SirCracken
SirCracken
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/393069/my-nightlight-stats-from-120-matches
Force hesitation being number 1 kinda insanely! shocking. Comp da grace been slept on for to long.
It's number 1 because the counter for killer perks includes perks that I ran in my own build. And I use FH in most of them. The same for Coup.
The vast majority of killers do not run it. Despite it being one of the most powerful perks currently in the game.
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@Steakdabait said:
Neat, thanks for the stat drop
No worries.
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The "Cracken" part of my username was invented by me when I was playing Dark Souls 2.
I created a character that ended up duel wielding giant clubs and liked the "crack!" sound they made when I smacked stuff. And what better name for someone who cracks things open than Cracken?
The "Sir" part I added when I started playing For Honor as part of the Knight's faction. Although I don't play it anymore, it's become oddly fitting since I now main Tarhos, the Knight.
So my name now means: Knight who cracks stuff.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/392883/whens-ptb-going-live-again
That knight should be Hauling ass looking for jake.
Yep.
He should have sent Carnifex after you to buy time while he chases and kills the Jake.
This suboptimal Knight gameplay displeases me
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@ratcoffee said:
When I say the game is killer sided, I mean specifically at average levels of play. Average kill rates are 53% according to nightlight, meaning killers have a 6 percentage point advantage over survivors on average.
That's great, IMO. As a survivor player I'd even prefer slightly more killer buffs to make escapes slightly more difficult - I like playing the underdog role, which solo queue survivor certainly is, and if the devs want to get back to the ~60% kill rate they've previously stated as their ideal, I have no objections. IMO the ideal DBD is one that is slightly-to-moderately killer sided.
I'll admit, at the absolute top level, with players making the fewest mistakes a player can reasonably be expected to make, the game is survivor sided, where most matches where the survivors are truly sweating they'll win, barring some very specific killer- and map-specific circumstances. Unfortunately it'd be impossible to balance the game for that without making the game unacceptably killer-sided in the average (think 90% kill rates or higher), but there's only a couple dozen survivor players capable of that level of play, so in a game with something like 100k daily players it's acceptable to balance primarily for everyone else.
DbD's balance is a combination of many different factors. The killer, map, builds and skill level of each player can affect the outcome of a match and which side is more likely to win.
A noob Trapper on Haddonfield against a coordinated team with full meta builds is much less likely to win than an Experienced Wesker on Wrecker's Yard against solo survivors.
There's absolutely no point in trying to gauge what side the game favours when so many different factors change between matches that all effect which side is more powerful.
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@supersonic853 said:
I've been playing the knight for the past few weeks. Carnifex is a good time waster and gen and pallet machine. Assassin is good for hitting survivors passively. Jailer is...Jailer. if i have a regressing gen he can guard it i guess (wish he had something else). But Carnifex and Jailer seem to be falling behind as MFT and other movement speed mess with the balance of how they should hit you. (Since i assume they are meant to get gradual distance on you and hit you if you are just moving straight with no plan). But all 3 are good for cut offs. So just wondering if people think they could use a slight speed up with the meta as it is now. Or if 105% is fine. Even if jailer was assassins movement speed he'd probably still be useless. But never know. He has a decent job as my gen guard and cannon-fodder for my sword.
As other people have already said, Carn and Jailor move at 102.5% not 105% movement speed. But regardless, Carn is definitely fine where he is. Being exceptionally useful for both wasting survivor's time and deleting pallets during a chase.
I do agree that Jailor could use a buff. But I am against increasing his chase potential because both Carn and Assassin are already specialised for chases. And buffing Jailor to be better at chases would go against the whole point of having specialized guards to chose for specific situations.
Instead, I suggest that survivors within Jailor's detection range suffer from Oblivious as long as they remain inside the range, and for an additional 20 seconds after they leave. This lets the Jailor be used to set up ambushes for the Knight as he patrols the area. And keeps his specialization as the info-utility guard.
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@Rudjohns said:
Should we start saying RPD and The Game are two of the most killer sided maps in the game?
Whether either map is killer sided is highly dependant on the killer being played.
Generic M1 killers without a power to assist them in a chase get destroyed by these maps. Whereas killers with high mobility can do very well.
But regardless of whatever killer is being played the map is still garbage. And isn't designed to allow for interesting chases.
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Double Knight.
It would be such chaotic fun to have 4 killers chasing survivors at once!
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@MalevolentGhoster said:
Is he fun to play/against? What do you think about his power? What are perks that Knight can use?
Very fun if not demanding killer to play as. And can be fun to play against if the game allows it.
His power requires lots of micro-managing to use it effectively. Keeping track of where all survivors are, what part of the map they're in, and what routes they're likely to take to escape you are all things you have to thinking about constantly when playing Knight.
He's at his strongest when he's pressuring multiple survivors at once. Having a survivor on the hook, and survivor chased by a guard, and another survivor chased by the Knight himself leaves only 1 survivor to save the person on hook. Leaving no one to repair gens.
Knight wins games by wearing down survivors and beating them in a battle of attrition. Not by getting downs as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the playerbase seems convinced that he's brain-dead easy to play and counter.
Quick PSA: Holding down W at all times when chased by a guard doesn't counter Knight. It lets the guards waste as much of your time as possible while Knight pressures your team mates. Stop saying the W key counters him. It doesn't. Coordinated plays from all survivors counter him.
As for perks you can run on him:
Surveillance: Synergises with guards after they break gens to give you more map knowledge.
Sloppy Butcher: The extra healing time allows you to ambush healing survivors by placing guards near them and deleting their healing progress.
Forced Hesitation: Incredibly underrated perk that allows any guard an almost guaranteed hit on any survivors affected by it. Allowing you to herd survivors and set up multi-downs between you and your guards.
It's a shame that his guard's AI is still buggy and most maps don't let him make interesting plays as often as he should.
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@Crowman said:
I don't see how anyone can make an accurate determination of Skull Merchant's power level based on the text explanation that lacks any concrete numbers.
This comment didn't age well.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3545559#Comment_3545559
They intend on nerfing her ability to stall Generators while buffing her chase potential.
To put it bluntly, I dont know if it is an improvement or not in terms of strength, but it is objectively better for the game's health since it removed her ability to stall a game for 60-minutes.
When we get the PTB, (if you can... some people are unable to sadly) I would recommend testing the changes yourself.
It's a massive downgrade.
They removed her ability to camp 3-gens as effectively. But gave her almost nothing to help compensate for this. Playing as/against her now will be even more non-interactive for both teams.
I'm currently working on a post to explain why the changes are bad. Because my god there's so many bad decisions to go over.
This makes the butchery of Sadako's kit seem tame in comparison.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541845#Comment_3541845
I did think about that, and add-on no way our seems pretty busted at a glance... but a lot of things have to go your way at the right time to get value from it, ot can just as easily do nothing for you... so I'd say it has that risk/reward iri add-on thing just fine. 😁
Keep looking at the scream and reveal though... maybe have it the first time they enter your terror radius (im assuming UW will chamge)? Since survivors are Oblivious in NF, them screaming suddenly warns them you're close, but can just as easily send them running right into you... again... iri risk/reward.
And I'm all I'm favour of removing exposed from iri add-ons. It's not very interesting
Considering Dredge already has an add-on the reveals everyone's aura on demand I don't think giving some info after nightfall pops is too powerful.
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@UndeddJester said:
I agree with a fair majority of these... though... that is a lot of buffs with no compromises :D
- 2s to lock a locker might be overkill imo, not sure needed along with all the other changes?
- Wooden Plank add-on at 60 is a hefty buff, might be a little too far?
- Mortar and Pestle making channeling at 4m/s is pretty damned strong... I'd be tempted reign that in a tad to say 3.8 or 3.85.
Pretty solid set of suggestions though.
Thanks for reading my post!
I'm happy that out of all the changes I listed you only had an issue with 3. That's a pretty solid good-to-bad-idea ratio.
Although I'm certain that being able to block the exits during nightfall would be fine. Most games are already over by the time survivors reach the gates.
So having more opportunities to the killer to catch people can only make the end-game more engaging.
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Knight
I've always wanted to play a killer that has the power of commanding minions to help them. And even though Knight is very buggy, I still have lots of fun with him most of the time.
Plus he has a cool look, good lore, and a brutal mori. There's nothing quite like seeing your buddies stab, brand and then cleave a survivor before dealing the finishing blow yourself. It instils a sense of comradery and brotherhood in me.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Good news!
This includes Residual Manifest, Dramaturgy and Appraisal.
https://twitter.com/deadbydaylight/status/1701256803206438989?s=46&t=MOM9e-MaWyIGCyqm4Ri7dw
I've got bad news for you. Players who were already in the game when the killswitch was activated aren't affected by it. I've been running into quite a few survivors who can still use flashlights.
Although, if you're playing survivor and see someone else use the locker bug, you can jump into the locker to force them out.
Artist and Pyramid Head can also both hit survivors using the exploit.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Remember back in very very old days where Nurses was 32m range and got nerfed and still was pretty meta perk? Yea... well that perk wasn't changed since (not counting for Doctor interaction with madness - it used to reveal you because it counted as healing) for X years.
The perk is still pretty good, especialy on Killers who can hit & run and sneak up on Survivors. Yet I never see this perk. Why?
I use it in my information build for Xeno. It's very good at revealing people healing while I scurry around the tunnels.
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@LSaltify said:
Before anyone here asks “how many hours do you have” and all that stuff, been playing since launch, mained trapper through all these years and over 9k hours
Now, to the point at hand.
I firmly believe trapper sack is a mid addon that is overpraised beyond belief. Any good trapper with time management is able to recognize when it is vital to pick up a trap or set one (which should be the second if not the most important thing to do) and when not to. Another important thing to do as trapper is identify if a trap is doing poorly or simply ######### irrelevant. (Gen near the trap is completed/the loop is weaker because of connecting tiles or the pallet is gone)
Which if you have trapper sack, is ######### pointless because you can’t change where you place a trap.
The reason people complain about trapper is how ######### ABYSMAL his trap spawns are. Hence why BHVR should fix the spawns instead of putting a bandaid over the booboo. And trapper sack itself incentivizes to just be honk mimimi basement dweller/3 gen trapper. I foam at the mouth any time trapper sack is mentioned because it is truly a mid addon in my eyes. I find ######### coffee grounds to be more worthwhile just because trapper sack doesn't allow you to pick up traps and how dumb the prospect of making it basekit it. I believe most trapper players just have a ######### huge skill issue and are playing him as if he’s a normal killer and not realizing there’s more to him.
The only time I find it to be reasonable to use trapper sack is if you’re just starting out to play trapper, since it drills into your head how important good trap spots are. Which even then, I firmly advise you to stop using that mid addon.
Ditto.
For giving Trapper a buff that he should have gotten by default for years now, he loses all ability to reposition traps and neuters his tactical decision making.
Absolutely terrible add-on.
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@caipt said:
I think we can all agree that this perk is overtuned. At the very least, the endurance should not be lumped in with an already powerful effect. If and how would you change made for this to be a more balanced and/or healthy perk?
I think I would give the haste while healthy instead of injured so you need to heal for value+punishes you for a bad play rather than rewarding you+remove haste stacking+remove endurance effect entirely. Or I would make the haste ramp up from 0-3 over 30s.
- Remove the Endurance effect completely. It has no reason to be attached to this perk given how powerful the 3% Haste already is.
- Cause Exhaustion for 30 seconds after being chased for 30 seconds. If the chase ends before the Exhaustion kicks in, the 30 second timer will slowly tick down. So if the killer loses the survivor but finds them again quickly it won't take as long for them to become Exhausted.
- While a survivor is affected by Haste their running animation will change. With their head stooped low and their hands clenched into a fist. So the killer is made aware that the survivor is running faster than normal.
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@Lixadonna said:
It's never a good game except for the person who won.
People will leave gg and immediately run. It's just a forced comment.
No. It's just a polite way to end the game. I say it after every game, even if I lose
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Absolutely spot on. None of the Knight addon changes actually did anything meaningful or, in 2 out of the 3 cases, actually do the opposite of what the devs likely intended. Pillaged Mead is actually better for gen-damaging than it was before (it’s still bad for you, just less bad) and Tattered Tabbard is now worse than it was. Meanwhile Map of the Realm and Call to Arms are still basically required to play him (especially MotR).
+1
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@Pulsar said:
Good question. None of them addressed any particular issue.
His biggest issues are needing MoTR and the buggy Guard AI, imo.
I agree.
Assuming those 2 issues are fixed in the future the next thing that Knight needs is an add-on pass. Buffing some of his weaker add-ons and reworking Knight's Contract.
I still have no idea why a dedicated facecamping add-on still exists in the game.
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@Chomperka said:
they couldnt care less about knight, his rainbow addon is still broken and doesnt block survivors from exit, been like this since winter, his balance changes are probably generated by AI because no dev wants to touch him after release.
I sadly agree :(
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@fussy said:
Every time I read that Knight can camp a hook with his ability, I lose interest in what I read.
You didn't read the post properly then.
The reason why Knight's Contract allows Knight to face camp is that it exposes nearby survivors when he summons his 4th guard. After hooking a survivor, you can cycle through guards by summoning them and cancelling them with a basic attack until you have your 4th guard ready to summon.
Then once you see summon about to unhook, you can slap down the guard and insta-down the survivor before they can save. It's a blatantly unfair and overpowered strategy.
And the fact that Knight's Contract still lets you do this while useless add-ons that nobody uses get meaningless number tweaks is disappointing.
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@ArthurVeloso said:
Supported!
I won’t buy this chapter until they fix this overpowered killer.
https://youtu.be/q6CEMRwLfoQ?feature=shared
It is funny that they nerfed circle of healing (so not heals), they nerfed prove thyself (so no gen pressure), they nerfed decisive strike (so tunneling down is less punishing), they nerfed Med kits (so no self heal if your teammates are busy or dying), but they allow this killer to have so much power that even the treat of using his power is enough to make survivors stuck in a loop waiting for their imminent death.
great job devs! Keep going with this terrible work!
The person who made this incredibly biased and incorrect video also made another one. It features the most juvenile and close-minded takes I have ever heard about DbD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gBrMFvwICQ
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@Brimp said:
Probably the classic "low useage = buff" All though the torch could be funny.
But the torch is still just a weaker version of the tongs. It's still garbage.
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@Rickprado said:
So, i've been playing Knight a lot since March, it became my main killer. I started to play Knight because of his Visuals + theme (Medieval) and i'm still playing.
The thing is: sometimes i feel Knight is fine, sometimes i feel Knight is very underwhelming. Its so much fun counter a flash save/ sabotage with a guard dropped in the right position, or generate pressure by punishing greed altruism; but sometimes - in stronger loops and some houses like in Haddonfield or Springwood - i feel that survivors can easily run from the Knight + Guard, specially since MFT came out.
Another thing that is very annoying is that Knight is kinda addon dependant, since you can miss a hunt without the Map of the Realm, even you land a patrol right in front of the survivor; also, Call to Arms and Dried Horsemeat feels necessary against better players, which reduces the possibility of experimenting with other addons.
So, how you guys which also main Knight feel about him now?
Knight is a killer that has a really cool concept behind him but is held back by its terrible and buggy execution.
His guard's AI has been broken since his release and still constantly breaks if a hunted survivor drops a pallet during a chase. That is, if they don't start running into a wall first. Creating patrol paths is still very clunky and very difficult for new players to get used to. Especially in maps with lots of clutter. It feels like controlling a bumper car inside of a hedge maze.
And as has been repeated ad nauseum by myself and many other Knight players, he feels awful to play unless you use 2 of the 3 add-ons he has that act as a band-aid for his problems. Map of the Realm, Call to Arms, and Dried Horsemeat. An issue that the devs are apparently completely ignorant of since the latest patch gave meaningless number changes to 3 of the add-ons that no one used because of how useless they are.
Overall, I still play and greatly enjoy Knight. But it's despite how he is designed. Not because. And I really wish he gets the fixes and buffs he deserves.
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@GroßusSchmiedus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529719#Comment_3529719
That is still a massive improvement compared to release, every single possible pallet spawn had one. It was like the game but 3 times the size and 300 times the pallets.
Going from "completely broken" to "Almost completely broken" is hardly a good improvement.
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@jajay119 said:
Survivor sided? With the amount of wide open space for killers to see you from miles away and half the map always being a dead zone for gens with sheer amounts of nothingness all round the edge? Come on now. Yes it's a terrible map, but it's not survivor sided in the slightest.
An extremely small percent of the killer roster can benefit from the massive sightlines. All of them are the best killers in the game. Nurse, Blight, Spirit, etc. Every other killer has the effectiveness of their power reduced significantly the moment they load in on the map.
What's Trapper going to do when he sees a survivor 50+ meters away? Yeet his traps? Will Pinhead seriously try to land his chains from that distance? What about Michael and Ghostface? How are they supposed to stalk survivors when they have almost nothing to hide their advance towards survivors? The list goes on.
You assume that killers being able to see survivors from miles away benefits the killer. The truth is, the opposite is true the vast majority of the time.
And that's not even mentioning the atrocious loop and pallet spawns:
- Safe window into safe pallet into jungle gym into main house
2. Several interlinked pallets all within 16 meters of each other.
3. Jungle gym leading directly in a safe pallet loop
All of these examples I took from the same match. They are not cherry picked. This map is so blatantly survivor-sided that you can reliably load into it and witness at least several broken set-ups.
Stop defending this terrible map.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527313#Comment_3527313
I dont really think that you can buff Grim Embrace. At least not with the current effect. 40 second of all Gens being blocked is not enough, I would agree on that. But you cannot really increase the time. I mean, 2 minutes of all Gens being blocked in a situation where the Map already was drained of ressources would be too much for example.
When it comes to Deadlock, I dont know why they never thought about nerfing it. It is just a stupid design, the Killer gets value by doing exactly nothing. And I mean it, it is a Perk which is very good when camping. It is already not possible to do 5 Gens while one person is on the Hook, but having to deal with Deadlock on top of it means that Survivors probably can get 3 Gens done max during those 2 minutes the person on the Hook is camped. Free value without any input.
@Topic:
The way I see it is that BHVR is way too careful when it comes to Perk Design. Look at Dark Theory, it is just bad. In general, Boons are a failed concept because except for CoH, which was most likely a Cashgrab to promote a Survivor only-Paragraph, all of them have been bad and even CoH is nuked into uselessness. Made for This is strong, but also less careful designed, because Perks like Dark Theory are just not really good and should not exist. And IMO it is better if they release strong Perks which might even be a talking point, instead of releasing Perks where everyone is just like "Eh, whatever".
Killers have it better in this regard, they usually get at least one Perk which is either universally good or at the very least good on some Killers. But for the most part, before Made for This and CoH, Survivors did not really get good Perks for years.
But I prefer them releasing Perks like Made for This and Deadlock over Perks like Dark Theory or Grim Embrace. The problem is, you will rarely find Perks which are fun for both sides and strong as well. Most of the time the fun Perks (especially when they should be fun for both sides) are not good. And the strong Perks are not perceived fun for the other side.
I can think of a way Grim Embrace could be buffed without being overbearing. The changes are as follows:
- Change the 5 seconds of aura reading on the obsession to be on all survivors. The perk has nothing to do with the obsession anyway. And the map-wide aura reading would help the killer capitalize on the gens being blocked.
- Increase the time gens remain blocked to 50 seconds. This is a no-brainer change. If the killer goes out of their way to hook every survivor they deserve more downtime.
- Let the perk be reactivated. This massively increases the potential value of the perk if the killer avoids tunnelling. And helps put it on par with Pain Resonance. Since PR effectively gives survivors an extra gen to repair after hooking everyone. And the buffed Grim Embrace would do the same if the killer gets all 8 hooks. Which is very fair for the effort required.
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@C3Tooth said:
Grim Embrace. The 40sec that if all 4 survivors hiding make the perk totally useless. But if you're chasing a survivor for 40sec while Gens dont progress, its another story.
Dead Lock is also pointless if the most progressed Gen is 10%. But its a rare case and it happens for 4 times per match.
Dark theory and MFT, everyone agree.
Grim Embrace is also mostly useless if survivors manage to repair a gen just before it activates. Letting them focus on heals/saves while they wait out the 40 seconds. It really needs a buff.
Deadlock is practically guaranteed to get at least some value every game because survivors cannot avoid triggering it unless they never spread out repairs. Which is a very bad idea as it can lead to them 3-genning themselves. I think it's pretty dumb that the killer can get up to 2 minutes of gen block time by doing nothing.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
Well thought out, thanks.
They monetize like a mobile game company does. Predatory. Obsolescence.
I agree for the most part. The constant use of FOMO when it comes to cosmetics and arbitrarily making certain sets only purchasable with real money, and others purchasable with enough time, is really scummy. Especially for a PC game that you have to pay upfront to play.
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@LGTV said:
I never really posted here, but i am what most people would consider ,,A Veteran" of this game. Bought around July 2016, played sparsely and got super hard into the game ~December 2018. Back then the game had a real thrill and the excitement of filling my library with all of the DLC's was amazing time. I was playing with my best friend, we both had terrible laptops that ran it in 20 - 30 fps cap. We had a lot of fun tho, the game was super simple and enjoyable. Got bored of the game like 2 weeks after Deathslinger hit live, then i started playing really rarely. When Blight launched i basically stopped playing entirely, until i wanted to feel nostalgia and went on to play for a week to just leave it behind.
Im not going to cry about this game changing, life goes on and we can't change it. What im trying to say is that im going to forget old DBD and embrace the brand new DBD we have now. I reccomend doing that to every single one of you fellow veterans out there! Now that im looking at this game from a difftent perspective, i find it a lot more enjoyable. I am still missing the old meta with Ruin on top, but now the old ruin is just a flashback. The way this game wasn't balanced at all made it fun for uncompetetive players.
If there are some ,,Retired Veterans" i hope you will come back to this DBD and enjoy the game we got now, and perhaps get your friends to get some nice flashbacks.
Me and my friend literally bought the same laptops we had back in the day, exact models just to play DBD like the old days (It was totally unplayable due to the evolution but whatever) and even post reworked maps brought tears to our eyes back when we were learning how to loop basic shack on old Thompson House.
Peace to everybody
Godspeed.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Exhaustion Add Ons should not be a thing anymore. Yes, they got nerfed (rightfully so since they were heavily outdated), but they should not exist at all. Yet BHVR gives Killers Exhaustion Add Ons (Singularity has one for example).
The worst offender is the one from Pig. Yes, it is not her best Add On, but it just promotes tunneling. Which should never be the playstyle of her but can help with that.
This is nonsense.
Exhaustion add-ons add variety to builds. There's nothing about them that is outdated. But Pig's power certainly is. So instead of asking for a situationally useful and fair mechanic to be removed from her add-ons, how about you offer some suggestions to make Pig's power more interesting?
Because right now you're not making a good case for yourself.
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@ARTRA said:
As a fellow Knight main. I agree with all.
Only this seems a little weird.
- The Knight may cycle through his guards by pressing the Secondary Power Button.
- The same guard may not be summoned twice in a row.
You can cycle but not all, i get it but feels weird.
And if all those changes come i could accept knight been 4.4 m/s (wich is a big deal).
And yeah Jailor need a little something.
Its not going to happen at all but well, good post.
That change was a compromise.
I wanted to allow Knight to switch between his guards more freely. Because being forced to use a specific guard at any time limits the amount of decisions you can make.
On the other hand, if you could use any guard you wanted at any time then there'd be no reason to keep spamming the Assassin in chases, Carnifex when you wanted to break stuff, and the Jailer when you wanted to find someone.
Being unable to use the same guard twice forces players to switch up what guards they use and utilize them in different situations. Rather than use the same guards in the same situations over and over again. Which isn't as interesting.
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@Gandor said:
I think this killer would have too much power now. You get that there's absolutely nothing to be done when being hunted by 2 knights + killer that are all inspired by each other?
Like sure - the devil is in details. If you provide high enough numbers, this can work. But then we are getting to same-ish territory as Meyers with his 2 ultra rare addons (he's weak until endgame, but if he gets his power soon enough, it's GG without any real counterplay - so feast or famine = people will complain he's OP and trash-tier at the same time).
I generally love the idea. It could be very cool. But I would maybe take away a mechanic or two and make things working more reliably. But overall - yes sounds very nice compared to existing knight
That's a very fair criticism.
If this rework were added it would easily be the most complicated killer power in the game. I really had to wrack my brains trying to think of a way of keeping Knight's identity as a minion-based killer, while making sure that it allowed for all players to make meaningful decisions. That's why it's so complicated. DbD chases were only designed with simple powers and mind so something as unique as Knight's has to be very well balanced to fit into the game.
Every system I invented is designed to work with every other system to create a flow for the game. You can't really remove any piece without the entire thing collapsing on itself. I don't think BHVR are ever going to give Knight a rework of this scale because it would simply be too much work. But I don't regret creating this post as it showcases what I believe Knight's full potential could be.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524880#Comment_3524880
how the Knight has to go out of their way to create a scenario where they use their power in an interesting way.
this reminds me of survivor gameplay... where survivor has to go to weaker loops for killer to get interesting gameplay but why bother going to weak loops when you can use strong loops...
If this mechanic were to be implemented all it would require would be for the Knight to look at something, press the power button, and have the game create a path for the guard to follow starting from the Knight to the closest possible point to the marked area.
yes that is how nurses blink and pinhead gateway opening works. your changing the path creation mechanic into a blind nurse mechanic. I do not see how you could implement that in global rally in any other way. I cannot imagine this being global either because you won't be able to see where your placing your guards after 50+ m
Because Knight can't see the survivors when channelling an ambush they have to guess where the survivor will go. And in turn, the survivor has to guess where the Knight will spawn the guard. This creates an opportunity for both sides to make meaningful decisions that impact a chase. Since Knight sorely lacks this in his current kit.
does he lack this in his current kit? if you use long patrol paths, the knight does have to guess where survivor is. it is just that even when you spawn a guard correctly and successfully begin guard chase. the survivor can outrun it on all 3 guards at base-kit.
Quickly swapping positions between the Knight and is guards is technically part of his power.
it is part of his power but it does not teleport him.
Think of it like nemesis zombies, when a zombie in a loop, your saying that the knight can switch position with zombie and get an m1 hit. It is like hag teleport phantasm power. you can use it like dredge's remnant power where you teleport back with remnant by using zombie guards as rally points. this is what I mean by conflicting opinion. you said you dislike binary decision making that knight can do but your mechanic allows knight to create that create situations for the survivor where binary decision gameplay occurs.
He doesn't? In order to become inspired, and get the extra movement speed, Knight's guards have to do something first. Break a pallet, hit, down or hook a survivor. Inspire exists to reward the Knight for using their guards effectively and to encourage them to play aggressively. The only reason the get it is when they use their power.
this does not answer the question. the killer does not need a mechanic to get them to use the ability. they will do that automatically when they see a benefit in using the ability. I am just asking why he gets faster movement speed and better m1 killer statistics when he is 110% m/s. it sounds counter-productive.
I'm going to be honest. I don't see any logic in your arguments.
It's like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
I think your post has conflicting opinions that oppose each other.
The challenge of playing Knight should be testing your map knowledge and out-positioning the survivors.
Interacting with Knight during a chase is binary. Either the survivor is in a position to avoid Knight's power. Or they aren't. The nuance that makes Wesker's power interesting, the ability to make multiple decisions that can impact a chase, is completely absent.
The only time that a survivor has the opportunity to make meaningful decisions in a game against Knight is when he's not using his power against the person he's chasing. When Knight splits pressure by chasing a survivor personally, and having a guard chase someone else, suddenly both survivors have meaningful choices they can make.
your first statement is saying knight should be rewarded for map knowledge and out-positioning survivors but your initial post complains about knight out-positioning survivors.
The Knight can instead now order his Guards to perform a "Scout" action by looking in a specific location and pressing the power button.
this is pretty hard to implement in a game like dbd because dbd killer is first person. there is also no minimap or real time RTS elements to plot on the map. It is not like call of duty where you can open laptop and go in 3rd person aerial view to call in an air-strike. the only way you can implement ranged deployment is using Nurse's blink system or Pinhead's gateway system.
When in a chase, the Scout action is replaced by the "Ambush" action.
Survivors cannot be seen while channelling.
these two aspects do not really mix. the killer need to have direct line of sight for the game to count the killer in the chase. you will not be able to initiate ambush action because you lost line of sight with survivor. It is little bit like spirit phase-walk where you drop chase.
Hotswapping while the Knight is chasing a survivor will cause Hotswapped guard to immediately begin hunting that survivor after teleporting.
I do not know any killer that has as an ability. not even Twin's has that with the whole Charlotte and Victor gameplay.
Inspire grants the Knight 10% Haste, 50% reduced pallet stun duration, and increased lunge range.
If your killer is 110% m/s and entirely relies on their ability to be effective then why does killer need m1 type statistics.
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the rework is interesting but I think feasibility to implement it in dbd is borderline impossible or very hard.
I don't think you understood parts of my post.
your first statement is saying knight should be rewarded for map knowledge and out-positioning survivors but your initial post complains about knight out-positioning survivors.
I never complained about Knight out-positioning survivors. I pointed out how using a guard in a chase is usually a binary decision with extremely little depth. And how the Knight has to go out of their way to create a scenario where they use their power in an interesting way.
this is pretty hard to implement in a game like dbd because dbd killer is first person.
No it wouldn't be. If this mechanic were to be implemented all it would require would be for the Knight to look at something, press the power button, and have the game create a path for the guard to follow starting from the Knight to the closest possible point to the marked area. Then set them to wander once they arrived in marked area.
The ability create a path for the AI already exists with Knight's patrol paths. And AI wandering an area already exists with Nemesis' zombies. It would just be a matter of combining the two.
these two aspects do not really mix. the killer need to have direct line of sight for the game to count the killer in the chase. you will not be able to initiate ambush action because you lost line of sight with survivor.
You've completely missed the point of this mechanic. If the Knight could see the survivors then they'd always create a guard as close as possible to them 100% of the time. It would effectively be dropping guards at loops now. Just with an extra step. Which doesn't lead to interesting gameplay.
Because Knight can't see the survivors when channelling an ambush they have to guess where the survivor will go. And in turn, the survivor has to guess where the Knight will spawn the guard. This creates an opportunity for both sides to make meaningful decisions that impact a chase. Since Knight sorely lacks this in his current kit.
I do not know any killer that has as an ability. not even Twin's has that with the whole Charlotte and Victor gameplay.
Knight already does this whenever he spawns a guard. If you slow down footage of Knight mid-summon, you can see that Knight briefly appears where the guard is going to spawn. And then re-appears where he started summoning them.
If your killer is 110% m/s and entirely relies on their ability to be effective then why does killer need m1 type statistics.
He doesn't? In order to become inspired, and get the extra movement speed, Knight's guards have to do something first. Break a pallet, hit, down or hook a survivor. Inspire exists to reward the Knight for using their guards effectively and to encourage them to play aggressively. The only reason the get it is when they use their power.
the rework is interesting but I think feasibility to implement it in dbd is borderline impossible or very hard.
Honestly, everything for this rework already exists in the game.
- Creating specific paths for the AI and the ability to make them wander already exists.
- Quickly swapping positions between the Knight and is guards is technically part of his power.
- A system that increases and decreases in level already exists with Michael.
- A power increasing with hits and hooks exists with Dredge.
- An object that builds up power over time and must be dealt with by survivors exists with Pinhead.
If I had access to the game's code and given enough time, I could probably create a really buggy version of the rework by combining together the different mechanics that already exist in the game.
So it's totally possible for the devs to do this if they really wanted to.
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@Pulsar said:
I don't know if I like it, considering I quite like how Knight plays right now, but I have to absolutely commend the amount of effort and detail that went into this.
You clearly care quite a bit about this and it shows through your excellent and well thought-out suggestions!
Thank you very much!
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524131#Comment_3524131
I mean, Would you rather them not have them available for shards like previously? they still spend time to make these skins... even if recently I don't like many of them
they are a business after all
They shouldn't have been locked behind auric cells in the first place. Especially the lazy skin re-colors.
And don't kid yourself. BHVR didn't introduce skins because they were having trouble making money. DLC's were already doing that just fine. They made skins because they wanted to make more money. And they've completely butchered DbD's artstyle in the process.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524129#Comment_3524129
Since I mentioned it being one aspect, do you have a specific one that you would prefer removing?
RPD. Easily the single worst map ever concieved in DbD.
Playing Billy, Huntress, or Deathslinger? Your power is rendered all but none-functional because of all the walls and tight corners.
Playing any killer that relies on basic attacks? You're at the mercy of the long corridors and plentiful god pallets.
Playing a killer that's good at map control? Your only viable option is to lock down a 3-gen and slow down the pace of the game to a crawl.
It's the only map that I never have fun no matter what role I'm playing, or if I win or lose. RPD is a fun vacuum. And it's ######### baffling that the "Re-work" it received did absolutely nothing to fix it.
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Why are skins even locked behind a paywall for an arbitrary amount of time when they come out? If they were licensed I would understand. But this just seems like a blatantly greedy attempt to syphon money from players.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Title. If you could change on aspect of the game, what would it be?
It can be literally anything you want, for better or worse; also dont worry about how the community will receive the change, since whatever you say will go through regardless of community reception, as per this being a hypothetical scenario.
In leu of being able to fix them, I'd remove RPD, The Game, Midwitch, Decimated Borgo, & Garden of Joy from the map pools.
They're all horrible maps for various reasons. And the quality of each match will only be improved with them gone.
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@jesterkind said:
No, this isn't a troll post.
It's no secret that Skull Merchant is a pretty disliked character overall, but the specific flavours of comments that you see about her around here tend to vary in severity and accuracy. For some, she has a clear flaw in her 3-gen strategy being overwhelmingly awful for the game and other than that she's just too weak to do anything else; I don't have an issue with this take. The take that I'd want to discuss here is the idea that her core design is fundamentally broken and can never work in DBD, necessitating a full-on ground-up rework at the level of what Freddy got all those years back, or possibly even more extreme. This take is just wrong, and I'm going to explain why I think that.
Now, before I begin, I want to make clear that I won't be going into much detail on how to actually fix Skull Merchant and capitalise on her potential (though I did make a post about that in the feedback section a little while ago). What I'm doing is pointing out what her potential is, and how her core design is one of the best we've received in a long time.
The first thing I think needs to be touched on is the distinction between core design, which is what we are discussing, and live balance, which we are not. The actual specifics of how a power is implemented, from specific numbers to the more granular effects that it has, aren't the same as the necessary core elements that make up the power's identity; to use a simple example, the necessary core identity of the Trapper's power is that he places down bear traps, but the live balance specifics would be how many spawn, how many he can carry, what exactly happens when a survivor steps in one besides immobilisation, and so forth.
Obviously, the Skull Merchant has a more complicated core design than the Trapper, because pretty much every killer that released after him does, but we can still apply that general distinction. If you can tweak it with number changes or very light adjustments, it's probably not the core design.
With all that setup done, what is the Skull Merchant's core design? Personally, I would break it down into two key concepts:
- Placing down AOE drones in key areas to capitalise on their effects, and;
- Those effects being versatile and almost modular in how much they change depending on what addons and perks are brought.
If we look at that, rather than the numbers and specifics of what her drones do on live, it's easy to see why this core design would work. It's a strategic and versatile idea, one that asks the player to create a gameplan before the match starts and craft their loadout accordingly. Even with some of the specifics we have, it's easy to see how she'd end up working; hypothetically, if numbers and specific addons were different, you'd get to build her for chase via setting up trap drones you steer survivors into, for chase via baiting survivors into hacking drones and then capitalising on the claw traps, for information via the drones being set up in pathways between generators or in spots that are difficult to reach, and for stealth via setting the drones up in those same pathways but using them yourself to get the drop on survivors.
Can she do all those things effectively on live servers right now? No, but that isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about whether the core of her design is something that could work, and it absolutely is.
When I look at the Skull Merchant's core design, I see the killer with the single most potential for genuinely varied builds in the entire game, and I see one of the most strategic killers we've ever had too. What I also see is echoes of the Artist; a killer with an insane skill ceiling and an incredibly well designed power, with a poor reputation because there's an almost braindead simple way of playing her that gets enough results for most players to never bother learning how to play her properly. The same is true of the Knight, albeit to a less extreme degree.
To repeat, I'm not going into detail on how to fix her issues and bring about this potential, that's a post I've already made and that'd be more suited to the feedback and suggestions category anyways. The scope of my little mini-essay here is just about the potential this killer design has, and how it's being overlooked as a knee-jerk reaction to how bad her 3-gen nonsense is.
It would be a shame, in my opinion, for BHVR to over-correct on the current issues and redesign away all of the massive potential this killer has, and I think the rest of the community could do with being shown what's possible considering how few people are interested in treating the Skull Merchant seriously as a killer. I hope to shed some light on that myself, here and elsewhere.
No. SM's power is undisputedly broken. She was not designed with DbD's core gameplay-loop in mind. Her power promotes the absolute worst parts of the game and the only way to salvage it is to re-work it from the ground up. I'll address your points and explain my issues with them.
"With all that setup done, what is the Skull Merchant's core design? Personally, I would break it down into two key concepts:
- Placing down AOE drones in key areas to capitalise on their effects, and;
- Those effects being versatile and almost modular in how much they change depending on what addons and perks are brought."
The first point is accurate because area control is a fundamental part of SM's power. The second is not. Perks and add-ons are not part of any killer's core design. They are augments to that design. You can use a killer's power without perks and add-ons, but you cannot use perks and add-on's without a power. This is a small issue but still worth mentioning.
"If we look at that, rather than the numbers and specifics of what her drones do on live, it's easy to see why this core design would work. It's a strategic and versatile idea, one that asks the player to create a gameplan before the match starts and craft their loadout accordingly. Even with some of the specifics we have, it's easy to see how she'd end up working; hypothetically, if numbers and specific addons were different, you'd get to build her for chase via setting up trap drones you steer survivors into, for chase via baiting survivors into hacking drones and then capitalising on the claw traps, for information via the drones being set up in pathways between generators or in spots that are difficult to reach, and for stealth via setting the drones up in those same pathways but using them yourself to get the drop on survivors."
You fail to address the biggest issue with SM that is the reason why her design fails. Her ability to lock down 3-gens. You can make all of the theoretical number changes to her power that you want. That doesn't change the fact that the most efficient way to her will remain as your her tent and waiting for the game to kill the survivors for you. Even if you were give her buffs that encourage her to actively chase survivors, that won't change how her power is fundamentally designed. And it is designed to be most effective at camping 3-gens.
The only way to fix this problem is to re-work SM's power so the most engaging, and viable way to play her promotes interactivity between players. Something like allowing her drones to hover around the map would be a good start.
"Can she do all those things effectively on live servers right now? No, but that isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about whether the core of her design is something that could work, and it absolutely is.
When I look at the Skull Merchant's core design, I see the killer with the single most potential for genuinely varied builds in the entire game, and I see one of the most strategic killers we've ever had too."
This paragraph proves nothing. All you've done is state how great you think the potential for SM's power is. You have once again ignored the issues that plague her core design. You have a fantastical version of what you want SM to be that is massively at odds with the reality of the game she's in.
DbD is at its most fun when players have the option of making meaningful choices. Having a killer power revolve around keeping survivors away from a specific area is antithetical to this. That is why SM's power is fundamentally flawed. It doesn't promote interesting choices. It promotes doing the same thing over and over again.
"It would be a shame, in my opinion, for BHVR to over-correct on the current issues and redesign away all of the massive potential this killer has, and I think the rest of the community could do with being shown what's possible considering how few people are interested in treating the Skull Merchant seriously as a killer. I hope to shed some light on that myself, here and elsewhere."
I agree. I would rather DbD be given more options for fun and interesting killers. Instead of less. But if they seriously want SM to be one of these options they're going to have to do an overhaul bigger than Freddy's. And considering the content pipeline that BHVR is determined to keep supporting, they're not likely to divert so much time and resources to fix a killer as broken as SM.
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@temporalsettlement said:
- Adding Map of the Realm to The Knight as basekit and in return, nerf Map of the Realm.
- Manually cycle guards.
- The Knight can recall his guard that's on patrol at any distance. The closer he is to the patrolling guard, the shorter the cooldown.
- Combine Broken Hilt and Chain Mail Fragment, rework one of these Add-Ons.
- Add half of Call To Arms to his basekit then nerf half of this Add-On.
- Rework Battle Axe Head, Cold Steel Manacles & Treated Blade.
- Rework Town Watch's Torch and Ironworker's Tongs.
- After The Knight summons a guard, the patrol circle will instantly expand.
- A guard during a hunt should not run around a loop after a pallet is dropped by the Survivor.
- The Knight can now order a guard to break walls, generators and pallets when he's too close to it, so you don't have to move a few centimeters away to use your power.
My suggestion on the Add-Ons rework:
Town Watch's Torch
- During a hunt, all Survivors who are inside the guard's circle will be revealed to The Knight.
Ironworker's Tong
- When hit by a guard, reduce the repair and healing speed by x% until fully healed.
Chain Mail Fragment
- When hit by a guard, grant the Broken effect for x seconds.
Battle Axe Head
- When The Carnifex is on the hunt, when the hunted Survivor vaults a pallet, The Carnifex will break the pallet and continue the hunt.
Cold Steel Manacles
- When hit by The Jailer, the brand is marked on the Survivor. Every few seconds, the survivor will scream and reveal their Aura to The Knight. The mark last x seconds.
Treated Blade
- The Assassin is now silent. He doesn't make any sound during a patrol and doesn't show its patrol range. The Assassin doesn't show the Survivors on the HUD if he's on the hunt and doesn't scream.
Edit:
Removed: "Increase The Assassin's hunt duration."
Added: "The Knight can now order a guard to break walls, generators and pallets when he's too close to it, so you don't have to move a few centimeters away to use your power."
I'm happy to see someone with some genuinely good suggestions on how to fix Knight. It makes my own WIP post that aims to re-work Knight completely seem a little less daunting.
Good job!
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These changes are so bizarre. None of the "buffed" add-ons are worth running. They really seem like change just for the sake of change.
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"Is active forever so long as you aren't exhausted (Which it doesn't cause by itself)."
"Only requires the survivor to be injured."
@camping_site said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514542#Comment_3514542
You also said it is active forever. So clarification was in place.
I already clarified it.
Either you're being deliberately obtuse. Or you just didn't bother reading my comment.
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@camping_site said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3514510#Comment_3514510
It is active only when injured and not exhausted. So survivors must avoid exhaustion perks (the most powerful one FYI) to get value. Seems balanced. Unlike handholding bloodlust.
I already said that the perk was active when injured and not exhausted. You've apparently managed to read my comment and not only repeat something I already said, but also ignore my point completely.
MfT and Bloodlust are not even close to comparable. Stop acting like they are.
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@camping_site said:
Killers get free bloodlust after 15 sec - 5%. You should be ashamed for this post.
This is such an unbelievably dumb comparison.
Bloodlust:
- Disables when breaking pallets, getting stunned, using most killer powers, & landing basic attacks.
- Requires the killer to commit to a chase for at least 15 seconds.
Made For This:
- Is active forever so long as you aren't exhausted (Which it doesn't cause by itself).
- Only requires the survivor to be injured. Which is incredibly low-risk when lots of other perks also benefit you when injured.
I'm really hoping you were just baiting and don't seriously think bloodlust is anywhere as broken as MfT.
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@Benno101 said:
lmao again this person feels the need to complain on the internet about ANYTHING, this add on doesn't affect you in any way, can't even get the facts right.
How to stop anyone taking you seriously in one sentence ^
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@th3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3513241#Comment_3513241
I quite literally used dramaturgy and got a medkit with both addons but the styptic was first. When I used it, the stypic endurance occurred at the same time the syringe timer was counting down in the bottom of my screen.
Your point while incorrect has some truth. If you are hit while the styptic effect is active the syringe is canceled. Also I commented this because this happened to me ingame right before I left the comment.
I had to jump into a survivor game after reading your comment to see if you were right. Turns out you were. Which baffles me because I distinctly remember doing the exact same thing a couple of patches ago and it didn't work.
Why does random ######### keep changing for no reason?