Seraphor
Seraphor
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- Seraphor
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If the data (kill rates) backs it up, sure. Otherwise it's all conjecture.
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It's a bit of an art, but it's not an insurmountable challenge. If you get revealed sometimes the best play is to leave that survivor and go for someone else, depending on how much stalk you managed to get off.
Also his power isn't something you should rely on at all times, not every down will be an exposed down. You're still playing an M1 killer and as such try perks that work with one.
I find things like Agitation + Mad Grit or Starstruck are great for getting bully squads to disperse (or punished for trying) giving you the ability to make a comeback. Either with or inspite of your power.
Info perks are also great to avoid premature reveals. Lethal Pursuer will often give you an instant first down, while I'm All Ears and/or Nowhere to Hide can clue you into survivors trying to reveal you.
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I don't tunnel as a matter of principle, and tend to run things like Make Your Choice to capitalise on that.
But if someone bodyblocks off the hook with endurance, I am punishing that behaviour.
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12. Maps are by and large fairly well balanced. Even Garden of Joy, other than some questionable hitboxes on bushes, is more or less identical to Thompson house in layout. The only real outliers are Gideon's pallets and Midwich's hook placements. Any killer can just as easily win or lose on any map, other factors have more weight than the map itself. Only Eyrie has a significant difference in kill rates, which is why it's getting reworked.
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1 and 3 look good.
2 could potentially be abused by survivors though, and actually works against the "anti-tunnel" idea. If the unhooker has an extra health state, that makes the unhooked survivor the prime target.
Survivor anti-camp/tunnel perks have their place, but they're tricky to get right, in a way that can't be abused outside of overt camp/tunnel situations.
Killers perks are actually a better option. Old BBQ was one of the best anti-camp perks the game has ever had. Make Your Choice is also great, it literally doesn't work if you camp or tunnel. These sort of perks need to be effective enough to become meta, then they'll be the best anti-camp/tunnel perks in the game.
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It does need a buff.
It should trigger up to twice per game, once for each potential hook state rescue. This way it's actually a deterrent to tunnelling, because if a killer gets hit once, they know to expect it a second time.
It should also go back to 5 seconds, or at least 4 seconds, considering at least 1 second of the stun is spent in animation for the survivor.
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The hitbox isn't that small, it's just easy to slide over it if you mistime your attack. Lunges are actually easier to aim than walking right up to it and using a basic attack. And as stated already, you only have to hit the front of the locker, not the lock precisely. You'll get used to it.
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It's still far, far better than the old adept.
Currently, not only do you have to get a 4K, but you have to get 12 hooks, and you have to make sure you get plenty of hits, and the survivors don't heal to much, and you use your power correctly/incorrectly depending on the killer, because some killer powers work against your rating...
Now all you have to do is get a 4K. Sometimes that doesn't even require slugging, sometimes the 4th survivor is just there.
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Boons should be one use per totem, so that when snuffed out, the totem is destroyed. This makes totems finite resources like they used to be. This puts CoH back on a level closer to Inner Healing, and it makes Boons vs Hexes completely fair, because a blessing would be equal to a cleanse. Each take 14s, each consume the totem, each remove the Hex.
However, in order to get value out of them before they get snuffed, killers should get less info about them. No global thunder sound notification when blessed, the killer must discover they're in play themselves. Then reduce the 'lullaby' radius by 50% for all perks except Circle of Healing. This means all boons other than CoH will work better 'in the action' while CoH can be found even when it's 'out of the way'.
This might also require certain Boons to be buffed slightly. For example, Dark Theory could be buffed to something like 4% increase to movement speed, while Exponential could increase recovery speed by an additional 25% or something.
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@luvcraft said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313802#Comment_3313802
Take yourself out of the mindset of a "good" player for a moment, and put yourself in the mindset of a "noob" player: you have a tome challenge to blind the killer, but you don't have the hang of flashlights yet, so you keep getting the timing wrong again and again, but you're slowly getting better. You think you can pull it off next match, but you're out of flashlights, and there are no flashlights in your current bloodweb. Or the next one. Remember, you don't control how often flashlights show up in the bloodweb; the RNG does, and right now it's rolling against you. How does that feel?
I don't have to, I've been there. Both when I was new, and every time I get a daily for a character I haven't levelled yet. Just today I had to open the exits as Yoichi, and had to invest BP into him in order to get him a brown medkit. It took two and a half bloodwebs, that's by level 3, which is about 20,000 BP in total? Which is nothing.
You skip the challenges you can't do and come back to them when you can. I still don't use flashlights, if I have a 'blind the killer challenge' then I'll use Blastmine or Flashbang. Currently there are endless festive party crackers in the bloodweb, use those.
If you don't have 20,000 BP, or even 50,000 BP to dump into the bloodweb to try and get what you need, then you're in no position to be trying for 'blind the killer' challenges in the first place. Get the basics down first.
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Remove self unhooks outside of Deliverance, and rework relevant perks if needed.
I've yet to see a suggested alternative to this that I'd be happy with and didn't remove some aspect of the game.
Slippery Meat exists and if anything, we need more things to synergise with this, more ways to 'acquire luck'. Being able to 'kobe' shouldn't be taken away, and being able to 'kobe' without consequence isn't viable either.
Oh and make the DC timer only decay when you play matches without DCing.
Eh... sometimes turning the game off and doing something else for a few days is a good way for people to chill out, calm down and get over any burn out that caused them to DC. Maybe playing games without DCing should expedite the penalty decay, but not be the only way for it to decay.
Otherwise, I agree with showing perks, so that other survivors can work around each others perks instead of against them, but in the lobby? Jury is still out on that one. At the very least, from the info screen after the match has started.
As for anything else, basekit Kindred would be too much, because auras are more precise information than SWF has access to. So basekit Kindred would be a significant buff to SWF as well. However something similar, but that worked like 'killer instinct' a vague direction instead of a definite aura. That could work.
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They don't want you to be able to max out a new character the day they release. Before it was bloodweb 45 on 2 characters, with a cap of 1mil. Now that 'maxed out' is technically Prestige 3, the cap is 2mil.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314533#Comment_3314533
I’d disagree that SWF without comms is that much worse. I used to be strongly convinced that it was comms that made them strong but I’ve really turned away from this idea. As much as I’m not interested in it being added it’s getting to the point of just add comms then instead of all this other fluff.
It doesn't change the fact that this only buffs 'SWF without comms' up to the level of 'SWF with comms'. Which is the whole point.
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@ShaidarHaran_ said:
Well Seraphor, like I said I'm very new. Less than 50 hours. I don't know if I've experienced the improved controller handling against boil over yet, but I hope not. The reason I say that is because I had a game a little while ago where a Rebecca survivor was completely unhookable with that perk. I downed her 5+ times and some of those times I never made it a single step closer to any hook because all my effort went towards stopping myself from swaying into a corner. Possibly my fault for not yet knowing the counter play on console? I'll keep at it, but it still would be nice to be able to keybind strafing to one of the buttons that don't even get used on a controller otherwise.
Thanks
Sorry for not clarifying, but no, the changes haven't come into effect yet.
They come into effect with the new wiggle mechanics that come out in a couple weeks.
What I'm trying to say is there's no need worrying about what the new changes are going to do, because they've already made steps to help console players in that regard.
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Are you saying you want to 'stretch' the screen to fit like this?
Which is ugly as sin.
Or are you saying you want the black bars 'filled in' with more viewing screen, which would give you an advantaged like this?
Thanks for the template @Batusalen
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360616/the-new-survivor-hud-and-icons
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314470#Comment_3314470
Yeah... i mean... balancing towards swf is fine i guess. Making soloq as powerfull as swf is good in terms of balance. All info that swf has should be available to soloq, so gen/gate progress also, because swf has it. Basekit kindred also would be great and will not buff swf at the same time.
Tho... i would rather keep uncertainty of the game rather than turning it into e-sport. I mean dbd is great as horror game, but more info we have - the less scary this game is. Game should be made and balanced over soloq and LACK of information, and swf should never be a thing. I would love to see swfs removed from the game, maybe let them play on some additional non-supported mode with bot killer...
For me, game should have two modes:
- soloq - the default mode. All balance should be made around it.
- Sun/group/swf mode - here friends can group up and play however they want.
And since game would be balanced over soloq, this means killer would be much weaker towards swf so that less killers will be choosing this mode, and thus lot of players would play soloq mode. I would love to see 1-3 months of testing this. I would love to see dbd staying in place of horror game, and even if it is not scary due to killer on its own it has some theme, climatic music, environment, and the whole uncertainty that makes it better than other asymetric games. If we will still making this game a competetive, moving it towards e-sport then it will be the same thing as VHS.
"Basekit kindred also would be great and will not buff swf at the same time."
Auras are certainly more precise information than is possible to communicate in a couple of seconds, this would be a buff to SWF.
An alternative however could be something like 'killer instinct' for survivors. This gives you a rough direction the other survivors are in, and in order to triangulate their exact position you would need to move around a lot.
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@[Deleted User] said:
As someone who rarely plays SWF I totally understand why there should be some changes to close the gap between the two but unless they take the plunge an add comms I don’t think every buff to solo should be based on people who plays on comms. You have to remember a lot of SWF play without comms. Nope, I don’t think gen or gate progression should be displayed. Looking at the exit switch and looking at and hearing a gen you can get a reasonable idea anyway.
Personally I think comms ruin this game but I know there’s not much BHVR can do about that.
And SWF who play without comms are also worse than SWF who play with comms...
SWF who play with comms are the benchmark at which balance has to be aimed at. In order to level the playing field, all other demographics, including solo survivors and SWF who don't use comms, need to be brought up to that level, or as close as is reasonably possible.
Then survivor can finally be balanced as a whole, and that balance will actually mean something.
Let's use some abstract numbers to estimate the 'skill level' of certain lobby set ups.
Solo = 50%
SWF no comms = 75%
SWF with comms = 90%
It's currently impossible to balance killer because if you balance them in a way that they can stand level at 75%, then they're too powerful for solo, and not powerful enough for SWF. If you balance them at 50%, then SWF absolutely wipe the floor with them. This is where the game is at now with killers stuck floating between this massive gap, and where it has been for the last few years since players started to refine the systems, and is the root cause of nearly all of the game's imbalance issues.
If you give both Solo and 'SWF without comms' a buff and end up with a playfield that looks more like:
Solo = 80% (30% buff)
SWF no comms = 85% (10% buff)
SWF with comms = 90%
Now you have a much narrower range to balance. You can safely balance killer at 85%, knowing that all 'skill levels' fall within a 10% range.
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You think Flashlights should be on demand Exhaustion perks with no cooldown?
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@SmolBlob said:
There’s a lot of perks with weird limitations. Jolt and several other perks are still M1-only for some reason.
That's typically to give M1 killers an edge that those with effective powers don't need.
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Following a period in BETA, the updated Wiggle system is now standard for all players. Rather than mashing the left and right inputs to Wiggle, it now follows a ping-pong Skill Check system.
Based on the feedback we’ve received from players – thank you very much – we have made a few adjustments to the system.
- Controller input handling has been improved, which should allow Killers to respond to Wiggling more efficiently while carrying Survivors.
- Survivors no longer shorten carry time by hitting Great Skill Checks. Instead, Great Skill Checks will increase resistance for the Killer.
- The size of the Great Skill Check zone has been slightly increased. We’ve also updated the Wiggling sound effects for improved feedback.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314091#Comment_3314091
.........As I just said better items are not necessarily items of a higher rarity. Making it often detrimental to prestige and be forced into bloodwebs with higher rarity items. It feels like you didn't even read my post.
I'm not sure who "TC" is. Typo of OP? In any case they made their intent clear: keep the current system and make the prestige optional. Not once did they mention "better items", whatever that means.
TC = Topic Creator
There's literally no problem with the current prestige system, unless you want rarer items.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313807#Comment_3313807
Higher rarity items are not necessarily better items. I'd rather have mural sketches than iri pins on legion for example.
That's exactly what TC is asking for, better items.
They aren't capable of getting those better items at the lower levels they're forced to go through, therefore its higher rarity items they want.
If your best add ons are brown, then you have nothing to complain about.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313807#Comment_3313807
You mean... like it works right now?
General Reward:
Increasing one's Prestige Level also increases the chances for rarer Nodes to spawn in the smaller low-level Bloodwebs.
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Levels_%26_Prestige#Prestige_Rewards
No it doesn't. The current increases are in the realm of 0.1% increase. You won't see a significant difference until about prestige 70-80.
A significant difference would be that after prestige 3, levels 1-10 have say a 50% chance of getting a very/ultra rare per level, prestige 6 ups that to 75%, and prestige 9 makes it guaranteed one very/ultra rare per bloodweb indefinitely.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313854#Comment_3313854
The issue is that the reward for not tunneling would have to be MASSIVE in order to stop people from tunneling. Killing someone off ASAP is so so so strong that I don't think there's an incentive that could convince me not to try.
I think a better thing to try is to make 3v1's less Killer favored and make 4v1's less Survivor-favored.
Then why don't all killers tunnel every game?
Tunnelling isn't actually fun for the killer. I don't tunnel unless I'm forced to by survivors offering themselves up to me. I prefer to run perks like Make Your Choice and Gift of Pain, and info perks like BBQ and Thrilling to give me another objective besides the hooked survivor. Those perks are enough to stop me tunnelling. Any perk that gives me a benefit for not eliminating a survivor prematurely would get me to not tunnel at all. Any basekit effect that does the same would also convince me not to tunnel. I don't think I'm an outlier here, most killers want to have fun playing the game, not simply win at any cost.
"I think a better thing to try is to make 3v1's less Killer favored and make 4v1's less Survivor-favored."
Is that not exactly the same thing as rewarding killers for not tunnelling?
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313795#Comment_3313795
And you advocate for realism vs fantasy…but only when it serves your argument.
Pick one.
It either looks as odd/silly/stupid as other things within the game or you are just cherry picking for your own sake.
Why would I drop a pallet when I can fight back? That’s part of being in survival mode. Now continue to deflect the question by telling me about how the entity took away all knives and shot guns out of of the game while also explaining the how it’s not logical to take a hit for someone in a GAME.
Bodyblocking to take a hit is one thing. You dive in at the last minute to intercept the hit, or you position yourself in front during a chase. But standing still to occupy the only spot the killer can further their objective, making it impossible to do so, it's just cheesy as hell.
I'm not saying survivors shouldn't be able to bodyblock to take hits for team mates, I'm saying it shouldn't be a 100% flawless tactic as it is in that situation.
That's why I suggested partial Mad Grit as basekit. Something like, when within 4m of a hook, successfully hitting an attack pauses the wiggle tier by say... 60-80% of the duration of the attack cooldown. This still means that body block made a difference, and if the survivor only had 1 or 2 seconds of wiggle left it would work, but it's not a foolproof tactic that would always save the hook.
Alternatively, allow the killer to push survivors out of the way. Not incredibly easily, something like moving them at 0.3m/s, so that if they are blocking the hook, it will take the killer about 1-2 seconds to force them out of the way. You're then buying your team mate 1-2 seconds to wiggle free.
You're making a difference, without completely cockblocking the killer by literally doing nothing.
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@GensByDaylight said:
Self Care, it is completely useless since COH exsists, except for some meme builds. I believe the amount of skillchecks should be doubled, as well as progession from them, this will allow survivors who hit great skillchecks to get some usr out it.
No mither, I dont even need to explain it.
Boon: Dark Theory, the 2% haste is laughable in most situations. I believe it should be buffed to 4%, and have a larger radius.
Dark Devotion, the duration is so short, it should be buffed to a minute at least.
Dark Theory is a weird one. Firstly you can't really change the radius on a Boon perk because they can share totems, having different radii on the same totem would get confusing.
But mostly, 4% speed boost puts you at the same speed as the killer, and with the killers larger hitbox making loops wider than they are for survivors, that would mean the killer literally can't catch up with you. They would have no choice but to find and snuff the boon. That would make Dark Theory basically on the same level as an Exhaustion perk, without the Exhaustion.
Every other speed boost on that level is either an Exhaustion perk, or a single use time-limited boost such as Hope or BT. As long as Boons are infinitely re-ignitable (which is their biggest problem) this can't happen.
Now if as I've suggested countless times, Boons should be one use per totem, and being snuffed should destroy the totem, it could open up the avenue to buffs like this.
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A better solution would be to make lower level bloodwebs more likely to hold higher rarity items after a certain number of prestiges. Say after prestiges 3, 6 and 9, you get increasingly more valuable bloodwebs.
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Common items are common enough. I have probably 5 times as many brown medkits/toolboxes than I'll ever need. They cost 2,000 BP and you make ten times that in an average game, or more.
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Survivors don't need items to play well, and they can always find another one from a chest.
You lose an item if you die anyway...
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313372#Comment_3313372
Why aren't you on VC?
That's not meant to be sarcastic - I'm just saying that solo is both an option and by far the worst way to play survivor. This game can't be balanced around solo queue, and I'm going to be annoyed if another perk gets nerfed for the sake of solos, as that tends to make it completely useless when facing an SWF.
Btw...
"and I'm going to be annoyed if another perk gets nerfed for the sake of solos,"
Why would it annoy you if Eruption was changed from Incapacitated to Blocking the gen? It's barely a nerf, and it will completely solve the massive skill divide between solo and SWF, while making it much less frustrating for survivors.
As far as the 'nerf' aspect goes, it's swings and roundabouts. Survivors can go away and do something else, but it means no one can just come along and jump straight back on that gen after Eruption has triggered.
Just like how Boons should never have been re-ignitable from the get go, Incapacitated should never have been an effect tied to a perk to begin with.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313372#Comment_3313372
Why aren't you on VC?
That's not meant to be sarcastic - I'm just saying that solo is both an option and by far the worst way to play survivor. This game can't be balanced around solo queue, and I'm going to be annoyed if another perk gets nerfed for the sake of solos, as that tends to make it completely useless when facing an SWF.
VC isn't always an option. We're not all comp players who join tournament discord groups. Most people play with their friends.
I have three friends who play dbd, and two of them haven't played in weeks.
Btw, Eruption is already useless against SWF.
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Yet another suggestion from the anti-fun brigade.
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@drsoontm said:
Maybe learning not to 3-gen oneself should come first.
I had a game against Knight on RPD.
We got the best possible survivor 3 gen. We had the gen in the upstairs lobby by the library, the gen in the front courtyard, and the gen at the back at the top of the stairs by the rear exit. Furthest gens possible.
Without even using his power (simply M1ing), this Knight with the full meta build of Eruption, CoB, Overcharge and Nowhere to Hide, made it impossible to complete these gens. He would kick each gen on patrol, inevitably catch someone out with Nowhere to Hide or simply between gens, down them proccing Eruption and forcing the remaining survivors (who are rushing gens at this point) to stand still doing nothing for 25s, hook them and repeat. Between unhooking and healing, we got maybe 20 seconds worth of repairs for 40s+ of relative regression.
The only way we could have resolved this situation would have been with voice comms calling out as we're about to drop. But we were solo's.
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@Mockingjay_S451 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312472#Comment_3312472
Dude, are you even real? This has to be a joke, right? If killers are allowed to say that camping and tunnelling are legitimate strategies, then no way can they also say that taking a PROTECTION HIT (something you are awarded for in game) needs to be nerfed by giving Mad Grit as basekit to killers.
The hypocrisy in this player base is baffling.
Where did I say camping and tunnelling were ok?
Stop with this infantile tit for tat, multiple things can be wrong at the same time.
This is not a protection hit, it's an absurd abuse of mechanics that only SWF are likely to get any value out of. It's a bully squad. They are literally standing still in front of a hook while the killer flails about unable to do anything about it, it's a lose-lose scenario for the killer. The killer has successfully won a series of chases, likely burning through a Dead hard to get there, and all that effort was for nothing because a few survivors stood still.
The killer equivalent would be a survivor completing 99% of a gen, and a killer approaches, stands still next to the generator, and the survivor is unable to repair the last 1% because of the mere presence of the killer. There isn't even a choice to be had, the survivor isn't choosing to not complete the last 1% in exchange for a health state, they simply can't.
Bullshit like this is why so many bad killers resort to camp and tunnel.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312977#Comment_3312977
Uh...so wait.
Killer applies Eruption and let's say CoB and Overcharge.
You work on the gen, it gets Erupted. You're incapacitated...but how are CoB and Overcharge still active on that gen?
Are you sure you're not playing against a hacker in this case, because I think that's impossible.
Also - hasn't Overcharge been bugged since forever, and that 5% does not actually apply? AFAIK they've never managed/bothered to fix it, but I could be mistaken.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312963#Comment_3312963
This sort of comparison is always apples and oranges. But there are indeed situations where a killer can be essentially useless for lengths of time, especially - for example - someone keeps putting a megaboon in certain spots where it covers huge swathes of the map and is a huge time commitment to snuff. It's not a perfect comparison, sure.
But okay:
- The perk isn't useless against SWF, it's actually decent. There's play and counterplay. The issue is that any nerfs to this perk for the sake of solo queue would be essentially buffing SWF, or at least further reducing the number of viable killer perks against SWF. And that's not good either.
- Survivors can choose to play in a SWF or play solo. Killers cannot choose whether they face SWFs or not - so it does feel more than a little unfair to constantly gut killer perks for the sake of solo.
- Under perfect conditions, where every Eruption is hitting all 3 other survivors? Sure...but in reality I don't think I've ever seen that happen. Even in solos, what'll more commonly happen is someone else rotates onto the gen after it hits.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312952#Comment_3312952
A lot of this comes down to how BHVR treats killer perks as opposed to survivor perks.
I mean, about the only perk that I can think of offhand that is still even useable after a nerf is PR. Thana? Completely junked. Overcharge? Pretty much junked, Overcharge on it's own is generally worse than an empty slot. Ruin? Almost useless.
On the other hand, Dead Hard saw 70-80% usage rates at the higher MMRs (Eruption is hovering around 20%) and that was allowed to remain as is for years - and even nerfed, it's still incredibly good. The only time a survivor perk gets the 'to the ground' treatment is when that perk is literally impossible to balance and just breaks the game (see: Boil Over).
If BHVR were a little more even handed with how they handle overperforming killer perks versus survivor perks, I think killers would be less resistant to changes. But as things stand, what will almost certainly happen is Eruption being nerfed to uselessness, and the QQ train shifting over to whatever becomes the meta next (probably PR+DMS). And once that gets nerfed...CoB? STBFL?
"The perk isn't useless against SWF, it's actually decent. There's play and counterplay. The issue is that any nerfs to this perk for the sake of solo queue would be essentially buffing SWF, or at least further reducing the number of viable killer perks against SWF. And that's not good either."
Simply changing Incapacitated to blocking the gen would level the playing field between SWF and solo, without being a nerf.
If that's not good enough, I posted a suggestion earlier in this very topic that would actually be a buff to Eruption, but would affect SWF more than soloq.
"Survivors can choose to play in a SWF or play solo. Killers cannot choose whether they face SWFs or not - so it does feel more than a little unfair to constantly gut killer perks for the sake of solo."
Someone who obviously doesn't play survivor. I cant choose when my friends, who rarely play these days, decide to come online. I'm also not going out of my way to hunt down comp teams and apply for a slot on their SWF. I can't just jump into discord with randoms I meet. So no, SWF isn't an option for me. If I want to play survivor, it has to be solo.
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@Veinslay said:
Putting aside whether the perk needs to be nerfed or not, I'm not a fan of the argument that it needs to be nerfed because of the incapacitated status effect. I don't care if not being able to do anything except unhook and run is "boring" or "unfun" for the survivor. Killer gameplay involves getting stunned constantly over and over during a trial. Victor eats a DS every time he gets a down, it takes forever to ADS as Deathslinger, Pyramid Head's power is intentionally made clunky and slow as hell, Blast Mine stun lasts forever, Wraith gets stunned for an eternity getting hit by a pallet when cloaked or getting lightburned, Trickster takes 8,000 years to put his knives away and kick a pallet and the survivor is halfway across the map as a result. Finally, add up all the time the killer has to spend doing nothing while they wait out stupid ass Dead Hard
Twenty Five Seconds.
Even if you assume a 1-4 time conversion for killer (which is only situationally true) nothing incapacitates a killer for 7 whole seconds. Every hyperbolic example you gave is less than 5 seconds, some of them as little as 2 seconds.
Ultimately the main issues are:
- It always triggers against soloq and rarely triggers against SWF. This makes is unfairly disproportionate against a certain class of survivor, and in a way that killers should have a problem with. Why would you want your best perks to be ineffective against SWF??
- It inflicts 40 seconds of equivalent regression, on a 30 second cooldown. Which means when used efficiently, it makes it impossible for survivors to gain any ground against it.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312547#Comment_3312547
Buts it's a legit strat to Tunnel and camp a survivor....just like that 3 man body blocking so sorry you can't have your cake and eat it too....just because you don't like I'd dosnt make it any less a strat to use....
I don't tunnel or camp as killer, it's a boring play style, as is this kind of body blocking which I never do either. Nevermind the fact that you try doing this in soloq and you WILL die for it. Which might make it a pretty good equalising factor between soloq and SWF if they did make partial Mad Grit (pausing the timer, not reduced attack cooldown) basekit within 4m of a hook...
Couple it with an anti-camping mechanic for balance to keep survivors happy.
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@OrangeBear said:
Prove Thyself. If you find four people on a gen and then chase 1 person off it, the other 3 people can get the gen done in 20 seconds. That's crazy.
It takes 32 seconds for 3 survivors to repair a gen with Prove Thyself, and it takes 42 seconds for survivors to repair a gen without Prove Thyself. That's not a huge difference.
Remember Prove Thyself only negates the inefficiency penalty, it's not a true bonus. It's still more efficient for survivors to split up on gens than to work on them together, even with Prove Thyself. The only time it comes in handy is in a 3 gen scenario.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312626#Comment_3312626
I swear, more teams are starting to realize that Hyperfocus + Fogwise is probably the most broken thing that has existed in ages. It's like prenerf OoO, but with zero downsides and you can melt gens on top of it.
And apparently Fogwise is still 'bugged' and showing undetectable killers.
I don't think it is. I used Fogwise recently against a Ghostface, triggered it and saw nothing. I suppose he could have been in a snowman but Shroud seems more likely.
Either way, I'm enjoying my Hyperfocus + Fogwise + Stake Out + Diversion build right now. Only thing I'm missing is Kindred so bring on the new HUD icons.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312567#Comment_3312567
really, all it does is shuffle the situation over to the 2-surv step instead, if they're both healthy at the time.
If Hatch was removed, the Killer could (hopefully) open the damn door to force a timer.
So survivors just need to hide as well as they can until the killer gives up, opens a door, and they get a free escape?
Just remove the win condition for a hatch escape. It's already MMR neutral, remove the BP bonus and any emblem contribution to boot so it's more obvious that it's not a real escape, its a commiseration prize.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312433#Comment_3312433
bro just spam the prompt
You can't tell, but I was.
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I would prefer a rework, which in many ways could be considered a buff:
When you kick the gen, you 'Prime' it with Eruption for 30s.
When you down a survivor you 'Activate' Eruption for a further 30s. This only applies that 10% regression and starts the regression process. No incapacitated.
While Eruption is 'Activated', the next survivor to interact with it, triggers Incapacitated.
Crucially, what this means is that:
- Only one survivors will be incapacitated per activated gen.
- Letting go at the exact moment the survivor is downed and then jumping back on after it's triggered, is no longer a counter.
This doesn't nerf the perk, so much as it prevents it being disproportionately more effective against solo survivors and useless against SWF. SWF who know about it will let go in time, but will then be unable to touch that gen. This means SWF survivors will be forced to run to another gen, and forced to allow that regression to take effect. This could cost them well over 30s of regression, plus travel time to the net gen. Meanwhile solo's who are unaware will get hit, be Incapacitated for 25s (or whatever it could be nerfed down to) and limited to only 25s of regression.
And as I eluded, because this is technically a buff, the actual duration of the Incapacitated status could be reduced to something more sensible like 15s.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312472#Comment_3312472
What's wrong with blocking the hook to save a friend? It's a legit strat.
It's just, mind boggling. You're playing a horror game, and the best strat is to stand perfectly still, directly in front of the killer, knowing that you're completely untouchable because if the killer tries to hit you, they lose the hook and reset the chase. It's goofy as #########.
Can you imagine a Halloween movie, where Laurie stands in a doorway mooning Michael going "nah nah nah you can't get through!"
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Any mechanic that allows survivors to stand within 1m yet be perfectly safe in the knowledge that they're 100% untouchable.
This includes:
Crouching on the killers toes knowing that they're entirely outside of the killers binocular vision.
Multiple survivors bodyblocking a hook knowing that if the killer swings, they lose the hook.
Is this a horror game or not?
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Looking at cases like this, makes me think Mad Grit should be basekit. Who thinks that's good gameplay? Three survivors standing still by a hook to block a hook action...
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@Forza said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312421#Comment_3312421
I guess if we consider the 50% to be an equivalency Botany of Knowledge, along with Self-Care itself an argument could even be made of it being worth 2 killer perk slots but all I need is 1 to prove the point.
An entirely different avenue to take it down is which perks is it closest to?
Inner Healing. This consumes one totem and gives you one heal, while CoH is infinitely re-ignitable and gives multiple survivors the ability to heal. CoH has effectively blown Inner Healing out of use, as it's magnitudes stronger than it. Before Coh came out, Inner Healing (then Inner Strength) was considered a decent healing perk.
That tells you all you need to know about the impact this one single perk has had. Totems used to be a finite resource. Now they're an infinite wellspring.
Boons should have always been single use perks, once snuffed out, that totem should be consumed. Balance them anyway way you need to to make that worth it for survivors, but make it consume the totem. This way it's perfectly fair to Hexes as well, as a cleanse and a bless are treated equally, each take 14s, each remove the Hex, each consume the totem. Done.
There was mention of giving killers the choice to deceide whether or not to snuff it and make survivors rebless it or not, but frankly, no killer has ever chosen that tactic willingly, and ultimately there is no choice! You either have Shattered Hope or you don't, you don't get to choose whether or not you destroy the totem at any given time, and you don't run Shattered Hope of the off chance someone might bring a Boon.
I think the devs simply worked out how to make this neat system that allows for repeated activation of totems, patted themselves on the back for a job well done, and are reluctant to go back on themselves at this point. Sunk cost fallacy and all.
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https://youtu.be/uIZLL9pb2hs?t=435@Moxie said:
My issue is how stupidly PRECISE you need to line up as Killer to even get the "Snuff Totem' prompt.
That alone takes an extra 2 seconds (usually).
Ignore the terrible gameplay, and the outcome of the match (the survivors were goofing off), just how tricky it was to line up the snuff prompt. (approx. 7:10)
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312141#Comment_3312141
It's still a bit of an extreme playtime gap, and when there's multiple, I sometimes just don't want to bother, especially if there's already a bunch of toolboxes and the like out.
But it's not indicative of a certain playtime gap?
I have at least P3 on every character. That's 60+ characters, each at P3 or a bit more, which equals a cumulative 180+ prestige levels, realistically 200+. Instead of P3ing everyone, I could have two P100s. But when you face me, the highest prestige I have on my main currently is 15.
One P100 doesn't mean that player necessarily has any more time than someone at half of my personal playtime. Also, if you P1'd everyone before the prestige changes, then you automatically converted that into P3 on everyone. Someone could have P1'd everyone, with on P3 that was instantly converted to a P9, and then they only have 81 prestige levels to make up to get that one P100.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310213#Comment_3310213
Monkey see pickup. Monkey let go gen. Hook. Monkey go back on gen.
Eruption countered.
Eruption procs on down, not on hook.
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@RainehDaze said:
When I see multiple people with more prestige on one character than I have total (possibly by 3-4x, I don't think I have more than 25 spread out), I'm possibly going to bounce. Maybe they're just really persistent and not that great, or maybe matchmaking's just desperate.
If I actually remember prestige by the time we're in the game, I'd probably be trying to not chase them, though.
I'm not the best killer, but I've killed enough P100s that I don't see it as a threat anymore.
Unless the entire lobby is P50+, which could be a clue that it's a SWF, I'm not bothered. But even that is going to lose it's predictive power as more survivors climb the prestige ladder.