ScottJund
ScottJund
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@SteelDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/836737#Comment_836737
also you say "that is not at all how a game works" yet you provide evidence for your statements by doing KYF, 1v1 games. THOSE SCENERIOS NEVER happen in games either. so why use them as evidence? you contradict yourself
What? What evidence are you talking about?
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/836836#Comment_836836
So what do you expect them to do?
Why don't you go out an buy a PS4/Xbox and DBD to prove them wrong?
Because killer controls are trash on console and I'd do terribly?
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@SteelDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/836737#Comment_836737
what if everyone gets up? unbreakable, god loops, insta down mechanics. etc etc etc. when you slug you run the risk to lose 1 of your 12 hook progress. that is a gamble. with the current balance of the game the survivors are in control of the game, not the killer
You're right, someone might have Unbreakable. You're just showing my point that you can't boil the game down to 80 seconds a gen x < 12 hook time, etc. There are too many variables. Also when you slug you are trading hook progress for slower generator progress. Its not a loss of time.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/834008#Comment_834008
Playing on console is an excuse now?
Sorry if I don't feel like buying another version of the game I probably won't ever play just to prove a point to you that is meaningless anyway since things will change regardless of who proves what to who.
Excuses can be valid too, you know. Its just a reason they won't do it.
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@SteelDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/833976#Comment_833976
because KYF does nothing, proves nothing. there is no pressure from gens, the process of
step 1 find survivor
step 2 down survivor
step 3 pick up survivor
step 4 hook survivor
step 5 REPEAT
you must repeat this 12 times before the survivors do all 5 gens and escape. just say.. a 40 second step 2 chase for the spirit to down a survivor is ALOT OF TIME for a optimal team. because then you add the time to pick up the survivor and hook them then go to gens/look for another survivor. BTW scott, a lot of your "points" about tru3's video that you analyzed was proven false in his reply to your critique. I would like to see your reply and so would alot of other people
That is not at all how a game works. Do you know how rare it is to actually get a full 12 hook game. You can't just boil a game down to that. There are like 8 billion variables. What if I slug everyone? Everyone dies in one hook.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/834049#Comment_834049
So my suggestion that you play your spirit in the next marth tournament is not viable due to reasons right? ?
Again, not only do I have not a single teammate, I don't even know what tournaments he does, or when he does, or where he does them.
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I haven't noticed it but Behavior breaking sound is a staple of the series at this point so I believe you.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/834008#Comment_834008
To be fair, whats there to test for the 4v1 version compared to the 1v1? Especially if its CWF..
The progress the other 3 survivors are able to pump out in generators?
There is nothing to test. Its just an excuse they make. The measurement is time.
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@Mc_Harty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/833976#Comment_833976
I'm just gonna put my tinfoil hat on and say they don't want to proven that Spirit might be a problem.
Their usual argument is either "I'm on console" or "1v1 doesn't mean anything, game is 1v4" even though I'm literally only testing the 1v1 chase aspect of Spirit.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/833954#Comment_833954
How many people have accepted your offer to play against your Spirit?
0
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it genuinely blows my mind the ego of some people that assume people that are vastly better than them at the game STILL haven't figured out how to "adapt to" Spirit.
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Yes these things are definitely related and should be discussed together.
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@anarchy753 said:
I think people want 1v1 too aggressively.
They want a situation where if they are a good survivor player, they should be able to single-handedly keep a killer occupied all game and be a hero.
The biggest issue with that is obvious, you can't balance the game around 4 people who ALL have the ability to waste a whole game's worth of time and expect the killer to still feel like they have a reasonable chance. It's why chases are getting shorter, pallets are getting less safe; in order for the game to work, you HAVE to go down.
In terms of Spirit I don't think she's balanced. It isn't to do with 1v1 or 1v4, she isn't an interactive killer. She gets information, while survivors guess and hope, and 9 times out of 10 getting information wins out. The only legitimate "counters" to her have to be pre-equipped before going into a match which sets a per-killer meta that people just don't want to build towards. While you do have to go down in a chase for balance, Spirit tends to make that "you go down in a chase 1 power use from the time you're injured."
It doesn't really matter if a hyper efficient squad all with toolboxes can scrape a win occasionally, that isn't 'balance,' that's an idealised scenario that just doesn't happen in pubs very often, and even then it isn't a guarantee.
The main argument for people in the 1v1 boat is that if the killer is guaranteed to down someone with 4000 hours and they're guaranteed to down someone with 5 hours, what is the point of trying to get better at the game?
Is there some magical ratio to skill and chase duration? Like, assuming perfect killer and perfect Survivor. Is one minute a sufficient chase for the survivor to have displayed his skill while the killer was able to do the same? Two minutes? Thirty seconds? What killer?
So many variables. Then assume the killer is vastly better than the survivor. How much quicker should they go down. Survivor vastly better than killer? How much longer than a minute should they last?
You HAVE to have a skill coefficient in this ratio somewhere, or the game is skilless which makes people unwilling to invest time into getting better, thus everyone stops playing.
This is why Old Legion was such an abomination and the worst thing they've ever done. Spirit is nowhere near that bad, but it does share a few of the same characteristics of "any newbie with a good headset can do well."
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@MeatBycicle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/828961#Comment_828961
That doesn't even balance SWF at all. All that would do would make it easier for solo survivors to know what everyone is doing. SWF are still stronger overall.
The idea is by making solo players and SWF on a more even playing field, you can buff killers accordingly and have it be far better balanced against any opposition. Instead, we have the whole "Spirit utterly annhiliates solo players but is a good challenge for organized groups."
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@OmegaXII said:
If you only look at 1 vs 1, then every killer is overpowered. The only difference is how long the killer takes to down and kill you. So you should balance around 4 vs 1.
I know it's not fun to get down so quickly. But it is not spirit's fault for wanting to down you that quick, because she is on a time bomb
Also, there are some loops that are also completely overpowered (like windows in some maps that can be abused). Those things are definitely not fun for certain killers because there is nothing you can do. IMO those problems are even worse that the problem spirit has because spirit can still loss, while if every survivors abuse those loops, they are guaranteed to win
As you mentioned, even with spirit, you could lose too. So how about every killers that are weaker than her (which includes every killer except maybe nurse, i'm not sure about her)? In those matches these optimal SWF will dominate every single time because even the best killer cannot keep up with them
So the final problem comes to how quick gens can be done, because this is the problem every killer has. Otherwise ruin would not become almost mandatory in the first place.
You can somehow nerf her chase, but gen needs to be looked at at the same timE
I only mentioned Spirit can still lose to separate her "strength" from the 1v1 chase component she has. Her 1v1 chase component is unlikable and guess-heavy at best for what I would say is a majority of people.
Conversely, someone like Nurse, who can potentially be even stronger than Spirit, doesn't have quite the same problem because there are more things to react to with her. At least when people quickly go down to a Nurse, they can think "Well at least she was good." You don't even really have to be good with Spirit, which puts a bad taste in Survivor's mouths when they get downed by it.
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@MeatBycicle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/828873#Comment_828873
How do you deal with that though? "Hey the killer is going into the house you're in, get out. Hey the killer is chasing me work on gens. I found hex totem in killer shack someone else get it I'm in a chase".
That alone makes it no longer a 1v4 or a 1v1, it's a whole other level of #########.
I think something as simple as notifying the killer how many people are in a group so they can adjust addons / offerings or whatever accordingly would be fair. A lot of the time even a full 4 man SWF is just friends messing around.
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@Xerge said:
I understand what you mean when you say "Individual interactions", you are refering to chases, but there are pallet saves, flashlight saves, bodyblocking, coordinated or not coordinated head ons on swf. The other players can also interact with the killer during those so called "individual interactions". So I don't think you can really balance the game solely on so called "individual interactions" under these circumstances.
Even still, in your examples they're all nearly a thing once a chase with one person has ended. Now a new interaction begins (trying to flashlight save, etc).
Also don't focus too diligently on "individual." its more accurate to say "the personal experience vs the game as a whole"
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Definitely agree. She only needs a slight tweak to give some slim opportunity for counterplay.
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@DepressedClownMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825390#Comment_825390
You are being toxic, he didn't really ask for a reward. Sometimes you do play against terrible killers, sometimes they are afk, sometimes they dc. In all these scenarios, you can loose pips unfairly.
..what? How am I being toxic? I'm asking if he thinks he deserves a reward for what he admitted to be basically doing nothing but hiding. The reward is a pip, which he also discussed.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825377#Comment_825377
I understood. If she has to break the pallet then that’s a ton of distance, especially against a 110 killer. At that point, depending on the map, you could even break LOS and mix her up with your scratchmarks. Or you could just go to another loop spot. Either way, you can effectively waste her time. She does get rid of pallets faster than other killers but a good team will still get the gens done.
You don't get a "ton of distance" as by the time the pallet is broken she's almost back in her power, which is nearly twice as fast as a Survivor running (who is now leaving scratches).
Pallets take 2.7 seconds to break, which is 10.8 meters of gained distance for the Survivor. The Spirit moves over 7 meters a second in her power. She's catching up in literally 3-4 seconds, and that's without addons.
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Do you really think you should be rewarded for doing nothing while your team does all the work and dies?
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825359#Comment_825359
Okay so then she ends her phase early and is then a 110 killer until the power comes back, which varies with addons. You can then create distance and go to another loop. In this scenario, Spirit’s chase time is already approaching that of a standard m1 killer.
You're not getting the example. She ends her phase early right at the pallet. The survivor is at the other side of the pallet. The Survivor either drops the pallet or gets hit. Either way, after breaking the pallet you probably have another 3-4 seconds before your power is back because you stopped it way earlier than the full power. Its pretty unlikely the Survivor is going to beat you to yet another pallet in that short time, and if they do, its the same exact scenario repeated, except you're blowing through all the pallets in the map in seconds, completely ruining your team's chances.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825338#Comment_825338
It goes both ways. She can’t possibly know if you are going to window vault, when you are going to throw down pallets or how you mix up your scratch marks/walking. If you are in the open then yes you will probably be hit, but that is true for every killer.
Vaulting makes sound. She can gauge distance between you and a nearby pallet and determine if she has enough time to beat you to the pallet. If she doesn't, she simply ends her power early, significantly shortening the cool down. Then the survivor throws the pallet down, at which point the Spirit just breaks it and then uses her power again in 5 seconds to catch the survivor in the open.
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@knell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825287#Comment_825287
If Prayer Beads Spirit is winning every game, then ideally, that player should be ranking up until he/she is matched up against similarly strong players (whether they are actually skilled or dependent on add-ons/perks as well.) If that same player stops using Prayer Beads Spirit, then that person should be ranking down until they are matched up against similarly weak players. Same goes for perkless Wraith. These individuals really don't have much to do with how the game should be balanced, given how the game should be balanced to 2 Kill/2 Survivors on average from hundreds/thousands of games at the very top. The exception would be if the strongest Prayer Beads Spirits end up getting much more/less than 2 Kill/2 Escape on average against 4-Man Gen-rushing troops, at which point it would indicate a problem with the balance.
What makes you think the bad player at high ranks is going to stop using strong addons to make up for their lack of skill?
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825317#Comment_825317
The same way she predicts a survivor that she has never faced before. Feel it out, get a sense for how they play.
...you know The Spirit can hear the survivors pain sounds, their breathing sounds, their footsteps, see their scratch marks, see the grass they move, literally collide with them, etc. right? There's no prediction for the Spirit at that point.
Also what does "Feel it out" mean? If I start phase walking and hit you in 5 seconds, what the hell did you feel out? "Oh she went invisible and hit me, I will now base my predictions on this."
Like come on man.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823114#Comment_823114
Guessing isn’t luck. Predict what the Spirit is going to do and outplay her.
And how do you predict somebody who you've had exactly 0 seconds of interactions with at the start of a game?
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@knell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825268#Comment_825268
To me, that sounds like a problem with the ranking system and the matchmaking, not the balance of the game.
How does 'gen rushing' and '3v1' situations (disregarding DCs) make it impossible?
The two are not mutually exclusive. The ranking is so screwed up because the balance of the game is impossible to perfect. You can have a terrible player just use Prayer Beads Spirit and win every game, and you can have the best killer in the world play a perkless Wraith and get stomped.
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@knell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825241#Comment_825241
Just to make sure, by that definition, does that mean that if there ARE competitive tournaments for that particular game at some point somewhere, then it can't be a casual game?
So what does your definition of "fun" has to do with the balance of the game?
If there are officially sanctioned tournaments endorsed by the game's creators, and the only way to enter those tournaments is through proof of skill (Like other major tournaments for other games), then yes, the game becomes competitive because now you have a large pool of proven excellent players going against each other, and you can balance off of that.
Is that a good idea for this game? I don't think so at all.
Games like CS and Dota balance solely off of high-level tournament level play. There isn't any of that for this game, so the only thing to do is to just try to make the game as fun as possible.
Even if there WERE tournaments, this game is so asymmetric they could never, ever get it right.
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Dead by Daylight IS the Casual Mode. You do not want to see what a competitive ranked mode in DBD looks like, I promise you.
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@Venoxxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825178#Comment_825178
The problem I see with this thought process is Fun =/= Casual. Even in Casual games, whether it be DbD or some other game out there, there is a chance you will not have fun. Fun comes in MANY forms. I stopped playing the game Overwatch because most of the people on that game, their idea of fun was nothing but winning. You HAD to win or else they'd hate their team for life. That seems to be how DbD is turning out though, everyone wants to win to have fun. Everyone wants to farm to have fun. Etc.
Even if people don't want that to have fun, that's surely what it seems like sometimes. You can't expect the game to always go your way.
That's fine, then just look to my original paragraph about the game being casual, unrelated to fun.
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@knell said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825178#Comment_825178
Define 'Casual game.'
Define 'Fun' that the game should account for when balancing the game (for 2 Kill, 2 Escape).
Its a game in which there no competitive tournaments, or even a format where a fair tournament could happen. DBD would, at the very least, need a Seed generator for maps in KYF to even begin to be considered competitive.
"Fun" is simply having all players involved having a sense that the actions they are taking are meaningful in some way that positively reflects on themselves. For some people, they only get a positive response if they kill everyone. For others, they have fun if they 360 the killer, even if they die. Its completely different for everyone, but most of it boils down to "This player had a chance to do something they found fulfillment in"
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Mostly boils down to inexperience. When you only play one side your opinions of the game become extremely biased.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821485#Comment_821485
Says he hates people using math to support gens being too fast... proceeds to give a simplified math problem to remove 75% of survivors from gens
If you really can't tell the difference between what I said and what he said I don't know what to tell you.
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Thats an addon she has. It makes her retain her phase movement speed for a short time after stopping her power.
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I think Iridescent Head is extremely overpowered but restricting it to only one even with a belt would make it worse than actually using no addons in my opinion. Would completely kill her snowball potential.
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@akbays35 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823810#Comment_823810
Hey Scott do you think they should look at Huntress? I feel like she's balanced, but requires nurse level mechanics and prediction. I feel like she has such a sharp learning curve that could be ironed out with more drawn out add-ons. I think the last update with her was turning her brick hitboxes into orb hitboxes. They haven't updated or buffed any of her jankey perks so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯?
I think she's fine since the directional audio buff. She is definitely hard to learn, though.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/822306#Comment_822306
Did you notice thatt scott never follows up on anything he says? I suggested to him to play 100 games as spirit vs optimal swf. I also siggested he participate in the next tournament hosted by marth to proof that there is no counterplay yet nothing. Quite strange considering he was so vocal to be challenged.
Yeah let me just summon a team to play 100 consecutive matches and let me just immediately join a tournament I know nothing about. You got me bro! #outed #scandal #areyoufuckingserious
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/822170#Comment_822170
Sure.
Not buyin it sorry.
hey, why don't you join in the next dbd tournament hosted by marth? you will 4k everytime right? show us that there is no counterplay and you are superior to everyone
Don't you need 5 people for those? How am I gonna solo join that.
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@The_Bootie_Gorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/822990#Comment_822990
Agree. God tier Scott going up against average players will not prove anything. He needs to test this against 4 survivors that match his skill level.
The problem is everyone that has gotten to that skill level is knowledgable enough about the game to know that Spirit counters are mostly luck if no perks are involved, so they don't even want to waste time testing it. I can't think of a single notable excellent survivor player that doesn't think Spirit's counterplay is mostly just guessing correctly.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821951#Comment_821951
You kinda prove my point here. No one can 4k 100 games in a row, but if they were going to try Spirit would be the only killer they try it with.
I'm pretty confident I can win infinite games in a row with Spirit as long as I get to use Amulet/Wakazashi. I don't think I've lost with that setup in my entire time playing the game. Its ridiculously overpowered.
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@AkiTheKitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/820898#Comment_820898
I counter her regularly in purple-red ranks but ok
So can you prove it to me so ill shut up?
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Man I really hate when people complain about gen times and use raw math as proof. I agree games can move too fast occasionally and something should be done, but when you give these examples you completely remove all variables that extend the game. Downing a single person drastically slows the entire game down. You now have the guy on the hook not doing a gen, you can chase the guy going for the rescue, and now a third guy has to go save. With one down, you've reduced the amount of people working on gens by 75%. You can't just say "Gens take X long to complete." That isn't how the game works.
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@AkiTheKitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/819201#Comment_819201
You do get the phasing sound, her shards glow slightly, she snaps back into her default position, her hair snaps straight up. I've seen that video and it does not have enought info on the Spirit's counters. Runnning Spine Chill can make it so that she never finds you or that she can't mess with you with that fake phasing. Iron will makes her unable to hear you. Fast vault windows and slow vault them back, scratchmark jukes... the list goes on. Git gud
If its so easy why don't we go into a KYF and you tell me every time I'm using my power? I guarantee you can't do it reliably whatsoever. I've tested this with people that have claimed they can see all of these things before. Sometimes I would literally never use my power, just jerk my mouse slightly to the right or something, and they'd say I used my power. Using the schoolgirl outfit makes all of this pointless and useless.
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@vossler25 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/817903#Comment_817903
Those people that are asking for changes are cause they don't know how to do anything but pallet loop, I've gone Vs spirit many times and everything they have said I found pretty much the opposite, she to be totally honest, she is weak already, just not many people realised how to abuse her own power on her, I always thought she was top level myself, just then I noticed the clear subtle signs of her location in phase walk and abused the hell out of it, and the people I played with thought me a god, all I did instead of pallet loop was use the typical tactic spirit uses of phase then walk around to sit back and forth on a pallet, she gave up eventually then used it to try to chase me, I urban evasion crouched away into cover and she lost me, I make noise to try and lure and repeat these steps until they decide to just walk normal and force it into standard pallet loop, all 5 done, not even an injured state up to the exit I was too cocky and got hit but was at exit so didn't matter, spirit really isn't that strong, nerfing her with completely kill her, she is great for a checky grab if you don't get someone to distract her, that's when spirit makes the game changer, the hooks is all she can about be strong in, unless someone has borrowed time, the issue isn't a case of nerfing, it's a case of people needing to not rely to typical tactics until you force her no other way to have a chance, the people dying to her are just incapable of adapting
Riveting story!
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@thesuicidefox said:
"But most important is that when she's using her power, you can't actually tell if she's using it or not. That's the big problem with Spirit."
See this is what upsets me about every argument against the Spirit right now.
THIS IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF HER POWER. She is meant to be confusing. You are not meant to know exactly when she is phase walking. It's what makes her as good as she is. Literally every proposed "fix" for her involves basically adding a neon sign above her head that says "I AM PHASE WALKING" which is such a huge nerf to her power I can't even put it into words.
Better solutions:
1) Remove the ability to grab during post phase walk when using Prayer Beads. She no longer gets easy grabs and instead has to go for an attack. She still can get a potential free hit but it leads to a chase, not a guaranteed hook.
2) Increase the sound of her footsteps within 6m but outside of the husk's TR. This gives the survivor some indication where she is and that they should start juking to avoid the hit.
3) Add a slight echo to audio she hears during phase walk. This increases the amount of skill needed to track during phase walk and means that she has to make predictions more often than reactions.
These would address most of the issues people seem to have with her without gutting her core design.
idk man Spirits power is broken right now and makes the sound even inside the Terror Radius. Its not helping people get away. I still move twice as fast as them and they still have absolutely no idea where I am. The only thing it would help would be the standing still "mindgame."
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/815756#Comment_815756
No it's not luck. Stop saying it's luck. If you see a pattern in behavior and can predict with good accuracy what the other player will do, that is NOT luck. Luck is when something happens to benefit you that you did not plan for. If I'm walking around and Ghostface just go strolling by in Night Shroud, just happens to be facing away from me and didn't see me, THAT is luck. Predicting what another player will do with high accuracy is the opposite of luck.
The sooner you stop thinking about countering Spirit in terms of "guessing" and "luck" the sooner you will learn howto actually counter her.
See here is the problem I have with the fighting game analogy. You say even with 50/50s you can predict your opponent eventually and make a decision based off of that.
First of all, its not a 50/50. The Spirit has way more information than you. She moves almost twice your speed while phasing so even if she commits to a wrong direction and then hears you somewhere else she can still rectify it and go back.
Even then, lets assume it is a 50/50. You said you analyze the player and make predictions, not guesses, off of that. This works in fighting games because you have 3 rounds of multiple hits to figure out your opponent.
This is not at all the case in DBD. To compare it back to your fighting game example, it would be like if every move every opponent did was a 50/50 and instead of it taking 20 hits to K.O an opponent, it takes two hits. Not even the greatest FGC players alive can analyze and find a pattern in an opponent in two hits. Its impossible. You're just guessing. You tell yourself you mindgamed them when you guess right, and say you misplayed when you guess wrong. That's it. You can't tell who the killer player is before hand, you can't study what she's doing with her power until she's basically already downed you with it, and even then, you have basically no sample size and its not even close to enough repetition to find a pattern you can exploit in your opponent.
Even staunch Spirit supporters like tru3 say they "guessed wrong" when they are downed by her.
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@MasterUff said:
I like to to say everytime omething bad if someone says positive thing about ghostface is viable, without any proof. Meanwhile tru3talent got 15 wins in a row with ghostface without stalking in red ranks in a stream live. How can you cherry picking live?
I got 33 wins in a row with speed limiter Leatherface live. He still sucks.
That being said Ghostface is way way better than Leatherface, but random games never prove anything.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/811676#Comment_811676
Yea... a standard part of any pvp game. Survivors should just be able to enforce safe loops with no guess? Doesn’t seem fun or skillful to me.
You can't destroy Spirits power. You can kick a safe pallet. Huge difference
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@OswinOsgood said:
I was just thinking, is stealth/playing immersed, a good counter to spirit?
Because i realised something, no one wants to sit on a gen and hold m1/r2 etc on a gen, most want to be chased right? Usually when they do there are *click click* flashlight "look at me" being shoved in your face haha. But if winning against spirit means avoiding chases, playing stealthy, then maybe thats another reason people are so mad about her being un fun to play against? Because they dont want to try an hide they want to play looping simulator
I mean...avoiding the killer is the counter to every killer, so that's not really fair.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/811633#Comment_811633
You predict them. The standard guessing game against spirit is what side of the pallet you are on. While she is shifting, run to a pallet, put it down, and then wait for a bit. Already, a good chunk of spirits are going to be hit by that pallet because they expect you to wait until you see her (bad idea for the survivor to do). Once that’s established, she will then guess what side you will put it down on. From there you can choose what side or try to sneak away from the loop
So...guess.