous statements:
" If a killer gets to end-game with multiple strong loops still intact. They failed."
Furthermore, it is far better for the killer if the survivor's resources are never used in the first place. Why deal with the strongest structures on the map when you could focus on protecting a few select areas that survivors have to enter if they want to repair gens? But this is a pretty off-topic point. So I'll move on.
"Being injured is still an issue for even the best survivors, which is why resets still happen in tournaments. Iron Will and Off The Record are mediocre perks. And being less of a risk does not mean the risk isn't there or that its irrelevant, I don't see why this is a point of contention."
DbD tournaments are such a massively different experience compared to average DbD games that you should never use them to prove a point. Comp DbD and regular DbD are 2 entirely different games.
Average DbD players aren't going to play as optimally as possible. They're going to play in the way that is the easiest and most effective. That's where MfT comes in. Why bother trying to safely heal to minimize the risk of getting downed, when you can slap on a perk that gives you more movement speed by being injured?
"3% haste for playing without exhaustion and an extra healthstate is balanced, very strong, but balanced because there is still healthy counterplay and tons of alternative perks that rival it in strength on both sides."
As I've already stated, you can still run exhaustion perks with MfT and get value out of both. That point is moot. Your 2nd point is completely insane. What "healthy counterplay" is there to a survivor getting a permanent speed boost once injured? If you're talking about killers being able to disable the perk by exhausting survivors, I've already addressed this point in my post.
"Even if that weren't the case, the overwhelming majority of survivors are not good. And unless you are playing comp all the time, you are not running into really good survivors very often, if ever. The game shouldn't be balanced at an echelon that 99% of the playerbase will never reach, it should just be a consideration when it comes to not rendering the game unplayable in a competitive setting.
Tournaments already have tons of rules regarding perks and items, so MFT absolutely does not threaten the competitive community, whereas perks like Reassurance absolutely stirred the pot since hookstages are crucial in tourney games."
At this point you've gone completely off-topic and have started rambling about the DbD comp scene. This is completely irrelevant to the points I was making about MfT. I find it baffling that you mention how most survivors aren't good but don't see the contradiction that makes with your previous point about how comp players treat being injured.
One minute you're using comp players as an example of how staying injured is risky. And the next minute you're admitting that 99% of players do not play like comp players. You've made your own point redundant.
"If perks that encourage a high-risk/high-reward playstyle such as MFT, Resilience, and Adrenaline are being called overpowered, then there truly is no survivor playstyle left that isn't overpowered. So arguing about it becomes pointless. Permit me to be dramatic, but at this point the devs should just stop releasing new survivor perks if the only acceptable ones are the trash we got in the previous two chapters, as it needlessly adds bloat to the roster of perks."
Resilience and Adrenaline are situationally overpowered. MfT is overpowered on a fundamental level. They are not the same. And the notion that all survivor playstyles are overpowered, because a single playstyle happens to be broken, is ridiculous.
DbD is a very unbalanced game and there are parts are more or less balanced than others. We should be striving to bring all of them to a comfortable middle ground instead of encouraging the divide of "Broken content" and "Garbage content". And we can start by stopping survivors from getting a game-breaking speed boost just by being injured.
It is possible to nerf an overpowered perk and still have it be useful without being broken.
"As stated before, the perk is very likely to get nerfed, but I am of the opinion that this will be a kneejerk reaction to overblown outrage, rather than any sort of "objective" problem like your title suggests."
I know the DbD community is prone to outrage. And I cannot speak to how reasonable the other arguments for nerfing MfT are. But I can speak to my own. And I can say for certain that I didn't make this post on whim.
I made it because I thought about the perk in the context of the game it's in and the how the game is designed and balanced. And I realised how unbalanced it is and described exactly how it's unbalanced as objectively as I could. Which my own experiences with and against the perk have confirmed.
Made For This is objectively, blatantly, overpowered. And you should stop defending it so the game can get just a tiny bit closer to being balanced. DbD will likely never be well balanced. But if no one tries to understand how and why the game is designed, especially the dev team, then it'll only become more unbalanced and unfun over time. Which it has been.
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@AetherBytes said:
We're not actually sure if it's deliberate. No mention of it at all, not even in the code from what I've heard, yet it's obviously there. I'm wondering if it's some leftover from a different infection killer's code
I'm pretty sure it's intended. They just didn't mention it anywhere in his power description. Because it's a completely fine bonus to have to incentivise infecting multiple people.
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456624#Comment_3456624
He already admitted to thinking Adrenaline and Resilience are broken earlier lol.
Putting words in my mouth again? What I said was:
"Because the problems that Made For This has absolutely apply to Adrenaline and Resilience too. They're just not as blatantly overpowered."
To clarify, Adrenaline is broken when 4-stacked by a coordinated survivor team. And Resilience is broken when used with MfT. The problem with these 2 perks isn't even the perks themselves. It's a combination of things that make them potentially broken.
Btw, I'm currently too tired to dissect your previous counter-argument. But once I've had some rest I'll start picking apart everything wrong with it tomorrow.
And there's a lot of stuff wrong with it.
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@Shroompy said:
Can I ask you something
Yall who think Made For This is truly broken... what do you think of Resilience?
It's an incredibly strong survivor perk. And has been for a while. But it isn't broken.
I think it's in an acceptable spot and would like other survivor perks to be just as useful. Rather than being either worthless or overpowered.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Because it always gets a lot complaints.
First CoH and now Made for This.
And then people are asking why survivors are using same perks over and over again. Because you are not letting devs to make good survivors perks. Whenever they do, you are asking nerf immediately.
Nobody complains about Teamwork perks or 80% of survivor perks tho because they are just garbage.
What a terrible argument to make.
"Most survivor perks are bad therefore it's ok to have a few broken perks"
You should be wanting all perks to be balanced and usable. Not for a select few to be broken and the rest to be trash.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456559#Comment_3456559
but you do not benefit from both. you benefit from MFT when you have not used an exhaustion and after you use exhaustion perk, you benefit from using the exhaustion perk and no longer benefit from MFT. I am confused about whether your complaining about exhaustion perks or MFT. you sound like your complaining about both.
You're completely ignoring what I said.
You can absolutely benefit from Made For This and other exhaustion perks at the same time. It's very simple:
- Get into chase as normal.
- Run the killer as much as you can until injured.
- Continue running until the killer is getting close to hitting you. Then activate your exhaustion perk of choice. E.g Lithe, Balanced Landing, Smash Hit or Dead Hard.
The longer you can keep running the more value Made For This gives you. And when that value runs out you switch to a different perk to extend the chase and capitalize on the extra distance that Made For This gave you.
You get the pros of both perks without any cons.
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@Rareware0192 said:
I agree the perk is a tad bit overtuned. I feel like Boon: Dark Theory and Made For This should have their Haste numbers switched. I find it weird that a Boon perk that takes time to set up, can be destroyed by the killer, requires you to be in its radius and is all the perk does is weaker than another Haste perk that its only requirement is to be injured and not exhausted, on top of the fact that it has a secondary effect.
I would make the 3% go to Boon: Dark Theory, and give the 2% to Made For This, while giving the Endurance effect go to Buckle Up like you suggested, as I feel that’s a valid and sensible buff to a perk that honestly needs it. At this point I would remove the Exhaustion requirement for Made For This, so now it only activates when you’re injured, but you get a solid 2% Haste buff and that’s all you get.
I agree.
You'd think the team oriented perk would give more haste compared to the individual oriented perk.
I'm a little bit wary about only nerfing the amount of haste that Made For This gives you. But I'll happily take a permanent 2% haste over 3%.
Also, thanks for actually reading the post! Not many people here have managed to do that...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456488#Comment_3456488
I agree. I do not understand OP post. He says you can use it with Lithe and Balance landing but the perk is disabled when you use it with Lithe and Balance landing. you are complaining about haste when the perk is disabled.
I've already addressed this counter-argument in my post. I'll copy and paste it since you clearly didn't read it:
The only other requirement that Made For This has to be activated besides being injured is to not be Exhausted. This is supposed to make it so you have to choose between the constant 3% Haste of Made For This and the 150% Haste of traditional Exhaustion perks. The problem is that you can still benefit from both.
Lithe, Dead Hard, Balanced Landing and Smash Hit, can all be activated at will when their conditions are met. Which means people who use Made For This can select their Exhaustion perk of choice and run for as long as possible before activating it. Getting maximum value from the 3% Haste from Made For This before getting the 150% Haste or Endurance from the aforementioned 4 perks when the killer is close to hitting them.
You get to have your cake and eat it too. The synergy that Made For This has with Exhaustion perks is far too great.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456553#Comment_3456553
You're not getting "maximum value" of your tiny 3% haste if you're cutting it short to use an exhaustion perk. Again, it's so small that it only pays off after a prrotracted amount of time. It's not enough to get you to a loop if you're in a deadzone, or to drag out a chase by more than a second or two.
You trigger an exhaustion perk and your 3% is practically worthless.
What you are describing is the worst case scenario for the survivor.
They might get ambushed at a gen and be forced to vault a nearby window to activate their lithe. In this case, they're still gaining distance on the killer. But not by too much.
The best case scenario, and the more common one by far, is that the survivor notices the killer is heading towards them and begins running. The longer they run the more value Made For This gives them. And then when it looks like the killer might catch them soon, they'll procc Lithe or Balanced Landing or Dead Hard and extend the chase even further.
How much distance they get will vary from chase to chase. But without exception each one will net them more chase time thanks to Made For This before they activate their secondary exhaustion perk.
Contrary to what you say, you don't need to run the killer for long to get value out of the extra 3% movement speed. Even getting a single extra loop at a tile is value. The problem comes from how much value you can get if you keep running. Which is completely unparalleled to every other exhaustion perk in the game.
That is why it's a problem. It gives too much for requiring so little.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456547#Comment_3456547
You dont "need to exhaust survivors". You just deal with this perk instead of an exhaustion perk, and it's fine. In order for 3% to pay off, you need to be looping the killer for a good 20+ seconds, and you'd make up that or more with an exhaustion perk.
Again, I've already written a counter to this in my post. Here it is:
The only other requirement that Made For This has to be activated besides being injured is to not be Exhausted. This is supposed to make it so you have to choose between the constant 3% Haste of Made For This and the 150% Haste of traditional Exhaustion perks. The problem is that you can still benefit from both.
Lithe, Dead Hard, Balanced Landing and Smash Hit, can all be activated at will when their conditions are met. Which means people who use Made For This can select their Exhaustion perk of choice and run for as long as possible before activating it. Getting maximum value from the 3% Haste from Made For This before getting the 150% Haste or Endurance from the aforementioned 4 perks when the killer is close to hitting them.
You get to have your cake and eat it too. The synergy that Made For This has with Exhaustion perks is far too great.
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@Seraphor said:
Are we forgetting that it doesn't work when exhausted?
I'd gladly take a 3% speed boost over a Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced or Dead Hard. And it's not really worth using with any of those because then you only get the 3% for a limited time, when it only pays when used for an entire chase.
I'm going to copy and paste my rebuttal to this argument that I've already included in my post since you didn't read it:
"Just exhaust survivors and you can easily disable the perk"
This argument ignores how powerful the perk is and relies on all killers being able to easily exhaust survivors for it to make sense. This is not the case.
Aside from the few killers that can apply exhaustion directly to survivors with their add-ons, Such as Huntress, most killers cannot exhaust survivors without running certain perks. And all of them are conditional. There's no way to guarantee that a survivor will be exhausted when you chase them.
And even if there was, you shouldn't be forced to run perks or add-ons just to counter a single perk. DbD is sorely lacking in viable build diversity and forcing already struggling killers that can't apply exhaustion with their power to all run Fearmonger will only make this problem worse.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/379465/made-for-this-is-objectively-unbalanced
I honestly can’t believe you spent this much time on this post. There are bullet points and everything.
lol this is nothing. I'm going to write a post on the problems with Knight and how to fix him in the future.
That one is going to be a full length essay.
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@Boons123 said:
Remove the Endurance gained on finished healing. And move it to Buckle Up. There's no reason for the perk to grant Endurance given how much the 3% Haste already does. Buckle Up, on the other hand, is a perk that doesn't do enough. And being able to tank a hit while injured after you pick someone up would play to the perk's strengths and give it a much needed buff.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NTULEXWYJ9MH/4cf871ad-5cca-4862-b29f-722e4bd10217.jpeg
Useless suggestion
The endurance from Made For This applies to you. Not the person you picked up.
It compliments WGLF. Which you would know if you read the post properly.
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3456325#Comment_3456325
Let's follow the train of thought to the end please.
If a survivor stays injured all game, they have only a single healthstate, the later the game goes on and the more resources are used, the deadlier being injured is.
A good killer will constantly apply pressure and force survivors to use resources, if a killer gets to end-game with multiple strong loops still intact. They failed. It isn't a perks fault, but a skill issue, excusing some of the more egregious maps of course.
If a survivor is intentionally staying injured, its because they want to pressure or have perks that alleviate the massive downsides of being loud, easy to track, and one healthstate. That doesn't magically mean that being one healthstate is preferred, nor does it mean perks that offset being injured are overpowered. They aren't.
If you're going to complain about MFT, don't downplay the costs of being injured, and actually be objective in your calling for nerfs.
At this point, the perk will most likely be nerfed because of how loud people are being, but most of the arguments I see against it are terrible and could easily be applied to perks like Adrenaline and Resilience.
This counter argument is full of holes. I will point out the biggest ones.
"A good killer will constantly apply pressure and force survivors to use resources. If a killer gets to the end-game with multiple strong loops still intact, they failed. It isn't a perks fault, but a skill issue, excusing some of the more egregious maps of course"
While it is true what killers will slowly whittle down survivor resources over time, expecting killers to completely remove all strong loops by the end-game is ludicrous. Especially since the strongest loops in the game are based around a combination of windows and pallets. So you cannot fully remove their effectiveness. Even on the more balanced maps like Coal Tower.
And even if you managed to get rid of every single pallet on a map, the time it takes to fully remove everything is so long that the survivors would have been given way more time than needed to repair every single gen and escape.
As killer, you want the survivors to use as few resources against you as possible. Not as much as possible. If you think that's a skill issue you simply don't understand the game.
"If a survivor is intentionally staying injured, it's because they want to pressure or have perks that alleviate the massive downsides of being loud, easy to track, and one health state"
This is why being injured is such a non-issue for good survivor players. There are plenty of good perks that make staying injured less of a risk and even encourage it. E.g Iron Will, Dead Hard, Resilience, Off The Record and Adrenaline. All of which make Made For This even stronger by compounding how low-risk it is to stay injured.
"If you're going to complain about MFT, don't downplay the costs of being injured, and actually be objective in your calling for nerfs"
The whole reason I'm calling for Made For This to be nerfed is that it removes a lot of the risk of staying injured. So much so that it rewards people for it. I have constructed an objective list of everything wrong with the perk and how to fix it without outright gutting it in this post.
You might want to read that before commenting again and making points that I've already addressed.
"At this point, the perk will most likely be nerfed because of how loud people are being, but most of the arguments I see against it are terrible and could easily be applied to perks like Adrenaline and Resilience"
The perk should get nerfed because it's overpowered. There's plenty of good arguments explaining why. But if you're as attentive towards my arguments as the others, it's no wonder you think they're terrible.
Because the problems that Made For This has absolutely apply to Adrenaline and Resilience too. They're just not as blatantly overpowered.