Seraphor
Seraphor
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@Rudjohns said:
Because killer mains complained about 2 survivors inside 2 lockers side by side with flashlights (Something very easy to counter and it used to happen in like 1 every 50 games at best)
And now everybody has to face a better flashlight save as a whole.
It might have happened rarely, but it was literally impossible to counter. That's why it was fixed.
I'd like to hear this "very easy" solution.
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Do you mean... Tenacity?
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319830#Comment_3319830
Idk a SWF memeing doesn’t make a map survivor sided. And I’ve personally never struggled to reach hooks on Midwich. Maybe that’s a personal issue. I tend to perform really well on that small map with LOS of both exit gates, one god pallet and one good loop (that can be disrupted by breaking a door).
This is the thing.
Every map is killer sided and survivor sided, depending on who you ask, with very few having a consensus (Eyrie, Garden, Mothers) and even fewer that have actual data to back it up in the form of higher/lower kill rates (Eyrie, again, getting fixed).
This is why maps aren't that unbalanced, and why map offerings aren't a problem. It's a perception issue, and I know you're all going to continue to disagree because you can't get past your irrational beliefs.
"Oh no he din't call my opinion an 'irrational belief'"
Unless you have the data to back it up, yes.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319819#Comment_3319819
It’s always been killer sided.
But killers can't reach the hooks, sabo squads play Mary's Letter, and the OP was complaining about being sent there as killer...
I do love it when survivors send me to Midwich as Dredge though.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319760#Comment_3319760
You missed several awful maps. Groaning Store House and Mothers Dwell are horrible. I wish they'd remove the offerings because they are just blood web filler.
I admit Mothers Dwelling is a tad too big for M1 killers. But you throw any killer with an ounce of mobility on there and it's not a problem for them. Some of my best Demo and Dredge games have been on that map.
Ultimately, every map is viable.
Any killer can win or lose on any map. I have won and lost on every map. Simply ending up on a particular map doesn't determine the outcome of the game. This is why it's a player issue, and not a mechanics issue. Map offerings are a problem because people think they're a problem. So hide them.
If a map did significantly affect the outcome, the data would back it up, and the devs would address it, as they are with Eyrie.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319760#Comment_3319760
Also maps like Midwich, the Crotus Penn maps, and Shelterwoods. Really any map that spawns both exit gates within LOS.
So is Midwich killer sided or survivor sided? I can't keep up.
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@Jay_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319760#Comment_3319760
Maps being unbalanced is why map offerings are broken. A lot of the maps are problomatic. for majority of killers The game is just pallet kick simulator. Corn is just screw your vision basicly.
I actually prefer the old eyrie to the new smaller one. the smaller one has so many connecting loops because they have shoved what seems like the same amount of tiles in a smaller area but that might just be me.
Having map offerings hidden i think would help majority of times but removing them all together and letting the map gen be purely RNG would be the fairest way to do things. None of this "spotlight map rotations" just purely every map has X% chance of being picked and thats it.
The map veto system would be a fairer way to do it because there are so many unbalanced maps it lets players (if they have the offering to do so) just not play the map they are gonna insta DC on or insta AFK on.
If maps being unbalanced is the reason why map offerings are broken (strange logic) then what happens when you end up on an unbalanced map without a map offering? Do you give up? Do you rage about ending up on an unbalanced map by pure chance? Should that map be fixed so it's not unbalanced or is everything ok because you didn't end up here via an offering?
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Bye bye mirror myers and ghost face. You will be missed.
But no, map offerings aren't a problem. Unbalanced maps are a problem, and even then, the majority of those are just players overreacting. Only real problematic maps are Eyrie (getting fixed), Garden of Joy (not massively problematic) and Borgo (jury's still out, I've played this map like 3 times)
If you could have ended up on the map anyway, why does it matter that an offering was played?
The real solution is to make map offerings hidden so you can't get triggered by them.
And if map offerings really are "too powerful" (which I don't agree with) then increase their rarity. Make them very rare, and add in map veto's as an additional uncommon offering.
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@Lamoore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318886#Comment_3318886
Survivors would counter this by not unhooking the first survivor hooked. Making the killer perk useless. Also completely unfair for that player who had the misfortune if being found / downed first. Weren't we all trying to increase solo q survivor chances of escaping?
Survivors would try to counter one killer perk (that they can't possibly know is in play yet) by throwing the game?
This is like trying to counter Devour Hope and Make Your Choice by letting everyone die on hook...
Even once it activates, survivors wouldn't necessarily know it's in play, and if they did, how would they communicate that to each other in solo q? Someone would go for the save. And if like you say, they don't, then the game's lost anyway, killer gets an easy tunnel.
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Strange, I end up on either Coldwind/MacMillan/Autohaven probably 80-90% of the time if a map offering isn't played. I'm so fed up of them, they're so boring.
I'd rather burn a map offering for RPD or Gideon for some variety. But Dead Dawg, Yamaoka and Red Forest are my favourites.
Forget Borgo and Eyrie though, or Swamp for that matter.
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It's one of the safer realms for survivors.
None of them are particularly killer sided and one is very survivor sided.
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I get "remove No Mither", the perk in it's current form is pretty stupid. But it could easily be made useful with some minor changes.
Simply starting the game healthy, and only becoming broken after you lose that first health state would make it far more valuable.
The killer wouldn't know to target you until they already were, and there's a chance they may not even notice the broken status for a period of time.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319497#Comment_3319497
Correction, that's the fourth time you ignored it.
That's ambitious.
I misunderstood. I thought you meant they didn't say make camping and tunnelling impossible. There's also no need for the snark grandpa.
But the fact is, you still can't do that. There is no way to "just balance it" after you make a fundamental mechanic impossible. So many suggestions are just "fix this and then just balance the repercussions" without any thought about what it would take to balance it.
As I detailed here, making camping and tunnelling impossible means the killer loses at 1 gen, if there are any survivors not on death hook, no questions.
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319290#Comment_3319290
Camping or tunneling after 4-5 gens have been completed is not ruining a survivors game, it can be the only way for the killer to make any progress in some cases where not doing so would be throwing the game.
They need to be possible choices, but they need to cost the killer enough that doing them early in the game puts them at a disadvantage.
If camping and tunnelling were impossible, however the mechanism, you'd get cases where survivors are under no threat once 4-5 gens are completed. They won't even fear getting hooked, because they know they'll be rescued because camping is forbidden, and they know they'll escape because tunneling is forbidden. It'll be BT bodyblocking and old DS turned up to 11. Survivors not on death hook will be able to throw themselves at the killer in the endgame completely safe, as not even getting hooked will lose them the game.
"Just disable the anti-camping/tunneling mechanics at endgame"?
Then survivors just 99 gates or 99 the last gen.
Shared hook states are suggested on a weekly basis and swiftly shot down as the terrible idea they are.
They won't discourage tunneling. If anything they'll promote it. If you need to make 8 hooks before you can eliminate anyone, why wouldn't you target the weak link to ensure you get those 8 hooks as quick as possible?
Now you're not being tunneled for 3 hooks, you're being tunneled for 8 hooks.
Now that potato survivor getting themselves downed all the time is consuming your hook states so when you are eventually caught, you die instantly on your first hook.
The only 'balances' I could possible see that would make this feasible would be something like:
- Camping is impossible, but whoever makes a hook rescue gets automatically and immediately hooked themselves.
Or:
- Tunnelling is impossible, but an unhooked survivor cannot move or carry out any action until another survivor has been downed.
Both of which are equally and obviously problematic in their own right. Otherwise, it's just free time or opportunities the survivors have while the killers hands are tied and they're in no danger.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319478#Comment_3319478
I wouldn't ever do such a thing.
Just, y'know. The aggressive terminology and the way you went off about it activates the almonds.
Dude didn't even say that camping should just be straight impossible, period, no negotiations. He said it should be balanced around if it was. That's actually the second or third time you ignored that part.
"Make camping and tunnelling impossible."
Yes they did.
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Combine a Healing build with an Unhook build.
75% of the time if the killer isn't nearby, survivors stop under the hook to let you heal them.
We'll Make It, flashes up on their screen when you're nearby after an unhook, and increases your healing speed by a whopping 100%. By all means the best perk to have in a healing build.
I'd go with: We'll Make It, Botany Knowledge, Empathy + whatever else you want. This gives you forewarning when a survivor is about to go down so you can be ready nearby for the unhook for 150% increasing healing.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319016#Comment_3319016
I could physically feel you spit with that last sentence.
That one's a classic.
Are you implying I'm a killer main?
People who only play one role post biased nonsense. You need to play both roles to understand how the game works guys.
Saying things like "camping should be impossible" is a blatant confession to never playing killer in any real capacity.
Even as someone who doesn't camp and tunnel out of principle (because I play survivor and know how it feels) I still recognise that it is a necessary mechanic under certain circumstances, which even I will use occasionally.
- All gens done, 3 survivors healed out of sight and one is on the hook. I don't have a choice but to camp.
- Unhooked survivor bodyblocks with BT/OTR and forces me to hit them. They forced me to tunnel them and need to learn that these anti-tunnel measures are there to protect you, not to be used as weapons against the killer.
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Anniversary can't be just a game health chapter, that should be one chapter before or after.
It either needs a really good OG chapter, which I'd say Dredge's was, so of that quality. Or a big name license. Like, Jason, Candyman, Alien or bust.
New objectives are always welcome. Well... as long as they're not broken *coughCoHcough*
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319068#Comment_3319068
The rush of the terror radius while I try and hide and hope he doesn't find me.
The developers made this a game of hide and seek. They STILL call it that, to this very day. But the community decided "Nah, we playing NASCAR now."
It's honestly far more exhilarating duping a killer either before or during chase, and they're left baffled at where you vanished to, than it is running around the same stack of boxes 50 times until you're forced to drop the pallet.
As killer, if a survivor is looking to loop me somewhere with a pallet still up. I'll just give them a knowing look and walk away. You're not wasting my time.
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I would rather:
- Remove all BP offerings from the bloodweb.
- Be able to convert anything into a BP offering of the same rarity.
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@Nihlus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319016#Comment_3319016
Things that completely ruin one person's match should definitely be removed from the game. Other ideas: shared hook states. No one dies until there's a 9th hook. There are plenty of ways to make the game not absolutely unbearable for one person each match. And that goes for things like bully squads. How about stun resistance? Can't be stunned within 5 seconds of just ending a stun? No more chain headons. Same with blinds. There are plenty of things that negatively affect the players behind the screen that we can and should work to get rid of for the sake of everyone.
Camping or tunneling after 4-5 gens have been completed is not ruining a survivors game, it can be the only way for the killer to make any progress in some cases where not doing so would be throwing the game.
They need to be possible choices, but they need to cost the killer enough that doing them early in the game puts them at a disadvantage.
If camping and tunnelling were impossible, however the mechanism, you'd get cases where survivors are under no threat once 4-5 gens are completed. They won't even fear getting hooked, because they know they'll be rescued because camping is forbidden, and they know they'll escape because tunneling is forbidden. It'll be BT bodyblocking and old DS turned up to 11. Survivors not on death hook will be able to throw themselves at the killer in the endgame completely safe, as not even getting hooked will lose them the game.
"Just disable the anti-camping/tunneling mechanics at endgame"?
Then survivors just 99 gates or 99 the last gen.
Shared hook states are suggested on a weekly basis and swiftly shot down as the terrible idea they are.
They won't discourage tunneling. If anything they'll promote it. If you need to make 8 hooks before you can eliminate anyone, why wouldn't you target the weak link to ensure you get those 8 hooks as quick as possible?
Now you're not being tunneled for 3 hooks, you're being tunneled for 8 hooks.
Now that potato survivor getting themselves downed all the time is consuming your hook states so when you are eventually caught, you die instantly on your first hook.
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Trickster by a mile.
When I play Trickster, I can't hit a damn thing, recoil sends my knives everywhere except at the survivor.
When I play against Trickster, every single knife is a bullseye and I go down in seconds.
Second would be Legion, but only because I spend half the match trying to run away from my team mates so we don't all end up in a pile together.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319016#Comment_3319016
That's not even close to what they are suggesting.
They are saying that if we remove camping and tunneling, we can balance the game around having 4 Survivors alive for the majority of the game, ie, making Killers more powerful.
You're talking about an entirely different game then.
Maybe ideas for DBD2.
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@Nihlus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318885#Comment_3318885
The solutions are very simple, but they will never be done. Make camping and tunneling impossible. Hooks get teleported randomly to another place and the killer gets no knowledge of where. Can even make it invisible to him. Unhooked people... Cannot be damaged and have no collision until fully healed or perform a conspicuous action. Bam. You cannot camp or tunnel anyone ever again.
Now balance the rest of the game on the fact that you expect to have all 4 survivors in the game almost the entire time.
Make camping and tunnelling impossible.
Assuming that camping and tunnelling should be illegal tactics and aren't in fact intended to be a choice the killer can make. They should be a costly choice, but a choice nonetheless.
Unhooked people... Cannot be damaged and have no collision until fully healed or perform a conspicuous action.
Permanent invulnerability!
Even without collision, can you imagine how insane this would be? Imaging spotting an injured survivor, so you chase them as the easy target they rightfully are. You spend 60 seconds in chase, then you go to hit them, and you phase right through them. That's right, that clicky flashlight neon Feng was a dupe!
Always the same from survivor mains.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318792#Comment_3318792
Accessibility and balance reasons. Making survivors locked in first person is one of the easiest ways to kill this game.
I literally said "option".
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318890#Comment_3318890
If you already don't tunnel then you're not really the kind of killer any proposed changes are aimed at.
Sure, adding more incentives may help somewhat, but if a killer feels like they need to tunnel to win, they're still gonna do it, and perks like Make Your Choice already existing and not being very popular prove the incentive needs to be pretty damn strong to make much difference.
But I don't tunnel because I'm able to utilise perks that help me to not tunnel. If I had nothing like MYC available, I'd be shooting myself in the foot in the current state of the game.
MYC is particularly niche because it only really benefits high mobility killers, or requires the use of specific info perks like Floods of Rage, and because it's not a regression perk.
Using the token perk example I posted above with the regression option, would be a very popular perk in the current state of the game.
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@Slowpeach said:
Teleporting survivors to different hooks on hook even basement hooks and not notifying the killer of where they are OR when they are unhooked would help immensely (including on the interface which would have a delay). In addition to hiding their grunts of pain, blood, scratch marks etc. for a short period after that. I try play nice as killer and I have to sometimes go out of my way to avoid finding a weakened survivor fresh off hook I get so many gimmes. Grunts of pain, a massive unhook sound, scratch marks if I return to that location. Please.
Obviously this can’t be done in a vacuum because certain killer perks would have to be changed as to not notify them of the unhook for a delayed period not to mention that it would significantly buff survivors which means this will never happen because it doesn’t magically fix everything in one go and leaves a few issues even if this will significantly help a long standing issue and could be good in the long run.
I already run Make Your Choice so as to not tunnel, and this change would prevent me from capitalising on Make Your Choice, and thereby prevent my own anti-tunnel mechanism...
Not least, sometimes camping or tunnelling is simply the correct play, particularly at or near endgame where it's not something that ruins the game for survivors. As such, camping and tunnelling should always be a choice the killer can make. That choice just has to be sufficiently costly, and not free.
Another idea for counter tunnelling specifically, could be a chase perk that triggers after you've been unhooked. Something like "For 60s after being unhooked, your next Exhaustion status only lasts for 5 seconds." Which would give freshly tunnelled survivors the opportunity to double up on Exhaustion perk use in that chase and make it cost the killer more time.
Alternatively, you idea could be a survivor perk. This way the survivor is spending a resource to use this counter. Something like "You are unable to unhook yourself, attempting to do so will instead move you to another random hook and hide the aura of that hook from the killer for 30 seconds."
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@Krazzik said:
You can't 'fix' tunnelling with how hooks and hook states work right now.
If you buff recently-unhooked survivors more, either through perks or basekit buffs, they'll just use it aggressively to bodyblock and harass the killer.
If you 'incentivise' killers to not tunnel, you'd need the incentive to be as good or better than removing someone from the game early, which it never will be, so people will just ignore the incentive. No, old BBQ did not do a great job at this because you could tunnel someone out, -then- just hook everyone else.
DS could be buffed back up to 5 seconds, since it's pretty weak at the moment, but other than that I don't think anything more can be done. 10 seconds of endurance and 10% haste is already enough to give the tunnelled survivor a chance to get to a loop. If they can't use that loop well, that's not the killer's fault.
"you'd need the incentive to be as good or better than removing someone from the game early"
Not at all. Most killers don't want to tunnel, it's not fun gameplay. It just needs to be enough of a benefit that "not tunnelling" isn't a lost cause.
I already don't tunnel, because I tend to run things like Make Your Choice.
Either way, even if these incentives aren't massive, it will decrease the amount of tunnelling on average. There's no harm in implementing them. It doesn't need to completely remove tunnelling to be worth adding to the game.
If a survivor only gets tunnelled out 1 in every 6 games instead of 1 in every 4 games, it's an improvement.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318765#Comment_3318765
I don't disagree, but it would also be a fairly significant buff for killers - particularly Blight and Huntress (I see a lot of Shadowborn on them for a reason, more than likely).
I'm not averse to the idea, but it's something that would definitely need testing in the wild.
Certain killer powers are hindered more by the disorientation than others, Blight, Billy, Oni, etc. so it makes sense that these killers would run Shadowborn.
I'm not so sure why Huntresses do, but maybe Huntress players are already in a 'sniper' mindset anyway and are used to picking out small details and movement at a distance, so are able to manage with the increased distance that Shadowborn instils.
Either way, powerful killers shouldn't be a reason to prevent global buffs that would benefit weaker killers more. Blight deserves at least an add on pass at this point, if not a rework like Nurse is getting, so that these sort of things aren't such big issues.
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Do you have any other ideas?
Some of the best anti-tunnel mechanics are in fact killer perks.
Old BBQ was one of them, as it not only took you away form the hook with it's info (so you didn't have the opportunity to tunnel) but it also encouraged hooking all survivors at least once before the end of the game. You could theoretically still tunnel and claim this, but without a 4K being a foregone conclusion, tunnelling could result in you losing a stack.
Additionally, perks like Gift of Pain, Make Your Choice, etc. also either dissuade against tunnelling or flat out don't work if you do.
More perks like this, particularly if they're strong enough to be considered meta, would result in a decrease in tunnelling. Of course they wouldn't eliminate it entirely, what if a killer doesn't want to run these perks? But some, maybe many, will, and those killers won't tunnel.
One perk format idea I have is:
- Hooking a survivor for the first time grants one token.
- Sacrificing or killing a survivor removes one token.
You then grant a powerful effect for these tokens such as:
- Each token increases your movement speed by 1% (this would be like permanent Bloodlust Tier 1 if you hook all survivors but don't kill any)
- Each token increases regression when kicking a gen by 2% (you regress a gen by 10.5% when kicking a gen if all four survivors are hooked and alive)
- When this perk has 4 tokens, you see the auras of any survivors within 8 meters. (all or nothing, hook all survivors for wall hacks until one is eliminated)
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There are however only 2-3 vault locations on the entire map. The pallets balance out the lack of windows.
Ultimately, if killers have a lower kill rate on The Game, which is info the devs have, then it might get 'nerfed'. If not, then this problem isn't one affecting average kill rates and it more of a niche or even just a perceived issue.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318767#Comment_3318767
Which would then result in the corresponding killer nerfs.
Killers slug, because they fear the last survivor escapes through the hatch and writes "gg ez". Removing the hatch would completely solve this. Not only that, it would also help with endgame toxicity. Since a lot of survivors prefer to hide and wait for their teammates to get caught first/run the killer to their teammates.
I don´t see the problem here. Only a solution to a lot of issues.
You want to nerf killers to the point that a 1v1 scenario with multiple generators to complete would be even odds?
Do you understand what that would mean?
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"You should have deliberately stayed away."
Er... no. They left the hook, went across the entire map, checking for survivors. Every effort was made not to camp. But when you fail to find survivors, you have to go to survivors objectives to find them. A hooked survivor is one of them.
30 seconds is a long time for no progress to occur, and a big risk for generators to be completed. 30 seconds before returning to the hook is one of the most reasonable 'non camping' scenarios I've ever seen.
The idea that 'proxy camping' now includes scouring the entire map before returning to the hook is bizarre.
Maybe survivors should deliberately avoid generators?
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318792#Comment_3318792
Yes, and some people do not play killer because it is only available in 1st person.
So we acknowledge there's a fundamental problem with the FoV for killers?
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As an option, why not?
@Pulsar said:
Motion sickness, the video game.
...but, killers... already have First Person...
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@Tsulan said:
Removing the Hatch would solve this instantly.
And generate it's own host of problems, not least turning every 3K into an automatic 4K because the final survivor hasn't a hope in hell of repairing generators by themself.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3317349#Comment_3317349
I'd love hook states, because for the most part I go in trying to 2 hook everyone.
FOV is...eh, tricky.
Honestly, I'd rather see some tweaks to maps and some addon passes, maybe small buffs to Demo, Trapper, Trickster & co.
FoV is a necessary QoL change.
For one, it's an accessibility issue as too narrow/wide FoV's can cause motion sickness for some people. Those people shouldn't be forced to run a perk to play the game.
Secondly, the native 87 degree FoV is bizarrely small (most games range form 90 to 110) and makes killer gameplay incredibly disorienting. The kind of survivor "techs" that have been made possible because of this are frankly absurd and should never have been in the game to begin with. Things like hiding directly in front of the killer, crouched, and still somehow outside of their FoV.
A higher FoV would not advantage the killer so much as it would simply make playing killer feel more confortable. This is evident by the fact that Shadowborn is basically considered a pointless perk, unless you're using it purely for a more comfortable gaming experience because you're sick of the disorientation or literally sick from motion sickness.
It also comes with it's own drawbacks, pros and cons, swings and roundabouts. A higher FoV means you lose detail at a distance, and you can be blinded by flashlights from a wider angle. It's flat out not a straight buff, but a sliding scale of benefits and hindrances. Hence, why it should be an optional sliding scale setting.
But, would it increase kill rates? Potentially, as a less disoriented killer will likely be a more effective killer. Lower skilled killers are more likely to benefit as they're less able to deal with the disorientation. Thus this QoL change would be considered a slight buff. Which is why it's the perfect sort of killer buff to counter this solo-to-SWF sort of survivor buff.
It's also the sort of global killer buff that's sorely needed. So often survivors receive buffs that are shared by all survivors using any build, such as basekit BT. Meanwhile the vast majority of killer buffs end up being things like specific killer buffs, or killer perk buffs, things that don't globally benefit all killers.
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Map Offerings are great.
They allow certain builds to be viable (Scratched/Vanity Mirror Myers, Ghost Face in general, Sabo / unhookable builds, etc.)
They cost an offering slot to use. This is a resource all players have, and can already be used to turn the game to your advantage, by altering hook placement, survivor, chest and hatch spawns, mist, and luck. Choosing a map is no more or less out of line than any of these.
Maps generally aren't as big of a factor as a lot of players like to whine they are. Every map is viable. Every killer can win or lose on every map, and they do. If kill rates are significantly out on a particular map, the devs would know and do something about it, like they are with Eyrie. It might take time but it would happen, if it's necessary.
Most of people's issues with maps is the perceived intention of the opposition, which isn't necessarily correct. If they ended up on a map they didn't like by chance then they chalk it up to bad luck and play anyway, but if they see a map offering for that map in the loading screen, they have a tantrum. This proves that the maps themselves aren't the biggest problem, it's the psychological effect of the offerings. This could be solved by making map offerings hidden like mori's and shrouds.
It could be argued that map offerings are less costly for survivors than killers, considering each offering has the same weight, but survivors have four chances to use them to the killers one. So if I was reworking map offerings personally, I would do something like this:
- Make all realm offerings hidden.
- Killers retain 100% realm offerings, but their rarity is increased to Very Rare (purple).
- Survivors lose 100% realm offerings, but gain 33% realm offerings, which are of Uncommon (Yellow) rarity. This means if survivors want to guarantee a realm, at least three of them need to use the same offering.
- Sacrificial Ward becomes Uncommon (Yellow) for both sides.
- Bonus: (can take it or leave it) Survivors also gain access to 'Combo Realm Offerings'. A few select combinations like "Badham, Gideon and Midwich" or "Coldwind, MacMillan and Azarovs" which give a 66% chance to end up on one of those three realms. These would be Rare (Green).
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
One thing they should do; If 2-3 hooks go by without a Scourge Hook being used, then the Scourge Hooks closest to the edge of the map deactivate, and the ones farthest from any map edges activate as Scourge Hooks.
Just to shake it up.
Or, every time a Scourge Hook it used; it deactivates, and a normal Hook becomes a Scourge Hook.
And every time a normal hook is used, a Scourge Hook somewhere on the map cycles to a new Hook.
Giving me an idea for a scourge perk concept.
- No hooks begin as Scourge hooks.
- The first four non-scourge hooks you use transform into Scourge hooks when a survivor is rescued from them.
- When a Scourge hook is permanently destroyed, X happens. Let's say... all generators regress at x% for x seconds or all survivors auras are revealed.
This means you get to choose which hooks are Scourges, but you don't get any other Scourge perks for your first four (different) hooks. And in exchange for giving up four scourge hook events, you get a bonus for using them to sacrifice a survivor.
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This does seem like something that should be available.
In the mean time, you can look up the ability of any killer you don't have in the store.
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These 'inconsistencies' are what allow you to use these perks at different times.
If they all triggered under the same conditions, then you'd hit one button and activate all three at once. Considering they do different, often contradictory things, this wouldn't be ideal.
Besides, you can consider them as having different 'cooldowns' in relating to their relative strength.
Repressed Alliance being the most effective as it guards against regression, has a fixed charge time, while Blast Mine which merely stuns and delays the killer by a few seconds, can have it's equal charge time augmented by repair speed bonuses. Wiretap being purely info and not protective itself, has the shortest charge time.
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Can you not remove map offerings please? They're one of the few fun things in the game and are crucial to many killer builds.
Balance these two maps instead.
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@MrMori said:
I think Prove Thyself should stack with itself.
It could be an alternative way of working if Prove Thyself:
- Only gave a maximum of +15%
- Stacked with the effect from other survivors.
This way, any more than 1 additional survivor and it would require all participating survivors to run the perk, instead of just one.
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@BaskinTimi said:
Prove thyself only earns you like 6 second extra if you are doing gens as 2 survivor.
It only really shines when there are 3 or 4 survivors because the bonus gets bigger every time.
but since this happens rarely and most of the gens are either done solo or duo you dont need to worry that much
and it gives you bonus blood points which is nice and doesnt affect the killer
The bonus isn't actually getting bigger, it's merely matching in turn the penalty you get for stacking survivors.
Each additional survivor on a gen decreases your repair speed by 15%.
Prove thyself increases your repair speed by 15% for each additional survivor.
In theory, they cancel out, but in practice, because maths, Prove Thyself doesn't quite make up for the penalty, and so multiple survivors with Prove Thyself is still less efficient than each of those survivors working a single gen by themselves. This is telegraphed by the fact that the repair gauge is still Red with Prove Thyself. If it was cancelling it out it would be White, and if it was increasing your efficiency it would be Yellow.
Prove Thyself is a hindrance early in the game. You're not gaining any efficiency over splitting up, and having multiple survivors in the same spot when the killer is patrolling is good for the killer and bad for survivors. It's a gamble, and you have to hope that you finish the gen before the killer finds you or it's all wasted. I can't count how many times I've had 4 stack on a gen with Prove, get the gen to 90%, then the killer comes and chases us all off, leading to that gen regressing back to zero.
Prove Thyself really only benefits survivors when they're down to the last 1 or 2 gens and they have to work at beating out the killers patrols/pressure. And yet in the most dire situations, survivors still get better results when splitting up and each doing a different generator, so that the killer is forced to pressure multiple objectives.
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@stvnhthr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318059#Comment_3318059
SWF is an option and not the default play mode. Most players are solo ques so why punish the majority of players to benefit the few?
Because it's still an option.
Why should that option be given even further advantages?
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You were proxy camping.
The entire map was your proxy.
Why you no stand in a corner and go AFK?
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Tastin' them Myer's stank.
Boom chacka boom chacka boom!
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Let's see...
Army of Bills: Loaded into a solo lobby as a Bill, with one other Bill, the next two that joined each swapped to Bill, and we had a great game where we all coordinated flawlessly without comms and bodyblocked for each other on the final run to the exit gate.
Quadruple Tap: Most recently, managed to score four stuns/blinds against a ghostface by 1. bodyblocking until he dropped a survivor 2. diving into a locker and stunning again with Head On as he recovered and 3. dropping a flashbang during the Head On. The cherry on the cake was when he then want back to my gen and got hit by Blast Mine.
And this one I'm not entirely proud of but at the time it was a rush: Killing all survivors in about 45s as Spirit. Grab off generator 15 seconds into the game, hook, grab off rescue attempt, hook, rescue is made, phase back, down, slug, down, hook, phase, down, hook, go back for slug, hook.
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I mean, you could be an M1 killer that has to get through Three health states. At least it's only Two as Plague.
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Also a build I often run, I don't typically regard it as much of a handicap these days, but it is devoid of any slowdown and basically only shines in one specific scenario, plus reduces your FoV:
GoKart Ghost Face
Add ons for: faster movement speed while crouched, and smaller terror radius while crouched.
Perks: PWYF, NOED, Agitation and for fourth I use Mad Grit for Agi synergy but you could easily go with Devour Hope.
The idea is to increase your movement speed as much as possible and crouch everywhere. PWYF = +15%, NOED = +4% at end game, Agi = +18% while carrying, and Devour potentially +4% after a hook.
Zoom zoom!
https://youtu.be/bAZ3Qyj-AyA -
Like Ruin, I think they simply wanted to nerf it for the sake of removing it from the meta. Particularly because of OTR and worries of players stacking both perks.