Sava18
Sava18
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- Sava18
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You bring back the broken stuff at this point and people will leave in a couple games.
People by nature like fairness. In the past it was swf vs the top few killers and that's it, if you were so unlucky to face the other side without being able to reciprocate you lost instantly. Due to how bad mmr is that problem exists to an extent but back then you could lose on game startup often.
Personally I think they should address killer balance first on good killers and then souly buff m1 stats and then change survivor as needed.
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This game doesn't have a mmr/community or a ranking system to make me enjoy the game. Striving for a higher potential only results in boredom, If anything I peaked on killer a year ago. I've come to realize that forcing many handicaps on myself only hurts my fun, but at this point providing no handicaps would result in me not playing at all. This game just doesn't suit me right now, at least when I was a young dbd player I had motivation to try hard and could despise survivors for their busted, bot-like, auto carry builds I could try hard, but 6.1.0 happened and players didn't get better while also losing a large portion of power.
Now I have to hard handi cap myself in many ways, something I would never do in any pvp game ever.
10 killer games a month, 30 survivor games.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632267#Comment_3632267
In terms of categorizing me and calling me out, I wasn't referring to you friend or @MikaelaWantsYourBoon but to Ayodam. But I hope that this topic is off the table now. It has no place here. I always want to discuss things respectfully and therefore I enjoy interacting with you and @MikaelaWantsYourBoon very much.
I'm fine with ds being 5 seconds. I just don't think that this will solve the problem effectively. Bbq old bloodpoint bonus could be made a basekit mechanic. The more different people the killer hooks before someone is dead, the more BP they shall receive. Sounds like a good incentive to me.
With your last point I absolutely agree!
Ds is not the answer to tunneling, in fact it'll be just like with kicking gens where killers realized it was good to do so after eruption ended and then took it to a negative extreme.
I am biased because I could not care less about bp if I tried but it's not a real incentive.
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Great response as always man!
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@Zraith said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631418#Comment_3631418
I think a single instance when someone was giving up on your losing game is just not a strong enough argument to dismiss this issue.
Did you just say single issue after xertnon listed like 20 different reasons? Unsurprised.
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@GeneralV said:
4% isn't a problem, it is an important aspect of the game that should remain untouched. What we need to understand is why people are giving up and adjust things accordingly.
Ok man, I like you but what is important about the 4% at all? 95% of the it's not used to kobe but to leave. 4% is a really small chance and any real player is either out of option(i've been there but it doesn't mean it's necessary) or leaving the game.
You can remove the 4% at no cost to anyone's mental health and still work on the issues that are so called causing it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632055#Comment_3632055
i think nurse's blink is based off m/s. i wonder if it would affect her blink speed like the reverse old bad man's last breath. I don't kick any pallets as nurse so I never tried to blink with chemical trap debuff. The result would be very slow blink if it works. 50% hindered for 10 second for DS is a no joke.
I couldn't confirm you idea either. I'm sure there's some nurse main who would know though.
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Nope, I'm a veteran. A highly ranked one in all the games I play at that. If you remove all the options to troll people will play, 12k+ hours of experience vs your whatever statement. Do you afk and get suspended? Do you troll and get suspended? Do you be toxic in chat and be suspended? Do you leave literally twice in 3 months in be suspended? League has no place for you. Literally a top 5 biggest online multiplayer game at least and by far the biggest e sports scene. It's what happens when people actually know what they could potentially get into before they hit the play button.
You have likely never played a real pvp comp game in your life, dbd doesn't count. The playerbase is nothing to brag about even at the highest levels.
After reading the rest of your replies I know you have truly never been adept and you are just spouting due to dbd corruption.
I will reiterate, I am right that they should remove the ability to leave the game for free but that doesn't mean they shouldn't address major issues such a tunneling killing the fun of 90% of survivors.
Try again buddy.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632028#Comment_3632028
i think he's talking about chemical trap hindered penalty like 50% for 10 seconds. So even if you high mobility killer, your m/s will be slower than survivor. DS is wrong perk to buff if the goal was to deter tunneling.
The perk i would recommend buffing is Made For This. Instead of 3% haste for when your in deep wound, make it like 10% haste. Watch as killer become terrified to hit borrow time and off the record to trigger this deadly buff.
So blight would still be moving at 115 at least and nurse would flat out ignore it.
In your scenario I still ignore it if I ever tunneled as blight. I stand by the idea that tunneling is unhealthy but not op until A tier killers are involved. They need to make the consequence so absurd even a current alch ring blight on a top 1% level couldn't viably tunnel you out, then buff m1 aspects/killers to compensate.
I only commented on what I would do to ds because of the nature of this thread, I'd prefer it base kit. Although I've always hated the idea of limiting what killers do to a linear path, I already do so myself so it makes no difference to me at this point.
Every killer is the same. Get to tile < kick gen first even if a free hit is available< then chase but probably drop to go back to hook. Eruption rotted killers brains.
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@glitchboi said:
5 seconds and allow it to work in the endgame.
I don't understand the concept of pity kills and why they are so necessary, 4 escapes and 4 kills will inevitably happen between games. A perk shouldn't be an unused slot simply because the survivors did their objective.
It's not pity kills. Even if what you said came to fruition, the good killers could still work around it while all the bad ones would just be left without options. Stop making it seem like a hook in end game is free, any person who knows a little about how endgame works even in solo queue can make a 4 man escape work unless the hook is too absurd.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632025#Comment_3632025
It would be completely justified, of course. I cannot understand why anyone would go out of their way to abuse an exploit / oversight and make the game miserable.
I have had friends in the past who enjoy making other people upset to an absurd degree. When boil over was peak and I slugged people to death just like I said when I was a dirty full meta blight player, they would often type in end game why I take the game so seriously.
Like ok, you want me to down you, eat your perks and lose. I'll pass personally. The other survivors endorsing it only made me reluctant to let them go even though I did.
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Ds isn't a joke, it's no supreme deterrent to tunneling anymore but it is not bad. Not saying it shouldn't be buffed so bot killers get punished but it's good.
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@Ayodam said:
I’d make it hinder the killer for X amount of seconds following the stun. You can keep the stun for 3 seconds or whatever but then the killer is hindered for 10 seconds after they’ve been stunned.
But then mobility killers moving at 200%+ will just ignore it. Just make is 5 seconds or even 6 seconds, plus disable power for 3-4 seconds too.
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I literally don't use alch ring but If I could just spawn it into my inventory to slug these people to death I would immediately. You like 0 game play? I guess I do too now. keep getting up, the other two can run out the gates.
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Yes, the giga buffed steroid junkie who has subdued supernatural beings is losing to a somewhat buff human male. Not so sure about that.
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@Rudjohns said:
It's funny how every single killer player doesn't like when the game starts and a gen pops in like 1 minute
But nobody talks about how a Nurse can use Lethal Pursuer to down a survivor in 30 seconds
Then people are forced to stay in the game? Give me a break
Literally everyone on both sides including nurse mains talk about this, I have no clue where you are pulling that second line from. Nurse is extremely problematic by design and all but nerfing her into the gutter will be for nothing. Everyone knows that. People that don't agree can have their opinions be considered null.
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@xEa said:
I never DC or kill myself on the hook. However, i can understand why they do it. Dead by Daylight became often times very frustrating for survivors, especially for solo players.
Instead of using all the available braincells on how to deny survivors the surrender option, why not puting the energy into making the game fun for survivors again? Mass suiciding survivors may be a strong indicator that the game is not fun for them anymore?
True but you do both. You remove the option and address the problems, it doesn't have to be one. There isn't a single valid reason survivors should get to nullify the penalty set for both sides.
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I play mostly survivor these days and my opinion that I initially stated is mostly from that pov. I don't have some killer sided biased around this argument. I don't care about bp, I just want a real game on both sides.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631589#Comment_3631589
This isn’t true. People cannot be made to participate in an *online video game*. They will find their way out, they will not suddenly become great contributors to the game. Did that even sound reasonable coming out of your mind?
Yep, I experience it quite literally daily in league! You can leave just feel free to taste the intended punishment for ruining that game single handedly.
edit: Best people can do is soft troll in league and even that will lead to repercussions quick. It's not even an opinion, it's literally fact, league forces people to play to a valid extent or not at all. That is just the truth, there is no argument to be had here. Run it down twice? 14 days. Leave the game twice? 14 days. Do it again? A month. Your stats reflect soft trolling while factoring in score + chat? 14 days.
I watch people tilted out of their mind in every way still farm and show up to fights at the very least. No one is sitting in base or leaving the game once out of 100 games.
So again, you can always leave, troll, give up or whatever else you can think of but be quickly prepared to be on a forced leave followed by probation.
In this 10 min long game the only thing so miserable is that your teamates can ruin it for you without punishment.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
And what will stop this survivor run to killer and die anyway?
If they want to leave, they will. There is no power will keep them in game.
This notion is just false. I'm tired of seeing the ol "you can't make people play the game"
If people can't freely leave the will eventually opt to try and play it out instead of just do nothing. I know it's the dbd community and there's nothing to expect from them as people but if they can't just get out instantly then they would just waste a bunch of time trying to go next. Any real person would continue forward.
League is the so called "most toxic player base" but You can't flame much and you can't leave at all. You would be surprised to know that I very rarely get people trolling because of that fact.
All these dbd vets are just making excuses about this subject.
Play the game, it's not so miserable that you need to leave when the average game lasts 10 min max. Even if you find it so miserable you need to leave the game there is essentially two free dcs a day.
There are so many options to stop this never ending cycle of tilt which is caused by the ability to dc for free on the survivor side. If in my first survivor game someone dcs another player will be mad, if it happens again they will follow suit to not waste their own time. All this system does is cause a self-perpetuating cycle of tilt which does far more damage than anyone here comprehends.
Whatis a lot harder to do is to make people be efficient. One person who refuses to help out on the survivor side means they lose and I really don't know what to do about that besides add a bp counter per min starting after 2 min into the game that you must adhere to. Remove bp from cleansing totems(not hexs) and opening chests, anyone who's not actively in chase will be on a timer to actually progress the game or get a penalty. Remove noed if you want so there is no argument against it, I don't care.
You can stop this non-sense. Unless you abuse it your self there is no reason to defend it. It can be dealt with and for the longevity and the playability of the game I hope these changes get implemented in someway at some point.
It's truly sad the devs or at least some who post on the forums believe they can't make a difference in this regard. A true pity.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631401#Comment_3631401
Sometimes the winning side is just better. But I like how Sava pretty much re-emphasized that certain (I guess ‘B or lower’) killers are only viable if survivors are really bad. Didn’t the best team in the world lose to a Skull Merchant though? 🤔
I don't remember typing that comment I'm really sick right now. Just ignore it
"All killers are only viable when survivors are bad enough to allow you to play them effectively."
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631109#Comment_3631109
Even with TS he is low B at best. Lockers exist and most survivors know to spam actions or sit on a Gen not to get mori'd.
They know, but catching one survivor out is insta win. You catch one and you have negated the effort of deleting 3 of one survivors health states. You know it's easy to catch even a good survivor out of position, they don't have the positioning.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
There are a lot of factors put into the strengths of each Killer, but one that's overlooked is the skill of the player. I've seen some arguments where someone will complain how bad a Killer is and become defensive when it's pointed out how decent the Killer actually is.
In the end, I think all Killers have an average of over 50% kill rate (or nearly all), which makes me feel they are all viable. Sure, there will be Trials where a Killer won't stand a chance, but that's as much to do with the abilities of the opponent as it is the power of the Killer. I've beaten strong 4 man swfs as Trapper and also been hammered by even stronger teams, but it's all subjective at the end of the day.
I do believe a Killer can be called "weak" compared with other Killers though - hence Tier lists. That's not a bad thing in my eyes though. It feels like a difficulty Tier.
The killers being differentiated by skill level and strength is fine. But you would have to live under a rock to not know blight is around twice as strong as trapper base kit wise.
All killers are only viable when survivors are bad enough to allow you to play them effectively.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631096#Comment_3631096
But that misses your point in your op. You said survivors are only complaining about A+ tier Killers, not D tier Killers.
Unless you think that Myers is A tier.
Myers is D tier unless tombstone. You know that obviously.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
Then you didn't see the "TS Myers needs to go" posts...
Oh I did. Ts myers does need to go.
Just because that terrible killers goes up 500%+ in power level due to an add-on doesn't mean it's ok.
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On survivor, being not below the threshold is a HUGE deal. There isn't a ton you can do even as a crazy survivor if the killer ignores you and gets rid of all the new people first.
On killer as someone who played mostly alch ring blight only until 6.1.0. for like 4 months prior, you have to play at specific times or be lucky to have any use for it. But when I do play killer I play past 12:00am because I mostly get matched with actually good survivors, people who know the game at all. I have 0 fun playing vs the typical survivors who are grouped up or not before that and if I did I just got lucky that I was chosen.
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@GeneralV said:
Unless trapper and freddy are actually op in their current state
Of course they are. Can a non-OP killer do what I just did:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XBXAZV82DD8S/image.png
4k on GoJ, clearly OP.
/s
All jokes aside, it is interesting how a discussion completely changes depending on which killer each participant mains.
I guess your fundamentals are just too strong.
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@Killing_Time said:
That's us exactly why we don't need nerfs to blight...
I mean alch ring is nice to deal with survivors doing this stuff but I wouldn't exactly say it's needed.
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When would the option to bleed yourself out pop up in your ideal world?
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Killers literally would rather kick a gen than get a free hit most of the time, they have conditioned themselves to do so. Make it 4 per single gen, something to discourage that less than a bot level of thinking.
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@BooomTetris said:
Removing hug tech means BHVR have to fix EVERY collusion on EVERY map. This would make Blight even stronger. The only frustrating thing about Blight, when he is sliding off something and go into fatigue.
- Either it was just a lie and it's not a bug, you've never heard anything else since. Everybody is just circle j*****g about Mandy's post. Idk if it's true or not, but LilithOmen said, that he asked McLean back then when he was a Dev about HugTech...and he said it was intended.
- It must be superhard to rework collusion.
- BHVR don't give a F.
It was originally intended until McLean could fix blights collision entirely.
Which I imagine is a rather large task.
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SoloQ is either a mmr issue or a playerbase issue. The average game is going to have someone throwing, even in 4 man swfs it happens consistently. If one person opens a chest, doesn't take chase once and does half a gen survivors just lose unless the killer got gapped by mmr. SoloQ isn't a survivor being under powered issue.
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@Xyvielia said:
0K = 2
1K = 6
2K = 2
3K = 9
4K = 11
When you look at the outcome of 30 matches, the 3Ks and 4Ks between the 2 players are still dominant.
It’s almost like theater or drama class was a prerequisite to playing DBD for most of the playerbase
What?
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I mean it's huge which is good for survivors and has many trash pallets which is good for killers. Essentially creating a bad loop for both sides. I'd bet the best way to play the map is to pre throw every pallet while teamates are split on gens.
Basically it's just bad ormond.
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Really I thought it was gone entirely.
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
As long as most M1 killers and other tier 1s continue to be underpowered, Nurse and Bright will continue to be tier 1.
Most of the underpowered killers lack the capacity to be buffed to A tier. Their kit simply doesn't allow for it.
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Because the 4% garbage is still a thing, still have yet to see valid defense for it's existence. It hurts survivors more than killer 95% of killers will take the free win.
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@Komi said:
I think its the fact you hard countered their build with one perk. As someone who's played Doctor against a 4man Calm Spirit team, I get it.
It's why I used to hate iron will, a single survivor perk countering a single killer perk. Distortion like that but for an entire class of killer perks.
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There isn't real counterplay to boons, especially old CoH. They put you between a rock and a hard place.
Do I go snuff the boon on the other side of the map with no gens, giving at least a gen worth of progress or do I continue staying on this side of the map in a battle of attrition that I will inevitably lose.
Even expo when used by a swf in end game does everything but get 4 people out. I have watched the most tense 15 min end game that would have been 5 had expo not been involved. But hurry go snuff expo so that they all get up and get out. Perks A tier at least, it just takes the right group of people and the right scenario to make it op just like UB.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626646#Comment_3626646
I just know for me... I very rarely play SWF. I'm either soloQ or killer. I wouldn't mind queueing up for the mode that makes me think my teammates are actually going to do what they're suppose to do rather than wasting time or DCing if they go down. Would be great if I could start a match knowing everyone has the goal of doing the objective and escaping. So yeah... sign me up for the "sweaty try hard mode" where all 5 players are going to stick around til they either die or the match is over.
Separate thought... maybe instead of a DC penalty timer, people who constantly DC just get matched with other people who constantly DC. Surely they all had legitimate emergency reasons and matches with 5 constant DCers will do just fine.
I wish a comp game mode could work, not because I so desperately want to sweat but just to know my teamates or my opponents are trying. I genuinely don't think it would last though, people aren't too good at the game and would eventually go back to norms to essentially smurf on people.
People really shouldn't associate sweating with trying to win. Atm survivors could freely cleanse 5 totems, open every chest and then meander around until their teamates were dead. The game struggles to work when grouping people with two completely different ideas of playing the game into one team. Survivors can lose out the gate because one person decides they aren't doing gens or trying to win and that feels just awful for every other teammate.
The last part you mentioned here only works if 4% is removed which it really should, dc penalties can stay where they are at I guess.
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I wouldn't worry about it too much as a new player, if someone's not dead by hook 5 that's fine to start out with. No need to be like me and 8 hook every game and only chase when after they are healed. Self handicapping that much as a new player will only hurt your fun early on.
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You address the systems people keep saying and do what you said.
Every other team based game doesn't allow this behavior like this game does, you can't justify it in games the 95% of the time end by 15 min(15 min being generous). The dc penalty is there if you gotta leave a couple times a day.
This game doesn't make you so miserable 2 min in the you need to leave, other games can make your life "hell" too.
All allowing people to leave freely does is create a self perpetuating cycle of bitterness. I think you guys would be surprised if people couldn't leave, how many of them would continue doing what they can in a game.
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When it comes to balance there are some things so obvious that most people can agree on them Ex: DH was far too strong, blight add-ons too broken and nurse has an inherently flawed design.
The issue is that some people aren't exactly looking for balance or simply don't understand the balance or are far too biased.
It takes people with a certain mindset that don't just favor one side to have objectively good consistent takes on the state of things in this game. A solid portion of players aren't actually that experienced with other competitive games which dbd is now.
You need to view both sides objectively without bias, have the right mind set, have a large understanding of the power level of everything in the game and also be able to view what is unhealthy for the game.
Tunneling should just be outright removed because majority of survivors find it frustrating and then balance around the power loss for the killer role. You can't just numbers buff a lot of the weaker killers because their design does not facilitate a higher power level. You could make clown bottles 30% stronger, he'd still be mid at best overall but just abysmal to play against.
A good chunk of people come into dbd with a horror mindset as well, that itself highly impacts the way they view the game.
The two sided nature of dbd also skews people opinions a lot. My first year of playing dbd was only on the killer side and I was for sure immensely biased about what I said. Most of those opinions were just obvious things like DH is so unfair, IW is far too good. But I also didn't like bt at all and that comes down to just not understanding the game enough and only one sided.
Anyway all of the most said things are generally true on this forum but anything that's not obvious is up in the air.
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The actual horror licenses are worth nothing, all of them are worth nothing gameplay wise and only serve to draw people in.
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@Krazzik said:
The proposed '3-gen solution' seems like it should genuinely nerf 3-genning killers while leaving 'normal' killers unaffected, but what about 3-gens caused by the survivors?
It seems like if survivors 3-gen themselves, it's no big deal anymore since they can just play it slow and defensive and burn through the killer's kicks.
This is exactly what many were worried about, as survivors 3-genning themselves and the killer capitalising on it was seen as fair. Now survivors can just do whatever gens they want and don't need to worry.
I refuse to believe any competent killer is damaging a single gen 8 times or more in a game, even on the lack luster killer's all your doing is bleeding your own time to make a potential play at that point.
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I mean your last paragraph is spot on, but just because the two devs who spend 5 months making 12 changes aren't great doesn't mean this game is better off being balanced.
The balance team is simply a 2.5 out of 10. Making assumptions based on that is wrong.
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Singularity isn't underwhelming, people are just bad in general while singularity focuses on the broader perspective: Macro.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Looking forward to testing these Blights and their Shenanigans. It was mildly easy before. I can only assume its easier now.
Man. You are either the best survivor in the world or you have yet to go against a .1% blight. I had though hug tech lover had given you a taste before his exodos.
You really haven't seen a good blight in the 1.5 years since I saw you post on the double speed blight post?
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Their map changes have been outright terrible for sure, seeing CW, AH and MM realms being downgraded over the last few years has been sad. Cold wind maps need a hit but that hard and the other two realms were literally perfect.
As far as I can tell the ormond changes are just outright buffs so I'm not sure why were talking about it. Ormond was already strong for survivors, even with the front and back of main building being weak. They are basically removing that weakness on a map where splitting on gens is easy and strong.
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wdym? His two add-ons are fine.